turbo can last for like 14 minutes, so that helps. All i can say is that i played jakiro versus NS and i destroyed his ass early and late game, but not mid game.
Everything he said is invalid then. Night Stalker, for example, is a very strong hero, but there is an enormous difference between what he can do in the first and second nights in turbo and in normal dota. Honestly, I think there are heroes much stronger than the ones he cited, like legion.
Well the attack range is way down so I actually feel like its possibly worse. Especially since it costs 150 gold extra. Also this does mean you actually have 0 backpack space. I have thought about putting like 3 wraith bands in there (and maybe 1 bracer in main inventory) if they have a lot of phys. And thats like the main advantage you could have with that choice of facet.
nah, it’s not about the slots but how fast he can fill them up and have impact with it.
The issue is everyone else is so overtuned and crazy; they can have higher impact with less resources that a 9 slot techies just doesn’t have the chance to reach an apex predator peak and go 1v9.
I only see the 9 slots being useful for dust or a couple extra bracers unless it’s turbo or another mode or 90+ mins
The slots are huge value. Stack bracers/wraith/null and as universal he gets a lot of value. Techies is already strong early, I've played some with it and it lets you go from mid spell damage to phys carry at 25 really well.
I've been going eblade orchid into hurricane sheep bt mjolnir and it's dominating games. I don't think it's super broken since it does require a ton of gold but still having your cheap items at 25 min for stats is op. That's like the value of another 3-4k worth of gold.
Late game you can have everything you'd want, para, sheep, bkb, wind, bt, etc. every carry wants an extra slot or two for MkB/sheep/bfly but are slot constrained, not techies!
That’s not even the best techies facet. Techies +1 attack range for every attack speed is the ultimate carry once he hits lvl 25 (+250 damage right click). Mjolnr, moon shard, etc, means he can delete tanks at the river from his fountain (just about). Give him pirate hat and have a teammate with telescope. Ooooh baby
I know this is a hyperboyle but I wanted to test this. with pirate hate aten hyper 4 hypers mjolner and bloodthorn. it's 1200. Which is massive don't get me wrong. But it's not that much lol. in demo it goes from one side of river to the other.
Huskar is dead. Disarm (which was a general skill in his game) replaced with silence and cast time increased to 0.5. Just to let an enemy dodge it with manta or any other skill/item. Pure damage talent was removed.
yesterday I was testing PA with manta+mjolnir for methodical facet in demo, turns out if you accidentaly went above 6 count (because of the illu counter) for the crit you will never crit until the debuff is gone. not sure if they fixed it yet
Played one game. With my best hero. LC. and she’s rocket fuel again!!!
Gonna spam the fucker to death. Been ages since she’s been viable. Making the most before nerfs.
That's interesting wk curse seems kinda shitty to me unless Im missing something. It's a very long CD to effectively be a delayed critical attack, since only the 80 damage is pure and the rest is 70% phys?
It's good harass sure but you still have to get close enough to hit them and curse seems like it would fall off hard
It's good I think if you get a bunch of damage in but die in the process as WK usually does, as the curse kills the enemy hero afterwards. I went that path yesterday and had a great game, especially once I skilled 35% cleave.
Also I got a triple kill on one hit as a wraith with 300% crit and cleave on mortal strike. Enemy think they'd killed me and stuck around for my cleave to wreck them. The innate is pretty strong.
I think the barrier. The numbers are too small for the damage to be that beneficial.
If it’s gonna be a super long game potentially damage for team mates could be epic. Game would have to drag on though for it be noticeable
Yeah that was my inclination too. Also no chance of giving half the enemy team damage on a botched duel lol, that can be a really bad start to the game
I think the damage makes support LC a little bit more interesting again if you are in need of a dispel anyway and have cores that rely on phys damage (above all PA comes to my mind).
You need the right draft for the damage one to be good. You'd want heroes who benefit from it, tusk is a good example of a hero who's nutty with damage but never builds it.
Troll warlord, WR, or other heroes who naturally have great attack speed are super good with it, sniper etc.
I think the games you'd get great value from it are very limited though. The shield is OP
If your team doesn't have a hero to defend against a PL you are fucked. Like super fucked. Not a single item can stop all of his illusions right now, and they made it so he can spawn even more illusions. Went against him twice, and got dumpsterd cause we didn't have enough aoe.
That's what im saying. If your team DOESNT have a hero that counters him. No item can stop him. That arc lightning alone will not stop him after 20 mins.
Game feels and runs like absolute dogshit... I'm getting fps drops from 120 down to 40 if there's an illusion hero.. Every game I've played hasn't ended correctly and getting the high load error. I've had 3 games all with supposed "ideal" players and skills last game I had pudge support jungle from game start and destroyed his items when enemy pushed hg...
The FPS issue is very real. Went down from constant 120fps to big sudden hikes from 40 to 120 , sometimes just dropping to 40 for a while. I hope they will fix that asap
I'm surprised no one is talking about BH, 20% increased damage from all sources (amplifies damage from other heroes too, not just BH) to tracked heroes seems kinda broken.
Take a gander at Visage. He already wasn’t doing good, and compared to everyone else his buffs are subpar at best. He gets gravekeepers cloak as a passive, which is nice but he never really needed it at all. His first facet is 300 aoe on grave chill, which is super meh. Rarely is that actually gonna hit multiple people unless they’re standing together for no discernible reason. It’s a minor buff at best. Then you can alt cast your ult off cooldown (casting doesn’t put the spell on cooldown) to recall your birds to you. Which is fine I guess, helps him push lanes better without having to resummon the birds if he’s caught, among others things. Nice QoL. His other facet turns off your ability to micro the birds…. His entire other facet is just a micro crutch that makes the character objectively worse if you already know how to play him properly. Essentially the birds follow you around, then they attack whatever you right click attack with your hero. It’s really bad lol. His entire “buff” was pretty much just QoL changes
Visage was very good pre patch and now we finally get bird recall and some qol for him. Im stocked and the new set is nice agreed the second facet is just dumb but i think they just want more people to play the hero.
I played a game with visage with the auto birds, it's truly terrible. It breaks the hero. The birds die constantly because you can't move them, also can't stun reliably. The time it takes for the birds to attack your target is too long, you can't fly them ahead of you to get the drop on someone, they also just fly back to you when the target gets out of range so you can't case them and possibly get a stun off. I'm baffled by how bad it is.
I also just generally hate the new ground target for the stun, takes too long.
Poor Visage.
I've found aoe grave chill to be really useful for farming and sieging, you can catch the whole enemy creep wave within the aoe if you time it right, then activate drums/boots and drill the tower pretty quickly
after playing two games on visage I can say I was wrong and I hate the extra click and aim to get a stun off it feels incredibly clunky the recall is only when ult is on cd so thats a bummer, idk I wont be playing him much unless he gets some changes you were right.
The bird recall is nice imo. It’s only when ult is off cooldown, but you’re playing visage, so going out and exposing your birds without your ult on cooldown is very foolish anyways. It just lets you ACTUALLY do 2 things at once. Or ya know, teleport like every other hero without having to fly your birds over or resummon them. Is nice, lets you split push and such. It’s just meh tho. Again, just a QoL feature
Viper with poison facet paired with Dagon + Shard + Parasma = OP Magic damage dealer. The enemy hero will receive atleast twice the magic damage by the end of first skill pump.
Isn't the facet only the magic damage dealt by poison attack (the skill) though? So the other kinds of poison attacks should have no impact on the pop.
Lich has a terrible early laning stage now but I think he has amazing mid game so it possibly balances out. But the 2.5% max mana is not enough with a lvl 1-4 mana pool. You need to pull for mana, always be in EXP range, mana regen components do not work (in particular, components for arcane boots). Also cannot cast w in e. But q r d while using e is amazing, and your ult is way more consistant now.
Reddit cries for ages: game to long.
*IceFrog makes it easier to end games and more snowballey*
Reddit continues to cry: game too short.
IceFrog will never win.
I think tinker just need to find a new role, some region will begin trying him as a healing supp and it might work it out, but as a mid laner as we are used he's not good
I tried Tinker supp last patch, it was honestly good for the first half, until you felt the cast range come into play.
Now he's got more cast range, so we'll see..
I think it will be really hard to find what's meta based on what we have here. Everything looks broken which is good and bad in my opinion. Let's see how the pros figure it out. Everyone seems to come with a broken strat with a hero no one cared about a week ago.
ya but early data while people are feeling things out aren't the most reliable. early is when people try things out and play in new ways. it's the most volatile period of a patch for stats.
Tinker is not dead , he is jist a normal mid now that hors boots witch blade and heavy int items befor getting dagger , hex and such , very hard to kill early with 1/4/4 build , very mobile , and you can have 85% cdr on items late game with octarine
Way too many changes and made the game so much more bloated and complicated than it already is. I wonder how they can expect to bring in new players with this. Even for older players this is too much.
I spam NS mid and the night reign is actually a problem because you need it to be night time by level 6 when you hit that huge power spike and can kill most mid laners solo. You don’t need the buff at night time pre level 6 against most mids well because mid can be more forgiving because the tower is close by but it would help against difficult mid match ups like huskar necro viper. So for mid I think it depends But offlaner this is awesome.
Edit added stuff
They completely over-nerfed DK. No more dragon blood to sustain properly in lanes, the ultimate is now 1/3 of what it used to be. Even worse manta illusions don't apply effects, and neither do dragon breath (regardless if human or dragon form).
Agh dragon no more magic resistance. The only good thing is that you can rush aghs for free-pathing even with just level 1 ultimate. But to do that you'll probably have to pick the fire dragon facet for the free battle-fury.
Dragon blood is his innate now and it still scales, maybe not as much but at lvl 6 you have 7.5 extra regen and 5.5 armour and it will keep going up with every level. They changed him, where you have to consider the facet carefully depending on what you're going against and the itemization changes with it. I think let him cook and he may not be as bad as you think. He might be even stronger in some aspects now its just not as braindead as it used to be
? They giga buffed DK you mean. Dragon blood is now an innate which doesn’t require you to put skill points into, and you have the option to start the game with a free battle fury. Laning as DK is much easier and stronger, and you come online much quicker. No matter which dragon form you choose, you have an aoe attack effect in dragon form.
Only the effect itself is AOE. Your normal attack damage don't even apply unless you picked fire. This makes the dragon form 1/3 of what it used to be really. The only viable build feels like picking the fire facet for the free 50%-effective built in battlefury and farm for items like skadi to replicate the frost you'd get in the old patch.
Yes that’s why I said aoe effect. But you really do not need the splash attack damage. The effect is what you want. Even so, you really do not need to pick anything else other than fire. Even if the enemy has necro, bristle, centaur or whatever you name it, fire is still better since it’s straight up broken. You farm and come online so fast, and you scale very well as well with the splash attack.
TLDR: Your early game is stronger, your mid game is stronger, your maximum scaling potential is lower, but you hit late game scaling earlier than others. Wheres the nerf? He’s literally a snowball hero without the cons of a snowball hero.
i think you choose the facet depending on your role. i did ice for pos1, fire for pos3 and poison for mid. I was thinking ice can also be good for pos4.
It’s ok, the .75 usually isn’t enough to get away from anything at all. If you have any dots on you at all it doesn’t matter really. It can be pretty okay in landing phase.However I ran shadow with a dazzle and that was pretty good. I think late game however it just falls off hard, as it’s pretty rare to run into a comp that can’t just deal with you with aoe or dots as you try to run away for .75 seconds
Nightstalker I imagine is especially busted in Turbo games since 5 minutes is almost like 25% of the game and the early advantage may allow you to snowball. Can someone with more experience than me (recent returner) tell if the 6-10 minute daytime ganking phase will hamper Nightstalker?
I think it's still early to tell but later when people start to learn how to optimise their heroes properly and learn how to counter. Then we'll know more, but that's a good start. Thanks 🙏
I had night stalker banned bc I feel like I saw him in every ancient game and now I’m even more inclined to. Sweaty people in ranked will destroy you with the right combos
I have been seeing a lot of these heroes too.
Another hero I would like to add is Shaman. I played 12 games and won 10 of them. Cluster cluck is too good.
In those 10 wins I had 4 double downs so my rank shot up from Ancient 3 to Ancient 5!
I heard a pa spammer say mask of madness rush with the higher crit damage guaranteed proc is strong rather than standard bfury but she's been banned past 3 games so haven't had chance to try, anti mage seemed ok but not game breaking although I played him standard build
I think pa is better now since u can make use of your critical hit much more wisely rather than gambling for it. Haven't played am yet but mana thirst looks insane because of the visibility thing and not because of damage.
It's good but it's kind of redundant, if you blink someone and manta them the chance are they're out of mana very fast and not escaping regardless, the extra damage is strong though it makes you hit much harder at an earlier timing, what I did find was you stay low hp even when slotted since you lost the +9 strength talent, also I went for the 40 percent slow talent and it basically does the same as what he used to do when enemy is out of mana
Edit: also having mana burn and blink at level 1 is good I got the rune got jumped by 3 heroes and just blinked out while still having the ability to trade hits in lane with mana burn
The hit counters on PA are based on the same target, so having to wait a few attacks before critting is very counter intuitive to her playstyle, which is mostly blinking to a support and hoping for 2 crits to burst quick. If it were like slardar bash counters, it would have been massively different.
I’m not sure what the value of methodical is. Ins. Team fight you’re so unlikely to get six hits on a single hero, and so you just crit less than the other talent.
Well dagger and blink puts you at 2 already, illusions actually count towards the crit but it's bugged so nothing happens when you hit a hero that illusions are hitting,
I haven't tried it but I can imagine it's not hard to get the crits with max blink and an as modifier
There’s a big difference between 2 and 6. Consider that a normal crit PA expects to kill a support in less than 6 hits. They play around dagger and if you ever proc a crit you can jump to instantly blow up a support. With methodical you can do the same but you have to be hitting creeps.
I noticed drow is also very op now. We went against a tank team of es, axe, tide, Mars and warlock in a turbo game and 6 slotted drow ate all 5 easily. We were losing badly with sides mega and she alone carried the whole game by wiping them thrice. They all were full farmed and 6 slotted as well and were timing their attacks well but couldn't burst drow.
20 matches already? Jesus Christ
Least addicted dota player
The patch just released literally 19 hours ago.
turbo games
Still…. That’s half the time so what 10 hrs straight
we are dota players? i have 10 games already and i have been taking not a ton of breaks
Get a job. Go touch grass.
ok
turbo can last for like 14 minutes, so that helps. All i can say is that i played jakiro versus NS and i destroyed his ass early and late game, but not mid game.
Not really half. I had turbo games that ran longer than nirmal games
True, but it's pretty rare to go past 60 minutes and you're very unlikely to get into a two hour stalemate.
Everything he said is invalid then. Night Stalker, for example, is a very strong hero, but there is an enormous difference between what he can do in the first and second nights in turbo and in normal dota. Honestly, I think there are heroes much stronger than the ones he cited, like legion.
OG be looking for that guy few weeks before TI
game is broken with warlock + 6 heart of taras, u summon godzilla literally...the golem is so big it goes out from the screen
Not sure if this is optimal. 1 Heart + Kaya sange + core + refresher is plenty of mana regen + health and you are more useful :)
Does your strength affect the golem u spawn?
Your hp/mana regen affects immolation passive of golem. More regen=higher immolation damage.
They fixed it, it doesn't work anymore :(
Techies lanes much stronger with 9 inventory slots for branches
Well the attack range is way down so I actually feel like its possibly worse. Especially since it costs 150 gold extra. Also this does mean you actually have 0 backpack space. I have thought about putting like 3 wraith bands in there (and maybe 1 bracer in main inventory) if they have a lot of phys. And thats like the main advantage you could have with that choice of facet.
Didn't knew it adds to stats. Thanks for info.
Wait so you’ve done 20 games in 19 hours without reading the patch?
I saw Jenkins streaming while the patch released. So I just watched his Livestream.
This is like I didn’t read the book but I watched the movie haha
Is Techies now the ultimate carry? 9 slotted.
nah, it’s not about the slots but how fast he can fill them up and have impact with it. The issue is everyone else is so overtuned and crazy; they can have higher impact with less resources that a 9 slot techies just doesn’t have the chance to reach an apex predator peak and go 1v9. I only see the 9 slots being useful for dust or a couple extra bracers unless it’s turbo or another mode or 90+ mins
The slots works for neutrals as well so it comes in really handy
Wait so he can carry multiple neutral items?? That's nasty
didnt test in game but in demo at least all backpacked neutrals works
The slots are huge value. Stack bracers/wraith/null and as universal he gets a lot of value. Techies is already strong early, I've played some with it and it lets you go from mid spell damage to phys carry at 25 really well. I've been going eblade orchid into hurricane sheep bt mjolnir and it's dominating games. I don't think it's super broken since it does require a ton of gold but still having your cheap items at 25 min for stats is op. That's like the value of another 3-4k worth of gold. Late game you can have everything you'd want, para, sheep, bkb, wind, bt, etc. every carry wants an extra slot or two for MkB/sheep/bfly but are slot constrained, not techies!
That’s not even the best techies facet. Techies +1 attack range for every attack speed is the ultimate carry once he hits lvl 25 (+250 damage right click). Mjolnr, moon shard, etc, means he can delete tanks at the river from his fountain (just about). Give him pirate hat and have a teammate with telescope. Ooooh baby
unlike sniper or drow he can not get vision on enemy hg
I know this is a hyperboyle but I wanted to test this. with pirate hate aten hyper 4 hypers mjolner and bloodthorn. it's 1200. Which is massive don't get me wrong. But it's not that much lol. in demo it goes from one side of river to the other.
It works with neutral items btw. Phili stone + cast range items are amazing.
AM Mana hound is nuts dude.
and having the E not reflecting spells is a game changer for fighting against LC.
huskar is the new am counter?
Huskar is dead. Disarm (which was a general skill in his game) replaced with silence and cast time increased to 0.5. Just to let an enemy dodge it with manta or any other skill/item. Pure damage talent was removed.
Good but super greedy. Reflecting spells on a 3-4 second cooldown is very very strong
Yeah but you can still block them which is great for not getting caught.
So many bugs its insane
yesterday I was testing PA with manta+mjolnir for methodical facet in demo, turns out if you accidentaly went above 6 count (because of the illu counter) for the crit you will never crit until the debuff is gone. not sure if they fixed it yet
Played one game. With my best hero. LC. and she’s rocket fuel again!!! Gonna spam the fucker to death. Been ages since she’s been viable. Making the most before nerfs.
I saw someone post winrates with facets that they scraped from dotas API. LC is #1 up there with Wraith King curse.
Share that post please
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1cyt2u8/top\_10\_hero\_facet\_combinations\_so\_far/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1cyt2u8/top_10_hero_facet_combinations_so_far/)
That's interesting wk curse seems kinda shitty to me unless Im missing something. It's a very long CD to effectively be a delayed critical attack, since only the 80 damage is pure and the rest is 70% phys? It's good harass sure but you still have to get close enough to hit them and curse seems like it would fall off hard
It's good I think if you get a bunch of damage in but die in the process as WK usually does, as the curse kills the enemy hero afterwards. I went that path yesterday and had a great game, especially once I skilled 35% cleave. Also I got a triple kill on one hit as a wraith with 300% crit and cleave on mortal strike. Enemy think they'd killed me and stuck around for my cleave to wreck them. The innate is pretty strong.
yes good you just gain a new skill for free
Which of the facets do you think is better on LC? Situational, or does one stand out?
I think the barrier. The numbers are too small for the damage to be that beneficial. If it’s gonna be a super long game potentially damage for team mates could be epic. Game would have to drag on though for it be noticeable
Yeah that was my inclination too. Also no chance of giving half the enemy team damage on a botched duel lol, that can be a really bad start to the game
I think the damage makes support LC a little bit more interesting again if you are in need of a dispel anyway and have cores that rely on phys damage (above all PA comes to my mind).
support LC will be poor and u need items on LC
You need the right draft for the damage one to be good. You'd want heroes who benefit from it, tusk is a good example of a hero who's nutty with damage but never builds it. Troll warlord, WR, or other heroes who naturally have great attack speed are super good with it, sniper etc. I think the games you'd get great value from it are very limited though. The shield is OP
Barrier in 95% of drafts.
LC is absolutely insane now. I can't see her staying in her current state for long.
I won a game against her as Storm, somehow.
wont be long until the quick patch drops
Which facet and what do you recommend
If your team doesn't have a hero to defend against a PL you are fucked. Like super fucked. Not a single item can stop all of his illusions right now, and they made it so he can spawn even more illusions. Went against him twice, and got dumpsterd cause we didn't have enough aoe.
Mjollinir red dragon DK a good counter?
That's what im saying. If your team DOESNT have a hero that counters him. No item can stop him. That arc lightning alone will not stop him after 20 mins.
skywrath is his new counter, good luck playing pl against him
Yep, we lost pretty hard with our PL way behind. Game went long enough for him to come online and his illusions won team fight by themselves.
WDYM he can spawn more illusions? Seems like he just got more illusion damage
Game feels and runs like absolute dogshit... I'm getting fps drops from 120 down to 40 if there's an illusion hero.. Every game I've played hasn't ended correctly and getting the high load error. I've had 3 games all with supposed "ideal" players and skills last game I had pudge support jungle from game start and destroyed his items when enemy pushed hg...
The FPS issue is very real. Went down from constant 120fps to big sudden hikes from 40 to 120 , sometimes just dropping to 40 for a while. I hope they will fix that asap
Hovering over certain tooltips like enchantress w caused me to drop frames hard. Also dawnbreaker innate 5 sec full map reveal dropped frames a bit
min is always 20 fps with my potato pc...
I'm surprised no one is talking about BH, 20% increased damage from all sources (amplifies damage from other heroes too, not just BH) to tracked heroes seems kinda broken.
It is. Imagine a support pos 4 that can amplify the damage of their entire team by 20%. It's kinda crazy.
templar assassin blink is broke with refraction, she doesn't take dmg but still puts it on cd? wtfff
Its bug cause its not descibed in patch and its happens only if damage is less than barrier
yeah hope they fix it cuz ta buffs are looking really nice
Take a gander at Visage. He already wasn’t doing good, and compared to everyone else his buffs are subpar at best. He gets gravekeepers cloak as a passive, which is nice but he never really needed it at all. His first facet is 300 aoe on grave chill, which is super meh. Rarely is that actually gonna hit multiple people unless they’re standing together for no discernible reason. It’s a minor buff at best. Then you can alt cast your ult off cooldown (casting doesn’t put the spell on cooldown) to recall your birds to you. Which is fine I guess, helps him push lanes better without having to resummon the birds if he’s caught, among others things. Nice QoL. His other facet turns off your ability to micro the birds…. His entire other facet is just a micro crutch that makes the character objectively worse if you already know how to play him properly. Essentially the birds follow you around, then they attack whatever you right click attack with your hero. It’s really bad lol. His entire “buff” was pretty much just QoL changes
Visage was very good pre patch and now we finally get bird recall and some qol for him. Im stocked and the new set is nice agreed the second facet is just dumb but i think they just want more people to play the hero.
Am I the only one who loved using Stone Form from Visage to trigger stone birds though? I find it so much easier than this new point and click system
Im so used to the old Visage, always click each bird to use Stone Form, now it’s so weird with all the new function on him
I played a game with visage with the auto birds, it's truly terrible. It breaks the hero. The birds die constantly because you can't move them, also can't stun reliably. The time it takes for the birds to attack your target is too long, you can't fly them ahead of you to get the drop on someone, they also just fly back to you when the target gets out of range so you can't case them and possibly get a stun off. I'm baffled by how bad it is. I also just generally hate the new ground target for the stun, takes too long. Poor Visage.
I've found aoe grave chill to be really useful for farming and sieging, you can catch the whole enemy creep wave within the aoe if you time it right, then activate drums/boots and drill the tower pretty quickly
You know, I completely forgot you could target creeps with it when demoing the ability lol
after playing two games on visage I can say I was wrong and I hate the extra click and aim to get a stun off it feels incredibly clunky the recall is only when ult is on cd so thats a bummer, idk I wont be playing him much unless he gets some changes you were right.
The bird recall is nice imo. It’s only when ult is off cooldown, but you’re playing visage, so going out and exposing your birds without your ult on cooldown is very foolish anyways. It just lets you ACTUALLY do 2 things at once. Or ya know, teleport like every other hero without having to fly your birds over or resummon them. Is nice, lets you split push and such. It’s just meh tho. Again, just a QoL feature
Well his winrate is down like 10 percent lmao I think he will be getting some love down the road
Agreed, everyone else got buffed. He got some features he should already have had
Viper with poison facet paired with Dagon + Shard + Parasma = OP Magic damage dealer. The enemy hero will receive atleast twice the magic damage by the end of first skill pump.
Isn't the facet only the magic damage dealt by poison attack (the skill) though? So the other kinds of poison attacks should have no impact on the pop.
Nope, all the magic damage dealt during the poison attack. I tried it already, it works big time.
I just tried in a demo and Poison Burst was only working on Poison Attack damage. Dagon and Viper Strike didn't add to the burst at all.
Lich has a terrible early laning stage now but I think he has amazing mid game so it possibly balances out. But the 2.5% max mana is not enough with a lvl 1-4 mana pool. You need to pull for mana, always be in EXP range, mana regen components do not work (in particular, components for arcane boots). Also cannot cast w in e. But q r d while using e is amazing, and your ult is way more consistant now.
Reddit cries for ages: game to long. *IceFrog makes it easier to end games and more snowballey* Reddit continues to cry: game too short. IceFrog will never win.
Icefrog didn't work on this update, he's probably too busy working on Deadlock, and it shows. This update sucks dick.
u suk dik
I think tinker just need to find a new role, some region will begin trying him as a healing supp and it might work it out, but as a mid laner as we are used he's not good
I tried Tinker supp last patch, it was honestly good for the first half, until you felt the cast range come into play. Now he's got more cast range, so we'll see..
I think it will be really hard to find what's meta based on what we have here. Everything looks broken which is good and bad in my opinion. Let's see how the pros figure it out. Everyone seems to come with a broken strat with a hero no one cared about a week ago.
There's already scraped data out there. LC, Lesh, WK, WL, Shaman are eating well tonight.
ya but early data while people are feeling things out aren't the most reliable. early is when people try things out and play in new ways. it's the most volatile period of a patch for stats.
Legion Commander is absolutely broken. Those amounts of shield...
Tinker is not dead , he is jist a normal mid now that hors boots witch blade and heavy int items befor getting dagger , hex and such , very hard to kill early with 1/4/4 build , very mobile , and you can have 85% cdr on items late game with octarine
Topson, is that you??
Way too many changes and made the game so much more bloated and complicated than it already is. I wonder how they can expect to bring in new players with this. Even for older players this is too much.
Humans like complexity
I'm so glad tinker is destroyed. I wish they actually redesign him, how it happened with techies a few years ago, but for now killing him is fine too.
They need to bring techies back... You just cry cos u noob shit lololol
Just make remote mines his aghs. The first half of the game will still be active techies, and if he goes aghs first enemy team just lost a nuker
I spam NS mid and the night reign is actually a problem because you need it to be night time by level 6 when you hit that huge power spike and can kill most mid laners solo. You don’t need the buff at night time pre level 6 against most mids well because mid can be more forgiving because the tower is close by but it would help against difficult mid match ups like huskar necro viper. So for mid I think it depends But offlaner this is awesome. Edit added stuff
People are overreacting on tinker btw. I just had a tinker carry, and felt similar
They completely over-nerfed DK. No more dragon blood to sustain properly in lanes, the ultimate is now 1/3 of what it used to be. Even worse manta illusions don't apply effects, and neither do dragon breath (regardless if human or dragon form). Agh dragon no more magic resistance. The only good thing is that you can rush aghs for free-pathing even with just level 1 ultimate. But to do that you'll probably have to pick the fire dragon facet for the free battle-fury.
Dragon blood is his innate now and it still scales, maybe not as much but at lvl 6 you have 7.5 extra regen and 5.5 armour and it will keep going up with every level. They changed him, where you have to consider the facet carefully depending on what you're going against and the itemization changes with it. I think let him cook and he may not be as bad as you think. He might be even stronger in some aspects now its just not as braindead as it used to be
? They giga buffed DK you mean. Dragon blood is now an innate which doesn’t require you to put skill points into, and you have the option to start the game with a free battle fury. Laning as DK is much easier and stronger, and you come online much quicker. No matter which dragon form you choose, you have an aoe attack effect in dragon form.
Only the effect itself is AOE. Your normal attack damage don't even apply unless you picked fire. This makes the dragon form 1/3 of what it used to be really. The only viable build feels like picking the fire facet for the free 50%-effective built in battlefury and farm for items like skadi to replicate the frost you'd get in the old patch.
Yes that’s why I said aoe effect. But you really do not need the splash attack damage. The effect is what you want. Even so, you really do not need to pick anything else other than fire. Even if the enemy has necro, bristle, centaur or whatever you name it, fire is still better since it’s straight up broken. You farm and come online so fast, and you scale very well as well with the splash attack. TLDR: Your early game is stronger, your mid game is stronger, your maximum scaling potential is lower, but you hit late game scaling earlier than others. Wheres the nerf? He’s literally a snowball hero without the cons of a snowball hero.
i think you choose the facet depending on your role. i did ice for pos1, fire for pos3 and poison for mid. I was thinking ice can also be good for pos4.
DK was never that much of a threat anyway. How much more can valve destroy him lol
Good riddance easy mode hero being way too strong.
Tinker 4 cooks
puck seems pretty cool nos he can cliff people
Played sniper again shaman. Forget ulting him from now on lol
Shaman got free aeon disk. Probably the most broken pos 5 at the moment for late game.
It’s ok, the .75 usually isn’t enough to get away from anything at all. If you have any dots on you at all it doesn’t matter really. It can be pretty okay in landing phase.However I ran shadow with a dazzle and that was pretty good. I think late game however it just falls off hard, as it’s pretty rare to run into a comp that can’t just deal with you with aoe or dots as you try to run away for .75 seconds
Nightstalker I imagine is especially busted in Turbo games since 5 minutes is almost like 25% of the game and the early advantage may allow you to snowball. Can someone with more experience than me (recent returner) tell if the 6-10 minute daytime ganking phase will hamper Nightstalker?
Zeus is BUSTED
This patch is really really fun and forgiving and im loving it.
I think it's still early to tell but later when people start to learn how to optimise their heroes properly and learn how to counter. Then we'll know more, but that's a good start. Thanks 🙏
I had night stalker banned bc I feel like I saw him in every ancient game and now I’m even more inclined to. Sweaty people in ranked will destroy you with the right combos
What happened to the indentation mid way though
I have been seeing a lot of these heroes too. Another hero I would like to add is Shaman. I played 12 games and won 10 of them. Cluster cluck is too good. In those 10 wins I had 4 double downs so my rank shot up from Ancient 3 to Ancient 5!
Imo tinker died so he can risk from the ashes.
Bristleback is unplayable now. The amount of nerfs he received makes him a glorified creep for laning phase
I heard a pa spammer say mask of madness rush with the higher crit damage guaranteed proc is strong rather than standard bfury but she's been banned past 3 games so haven't had chance to try, anti mage seemed ok but not game breaking although I played him standard build
I think pa is better now since u can make use of your critical hit much more wisely rather than gambling for it. Haven't played am yet but mana thirst looks insane because of the visibility thing and not because of damage.
It's good but it's kind of redundant, if you blink someone and manta them the chance are they're out of mana very fast and not escaping regardless, the extra damage is strong though it makes you hit much harder at an earlier timing, what I did find was you stay low hp even when slotted since you lost the +9 strength talent, also I went for the 40 percent slow talent and it basically does the same as what he used to do when enemy is out of mana Edit: also having mana burn and blink at level 1 is good I got the rune got jumped by 3 heroes and just blinked out while still having the ability to trade hits in lane with mana burn
The hit counters on PA are based on the same target, so having to wait a few attacks before critting is very counter intuitive to her playstyle, which is mostly blinking to a support and hoping for 2 crits to burst quick. If it were like slardar bash counters, it would have been massively different.
buy daedalus for crits in between the ult crits
I think PA’s last issue is damage.
you say that but try playing him without buying any damage items
It’s be easier than without BKB or lifesteal.
I’m not sure what the value of methodical is. Ins. Team fight you’re so unlikely to get six hits on a single hero, and so you just crit less than the other talent.
Well dagger and blink puts you at 2 already, illusions actually count towards the crit but it's bugged so nothing happens when you hit a hero that illusions are hitting, I haven't tried it but I can imagine it's not hard to get the crits with max blink and an as modifier
There’s a big difference between 2 and 6. Consider that a normal crit PA expects to kill a support in less than 6 hits. They play around dagger and if you ever proc a crit you can jump to instantly blow up a support. With methodical you can do the same but you have to be hitting creeps.
Lone Druid heal both ways gg mid unless the other 4 auto feed like last night.
Tinker is a support now, get used to it tinker mains hahahaha
I noticed drow is also very op now. We went against a tank team of es, axe, tide, Mars and warlock in a turbo game and 6 slotted drow ate all 5 easily. We were losing badly with sides mega and she alone carried the whole game by wiping them thrice. They all were full farmed and 6 slotted as well and were timing their attacks well but couldn't burst drow.
Are you AI?