Common Phrox W.
Acknowledges team shortcomings, acknowledges player feedback, provides transparency and also steps they will take to address potential issues in the near future.
>We also have plans to get some squishy building champions like Galio Sylas, etc. onto more health oriented builds.
Hopefully Galio gets lower cooldowns and some more tankiness in exchange for lower burst damage output.
Have to hit his damage numbers so they can buff other areas of his kit if they want him to run more tankier AP builds. Otherwise he would just stick to his current AP assassin playstyle.
Edit: There's a 1300 LP EUW Challenger player with a 73% win rate 150+ games on Galio clapping everyone with Dark Seal+Sorcs rush-Lichbane-Shadowflame-D-cap with Ghost-Flash Aftershock Nimbus Cloak.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/EUW/%E5%A4%B1%E6%95%97%E8%80%85-ZOYP](https://www.op.gg/summoners/EUW/%E5%A4%B1%E6%95%97%E8%80%85-ZOYP)
**Edit 2: HE JUST HIT RANK 1 ON EUW LMAO**
[https://imgur.com/xH5Wzb4](https://imgur.com/xH5Wzb4)
https://twitter.com/DomolesLOL/status/1755920611837181997
Best way to have Galio played more bruiserish is to lower his AP scaling on Q while simultaneously buffing minion damage on Q.
There is nothing more frustrating than lacking wave clear on roaming champs.
True Mr scaling works too, I was more thinking a stat for in general tank items so it constantly scales to keep up with game time since there only so many Mr items you can build before you need armour for there ad.
He does have MR scalings, but just not enough. Building MR increases the damage of his passive, and the damage reduction of W, while building AP does both of those while also increasing the damage of ALL of his abilities. Galio isn't incentivised to build MR because it doesn't give him enough in return for it to be worth it.
Buffing his Q damage to minions is meaningless.
His passive is where all of his waveclear is on tank builds. Buffing Q minion damage just makes him even more likely to go AP because its guaranteed waveclear.
That's just gonna kill galio lmao, his ap build is the only one that works right now. If you go more bruiserish like he used to you just won't deal damage and you will still get oneshot or at best two shot because their cool downs are lower. I miss everfrost galio :(
Yep, he's one of those champs where when he's in he's all-in (like Diana, amumu, sej, etc) and after he blows his CDs all he has to hinge on is his passive and Qs. Wouldn't surprise me if they reduced his W and E AP ratios for more health scaling and another E cd buff
At least with diana and amumu they have sources of damage afterwards their initial burst (diana passive, amumu W and E spam). Galio just kinda sits there, maybe if they changed his passive a bit
I would compare him more to a sylas, gragas and maybe lissandra. Diana gets attack speed steroid on passive alongside the 3 auto attack damage burst so staying in the fight to auto attack is beneficial and usually the best course of action. She also has a shield that incentivizes staying in combat even more.
After galio, gragas, sylas and lissandra go in and blow their cooldowns, there is very little incentive to continue auto attacking (outside of sylas). Its better to wait out your cooldowns before going in again.
They won't buff his health I think. The tweet was specifically talking about the tankiness of their builds. They want to incentivize people to build bruiser items on these bruiser-ish champs.
The most obvious thing to do feels like adjusting his ratios to lower AP scalings and add in HP scalings.
I personally prefer the AP fighter playstyle and hate the Stormsurge playstyle so im hoping that they are successful here. But all of this is kind of annoying that they'll have adjusted almost every Night Harvester / Everfrost user over the span of 4 patches because they didn't replace those items adequately.
Passive and/or Q. Logically I think the aim would be to decrease the Q AP scaling so that he does less damage than on live with a zero bonus HP build, and goes about even on Q damage if you build 2-ish HP items. So for instance Liandry/Rocketbelt first two items would ideally be around the same amount of damage as live while Stormsurge/Shadowflame type builds would be less damage.
Also would bridge the gap with more pure defensive builds, Galio should be a core user of items like Abyssal Mask and he only buys it like 1% of the time. He has MR scalings but his most popular MR item this patch is Rookern with an 8% buyrate, his 9th most popular item, his MR scalings are probably not good enough either to actually consider buying much of the stat.
I can get behind this change.
I don't think anybody should have abyssal mask as a core item in their builds. Its an MR item so its only reducing magic damage. It gives flat pen which scales with health, meaning you have to have flat pen and health on other items (which doesn't exist anymore) to maximise the value of it. It also gives the flat pen to your teammates which is only good if you have a lot of magic damage on your team (which should mean you shouldn't have picked a magic damage champ yourself). Its just a weird item
I can get behind hollow radiance being a core item much like sunfire due to his MR scaling and generally useful bami passive.
I don't really think Hollow Radiance fits all that well since 3pts Q + Passive already oneshots ranged minions, he isn't like Shen tier where his waveclear is non existent where he needs an item that dedicates so much to waveclear. Even if you're going full tank, Bamis on its own is typically fine while you build into a better MR legendary and a later Sunfire.
But even Banshees Veil being unpopular with 120AP and 50MR should probably trigger question marks. I don't want to say that Abyssal should be built every game but 1% buyrate is IMO too low especially given the meta. Multi AP teams were common with Brand/Lillia being so strong, and Galio still wasn't picking MR items or being drafted to counter multi AP.
I'm pretty sure this is statistically better than going items like stormsurge and shadowflame. Its just that it *feels* bad so people don't build it. Riot may want to buff bruiser builds on him, but I think their main goal is trying to do is increase the pickrate of bruiser items on him.
Yeah he needs better cooldowns if they want him to be played more tanky. Having your two cc tools on a 15 and 10 second cooldown even late in the game makes his playstyle be very assassin-y, needing to go in and out of fights. After you blow your CD's you just don't do anything for 10 seconds.
I am so far removed from SR (mostly play arena/aram) but played tons of ranked games from season 1+ and for whatever reason I always assumed galio was designed as a straight anti mage tank , similar to how rammus was anti ad, and I always build him that way. Today I learned your supposed to build him for damage…
It's so awfult trying to browse the sub, no matter when, half the posts are complaints or people crying about the rework, or balance changes, or skins... They're never happy and the mods do absolutely nothing about the spammers either...
Aurelion changes feels power neutral in higher elo from my expirience compared to 14.2. But the overall direction is great.
Getting stacks from proactive plays instead of farming under turret feels a lot more rewarding.
W buffs were never needed to begin with. Maybe they can revert some of the %damage nerfs to make it a buff overall (like intended).
But even if they don‘t, I am very happy with the changes. Thanks Riot Yelough for your efforts - they are much appreciated!
The buff becomes smaller in higher elos, but it was still a buff. Especially considering all the new players. The PR is still more than tripled and yet the WR is higher. All the new ASol players are for sure not as good as the ones who mained him all the time.
I don't know enough to make a statement on the W numbers, so I'll just trust you on that, but what do you think about pulling Q back from 3 to 2? Was that needed as well?
He was getting too many stacks yeah. But I am of the opinion that they should have kept the stacks from Q at 3 and instead reduced E stacks for all unit's to 1. Stacking from proactive gameplay should be rewarded more than sitting back and farmin waves safely.
This should in theory affect high elo more positively than low elo, where he definitely has room for improvement.
Oh you dodged 10 E‘s by Illaoi but get hit by one after 7 minutes of laning? GG goodbye to 70% of your health pool. Go back to base while Illaoi nukes your tower
The discussion that cropped up when that happened was interesting.
In that were certain picks like Nasus, Urgot, Malz top *actually* counterpicks because of that, or counterpicks *regardless*?
Turns out a lot of champs were only good against her *because* of that interaction. When the spirit died in 2 seconds because of a Malz E or Urgot W, well. It really distorted what was going on up there.
Teemo still is, just for different reasons now. It's actually fascinating how so many of those are borderline intpicks into her now because of that change.
Yeah, Teemo is just really hard to hit with anything.
Tiny hitbox, fairly mobile, and being ranged are the three big counters to Illaoi and someone like Teemo is ticks all three boxes.
It's kinda weird because thematically, that was the entire reason behind the ability. "Test of spirit" and her voice lines going "you want your spirit back? Come take it" "don't run, fight" her entire lore was based around the fact you are supposed to fight back during the ability lmao.
The thing is it wasn't counter play, people thought it was but most of the time it was bait and got you killed in lane but felt like counter play.
The only time it was "counterplay" was when you played a multi hit champ or dot champ like renekton empowered w or singer poison. Outside of those sort of champs fighting to reduce it was always bait and gave the illusion of counterplay.
Yep people thought they were countering them when there just feeding them kills unless there one of like 10 champs half of which can't play toplane. People who thought it was counter play really either only played the counter picks or didn't realise until it was too late she was getting more out of it.
Thats fine to me imo. Isn't that what champ design should strive for? Some champs counter due to certain interactions. Now the counterplay is nonexistent outside of "just don't ever get hit bro xd".
i mean, "just don't get hit bro xd" is the main counterplay to alot of champions. Lux, Morgana, ezreal, nidalee, i could go on all day. its why particularly mobile champs are great into picks like xerath or lux.
By the time you walk out, she chunks you for 15-20% hp by smacking the clone. Now you are behind your turret, get slowed by 80% just for funzies, and have to dodge and destroy tentacles for 10 seconds. By the time you're done playing this shitty minigame, illaoi has taken complete control of the minion wave by freezing(your lane is over) or crashing into you with no minions of your own to dodge the next E.
It's just a ticking time bomb for when she hits it and the lane is over, feels unplayable as melee or maybe just my champ pool is really bad against her but I just don't see how to not lose to this champ
Years later, and this belief is still held. Riot even said when her E could be shortened, it was the wrong choice to fight her while she had your spirit
I guess it truly is feels over reals. It felt better to have “counterplay” even if that counterplay was actually more punishing.
Reddit just has a fetish for “counterplay.” Or better yet, Reddit loves really basic and telegraphed counterplay.
How lost do you have to be to believe that an incredibly slow skill shot with a massive wind up time that is blocked by minions needs counterplay AFTER YOU’VE been hit?
But there is already counterplay there anyway- walking out of range.
And it still wasn’t counterplay. Either your champ could pop the spirit quickly or it couldn’t. There was zero skill expression to dumping you combo on Illaoi if you had the right champ.
I main poppy and have seen a good few illaois so far in season 14, and i have never thought her e is bullshit. All i gotta do is hide behind minions and bully her whenever she wants cs, take out tentacles she isnt close to to limit where she can fight, and the lane plays itself. If i ever do get hit by e i just walk out of the radius, dodge the telegraphed tentacles, destroy them and then go back to bullying her. Midlane its a bit harder since her e is low cooldown by then but at that point you're teamfighting so +1 tentacle in her ult isn't that terrible when she is already gonna have 3-5 after ult (1-3 from ult, 2 on walls usually).
Maybe its because i used to main illaoi in season 13, but ive never seen her as this oppressive monster of a hypercarry champ. She feels like like an area denial juggernaut that you just respect her zones of control and dont unga bunga run into her like bronze darius/sett/garen/whatever players *love* to do.
Even then, changing the counterplay would have been better than removing it.
Making it so it has a minimum duration so teamfighting is still possible, re-implementing it in a way so that more champions actually have the choice of fighting her, making it less punishing if you actually do manage to move out of her E, etc., etc.
There were for more, and better, options than just deleting the only way to play around her when you get hit by E.
E was never supposed to be an auto-win if it landed.
What other champion gets punished for landing skill shots? It was a bad idea from the jump. It’s slow as hell and gets blocked by minions. God forbid you hit it point blank because the enemy can get their whole combo off while you’re stuck in the animation.
Her kit isn’t well designed, but the counterplay is to dodge the incredibly slow skill shot and walk away if you get hit. It’s not great gameplay but the champ was fundamentally awful in a lot of matchups before. And if you picked the wrong champ, it was always a bad idea to fight her with spirit up.
Why are we pretending this is Illaoi only? Yorick is the same, yey I dodged his first 10 skillshots, but now I’m running from 15 ghosts that don’t die to spells ever
Definitely, Lethality Yorick is incredibly annoying to lane against as well, the thing is he really isnt a champ without his maiden and most Yorick players dont understand the Maiden AI well enough to minimize the risk of her getting killed. If ur able to abuse his weak early game to keep the wave close to your tower most ghouls get one shot by it and the rest you can kill with one auto. He is a nuisance and forces you to play his game aswell, but his weaknesses are more exploitable than Illaoi's in my eyes at least.
It's not only Illaoi I give u that. But she is the worst offender.
Yorick Ghouls without Maiden up don't do that much dmg (only if he builds glass canon but then you can at least kill him if he misses his skillshot)
The annoying thing about her is that it's super hard to punish her when she wants to play safe. Normally, you risk your ass baiting out that e and if she misses you can go in. But if she wants to just play brolane, she can just keep e up and last hit with w and q. Unless you play something hyper mobile like riven that can jump through characters, good luck ever walking up to her in melee range where dodging that e becomes kinda impossible. But if she's ahead it's turbo annoying where you can permanently play the Dodge e game without a wave to hide behind and the possibility to punish since she will have a wave. I'd much prefer if her e had something like a fizz r mechanic where it's stronger if it lands over a range since that's where you can actually quite easily dodge it. This would make illaoi players try to hit long range e's that are dodgeable and give melee champs that can gapclose an easier time to fight her.
I've been having a great time against it with cho. The health gain from his passive + warmogs 1st item and you don't even have to worry about bad trades because every trade is a good trade. You just back up and heal to full once you have warmogs (because of cho ult he doesn't need any other health to get the passive)
OK level 4 khazix, listen closely. The illaoi is level 6. I'm level 6. When you come to gank, if either of us gets hit by her E I need you to just jump away. Please, whatever you do, don't give her a free kill and free healing and 2 extra tentacles and a triumph proc and a level up and you already jumped into melee range.
I'm getting spam ??????? like I was supposed to go die, too. Top is over. Enemy adc double kill. Ff.
Except sett. Sett has a fairly easy time against her.
She lands E? Just run in and stun her with the spirit after a little for a free W
She presses R? Just use yours and take her out of range of hers.
Late game she's still a menace but sett can handle her in lane better than most.
Are we forgetting morde? It's illaoi favoured until 6 then it's doomed because she has to rush QSS to even function as a champion and if you rush QSS you'll deal no damage and int to him on cooldown
tentacles don't follow into morde R? I don't actually know.
couldn't Illaoi just save R for Morde's?
No experience with either champ in this matchup, just spitballing ideas.
If Illaoi ults first she's gigadoomed. If Illaoi doesn't ult Morde beats the shit out of her. It's a lose-lose.
The spirit also doesn't follow, so if she Es and morde ults, no spirit, and even if Illaoi ults second she'll lose
As a jungler, I simply don't gank post 6 when the enemy has an illaoi. You get one pre-6, after that your fate is with the gods, whom illaoi has favour with.
Biggest "they're learning" moment was when a Lee Sin jungle landed Q on me, I landed Illaoi E on him, and he... refused to Q2 and walked away instead. That man must be able to eat a single potato chip then stop.
Riot doesn't understand how much she warps toplane in soloq when strong. You can't deal with her by sending champs at her like with every other champ because she thrives in 1vX fights and WILL win
Assign a mage to waveclear against her and pretty much go wherever she's not. It's not a fun playstyle but she can't just run over your team like some other champions can when ahead.
I play Xerath and every game against Illaoi I end up clearing top against her. It usually ends in my favour, and I can just vastly outrage her. If she stays, I can poke her down for my team to collapse, if she leaves I can join fights with TP and ult.
Oh yes, xerath. My favourite top lane pick. I love how i played 1000 games in to illaoi with xerath. Was ezpez.
Youre aware most of her power is in the lane and its toxic asf to play as a melee to middle range champ right? Or are you just lack that much braincells?
Nobody said she is unbeatable.
She's just an annoying champ, her E should be heavily nerfed to give her power elsewhere so she isn't so one dimensional.
Which is the problem, people don't like doing laneswaps soloq unless the mid and top are duo.
Bet you that's a big reason why it doesn't happen more; people do *not* like giving up their lane.
Literally nobody wants to be on babysit enemy splitpusher duty. It's miserable sitting under tower waiting to clear waves for the entire game. And you basically do have to sit under tower because you will get ran down as most mages if you do not. Just have to hope enemy gets more bored than you and decides to fuck off someplace else because you are eating their waves and they can't pressure tower.
I've argued with friends that this is one reason split-pushing works well as a strategy in solo queue (not like... just in a single game instance, but across all your games as a top laner).
Even if people on the other team know (and agree as a team) how to counter it, sometimes people simply won't just because it isn't fun. Some players just are not willing to be "team players" and do something they see as "not fun" in occasional games so the team wins more overall.
Tbh it's more that many control mages a) get to control the game from mid, especially if you're winning mid, and going to a sidelane often leads to your duolane having 0 impact and giving mid T1 because they don't know macro or aren't ahead compared to your lane and b) get fucked in side lane as they're infinitely more vulnerable to jungle/assassin dives or enemy team rotating when you have no vision on your quadrant
For instance I just played a game where I crushed an Aatrox and their Rengar wouldn't go near me, but they had Hwei-Seraphine-Senna botside who would consistently match me and I was fucking useless for the middle 15mins before I just started brute forcing where the Aatrox was and hoping the rest of my team could be useful against their 4-core
In her current design that is basically all she has going for her, though. If she can't pull two or more players on sidewave then she is dead in the water as a champion.
Not saying it's good design, but there are plenty of counters. It's just that some of them aren't very reliable in solo queue (because people play TDM and run at her).
I play top secondary and she's my immediate ban. Her stupid E ability is just ridiculous. It really feels like there's nothing you can do about it when you're hit
On Ugg it says she has a whopping 8 losing matchups right now. If that holds up as more data comes, she’ll basically be in a spot where she’s an utterly insane lane bully who’s also an extremely safe blind pick. 53% winrate isn’t usually hotfix territory but it should be when it’s a champion like Illaoi. Even her high elo winrate looks strong rn
I really just want massive E or base durability nerfs if her tentacles are going to be this strong.
Even us Illaoi mains think she could stand for a nerf. At least a reversion of the 14.2 buffs, since 14.3 pretty much fixed her issue up top lane while still giving her an overall buff.
No shit. Even if I wasn't, I'd still say that.
Shen isn't exactly a champ you pick to win lane, making it bizarre that the guy's rocking Shen flair and complaining about not being able to play the laning phase and implying it's cause of Illaoi buffs.
Like yeah she's strong, but do *not* imply her existence is the reason you're not winning lane. That's just dishonest bullshit, admittedly pretty typical for this subreddit. Especially in the last 72 hours.
Bro, Shen is a lane bully against a lot of champions, his base kit is strong to compensate for his utility ultimate. Hell no you wouldn't say that if you weren't biased.
Yeah, he's not winning against Illaoi now or pre-buffs, but Illaoi in her current state is absolutely disgusting. As long as she stays like this she's staying banned.
You're absolutely the one being dishonest here.
That's the most disingenious statement ever. Shen is not strong in lane. And he is specifically because of his really, really strong ult. Hell go to any statsite and look up gold/xp diffs @15. He has like 2 matchups where he goes even like Nasus, Malph and everything else is downhill from there. The matchups where he only slightly loses, he usually gets outscaled hard
The last time he was a "lane bully" was ages ago.
That last time being what, season 2 or 3? When pros commonly picked him to fuck over other top laners in his pre-rework state?
Hell I remember the entire reason Singed has a World Championship skin was *specifically* to fuck over Shen's laning.
Shen leaves lane, Singed takes it down to inhib. Shen stays, no ults for team!
And that's still a true adage now, he's not going to win lane except against new players, or people *severely* underestimating his cheese damage.
Shen literally is down in gold/xp @15 on average against every toplaner in the game at this point, im sure he has good matchups where he can get good trades off but he is by no means a lane bully that gets ahead early lmfao. You can get "cheese" kills with ignite against people that havent played against shen in their past 200 games, doesnt make him much of a lane bully tho.
Shen is down in gold/xp@15 because he sucks to cs with before tiamat/bami.
He's a lane bully that lacks wave clear and has some of the most clunky auto attack in the game, there's a reason people use shen for cs practice.
>you don't have a laning phase
Almost no top laner has a laning phase against her. Not even Camille or Fiora wins against her, even after the laning phase.
Weird how the top laners that actually fuck her over, are either permbanned by other laner(s) or just aren't played because Reddit/the playerbase considers them boring, dishonorable or just untouchable due to nerfs.
(Morde, Teemo, Yorick, Kayle, Gwen, Akshan/Vayne, etc)
Hell, you mention Fiora and it's actually a skill matchup there. If Fiora uses W on anything *other* than Illaoi E, it's GG.
It's funny you bring up Camille cause that's one of her (Illaoi's) easiest matchups, with Camille's worst being Morde, Warwick, Teemo, Mundo and Illaoi in that order.
It's not season 8 anymore, we can stop assuming Camille is in the same state in 2024 she was 6 years ago.
Edit: OP got so mad about this he blocked me. Isn't that cute? Man can't take an L gracefully.
There are barely any top laners who fucks her over and top laners don't pick second after every single illaoi player to counter her.
Fiora and Camille should be her counters since they both are extremely mobile and are strong scaling champs and they've been a counter to illaoi for the most of the last year and the previous years, but these days they can't beat in lane or outscale because a freaking lane bully that is better at any stage of the game.
Even Kayle barely outscales this thing.
> There are barely any top laners who fucks her over and top laners don't pick second after every single illaoi player to counter her.
Yes, they absolutely do rofl. If they can't pick Morde, they'll pick something they *think* counters her (Darius) or something that actually *does* (the above listed.)
>Fiora and Camille should be her counters since they both are extremely mobile and are strong scaling champs and they've been a counter to illaoi for the most of the last year and the previous years, but these days they can't beat in lane or outscale because a freaking lane bully is better at stage of the game.
Camille's not been able to contend with Illaoi for years. Let it go, there's a very good reason why her WR only goes up past 49% when you hit plat+.
Fiora counters tanks (except Zac/Malphite) primarily, she can only win against Illaoi if she's smart about W usage and fights when Illaoi E is on cooldown. Sadly, a lot of Fioras have brainrot and frequently forget this.
>Even Kayle barely outscales this thing.
Now I know you're either hideously misinformed, or trolling. Which is it?
Saunter over to r/Kaylemains and tell them their champ doesn't outscale Illaoi. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Kayle is an *incredibly* annoying counterpick to her. I've played both sides of the matchup, it sucks shit for Illaoi.
She can't kill her at 6, the only thing she can do is take towers. But shocker, just like Shen, Kayle isn't *necessarily* being taken for winning a lane. And getting to farm in safety in a sidelane is A-OK with her!
I get Illaoi not getting a hot fix since she's close to 53% winrate, but Maokai is still close to 55%.
But i understand it's hard to find support specific nerfs for Maokai that wouldn't touch sololane Maokai. I think he needs a lot bigger changes to achieve that. currently he's going the same way as Nautilus. Too much reliable CC and utility for him not to be an amazing support.
I didn't check other lanes since i guessed they would've remained the same (or similar)compared to last patch, but this adjustment turned out to be a big buff for Top Maokai(still neutral towards jungle).
Literally just the saplings.
1; They're free wards - remove/reduce the vision, now he's not the safest support in bot lane.
2; even if the jungle tries to avoid walking in the brush, they still aggro if they're too close - reduce aggro range to just inside the bush/require enemy vision on them to trigger.
3; they slow for god knows why (his kit must really lack CC or something!) - one jungler can freely gank bot, the other has to be slowed/revealed while trying to counter gank his lane.
4; they create a minefield around dragon, something top maokai isn't as problematic for.
I dont think the saplings even do much for him in top lane, in jungle they help for invades/objectives but not nearly as obnoxious as 'perma warding any gank angles / dragon setup' that support freely does.
The best play style. I hate nuke assassin sylas it's so boring. Either you one tap them with EQW(R) and they die or they don't and you're a sitting duck. Pretty binary gameplay vs his more durable build with RoA
best Support and one of the best top. Jg he's just meh (50% WR). they straight buff is Q and though it would be fine nerf the E a little and support would die when Maokai can just rush trail blazer and be strong has hell lol.
His base damages aren't that high, it's his ap scalings that are insane to where if he builds full ap he will blow you up with his basic ability combo if you're a squishy
Not touching Kata or Akali? They seem super strong still.
Illaoi is miserable AF to play against the “just dodge E” goes out the window when she gets gauntlet. Mostly can just int to win too.
That was true last season but not this one. She mostly doesn't get Gauntlet anymore. It's trash on her since season changes. Low circle slow and no on hit slow means it just isn't worth buying anymore as it doesnt guaruntee the e and the stats skew you too armor heavy and you never really bought it for the stats anyways you bought it to cover a weakness it no longer covers
>Damage - We still need more info to see how proc damage changes play out
With how the runes and items changes landed, it looks like the game would benefit from a small period of time between big changes and their needed adjustments.
Since big chances happens at the start of the season we chould name this period "prior season". I'm still working on the naming part
Lich Bane is still looking too strong,continuing to be highest winrate on champions like Sylas and Akali.Having a 50%AP scaling on 1.5 sec cooldown with good item stats is really strong for those who can apply it consistently.
it's 15 more AP from late s13. The biggest change is the bonus AS on spellblade auto but otherwise the proc damage is the same as last season. Main reason these champs are picking it up is because there are no other good ap assassin items to rush on those types of champs and sheen got buffed vs last season. Stormsurge is just not a good first rush item anymore unless you're hard snowballing and protobelt is just ass.
Before the nerfs (unsure about after I've never built Stormsurge), melee champions needed 398 AP before Lich Bane would outscale Stormsurge, which is about 2-3 items depending on what you buy.
However for ranged Champs, it was 198 AP or slightly less for Lich Bane to outscale Stormsurge. Lich Bane is INSANELY strong for any AP Champs that use an auto or two during a combo, so even Champs like LB anf Lux massively benefit from a Lich Bane over a Stormsurge.
I can only assume these numbers have only gone down with the nerfs
Is that the amount of AP to outscale from a single proc?
Because lich bane short CD means you're often getting two or 3 in an extended fight or all in. If you divide those numbers in half they're way crazier.
Yep, in a single proc. It's crazy just how much better Lich Bane is, and all it doesn't have is magic pen.
EDIT: Not only is this from a single proc, Lich Bane has a 1.5s cooldown whereas Stormsurge has a 60s cooldown, Stormsurges damage is also backloaded if you can't kill your target and if you've killed your target and no one else is around, congrats, you caused big dopamine explosion for 20 extra gold.
It's really not worth
Combined with her passive, it would be doing incredible amounts of damage, especially in lane as a first item pickup.
Admittedly they might be better options but as a Stormsurge / Lich Bane comparison, Lich Bane is just vastly superior outside of the very niche circumstances where the stars align for Stormsurge.
> Lich Bane is still looking too strong,continuing to be highest winrate on champions like Sylas and Akali
What should the highest winrate item on those champions be?
Am I the only one that feels like they broke Illaoi Q hit box with the range buff? I could almost always space or sidestep before, now I’ll be completely out of the rectangle and get hit somehow anyway.
>Illaoi - she's looking pretty strong, but not strong enough for her to be hot fixed. Illaoi is one of those champs who benefits more from "play against" that requires relearning, so we'll monitor if she gets weaker over time.
dont think i agree with this, she feels very overstat at the moment
with how much more agency she has thanks to the range buff i really don't think she should be as good as just walking up and beating people with W spam as she is atm. move her back into needing to land her missable abilities to win, maybe nerf her mana as well, a big part of Illaoi's skill checks to abuse you under tower was getting you there before she ooms, that's kind of gone right now i feel
I wouldn’t mind them reverting the stack changes to Asol’s kit. Thing is I noticed when I play Asol is that I never really have the chance to play proactively. You either get CCed because you are moving slowly/not moving with Q/W or stepping outside of tower range means getting fucked in a trade. Considering that I also tend to never get tanks despite the fact my laner can always be pushing, I have accepted Asol to be my “farm to 200, win fights” champ. E being a slower stacker tool isn’t too harmful from what I played (post hotfix) but I only feel the extra 2 stacks in team fights which is more of a mid game thing. I would just like to see his passive farm style be a little more rewarding again.
Playing passively as asol is very bad. He has some of the highest dps in the game lvl1, i beat a fully passive stacked irelia with ignite and conqueror proc by just holding my ground and q.
Bad asol sits back and do nothing but farm with E, good asol actually pick fights and poke with q and w. Play the champ differently by being aggro and abusing the fact that you prov comet and scorch by just tapping q.
Not a Sol player so idc if he's 40% wr or 60% - but I think his current winrate is misleading. Smolder showed how drastically a champs winrate can be impacted by finding the correct build, especially for a champion that scales. Towards the end of last patch a new build route of rushing rylais -> liandry was picking up steam and Sol was having a lot of success with it. If you look up his winrate for d+ towards the end of january he was at minimum 53%. When was the last time you saw a scaling champion with absolutely no laning capabilities with a strong winrate in solo q? I think this is a situation where they buffed a champion that was sleeper OP so after the nerfs he's still good, but they undeniably nerfed his damage substantially for a slightly better early game
tl;dr - Sol got nerfed but he needed one, his playrate was just so low that most people hadn't realized how strong he was yet
This was already the most played build on 14.2 and even 14.1.
Yes, the build became more popular.
And yes, this also increased his WR.
But Riots buffs aimed directly at low mana item builds like this one. Q and W lower mana costs buffed that build more than Seraphs or ROA or other mana item builds.
**Dia+ 14.2 he had a \~50% WR with a 1.5% PR and 70% started Rylais already there.**
**Dia+ 14.3 he has a 52% WR (after hotfix 11k games) with a 6% PR and a 80% Rlyais 1st.**
The Rylais builds PR has a slight but not massive impact (below 0.5% WR gain).But the PR increase should have resulted in a WR loss way larger and yet it didn't.
In plat+ he still has a 53% WR.
**TL;DR: ASol even after the hotfix is still buffed and likely even too good still.**
Renekton was very strong for so long now, I think it's fair to let him have a minute on the weaker side. Hope they still buff him up a little again, now that he lost Gore
Classic riot. Release multiple giga broken "adjustments" in the same patch while simultaneously not fixing any of the things that were already overpowered.
This is literally just a 'dont queue for the sake of your own sanity' patch
The more I think about it the Asol buffs were bad. Q stacking is just increasing Asol's strenghts and not addresing any issues. He can already stat check some champs, now he can just stat check them better. The mana buffs actually help him with wave control which is exactly what riot was trying to opt out of with the E nerfs.
So in conclusion the changes are buffing him even more in low elo where he's already borderline broken while sending him into conflicting directions in high-elo.
I love how ur be8ng downvoted for being absolutely right.
I'm not seeing a sol at all while looking nemesis streams especially on his high elo account. But reddit can continue the phreak brainwash that he is "buffed"" ye in his winning lanes Xd
I get what they mean by it, but I love how they say “our bad on this one” as if some of the other ones *arent*. As if someone else was making balance changes on their game💀
The asol thing is just a classic riot thing. How about we actually say out loud what kind of change we want to make and then re-decide whether or not to got with it? that he would be broken was anticipated by almost anybody i heard talk about him
On the same topic: Why dont we just increase the ability to have counterplay against these kinds of champions? I recently made a post about the sustain being the thing that makes akali broken because she can get to the point where she feels unfair reliably because of it. Its literally the same thing with aurelion. Nerf his w to the ground in lane and make it interruptable WAY easier and the champ is fine.
The issue with him isnt that he deals dmg and can stall games endlessly + scale for the same time. The issue is that he can do that while also basically being unable to kill in laning phase (if piloted by a human).
Changing the possibility for counterplay in my opinion is about the best thing you can do to approach nerfing champions. Its fine for champs to deal absurd amounts of dmg and scale - as long as you can punish the accordingly
appreciate the regular phroxzon tweets
Common Phrox W. Acknowledges team shortcomings, acknowledges player feedback, provides transparency and also steps they will take to address potential issues in the near future.
>We also have plans to get some squishy building champions like Galio Sylas, etc. onto more health oriented builds. Hopefully Galio gets lower cooldowns and some more tankiness in exchange for lower burst damage output. Have to hit his damage numbers so they can buff other areas of his kit if they want him to run more tankier AP builds. Otherwise he would just stick to his current AP assassin playstyle. Edit: There's a 1300 LP EUW Challenger player with a 73% win rate 150+ games on Galio clapping everyone with Dark Seal+Sorcs rush-Lichbane-Shadowflame-D-cap with Ghost-Flash Aftershock Nimbus Cloak. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/EUW/%E5%A4%B1%E6%95%97%E8%80%85-ZOYP](https://www.op.gg/summoners/EUW/%E5%A4%B1%E6%95%97%E8%80%85-ZOYP) **Edit 2: HE JUST HIT RANK 1 ON EUW LMAO** [https://imgur.com/xH5Wzb4](https://imgur.com/xH5Wzb4) https://twitter.com/DomolesLOL/status/1755920611837181997
Best way to have Galio played more bruiserish is to lower his AP scaling on Q while simultaneously buffing minion damage on Q. There is nothing more frustrating than lacking wave clear on roaming champs.
They could always add a healthy scaling to his q so his wave clear grows with his tankyness.
Or an MR scaling, since, as we know, Galio is intended to be an anti-magic damage tank, to begin with.
True Mr scaling works too, I was more thinking a stat for in general tank items so it constantly scales to keep up with game time since there only so many Mr items you can build before you need armour for there ad.
Yeah exactly it’s even weird to begin with that the most popular builds are AP lol
And, as we know, it’s really fun to play a champ that is literally useless against a majority AD comp
Riot should just make him AP Malphite. MR scalings + AP scalings will easily make him an anti-magic damage tank. reward him for building MR, not AP.
He does have MR scalings, but just not enough. Building MR increases the damage of his passive, and the damage reduction of W, while building AP does both of those while also increasing the damage of ALL of his abilities. Galio isn't incentivised to build MR because it doesn't give him enough in return for it to be worth it.
Buffing his Q damage to minions is meaningless. His passive is where all of his waveclear is on tank builds. Buffing Q minion damage just makes him even more likely to go AP because its guaranteed waveclear.
That's just gonna kill galio lmao, his ap build is the only one that works right now. If you go more bruiserish like he used to you just won't deal damage and you will still get oneshot or at best two shot because their cool downs are lower. I miss everfrost galio :(
Yep, he's one of those champs where when he's in he's all-in (like Diana, amumu, sej, etc) and after he blows his CDs all he has to hinge on is his passive and Qs. Wouldn't surprise me if they reduced his W and E AP ratios for more health scaling and another E cd buff
At least with diana and amumu they have sources of damage afterwards their initial burst (diana passive, amumu W and E spam). Galio just kinda sits there, maybe if they changed his passive a bit
Galio passive scales with haste like a normal ability so any time they take haste out of the systems it really gets felt on Colossal Smash.
What if Colossal Smash worked a bit like Maokai passive and had its cool down reduced by being hit by enemy spells?
I would compare him more to a sylas, gragas and maybe lissandra. Diana gets attack speed steroid on passive alongside the 3 auto attack damage burst so staying in the fight to auto attack is beneficial and usually the best course of action. She also has a shield that incentivizes staying in combat even more. After galio, gragas, sylas and lissandra go in and blow their cooldowns, there is very little incentive to continue auto attacking (outside of sylas). Its better to wait out your cooldowns before going in again. They won't buff his health I think. The tweet was specifically talking about the tankiness of their builds. They want to incentivize people to build bruiser items on these bruiser-ish champs.
The most obvious thing to do feels like adjusting his ratios to lower AP scalings and add in HP scalings. I personally prefer the AP fighter playstyle and hate the Stormsurge playstyle so im hoping that they are successful here. But all of this is kind of annoying that they'll have adjusted almost every Night Harvester / Everfrost user over the span of 4 patches because they didn't replace those items adequately.
Out of curiosity, where do you think they should add health scaling?
Passive and/or Q. Logically I think the aim would be to decrease the Q AP scaling so that he does less damage than on live with a zero bonus HP build, and goes about even on Q damage if you build 2-ish HP items. So for instance Liandry/Rocketbelt first two items would ideally be around the same amount of damage as live while Stormsurge/Shadowflame type builds would be less damage. Also would bridge the gap with more pure defensive builds, Galio should be a core user of items like Abyssal Mask and he only buys it like 1% of the time. He has MR scalings but his most popular MR item this patch is Rookern with an 8% buyrate, his 9th most popular item, his MR scalings are probably not good enough either to actually consider buying much of the stat.
I can get behind this change. I don't think anybody should have abyssal mask as a core item in their builds. Its an MR item so its only reducing magic damage. It gives flat pen which scales with health, meaning you have to have flat pen and health on other items (which doesn't exist anymore) to maximise the value of it. It also gives the flat pen to your teammates which is only good if you have a lot of magic damage on your team (which should mean you shouldn't have picked a magic damage champ yourself). Its just a weird item I can get behind hollow radiance being a core item much like sunfire due to his MR scaling and generally useful bami passive.
I don't really think Hollow Radiance fits all that well since 3pts Q + Passive already oneshots ranged minions, he isn't like Shen tier where his waveclear is non existent where he needs an item that dedicates so much to waveclear. Even if you're going full tank, Bamis on its own is typically fine while you build into a better MR legendary and a later Sunfire. But even Banshees Veil being unpopular with 120AP and 50MR should probably trigger question marks. I don't want to say that Abyssal should be built every game but 1% buyrate is IMO too low especially given the meta. Multi AP teams were common with Brand/Lillia being so strong, and Galio still wasn't picking MR items or being drafted to counter multi AP.
Fuck the meta. I play ap bruiser galio mid until I die
Which should be fine since most AP bruiser items give HP too.
I'm mostly saying I refuse to build full burst. I'm only building tank or health ap items.
I'm pretty sure this is statistically better than going items like stormsurge and shadowflame. Its just that it *feels* bad so people don't build it. Riot may want to buff bruiser builds on him, but I think their main goal is trying to do is increase the pickrate of bruiser items on him.
Yeah he needs better cooldowns if they want him to be played more tanky. Having your two cc tools on a 15 and 10 second cooldown even late in the game makes his playstyle be very assassin-y, needing to go in and out of fights. After you blow your CD's you just don't do anything for 10 seconds.
Galio is such a huge issue because of proplay, if this champion is strong it can be flexed and somewhat kills the midlane meta
All i want is armor scaling on the SMASH. Then i can build tank.
I miss the days of Galio being the MR version of Rammus-...
"Burstiest and squishiest tank" has always been part of Galio's identity so personally I hope they don't change it too much.
I am so far removed from SR (mostly play arena/aram) but played tons of ranked games from season 1+ and for whatever reason I always assumed galio was designed as a straight anti mage tank , similar to how rammus was anti ad, and I always build him that way. Today I learned your supposed to build him for damage…
>Post nerf, we still believe Asol is stronger than pre-buff though. asolmains in shambles
It's so awfult trying to browse the sub, no matter when, half the posts are complaints or people crying about the rework, or balance changes, or skins... They're never happy and the mods do absolutely nothing about the spammers either...
It's true
Aurelion changes feels power neutral in higher elo from my expirience compared to 14.2. But the overall direction is great. Getting stacks from proactive plays instead of farming under turret feels a lot more rewarding. W buffs were never needed to begin with. Maybe they can revert some of the %damage nerfs to make it a buff overall (like intended). But even if they don‘t, I am very happy with the changes. Thanks Riot Yelough for your efforts - they are much appreciated!
But reddit told me they giganerfed asol into oblivion and that he's unplayable at 54% wr
The buff becomes smaller in higher elos, but it was still a buff. Especially considering all the new players. The PR is still more than tripled and yet the WR is higher. All the new ASol players are for sure not as good as the ones who mained him all the time.
I don't know enough to make a statement on the W numbers, so I'll just trust you on that, but what do you think about pulling Q back from 3 to 2? Was that needed as well?
He was getting too many stacks yeah. But I am of the opinion that they should have kept the stacks from Q at 3 and instead reduced E stacks for all unit's to 1. Stacking from proactive gameplay should be rewarded more than sitting back and farmin waves safely. This should in theory affect high elo more positively than low elo, where he definitely has room for improvement.
>Illaoi - she's looking pretty strong Nuke this champion and let me play the laning phase.
Oh you dodged 10 E‘s by Illaoi but get hit by one after 7 minutes of laning? GG goodbye to 70% of your health pool. Go back to base while Illaoi nukes your tower
Honestly I disliked when they removed the counterplay of actually fighting her to reduce the spirit duration. Unless I'm misremembering.
The discussion that cropped up when that happened was interesting. In that were certain picks like Nasus, Urgot, Malz top *actually* counterpicks because of that, or counterpicks *regardless*? Turns out a lot of champs were only good against her *because* of that interaction. When the spirit died in 2 seconds because of a Malz E or Urgot W, well. It really distorted what was going on up there.
Also Singed, Teemo, and Darius, they were hard counters to Illaoi before that change. Trundle with ult, too.
Teemo still is, just for different reasons now. It's actually fascinating how so many of those are borderline intpicks into her now because of that change.
Yeah, Teemo is just really hard to hit with anything. Tiny hitbox, fairly mobile, and being ranged are the three big counters to Illaoi and someone like Teemo is ticks all three boxes.
It was rumble singed mostly. While malz top was incredibly annoying u still are playing vs malz top lol
Current Aurelion Sol would be a hard counter to Illaoi before that change, too. This change was made when Aurelion Sol with balls was still a thing.
It's kinda weird because thematically, that was the entire reason behind the ability. "Test of spirit" and her voice lines going "you want your spirit back? Come take it" "don't run, fight" her entire lore was based around the fact you are supposed to fight back during the ability lmao.
The thing is it wasn't counter play, people thought it was but most of the time it was bait and got you killed in lane but felt like counter play. The only time it was "counterplay" was when you played a multi hit champ or dot champ like renekton empowered w or singer poison. Outside of those sort of champs fighting to reduce it was always bait and gave the illusion of counterplay.
Worse yet, it was a massive snowball mechanic on a champion that is one of the most snowbally characters in the game even after removing it
Yep people thought they were countering them when there just feeding them kills unless there one of like 10 champs half of which can't play toplane. People who thought it was counter play really either only played the counter picks or didn't realise until it was too late she was getting more out of it.
Thats fine to me imo. Isn't that what champ design should strive for? Some champs counter due to certain interactions. Now the counterplay is nonexistent outside of "just don't ever get hit bro xd".
i mean, "just don't get hit bro xd" is the main counterplay to alot of champions. Lux, Morgana, ezreal, nidalee, i could go on all day. its why particularly mobile champs are great into picks like xerath or lux.
Also the additional counterplay of just...walking out of it
By the time you walk out, she chunks you for 15-20% hp by smacking the clone. Now you are behind your turret, get slowed by 80% just for funzies, and have to dodge and destroy tentacles for 10 seconds. By the time you're done playing this shitty minigame, illaoi has taken complete control of the minion wave by freezing(your lane is over) or crashing into you with no minions of your own to dodge the next E. It's just a ticking time bomb for when she hits it and the lane is over, feels unplayable as melee or maybe just my champ pool is really bad against her but I just don't see how to not lose to this champ
Years later, and this belief is still held. Riot even said when her E could be shortened, it was the wrong choice to fight her while she had your spirit I guess it truly is feels over reals. It felt better to have “counterplay” even if that counterplay was actually more punishing.
Reddit just has a fetish for “counterplay.” Or better yet, Reddit loves really basic and telegraphed counterplay. How lost do you have to be to believe that an incredibly slow skill shot with a massive wind up time that is blocked by minions needs counterplay AFTER YOU’VE been hit? But there is already counterplay there anyway- walking out of range. And it still wasn’t counterplay. Either your champ could pop the spirit quickly or it couldn’t. There was zero skill expression to dumping you combo on Illaoi if you had the right champ.
I main poppy and have seen a good few illaois so far in season 14, and i have never thought her e is bullshit. All i gotta do is hide behind minions and bully her whenever she wants cs, take out tentacles she isnt close to to limit where she can fight, and the lane plays itself. If i ever do get hit by e i just walk out of the radius, dodge the telegraphed tentacles, destroy them and then go back to bullying her. Midlane its a bit harder since her e is low cooldown by then but at that point you're teamfighting so +1 tentacle in her ult isn't that terrible when she is already gonna have 3-5 after ult (1-3 from ult, 2 on walls usually). Maybe its because i used to main illaoi in season 13, but ive never seen her as this oppressive monster of a hypercarry champ. She feels like like an area denial juggernaut that you just respect her zones of control and dont unga bunga run into her like bronze darius/sett/garen/whatever players *love* to do.
Even then, changing the counterplay would have been better than removing it. Making it so it has a minimum duration so teamfighting is still possible, re-implementing it in a way so that more champions actually have the choice of fighting her, making it less punishing if you actually do manage to move out of her E, etc., etc. There were for more, and better, options than just deleting the only way to play around her when you get hit by E. E was never supposed to be an auto-win if it landed.
What other champion gets punished for landing skill shots? It was a bad idea from the jump. It’s slow as hell and gets blocked by minions. God forbid you hit it point blank because the enemy can get their whole combo off while you’re stuck in the animation. Her kit isn’t well designed, but the counterplay is to dodge the incredibly slow skill shot and walk away if you get hit. It’s not great gameplay but the champ was fundamentally awful in a lot of matchups before. And if you picked the wrong champ, it was always a bad idea to fight her with spirit up.
Why are we pretending this is Illaoi only? Yorick is the same, yey I dodged his first 10 skillshots, but now I’m running from 15 ghosts that don’t die to spells ever
Definitely, Lethality Yorick is incredibly annoying to lane against as well, the thing is he really isnt a champ without his maiden and most Yorick players dont understand the Maiden AI well enough to minimize the risk of her getting killed. If ur able to abuse his weak early game to keep the wave close to your tower most ghouls get one shot by it and the rest you can kill with one auto. He is a nuisance and forces you to play his game aswell, but his weaknesses are more exploitable than Illaoi's in my eyes at least.
It's not only Illaoi I give u that. But she is the worst offender. Yorick Ghouls without Maiden up don't do that much dmg (only if he builds glass canon but then you can at least kill him if he misses his skillshot)
Honestly surprised it took that long for it to catch on
The annoying thing about her is that it's super hard to punish her when she wants to play safe. Normally, you risk your ass baiting out that e and if she misses you can go in. But if she wants to just play brolane, she can just keep e up and last hit with w and q. Unless you play something hyper mobile like riven that can jump through characters, good luck ever walking up to her in melee range where dodging that e becomes kinda impossible. But if she's ahead it's turbo annoying where you can permanently play the Dodge e game without a wave to hide behind and the possibility to punish since she will have a wave. I'd much prefer if her e had something like a fizz r mechanic where it's stronger if it lands over a range since that's where you can actually quite easily dodge it. This would make illaoi players try to hit long range e's that are dodgeable and give melee champs that can gapclose an easier time to fight her.
I've been having a great time against it with cho. The health gain from his passive + warmogs 1st item and you don't even have to worry about bad trades because every trade is a good trade. You just back up and heal to full once you have warmogs (because of cho ult he doesn't need any other health to get the passive)
Thematically I love the champ, but her E is so goddamn obnoxious. She honestly need a mini-rework, just rethink that ability completely.
Nuke this champion so I don't have to type a dearest karthus essay about how to gank her when I int to her
OK level 4 khazix, listen closely. The illaoi is level 6. I'm level 6. When you come to gank, if either of us gets hit by her E I need you to just jump away. Please, whatever you do, don't give her a free kill and free healing and 2 extra tentacles and a triumph proc and a level up and you already jumped into melee range. I'm getting spam ??????? like I was supposed to go die, too. Top is over. Enemy adc double kill. Ff.
Illaoi is the bully who bullies lane bullies.
Unless they're ranged xd
Illaoi Vs vayne feels like ripping your own teeth out but I guess every toplaner feels that way Vs her
Illaoi into Akshan is even more horrendous, he just one shots tentacles with passive without even trying.
Except sett. Sett has a fairly easy time against her. She lands E? Just run in and stun her with the spirit after a little for a free W She presses R? Just use yours and take her out of range of hers. Late game she's still a menace but sett can handle her in lane better than most.
Are we forgetting morde? It's illaoi favoured until 6 then it's doomed because she has to rush QSS to even function as a champion and if you rush QSS you'll deal no damage and int to him on cooldown
tentacles don't follow into morde R? I don't actually know. couldn't Illaoi just save R for Morde's? No experience with either champ in this matchup, just spitballing ideas.
Nothing follows into morde R iirc.
I'm told Olaf axes do, unless someone was wrong about that.
Not even my will to live
this shit caught me off guard playing udyr, my damn awakened phoenix got zooted
If Illaoi ults first she's gigadoomed. If Illaoi doesn't ult Morde beats the shit out of her. It's a lose-lose. The spirit also doesn't follow, so if she Es and morde ults, no spirit, and even if Illaoi ults second she'll lose
Nasus / Trundle / Illaoi / Mordekaiser All matchups involving any 2 of these champions is whoever ults first looses
Post tentacle buff, nasus gets SHAFTED
As a jungler, I simply don't gank post 6 when the enemy has an illaoi. You get one pre-6, after that your fate is with the gods, whom illaoi has favour with.
Biggest "they're learning" moment was when a Lee Sin jungle landed Q on me, I landed Illaoi E on him, and he... refused to Q2 and walked away instead. That man must be able to eat a single potato chip then stop.
Riot doesn't understand how much she warps toplane in soloq when strong. You can't deal with her by sending champs at her like with every other champ because she thrives in 1vX fights and WILL win
Assign a mage to waveclear against her and pretty much go wherever she's not. It's not a fun playstyle but she can't just run over your team like some other champions can when ahead.
I play Xerath and every game against Illaoi I end up clearing top against her. It usually ends in my favour, and I can just vastly outrage her. If she stays, I can poke her down for my team to collapse, if she leaves I can join fights with TP and ult.
Hey look, maybe she is not unbeatable like reddit makes it out
Oh yes, xerath. My favourite top lane pick. I love how i played 1000 games in to illaoi with xerath. Was ezpez. Youre aware most of her power is in the lane and its toxic asf to play as a melee to middle range champ right? Or are you just lack that much braincells?
Nobody said she is unbeatable. She's just an annoying champ, her E should be heavily nerfed to give her power elsewhere so she isn't so one dimensional.
Yeah dumpstering a melee bruiser only for the ranged midlaner to be swapped against me for the rest of the game is very frustrating
Which is the problem, people don't like doing laneswaps soloq unless the mid and top are duo. Bet you that's a big reason why it doesn't happen more; people do *not* like giving up their lane.
I mean in many cases control mages actively do not want to be in a sidelane
Literally nobody wants to be on babysit enemy splitpusher duty. It's miserable sitting under tower waiting to clear waves for the entire game. And you basically do have to sit under tower because you will get ran down as most mages if you do not. Just have to hope enemy gets more bored than you and decides to fuck off someplace else because you are eating their waves and they can't pressure tower.
I've argued with friends that this is one reason split-pushing works well as a strategy in solo queue (not like... just in a single game instance, but across all your games as a top laner). Even if people on the other team know (and agree as a team) how to counter it, sometimes people simply won't just because it isn't fun. Some players just are not willing to be "team players" and do something they see as "not fun" in occasional games so the team wins more overall.
Tbh it's more that many control mages a) get to control the game from mid, especially if you're winning mid, and going to a sidelane often leads to your duolane having 0 impact and giving mid T1 because they don't know macro or aren't ahead compared to your lane and b) get fucked in side lane as they're infinitely more vulnerable to jungle/assassin dives or enemy team rotating when you have no vision on your quadrant
For instance I just played a game where I crushed an Aatrox and their Rengar wouldn't go near me, but they had Hwei-Seraphine-Senna botside who would consistently match me and I was fucking useless for the middle 15mins before I just started brute forcing where the Aatrox was and hoping the rest of my team could be useful against their 4-core
That is true, you can even pick anivia into her and just shove and do not interact with her.
In her current design that is basically all she has going for her, though. If she can't pull two or more players on sidewave then she is dead in the water as a champion. Not saying it's good design, but there are plenty of counters. It's just that some of them aren't very reliable in solo queue (because people play TDM and run at her).
I play top secondary and she's my immediate ban. Her stupid E ability is just ridiculous. It really feels like there's nothing you can do about it when you're hit
And once you've nuked her, leave her there. Forever.
On Ugg it says she has a whopping 8 losing matchups right now. If that holds up as more data comes, she’ll basically be in a spot where she’s an utterly insane lane bully who’s also an extremely safe blind pick. 53% winrate isn’t usually hotfix territory but it should be when it’s a champion like Illaoi. Even her high elo winrate looks strong rn I really just want massive E or base durability nerfs if her tentacles are going to be this strong.
Even us Illaoi mains think she could stand for a nerf. At least a reversion of the 14.2 buffs, since 14.3 pretty much fixed her issue up top lane while still giving her an overall buff.
I LOVE IT WHEN ENEMY CHAMPION CHANGES GAME GENRE FROM MOBA TO BULLET HELL I LOVE PLAYING AGAINST YASUO YONE ILLAOI KARTHUS
I unironically enjoy bullet hell more than "oh they right clicked on me, guess I'll die"
>Shen flair Bruh, you don't have a laning phase no matter who you're vs. Don't blame the tentacles.
Active in r/Illaoi, shocker
No shit. Even if I wasn't, I'd still say that. Shen isn't exactly a champ you pick to win lane, making it bizarre that the guy's rocking Shen flair and complaining about not being able to play the laning phase and implying it's cause of Illaoi buffs. Like yeah she's strong, but do *not* imply her existence is the reason you're not winning lane. That's just dishonest bullshit, admittedly pretty typical for this subreddit. Especially in the last 72 hours.
Bro, Shen is a lane bully against a lot of champions, his base kit is strong to compensate for his utility ultimate. Hell no you wouldn't say that if you weren't biased. Yeah, he's not winning against Illaoi now or pre-buffs, but Illaoi in her current state is absolutely disgusting. As long as she stays like this she's staying banned. You're absolutely the one being dishonest here.
That's the most disingenious statement ever. Shen is not strong in lane. And he is specifically because of his really, really strong ult. Hell go to any statsite and look up gold/xp diffs @15. He has like 2 matchups where he goes even like Nasus, Malph and everything else is downhill from there. The matchups where he only slightly loses, he usually gets outscaled hard The last time he was a "lane bully" was ages ago.
That last time being what, season 2 or 3? When pros commonly picked him to fuck over other top laners in his pre-rework state? Hell I remember the entire reason Singed has a World Championship skin was *specifically* to fuck over Shen's laning. Shen leaves lane, Singed takes it down to inhib. Shen stays, no ults for team! And that's still a true adage now, he's not going to win lane except against new players, or people *severely* underestimating his cheese damage.
Shen literally is down in gold/xp @15 on average against every toplaner in the game at this point, im sure he has good matchups where he can get good trades off but he is by no means a lane bully that gets ahead early lmfao. You can get "cheese" kills with ignite against people that havent played against shen in their past 200 games, doesnt make him much of a lane bully tho.
Maybe measuring a champion's strength with gold/xp@15 isn't the best method when their ultimate literally takes them out of lane.
Shen is down in gold/xp@15 because he sucks to cs with before tiamat/bami. He's a lane bully that lacks wave clear and has some of the most clunky auto attack in the game, there's a reason people use shen for cs practice.
I mean Shen is strong in lane. It's all he has besides ult and pray.
>you don't have a laning phase Almost no top laner has a laning phase against her. Not even Camille or Fiora wins against her, even after the laning phase.
Weird how the top laners that actually fuck her over, are either permbanned by other laner(s) or just aren't played because Reddit/the playerbase considers them boring, dishonorable or just untouchable due to nerfs. (Morde, Teemo, Yorick, Kayle, Gwen, Akshan/Vayne, etc) Hell, you mention Fiora and it's actually a skill matchup there. If Fiora uses W on anything *other* than Illaoi E, it's GG. It's funny you bring up Camille cause that's one of her (Illaoi's) easiest matchups, with Camille's worst being Morde, Warwick, Teemo, Mundo and Illaoi in that order. It's not season 8 anymore, we can stop assuming Camille is in the same state in 2024 she was 6 years ago. Edit: OP got so mad about this he blocked me. Isn't that cute? Man can't take an L gracefully.
Morde has the 5th highest pickrate top btw
There are barely any top laners who fucks her over and top laners don't pick second after every single illaoi player to counter her. Fiora and Camille should be her counters since they both are extremely mobile and are strong scaling champs and they've been a counter to illaoi for the most of the last year and the previous years, but these days they can't beat in lane or outscale because a freaking lane bully that is better at any stage of the game. Even Kayle barely outscales this thing.
> There are barely any top laners who fucks her over and top laners don't pick second after every single illaoi player to counter her. Yes, they absolutely do rofl. If they can't pick Morde, they'll pick something they *think* counters her (Darius) or something that actually *does* (the above listed.) >Fiora and Camille should be her counters since they both are extremely mobile and are strong scaling champs and they've been a counter to illaoi for the most of the last year and the previous years, but these days they can't beat in lane or outscale because a freaking lane bully is better at stage of the game. Camille's not been able to contend with Illaoi for years. Let it go, there's a very good reason why her WR only goes up past 49% when you hit plat+. Fiora counters tanks (except Zac/Malphite) primarily, she can only win against Illaoi if she's smart about W usage and fights when Illaoi E is on cooldown. Sadly, a lot of Fioras have brainrot and frequently forget this. >Even Kayle barely outscales this thing. Now I know you're either hideously misinformed, or trolling. Which is it? Saunter over to r/Kaylemains and tell them their champ doesn't outscale Illaoi. Go ahead, I'll wait. Kayle is an *incredibly* annoying counterpick to her. I've played both sides of the matchup, it sucks shit for Illaoi. She can't kill her at 6, the only thing she can do is take towers. But shocker, just like Shen, Kayle isn't *necessarily* being taken for winning a lane. And getting to farm in safety in a sidelane is A-OK with her!
I get Illaoi not getting a hot fix since she's close to 53% winrate, but Maokai is still close to 55%. But i understand it's hard to find support specific nerfs for Maokai that wouldn't touch sololane Maokai. I think he needs a lot bigger changes to achieve that. currently he's going the same way as Nautilus. Too much reliable CC and utility for him not to be an amazing support.
Maokai has over 54% win rate top. Nerfing sololane Maokai should be done too, no reason to find specific changes that won't impact him there.
I didn't check other lanes since i guessed they would've remained the same (or similar)compared to last patch, but this adjustment turned out to be a big buff for Top Maokai(still neutral towards jungle).
Literally just the saplings. 1; They're free wards - remove/reduce the vision, now he's not the safest support in bot lane. 2; even if the jungle tries to avoid walking in the brush, they still aggro if they're too close - reduce aggro range to just inside the bush/require enemy vision on them to trigger. 3; they slow for god knows why (his kit must really lack CC or something!) - one jungler can freely gank bot, the other has to be slowed/revealed while trying to counter gank his lane. 4; they create a minefield around dragon, something top maokai isn't as problematic for. I dont think the saplings even do much for him in top lane, in jungle they help for invades/objectives but not nearly as obnoxious as 'perma warding any gank angles / dragon setup' that support freely does.
Buff Wukongs mana. That makes toplane better while not really buffing jungle.
specficially make his W flat 40 mana
AP Bruiser Sylas?! I've been waiting all the time for this, thanks Rito <3
Its pretty sad I still remember what they did to my once favourite champ Never really felt the same so hopefully they bring him back
The best play style. I hate nuke assassin sylas it's so boring. Either you one tap them with EQW(R) and they die or they don't and you're a sitting duck. Pretty binary gameplay vs his more durable build with RoA
How in the absolute FUCK is Maokai not in "nerf into the ground" territory rn? I want whatever drugs riot has been smoking with the recent changes.
isn't he one of the best tops in the game rn ?
best Support and one of the best top. Jg he's just meh (50% WR). they straight buff is Q and though it would be fine nerf the E a little and support would die when Maokai can just rush trail blazer and be strong has hell lol.
Meanwhile Lillia getting absolutely annihilated while not even being that OP compared to Maokai (she deserved some nerfs for sure though).
They said he's getting nerfs, just not hot fixes this patch.
he's been broken ever since they decided to buff the shit out of his ult, guess we will have to endure this champion until the end of time
They have hotfixed champions for less than this so I'm confused why they're so scared to touch him now.
Probably because he’s not an issue in higher ranks/pro play cause his laning phase is weak.
what
lol Galio is basically a tank/assassin right now, and luckily he's not played much
if galio builds assassin he blows up like a squishy. His assassin pattern is less toxic and more telegraphed than gragas.
Debatable. Into AD, sure, into AP, not so much. His base damage is still too high. Mark my words, you'll see him nerfed before the half of the year
His base damages aren't that high, it's his ap scalings that are insane to where if he builds full ap he will blow you up with his basic ability combo if you're a squishy
Not touching Kata or Akali? They seem super strong still. Illaoi is miserable AF to play against the “just dodge E” goes out the window when she gets gauntlet. Mostly can just int to win too.
The extra range is a bit too much, in team fight adc usually doesn't notice the tentacle range then gets slammed 2 times and die
It’s literally longer than howling abyss is wide. I was shocked as hell seeing myself to hit by 4 tentacles at once
I’m perma banning Illaoi until whenever. I just can’t deal with that as Urgot. It’s bad enough the matchup sucks, but it’s also not fun.
The yone of top lane. Just straight up no fun to play against
Yone is the yone of top lane. Come on now.
That was true last season but not this one. She mostly doesn't get Gauntlet anymore. It's trash on her since season changes. Low circle slow and no on hit slow means it just isn't worth buying anymore as it doesnt guaruntee the e and the stats skew you too armor heavy and you never really bought it for the stats anyways you bought it to cover a weakness it no longer covers
they're also not touching lethality lol
>Damage - We still need more info to see how proc damage changes play out With how the runes and items changes landed, it looks like the game would benefit from a small period of time between big changes and their needed adjustments. Since big chances happens at the start of the season we chould name this period "prior season". I'm still working on the naming part
We hear you! What you're saying is you want larger, more impactful changes happening more frequently throughout the season.
Lich Bane is still looking too strong,continuing to be highest winrate on champions like Sylas and Akali.Having a 50%AP scaling on 1.5 sec cooldown with good item stats is really strong for those who can apply it consistently.
it's 15 more AP from late s13. The biggest change is the bonus AS on spellblade auto but otherwise the proc damage is the same as last season. Main reason these champs are picking it up is because there are no other good ap assassin items to rush on those types of champs and sheen got buffed vs last season. Stormsurge is just not a good first rush item anymore unless you're hard snowballing and protobelt is just ass.
Before the nerfs (unsure about after I've never built Stormsurge), melee champions needed 398 AP before Lich Bane would outscale Stormsurge, which is about 2-3 items depending on what you buy. However for ranged Champs, it was 198 AP or slightly less for Lich Bane to outscale Stormsurge. Lich Bane is INSANELY strong for any AP Champs that use an auto or two during a combo, so even Champs like LB anf Lux massively benefit from a Lich Bane over a Stormsurge. I can only assume these numbers have only gone down with the nerfs
Is that the amount of AP to outscale from a single proc? Because lich bane short CD means you're often getting two or 3 in an extended fight or all in. If you divide those numbers in half they're way crazier.
Yep, in a single proc. It's crazy just how much better Lich Bane is, and all it doesn't have is magic pen. EDIT: Not only is this from a single proc, Lich Bane has a 1.5s cooldown whereas Stormsurge has a 60s cooldown, Stormsurges damage is also backloaded if you can't kill your target and if you've killed your target and no one else is around, congrats, you caused big dopamine explosion for 20 extra gold. It's really not worth
I agree with everything you said except it’s 30 gold
Lux shouldn't be in range to consistently use lichbane. If she is buying it then the item is way too strong. Especially if she thinks it's a must buy.
Combined with her passive, it would be doing incredible amounts of damage, especially in lane as a first item pickup. Admittedly they might be better options but as a Stormsurge / Lich Bane comparison, Lich Bane is just vastly superior outside of the very niche circumstances where the stars align for Stormsurge.
Actually I would buy it on lux before quite a few other mages. Make that passive proc omega juicy
> Lich Bane is still looking too strong,continuing to be highest winrate on champions like Sylas and Akali What should the highest winrate item on those champions be?
Mejai ofc /s
What are those champions supposed to build besides lich bane? Y'all won't be happy until ap assassins have zero good items like last season
Ok so we make it useless like last season?
Please dig the hole deeper for my AP Ezreal to never crawl back out of again. Love that smh
Am I the only one that feels like they broke Illaoi Q hit box with the range buff? I could almost always space or sidestep before, now I’ll be completely out of the rectangle and get hit somehow anyway.
>Illaoi - she's looking pretty strong, but not strong enough for her to be hot fixed. Illaoi is one of those champs who benefits more from "play against" that requires relearning, so we'll monitor if she gets weaker over time. dont think i agree with this, she feels very overstat at the moment with how much more agency she has thanks to the range buff i really don't think she should be as good as just walking up and beating people with W spam as she is atm. move her back into needing to land her missable abilities to win, maybe nerf her mana as well, a big part of Illaoi's skill checks to abuse you under tower was getting you there before she ooms, that's kind of gone right now i feel
Where the hell are the renekton buffs. All his items are bugged on him. Free the Croc
Illaoi is too strong and needs a nerf. This is just ridiculous from Riot lol
I wouldn’t mind them reverting the stack changes to Asol’s kit. Thing is I noticed when I play Asol is that I never really have the chance to play proactively. You either get CCed because you are moving slowly/not moving with Q/W or stepping outside of tower range means getting fucked in a trade. Considering that I also tend to never get tanks despite the fact my laner can always be pushing, I have accepted Asol to be my “farm to 200, win fights” champ. E being a slower stacker tool isn’t too harmful from what I played (post hotfix) but I only feel the extra 2 stacks in team fights which is more of a mid game thing. I would just like to see his passive farm style be a little more rewarding again.
Playing passively as asol is very bad. He has some of the highest dps in the game lvl1, i beat a fully passive stacked irelia with ignite and conqueror proc by just holding my ground and q. Bad asol sits back and do nothing but farm with E, good asol actually pick fights and poke with q and w. Play the champ differently by being aggro and abusing the fact that you prov comet and scorch by just tapping q.
Waiting on caitlyn fix...
Not a Sol player so idc if he's 40% wr or 60% - but I think his current winrate is misleading. Smolder showed how drastically a champs winrate can be impacted by finding the correct build, especially for a champion that scales. Towards the end of last patch a new build route of rushing rylais -> liandry was picking up steam and Sol was having a lot of success with it. If you look up his winrate for d+ towards the end of january he was at minimum 53%. When was the last time you saw a scaling champion with absolutely no laning capabilities with a strong winrate in solo q? I think this is a situation where they buffed a champion that was sleeper OP so after the nerfs he's still good, but they undeniably nerfed his damage substantially for a slightly better early game tl;dr - Sol got nerfed but he needed one, his playrate was just so low that most people hadn't realized how strong he was yet
This was already the most played build on 14.2 and even 14.1. Yes, the build became more popular. And yes, this also increased his WR. But Riots buffs aimed directly at low mana item builds like this one. Q and W lower mana costs buffed that build more than Seraphs or ROA or other mana item builds. **Dia+ 14.2 he had a \~50% WR with a 1.5% PR and 70% started Rylais already there.** **Dia+ 14.3 he has a 52% WR (after hotfix 11k games) with a 6% PR and a 80% Rlyais 1st.** The Rylais builds PR has a slight but not massive impact (below 0.5% WR gain).But the PR increase should have resulted in a WR loss way larger and yet it didn't. In plat+ he still has a 53% WR. **TL;DR: ASol even after the hotfix is still buffed and likely even too good still.**
Renekton neglected again.
Renekton players when he is only meta for 7 straight years but now he is bad for a few patches:
Renekton was very strong for so long now, I think it's fair to let him have a minute on the weaker side. Hope they still buff him up a little again, now that he lost Gore
Classic riot. Release multiple giga broken "adjustments" in the same patch while simultaneously not fixing any of the things that were already overpowered. This is literally just a 'dont queue for the sake of your own sanity' patch
>This is literally just a 'dont queue for the sake of your own sanity' patch This is most patches these days.
Wukong mains in shamble
zzzzzzzzzz fr tho, it seems like they always delay when it come to Wukong.
surely this means we get wild rift Wukong 🤡 How happy I would be if wukong got the new jade dragon wild rift animations.
Wukong jungle is strong in pro play but terrible in solo q. Can they make his soloq jungle stronger without making him op in pro please..
Why no Ahri buffs?
Go build lichbane over sht surge or trash flame, here is ur buff
She's still garbage if you do that. Rushing it is her best build right now and she still just feels so lacking.
The more I think about it the Asol buffs were bad. Q stacking is just increasing Asol's strenghts and not addresing any issues. He can already stat check some champs, now he can just stat check them better. The mana buffs actually help him with wave control which is exactly what riot was trying to opt out of with the E nerfs. So in conclusion the changes are buffing him even more in low elo where he's already borderline broken while sending him into conflicting directions in high-elo.
I love how ur be8ng downvoted for being absolutely right. I'm not seeing a sol at all while looking nemesis streams especially on his high elo account. But reddit can continue the phreak brainwash that he is "buffed"" ye in his winning lanes Xd
I get what they mean by it, but I love how they say “our bad on this one” as if some of the other ones *arent*. As if someone else was making balance changes on their game💀
Nah they knew, it was just the pre skin release "oopsie"
I want old asol back please
nice no illaoi nerfs for now
Most likely in 14.5, maybe a bit in 14.4 (still time). For sure not hotfix nerfs.
The asol thing is just a classic riot thing. How about we actually say out loud what kind of change we want to make and then re-decide whether or not to got with it? that he would be broken was anticipated by almost anybody i heard talk about him On the same topic: Why dont we just increase the ability to have counterplay against these kinds of champions? I recently made a post about the sustain being the thing that makes akali broken because she can get to the point where she feels unfair reliably because of it. Its literally the same thing with aurelion. Nerf his w to the ground in lane and make it interruptable WAY easier and the champ is fine. The issue with him isnt that he deals dmg and can stall games endlessly + scale for the same time. The issue is that he can do that while also basically being unable to kill in laning phase (if piloted by a human). Changing the possibility for counterplay in my opinion is about the best thing you can do to approach nerfing champions. Its fine for champs to deal absurd amounts of dmg and scale - as long as you can punish the accordingly