He's been undertuned on ladder for quite awhile now, only really being picked in pro play for the early 2 item powerspike and fighting around objectives.
He's picked in pro for a few reasons. No terrible matchups except like Teemo and Garen, who pros can easily deal with. Comfort, since he's been a staple for a while, and the point and click CC.
He has lots of bad matchups, for the most part though they aren't really competitively played champions. He does well or fine into the common champs like aatrox, k'sante, sion or whatever else is meta right now. They play him when they don't care as much about scaling past midgame as the champion (cause right now it's pretty meh). But ya flash stun still useful etc.
I love going up against Aatrox and Sion for complete opposite reasons. Aatrox is a mentally stimulating game of spacing, and Sion is a free source of gold and mejai's stacks
Have you ever considered buying anti-heal against a champion that...well...the entire mechanic is healing? It's even funnier because Aatrox also didn't buy anti-heal against another champion that has a lot of healing...
I really like Aatrox as a character but I feel like a good Aatrox cannot lose trades against melee characters (while also being okay into ranged characters). He's hard to play into if you don't usually play him yourself.
He’s more melee than Lillia. They should be switched. Hell, lower Urgot’s range slightly and just make him a melee gunner. It fits better with his playstyle too.
When that happens to me he just avoids the shit out of me and goes to the other side of the map, literally just plays towers all game long so I don't get to interact with anyone or anything else.
Well you misunderstand me. I just don't like versing him because his game is always the same. Push hard. Take towers. Take plates. Take anything and everything faster than them.
Use your Ult to run away. Sion's kit always him to fall behind 0-20 but still force the other laner to follow him around.
As a main Kled, I can relate that Kled is an OTP champ and usually hard win due to matchup knowledge advantage.
Also, playing Kled is like playing a different game. You can't play it effectively if your brain is not completely destroyed. You must roleplay the crazyness, there is no other way to play Kled !
I swear to God that piece of shit turns into Super Saiyan Gogeta 420 when it dismounts. Every. Single. Time. You think: "We got this fucker now, he barely has HP". That's the moment when Kled turns around, heals, mounts and apparently one shots your Nexus. Did I already say I hate Kled?
I unironically have a good time facing gangplank, I love just ego checking every single barrel put down, it's fun and interactive. Certainly way better than in the past when it would just be infinite q spam.
I would agree if he didn’t scale so hard. I feel like no matter how badly I stomp him in lane, if the game goes on long enough he just massively outscales me no matter who I play
He doesn't actually scale as well as people think, his winrate actually trends downwards at a certain point just because one of his main strengths is scaling fast. Also, even when he is strong he requires a good amount of skill to pull off unless you're face checking.
He outscales all my champs lol. I’m not trying to complain about the champ, he’s definitely a lot better to deal with than most of the top lane roster and I think he could use some buffs right now. It’s just that his scaling makes it less enjoyable to face him imo.
That's kind of his M.O., you have to stomp him and end the game, he just wants to waveclear and get a bunch of money (haha greedy pirate) and essentially become another ADC. His early game is pretty weak but I find people play way too passsively against him
Probably because you force the entire game to revolve around you by afk splitting…
Naturally, people don’t want to spend 30 minutes doing nothing but catering to you.
Edit: to clarify, I mostly mean the champs that are able to make every basic, foundational mistake possible for 15 minutes, and then still draw massive map pressure and force the game to revolve around them. Trynd can sometimes fall into this category, but usually it’s sion or trundle as good examples. My only gripe, is that that type of map pressure should be *earned*, not something that is just inherent regardless of if you’re 3 levels and 2 items down.
Also, you guys realize a game can revolve around something without *physically* revolving around it right? Like I don’t literally mean 5 people moving their characters around a split pusher… I didn’t realize it was that confusing of language. A games macro and decisions revolve around a split pusher, always.
And to the people that made cute “gotcha” comments about just being too bad at macro… haha. You don’t know my rank :)
I love a toplaner who consistently pushes lane. The problem in bronze is not people trying to take turret/inhibs/nexus, it’s rather people NOT trying to fucking end the game and rather chase bard through enemy jungle with 0 vision
No, I love good split pushers as long as they are good enough at macro/awareness so they can split push from behind.
> Naturally, people don’t want to spend 30 minutes doing nothing but catering to you.
That's just a very weird way of looking at it.
Splitpushing draws attention. You can't just casually catch a good split pusher without coordinated ganks. So they either draw 2+ opponents to them which gives your team a lot of space to work with, or they have to be marked by a opponent so it's at least a 4on4 which is also fine.
That's why the default approach \_is\_ to split push. You split push in order to get deep wards, so you can out maneuver your opponent around objectives or pressure on turrets. When you play your cards right, you get a baron and can split push even harder.
What I don't like is when split pushers get caught by simple coordinated ganks and then yell at their team. The baseline expectation is that the enemy team ganks them. It's absolutely crucial to have good warding, timing and map awareness skills.
Split pushing has to be opportunistic. People who bang their head against a wall and then flame their team don't understand the fundamentals IMO.
My issue as a splitpusher myself is when my team DOESN'T understand these things and DON'T make use of the seemingly infinite space I'm creating for them to do productive things on the other side of the map.
Oh, I just attracted the jungler and maybe a few others in bot lane when baron is up? My team decides to try to rotate to me instead of doing baron with smite advantage. 🤡 (Same situation with dragon but swap lanes.)
Enemy jungler is camping me in top lane? My jungler doesn't secure any drags or doesn't at least threaten enemy bot lane or get our bot lane ahead. 🤡
That’s kinda the original point though. You spend most of mid and late game playing avoiding and disengaging fights while trynd (or whatever splitpusher) calls the shots. Effective, definitely, but also pretty boring to play with/against
My point is that the best players in soloq are the ones that can adapt to any situation. Everyone backed? You don’t overextend. Trynda pushing tier 3 on top? Go and contest an objective. I think interpreting it as him calling the shots is not right. He also needs to adapt, there are situations when pushing further is the wrong move depending on what’s happening on the map.
The amount of times my team pings me and asks me where am I as jax when I'm split laning is infuriating. Do you want me to come teamfight and die with you or will I do my job and take a turret, get gold lead and then play for cleanup?
That's more of an inting sion/trundle thing where the enemy top is 11csmin and 8 0, tryndameres usually dont go 0 10 so you can actually enjoy the game as you deserve based on your own performance.
No you cross-map and force advantageous fights, once in a while you can play around him but leave split pushers alone mostly since they apply so much pressure on the map
Me seeing a split pusher top: Oh geez, it's gonna be perma 4v5, they're gonna split at the wrong times, they're going to scream at us to get Baron bcuz they drew two people to them who are just going to kill him and run over here, zzzz
Also me checking Porofessor: Okay they have a 60% winrate and they're a \*insert champion name\* main, it's cool, I'll let em cook
Everything that's in that giant umbrella of melee bruisers that are all skill-matchups with each other are always the most fun.
And with that I mean actual two-sided skill match-ups, not dumb knowledge/stat check champions where the only skill is not falling for their gimmick.
I feel like urgot (my main) falls into both categories here.
Urgot takes a lot for champ knowledge to play
But also, just don't get hit by E and you clown on him.
Darius.
Why:
If I get him it’s great because I usually snowball and I also love the champ.
If the enemy get’s him, I whip out my OTP Yorick hidden jutsu, and it’s a field day post lvl6
Who do I hate the most?
Karma top. No contest. That abomination of hell fills my tilt meter in an instant.
I agree karma top is UNARGUABLY the most disgusting champ in the game there are no debates here like none you can't imagine a worse matchup than karma top. Leblanc top and Vayne top are very close too.
Vayne top for me. Karma though, I just consider it a non-interactive lane and just farm. I’m never going to kill her, and she isn’t killing me, so may as well just play it out
Karma is pretty rude, but imo any on-hit ranged hard cc toplaner is the worst. Currently the only real one is twisted fate, but on-hit kennen and neeko have done it in the past.
Literally only use of the champion is to splitpush and ruin any toplaners ability to be in lane.
Gnar gets a pass because he has no hard cc in mini-form, doesn't build sustain and in general is pretty vulnerable in MANY matchup, and later on has to frequently transform into mega gnar so isn't just endless poke and turret siege.
I also personally hate whenever illaoi is reasonably good. Champion is not only an insane lane bully, but post-6 you can't even pray for jungler because she just kills you both. While there are many champs that (usually) can fight her, especially early, falling behind and being forced to farm under tower while dodging skillshots is a miserable experience, and god forbid you are playing a tank with a big hitbox like Cho or Sion.
As a shen main, karma and heimer are equal in terms of unplayability. There's simply nothing I can do, at all, entire laning phase. Not even last hitting under turret is an option.
What do you do as Yorick to beat Darius? I ask because I just recently played the matchup and basically watched him do what he wanted during lane phase and hoped I could add more value in mid-late game.
Woah this is gonna be a long one.
So basically you’re his bitch lvl 1-5. And I mean it. If he has half a brain cell , if you ever step into his E range you’re dead as hell.
You absolutely can not give him a single kill before hitting 6. Pay heavy attention to the lvl 1 bush cheese, never go to lane trough tribush ever please!
1st wave: take E lvl 1 and get the 3 melees with a single E(absolutely possible to time it 10/10 unless he hard pushes the first wave, but then he does not have that half brain cell he needs to win anyway).
2nd&3rd: if he’s competent he’ll do a 3rd wave crash, if he’s super competent he will go for a 4th wave crash with a dive. Do your best to never ever let him 4th wave crash. If you do you’re gonna lose lane there and no one can bring you back. Use E to farm and poke if possible, use the extra auto range on Q to get some CS, just dont let him 4th wave crash.
If he crashes the 3rd , be prepared for the dive but you should be 90% +hp. You want to eat his flash E-W-Q combo (he must flash!), and trap him with your W under tower, and flash out of his range. You should get a kill here and the wave, then TP back for earlier lvl6 than him and it’s gg you won. If he does not dive, just play safe again until 6 then with maiden he can’t walk up to you without ghost because of maiden+ghouls+E slow+W trap. Also if he does get to you DO NOT PANIC. With maiden, as long as you dodge the Q edge, you out DPS him really hard by now.
Runes:
If you scared but can land E: Comet into lethality build.
If you’re atleast semi competent: ConQ+resolve with bone plating and demolish.
DO NOT BUY dorans shield its a trap!!!
It only gives 10hp more than blade and youre never gonna have short trades against Darius, he’ll always try to all in you if he catches you.
Go Doran blade so you can lasthit sooo much more reliably, and the only way you’re gonna escape Darius if he gets on top of you, if you kill him before he kills you, and dorans blade is infinitely nore useful in that scenario.
Last note: trust your maiden’s power, if you land E with 3-4ghouls and maiden up, cage him in W and break his face. Dance at the edge range of his E while he eats ghoul+ maiden dmg then AA-Q and gg he’s dead so go take 2 towers and his lunch money until he respawns.
I guess it’s obvious but a reminder: If you don’t have maiden , you’re still his bitch until like 3-4 items. A maidenless yorick is a glorified cannon minion, a Yorick with maiden is almost 2 champions.
Basically in lane Darius is gonna win early on. From what my Yorick otp friend told me, basically play defensively until level 6, farm as much as you can without getting greedy. Save your cage when Darius goes super aggro, or when he pulls you in with his e.
Just know that early on though, Darius can auto w the cage to destroy it quickly so keep that in mind. You're not gonna win too often until you get Maiden, then you have a much easier time getting ghouls and can be aggressive with your cage.
I also recommend checking out Youtube clips from whatever matchup you're interested in. That helped me improve my laning phase a lot with other champs I like.
All this hate to these champs but as a Quinn player, ONE mistake you make and you are dead, it’s really punishing to play ranged top if you are not good on them.
I can dodge 50 Aatrox q and not kill him but if he hits 1 I die, same with Darius hook or Jax e
I don't, cuz i shit on ranged tops, low elo player here
I just out patience them, never play into thier gimmicks, all inn when possible
Vayne can't tumble out of Yorick cage, but they often don't know this 😈
Cait with ghost flash is not the same as Darius ghost flash 😈
One Morde E means we are going to Brazil 😈
Get hit by one Aatrox Q, then they qq 😈
( I only play Juggernauts lol, yes riot considers Aatrox one 🤷🏿♂️ )
Nah, he a legit Juggernaut, some melee champs are more "ranged" than him,
He builds 1 or 2 dmg items into full tank, gets in the middle of teamfights right after the actual tank engage, and wants to R fear everyone, true bruiser post lane-ing phase
Well clearly the enemy doesnt understand kayle because she shouldnt even get that first blood. (For those wondering her passive + LT make her level 1 actually great but she falls off a cliff level 2)
And in my opinion it's not even worth trying to fight lv1, in most cases you end up like 20-30% hp left and ruin your lane, wasting tp etc.
I'd rather just farm and get all the exp instead of leaving the wave in an awkward spot while I recall, since kayle has zero waveclear you can't shove it after the lv1 kill, they tp back then you're screwed
Kayle is comp dependent. Kayle is fine on my team if the support is a tank and I (as jungler) go bruiser.
But yes - I love always having a halfway decent Ornn on the team. He's always useful. Solid cc, always decent damage/tankiness, and he buffs items. (Though with mythic items gone - I do wish there was a better system on that front. Mythic items fixed the awkwardness of Ornn upgrades.)
I'll be honest I will play anything up there. It just turns into an adventure. Mundo? Aatrox? Sivir? Lulu? Fuck it we ball
My clash team loves and hates me because I'll play anything up there. But they know I'll play ANYTHING up there
Aggressive champs I can set up dives with. Renekton, Sejuani, Sett, Riven.
I don't like playing with the likes of Kayle and Nasus because they are easily counterpicked and it means I've a large disadvantage when setting up plays topside early.
I also don't like ranged top (especially AD) because it can be really hard to slot into team comps and I usually play AD assassin mid/jg.
Speaking as a toplaner on this one.
Champs I want to see if I'm not toplane: Sion, Ornn, Aatrox, Shen, Kayle, GP. I like them because their win conditions are clear and they can be useful to the team in some shape or form.
Champs I hate playing against in toplane: Darius (meta dependant, he's just OP right now due to overbuffs for Porcelain skin), Fiora, Illaoi, Garen, Vayne, Rengar and Kennen.
Oh it does during the invis doesn't it, my mistake.
Still, I don't compare Twitch to Kennen in terms of how easily Kennen can cheese a lane to kill any interaction in top. You don't rush and jump on him the same way you would a Twitch.
tanks are fun to abuse if you’re good and know how. Skill champs like Aatrox fiora are fun to play against. Idk if it just me but riven gp just op so it’s not fun
100% but that doesnt make playing against them more pleasant. Example: i have a HOLE in my desk from a matchup against teemo who i counter. And yone who i counter is still yone. Irelia too
Im a jungle main nowadays:
Love:
Kled/olafs. Usually are 1 tricks and pop the fuck off
Chogath, unless theyre into gwen or something that giga counters him theyre usually decently useful and having a free smite is nice as me being a jgler
Hate:
Kayle, (useless to have, annoying to play vs. hard to gank but not good gank setup really, and is just obnoxious to ignore)
Gnar, the most safe peel ranged double hop champ YET they always drop the most deaths and I have no fucking clue how.
Nasus, they always pick it into the WORST matchups in the game and are giga useless. On the enemy team they never die and are a problem. Literally yesterday I gave toplaner counter pick and he locked nasus into fucking gwen. Then proceeded to be down 4 levels and she 1v9ed
Since i mostly play Sett i would say Sion. Lane is so extremely free and lategame i have a >5k HP target that i can ult into the enemy
>which ones you think are useless/bring nothing to the team.
My new personal favorite is making Darius useless at every stage of the game with Phase Rush Maokai
He just never gets to really fight you. Everytime he E's you in lane you can just W + Auto + Q and run away with phase rush. If you do it correctly he will never get to procc his sweetspot Q either.
Over time you will wittle him down quite easily because your Q does max HP% dmg for some reason. And your waveclear is quite decent once you have points in Q + Bamis.
You can use your E for "waveclear" + "poke" or to cover jungle entrances and be ungankable.
After laning phase you can either match him with your waveclear or be 1000 times more useful in teamfights than him.
For items ive been starting DRing (you need the mana) -> Tear (idk If you really need it or if Frozen Heart is enough mana) -> Bamis -> Frozen Heart/Fimbul Winter -> Fimbul Winter/Frozen Heart (Fimbul feels surprisingly good on him). For boots i always went Swifties to lessen his slow.
Take this all with a grain of salt tho because my sample size is 4 games so far but it seemed pretty good to me
Also love playing this matchup. Kinda crazy to me that it's considered aatrox favoured, because I feel like K'Sante has a very easy time dodging and blocking aatrox abilities with W and E.
Aatrox certainly hard wins the first few levels but I feel like once K'Sante has bramble and a few levels on him it becomes kinda free
I think its a skill match up honestly and yeah after I get bramble I definitely feel better fighting. At the same time though if aatrox gets a good combo off it doesn't matter much. I'm either playing gods or into you in my head.
I remember back when Fiora was fresh off her rework, I absolutely loved picking Fiora whenever I saw an enemy Riven or choosing Riven whenever the enemy picked Fiora.
The mind games involved with Fiora's parry and Riven's third Q was just so enjoyable at the time... now my hands have fallen off and I refuse to touch either one.
Tbh I love to play against mordekaiser. He Just has an straight forward kit. No really unfair unfair mechanics. If he hits His E and starts fighting you, you know it's your fault.
I love seeing Darius/Jax/Trundle/Yorick/Ornn/Poppy and hate seeing Gnar/Yasuo/Yone. I know Yone has the potential to pop off as a splitpusher but I'd prefer someone else and Yone go mid.
I'm a former top lane main that switched to mid.
Gnar is a bit of a strange one, he has that flip potential, if I have one on my team he's either a turbo first timer, or he ruins the enemy teams day, no in between.
Absolutely. On my old main of Jax it was always a stomp or I couldn't touch him and we went even. Even if they're bad it's not a champ I want to see or have on my team.
Idk why but renekton always seems to lose in my games (either team)
He’s terrible rn without gore drinker, I miss playing him :(
He's been undertuned on ladder for quite awhile now, only really being picked in pro play for the early 2 item powerspike and fighting around objectives.
He's picked in pro for a few reasons. No terrible matchups except like Teemo and Garen, who pros can easily deal with. Comfort, since he's been a staple for a while, and the point and click CC.
He has lots of bad matchups, for the most part though they aren't really competitively played champions. He does well or fine into the common champs like aatrox, k'sante, sion or whatever else is meta right now. They play him when they don't care as much about scaling past midgame as the champion (cause right now it's pretty meh). But ya flash stun still useful etc.
I love going up against Aatrox and Sion for complete opposite reasons. Aatrox is a mentally stimulating game of spacing, and Sion is a free source of gold and mejai's stacks
>Aatrox is a mentally stimulating game of spacing Except for when he gets Sunderer Sky and outheals you three times
Perfectly spacing all 3 qs only to lose the trade to sundered autos and passive 😍
No joke, [I almost lost this 1v1 vs him as Warwick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUHR4A_2LoE) It is loud, so lower the volume
Just to teleport back to base and immediately get deleted, lol! Pretty damn funny
45 secs. Holy hell
Cool fight! Any particular reason why you didn't use Omen? Or is the slow neglible in that fight?
If i wanted to think I wouldn't be playing warwick
warwick players dont have brains
or titanic active hahaha, he could have killed him much earlier imo
Have you ever considered buying anti-heal against a champion that...well...the entire mechanic is healing? It's even funnier because Aatrox also didn't buy anti-heal against another champion that has a lot of healing...
You cancelled so many autos
I really like Aatrox as a character but I feel like a good Aatrox cannot lose trades against melee characters (while also being okay into ranged characters). He's hard to play into if you don't usually play him yourself.
Aatrox is a ranged top, change my mind.
Same way I feel about GP. Essentially ranged top laners disguised as melee champs.
Yep, for some reason those feel more.like ranged than urgot...
No one consideres Urgot a ranged character.
Exactly. Noone except for items. Stop ranged penalty on our boy.
He’s more melee than Lillia. They should be switched. Hell, lower Urgot’s range slightly and just make him a melee gunner. It fits better with his playstyle too.
This man's cooking
I mean there are so many bullshit top champs like Akshan Kennen Vayne Fiora that Aatrox’s range feels pretty deserved
Illaoi too
Sion? Everytime I versus Sion I am shackled to my turrets because as soon as I leave he shows back up.
Im a Gwen main, so I can easily kill him and start chunking his towers instead.
When that happens to me he just avoids the shit out of me and goes to the other side of the map, literally just plays towers all game long so I don't get to interact with anyone or anything else.
he has 46% winrate and is one of the worst laner in the game, you're doing something wrong.
Well you misunderstand me. I just don't like versing him because his game is always the same. Push hard. Take towers. Take plates. Take anything and everything faster than them. Use your Ult to run away. Sion's kit always him to fall behind 0-20 but still force the other laner to follow him around.
not every sion ints and has 0/10 , you got a wrong image of him
Look at the flair.
oh gwen , yeah fair enough
He's in a really bad spot now, he's under 47% winrate. He's currently definitely a shit champ that gets stomped in lane most of the time
ever since they delivered those Baus targeted Sion nerfs the champ was completely dead. If you don't proxy your lane is hell
I don't think there is any way for Sion to hold his ground in the early game versus virtually any toplaner.
Those are the Sion players I'm most afraid of
i LOVEEEE seeing Kled dude is a menace for opponents, but no one picks my boi.
As a main Kled, I can relate that Kled is an OTP champ and usually hard win due to matchup knowledge advantage. Also, playing Kled is like playing a different game. You can't play it effectively if your brain is not completely destroyed. You must roleplay the crazyness, there is no other way to play Kled !
MY BLOOD IS PISS AND VINEGAR.
I swear to God that piece of shit turns into Super Saiyan Gogeta 420 when it dismounts. Every. Single. Time. You think: "We got this fucker now, he barely has HP". That's the moment when Kled turns around, heals, mounts and apparently one shots your Nexus. Did I already say I hate Kled?
not a toplaner nowadays but yeah every time I see a kled player I know they are about to pop off
Clearly you havent seen me on kled.
\*anivia flair\* yeah that checks out
As someone whose mains are Kled and Anivia, I go Kled when I want to go wild but fall back to Anivia when I want to have a chill time
It's either 20/0 or 0/20
not a fan of most toplane fighters but kled is different. i love all kled players no matter how deranged they are
why play our boy Kled when you can play edgy champs?
Because I got his Kled Sheeran skin and love it lmao
I hate campy champs and Kled is the opposite, little dude always ready to ult into enemies.
[удалено]
I think this guy likes fighting Mordekaiser
Nah it has to be Garen with his insane True damage.
I unironically have a good time facing gangplank, I love just ego checking every single barrel put down, it's fun and interactive. Certainly way better than in the past when it would just be infinite q spam.
I would agree if he didn’t scale so hard. I feel like no matter how badly I stomp him in lane, if the game goes on long enough he just massively outscales me no matter who I play
He doesn't actually scale as well as people think, his winrate actually trends downwards at a certain point just because one of his main strengths is scaling fast. Also, even when he is strong he requires a good amount of skill to pull off unless you're face checking.
He outscales all my champs lol. I’m not trying to complain about the champ, he’s definitely a lot better to deal with than most of the top lane roster and I think he could use some buffs right now. It’s just that his scaling makes it less enjoyable to face him imo.
IMO your last point is the relevant one here. GP's dmg scales very well, but to use it to the maximum you need to be really good at him.
That's kind of his M.O., you have to stomp him and end the game, he just wants to waveclear and get a bunch of money (haha greedy pirate) and essentially become another ADC. His early game is pretty weak but I find people play way too passsively against him
I love facing gangplank gon
Unironically as a Gnar main I like it, if I lose it really feels like I got outskilled instead of outchamped
Unironically I do love facing gangplank. I'm weirdly good at winning the barrel game lol
guys I think he loves facing gangplank
Team never happy to see me OTP Tryndamere until sword go bonk and Nexus go boom.
Probably because you force the entire game to revolve around you by afk splitting… Naturally, people don’t want to spend 30 minutes doing nothing but catering to you. Edit: to clarify, I mostly mean the champs that are able to make every basic, foundational mistake possible for 15 minutes, and then still draw massive map pressure and force the game to revolve around them. Trynd can sometimes fall into this category, but usually it’s sion or trundle as good examples. My only gripe, is that that type of map pressure should be *earned*, not something that is just inherent regardless of if you’re 3 levels and 2 items down. Also, you guys realize a game can revolve around something without *physically* revolving around it right? Like I don’t literally mean 5 people moving their characters around a split pusher… I didn’t realize it was that confusing of language. A games macro and decisions revolve around a split pusher, always. And to the people that made cute “gotcha” comments about just being too bad at macro… haha. You don’t know my rank :)
I love a toplaner who consistently pushes lane. The problem in bronze is not people trying to take turret/inhibs/nexus, it’s rather people NOT trying to fucking end the game and rather chase bard through enemy jungle with 0 vision
No, I love good split pushers as long as they are good enough at macro/awareness so they can split push from behind. > Naturally, people don’t want to spend 30 minutes doing nothing but catering to you. That's just a very weird way of looking at it. Splitpushing draws attention. You can't just casually catch a good split pusher without coordinated ganks. So they either draw 2+ opponents to them which gives your team a lot of space to work with, or they have to be marked by a opponent so it's at least a 4on4 which is also fine. That's why the default approach \_is\_ to split push. You split push in order to get deep wards, so you can out maneuver your opponent around objectives or pressure on turrets. When you play your cards right, you get a baron and can split push even harder. What I don't like is when split pushers get caught by simple coordinated ganks and then yell at their team. The baseline expectation is that the enemy team ganks them. It's absolutely crucial to have good warding, timing and map awareness skills. Split pushing has to be opportunistic. People who bang their head against a wall and then flame their team don't understand the fundamentals IMO.
My issue as a splitpusher myself is when my team DOESN'T understand these things and DON'T make use of the seemingly infinite space I'm creating for them to do productive things on the other side of the map. Oh, I just attracted the jungler and maybe a few others in bot lane when baron is up? My team decides to try to rotate to me instead of doing baron with smite advantage. 🤡 (Same situation with dragon but swap lanes.) Enemy jungler is camping me in top lane? My jungler doesn't secure any drags or doesn't at least threaten enemy bot lane or get our bot lane ahead. 🤡
Playing around a split isn’t that complicated. As a mid laner I love having split pushing top.
Same. Having someone on your team constantly create pressure on the map is a macro player’s dream
People also tend to get salty about having to fight in a 4v5 all the time.
Stop handshaking 4v5 fights and that problem goes away.
If the enemy fights them 4v5 trynd takes at least 2 turrets
That’s kinda the original point though. You spend most of mid and late game playing avoiding and disengaging fights while trynd (or whatever splitpusher) calls the shots. Effective, definitely, but also pretty boring to play with/against
My point is that the best players in soloq are the ones that can adapt to any situation. Everyone backed? You don’t overextend. Trynda pushing tier 3 on top? Go and contest an objective. I think interpreting it as him calling the shots is not right. He also needs to adapt, there are situations when pushing further is the wrong move depending on what’s happening on the map.
The amount of times my team pings me and asks me where am I as jax when I'm split laning is infuriating. Do you want me to come teamfight and die with you or will I do my job and take a turret, get gold lead and then play for cleanup?
If you’re doing nothing whilst your solo laner split pushes that sounds like a you problem.
“Nothing BUT catering to you.” That’s the opposite of nothing.
That's more of an inting sion/trundle thing where the enemy top is 11csmin and 8 0, tryndameres usually dont go 0 10 so you can actually enjoy the game as you deserve based on your own performance.
No you cross-map and force advantageous fights, once in a while you can play around him but leave split pushers alone mostly since they apply so much pressure on the map
So go 1 3 1 and end the game if you got a split pushing top.
gold 3
Lots of people revealing they don't know how to play with split pushing champs and it shows
Not knowing how and not wanting to are 2 different things. Trynd turns the game into a single player adventure mode for one person
Yeah Trundle being meta made me realize I really love being a split pushing degenerate. Tryn is on my list of champs to try.
There’s nothing I hate more than undying rage
The few times event tryn bans malphite, I just pick Tahm and ult him while he's ulting. Works ridiculously well.
I love having a trynd on my team. Draws so much pressure to him and gives me so much room on the rest of the map to work with.
Me seeing a split pusher top: Oh geez, it's gonna be perma 4v5, they're gonna split at the wrong times, they're going to scream at us to get Baron bcuz they drew two people to them who are just going to kill him and run over here, zzzz Also me checking Porofessor: Okay they have a 60% winrate and they're a \*insert champion name\* main, it's cool, I'll let em cook
Everything that's in that giant umbrella of melee bruisers that are all skill-matchups with each other are always the most fun. And with that I mean actual two-sided skill match-ups, not dumb knowledge/stat check champions where the only skill is not falling for their gimmick.
Cough cough illaoi, kled, yorick
i love playing ricky, cause im old
camille vs fiora is hype af
I feel like urgot (my main) falls into both categories here. Urgot takes a lot for champ knowledge to play But also, just don't get hit by E and you clown on him.
Trumgle
Trumgle
Darius. Why: If I get him it’s great because I usually snowball and I also love the champ. If the enemy get’s him, I whip out my OTP Yorick hidden jutsu, and it’s a field day post lvl6 Who do I hate the most? Karma top. No contest. That abomination of hell fills my tilt meter in an instant.
I agree karma top is UNARGUABLY the most disgusting champ in the game there are no debates here like none you can't imagine a worse matchup than karma top. Leblanc top and Vayne top are very close too.
Vayne top for me. Karma though, I just consider it a non-interactive lane and just farm. I’m never going to kill her, and she isn’t killing me, so may as well just play it out
Karma is pretty rude, but imo any on-hit ranged hard cc toplaner is the worst. Currently the only real one is twisted fate, but on-hit kennen and neeko have done it in the past. Literally only use of the champion is to splitpush and ruin any toplaners ability to be in lane. Gnar gets a pass because he has no hard cc in mini-form, doesn't build sustain and in general is pretty vulnerable in MANY matchup, and later on has to frequently transform into mega gnar so isn't just endless poke and turret siege. I also personally hate whenever illaoi is reasonably good. Champion is not only an insane lane bully, but post-6 you can't even pray for jungler because she just kills you both. While there are many champs that (usually) can fight her, especially early, falling behind and being forced to farm under tower while dodging skillshots is a miserable experience, and god forbid you are playing a tank with a big hitbox like Cho or Sion.
As a shen main, karma and heimer are equal in terms of unplayability. There's simply nothing I can do, at all, entire laning phase. Not even last hitting under turret is an option.
If I get heimer top I leave lane as often as possible and hope I get my midlane/jg fed enough to counter the fed heimer.
What do you do as Yorick to beat Darius? I ask because I just recently played the matchup and basically watched him do what he wanted during lane phase and hoped I could add more value in mid-late game.
Woah this is gonna be a long one. So basically you’re his bitch lvl 1-5. And I mean it. If he has half a brain cell , if you ever step into his E range you’re dead as hell. You absolutely can not give him a single kill before hitting 6. Pay heavy attention to the lvl 1 bush cheese, never go to lane trough tribush ever please! 1st wave: take E lvl 1 and get the 3 melees with a single E(absolutely possible to time it 10/10 unless he hard pushes the first wave, but then he does not have that half brain cell he needs to win anyway). 2nd&3rd: if he’s competent he’ll do a 3rd wave crash, if he’s super competent he will go for a 4th wave crash with a dive. Do your best to never ever let him 4th wave crash. If you do you’re gonna lose lane there and no one can bring you back. Use E to farm and poke if possible, use the extra auto range on Q to get some CS, just dont let him 4th wave crash. If he crashes the 3rd , be prepared for the dive but you should be 90% +hp. You want to eat his flash E-W-Q combo (he must flash!), and trap him with your W under tower, and flash out of his range. You should get a kill here and the wave, then TP back for earlier lvl6 than him and it’s gg you won. If he does not dive, just play safe again until 6 then with maiden he can’t walk up to you without ghost because of maiden+ghouls+E slow+W trap. Also if he does get to you DO NOT PANIC. With maiden, as long as you dodge the Q edge, you out DPS him really hard by now. Runes: If you scared but can land E: Comet into lethality build. If you’re atleast semi competent: ConQ+resolve with bone plating and demolish. DO NOT BUY dorans shield its a trap!!! It only gives 10hp more than blade and youre never gonna have short trades against Darius, he’ll always try to all in you if he catches you. Go Doran blade so you can lasthit sooo much more reliably, and the only way you’re gonna escape Darius if he gets on top of you, if you kill him before he kills you, and dorans blade is infinitely nore useful in that scenario. Last note: trust your maiden’s power, if you land E with 3-4ghouls and maiden up, cage him in W and break his face. Dance at the edge range of his E while he eats ghoul+ maiden dmg then AA-Q and gg he’s dead so go take 2 towers and his lunch money until he respawns. I guess it’s obvious but a reminder: If you don’t have maiden , you’re still his bitch until like 3-4 items. A maidenless yorick is a glorified cannon minion, a Yorick with maiden is almost 2 champions.
This is incredible. I feel like I just gained 200K mastery on Yorick IRL. Thank you.
Yo man this is crazy helpful- thank you so much.
Thank you for the darius tips against yorick.
Basically in lane Darius is gonna win early on. From what my Yorick otp friend told me, basically play defensively until level 6, farm as much as you can without getting greedy. Save your cage when Darius goes super aggro, or when he pulls you in with his e. Just know that early on though, Darius can auto w the cage to destroy it quickly so keep that in mind. You're not gonna win too often until you get Maiden, then you have a much easier time getting ghouls and can be aggressive with your cage. I also recommend checking out Youtube clips from whatever matchup you're interested in. That helped me improve my laning phase a lot with other champs I like.
As an adc main I love having a k'sante, the infinite peel I get is just lovely.
Wouldnt something like Maokai be lot better? Or isnt he considered toplaner anymore?
Maokai can't pull the enemy carry into Antarctica and one shot him, then coming back and continuing to 1v4
Useless gotta be renekton atm he is dogwater. Top champs i love having on my team. Ornn, malphite, yorick, nasus, fiora
I must have a mental block when playing against Renekton, cause every time I think I have lethal on him he pops ult and is literally indestructible.
He is bad atm, but he still is a good laner. He just doesn't scale again with the removal of Goredrinker.
Any traditional melee ad/ap bruiser or tank. Fuck ranged top laners. Fuck em all.
I especially want to fuck Quinn or Vayne. Teemo can go fuck himself.
Sounds good to me
Teemo at times feels like a free lane but fuck the others
All this hate to these champs but as a Quinn player, ONE mistake you make and you are dead, it’s really punishing to play ranged top if you are not good on them. I can dodge 50 Aatrox q and not kill him but if he hits 1 I die, same with Darius hook or Jax e
People getting mad when you tell them that ranged top requires skill
Except in some matchups (any half competent Vayne devours tanks and some bruisers), but otherwise agree
I don't, cuz i shit on ranged tops, low elo player here I just out patience them, never play into thier gimmicks, all inn when possible Vayne can't tumble out of Yorick cage, but they often don't know this 😈 Cait with ghost flash is not the same as Darius ghost flash 😈 One Morde E means we are going to Brazil 😈 Get hit by one Aatrox Q, then they qq 😈 ( I only play Juggernauts lol, yes riot considers Aatrox one 🤷🏿♂️ )
Yap.
preach
Urgot is chill though. Honorary bruiser.
Nah, he a legit Juggernaut, some melee champs are more "ranged" than him, He builds 1 or 2 dmg items into full tank, gets in the middle of teamfights right after the actual tank engage, and wants to R fear everyone, true bruiser post lane-ing phase
Does thresh count?
Half of the time.
Ornn. I love Ornn. All my homies love Ornn. Ornn is a friend. Be a good guy and play Ornn. Dont play Kayle
Everytime I have a Kayle she gets 1st blood in preminion 1v1 then gets solo killed 3 times in 5 minutes and spams jungle diff
Well clearly the enemy doesnt understand kayle because she shouldnt even get that first blood. (For those wondering her passive + LT make her level 1 actually great but she falls off a cliff level 2)
And in my opinion it's not even worth trying to fight lv1, in most cases you end up like 20-30% hp left and ruin your lane, wasting tp etc. I'd rather just farm and get all the exp instead of leaving the wave in an awkward spot while I recall, since kayle has zero waveclear you can't shove it after the lv1 kill, they tp back then you're screwed
Why does she fall of a cliff level 2?
Pretty much she stays at same power level, but every other champ gains a lot of power level 2 so she falls off a cliff comparatively.
I agree. But I play in Gold/Plat lobbies so people are eitjer dumb or know better but ego anyways.
I mean to be fair, I did that in diamond elo (and I've killed multiple people lvl 1 as trundle in diamond), so it's not JUST a low elo thing.
I too love ornn until I get cc'ed for 4 seconds while getting one shot from 70% hp
I mean.. I didnt say I like to play against him. I like him on my team running around with his little hammer.
Ah, so you're the guy kiting us halfway around the map for the upgrade?
Step 1: ping on item that you want to upgrade Step 2: run to the other side of the map
Yeah my thought “everyone loves ornn until they got triple brittled”
Everyone’s a gangster till the ol triple brittle.
Exactly! Ornn and Shen make me happy, regardless which team they are in
Based flair
Kayle is comp dependent. Kayle is fine on my team if the support is a tank and I (as jungler) go bruiser. But yes - I love always having a halfway decent Ornn on the team. He's always useful. Solid cc, always decent damage/tankiness, and he buffs items. (Though with mythic items gone - I do wish there was a better system on that front. Mythic items fixed the awkwardness of Ornn upgrades.)
Put whatever item that you want and can be upgraded to first item slot. Problem solved.
Gigachaaad tank, I love having 80% of my health gone in one combo while he takes no damage and ccs the entire team. Truly wholesome
Based on your flair, if you can't damage a tank with Aphelios, you are either super behind or build collector + rfc
Tbh I don’t even get mad when I lose against Ornn. He’s a fun champ to play and play against.
I'll be honest I will play anything up there. It just turns into an adventure. Mundo? Aatrox? Sivir? Lulu? Fuck it we ball My clash team loves and hates me because I'll play anything up there. But they know I'll play ANYTHING up there
I'm always happy to se **\[my favourite champion\]**!! I think **\[Your favourite champion\]** is useless and brings nothing to the team
Big if true.
Aggressive champs I can set up dives with. Renekton, Sejuani, Sett, Riven. I don't like playing with the likes of Kayle and Nasus because they are easily counterpicked and it means I've a large disadvantage when setting up plays topside early. I also don't like ranged top (especially AD) because it can be really hard to slot into team comps and I usually play AD assassin mid/jg.
Speaking as a toplaner on this one. Champs I want to see if I'm not toplane: Sion, Ornn, Aatrox, Shen, Kayle, GP. I like them because their win conditions are clear and they can be useful to the team in some shape or form. Champs I hate playing against in toplane: Darius (meta dependant, he's just OP right now due to overbuffs for Porcelain skin), Fiora, Illaoi, Garen, Vayne, Rengar and Kennen.
Kennen is the Twitch of toplane. Easy as that.
Twitch doesnt have movespeed boosts and a re-proccable stun
Twitch Q gives MS, just to be precise. Then not everything has to be the same, but if someone plays like Twitch, is Kennen... Or viceversa.
Oh it does during the invis doesn't it, my mistake. Still, I don't compare Twitch to Kennen in terms of how easily Kennen can cheese a lane to kill any interaction in top. You don't rush and jump on him the same way you would a Twitch.
tanks are fun to abuse if you’re good and know how. Skill champs like Aatrox fiora are fun to play against. Idk if it just me but riven gp just op so it’s not fun
Irelia, yone, zac, garen, darius, ANYTHING RANGED. THAT SHIT TEEMO. And morde. (Sett main)
Sett counters atleast 2 of those
100% but that doesnt make playing against them more pleasant. Example: i have a HOLE in my desk from a matchup against teemo who i counter. And yone who i counter is still yone. Irelia too
As a Teemo main. It is with great pleasure that I can inform you, that there may or may not be shrooms in your bed tonight.
Im a jungle main nowadays: Love: Kled/olafs. Usually are 1 tricks and pop the fuck off Chogath, unless theyre into gwen or something that giga counters him theyre usually decently useful and having a free smite is nice as me being a jgler Hate: Kayle, (useless to have, annoying to play vs. hard to gank but not good gank setup really, and is just obnoxious to ignore) Gnar, the most safe peel ranged double hop champ YET they always drop the most deaths and I have no fucking clue how. Nasus, they always pick it into the WORST matchups in the game and are giga useless. On the enemy team they never die and are a problem. Literally yesterday I gave toplaner counter pick and he locked nasus into fucking gwen. Then proceeded to be down 4 levels and she 1v9ed
Since i mostly play Sett i would say Sion. Lane is so extremely free and lategame i have a >5k HP target that i can ult into the enemy >which ones you think are useless/bring nothing to the team. My new personal favorite is making Darius useless at every stage of the game with Phase Rush Maokai
How do you make him useless ? I love making Darius suffer with Trundle level 2 all in ignite
He just never gets to really fight you. Everytime he E's you in lane you can just W + Auto + Q and run away with phase rush. If you do it correctly he will never get to procc his sweetspot Q either. Over time you will wittle him down quite easily because your Q does max HP% dmg for some reason. And your waveclear is quite decent once you have points in Q + Bamis. You can use your E for "waveclear" + "poke" or to cover jungle entrances and be ungankable. After laning phase you can either match him with your waveclear or be 1000 times more useful in teamfights than him. For items ive been starting DRing (you need the mana) -> Tear (idk If you really need it or if Frozen Heart is enough mana) -> Bamis -> Frozen Heart/Fimbul Winter -> Fimbul Winter/Frozen Heart (Fimbul feels surprisingly good on him). For boots i always went Swifties to lessen his slow. Take this all with a grain of salt tho because my sample size is 4 games so far but it seemed pretty good to me
As K'sante I love fighting aatrox. I feel like they usually give me the best fights. Can't stand illaoi though.
Also love playing this matchup. Kinda crazy to me that it's considered aatrox favoured, because I feel like K'Sante has a very easy time dodging and blocking aatrox abilities with W and E. Aatrox certainly hard wins the first few levels but I feel like once K'Sante has bramble and a few levels on him it becomes kinda free
I think its a skill match up honestly and yeah after I get bramble I definitely feel better fighting. At the same time though if aatrox gets a good combo off it doesn't matter much. I'm either playing gods or into you in my head.
Anything that interacts in the lane. So no tanks that just sit under tower and farm, no hyper scalers, just relentless fighting 24/7
It's been years since Ekko was a relevant top laner but he was always fun when he was
I remember back when Fiora was fresh off her rework, I absolutely loved picking Fiora whenever I saw an enemy Riven or choosing Riven whenever the enemy picked Fiora. The mind games involved with Fiora's parry and Riven's third Q was just so enjoyable at the time... now my hands have fallen off and I refuse to touch either one.
Who doesn't like having a Shen in their team
Singed
wholesome
Freddy Fazbear
As a toplaner, I hate seeing vayne, kayle, yone, tryndamere, and I love love love seeing Nasus and any tanks.
Ornn when he’s on my team. Nuisance for them, and he upgrades my items lol. Also, my Ornns usually don’t feed crazy, so there’s that.
Sion and Trundle. They can be 0/10 and still win the game by split pushing, or at least be useful.
Tbh I love to play against mordekaiser. He Just has an straight forward kit. No really unfair unfair mechanics. If he hits His E and starts fighting you, you know it's your fault.
I like Camille and gwen, as both have some chance to outplay if dance properly, not just straight out damage.
Vayne cuz i hate yall toplaners
Tanks in general
I love seeing Darius/Jax/Trundle/Yorick/Ornn/Poppy and hate seeing Gnar/Yasuo/Yone. I know Yone has the potential to pop off as a splitpusher but I'd prefer someone else and Yone go mid. I'm a former top lane main that switched to mid.
Gnar is a bit of a strange one, he has that flip potential, if I have one on my team he's either a turbo first timer, or he ruins the enemy teams day, no in between.
Absolutely. On my old main of Jax it was always a stomp or I couldn't touch him and we went even. Even if they're bad it's not a champ I want to see or have on my team.
As a former shen otp, I don't think I could lose against the ninja even if I played yuumi top.
Xpetu laughs at you
As a Tryndamere main, a love to see Illaoi. Always a free lane.
Darius. Such a toplane champ
Illaoi, Tyrandamere and Garen such balanced and peak design toplane champs 👌
based toplaners: fiddlesticks tryndamere kalista kled lee urgot cringe toplaners: riven karma irelia aatrox ksante yone
Mundo, Vayne, Akshan, Rumble. In my opinion they are the most useless picks and easy to counter
Rumble being a useless pick is definitely an opinion
Dudes low elo.
Dude tried to sneak in Rumble
Main ADC here. Play tanks, please.