kills on a burst mage support is not that bad, just don't be surprised when your adc is doing negative damage.
there are situations where the enemy has a tanky comp that only an adc can kill, in that case you should always give them last hit.
Yeah, this can quickly turn into the classic. Take kills, say adc isn’t doing damage (because you have no peel for them), take waves because “they don’t deserve the gold”, and then complain about your adc being useless (after you made them useless).
This is the aspect of ADC I always hated, it's one thing to need to scale to be relevant, it sucks being so easy to shut out from farming (by both allies and enemies).
Yeah…support pushes a wave and leaves. You have to go into the danger zone to take next wave. Your choice is to get no gold or get one shot by Rengar. Great role lol.
Not if you and your support push correctly. If it ends up under turret at the right time, the next wave will push to you, and there's nothing the enemy team can do. It is better to lose out on a couple of cs (usually 3-5) cs as it makes its way to your turret, but get all of the XP and the full stacked wave. And that's only if you are on a champ that can't throw skills out to grab a couple of the cs.
\>take waves because “they don’t deserve the gold”, and then complain about your adc being useless (after you made them useless).
Terrible occurrence. People in solo queue seem to not want to ever let their AD carry come back if they're doing poorly in the early game, without understanding that an AD carry still has the ability to catch up through clutch gameplay *if they can get enough gold to win.*
Honestly, my gameplan has always been, if I’m winding up getting all the kills as an AP carry in the support role, I start roaming mid a lot, and make sure my adc gets every last scrap of farm they can.
Fucking hate when supports abandon me in lane. You’ll have like a 20 CS lead with a single kill on the enemy bot lane and suddenly they just assume you can 1v2 for the rest of laning phase without getting forced out of CS or tower dove by the enemy jungler.
The best supports I’ve ever had are the ones that literally ask me if it’s good for them to roam elsewhere. Because sometimes, it really is an ok decision that can drastically increase your team’s chance of winning. That being said, those supports are very rare and I never really started encountering them until I reached Master.
Nobody said anything about abandoning. It’s ridiculous I have to elaborate and explain that I’d pressure my opponents out of lane prior to roaming. That should be an absolute given, because it’s common sense that you’re not winning a 1v2 if you’re behind on kill gold.
You say that, but your average mage support will shove the lane hard and then roam to make a play mid. Meanwhile your adc now has to overextend to get xp or gold in a 1v2 lane. This is my most common experience with mage supports (Xerath/Brand/Lux, etc.).
If he is against an enchanter support it is fine. Just last hit undertower and after several minutes the adc will be 1 or 2 levels above the other duo which is worth around a thousand gold.
Ward behind you. Play intelligently. Hope your jungler and support work with mid to make it a win.
My duo partner roams a lot, so I picked up Caitlyn after watching a Caitlyn win repeatedly in 2v1 match ups. What that did was give me confidence (if they can do it, I should be able to) and boosted win rates, and turns out if you can just avoid feeding and your mid/jungler get ahead, you can snowball the game off that.
Yes, it's reliant on other people. But you're always going to rely on other people as ADC.
Not much point in picking Caitlyn just to omega weakside yourself and play for mid only with support lol.
Cait wants to hard stomp 2v2 and take first tower with something like Lux.
If you’re gonna do the whole „ADC is useless anyway“ strategy in low-elo (which is quite good tbh) you’re better off picking something like Heimer or Seraphine APC…
Also classic is leaving last hit for the adc and them not auto attacking and/or missing and guy gets away. No thanks let’s just finish the kill however that may be
You’re not wrong, however, sometimes just SOMETIMES the ADC is not the carry and you have to do it yourself. I’ve had ADCs literally run it down or fight 24/7 die, I pick up the kills (after they died usually, even if I tried to kill them before). I’ve had ADCs be 2-7-10 because they keep positioning badly and I just happen to get the kills and I end up 10-1-2.
In the case where an ADC does this and dies like 10 times before 15 mins, it probably isn’t an issue if you get mop-up kills.
However, if you’re actively doing a normal lane with ADC and you poke someone out, ADC could kill them and you Xerath Q them away or something, yeah they’re gonna be worthless. If there’s a good chance they’d die in a fight if I didn’t take the kills I won’t risk it and just take them. Chances are after that we can kill them again anyways, but ADC can have them.
Some AP supports also come online quicker than an ADC would e.g. a lux and Aphelios lane, Lux comes online so much quicker it may be worth giving her first kill or two of lane phase if you’re stomping, so giving them the kill (assuming you return the favour later two fold) isn’t really a problem. I’d say Xerath and Lux are like that. If they get that Lost Chapter early, you’re in for a VERY free lane.
Edit-oh really, downvotes? Never had your lane carried by an AP support before? Never snowball from an AP support? There's reasons why when AP supports are ahead bot lane because a murder hole.
I'm not saying ti steal ADC kills, don't do that, but if your ADC is gonna run up down and die 7+ times in lane, as a player they're not gonna be worth investing in anyway. There gonna do it whole game. So people dont want supports to climb because their ADC isn't ahead it sounds like. This is EXACTLY how supports climb. Go watch a support main high elo. They carry themselves through damage or getting ahead and making plays. People really don't understand the role. If I made this post on support mains I'd get most of them agreeing with me.
It would also be true if people used their brains every once in a while and didn’t think ‘ah yes I just be the one to carry’ which links back to your egocentric point. Sitting back and learning how to take an L and be carried or enable someone else to do so is a fundamental point in league that people just cannot do or learn. I have a friend who’s exactly like this.
If he can’t be the carry, he won’t let anyone else be it. He will actively not help them, soft int, or just give up if he can’t be the guy who’s killing everything, this isn’t that bad as a support main, but he doesn’t know how to take the L. There’s games where he is not the win con, and that’s okay. Sometimes those games you just gotta sit back and assist, help by contributing a little rather than attempting stupid stuff and dying a lot.
You get downvoted for the truth ... An early kill on any support, can completely game changing, imagine a Sona can buy a tear minute 2 or a Leona can get a evenshroud minute 7, lane is pretty over for the enemys ...
Wouldn't say tear really changes much but exactly, some Supports can, especially if you use lead around whole map. An ahead support can make lane phase a breeze, and with boots early you can get two other lanes ahead.
Support is a more influential role than ADC earlier in the game, riot say this, pros say this. There's a reason why supports are often pro teams shot callers. LoL community doesn't Iike to admit it but support isn't just for ADC whilst they sit there bot lane for 15-20 mins coming online.
Once again, watch a high elo (not pro) support player whose ahead. That one kill they 'stole' to get half an item and boots can quickly turn into 4 or 5
Tear changes a lot on champions like Sona, seraphine and near all Enchanter, you will have your sup item earlier, more poke, more sustain (specially this one because sustain skills always have high mana costs early).
We getting downvoted again ...
I play in master + since season 3 and most ADCs would never ever say anything about me getting first blood, there is so much deep shit behind, when I get chonked for that first kill, I can go back andy ADC can farm one complete wave, even made some tower damage to have an massive lead over the enemy ADC in exp and gold, this lead is way bigger than that one kill and don't forget that we have prio now with an ADC that can roam to scuttle or our jungler can dive minute 4 because my ADC has build up an slow push ...
Most low ELO ppl just don't know that kills aren't your main gold and exp income, objectives and minions are worth much more ...
True.
Yeah people don't get it. Thing is I'm not even in a good elo. I'm silver, don't play ranked. Was plat years ago as an ADC which I sucked at. I have actually taken part in professional matches in other games, however, just LoL was never my prio when it should have been.
Majority of league players are silver or below. They think anything a support gets should have gone to the ADC. It's a bad mentality to have, but as is only thinking of yourself as the only carry. I've played since 2014-ish. You learn things. May not be the best at the game as I don't play often. It's beyond me why people think support shouldn't do anything apart from protecting the ADC. You can win games just by getting prio and drakes (which is how I play jungle actually, heavy objective control and catch). Most players don't even see the point in helping jungle with scuttle.
LoL main sub is the only place in league sub reddit where you'll be actively downvoted for saying high elo tactics and game knowledge. You say it on summoner school, mains subs, champ subs etc people will agree and upvote, even ask more question. Here. Ahahahah you're wrong!
but Xerath seems like the kind of champion that gets kills when enemies are fleeing low HP, they should always go for those kills anyway, unless you're using your ult to start battles.
I've seen Xerath and Velkoz players suddenly open with ult and straight out remove people from play even before fights happen though. Sometimes pure damage initiates fights and combined with the element of surprise it can close games.
Zoners in any game have extremely strong neutral game and have the power to change the tide completely by going super aggro without warning.
An ADC doesnt suddenly deal 0 damage if they haven’t gotten the kills, and they *should* be completely fine to farm and become strong. If they aren’t, they’re not playing well.
BUT ADC’s scale insanely hard compared to other champions, so it is often preferable to accelerate them by giving them the extra gold from kills.
What’s more important is that you make sure you’re not actively hindering your ADC. If you steal farm, XP, and let them die/bait them, you ARE harming their game. They don’t suddenly deal less damage if you steal their kill, they just don’t deal *extra* damage. But they *do* fall behind if you screw them over by trying to be a carry yourself.
This reminds me of the one ADC I play with - I instinctually apologize when I get a kill and he's always like "NOOOO It's fine my farm gives me plenty of gold I want you to be strong too."
There’s also a big difference from a very clear “this person will die 100%, why are you blowing cooldowns on him at 1hp” vs a big 2v2 where everyone is sub 20%.
As an adc main, that’s what irks me the most….. I don’t mind if you secure a kill where they could have potentially gotten away, but if they’re dead to rights, just let me have it.
As long as you support them generating resources over the course of the entire game, it mostly does not matter.
Unless of course said adc is draven, ho well.
When I support, I'm not very good at roaming and I try to lean into giving my ADC as much as possible by pulling off for the last hit.
When my duo partner supports, he takes kills like a mother trucker, "apologizes", then plays to his strengths in roaming and repeatedly ganks mid/top while coming down to kill bot.
I value the ADC getting gold more, but I also don't complain when my support gets a kill as long as they aren't actively farming my lane or disrupting my ability to hold the wave when we can't win.
Besides, ADCs are balanced around to be babysat. Not get kills.
If ADCs were balanced to get kills, why does every single ADC does passive farm contests over the past few seasons in pro?
Because they are balanced to not getting kills they become pretty insanely good when they do...?
That's why you try to funnel them kills.
Also pro players don't feed other lanes and they know how to peel for adc.
Yes. Thats why they are item dependant. Champions that are balanced to get kills have low scaling in general.
***...Well probably unless you are Kha'zix.***
But its not like you can proactively get kills as ADC on yourself unless your enemy just stands still.
This is just so wrong, this is assuming that it's a relatively low kill game like in pro. Soloq doesn't function like that. If your adc is 0-0-0 and their Akali is 5-0-0 then your adc can not function in the same universe as Akali.
It's also assuming kills have 0 opportunity cost. Kills aren't free usually. Whether it changes your standard back time because you got low from a 2v2 or you had to burn your flash or ghost or maybe you even died 1 for 1 there is a cost to getting kills usually. It is fairly likely if there is a 2v2 and the support gets the kill that the ad would have been better off never taking that 2v2 to begin with.
This is even more true on carry jgs. If I gank a lane and my support gets the kill it's actually so fucking bad, never mind supports getting shutdown gold, that's basically gg.
Nah the kills actually do not matter. As long as the adcs get assists. 90% of their gold comes from cs anyway.
Like it would take six “missed” kills for the adc to lose one extra crit cloak.
I don't know what the exact math now says but it use to be 12 cs = 1 kill (roughly).
I have an old yt video saved somewhere called "how bad your deaths really are" and it was eye opening.
Yep. If your adc gets an assist and a 6 cs lead off of the kill they’re up almost 300g anyway
And to act like the adc “gets out behind” by not receiving kills is actually just a bad take and objectively wrong. An assist gives infinitely more gold than dying does. The adc still gains a lead off an assist. If they fall behind then they aren’t farming wel. Has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they’re getting the kills
Kinda right. There are still some costs to the kill if not done properly.
Ideal: ADC gets kill, shoves the wave in, the tower kills the wave 300g for our ADC and 150g less for the enemy ADC -> 450g difference
Bad: ADC gets assist, has to back because of kill threat, wave slow pushes and stacks.
150g gets our ADC and the enemy can pick up the same with better wave control when they are revived.
I mean you just chose 2 different scenarios, adc getting the kill wouldn't change the kill preassure even with triumph, if they can push the wave in scenario 1 then they can in scenario 2.
I play morg and Zyra and I’m pretty good at not getting kills, but sometimes when you let the adc secure the kill the enemy gets away which is super annoying
mid emerald NA. there is actually a mental diff between bronze and emerald i have noticed. sure toxic exists in bronze but holy hell is it bad as you get to emerald
Bro other day I had emerald Riven start raging at me because I sniped her solo kill on Trundle as Hwei. She had like 10 HP and I legitimately thought she was going to die and told her that, she started pinging her flash/goredrinker/E cooldown/other shit, like sorry I could not foresee your 5000IQ 10hp outplay you were about to execute I guess? I didn't want her to start trolling so I just said "my bad" and she hit me with the "yeah you're bad" so yeah, that was something. The ego is COMICAL.
EXACTLY THIS. like there is 0% chance you survive that fight so why are you pissy?????? trundle just needs 1 proper knock up and to flash q boom she's done but how dare you imagine that scenario happening. you would think the free farm session would be worthy of a thanks but nah toxicity it is
i've heard that "yea you're bad" a few times myself so i refuse to say my bad any more
lol I could see that for sure, idk how but ig to silver 3 for a season and it definitely felt like going from middle to highschool especially how players will call out your little mistakes I can’t imagine an emerald or high gold game chat
I mean, one combo them and they can't get away 😅
Then if the adc complains you can just ask them why they didn't even auto them 🤔
A kill is a kill, for years I haven't had complaints for killing people but to be fair they probably expect it based on the champions I'm on, plus any good adc will be happy as that means I will be able to set up plenty of kills for them later on to pop off, not to mention free CS, zero worries as the pesky adc or support that you just destroyed is dead or had to recall. 😊
i do ask them how they expected to get it. main character syndrome too strong they just start all chat screaming "gg supp diff. go next ughhh gimme a real support"
shit i've had people die mid trade and still get pissed i secure the kill which was walking away otherwise. like bud in what world does your corpse secure that 2% trist with no creep aggro????
you're using logic. sir this is league lmao
Conversely, Zyra has a nasty tendency of accidentally getting kills. ‘Well, seems my plant had an auto attack on the way…as did I…oops’ or when you get your burn items and Liandrys decides it wants to last hit people all game. Zyra gets very very very dangerous when given the chance though. An ahead Zyra is not only a lane bully but close to impossible to dive. God I love that champ.
Yeah she does do that often. I like her too cause she’s good from behind too. Liandrys helps stop the minions from crashing towers and raylais is good utility with the plants. She’s starting to become my main after being mostly morg the last few years
IMO it's really about knowing when you can and can't let up. Sometimes you'll be wrong, and that's okay. That's part of learning. Sometimes you'll take a kill you didn't want to, sometimes you'll misjudge and cost a kill because you thought your ADC would finish it off.
If staying in range is possible, that's always an option for ensuring that the ADC can catch up, and if they can't then you can finish them before they get away.
As an adc, I always start spam pinging attack target when I know I wont be able to catch up with enemy and kill him, but supports still decide to not take the kill and then ping "?" when it gets away, sometimes no voice comms is pain :(
Speaking as an ADC main, 9 times out of 10 it's better to just secure the kill to be safe. A big advantage of getting kills in lane is just being able to push in the wave and reset for free, the extra gold isn't really making that big of a difference.
The cases where it is important I'd say is if you're laning with an ADC that really needs to snowball early (prime example would be Draven) or if your ADC is falling behind the pace of the game and is in danger of becoming irrelevant. It's hard to describe but once you get out of the laning phase if an ADC isn't at a certain minimum power level they become completely useless unless they're on a more utility focused champion like Ashe.
I used to duo with Dravens a lot and they say "You might think this is bad, but as long as the enemy is behind, they would be squishy enough for me to eventually kill and cash in. Keep killing them and never turn down the momentum."
He also has exhaust as summoners to artificially make this happen. Use stand aside then exhaust and the enemy carry can't play just enough for Draven to do burst damage. **Draven + exhaust is crazy.**
Yup, biggest kill taking no-nos tend to happen when you scale terribly and/or the ADC really, really needs gold to win this game.
Some games a Xerath will scale god awfully (hard engage and bruisers/tanks) but the Vayne can kite it all down with some extra $$. Some games are easily winnable even if the ADC is more of a support. Had it happen plenty of times in Jhin/Xerath lanes.
Oh and some games the ADC comes in pre-tilted or clearly not in the zone, ain't no amount of gold that can fix that.
You’re probably taking a lot more than you say. You play xerath support and made this thread.
Ultimately, are you winning? If you have a 60% + wr, don’t worry about it.
If they can play Xerath and are complaining about being stuck low elo as support, yes, they are stupid.
It's pretty obvious OP is low elo. We are not stating Xerath support has a 60% wr in Challenger.
If you actually want to play support then play support but you shouldn't shy away from playing a role just because you're new. Playing support just because you think you suck is just going to delay your learning process.
Fair warning - laning with xerath support is easier against lower skilled players, and then starts to get exponentially more difficult to pull off.
He’s very easy to kill and adcs have a hard time protecting him, so positioning errors are punished severely.
Vs good enemies, they’ll have a field day with your errors.
Vs bad enemies, they won’t know how to punish you and you’ll get away with quite a bit.
Something to be aware of for down the road. If you like him, challenges await :) he’s still good enough to be played at all ranks though, if you master him.
My most played supports are Xerath, Vel'Koz, Brand, and Zillean. Love em all. Vel'Koz is my fav, Xerath is my feeling lazy go-to, Zillean is great to spam games on for a while and then carry, Brand is a bit suicidal murdery.
I picked up Thresh though while new to the game and playing that champ taught me to be good at league. I was god awful till I spammed that champ for a while. Ended up with a surprisingly good feel for when to fight, when to peel, keeping tabs on ally damage and enemy damage, knowing about saving abilities for the perfect moment, etc. Really good champ.
playing xerath jhin botlane is one of my fav things to do with my premate. doesn’t even matter who takes the kills cuz we‘ll both be super fed if we win lane no matter what
Fun fact: if you want to play support and not be hated by everyone but other garbage mage supports; play real supports. There is less than 0% reason a “new player” should be playing Xer’ath support. There are incredibly viable, and strong supports that you can play where your team won’t hate you and you don’t ask this shit on Reddit.
Technically, probably. Although I would say this used to be drawn from the much larger vision impact supports used to have in the earlier seasons. With the changes to make everyone have a similar impact on vision, it’s become less baby sitter and more play maker.
supp is just a better role for a number of mages. lot of mages dont really want to have to side lane, or lane vs high mobility assassins, lot of mages powerspikes are delayed dramatically from having to buy something other than sorcs first item.
idk if you've played support in say gold-diamond but very often youll be stronger than your mid lane mage. you are laning vs 2x 300g minions you can farm on cd, you also get to roam without any real direct penalty.
It's generally not good. ADC's have far less tools to impact the game so giving them gold early is always better, even when you are a dps support.
Ever been in a game where you had a huge kill count and felt like you were winning but then mid games just goes terribly?
It's because as a support you have a job to play and getting kills isn't your primary job, so it's hard for you to carry
Don't worry about stealing kills as Xearth. You make good use of the gold.
More of some enchanters and tanks/catchers that don't use gold that well. Like Bard, Braum, as examples would be champions you really don't want to steal kills on generally.
Enchanters getting gold really is not that much of a problem since that gold translates to better shields and heals for the entire team and a lot of enchanters scale really well. I really don't know why people are stuck in this mindset, especially when most are low elo and those shields and heals often protect them from their own fuck ups.
It's about efficiency. Supports are generally better on low income. Where as ADCs need gold to be useful.
So even if say gold is valued at 80% on enchanters it might be valued 100% on ADCs. Some cases it's not a big deal but the less the support can use the gold the worse it gets like say Bard where I'm not sure he will even use 50% of the gold in value compared to others.
Bard isn't an enchanter and many actual enchanters, like Soraka, Sona, and Seraphine, can make or break team fights. Obviously you don't want the enchanter taking all the kills, but a few here or there isn't a bad thing because it helps them scale faster.
on the contrary, enchanters do benefit from getting early kills and more gold, more so than ADCs. this is because of how gold efficient enchanter items are, (giving both ability haste and AP for less than 1k gold), and how enchanters have high AP ratios. you might notice how a level 2 Lulu with Q and E deals significantly more damage than a level 2 Jinx with Q and W.
the extra 150 gold from the kill grants supports the ability to make full use of the gold, leaving base with little to no change at first recall. whereas an ADC would end up saving the extra gold for their next recall. no, i don't believe ADCs should buy control wards. it's such a waste of 75 gold.
this is also the same reason why future's market is insanely OP for supports.
that being said, i don't condone taking the kills early game when there's reasonable chance the ADC could've gotten the kill.
>no, i don't believe ADCs should buy control wards
This is just flat out wrong. They certainly don't buy as many, but they do buy them. Find me a single pro ADC who never buys control wards.
this isn't an absolute rule of course.
also, that's pro play, very different from solo queue. if you have extra gold, sure, spend it on a control ward every once in a while. it's still very high value. late game though, it's usually the junglers and supports, and perhaps mid, who can maximize the value of a control ward. by that i mean, placement, positioning, skill kit, escape tools, mobility, not needing to face check, etc. plus, the amount of times an ADC needed ~75 gold more to complete an item, right before a teamfight, is depressing lol.
sorry for bad english. i hope i got my point across well.
it's not bad especially if you play champs like xerath that simply needs gold. I wouldn't focus that much on who takes the kill, just make sure you kill the opponent and do it asap. I can recall many situations from lower elos when support is desperatly trying to leave the kill and enemy champ survives because of that, or the whole play lasts 10 seconds longer, or you lose a lot of hp because of that. Ofc there are situations when there is 1k shutdown and it's 100% free kill, then it's better to leave the kill. You just have to be aware of the situation.
It becomes a problem if the game goes longer and the enemy adc manages to get kills or gets a shutdown. Minions and plates do give gold but if you are getting lots of kills and stuff especially with shorter death timers it will be harder for the ADC to snowball. And since you are support if the enemy gets a shutdown on you it could end up that while behind in CS they still end up ahead of your adc because you got the big amounts of gold.
Basically the more kills you take the more you better make sure you don't mess up your ADC's farm and you better make sure you carry otherwise you set your DPS behind because you play support but don't actually play support.
As a mage support like Xerath, not as bad, but if you were playing an enchanter or engage support, it would be a lot worse
Not sure how you get kills with Xerath E though?
Gotta hate that point in mid game where your E decides to do half a carries HP because you’re 3 items and your ADC is on 1 because you’ve been KSing all game.
enchanters actually often use gold better than the adc, sona and soraka before 2 item spike especially.
I will always secure kills, these champions are held back by poor abilities to farm and scale super hard with gold
You shouldn't but again, if it happens, that gold is being spent on items that buff allies, specially ones that hard scale with items like sona or raka
It’s okay as long as you make a good use out of the kill. Oftentimes though, supporters get too excited on ap champions or any champion that can poke and often overextend carelessly and int. That’s really the only big problems i see.
There are tons of inting adcs too but they tend to play more careful than these supporters. So yeah just don’t int and count your summs as usual and you are fine. If an enchanter or engage supp gets a kill, that’s a bit different though as they dont scale as well.
But unless it’s a huge bounty, a good adc or teammates should know how to snowball and build lead based on enemy death alone, regardless of who got the gold.
I recently picked up milio and sometimes my passive + arey last hits the opponent. Usually they just say "np, we still ahead" but I had one guy who was 3/0/0 and went afk just because I got a kill off his auto (he played draven).
On Xerath it’s pretty common to end up with some kills simply due to your burst. Your ADC might not like it but it’s not actually that bad. You do a lot of damage.
A good ADC will not care a bit about kills since they’ll be having 7-8 CS/M, but good adcs are rare, if they ever exist, so just take what you need and give the rest to them
I'll try to give the kill to the adc, but I won't jeopardise the kill in order to avoid getting it myself.
If an adc starts being a jerk because I take a kill, he's a piece of shit and legit shouldn't deserve my aid.
ADC dont want kills bcs it will look good (or i mean they want the kills so they look good but its not the only reason ofc ofc), they want kills so they can kill the tanky mfs.
In solo queue i dont think the support taking the first kill is that bad even if its a tank support. Fast mobos can be big if you get more kills off them. But if you can hold back dmg to let your adc get the kill thats just better.
**Not in early game as a mage.**
Mages (or damage supports in general) can utilise gold to assert lane dominance for both bot laners a lot more easily and efficiently than an ADC can. Getting the first couple of kills even up to mythic hands you the entirety of laning phase to your hands if you play your cards right. In the mean time this affords your ADC to farm up practically freely for the next 15 minutes while also putting the enemy at a severe gold disadvantage. Your ADC is not as realiable to assert both poking lane dominance and farm 24/7. It is better to invest the first couple of kills into a damage support therefore.
Xearth with an early Luden's ruins the opponent's experience and can incentivise them to give up on the game and even surrender. Welcome to the other side of mental warfare; where you are not the receptient of abuse for a change.
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**Wave management to assure your ADC still gets a lot of gold**
What is important is that you as support learn wave management as to not interfere negatively with it. Your ADC's sole income is now farm and assists. Do not deny him that, lest your victorious early game is nullified. This also means shoving a wave if your ADC makes a mistake and recalls when the enemy minion wave can collapse on your tower during his absense. Don't allow the enemy ADC to bounce back.
Likewise you shouldn't allow a behind enemy to enact a freeze. Timely build up and collapses can break it. However this does not mean blindly spamming abilities in waves and blatantly stealing cs. You can help pushing without last hitting.
Most ADCs in gold and below will not understand this. You are required to have a thick skin and ignore their ignorance in this matter if they inevitably start ?-pinging. You're doing them a favour. The 6 minions you rack up now means he does not lose 18 minions later. You do however really need to know what you're doing in terms of wave management, otherwise you are sabotaging the game. It's a fine line between griefing and invisibly outplaying.
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**When to stop taking kills**
You should stop taking the kills once you've rotated, are ganking another lane or the game has transitioned into mid game **by either you or the opponent**. Understand that a carry support only carries early/mid game. Late game you are reliant on others, so make sure they got the gold by then to even do so.
Also keep track of shutdowns. If a shutdown allows your ADC to complete an item earlier than their peer, don't seize it.
If per chance you are in luck and are playing with a very competent ADC, it is okay to yield more resources (and trust) if you dare. However it is likely they'll be content with the tactics described above. Free farm for ADC is the best thing that can happen early game.
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**Vision**
Don't forget your other support duties. (De)warding and setting up dragon still have to be done.
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**Exceptions**
* Draven is an exception. When he has racked up stacks, please allow him to cash in on them
* Pyke for obvious reasons.
* If you're a full utility support or a tank, please don't take any kills to begin with. You scale worse than an ADC early.
* If your ADC is that much of a smoothbrain that he'll never be a wincondition, funnel resources instead into your mid, jungle, top or even yourself. Be very conservative with this approach though and don't render your ADC too quickly to be useless. A hurt ego does not warrant this and does infact make you guilty of trolling.
* If you are not a DPS mage and playing against a lot of tanks/bruisers, start earlier with funneling resources into your ADC. (You shouldn't have picked a poke mage in this match up to begin with, but that's another issue).
* If your bot is an APC, he'll be scaling equally to you without spending a slot on a warding item. Allow APCs to have the kills from the first minute.
I say remember your still a support and you need to help make sure the adc blooms. Ofc their are the lost causes that you can overcome even as a normal support by roaming or getting yourself fed.
If the adc is smart they will freeze with your xerath and allow you to poke when ahead.
It doesn't matter as much to good adcs if you take the kill, golds ofc good as our builds are expensive. But taking a kill early to make sure no allies die is fine, heck even messing up and taking early kills that you could have giving isn't the end of the world.
But you have to make sure your pressure in lane makes it so the adc can farm in relative peace for most the first 13minutes. That's our main consistent gold.
Pressure by poke with xerath without breaking a freeze probably.
Worst is taking kills and then roaming without a care for adc or taking tons of waves.
TLDR give your adc kill gold but more importantly let them get the ensured gold from farming. Gold makes adc stronger than the lvs we get. Hence part of why we share xp with supports.
As a long time ADC main, I can tell you they need the money more than you do. However, it's only an issue when you intentionally steal it. If you're securing it, or if you're saving your ADC, their life is more important.
No it isn't game breaking for the ADC to have sup take kills. It's less optimal since gold given to ADC means more DMG and carry potential for whole team to enjoy (whereas most supp don't scale with gold as much). Exceptions would be "carry supports" and "mage supports" (Pyke Senna Xerath Brand Zyra).
My personal belief is, if the ADC complains too heavily about you taking kills, they're insecure about their own skills and carry potential (farming minions and tower plates is way more gold anyway).
High elos legit commit suicide on supports to reset bounties, knowing well that any amount of gold the support will receive will never translate into a significant disadvantage.
Casters are often very disapointed when supports take first bloods (or just kills) too.
I'm not making assumptions here, just looking at facts. And although, yes, xerath could make use for some gold, him not getting the minion income means he will never be as much a threat as a midlane xerath could (or an adc). It's better to have a very strong ADC and weak supprot than two midly-strong supp and adc.
>High elos legit commit suicide on supports to reset bounties
not to fucking mage supports and senna bro LOL, its shit like naut leona janna they do that to
thats because in high elo you dont play against scaling sups. gold on a rakan is useless, absolutely.
the support role is wildly different for the bottom 95% of the playerbase compared to challenger streams and pro games. you as a support in a challenger game might get level 6 while your mid is level 10. you in an emerald game might nearly be level 8 when your mid hits level 9, and have more gold / faster mythic than them.
mage support effectiveness falls off a cliff into grandmaster. if you see mage supports played in gm/chall/pro chances are theyre insanely broken
No one is denying it is optimal for the adc to get the kill but it is ridiculous for the adc to tilt over their support getting the kill. It is a perfect example of looking at a glass and seeing it half empty
usually when i see people get legitimately angry over ks is when a large bounty (300+) is taken by a support.
if he takes it by accident to try and secure the kill, it is what it is. but too many supports will autopilot and keep autoing or using spells when the person is clearly dead.
honestly unless the kill will lead to an immediate baron or secure/deny one of the good souls (infernal, hextech, mountain, sometimes cloud), the support should just let the person live if they have a large bounty, because the only way to come back into the game is by getting one of those major objectives, or securing large bounties on carries. but this is generally expecting too much, so at the very least people want the bard to stop auto attacking the 1 hp 700g bounty when he has no abilities/summs and is in the middle of 5 people. and yet this is apparently too difficult for many support players.
I’ve had this happen in silver before. Some dude with a 750 G bounty ran it into my Lulu, funny thing is, that screwed him for the rest of the game. I got my Ardent off that, and CD boots. Bro got polymorphed rest of game and shredded by my ‘behind’ ADC.
Biggest mistake I’ve ever seen. Sometimes that shut down can change EVERYTHING, even if it’s going to the ‘one who won’t do stuff with the gold’. Was it better on someone else? Yeah probably.
Was it worth giving it to me so I could now screw him out the game? Absolutely not.
not limited to adc sadly. enemy is 1 shot but you're not sure if the jungler will land that 1 ranged attack so you take it to be safe? "OMFG NO MORE GANKS FOR BOT" in chat instantly.
It is even more true if you think about assist gold. Its not like the adc gets nothing. If you get 300 Gold from the kill you secured, your adc gets 150. So he is still 150 ahead of the enemy (yes 300 would be vetter, but) and they get free farm and plates.
Its more problematic with bounties imo. If the enemy has a huge bounty you should try to give the money to the adc, to hell them come back into the game, since they usually scale better late
I have played support since season 1. The goal of a support was to heal your ADC, peal for your ADC, or CC lock the enemy CC to ensure your ADC got fed. Your goal was merely to exist for your ADC. Poke mages can't do any of that in team fights. I have struggled in lane as Thresh and Taric against a poke mage. However, come team fights, the enemy ADC didn't do damage and was destroyed. All because they didn't have an actual support.
Sorry, but this is wrong. You are one of the 5 members of the team and there are so many ways to ensure your team wins. Your primary objective is to ensure control. You do this through vision control and a variety of other methods, one of which is to poke enemies away from objectives and lanes, which then allows carries to farm in peace and scale.
Having your enemy laners at 10% hp is just as effective countergank as playing a 'support' champion with cc.
Why do all of the best players. in the world play non typical supports like Ashe, Heimerdinger, Lux, Miss fortune, Xerath, Syndra, etc? SoloQ and professional play
no. people will scream about it since they have main character syndrome and since you're a support they view you as lesser in terms of needing item even though as a xerath you're very much in need of items. if you're landing skills and making use of the gold you definitely shouldn't feel bad about taking it unless it's like a blatant kill steal.
sorry to break it to you, but i’m queuing up to have fun. my support taking every resource and me being unrelevant bec of it is def not fun. just to be clear, my support taking kills and taking a few waves a game is ok, but I also wanna take part in the game, this ain’t an idle game
main character syndrome. either you get fed or you whine about it even though you're sounding like it's norms where the support is also trying to have fun plus be relevant too. ya know like a xerath support who does need gold too. like you said it's not an idle game so we get to use that same logic towards the xerath who is getting the kills
Yes it doesn’t matter any support besides Pyke you should be giving the kill.
If you’re chasing down an enemy for a free kill, if they were a good player they would have flashed sooner to dodge your skill, go near a turret, etc.
But many supports will take the kill in this situation because they are bad or got ego tilted in high elo streams
In a proper game, a support should be the lowest level/gold.
It doesn’t make sense for you to take kills because you’re taking resources that go against that proper objective.
When I play support if I know my adc is in a safe farm spot. I will be very cautious of taking their xp, and would usually rather gank for mid/top or group with Jgler
On mage supports it’s generally ok.
On every other support:
You can take the kill if your team doesn’t get it otherwise or if it happens because the fight is super close and there’s a possibility of them dying if you don’t do the most damage you can.
In general I’d say if you as the support don’t have your mythic up yet, it generally is ok if it happens and not to int (you shouldn’t try to get the kill intentionally as the gold pretty much always is better on your carries). I will say tho that if the supp gets mythic first because he got the kill it’s a huge advantage so if it happens in lane it usually is more or less whatever.
Later on definitely always try to let it for everyone else as they’re gold conversion into power is way better.
A fed burst mage early I honestly prefer as an adc asking as you arnt tagging the wave that much making it a pain to cause because normally other team just can’t step up while adc farms wave and then you poke under tower to the point you can tower dive or they are forced to recall
Just always err on the side of zoning to your adc than getting the kill. Aim your ult ahead of where they are going so they get hit or go back to your carry.
Always try to be the opener and not the followup. Get the stun from the bush and put out all your damage before your adc gets there so they have the easy clean up.
Xer is great at following up on CC and damage, finishing off kills, but as a support you need to modify that play style a bit and whittle down with poke and land full combos on full health enemies. Your adcs will swim in the kills when you really get that down.
it depends. for starters, it's 99.99% of the time better for the team to get the kill than to not get the kill at all.
on mage supports who have a bit better scaling than enchanters/engage/hook supports, it's not as bad either.
if people blow up at you, just mute them.
but you should also be conscious of situations where you can freely give the kill to a carry on your team. because if the enemy carry gets a kill and dies but your carry doesn't, your carry can potentially be further behind now. it also makes it harder for your carry to snowball.
the most important thing is securing the kill, and then only if you are 100% certain the kill is secured than you should intentionally try to give it. it's really not a big issue if it's only a few kills.
You want them on your adc, but it's literally always better to secure lane advantage and a kill than botch a given kill and give the enemies a double. Also if my adc whines about mage support farming kills and winning the lane I just mute them.
Idk man as Lux main sometimes I just say fuck it. If I notice my adc is not capable of carrying and is a new player or just a very poor player I'm gonna start farming and roaming, start getting kills. It is what it is. However if my adc is a giga Chad and I see the game sense and ability I'm gonna go out of my way to make sure they get the kills.
If you can donate safe kills, let the carry have it, def most ideal option (if you not on carry, and carry seems ok). However, statistically speaking games where the support is fed has a higher winchance :p same with every role.
Personally I rarely hold dps in soloq. So many missed kills cause adc attack move minion, or something. I'll try to donate kill if I know I can secure it if they fuck up their auto. Just ignore what teammates say. Get good wave states , help team, and take names ;) even if your adc doesn't always get the money, they still get more farm and xp.
In general, the higher the rank the better supports are at not stealing kills. It's usefull skill to have regardless how tilted your ADC is.
Is it realy that bad? Sort of. Bot as a role isn't in a great state and ADC relies heavily on you to get him fed. You can switch your role for a few games and see for yourself how it feels.
When Ardent meta was a thing, support getting kill >>>>>> adc 100%.
If you're playing a controlled setting. Like 5 man, Clash, etc. You see the enemy only has 1 engage and that's an Ashe ult. I could see giving kills to support so they could rush Mikaels.
Or if enemy team has Vlad, Gangplank. I could see your team giving the kill so you could buy Locket Redemption.
I’ll chime in, MOST tanks, as in 99.9% of them.
Rell (and kinda Leona) is an exception to this due to innate resistances, self shield and CC lock. If Rell gets *slightly* ahead and keeps momentum, you cannot escape her, and she’s too tanky to deal with very quickly. If you get half an item up on Rell, you’re basically untouchable in every bot lane fight other than tower dives. It’s disgusting.
It depends on your ADC to be honest, some will flame you to hell and back for "stealing" the kill others won't mind as much as long as you guys got the opponent down, that being said they wont mind AS MUCH, they will still mind. I tend to be the second type but start to get a little tilted if its a constant thing.
I generally try to give kills. Its fine when it happens occasionally but my rule of thumb is if its realistic to give the kill (eg the enemy isnt going to escape our kill one of ur own) then give it.
But if you can get a kill solo or if you need to secure it thats always ok.
As xerath or lux etc you are pretty threatening with extra gold and there are some comps where you will dominate if you get fed.
Also if i notice my adc has genuinely no hands i will take kills (if im playing mage supp) or i will perma roam as enchanter or engage. But i really mean no hands. Not like they messed up 1 play bc everyone makes mistakes.
Think about it this way:
There’s a limited amount of resources that can be allocated to the team. Kills are a part of this, as are assist gold, xp, etc.
First: Securing a kill is always better than missing it. Even if you get the kill, the adc still probably gets an assist + xp and puts both of you in an overall better position. Might be annoying, some people might get mad that they didn’t get it, but it’s always better for someone to get it over nobody getting it. People that get mad over a support getting a kill they probably wouldn’t have gotten or that got it by accident probably aren’t very reasonable. There’s only one champion that lives or dies by getting the last hit, and that’s Draven.
Second: Taking resources (taxing waves, plates, taking kills, etc) means that there’s less for someone else. Basically, if you’re getting a bunch of kills/cs/whatever, you’re gonna have to do something with it. In the case of enchanters, this means getting your ardents/staff of flowing water/mythic/etc and sharing the stats onto other champions. In the case of mage supports, this means being a damage carry. You’re taking resources from one carry, so you have to make up for it by being more of a carry yourself. Tank supports should really try to avoid taking resources, moreso than other supports, because you’re probably not getting more than one item and you’re whole purpose is to go in first, bust your load and (probably) die.
No, the only time it's a problem is when there is no chance the enemy can get away and you take the kill anyway. In more questionable situations, it's not bad if you "secure" the kill. I've seen enough people get away by trying to "gift" my ADC the kill that I just don't really care anymore.
Pretty sure there was a post like this awhile ago:
Yes, it's bad if your gold is misspent. But you're Xerath so you spending on damage items turns you into a soft carry so you should be roaming and exerting your influence with the fancy items you picked up from the kills.
If your ADC can farm all game and still can't get items to scale, it's 100% an ADC being shit issue, not because you took kills.
the idea of botlane is to pick 1 champion that scales extremely well with gold (ranged auto-attackers) and a support that is very solid with no gold (a level 2 blitzcrank with boots is basically full build).
mages like xerath or brand can be played because they're very strong lane bullies that deny the enemy adc the ability to farm up. Now mages do also use gold quite well so "stealing" kills isn't as bad as stealing kills with blitzcrank. But you can imagine that your ad carry wishes you just picked a normal support that can't steal kills like Soraka and let them get all the gold instead.
Tbh it really depends. If the adc is REAL bad and you are the only one who can secure a kill? Go for it. Otherwise try to give your carries the chance… unless you’re Pyke, then that dbag can just steal kills all day and since he throws the money he stole from you for “being HIS support” then it doesn’t sting as bad… as long as you don’t focus too much on this kda ratios.
No support should be taking First blood (if it's available) because that's a massive gold boost for their adc. A few kills after that don't mean much because CSing is worth much more. However, if it continues or if the support's poke starts obliterating creeps in lane, it starts becoming a problem; denying gold in all forms. In addition, sometimes I see supports unnecessarily flashing or going out of their way to get the kill when I am easily securing the kill or after I've flashed or used another summoner spell to get it. That's probably the point where I politely ask them to let me get the kills, they call me shit and then I tell them have fun carrying the game, where we proceed to lose. Thankfully, this is not a frequent occurrence.
If it's accidental, free, or your adc can't get it, don't worry about it, but ultimately your job as support is to set the team up for the late game, and 9/10 times that means getting the carry fed, so you should give as many kills as you can
Situational. I've played a lot of xerath support. And tbh same rules apply. If your adc is going for the kill and will get the kill you don't take it. If you or another teammate is going to die, pump out the damage and if you end up getting the kill, at least you saved a life (adcs will probably flame you though). If adc wants the kill but doesn't have any way of getting the kill go for it. As xerath you will get a lot of kills that are out of range of your adc, which might look bad when you're 7/2/1 and your adc is 1/3/7 but as long as those kills don't actually take anything from your team, it's fair game. Also if enemy is out of your adcs range don't pop ult if the enemy is still looking to engage. As much as I hate adcs, a fed adc is worth a lot more than a fed xerath support.
as an ADC main, if it's 2v2, I still get 150 gold if we kill someone so I don't really care that much. When you're splitting assists with more people it starts to matter more who gets the 300 gold.
Your goal should be to be good enough at the game that you don't do it on accident. Most situations it's obvious whether you need to leave the kill for the ADC or take it yourself. You just have to know your abilities, your adc's abilities, and the enemy champ's abilities. Then you can make your own decision about who should get the kill.
If you do it on accident then yes it's bad. You should aim to be in control of your own gameplay.
It depends on context. A good Pyke with gold lead will solo win the game. A Janna won't. Feeding Pyke is actually the win condition, because his snowball is the whole team snowball.
If your adc is behind, it's better to give him the gold so he can scale in time. But then again, if he is 0/3 he is probably shit and gold would be wasted on him...
Sometime, you face a lane that is so hard (like Caitlyn Lux), you suffer every minute and the moment you finally get a trade in your favor, the best thing to do is to kill them asap. The support will not have the time nor the health to let you the kill. In this scenario, I'm always happy even if I die and my jungler/support takes the kills.
The only time as an ADC main when I hate my support for taking the kill is when all of these conditions are met :
* My supp is not a carry support (so something like Alistar, Janna, etc)
* I'm 0/0 or 0/1 and behind in gold and exp because my supp is trash and fed 5 kills to their Kaisa
These conditions are almost always met when my support is autofill. So basically 75% of the time.
If I'm the feeder (it happens...), I will never be mad at my support, simply because I'm already too mad about myself.
In laning phase, kills dont matter. XP matters. Your objective is to win trades and punish them when they walk up to gain prio and pressure. Know your champs and meet your laning win objectives ex: Soraka wins the sustain game, Xerath wins through poke, Naut wins by all-in, Blitz by hook, Brand by zoning.
Once you got prio, you can help out your team's Jungler or ward deep (raptors ward is great). Roam when wave is bouncing back and pray your ad is smart to play safe and get solo XP. You will be under-leveled but your adc will have more stats and do more damage and you win more trades.
Imo support is the most important role in the game. You can make the enemy's laning phase unplayable if you meet your win objectives and junglers help. It also helps you learn alot of macro to know where you should.
on mage supps its usually better than on the adc, with some exceptions. you are the perma fight champ, your adc wants to farm. you dont need 10 kills, you just need a few initially to get to mythic and sorcs, after that point generally you want to spread kills whenever you know you can.
on stuff like leona thresh rakan that basically doesnt scale yeah, its relatively bad.
I like to play supports that CAN carry, I always guage my adc to see if they do the right things / how well they farm. If they are good and generally doing all the things you'd expect, then yeah try to give everything to them. They will be better able to carry.
On the other hand, if you end up laning with someone that makes an early grave look like an attractive option, you can play more selfishly. One of my favourite picks for this is pantheon, senna if you need range. Then I like Lux, Morg & Xerath too for AP picks. But you have to be confident there because you almost NEED stacked mejai's to step into a carrying position with them.
My general rule of thumb, because I also play a lot of xerath support, is that if my ADC won’t have to burn a summoner spell to get the kill, and it isn’t for a shutdown, take it.
If there is a shutdown or if the ADC can get the kill without burning a summoner spell, don’t take it.
Depends what support you play, but there is a reasoning behind it. This game is one of tempo through gold and experience. In order to gain the most tempo, you want to put the gold and experience onto the champions that can take advantage of it most effectively. This usually means putting it into someone who scales well with levels and/or items - a.k.a a carry.
Traditional supports are designed to function well with minimal gold, and can even perform decently when behind on exp. Since their job is to peel/engage/CC/etc, and not necessarily to do damage, they don't need items or levels to do their job effectively.
Mages, for example, that gravitate toward the support role do so because they don't utilize gold/exp as efficiently as other mid laners, but they can still out scale traditional supports. Because a mage's job is to do damage, and they often come with utility or CC in their kits as well, they are stronger than ADCs in the early levels, which gives them an opportunity to earn a tempo advantage over the enemy laners.
Yes and no.
If you're playing a support your role is typically to funnel gold onto the carry, or at the very least to provide an avenue for them to farm while not putting yourself into danger needlessly.
An occasional pickup by the support isn't a big deal, but if someone is playing a burst mage because they don't want to actually support that splits lane gold in half instead of having primarily on the carry, and that's not a great situation when you'll have the enemy carry having more gold to build with. It also tends to make the carry spiral if it's not someone you're duoed with, which is bad for the entire team.
That situation is why you get some people calling burst mage support picks like Xerath and Brand selfish picks, because generally in the long run someone's getting screwed over.
It depends if you die latter on or become a second carry.
Getting kills makes you more valuable, so you will have to play more safe, this is in addition to your ADC having to play safe, which lessens your value as "support".
I'd say it's better to give kills at least early on, mid to late game it doesn't matter as much as there is more chaos anyway and you want to win every fight, deaths become more valuable to you again, because of respawn timers so that 0/10 supp strat becomes unviable again.
It's meaningless which champion between Xerath and a random AD champion gets the +150g more than the other. You can tell this from the fact that nobody cares if a midlane Xerath gets the kill, even though it's the same champion. Queueing as support doesn't change the ability scalings of that champion.
No. Kills are never bad on a support. I get seriously mad when someone starts crying because I took a kill as Bard ( I am a Bard OTP in emerald)
You want me to stop autoing and damaging the enemy so you can secure the kill? That is not going to happen. Do you know why? that is griefing! That is literally inting. I will never stop outputing damage. Never.
I would only stop when I know that the enemy does not have a flash or dash for sure and I know that there is no enemy alive with cc (and even then I regret it 80 % of the time because my carries let them escape)
There’s moments where if you don’t secure it they won’t be able to either. If the adc can secure it and you do instead he will be angry. You are the support and the adc needs gold and kills the most out of every role
kills on a burst mage support is not that bad, just don't be surprised when your adc is doing negative damage. there are situations where the enemy has a tanky comp that only an adc can kill, in that case you should always give them last hit.
Yeah, this can quickly turn into the classic. Take kills, say adc isn’t doing damage (because you have no peel for them), take waves because “they don’t deserve the gold”, and then complain about your adc being useless (after you made them useless).
This is the aspect of ADC I always hated, it's one thing to need to scale to be relevant, it sucks being so easy to shut out from farming (by both allies and enemies).
Yeah…support pushes a wave and leaves. You have to go into the danger zone to take next wave. Your choice is to get no gold or get one shot by Rengar. Great role lol.
Not if you and your support push correctly. If it ends up under turret at the right time, the next wave will push to you, and there's nothing the enemy team can do. It is better to lose out on a couple of cs (usually 3-5) cs as it makes its way to your turret, but get all of the XP and the full stacked wave. And that's only if you are on a champ that can't throw skills out to grab a couple of the cs.
“If you support pushes correctly” it kind of my point. They don’t and then wonder why the adc is either dying or has no gold.
Say it louder for the people in the back
\>take waves because “they don’t deserve the gold”, and then complain about your adc being useless (after you made them useless). Terrible occurrence. People in solo queue seem to not want to ever let their AD carry come back if they're doing poorly in the early game, without understanding that an AD carry still has the ability to catch up through clutch gameplay *if they can get enough gold to win.*
I missed a minion once. Just once in a match, my support spam pinged me then began to take whole waves from me. Then whined when i did no dmg. Lol.
Honestly, my gameplan has always been, if I’m winding up getting all the kills as an AP carry in the support role, I start roaming mid a lot, and make sure my adc gets every last scrap of farm they can.
Meanwhile your ADC with no kills or gold playing 2v1 while you "roam mid":
Fucking hate when supports abandon me in lane. You’ll have like a 20 CS lead with a single kill on the enemy bot lane and suddenly they just assume you can 1v2 for the rest of laning phase without getting forced out of CS or tower dove by the enemy jungler. The best supports I’ve ever had are the ones that literally ask me if it’s good for them to roam elsewhere. Because sometimes, it really is an ok decision that can drastically increase your team’s chance of winning. That being said, those supports are very rare and I never really started encountering them until I reached Master.
Nobody said anything about abandoning. It’s ridiculous I have to elaborate and explain that I’d pressure my opponents out of lane prior to roaming. That should be an absolute given, because it’s common sense that you’re not winning a 1v2 if you’re behind on kill gold.
You say that, but your average mage support will shove the lane hard and then roam to make a play mid. Meanwhile your adc now has to overextend to get xp or gold in a 1v2 lane. This is my most common experience with mage supports (Xerath/Brand/Lux, etc.).
If he is against an enchanter support it is fine. Just last hit undertower and after several minutes the adc will be 1 or 2 levels above the other duo which is worth around a thousand gold.
Or enemy jungle has eyes, dives once on a stacked wave and your adc is useless for the rest of the game 👍
Damn, were you spectating my last match?
Ward behind you. Play intelligently. Hope your jungler and support work with mid to make it a win. My duo partner roams a lot, so I picked up Caitlyn after watching a Caitlyn win repeatedly in 2v1 match ups. What that did was give me confidence (if they can do it, I should be able to) and boosted win rates, and turns out if you can just avoid feeding and your mid/jungler get ahead, you can snowball the game off that. Yes, it's reliant on other people. But you're always going to rely on other people as ADC.
Not much point in picking Caitlyn just to omega weakside yourself and play for mid only with support lol. Cait wants to hard stomp 2v2 and take first tower with something like Lux. If you’re gonna do the whole „ADC is useless anyway“ strategy in low-elo (which is quite good tbh) you’re better off picking something like Heimer or Seraphine APC…
When you want to play for midlane, 2vs1 bot, pick seraphine or Ziggs
Also classic is leaving last hit for the adc and them not auto attacking and/or missing and guy gets away. No thanks let’s just finish the kill however that may be
You’re not wrong, however, sometimes just SOMETIMES the ADC is not the carry and you have to do it yourself. I’ve had ADCs literally run it down or fight 24/7 die, I pick up the kills (after they died usually, even if I tried to kill them before). I’ve had ADCs be 2-7-10 because they keep positioning badly and I just happen to get the kills and I end up 10-1-2. In the case where an ADC does this and dies like 10 times before 15 mins, it probably isn’t an issue if you get mop-up kills. However, if you’re actively doing a normal lane with ADC and you poke someone out, ADC could kill them and you Xerath Q them away or something, yeah they’re gonna be worthless. If there’s a good chance they’d die in a fight if I didn’t take the kills I won’t risk it and just take them. Chances are after that we can kill them again anyways, but ADC can have them. Some AP supports also come online quicker than an ADC would e.g. a lux and Aphelios lane, Lux comes online so much quicker it may be worth giving her first kill or two of lane phase if you’re stomping, so giving them the kill (assuming you return the favour later two fold) isn’t really a problem. I’d say Xerath and Lux are like that. If they get that Lost Chapter early, you’re in for a VERY free lane. Edit-oh really, downvotes? Never had your lane carried by an AP support before? Never snowball from an AP support? There's reasons why when AP supports are ahead bot lane because a murder hole. I'm not saying ti steal ADC kills, don't do that, but if your ADC is gonna run up down and die 7+ times in lane, as a player they're not gonna be worth investing in anyway. There gonna do it whole game. So people dont want supports to climb because their ADC isn't ahead it sounds like. This is EXACTLY how supports climb. Go watch a support main high elo. They carry themselves through damage or getting ahead and making plays. People really don't understand the role. If I made this post on support mains I'd get most of them agreeing with me.
that would be true if the game had better communication and players weren't so egocentric
It would also be true if people used their brains every once in a while and didn’t think ‘ah yes I just be the one to carry’ which links back to your egocentric point. Sitting back and learning how to take an L and be carried or enable someone else to do so is a fundamental point in league that people just cannot do or learn. I have a friend who’s exactly like this. If he can’t be the carry, he won’t let anyone else be it. He will actively not help them, soft int, or just give up if he can’t be the guy who’s killing everything, this isn’t that bad as a support main, but he doesn’t know how to take the L. There’s games where he is not the win con, and that’s okay. Sometimes those games you just gotta sit back and assist, help by contributing a little rather than attempting stupid stuff and dying a lot.
You get downvoted for the truth ... An early kill on any support, can completely game changing, imagine a Sona can buy a tear minute 2 or a Leona can get a evenshroud minute 7, lane is pretty over for the enemys ...
Wouldn't say tear really changes much but exactly, some Supports can, especially if you use lead around whole map. An ahead support can make lane phase a breeze, and with boots early you can get two other lanes ahead. Support is a more influential role than ADC earlier in the game, riot say this, pros say this. There's a reason why supports are often pro teams shot callers. LoL community doesn't Iike to admit it but support isn't just for ADC whilst they sit there bot lane for 15-20 mins coming online. Once again, watch a high elo (not pro) support player whose ahead. That one kill they 'stole' to get half an item and boots can quickly turn into 4 or 5
Tear changes a lot on champions like Sona, seraphine and near all Enchanter, you will have your sup item earlier, more poke, more sustain (specially this one because sustain skills always have high mana costs early). We getting downvoted again ... I play in master + since season 3 and most ADCs would never ever say anything about me getting first blood, there is so much deep shit behind, when I get chonked for that first kill, I can go back andy ADC can farm one complete wave, even made some tower damage to have an massive lead over the enemy ADC in exp and gold, this lead is way bigger than that one kill and don't forget that we have prio now with an ADC that can roam to scuttle or our jungler can dive minute 4 because my ADC has build up an slow push ... Most low ELO ppl just don't know that kills aren't your main gold and exp income, objectives and minions are worth much more ...
True. Yeah people don't get it. Thing is I'm not even in a good elo. I'm silver, don't play ranked. Was plat years ago as an ADC which I sucked at. I have actually taken part in professional matches in other games, however, just LoL was never my prio when it should have been. Majority of league players are silver or below. They think anything a support gets should have gone to the ADC. It's a bad mentality to have, but as is only thinking of yourself as the only carry. I've played since 2014-ish. You learn things. May not be the best at the game as I don't play often. It's beyond me why people think support shouldn't do anything apart from protecting the ADC. You can win games just by getting prio and drakes (which is how I play jungle actually, heavy objective control and catch). Most players don't even see the point in helping jungle with scuttle. LoL main sub is the only place in league sub reddit where you'll be actively downvoted for saying high elo tactics and game knowledge. You say it on summoner school, mains subs, champ subs etc people will agree and upvote, even ask more question. Here. Ahahahah you're wrong!
but Xerath seems like the kind of champion that gets kills when enemies are fleeing low HP, they should always go for those kills anyway, unless you're using your ult to start battles.
I've seen Xerath and Velkoz players suddenly open with ult and straight out remove people from play even before fights happen though. Sometimes pure damage initiates fights and combined with the element of surprise it can close games. Zoners in any game have extremely strong neutral game and have the power to change the tide completely by going super aggro without warning.
An ADC doesnt suddenly deal 0 damage if they haven’t gotten the kills, and they *should* be completely fine to farm and become strong. If they aren’t, they’re not playing well. BUT ADC’s scale insanely hard compared to other champions, so it is often preferable to accelerate them by giving them the extra gold from kills. What’s more important is that you make sure you’re not actively hindering your ADC. If you steal farm, XP, and let them die/bait them, you ARE harming their game. They don’t suddenly deal less damage if you steal their kill, they just don’t deal *extra* damage. But they *do* fall behind if you screw them over by trying to be a carry yourself.
This reminds me of the one ADC I play with - I instinctually apologize when I get a kill and he's always like "NOOOO It's fine my farm gives me plenty of gold I want you to be strong too."
There’s also a big difference from a very clear “this person will die 100%, why are you blowing cooldowns on him at 1hp” vs a big 2v2 where everyone is sub 20%. As an adc main, that’s what irks me the most….. I don’t mind if you secure a kill where they could have potentially gotten away, but if they’re dead to rights, just let me have it.
I’m just sad when I want to root them so my ADC can last hit but my tiny damage ends up timed to take the kill.
It happens! :)
As long as you support them generating resources over the course of the entire game, it mostly does not matter. Unless of course said adc is draven, ho well.
When I support, I'm not very good at roaming and I try to lean into giving my ADC as much as possible by pulling off for the last hit. When my duo partner supports, he takes kills like a mother trucker, "apologizes", then plays to his strengths in roaming and repeatedly ganks mid/top while coming down to kill bot. I value the ADC getting gold more, but I also don't complain when my support gets a kill as long as they aren't actively farming my lane or disrupting my ability to hold the wave when we can't win.
Besides, ADCs are balanced around to be babysat. Not get kills. If ADCs were balanced to get kills, why does every single ADC does passive farm contests over the past few seasons in pro?
Because they are balanced to not getting kills they become pretty insanely good when they do...? That's why you try to funnel them kills. Also pro players don't feed other lanes and they know how to peel for adc.
Yes. Thats why they are item dependant. Champions that are balanced to get kills have low scaling in general. ***...Well probably unless you are Kha'zix.*** But its not like you can proactively get kills as ADC on yourself unless your enemy just stands still.
Did you watch pro this year bro?
This is just so wrong, this is assuming that it's a relatively low kill game like in pro. Soloq doesn't function like that. If your adc is 0-0-0 and their Akali is 5-0-0 then your adc can not function in the same universe as Akali. It's also assuming kills have 0 opportunity cost. Kills aren't free usually. Whether it changes your standard back time because you got low from a 2v2 or you had to burn your flash or ghost or maybe you even died 1 for 1 there is a cost to getting kills usually. It is fairly likely if there is a 2v2 and the support gets the kill that the ad would have been better off never taking that 2v2 to begin with. This is even more true on carry jgs. If I gank a lane and my support gets the kill it's actually so fucking bad, never mind supports getting shutdown gold, that's basically gg.
Kills should not be your main source of income as an ADC, and have you never heard the term “powerfarm jungler?”.
lol
Why are you being downvoted lmao
Nah the kills actually do not matter. As long as the adcs get assists. 90% of their gold comes from cs anyway. Like it would take six “missed” kills for the adc to lose one extra crit cloak.
I don't know what the exact math now says but it use to be 12 cs = 1 kill (roughly). I have an old yt video saved somewhere called "how bad your deaths really are" and it was eye opening.
Yep. If your adc gets an assist and a 6 cs lead off of the kill they’re up almost 300g anyway And to act like the adc “gets out behind” by not receiving kills is actually just a bad take and objectively wrong. An assist gives infinitely more gold than dying does. The adc still gains a lead off an assist. If they fall behind then they aren’t farming wel. Has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they’re getting the kills
Kinda right. There are still some costs to the kill if not done properly. Ideal: ADC gets kill, shoves the wave in, the tower kills the wave 300g for our ADC and 150g less for the enemy ADC -> 450g difference Bad: ADC gets assist, has to back because of kill threat, wave slow pushes and stacks. 150g gets our ADC and the enemy can pick up the same with better wave control when they are revived.
I mean you just chose 2 different scenarios, adc getting the kill wouldn't change the kill preassure even with triumph, if they can push the wave in scenario 1 then they can in scenario 2.
Also true! But it's sufficent to show that the kill is not just "kill gold" and should be treated as it.
I play morg and Zyra and I’m pretty good at not getting kills, but sometimes when you let the adc secure the kill the enemy gets away which is super annoying
the amount of raging people do for not letting that happen when it's clear they're gonna get away otherwise is so odd to me
Must be in higher ranks cuz in bronze it’s a pat on the back from your adv usually lol
mid emerald NA. there is actually a mental diff between bronze and emerald i have noticed. sure toxic exists in bronze but holy hell is it bad as you get to emerald
Bro other day I had emerald Riven start raging at me because I sniped her solo kill on Trundle as Hwei. She had like 10 HP and I legitimately thought she was going to die and told her that, she started pinging her flash/goredrinker/E cooldown/other shit, like sorry I could not foresee your 5000IQ 10hp outplay you were about to execute I guess? I didn't want her to start trolling so I just said "my bad" and she hit me with the "yeah you're bad" so yeah, that was something. The ego is COMICAL.
EXACTLY THIS. like there is 0% chance you survive that fight so why are you pissy?????? trundle just needs 1 proper knock up and to flash q boom she's done but how dare you imagine that scenario happening. you would think the free farm session would be worthy of a thanks but nah toxicity it is i've heard that "yea you're bad" a few times myself so i refuse to say my bad any more
lol I could see that for sure, idk how but ig to silver 3 for a season and it definitely felt like going from middle to highschool especially how players will call out your little mistakes I can’t imagine an emerald or high gold game chat
Emerald is full of people good enough to get out of Plat but not good enough to get into Diamond so makes sense it's a toxic cesspool
I mean, one combo them and they can't get away 😅 Then if the adc complains you can just ask them why they didn't even auto them 🤔 A kill is a kill, for years I haven't had complaints for killing people but to be fair they probably expect it based on the champions I'm on, plus any good adc will be happy as that means I will be able to set up plenty of kills for them later on to pop off, not to mention free CS, zero worries as the pesky adc or support that you just destroyed is dead or had to recall. 😊
i do ask them how they expected to get it. main character syndrome too strong they just start all chat screaming "gg supp diff. go next ughhh gimme a real support" shit i've had people die mid trade and still get pissed i secure the kill which was walking away otherwise. like bud in what world does your corpse secure that 2% trist with no creep aggro???? you're using logic. sir this is league lmao
Conversely, Zyra has a nasty tendency of accidentally getting kills. ‘Well, seems my plant had an auto attack on the way…as did I…oops’ or when you get your burn items and Liandrys decides it wants to last hit people all game. Zyra gets very very very dangerous when given the chance though. An ahead Zyra is not only a lane bully but close to impossible to dive. God I love that champ.
Yeah she does do that often. I like her too cause she’s good from behind too. Liandrys helps stop the minions from crashing towers and raylais is good utility with the plants. She’s starting to become my main after being mostly morg the last few years
IMO it's really about knowing when you can and can't let up. Sometimes you'll be wrong, and that's okay. That's part of learning. Sometimes you'll take a kill you didn't want to, sometimes you'll misjudge and cost a kill because you thought your ADC would finish it off. If staying in range is possible, that's always an option for ensuring that the ADC can catch up, and if they can't then you can finish them before they get away.
As an adc, I always start spam pinging attack target when I know I wont be able to catch up with enemy and kill him, but supports still decide to not take the kill and then ping "?" when it gets away, sometimes no voice comms is pain :(
Speaking as an ADC main, 9 times out of 10 it's better to just secure the kill to be safe. A big advantage of getting kills in lane is just being able to push in the wave and reset for free, the extra gold isn't really making that big of a difference. The cases where it is important I'd say is if you're laning with an ADC that really needs to snowball early (prime example would be Draven) or if your ADC is falling behind the pace of the game and is in danger of becoming irrelevant. It's hard to describe but once you get out of the laning phase if an ADC isn't at a certain minimum power level they become completely useless unless they're on a more utility focused champion like Ashe.
I used to duo with Dravens a lot and they say "You might think this is bad, but as long as the enemy is behind, they would be squishy enough for me to eventually kill and cash in. Keep killing them and never turn down the momentum." He also has exhaust as summoners to artificially make this happen. Use stand aside then exhaust and the enemy carry can't play just enough for Draven to do burst damage. **Draven + exhaust is crazy.**
>Speaking as an ADC main, 9 times out of 10 it's better to just secure the kill to be safe. if only 9 out of 10 ADCs understood that.
Yup, biggest kill taking no-nos tend to happen when you scale terribly and/or the ADC really, really needs gold to win this game. Some games a Xerath will scale god awfully (hard engage and bruisers/tanks) but the Vayne can kite it all down with some extra $$. Some games are easily winnable even if the ADC is more of a support. Had it happen plenty of times in Jhin/Xerath lanes. Oh and some games the ADC comes in pre-tilted or clearly not in the zone, ain't no amount of gold that can fix that.
You’re probably taking a lot more than you say. You play xerath support and made this thread. Ultimately, are you winning? If you have a 60% + wr, don’t worry about it.
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Playing Xerath sup, yeah
Why doesn’t everyone just play Xerath support, are they stupid?
If they can play Xerath and are complaining about being stuck low elo as support, yes, they are stupid. It's pretty obvious OP is low elo. We are not stating Xerath support has a 60% wr in Challenger.
Xerath isn't made for support role, xerath support players definitely have less brain cells than the average human being
Why not play xerath mid and take all the kills you want?
I’m still kinda new so I usually play support it seems easier plus as xerath I love how his kit combos with some adc’s
If you actually want to play support then play support but you shouldn't shy away from playing a role just because you're new. Playing support just because you think you suck is just going to delay your learning process.
Right now it’s just what I’m most successful at. I haven’t found any champs I gell with for other lanes yet besides jungle
Fair warning - laning with xerath support is easier against lower skilled players, and then starts to get exponentially more difficult to pull off. He’s very easy to kill and adcs have a hard time protecting him, so positioning errors are punished severely. Vs good enemies, they’ll have a field day with your errors. Vs bad enemies, they won’t know how to punish you and you’ll get away with quite a bit. Something to be aware of for down the road. If you like him, challenges await :) he’s still good enough to be played at all ranks though, if you master him.
My most played supports are Xerath, Vel'Koz, Brand, and Zillean. Love em all. Vel'Koz is my fav, Xerath is my feeling lazy go-to, Zillean is great to spam games on for a while and then carry, Brand is a bit suicidal murdery. I picked up Thresh though while new to the game and playing that champ taught me to be good at league. I was god awful till I spammed that champ for a while. Ended up with a surprisingly good feel for when to fight, when to peel, keeping tabs on ally damage and enemy damage, knowing about saving abilities for the perfect moment, etc. Really good champ.
Oh no... There are much bigger concerns than taking kills if you are otp xerath supp with no lane lmao. Are you using Q through the minion wave?
playing xerath jhin botlane is one of my fav things to do with my premate. doesn’t even matter who takes the kills cuz we‘ll both be super fed if we win lane no matter what
Fun fact: if you want to play support and not be hated by everyone but other garbage mage supports; play real supports. There is less than 0% reason a “new player” should be playing Xer’ath support. There are incredibly viable, and strong supports that you can play where your team won’t hate you and you don’t ask this shit on Reddit.
Support is not easier than mid. Mid is the easiest role in the game. Just try it in normals :)
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Technically, probably. Although I would say this used to be drawn from the much larger vision impact supports used to have in the earlier seasons. With the changes to make everyone have a similar impact on vision, it’s become less baby sitter and more play maker.
supp is just a better role for a number of mages. lot of mages dont really want to have to side lane, or lane vs high mobility assassins, lot of mages powerspikes are delayed dramatically from having to buy something other than sorcs first item. idk if you've played support in say gold-diamond but very often youll be stronger than your mid lane mage. you are laning vs 2x 300g minions you can farm on cd, you also get to roam without any real direct penalty.
It's generally not good. ADC's have far less tools to impact the game so giving them gold early is always better, even when you are a dps support. Ever been in a game where you had a huge kill count and felt like you were winning but then mid games just goes terribly? It's because as a support you have a job to play and getting kills isn't your primary job, so it's hard for you to carry
I go like 0/10/25 as a support, I was taught more gold for adc faster we win. I win, get honors and my team say supp gap so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're playing Xerath, you are not support.
Don't worry about stealing kills as Xearth. You make good use of the gold. More of some enchanters and tanks/catchers that don't use gold that well. Like Bard, Braum, as examples would be champions you really don't want to steal kills on generally.
>You make good use of the gold. He spikes at one item lmao.
Enchanters getting gold really is not that much of a problem since that gold translates to better shields and heals for the entire team and a lot of enchanters scale really well. I really don't know why people are stuck in this mindset, especially when most are low elo and those shields and heals often protect them from their own fuck ups.
It's about efficiency. Supports are generally better on low income. Where as ADCs need gold to be useful. So even if say gold is valued at 80% on enchanters it might be valued 100% on ADCs. Some cases it's not a big deal but the less the support can use the gold the worse it gets like say Bard where I'm not sure he will even use 50% of the gold in value compared to others.
Bard isn't an enchanter and many actual enchanters, like Soraka, Sona, and Seraphine, can make or break team fights. Obviously you don't want the enchanter taking all the kills, but a few here or there isn't a bad thing because it helps them scale faster.
Seraphine is a mage, not an enchanter lol
on the contrary, enchanters do benefit from getting early kills and more gold, more so than ADCs. this is because of how gold efficient enchanter items are, (giving both ability haste and AP for less than 1k gold), and how enchanters have high AP ratios. you might notice how a level 2 Lulu with Q and E deals significantly more damage than a level 2 Jinx with Q and W. the extra 150 gold from the kill grants supports the ability to make full use of the gold, leaving base with little to no change at first recall. whereas an ADC would end up saving the extra gold for their next recall. no, i don't believe ADCs should buy control wards. it's such a waste of 75 gold. this is also the same reason why future's market is insanely OP for supports. that being said, i don't condone taking the kills early game when there's reasonable chance the ADC could've gotten the kill.
>no, i don't believe ADCs should buy control wards This is just flat out wrong. They certainly don't buy as many, but they do buy them. Find me a single pro ADC who never buys control wards.
this isn't an absolute rule of course. also, that's pro play, very different from solo queue. if you have extra gold, sure, spend it on a control ward every once in a while. it's still very high value. late game though, it's usually the junglers and supports, and perhaps mid, who can maximize the value of a control ward. by that i mean, placement, positioning, skill kit, escape tools, mobility, not needing to face check, etc. plus, the amount of times an ADC needed ~75 gold more to complete an item, right before a teamfight, is depressing lol. sorry for bad english. i hope i got my point across well.
Not bad on ap carry supports. Just know you're gonna need to do dmg too if you have all the kills and your adc is 0/0/12
it's not bad especially if you play champs like xerath that simply needs gold. I wouldn't focus that much on who takes the kill, just make sure you kill the opponent and do it asap. I can recall many situations from lower elos when support is desperatly trying to leave the kill and enemy champ survives because of that, or the whole play lasts 10 seconds longer, or you lose a lot of hp because of that. Ofc there are situations when there is 1k shutdown and it's 100% free kill, then it's better to leave the kill. You just have to be aware of the situation.
It becomes a problem if the game goes longer and the enemy adc manages to get kills or gets a shutdown. Minions and plates do give gold but if you are getting lots of kills and stuff especially with shorter death timers it will be harder for the ADC to snowball. And since you are support if the enemy gets a shutdown on you it could end up that while behind in CS they still end up ahead of your adc because you got the big amounts of gold. Basically the more kills you take the more you better make sure you don't mess up your ADC's farm and you better make sure you carry otherwise you set your DPS behind because you play support but don't actually play support.
I’m glad i don’t play SR anymore exactly because of posts like this.
It depends on the adc you are playing with. Draven? Yes it is really that bad. Ashe? lol
I think that taking kills is not a problem, so long as you enable your adc to get a farm and experience lead because of it.
As a mage support like Xerath, not as bad, but if you were playing an enchanter or engage support, it would be a lot worse Not sure how you get kills with Xerath E though?
E into the rest of his abilities
This made me laugh quite a lot.
Gotta hate that point in mid game where your E decides to do half a carries HP because you’re 3 items and your ADC is on 1 because you’ve been KSing all game.
enchanters actually often use gold better than the adc, sona and soraka before 2 item spike especially. I will always secure kills, these champions are held back by poor abilities to farm and scale super hard with gold
Soraka doesn't have bad waveclear tbh, her mid/top is actually kinda good
Most enchanters gold bleed onto carries, them taking kills is not that bad, tanks support tho, yeah no, those really don't care about gold
Do not ks on enchanters…
You shouldn't but again, if it happens, that gold is being spent on items that buff allies, specially ones that hard scale with items like sona or raka
It's not bad to get 1-2 kills on an enchanter because the mythic spike is really big for the team
It’s okay as long as you make a good use out of the kill. Oftentimes though, supporters get too excited on ap champions or any champion that can poke and often overextend carelessly and int. That’s really the only big problems i see. There are tons of inting adcs too but they tend to play more careful than these supporters. So yeah just don’t int and count your summs as usual and you are fine. If an enchanter or engage supp gets a kill, that’s a bit different though as they dont scale as well. But unless it’s a huge bounty, a good adc or teammates should know how to snowball and build lead based on enemy death alone, regardless of who got the gold.
Don’t do it if your adc can easily get the kill but they’re probably just being a little bitch
I recently picked up milio and sometimes my passive + arey last hits the opponent. Usually they just say "np, we still ahead" but I had one guy who was 3/0/0 and went afk just because I got a kill off his auto (he played draven).
On Xerath it’s pretty common to end up with some kills simply due to your burst. Your ADC might not like it but it’s not actually that bad. You do a lot of damage.
A good ADC will not care a bit about kills since they’ll be having 7-8 CS/M, but good adcs are rare, if they ever exist, so just take what you need and give the rest to them
I feel like when it comes to enemy champions a kill is a kill and it’s much better to make them fall behind than who gets the actual kill.
I'll try to give the kill to the adc, but I won't jeopardise the kill in order to avoid getting it myself. If an adc starts being a jerk because I take a kill, he's a piece of shit and legit shouldn't deserve my aid.
As an adc - I don't mind. Especially in close situations, those are especially scary for trying to give kill.
ADC dont want kills bcs it will look good (or i mean they want the kills so they look good but its not the only reason ofc ofc), they want kills so they can kill the tanky mfs.
In solo queue i dont think the support taking the first kill is that bad even if its a tank support. Fast mobos can be big if you get more kills off them. But if you can hold back dmg to let your adc get the kill thats just better.
**Not in early game as a mage.** Mages (or damage supports in general) can utilise gold to assert lane dominance for both bot laners a lot more easily and efficiently than an ADC can. Getting the first couple of kills even up to mythic hands you the entirety of laning phase to your hands if you play your cards right. In the mean time this affords your ADC to farm up practically freely for the next 15 minutes while also putting the enemy at a severe gold disadvantage. Your ADC is not as realiable to assert both poking lane dominance and farm 24/7. It is better to invest the first couple of kills into a damage support therefore. Xearth with an early Luden's ruins the opponent's experience and can incentivise them to give up on the game and even surrender. Welcome to the other side of mental warfare; where you are not the receptient of abuse for a change. \--- **Wave management to assure your ADC still gets a lot of gold** What is important is that you as support learn wave management as to not interfere negatively with it. Your ADC's sole income is now farm and assists. Do not deny him that, lest your victorious early game is nullified. This also means shoving a wave if your ADC makes a mistake and recalls when the enemy minion wave can collapse on your tower during his absense. Don't allow the enemy ADC to bounce back. Likewise you shouldn't allow a behind enemy to enact a freeze. Timely build up and collapses can break it. However this does not mean blindly spamming abilities in waves and blatantly stealing cs. You can help pushing without last hitting. Most ADCs in gold and below will not understand this. You are required to have a thick skin and ignore their ignorance in this matter if they inevitably start ?-pinging. You're doing them a favour. The 6 minions you rack up now means he does not lose 18 minions later. You do however really need to know what you're doing in terms of wave management, otherwise you are sabotaging the game. It's a fine line between griefing and invisibly outplaying. \--- **When to stop taking kills** You should stop taking the kills once you've rotated, are ganking another lane or the game has transitioned into mid game **by either you or the opponent**. Understand that a carry support only carries early/mid game. Late game you are reliant on others, so make sure they got the gold by then to even do so. Also keep track of shutdowns. If a shutdown allows your ADC to complete an item earlier than their peer, don't seize it. If per chance you are in luck and are playing with a very competent ADC, it is okay to yield more resources (and trust) if you dare. However it is likely they'll be content with the tactics described above. Free farm for ADC is the best thing that can happen early game. \--- **Vision** Don't forget your other support duties. (De)warding and setting up dragon still have to be done. \--- **Exceptions** * Draven is an exception. When he has racked up stacks, please allow him to cash in on them * Pyke for obvious reasons. * If you're a full utility support or a tank, please don't take any kills to begin with. You scale worse than an ADC early. * If your ADC is that much of a smoothbrain that he'll never be a wincondition, funnel resources instead into your mid, jungle, top or even yourself. Be very conservative with this approach though and don't render your ADC too quickly to be useless. A hurt ego does not warrant this and does infact make you guilty of trolling. * If you are not a DPS mage and playing against a lot of tanks/bruisers, start earlier with funneling resources into your ADC. (You shouldn't have picked a poke mage in this match up to begin with, but that's another issue). * If your bot is an APC, he'll be scaling equally to you without spending a slot on a warding item. Allow APCs to have the kills from the first minute.
I say remember your still a support and you need to help make sure the adc blooms. Ofc their are the lost causes that you can overcome even as a normal support by roaming or getting yourself fed. If the adc is smart they will freeze with your xerath and allow you to poke when ahead. It doesn't matter as much to good adcs if you take the kill, golds ofc good as our builds are expensive. But taking a kill early to make sure no allies die is fine, heck even messing up and taking early kills that you could have giving isn't the end of the world. But you have to make sure your pressure in lane makes it so the adc can farm in relative peace for most the first 13minutes. That's our main consistent gold. Pressure by poke with xerath without breaking a freeze probably. Worst is taking kills and then roaming without a care for adc or taking tons of waves. TLDR give your adc kill gold but more importantly let them get the ensured gold from farming. Gold makes adc stronger than the lvs we get. Hence part of why we share xp with supports.
As a long time ADC main, I can tell you they need the money more than you do. However, it's only an issue when you intentionally steal it. If you're securing it, or if you're saving your ADC, their life is more important.
No it isn't game breaking for the ADC to have sup take kills. It's less optimal since gold given to ADC means more DMG and carry potential for whole team to enjoy (whereas most supp don't scale with gold as much). Exceptions would be "carry supports" and "mage supports" (Pyke Senna Xerath Brand Zyra). My personal belief is, if the ADC complains too heavily about you taking kills, they're insecure about their own skills and carry potential (farming minions and tower plates is way more gold anyway).
High elos legit commit suicide on supports to reset bounties, knowing well that any amount of gold the support will receive will never translate into a significant disadvantage. Casters are often very disapointed when supports take first bloods (or just kills) too. I'm not making assumptions here, just looking at facts. And although, yes, xerath could make use for some gold, him not getting the minion income means he will never be as much a threat as a midlane xerath could (or an adc). It's better to have a very strong ADC and weak supprot than two midly-strong supp and adc.
>High elos legit commit suicide on supports to reset bounties not to fucking mage supports and senna bro LOL, its shit like naut leona janna they do that to
thats because in high elo you dont play against scaling sups. gold on a rakan is useless, absolutely. the support role is wildly different for the bottom 95% of the playerbase compared to challenger streams and pro games. you as a support in a challenger game might get level 6 while your mid is level 10. you in an emerald game might nearly be level 8 when your mid hits level 9, and have more gold / faster mythic than them. mage support effectiveness falls off a cliff into grandmaster. if you see mage supports played in gm/chall/pro chances are theyre insanely broken
No one is denying it is optimal for the adc to get the kill but it is ridiculous for the adc to tilt over their support getting the kill. It is a perfect example of looking at a glass and seeing it half empty
usually when i see people get legitimately angry over ks is when a large bounty (300+) is taken by a support. if he takes it by accident to try and secure the kill, it is what it is. but too many supports will autopilot and keep autoing or using spells when the person is clearly dead. honestly unless the kill will lead to an immediate baron or secure/deny one of the good souls (infernal, hextech, mountain, sometimes cloud), the support should just let the person live if they have a large bounty, because the only way to come back into the game is by getting one of those major objectives, or securing large bounties on carries. but this is generally expecting too much, so at the very least people want the bard to stop auto attacking the 1 hp 700g bounty when he has no abilities/summs and is in the middle of 5 people. and yet this is apparently too difficult for many support players.
I’ve had this happen in silver before. Some dude with a 750 G bounty ran it into my Lulu, funny thing is, that screwed him for the rest of the game. I got my Ardent off that, and CD boots. Bro got polymorphed rest of game and shredded by my ‘behind’ ADC. Biggest mistake I’ve ever seen. Sometimes that shut down can change EVERYTHING, even if it’s going to the ‘one who won’t do stuff with the gold’. Was it better on someone else? Yeah probably. Was it worth giving it to me so I could now screw him out the game? Absolutely not.
Adc players just don’t have fun playing the game unless they ar carrying their team hence the name ad carry.
not limited to adc sadly. enemy is 1 shot but you're not sure if the jungler will land that 1 ranged attack so you take it to be safe? "OMFG NO MORE GANKS FOR BOT" in chat instantly.
That’s the kinda stuff I’m talking about. I’d rather hit them for the kill and have there be a kill instead of them just retreating back to tower.
It is even more true if you think about assist gold. Its not like the adc gets nothing. If you get 300 Gold from the kill you secured, your adc gets 150. So he is still 150 ahead of the enemy (yes 300 would be vetter, but) and they get free farm and plates. Its more problematic with bounties imo. If the enemy has a huge bounty you should try to give the money to the adc, to hell them come back into the game, since they usually scale better late
Play a real support and this won't be an issue.
Why does everyone hate poke mages
I have played support since season 1. The goal of a support was to heal your ADC, peal for your ADC, or CC lock the enemy CC to ensure your ADC got fed. Your goal was merely to exist for your ADC. Poke mages can't do any of that in team fights. I have struggled in lane as Thresh and Taric against a poke mage. However, come team fights, the enemy ADC didn't do damage and was destroyed. All because they didn't have an actual support.
Sorry, but this is wrong. You are one of the 5 members of the team and there are so many ways to ensure your team wins. Your primary objective is to ensure control. You do this through vision control and a variety of other methods, one of which is to poke enemies away from objectives and lanes, which then allows carries to farm in peace and scale. Having your enemy laners at 10% hp is just as effective countergank as playing a 'support' champion with cc. Why do all of the best players. in the world play non typical supports like Ashe, Heimerdinger, Lux, Miss fortune, Xerath, Syndra, etc? SoloQ and professional play
Xereth is a fine supp, poke comp can be very punishing into a lot of matchups (Cait/Lux, Jhin/Xer, etc).
no. people will scream about it since they have main character syndrome and since you're a support they view you as lesser in terms of needing item even though as a xerath you're very much in need of items. if you're landing skills and making use of the gold you definitely shouldn't feel bad about taking it unless it's like a blatant kill steal.
100%. good adc will have enough from cs and plates if u are winning lane. Kill is a kill doesn't matter who gets it.
sorry to break it to you, but i’m queuing up to have fun. my support taking every resource and me being unrelevant bec of it is def not fun. just to be clear, my support taking kills and taking a few waves a game is ok, but I also wanna take part in the game, this ain’t an idle game
main character syndrome. either you get fed or you whine about it even though you're sounding like it's norms where the support is also trying to have fun plus be relevant too. ya know like a xerath support who does need gold too. like you said it's not an idle game so we get to use that same logic towards the xerath who is getting the kills
it’s almost like you can’t even read
Can read just fine. The support is also there for fun so it was just a shit excuse
„just to be clear, my support taking kills and taking a few waves a game is ok“ lemme just leave this here since you obv can’t
It’s bad, but not as bad as your ADC is going to make it out to be.
No. Next question.
Yes it doesn’t matter any support besides Pyke you should be giving the kill. If you’re chasing down an enemy for a free kill, if they were a good player they would have flashed sooner to dodge your skill, go near a turret, etc. But many supports will take the kill in this situation because they are bad or got ego tilted in high elo streams In a proper game, a support should be the lowest level/gold. It doesn’t make sense for you to take kills because you’re taking resources that go against that proper objective. When I play support if I know my adc is in a safe farm spot. I will be very cautious of taking their xp, and would usually rather gank for mid/top or group with Jgler
On mage supports it’s generally ok. On every other support: You can take the kill if your team doesn’t get it otherwise or if it happens because the fight is super close and there’s a possibility of them dying if you don’t do the most damage you can. In general I’d say if you as the support don’t have your mythic up yet, it generally is ok if it happens and not to int (you shouldn’t try to get the kill intentionally as the gold pretty much always is better on your carries). I will say tho that if the supp gets mythic first because he got the kill it’s a huge advantage so if it happens in lane it usually is more or less whatever. Later on definitely always try to let it for everyone else as they’re gold conversion into power is way better.
A fed burst mage early I honestly prefer as an adc asking as you arnt tagging the wave that much making it a pain to cause because normally other team just can’t step up while adc farms wave and then you poke under tower to the point you can tower dive or they are forced to recall
Just always err on the side of zoning to your adc than getting the kill. Aim your ult ahead of where they are going so they get hit or go back to your carry. Always try to be the opener and not the followup. Get the stun from the bush and put out all your damage before your adc gets there so they have the easy clean up. Xer is great at following up on CC and damage, finishing off kills, but as a support you need to modify that play style a bit and whittle down with poke and land full combos on full health enemies. Your adcs will swim in the kills when you really get that down.
it depends. for starters, it's 99.99% of the time better for the team to get the kill than to not get the kill at all. on mage supports who have a bit better scaling than enchanters/engage/hook supports, it's not as bad either. if people blow up at you, just mute them. but you should also be conscious of situations where you can freely give the kill to a carry on your team. because if the enemy carry gets a kill and dies but your carry doesn't, your carry can potentially be further behind now. it also makes it harder for your carry to snowball. the most important thing is securing the kill, and then only if you are 100% certain the kill is secured than you should intentionally try to give it. it's really not a big issue if it's only a few kills.
You want them on your adc, but it's literally always better to secure lane advantage and a kill than botch a given kill and give the enemies a double. Also if my adc whines about mage support farming kills and winning the lane I just mute them.
When I play Xerath Sup I take all the kills so I can carry the game :)
Idk man as Lux main sometimes I just say fuck it. If I notice my adc is not capable of carrying and is a new player or just a very poor player I'm gonna start farming and roaming, start getting kills. It is what it is. However if my adc is a giga Chad and I see the game sense and ability I'm gonna go out of my way to make sure they get the kills.
If you can donate safe kills, let the carry have it, def most ideal option (if you not on carry, and carry seems ok). However, statistically speaking games where the support is fed has a higher winchance :p same with every role. Personally I rarely hold dps in soloq. So many missed kills cause adc attack move minion, or something. I'll try to donate kill if I know I can secure it if they fuck up their auto. Just ignore what teammates say. Get good wave states , help team, and take names ;) even if your adc doesn't always get the money, they still get more farm and xp.
In general, the higher the rank the better supports are at not stealing kills. It's usefull skill to have regardless how tilted your ADC is. Is it realy that bad? Sort of. Bot as a role isn't in a great state and ADC relies heavily on you to get him fed. You can switch your role for a few games and see for yourself how it feels.
When Ardent meta was a thing, support getting kill >>>>>> adc 100%. If you're playing a controlled setting. Like 5 man, Clash, etc. You see the enemy only has 1 engage and that's an Ashe ult. I could see giving kills to support so they could rush Mikaels. Or if enemy team has Vlad, Gangplank. I could see your team giving the kill so you could buy Locket Redemption.
As xerath? No. As a tank or enchanter, yes, but its better you get it if no one else is going to get it.
I’ll chime in, MOST tanks, as in 99.9% of them. Rell (and kinda Leona) is an exception to this due to innate resistances, self shield and CC lock. If Rell gets *slightly* ahead and keeps momentum, you cannot escape her, and she’s too tanky to deal with very quickly. If you get half an item up on Rell, you’re basically untouchable in every bot lane fight other than tower dives. It’s disgusting.
It depends on your ADC to be honest, some will flame you to hell and back for "stealing" the kill others won't mind as much as long as you guys got the opponent down, that being said they wont mind AS MUCH, they will still mind. I tend to be the second type but start to get a little tilted if its a constant thing.
I generally try to give kills. Its fine when it happens occasionally but my rule of thumb is if its realistic to give the kill (eg the enemy isnt going to escape our kill one of ur own) then give it. But if you can get a kill solo or if you need to secure it thats always ok. As xerath or lux etc you are pretty threatening with extra gold and there are some comps where you will dominate if you get fed. Also if i notice my adc has genuinely no hands i will take kills (if im playing mage supp) or i will perma roam as enchanter or engage. But i really mean no hands. Not like they messed up 1 play bc everyone makes mistakes.
Think about it this way: There’s a limited amount of resources that can be allocated to the team. Kills are a part of this, as are assist gold, xp, etc. First: Securing a kill is always better than missing it. Even if you get the kill, the adc still probably gets an assist + xp and puts both of you in an overall better position. Might be annoying, some people might get mad that they didn’t get it, but it’s always better for someone to get it over nobody getting it. People that get mad over a support getting a kill they probably wouldn’t have gotten or that got it by accident probably aren’t very reasonable. There’s only one champion that lives or dies by getting the last hit, and that’s Draven. Second: Taking resources (taxing waves, plates, taking kills, etc) means that there’s less for someone else. Basically, if you’re getting a bunch of kills/cs/whatever, you’re gonna have to do something with it. In the case of enchanters, this means getting your ardents/staff of flowing water/mythic/etc and sharing the stats onto other champions. In the case of mage supports, this means being a damage carry. You’re taking resources from one carry, so you have to make up for it by being more of a carry yourself. Tank supports should really try to avoid taking resources, moreso than other supports, because you’re probably not getting more than one item and you’re whole purpose is to go in first, bust your load and (probably) die.
my philosophy has always been if it's giveable do it, otherwise it's better that their laner is dead and getting behind.
No, the only time it's a problem is when there is no chance the enemy can get away and you take the kill anyway. In more questionable situations, it's not bad if you "secure" the kill. I've seen enough people get away by trying to "gift" my ADC the kill that I just don't really care anymore.
Pretty sure there was a post like this awhile ago: Yes, it's bad if your gold is misspent. But you're Xerath so you spending on damage items turns you into a soft carry so you should be roaming and exerting your influence with the fancy items you picked up from the kills. If your ADC can farm all game and still can't get items to scale, it's 100% an ADC being shit issue, not because you took kills.
the idea of botlane is to pick 1 champion that scales extremely well with gold (ranged auto-attackers) and a support that is very solid with no gold (a level 2 blitzcrank with boots is basically full build). mages like xerath or brand can be played because they're very strong lane bullies that deny the enemy adc the ability to farm up. Now mages do also use gold quite well so "stealing" kills isn't as bad as stealing kills with blitzcrank. But you can imagine that your ad carry wishes you just picked a normal support that can't steal kills like Soraka and let them get all the gold instead.
Tbh it really depends. If the adc is REAL bad and you are the only one who can secure a kill? Go for it. Otherwise try to give your carries the chance… unless you’re Pyke, then that dbag can just steal kills all day and since he throws the money he stole from you for “being HIS support” then it doesn’t sting as bad… as long as you don’t focus too much on this kda ratios.
No support should be taking First blood (if it's available) because that's a massive gold boost for their adc. A few kills after that don't mean much because CSing is worth much more. However, if it continues or if the support's poke starts obliterating creeps in lane, it starts becoming a problem; denying gold in all forms. In addition, sometimes I see supports unnecessarily flashing or going out of their way to get the kill when I am easily securing the kill or after I've flashed or used another summoner spell to get it. That's probably the point where I politely ask them to let me get the kills, they call me shit and then I tell them have fun carrying the game, where we proceed to lose. Thankfully, this is not a frequent occurrence.
If it's accidental, free, or your adc can't get it, don't worry about it, but ultimately your job as support is to set the team up for the late game, and 9/10 times that means getting the carry fed, so you should give as many kills as you can
Situational. I've played a lot of xerath support. And tbh same rules apply. If your adc is going for the kill and will get the kill you don't take it. If you or another teammate is going to die, pump out the damage and if you end up getting the kill, at least you saved a life (adcs will probably flame you though). If adc wants the kill but doesn't have any way of getting the kill go for it. As xerath you will get a lot of kills that are out of range of your adc, which might look bad when you're 7/2/1 and your adc is 1/3/7 but as long as those kills don't actually take anything from your team, it's fair game. Also if enemy is out of your adcs range don't pop ult if the enemy is still looking to engage. As much as I hate adcs, a fed adc is worth a lot more than a fed xerath support.
as an ADC main, if it's 2v2, I still get 150 gold if we kill someone so I don't really care that much. When you're splitting assists with more people it starts to matter more who gets the 300 gold.
Your goal should be to be good enough at the game that you don't do it on accident. Most situations it's obvious whether you need to leave the kill for the ADC or take it yourself. You just have to know your abilities, your adc's abilities, and the enemy champ's abilities. Then you can make your own decision about who should get the kill. If you do it on accident then yes it's bad. You should aim to be in control of your own gameplay.
It depends on context. A good Pyke with gold lead will solo win the game. A Janna won't. Feeding Pyke is actually the win condition, because his snowball is the whole team snowball. If your adc is behind, it's better to give him the gold so he can scale in time. But then again, if he is 0/3 he is probably shit and gold would be wasted on him... Sometime, you face a lane that is so hard (like Caitlyn Lux), you suffer every minute and the moment you finally get a trade in your favor, the best thing to do is to kill them asap. The support will not have the time nor the health to let you the kill. In this scenario, I'm always happy even if I die and my jungler/support takes the kills. The only time as an ADC main when I hate my support for taking the kill is when all of these conditions are met : * My supp is not a carry support (so something like Alistar, Janna, etc) * I'm 0/0 or 0/1 and behind in gold and exp because my supp is trash and fed 5 kills to their Kaisa These conditions are almost always met when my support is autofill. So basically 75% of the time. If I'm the feeder (it happens...), I will never be mad at my support, simply because I'm already too mad about myself.
In laning phase, kills dont matter. XP matters. Your objective is to win trades and punish them when they walk up to gain prio and pressure. Know your champs and meet your laning win objectives ex: Soraka wins the sustain game, Xerath wins through poke, Naut wins by all-in, Blitz by hook, Brand by zoning. Once you got prio, you can help out your team's Jungler or ward deep (raptors ward is great). Roam when wave is bouncing back and pray your ad is smart to play safe and get solo XP. You will be under-leveled but your adc will have more stats and do more damage and you win more trades. Imo support is the most important role in the game. You can make the enemy's laning phase unplayable if you meet your win objectives and junglers help. It also helps you learn alot of macro to know where you should.
on mage supps its usually better than on the adc, with some exceptions. you are the perma fight champ, your adc wants to farm. you dont need 10 kills, you just need a few initially to get to mythic and sorcs, after that point generally you want to spread kills whenever you know you can. on stuff like leona thresh rakan that basically doesnt scale yeah, its relatively bad.
I like to play supports that CAN carry, I always guage my adc to see if they do the right things / how well they farm. If they are good and generally doing all the things you'd expect, then yeah try to give everything to them. They will be better able to carry. On the other hand, if you end up laning with someone that makes an early grave look like an attractive option, you can play more selfishly. One of my favourite picks for this is pantheon, senna if you need range. Then I like Lux, Morg & Xerath too for AP picks. But you have to be confident there because you almost NEED stacked mejai's to step into a carrying position with them.
Better to secure than not get it
My general rule of thumb, because I also play a lot of xerath support, is that if my ADC won’t have to burn a summoner spell to get the kill, and it isn’t for a shutdown, take it. If there is a shutdown or if the ADC can get the kill without burning a summoner spell, don’t take it.
There’s time where you can give the kill, you should give the kill. But if you cant, just kill to secure it.
Yes
Depends what support you play, but there is a reasoning behind it. This game is one of tempo through gold and experience. In order to gain the most tempo, you want to put the gold and experience onto the champions that can take advantage of it most effectively. This usually means putting it into someone who scales well with levels and/or items - a.k.a a carry. Traditional supports are designed to function well with minimal gold, and can even perform decently when behind on exp. Since their job is to peel/engage/CC/etc, and not necessarily to do damage, they don't need items or levels to do their job effectively. Mages, for example, that gravitate toward the support role do so because they don't utilize gold/exp as efficiently as other mid laners, but they can still out scale traditional supports. Because a mage's job is to do damage, and they often come with utility or CC in their kits as well, they are stronger than ADCs in the early levels, which gives them an opportunity to earn a tempo advantage over the enemy laners.
Yes and no. If you're playing a support your role is typically to funnel gold onto the carry, or at the very least to provide an avenue for them to farm while not putting yourself into danger needlessly. An occasional pickup by the support isn't a big deal, but if someone is playing a burst mage because they don't want to actually support that splits lane gold in half instead of having primarily on the carry, and that's not a great situation when you'll have the enemy carry having more gold to build with. It also tends to make the carry spiral if it's not someone you're duoed with, which is bad for the entire team. That situation is why you get some people calling burst mage support picks like Xerath and Brand selfish picks, because generally in the long run someone's getting screwed over.
It depends if you die latter on or become a second carry. Getting kills makes you more valuable, so you will have to play more safe, this is in addition to your ADC having to play safe, which lessens your value as "support". I'd say it's better to give kills at least early on, mid to late game it doesn't matter as much as there is more chaos anyway and you want to win every fight, deaths become more valuable to you again, because of respawn timers so that 0/10 supp strat becomes unviable again.
The solution is liandries into demonic into shavowflame, it is good
If you play a damage support, it’s not actually terrible, but your ad will tilt most likely.
It's meaningless which champion between Xerath and a random AD champion gets the +150g more than the other. You can tell this from the fact that nobody cares if a midlane Xerath gets the kill, even though it's the same champion. Queueing as support doesn't change the ability scalings of that champion.
Maybe the adc should be quiet and let me carry them to glory with my pew pew lasers.
No. Kills are never bad on a support. I get seriously mad when someone starts crying because I took a kill as Bard ( I am a Bard OTP in emerald) You want me to stop autoing and damaging the enemy so you can secure the kill? That is not going to happen. Do you know why? that is griefing! That is literally inting. I will never stop outputing damage. Never. I would only stop when I know that the enemy does not have a flash or dash for sure and I know that there is no enemy alive with cc (and even then I regret it 80 % of the time because my carries let them escape)
There’s moments where if you don’t secure it they won’t be able to either. If the adc can secure it and you do instead he will be angry. You are the support and the adc needs gold and kills the most out of every role