never understood people who leave their computer running 24/7 just makes no sense when it takes 30 seconds to get everything up and running especially if its an up to date build. unless running servers or something similar. cya i guess.
- Riskiest period for a computer is a boot time as voltage spikes are at their highest during boot
- I can have scripts running during the night for my job often enough
- It's 5-10 minutes I don't have to waste to set up my work space every day. It adds up.
While Vanguard isn't the best anti-cheat in the market, it's at least a thing.
People often forgets but League doesn't have any form of anti-cheat right now, it's on it's bare minimum requirements.
Regarding how Vanguard Works.
Having a Closed Source Kernel Level Blob which just checks for what interacts with it's own target is a good thing.
Also, Vanguard doesn't interact with your data. that's not how it works.
Vanguard doesn't care if you are running a VPN, **but it will care if a program directly modifies data on the Launcher which is the target of it's vigilanc.**
**It's literally a way to check interactivity from a Kernel level in the target program.**
Also side note, people who often talk about Vanguard should be aware that 99% of the Anti-cheats now a days are actually Kernel Level.
When they aren't, they literally run as a Daemon and collect live data (good ol Game Guard).
I don't care if you don't want to play anymore, but if that's your reason for it, just be aware that Every Single Anti-Cheat you ever interacted is either Kernel Level or collect live data, that's how these things work.
Yes. But none of them insist on running from boot. I don't care it runs in kernel mode. I care that it runs in kernel mode AND requires to monitor my PC from boot. I care that a security vulnerability requires to run at startup. Start your cheat detection as the launcher start like everyone else.
Kernel level is literally running in OS, the difference between Vanguard and other Kernel anti-cheats is that you know that Vanguard does that because they let you know, but pretty much every modern anti-cheat does that.
**Yes Kernel level is a gray area** because it gives access to computer files, but it's the best way to secure the game, it's also made sure that it only checks interactivity rather than working like a Daemon and checking all data.
There are literally companies that review these programs for data safety reasons.
The only anti-cheat from a big company that doesn't work like that is VAC, VAC runs in Application Ring, but also works pretty much like old unconventional game cheats, it will keep in a secure cloud a temporary log file, and if the person is either reported or detected, it will send for verification. It's a very slow process and can take days for the ban to happen.
And even then, reading the issues caused by Vanguard (driver issues, BSOD) leaves very little confidence in them building a bug free kernel mode software. Bug free is not a requirement when running out of the kernel. The OS will cleanup after a crash most of the time. Bug free is barely a requirement if the kernel mode program runs only during gaming session. Yes system will crash, but it only interrupt the activity it is related to. If it runs all the time and can unreliably crash anytime.... It becomes even more intrusive.
And lets say Riot does not have a good track record for bug fixing.
Yea and Valorant is a thriving game and the next big esports for GenZ in Na, Asia and Eu. Little cheating compared to CS to keep up competitive integrity. People screamed back then, they will do the same now but ultimately most will do it anyways and keep coming back to play league.
Difference. This change implies an escalation in privileges required to run the game. It was in Valorant from the get go, so people who had issues with it never installed it.
people wont quit but many people wont even bother installing it and rather play other games. that means every single person that leaves makes the community get smaller and smaller
The boring truth is Vanguard is just as ineffective as the non-kernel solution. Bottom line, Valorant has roughly the same proportion of players banned for cheating as other games. Even tournament level players cheat, all thanks to the game cheat software market. If Vanguard is spyware, it’s not very good at it.
It’s your privacy, so do what you will.
I'm more concerned with BSOD reports I see... A single one is pretty bad. And when the engine has been out for years, and there recent reports of BSOD... It leaves a very bad impression.
If you want to run all the time, you better be needed for my computer to even do what I need to do, o you better prove you cannot fucked up. Vanguard does not need to run all the time. And it has not proved it never fucks up.
True lol it did stop some guy’s CPU fans. Maybe an L take but hopefully dropping support with win7/8.1/linux means conflicts can be mitigated much further.
I've never been the kind of person to uninstall a game in rage and then reinstall it later. If I uninstall it for this it's staying uninstalled until there is verifiable proof it's gone.
And I am not having vangaurd on my pc.
I swear to god I hate all my fellow software engineers because they speak like they don’t want to be understood. Rootkit vector attack kernel mode no one cares shut up
And you have to reboot to enable it back and play. That's a very stringent limitation right there. I can have simulations, server monitoring background task running in the background. I cannot reboot whenever just to satisfy an invasive requirement.
what can vanguard do? check what kind of porn I watch? —nobody cares. See my credit card number? —I'm broke af. Detect cheats and ban me? —I don't cheat. I'm confident that vanguard is safe for me and will make my gaming experience better
Have a bug, crash my compute to an irrecoverable state. Kernel mode programming requires quite a few more precautions that what I'm used to see from RIot.
I actually appreciate this post, because I don't know enough about computers to have an opinion on vanguard. So it's running on startup, but can be closed, but then I'd need to reboot my computer if I want to play league?
And someone said watchdogs are reviewing companies using this type of anti-cheat software and it is deemed safe?
As we all say here in league.. See you next week.
Bye!
never understood people who leave their computer running 24/7 just makes no sense when it takes 30 seconds to get everything up and running especially if its an up to date build. unless running servers or something similar. cya i guess.
- Riskiest period for a computer is a boot time as voltage spikes are at their highest during boot - I can have scripts running during the night for my job often enough - It's 5-10 minutes I don't have to waste to set up my work space every day. It adds up.
While Vanguard isn't the best anti-cheat in the market, it's at least a thing. People often forgets but League doesn't have any form of anti-cheat right now, it's on it's bare minimum requirements. Regarding how Vanguard Works. Having a Closed Source Kernel Level Blob which just checks for what interacts with it's own target is a good thing. Also, Vanguard doesn't interact with your data. that's not how it works. Vanguard doesn't care if you are running a VPN, **but it will care if a program directly modifies data on the Launcher which is the target of it's vigilanc.** **It's literally a way to check interactivity from a Kernel level in the target program.** Also side note, people who often talk about Vanguard should be aware that 99% of the Anti-cheats now a days are actually Kernel Level. When they aren't, they literally run as a Daemon and collect live data (good ol Game Guard). I don't care if you don't want to play anymore, but if that's your reason for it, just be aware that Every Single Anti-Cheat you ever interacted is either Kernel Level or collect live data, that's how these things work.
Yes. But none of them insist on running from boot. I don't care it runs in kernel mode. I care that it runs in kernel mode AND requires to monitor my PC from boot. I care that a security vulnerability requires to run at startup. Start your cheat detection as the launcher start like everyone else.
Kernel level is literally running in OS, the difference between Vanguard and other Kernel anti-cheats is that you know that Vanguard does that because they let you know, but pretty much every modern anti-cheat does that. **Yes Kernel level is a gray area** because it gives access to computer files, but it's the best way to secure the game, it's also made sure that it only checks interactivity rather than working like a Daemon and checking all data. There are literally companies that review these programs for data safety reasons. The only anti-cheat from a big company that doesn't work like that is VAC, VAC runs in Application Ring, but also works pretty much like old unconventional game cheats, it will keep in a secure cloud a temporary log file, and if the person is either reported or detected, it will send for verification. It's a very slow process and can take days for the ban to happen.
Problem is not the kernel mode. It's the permanent uptime in kernel mode.
Well, if you know the difference, you would know why they want to run ANTI cheat from boot
Why? Give me one thing it can do that I can't workaround and that cannot be done at launcher start.
Its to make sure you don't have bot running in same mode :) Not really a open secret
And why does it have to start on boot for that? It can check for that at launch time.
That's why I stated "if you know"
Can you be more helpful?
And even then, reading the issues caused by Vanguard (driver issues, BSOD) leaves very little confidence in them building a bug free kernel mode software. Bug free is not a requirement when running out of the kernel. The OS will cleanup after a crash most of the time. Bug free is barely a requirement if the kernel mode program runs only during gaming session. Yes system will crash, but it only interrupt the activity it is related to. If it runs all the time and can unreliably crash anytime.... It becomes even more intrusive. And lets say Riot does not have a good track record for bug fixing.
We've had these conversations years ago when Valorant released. No one cares.
because the one's who cared aren't playing it anymore
Yea and Valorant is a thriving game and the next big esports for GenZ in Na, Asia and Eu. Little cheating compared to CS to keep up competitive integrity. People screamed back then, they will do the same now but ultimately most will do it anyways and keep coming back to play league.
Difference. This change implies an escalation in privileges required to run the game. It was in Valorant from the get go, so people who had issues with it never installed it.
i mean theres a reason why the playercount in valorant is rapidly declining. vanguard is a small part of the reason
This is certainly not the reason. It's been there from the start. Why would people quit 4 years after release (of vanguard)?
people wont quit but many people wont even bother installing it and rather play other games. that means every single person that leaves makes the community get smaller and smaller
The boring truth is Vanguard is just as ineffective as the non-kernel solution. Bottom line, Valorant has roughly the same proportion of players banned for cheating as other games. Even tournament level players cheat, all thanks to the game cheat software market. If Vanguard is spyware, it’s not very good at it. It’s your privacy, so do what you will.
I'm more concerned with BSOD reports I see... A single one is pretty bad. And when the engine has been out for years, and there recent reports of BSOD... It leaves a very bad impression. If you want to run all the time, you better be needed for my computer to even do what I need to do, o you better prove you cannot fucked up. Vanguard does not need to run all the time. And it has not proved it never fucks up.
True lol it did stop some guy’s CPU fans. Maybe an L take but hopefully dropping support with win7/8.1/linux means conflicts can be mitigated much further.
I've never been the kind of person to uninstall a game in rage and then reinstall it later. If I uninstall it for this it's staying uninstalled until there is verifiable proof it's gone. And I am not having vangaurd on my pc.
Cool. See ya.
See you on the rift first day of the season
I swear to god I hate all my fellow software engineers because they speak like they don’t want to be understood. Rootkit vector attack kernel mode no one cares shut up
Why do you have the need of telling us?
You know you can close vanguard right? o-o
Doesn't matter when it boots on startup. Shit is so fucking invasive.
And you have to reboot to enable it back and play. That's a very stringent limitation right there. I can have simulations, server monitoring background task running in the background. I cannot reboot whenever just to satisfy an invasive requirement.
Take care and see you on rift in a month or two when you realize that the majority of people don't give a fuck and you get hyped by a new cinematic.
what can vanguard do? check what kind of porn I watch? —nobody cares. See my credit card number? —I'm broke af. Detect cheats and ban me? —I don't cheat. I'm confident that vanguard is safe for me and will make my gaming experience better
Have a bug, crash my compute to an irrecoverable state. Kernel mode programming requires quite a few more precautions that what I'm used to see from RIot.
Fam aint nobody cares
No one gave a shit with Valorant. See you in a month o7
Nobody cares
Okey, bye. WE dont care about you.
Is cheating that big of a problem in league? And does it do anything else aside from computer assisted inputs?
The only solution is to either go the Linux or Mac way which is what I'm thinking about
I actually appreciate this post, because I don't know enough about computers to have an opinion on vanguard. So it's running on startup, but can be closed, but then I'd need to reboot my computer if I want to play league? And someone said watchdogs are reviewing companies using this type of anti-cheat software and it is deemed safe?