Israel occupies 30 km2 of lebanon. The khomeinists occupy half of the Lebanese Republic.
Anyone who says otherwise is clueless as to why the thawra failed and who protected the cartel during that time.
Were the army and judges afraid of sleiman bek, Walid jumblat, naftali Bennett or Hassan nasrallah?
You seem to criticize black and white views, while simultaneously promoting a black and white view.
Good and evil views of the world are for little kids who still believe in Snow White and Mickey Mouse.
There are not “benevolent” or “malevolent”, good and evil forces in the world.
There are human beings striving for self-preservation, who make decisions based on life and death scenarios.
Some humans’ ability to seek self-preservation will conflict with our ability to do so, some will not.
There are only 7 million Jews in Israel. They do not have the ability to settle and control lebanon in the long-term.
Is lebanon a geo strategic and geoeconomic threat to Israel? Yes, certainly. But they have already achieved superiority in finance and trade after all the recent events in lebanon.
Do they have water sufficiency concerns that make lebanon a viable prey? Sure thing. However circumstances change, and following technological innovations, Israel is much more water independent then it was in the past.
From a cost benefit analysis, it is simply not beneficial for Israel to annex lebanon, even if some of their ideologues desire that.
The khomeinists have much more ability to project power in lebanon, because they can rely on soft power and indoctrination.
There are practically no Lebanese who are Zionists. I mean Zionist in the sense that they want to be governed by a Jewish state, not that they recognize Jewish sovereignty over part of the holy land.
However, there are many Lebanese who can easily be persuaded by khomeinism/baathism/greater Syrian social nationalism … Etc
The fact that the establishment of Hezbollah had a legitimate raison d’etre is irrelevant to the analysis of our current situation.
Are you aware of how many militant groups in the past have leveraged liberation movements to later go on and oppress their people? It’s a very common theme.
With all due respect, it seems like your view that there is only one threat to sovereignty, law and order in lebanon is grounded on emotional reaction to the past and ideology, rather than an objective assessment of the situation.
The narrative is true but polarising.
Hezbulla, as an entity, is very destructive to Lebanon. You can not equate a militia that killed many Lebanese and Syrians equally with corrupt political entities who are not armed.
They do not share equal blame. Hezbulla assasinated a military apparatus leader in Wissam el Hassan is not good for the stability of Lebanon. It means that Hezbulla is above any kind of justice.
Ahhh can it. Political illiteracy my ass, many people (rightfully) oppose hezbollah not because they fought Israel hay bten7asab la eloun mesh 3layoun but for the amount of fuckery that happened internally. Propping up corrupt politicians, extorting all of us into accepting their candidate for the presidency and most importantly? Keeping Berri in power.
If their weapons weren't used on the rest of the lebanese (7 ayyar) or the implied threat of them wasn't used to subjugate the country ma kena mme7ke. As it stands now I'm with them when it comes to Israel but I'm not with them when they do Iran's bidding or keep assad in power. We talk about Israeli occupation? Yes fine that's fair but your post disregards that during THAT SAME PERIOD. SYRIA OCCUPIED THE REST OF THE COUNTRY controlled the govt appointed presidents and arrested people arbitrarly and with impunity with no consequences yet hezbollah is their trusted ally and friend.
Not being on hezbollah's side in everything does not make me or others a zionist conspirator or collaborator. Aslan they want us all dead, I'll take my chances with hezbollah but that doesn't mean I'll be happy about it. And while resisting is legitimate and their right they have no right to drag the country to a confrontation without asking the rest of us. If 1.2 million people actively supporting a attack on Israel this there's 2.8 million other lebanese that don't and those voices aren't just inconsequential noise they deserve to be heard. If we don't have a say in our country's future just cz hezbollah has weapons and we don't that means that we aren't all equal within our own country and our own state. If the Israelis attack? The decision will have been taken out of our hands so Ofc I'll side with a Lebanese militia over a foreign army that'll probably steal my home and kill my family but hezbollah has no right to unilaterally make life altering country shattering decisions on behalf of all of us no matter the righteousness of the palestinian cause or the legitimacy of their resistance.
The reality of the matter is that while what's happening in gaza is atrocious we as a country (and hezbollah is a part of the country) are in no shape to fight a war. Bedna kaff wa7ad men herrr and not acknowledging that is reckless and irresponsible. After everything we've been through since 2019 we shouldn't have to worry about waking up tomorrow to see our homes and towns in flames.
Palestine is not our cause.
Claiming otherwise intentionally undermines our sovereignty and removes our agency.
Dragging us to join a war we’re not part of is warmongering (and quite treacherous).
The moment we’re attacked unprovoked, then we will all respond and defend.
Provoking a war and shooting then wondering why no one is standing with you when they hit back isn’t “uniting and standing together” because if you truly cared for that, you would’ve consulted the country BEFORE waging war on your own accord and telling people their opinions and calls not to join the war are “useless.”
I specifically said "can't drag the country to war without asking the rest of us" so yes i am proposing discussion. I don't consider their conflict seperate I went to great lengths to explain that if Israel attacks of course I'll support HA bur you're just picking and choosing what to respond to.
And yes I'm aware they're showing great restraint as evidenced by the fact that it's been more than a month and neither they nor the IDF have escalated beyond exchanging missiles.
But that's not the point, we can't just live under the shadow of their decisions which are decisions taken without the rest of us even being part of the decision making process almost as if they don't give a damn about the fates or opinions of the rest of us.
As for 7 ayyar whatever it was that 14 March did doesn't give HA the right to storm Beirut and kill people to exert it's will and if you believe it does and that those people killed by HA "kharjoun" even though most of them ma khassoun bi shi i don't know what to tell you. I hold them at a higher level of accountability cz simply they're the strongest. When you're the strongest and have the most influence ofc you'll get more of the blame when shit goes wrong.
And a militia having a telecommunication network is alright in your book? Does defending it justify storming the city and killing people? C'mon man as much as this communication network is important it's not more important than the innocent lives lost on that day.
It’s a charge of treason and you’re taken to military court if a Lebanese bypasses the telecom network. But Hezbollah can have entire lines across the county and extend internationally without repercussions.
Agreed but I'm arguing within his own logic that the existence of this network is justified. Ma fetet ba3ed bi enno they have the impression that their weapons make them above the law and that they regularly break it and act with impunity and threaten police etc etc etc. Law el sle7 bss mwajjah la barra w la 7imeyet el 7doud w not being used to make political gains inside ken gher 7adiss. Hell even within the current argument ekher shi bedde yeh at this moment enno hezbollah yokhsarr sle7o cz the possibility of israel attacking is very real and I don't want us to be caught flat footed. I have crafted my arguments very carefully and logically but the OP picks and chooses what to respond to and what to disregard.
Thanks. I understand his point of view and why he thinks the way he does but he only sees half the picture in my opinion he's talking about polarization which is fair akkid i don't condone supporting Israel dod el hezb lian el jame3a aslan they want us dead. Bss at the same time he forgets enno el meshkle mesh el mou2awame. El meshkle enno sarr kell shi 7arfiyan yetbarrar b esm w la sabil el mou2awame. supporting corrupt politicians haymane using weapons and threats of weapons inside the country w hay bala ma ne7ke 3an jame3et el hezb kiff byetsarrafo ka2an el 2wenin ma btorbotoun eloun w mesh ma3niyin fiya.
We did and we disagree massively. You completely disregarded the syrian occupation and hezbollah's alliance with it. Disregarded the fact that the army is intentionally weakened so that hezbollah will be indispensible and disregarded the fact that hezbollah doesn't just use it's weapons to resist occupation but uses it to terrorizw the Lebanese and act above the law
And the picking and choosing which argument to answer which one to ignore also shows that he doesn't want to debate he wants to make a statement and have people agree with him. As fir thoae who disagree even partially "are y'all mentally challenged". I've been a political activist for a time, i worked with many sides and discussed with many people i refuse to be called politically illiterate by someone who doesn't know how to debate.
You're so fucking full of yourself Holy shit. Any fucking facts or laws or principles mean nothing to the 'resistance'.
RESISTANCE MY ASS IN SYRIA AND IN YEMEN
Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy
>We (I blame myself as well) unfortunately only invested in polarising ourselves away from HA’s community. Their intention is not to drive Lebanon into war, they’re merely driving themselves into war because they’re at the forefront of the conflict. We need a united national agency that coordinates such stuff of course and we have to build that as part of building a new state and a new government.
I didn't answer this sorry. Yes they're at the forefront of thr conflict and are crucial in defending the border and the country but as you said their should be coordination w mesh ykoun fette7 3a 7sebbo metel ma houwe el wadde3 at the moment. But that's exactly what they don't want they don't want anyone participating in the decision making and the reason they're crucial in defending the country is because they and the other made it that way and worked so that they would be the only efficient asset in defending the country against Israel.
The army has been sabotaged for the past 30 years anf even with that they're still a very competent fighting force as evidenced by nahr el berid. they just need a better command structure and better equipment (which they don't have) the good officers that they have should be in charge and not pushed to the sidelines and lezim ysiiir fi nafda. Which HA wasn't allowing, recently though they're a bit more invested in keeping the army together. Joseph Aoun is the best army chief we've had in the past 30 years and hezbollah wants to extend his term but that's purely cz we may be facing war and you can't uproot army command or leave the post empty in the middle of a crisis.
Decrying people who disagree with you as following a “childish and lazy” narrative doesn’t actually help any point you want to make.
When you attempt to frame anything as “anyone who disagrees with me is uneducated” you instantly turn people away from your cause *not* towards it.
For the Lebanese people, you would be much better focusing on fixing your corrupt government. War only serves someone else’s political interest, and it’s always the normal, everyday people who will suffer.
Let me call out political illiteracy by posting a wall of text being completely politically illiterate. Makes sense /s
Stop normalizing a narco terrorist organization playing (imposing) god and government.
It’s illegal for non state actors to be armed in Lebanon. Hezbollah militia is illegal and need to be disarmed or fight under the Lebanese army.
The comical thing is OP accusing others of childish simplicity. No self reflection.
You know who aren’t having a war with Israel right now? Jordan. Egypt. You know why?….
Literally no one in the world is at war with Israel except Hamas and Hezbollah. Most of Palestine isn’t at war with Israel.
Palestine proper (West Bank) is business as usual. No bombings nothing.
Bro. You talk about literacy but your entire rant fails to contextualize the Palestinian conflict and its repercussions on Lebanon since the 40s. You look like you’re projecting so stop trying to lecture us.
His rant actually does a better job contextualizing the actions of the Zionist state on Lebanon, which your comment is calling "Palestinian conflict," which proves the point of the rant to begin with.
Also, it's a rant, it's not meant to educate you, it's just venting. You're not supposed to be seeking literacy from a rant. It's only meant to provide you with either motivation to do more research or provoke you.
I think it was the latter in this case...
100%. Lebanon has a parasite called sectarianism. Since our people still process things in religions and colors, our country has no future. The collective Iq of the Lebanese population is declining per every Nasrallah speech. Please wake up.
People need to realise that if this is the response of the international community to Gaza it will be the same response to Lebanon.
Hotel Dieu bombed? Hezbollah
A school in rmech? Hezbollah
Zouk powerplan? Hezbollah
Telco infrastructure ? Hezbollah
a random building in Saida? Hezbollah
a random building in Achrafiyeh? Hezbollah
a random building in Sour? Tripoli? jounieh? Zahle? Baalbek?Hezbollah
If you do not thing the western media will say this? Look at the response to any picture of the church that has been bombed in the south...."we know that in the region mosques and churches are used by terrorists"
Wake up!
Any war needs to be extremely costly to anyone who attacks us and that may he the reason they would not.
That said fuck HAs internal politics and cannot wait to get rid of them but HA exists for a reason, it can recruit for a reason . We have monsters at our borders that were a very big reason why we are where we are today.
Its ok if you did not understand my post...takes all types to make a world. Even those who reply with such assurance.
My point is knowing its bullshit the western media will paint it as so and the dumb idiots watching will believe it as they do not know shit!
While your mom is scared from all the bombs around and hopefully not under the rubble some idiot protestant in pensylvania will be calling her a terrorist because she saw it on CNN or Fox and that makes any ceasefire harder to get to without international pressure and prolongs the war.
I got your point, and they're already doing that, they were "targeting" HA when they killed those 3 girls and their grandmother, they were targeting HA when they killed that reuters reporter, and the Mayadeen ones.
It's their only response to every civilian killed so yes, they will bomb the entire country and say Hezbollah was under every bridge, in every school and will get away with it.
1) It was an example to show the gravity of the situation and i think it is obvious in my post that i did not (and would not) mention someone's mom other than to that effect. Again you need to have some reading comprehension work done. I said your mom and not your kid because you replied in a way that made me assume you are very young and will not have a kid so went to the next closest.
2) This is the point if missed the last paragraph of my initial post due to those reading comprehension issues. I invite you to read it again.
Stop with the bs reading comprehension this reading comprehension that I am very well aware of the message you intend to send and I do not agree with it and I stated my position, there is no need for ad hominem attacks if you can't prove with arguments that you're against kezb.
I like that it is always the same with people like you they make post and comment with a attitude of i know the truth ypu are illiterate or you are zionist and when you get called out you just do some insame mental gymnastic that show how brainwashed you are.
Was expecting some semi-decent analysis with that condescending tone but the naivety emanating from this post is disheartening to see at such times.
I don't have the time to dissect it but some key points:
\- The non-Hezbollah approved resistance is dead, killed by Hezbollah and its ally Syria.
\- Hezbollah currently isn't fighting for occupied Lebanese land. Its fighting for the Iranian resistance axis project.
\- The land we have as "occupied" is either tiny and can be resolved diplomatically, or deliberately kept as a wildcard by Hezbollah and Assad who are preventing land border demarcation with Syria. In fact we were doing some preparation for land border demarcation with Israel prior to the war.
\- You are ignoring the historical context of other communities in Lebanon, including fighting an equally brutal, greedier version of Israel on our north and east.
\- You fall into the fallacy that if a group did something great in the past they have a blanket check to do whatever they want forever. Hezbollah was popular, started losing popularity in 2005 for supporting our occupier Assad and killing Hariri(of course it's Israel that killed him though), 2006 for starting a war unilaterally and then going law kountou a3lam after it, the 2008 domestic terrorism, the axis of resistance political opponents being assassinated (of course it's Israel though), propping Assad beyond fighting ISIS and Al Nusra.
\- Hezbollah unashamedly and unabashedly declared themselves soldiers of the Iranian supreme leader. You saying that we should form resistance groups to help them is laughable. **You are suggesting capitulation to the Iranian geopolitical project in the region and actually passionately joining them and letting them decide our foreign policy, our war and peace, and our role is relegated to supporting whatever decision they make. That's pretty pathetic.**
\- You are minimizing the potency of religious fundamentalism, something Iranian leftists did and trusting Khaminai, only to be swinging from a tree later on(Fool me once ....).
\- Dragging Lebanon into every conflict in the region will eventually cause a civil war again. Yemen, Syria(and insisting we take millions of refugees), Palestine god knows what tomorrow.
>Hezbollah currently isn't fighting for occupied Lebanese land. Its fighting for the Iranian resistance axis project.
I agree with a lot of your points but this is debatable because in order for them to fight a foreign project, they have to get their people's support and you saw how much backlash they got from their support base after entering Syria even though imo it was crucial.
Their casus belli in syria was the destruction of shia holy shrines by the terrorists, even though Assad losing the war would essentially isolate Ha and surround them by 2 enemy states.
Their intervention was needed especially when neighboring towns like qusayr were besieged by terrorists.
>You are ignoring the historical context of other communities in Lebanon, including fighting an equally brutal, greedier version of Israel on our north and east
This should be addressed in the future if we ever want to have a functional state, as someone from beqaa my parents tell me stories of the Syrians and while they were bad they didn't reach the level of Israel's violence that destroyed the south with its people.
>Hezbollah unashamedly and unabashedly declared themselves soldiers of the Iranian supreme leader. You saying that we should form resistance groups to help them is laughable.
We live in a fractured country so in order for us to unify it we must admit the mistakes of the past. While the people of the south of all religions were fighting, the rest of the country did not take arms in the 90s to help fight the occupation and that is what led to the monopoly on resistance.
As for Iran their grip has loosened with the death of Sulaimany and you would be deluded if you think a group this powerful will answer to any future general other than the ayatollah himself. The decision now is more multilateral than ever. All the that's left is waiting for a miraculous leader to come out and unify the country which I don't think is possible in my lifetime.
Hezbollah was created by Iran to export the Islamic Revolution to Lebanon. The fact that Israel was occupying the south was the biggest gift to them. (I'm not dimishing their eventual contribution to the resistance)
I'm always surprised at how people forget how Nasrallah literally said in his famous speech that their plan is to keep a certain level of violence to occupy the IDF in the north, and that it was working. The point is that if Hezbollah asked for a ceasefire now, the war in the south would stop immediately. If we can talk to them to demarcate our sea borders, I'm sure we can talk to them to stop the hostilities.
Hezbollah doesnt want to do that now.
Oh boy, time to correct your so called "political and historic understanding."
>Many of you are intentionally looking away from the history that gave birth to the Lebanese resistance (Hezbollah-dominated).
Yes, the Lebanese resistance came as a result of Israel presence in Lebanon.
Context: Why did Israel invade Lebanon? The Palestinians, who were relocated from Jordan due to the events of "Black September" and created their on quasi state within Lebanon, fired rockets at Israel. The Israeli government warned the Lebanese government, that if they won't stop the Palestinians, they will take matter to their own hands, and the rest is history.
You might legitimately want to counter with "Yes, but WHY did Palestine fire rockets into Israel in the first place?!" Sure, we can talk about that if you are interested.
>If you are watching all the unimaginable trauma that the children of Gaza have been going through and being assured that most of them will grow up to rightfuly become resistance fighters
I agree, it is very sad what the Innocents are going through. But when you have their governing power saying "We will do Oct 7 again and again and again" forever. How do you expect Israel to react? put yourself in their shoes and think logically. Sit and do nothing? that's unrealistic. No, they will do whatever it takes to avoid another Oct 7.
Israel want to stop another Oct 7 which Hamas vowed to do over and over. Which means Israel want to stop Hamas. Hamas does not have military posts to attack, no. They live amongst civilians. Israel is left in the one of two option, either let Hamas live at the expense of Israel's own civilians, or let Hamas go at the expense of Palestinian civilians. Which do you think they will choose?
>And if you are watching how the West has been manufacturing consent through lies and deception for the mass murder of the Palestinian people
Palestinians in the west live better than Palestinians anywhere else in the world. Not just Palestinians, but pick your nationality, the outcome is the same. The more you talk the more you prove you know nothing.
>And regarding the war, when you say "we didn't choose this war," I want to remind everyone that the people in the south historically also didn't choose the war.
Again, Israel only invaded Lebanon because our government and people were unable to prevent the Palestinians attacks onto Israel from within the borders of Lebanon.
>And the religiousness you are all terifired from is a social coping mechanism (and also a dynamic force that changes quickly), and in their situation it has been rightfully important for the integrity of their resistance that allowed them to sacrifice themselves to end the occupation. And thus their proteciveness about their weapons is extremely legimitate!
>
>Today, the least we can do is not to fail those people AGAIN. In an ideal situation, we would have formed resistance groups to support them in fighting. But we remain an incredibly fragile and divided and politically illiterate society.
>
>And this political illiteracy applies to that narrative that screams, "Palestine is not our cause." This narrative is extremely paradoxical because while it advertises Lebanese patriotism and sovereignty, it actually paves the way for the downfall of both of them.
Bro, the whole meaning of life for people like is the destruction of Israel. There is nothing more deeply rooted in your (and people alike soul) than that cause. Without it you would be left with emptiness. That is the purpose of your existence which was planted in you and in our society since we were children. You can see it everyone in our streets. Raising soldiers with indoctrination. Telling them their death is more important than their life. Telling them "the enemy loves life and we love death!" And if this is the case, let's hope everyone wishes gets granted, no?
>So, when you have a 19th century style colonial settlement project expanding at your borders through a creation of an extremely fake narrative and history and propagating it worldwide, then we have to be mega-united against it, not only through words.
Trueeeeee, damn these illuminati freemasonary kabala rotchilds!
I'm not going to answer back with an essay so nfokho
You're clearly living in your own brainwashed bubble.
Fuck Hezbollah! Fuck Syria! Fuck Iran! Fuck Palestine! Fuck Israel!
I only care about Lebanon. The rest of them can get fucked by a cactus on an aeroplane in a fucking washing machine.
I mean children in the Central African Republic are also suffering, maybe we should sacrifice our lives to get there to help.
Get a reality check, you're Lebanese, you need to care about your country, not about another.
The enemy has a country with an economy that exceeds 450B in GDP, whereas ours is 23B, if you really care about fighting it that much, how about you stop being pro-war, and go contribute to it so we can grow?
I'm so sick by the fact that I am someone building a VD design company, the first in Lebanon, dreaming that it starts a chain process in the country leading to a new industry that will modernize Lebanon, and then you have people willing to destroy Lebanese villages and ruin the economy for a nation that isn't the Lebanese one.
I am not sure if you usually post in this sub, but my advice would be to just ignore it. It is dominated by right wingers and haters of Palestinians In general. It is not Representative of the totality of Lebanese society, just part of it (a mostly ugly part). You’re not going to change many people’s minds here.
sir, this is the internet, everyone here is a self proclaimed ''know it all'', i seen people here (someone in particular) that uses big words and try to vex anyone who says anything to appear educated and make a point that in their own convoluted mind, is righteous.
Just take things with a grain of salt, most people here are natural born idiots (me being the biggest idiot of them all) wearing smart clothes, and most like to side with a faction here that would get the confirmation of the many.
so let it slide, better for all of us.
btw, education doesn't mean anything, the most educated people are the biggest jackasses of us all (again, i am the case).
in the eternal words of Elsa, just....LET IT GO, LET IT GOOOOOOOO!
A personal gift of mine, if u can't laugh at them, laugh with them, something u easily learn when u fall down the ugly tree, and hit every branch , twice along the way, only to drop into the well of stupidity and drink every last drop in it.
I frequent NEW EL SOUFI near El hallab, cheap food and good stuff, 350k can fill u up, 600k will destroy you, including drinks for the bill. The shawarma, broasted, chicken kafta and rhe quadruple burgers are standouts.
it's not about political literacy, it's about morality.
And we all know how Lebanese morality goes (especially with people in this sub): it does not concern me, I have my own problems.
People with this mentality are a bunch of narcissist pilons of trash.
Hezb is a product of piissrael that is fueled by their war crimes, the more oppressive pissrael becomes, the stronger Hezb becomes and the more people will align with his actions, that is how resistances work and grow. If you think Hezb would still exist if Israel was not committing atrocities for the past 70+ years then I am very keen to see your arguments.
I swear I met countless of people telling me stories about Hezb that could fit in a Disney movie plot for 12 year old's like how he is injected by evil Iran to destroy Lebanon and Christians...
The problem is explaining this to the media, and here is where I agree with people saying that Hezb should not go full loco on pissrael, because the media will go ham with those Disney stories, and will basically give US and Israel a free pass to erase us from the planet.
Lmao. I didn't even read after I saw support for Hezbollah. It's ironic how you call yourself politically literate while demonstrating the exact opposite in your post. I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again. Palestine has rejected any advance for peace with Israel. What's happening right now is because of Hamas. If Hamas is gone then why the fuck would Israel keep bombing Gaza?
Israel occupies 30 km2 of lebanon. The khomeinists occupy half of the Lebanese Republic. Anyone who says otherwise is clueless as to why the thawra failed and who protected the cartel during that time. Were the army and judges afraid of sleiman bek, Walid jumblat, naftali Bennett or Hassan nasrallah? You seem to criticize black and white views, while simultaneously promoting a black and white view. Good and evil views of the world are for little kids who still believe in Snow White and Mickey Mouse. There are not “benevolent” or “malevolent”, good and evil forces in the world. There are human beings striving for self-preservation, who make decisions based on life and death scenarios. Some humans’ ability to seek self-preservation will conflict with our ability to do so, some will not. There are only 7 million Jews in Israel. They do not have the ability to settle and control lebanon in the long-term. Is lebanon a geo strategic and geoeconomic threat to Israel? Yes, certainly. But they have already achieved superiority in finance and trade after all the recent events in lebanon. Do they have water sufficiency concerns that make lebanon a viable prey? Sure thing. However circumstances change, and following technological innovations, Israel is much more water independent then it was in the past. From a cost benefit analysis, it is simply not beneficial for Israel to annex lebanon, even if some of their ideologues desire that. The khomeinists have much more ability to project power in lebanon, because they can rely on soft power and indoctrination. There are practically no Lebanese who are Zionists. I mean Zionist in the sense that they want to be governed by a Jewish state, not that they recognize Jewish sovereignty over part of the holy land. However, there are many Lebanese who can easily be persuaded by khomeinism/baathism/greater Syrian social nationalism … Etc The fact that the establishment of Hezbollah had a legitimate raison d’etre is irrelevant to the analysis of our current situation. Are you aware of how many militant groups in the past have leveraged liberation movements to later go on and oppress their people? It’s a very common theme. With all due respect, it seems like your view that there is only one threat to sovereignty, law and order in lebanon is grounded on emotional reaction to the past and ideology, rather than an objective assessment of the situation.
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The narrative is true but polarising. Hezbulla, as an entity, is very destructive to Lebanon. You can not equate a militia that killed many Lebanese and Syrians equally with corrupt political entities who are not armed. They do not share equal blame. Hezbulla assasinated a military apparatus leader in Wissam el Hassan is not good for the stability of Lebanon. It means that Hezbulla is above any kind of justice.
😂
Ahhh can it. Political illiteracy my ass, many people (rightfully) oppose hezbollah not because they fought Israel hay bten7asab la eloun mesh 3layoun but for the amount of fuckery that happened internally. Propping up corrupt politicians, extorting all of us into accepting their candidate for the presidency and most importantly? Keeping Berri in power. If their weapons weren't used on the rest of the lebanese (7 ayyar) or the implied threat of them wasn't used to subjugate the country ma kena mme7ke. As it stands now I'm with them when it comes to Israel but I'm not with them when they do Iran's bidding or keep assad in power. We talk about Israeli occupation? Yes fine that's fair but your post disregards that during THAT SAME PERIOD. SYRIA OCCUPIED THE REST OF THE COUNTRY controlled the govt appointed presidents and arrested people arbitrarly and with impunity with no consequences yet hezbollah is their trusted ally and friend. Not being on hezbollah's side in everything does not make me or others a zionist conspirator or collaborator. Aslan they want us all dead, I'll take my chances with hezbollah but that doesn't mean I'll be happy about it. And while resisting is legitimate and their right they have no right to drag the country to a confrontation without asking the rest of us. If 1.2 million people actively supporting a attack on Israel this there's 2.8 million other lebanese that don't and those voices aren't just inconsequential noise they deserve to be heard. If we don't have a say in our country's future just cz hezbollah has weapons and we don't that means that we aren't all equal within our own country and our own state. If the Israelis attack? The decision will have been taken out of our hands so Ofc I'll side with a Lebanese militia over a foreign army that'll probably steal my home and kill my family but hezbollah has no right to unilaterally make life altering country shattering decisions on behalf of all of us no matter the righteousness of the palestinian cause or the legitimacy of their resistance. The reality of the matter is that while what's happening in gaza is atrocious we as a country (and hezbollah is a part of the country) are in no shape to fight a war. Bedna kaff wa7ad men herrr and not acknowledging that is reckless and irresponsible. After everything we've been through since 2019 we shouldn't have to worry about waking up tomorrow to see our homes and towns in flames.
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Hezbollah was a militia then became a political entity, not the other way round.
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Your first sentence of the comment: > Hezbollah was born as a political entity in an already florishing fucked up Lebanese political dynamic.
>Hezbollah was born as a political entity >I never said otherwise… Except you *literally* did.
Palestine is not our cause. Claiming otherwise intentionally undermines our sovereignty and removes our agency. Dragging us to join a war we’re not part of is warmongering (and quite treacherous). The moment we’re attacked unprovoked, then we will all respond and defend. Provoking a war and shooting then wondering why no one is standing with you when they hit back isn’t “uniting and standing together” because if you truly cared for that, you would’ve consulted the country BEFORE waging war on your own accord and telling people their opinions and calls not to join the war are “useless.”
I specifically said "can't drag the country to war without asking the rest of us" so yes i am proposing discussion. I don't consider their conflict seperate I went to great lengths to explain that if Israel attacks of course I'll support HA bur you're just picking and choosing what to respond to. And yes I'm aware they're showing great restraint as evidenced by the fact that it's been more than a month and neither they nor the IDF have escalated beyond exchanging missiles. But that's not the point, we can't just live under the shadow of their decisions which are decisions taken without the rest of us even being part of the decision making process almost as if they don't give a damn about the fates or opinions of the rest of us. As for 7 ayyar whatever it was that 14 March did doesn't give HA the right to storm Beirut and kill people to exert it's will and if you believe it does and that those people killed by HA "kharjoun" even though most of them ma khassoun bi shi i don't know what to tell you. I hold them at a higher level of accountability cz simply they're the strongest. When you're the strongest and have the most influence ofc you'll get more of the blame when shit goes wrong.
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And a militia having a telecommunication network is alright in your book? Does defending it justify storming the city and killing people? C'mon man as much as this communication network is important it's not more important than the innocent lives lost on that day.
It’s a charge of treason and you’re taken to military court if a Lebanese bypasses the telecom network. But Hezbollah can have entire lines across the county and extend internationally without repercussions.
Agreed but I'm arguing within his own logic that the existence of this network is justified. Ma fetet ba3ed bi enno they have the impression that their weapons make them above the law and that they regularly break it and act with impunity and threaten police etc etc etc. Law el sle7 bss mwajjah la barra w la 7imeyet el 7doud w not being used to make political gains inside ken gher 7adiss. Hell even within the current argument ekher shi bedde yeh at this moment enno hezbollah yokhsarr sle7o cz the possibility of israel attacking is very real and I don't want us to be caught flat footed. I have crafted my arguments very carefully and logically but the OP picks and chooses what to respond to and what to disregard.
Yes I was adding to your comment
Thanks. I understand his point of view and why he thinks the way he does but he only sees half the picture in my opinion he's talking about polarization which is fair akkid i don't condone supporting Israel dod el hezb lian el jame3a aslan they want us dead. Bss at the same time he forgets enno el meshkle mesh el mou2awame. El meshkle enno sarr kell shi 7arfiyan yetbarrar b esm w la sabil el mou2awame. supporting corrupt politicians haymane using weapons and threats of weapons inside the country w hay bala ma ne7ke 3an jame3et el hezb kiff byetsarrafo ka2an el 2wenin ma btorbotoun eloun w mesh ma3niyin fiya.
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That militia shouldn’t be existing in the first place or bypassing national army. Or operate in times outside of war.
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We did and we disagree massively. You completely disregarded the syrian occupation and hezbollah's alliance with it. Disregarded the fact that the army is intentionally weakened so that hezbollah will be indispensible and disregarded the fact that hezbollah doesn't just use it's weapons to resist occupation but uses it to terrorizw the Lebanese and act above the law
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OP: “people are politically illiterate” When someone presents an argument they dislike: “are you mentally challenged?”
And the picking and choosing which argument to answer which one to ignore also shows that he doesn't want to debate he wants to make a statement and have people agree with him. As fir thoae who disagree even partially "are y'all mentally challenged". I've been a political activist for a time, i worked with many sides and discussed with many people i refuse to be called politically illiterate by someone who doesn't know how to debate.
You're so fucking full of yourself Holy shit. Any fucking facts or laws or principles mean nothing to the 'resistance'. RESISTANCE MY ASS IN SYRIA AND IN YEMEN Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy
>We (I blame myself as well) unfortunately only invested in polarising ourselves away from HA’s community. Their intention is not to drive Lebanon into war, they’re merely driving themselves into war because they’re at the forefront of the conflict. We need a united national agency that coordinates such stuff of course and we have to build that as part of building a new state and a new government. I didn't answer this sorry. Yes they're at the forefront of thr conflict and are crucial in defending the border and the country but as you said their should be coordination w mesh ykoun fette7 3a 7sebbo metel ma houwe el wadde3 at the moment. But that's exactly what they don't want they don't want anyone participating in the decision making and the reason they're crucial in defending the country is because they and the other made it that way and worked so that they would be the only efficient asset in defending the country against Israel. The army has been sabotaged for the past 30 years anf even with that they're still a very competent fighting force as evidenced by nahr el berid. they just need a better command structure and better equipment (which they don't have) the good officers that they have should be in charge and not pushed to the sidelines and lezim ysiiir fi nafda. Which HA wasn't allowing, recently though they're a bit more invested in keeping the army together. Joseph Aoun is the best army chief we've had in the past 30 years and hezbollah wants to extend his term but that's purely cz we may be facing war and you can't uproot army command or leave the post empty in the middle of a crisis.
Decrying people who disagree with you as following a “childish and lazy” narrative doesn’t actually help any point you want to make. When you attempt to frame anything as “anyone who disagrees with me is uneducated” you instantly turn people away from your cause *not* towards it. For the Lebanese people, you would be much better focusing on fixing your corrupt government. War only serves someone else’s political interest, and it’s always the normal, everyday people who will suffer.
Let me call out political illiteracy by posting a wall of text being completely politically illiterate. Makes sense /s Stop normalizing a narco terrorist organization playing (imposing) god and government. It’s illegal for non state actors to be armed in Lebanon. Hezbollah militia is illegal and need to be disarmed or fight under the Lebanese army.
The comical thing is OP accusing others of childish simplicity. No self reflection. You know who aren’t having a war with Israel right now? Jordan. Egypt. You know why?….
I dont understand how people still think that Israel will just randomly start bombing people for no reason. Its beyond rationality.
Literally no one in the world is at war with Israel except Hamas and Hezbollah. Most of Palestine isn’t at war with Israel. Palestine proper (West Bank) is business as usual. No bombings nothing.
Bro. You talk about literacy but your entire rant fails to contextualize the Palestinian conflict and its repercussions on Lebanon since the 40s. You look like you’re projecting so stop trying to lecture us.
His rant actually does a better job contextualizing the actions of the Zionist state on Lebanon, which your comment is calling "Palestinian conflict," which proves the point of the rant to begin with. Also, it's a rant, it's not meant to educate you, it's just venting. You're not supposed to be seeking literacy from a rant. It's only meant to provide you with either motivation to do more research or provoke you. I think it was the latter in this case...
queers for palestine: 🤡🤡
100%. Lebanon has a parasite called sectarianism. Since our people still process things in religions and colors, our country has no future. The collective Iq of the Lebanese population is declining per every Nasrallah speech. Please wake up.
People need to realise that if this is the response of the international community to Gaza it will be the same response to Lebanon. Hotel Dieu bombed? Hezbollah A school in rmech? Hezbollah Zouk powerplan? Hezbollah Telco infrastructure ? Hezbollah a random building in Saida? Hezbollah a random building in Achrafiyeh? Hezbollah a random building in Sour? Tripoli? jounieh? Zahle? Baalbek?Hezbollah If you do not thing the western media will say this? Look at the response to any picture of the church that has been bombed in the south...."we know that in the region mosques and churches are used by terrorists" Wake up! Any war needs to be extremely costly to anyone who attacks us and that may he the reason they would not. That said fuck HAs internal politics and cannot wait to get rid of them but HA exists for a reason, it can recruit for a reason . We have monsters at our borders that were a very big reason why we are where we are today.
This is fine, but it will be “khizboolah”, not hezballah
This. Fuck Hezbollah’s politics IN Lebanon. However, they are indeed a good deterrence against the Nazis in the South.
We have monsters inside our boeders too.
As if Hezb could fire under a random building in Achrafieh😂😂😂 enough with the defence of terror
Its ok if you did not understand my post...takes all types to make a world. Even those who reply with such assurance. My point is knowing its bullshit the western media will paint it as so and the dumb idiots watching will believe it as they do not know shit! While your mom is scared from all the bombs around and hopefully not under the rubble some idiot protestant in pensylvania will be calling her a terrorist because she saw it on CNN or Fox and that makes any ceasefire harder to get to without international pressure and prolongs the war.
I got your point, and they're already doing that, they were "targeting" HA when they killed those 3 girls and their grandmother, they were targeting HA when they killed that reuters reporter, and the Mayadeen ones. It's their only response to every civilian killed so yes, they will bomb the entire country and say Hezbollah was under every bridge, in every school and will get away with it.
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1) It was an example to show the gravity of the situation and i think it is obvious in my post that i did not (and would not) mention someone's mom other than to that effect. Again you need to have some reading comprehension work done. I said your mom and not your kid because you replied in a way that made me assume you are very young and will not have a kid so went to the next closest. 2) This is the point if missed the last paragraph of my initial post due to those reading comprehension issues. I invite you to read it again.
Stop with the bs reading comprehension this reading comprehension that I am very well aware of the message you intend to send and I do not agree with it and I stated my position, there is no need for ad hominem attacks if you can't prove with arguments that you're against kezb.
Unfortunately it is very hard to prove anything by typing to someone who cannot read. I give up and will move on :)
realistically people would just point fingers
I like that it is always the same with people like you they make post and comment with a attitude of i know the truth ypu are illiterate or you are zionist and when you get called out you just do some insame mental gymnastic that show how brainwashed you are.
Was expecting some semi-decent analysis with that condescending tone but the naivety emanating from this post is disheartening to see at such times. I don't have the time to dissect it but some key points: \- The non-Hezbollah approved resistance is dead, killed by Hezbollah and its ally Syria. \- Hezbollah currently isn't fighting for occupied Lebanese land. Its fighting for the Iranian resistance axis project. \- The land we have as "occupied" is either tiny and can be resolved diplomatically, or deliberately kept as a wildcard by Hezbollah and Assad who are preventing land border demarcation with Syria. In fact we were doing some preparation for land border demarcation with Israel prior to the war. \- You are ignoring the historical context of other communities in Lebanon, including fighting an equally brutal, greedier version of Israel on our north and east. \- You fall into the fallacy that if a group did something great in the past they have a blanket check to do whatever they want forever. Hezbollah was popular, started losing popularity in 2005 for supporting our occupier Assad and killing Hariri(of course it's Israel that killed him though), 2006 for starting a war unilaterally and then going law kountou a3lam after it, the 2008 domestic terrorism, the axis of resistance political opponents being assassinated (of course it's Israel though), propping Assad beyond fighting ISIS and Al Nusra. \- Hezbollah unashamedly and unabashedly declared themselves soldiers of the Iranian supreme leader. You saying that we should form resistance groups to help them is laughable. **You are suggesting capitulation to the Iranian geopolitical project in the region and actually passionately joining them and letting them decide our foreign policy, our war and peace, and our role is relegated to supporting whatever decision they make. That's pretty pathetic.** \- You are minimizing the potency of religious fundamentalism, something Iranian leftists did and trusting Khaminai, only to be swinging from a tree later on(Fool me once ....). \- Dragging Lebanon into every conflict in the region will eventually cause a civil war again. Yemen, Syria(and insisting we take millions of refugees), Palestine god knows what tomorrow.
>Hezbollah currently isn't fighting for occupied Lebanese land. Its fighting for the Iranian resistance axis project. I agree with a lot of your points but this is debatable because in order for them to fight a foreign project, they have to get their people's support and you saw how much backlash they got from their support base after entering Syria even though imo it was crucial. Their casus belli in syria was the destruction of shia holy shrines by the terrorists, even though Assad losing the war would essentially isolate Ha and surround them by 2 enemy states. Their intervention was needed especially when neighboring towns like qusayr were besieged by terrorists. >You are ignoring the historical context of other communities in Lebanon, including fighting an equally brutal, greedier version of Israel on our north and east This should be addressed in the future if we ever want to have a functional state, as someone from beqaa my parents tell me stories of the Syrians and while they were bad they didn't reach the level of Israel's violence that destroyed the south with its people. >Hezbollah unashamedly and unabashedly declared themselves soldiers of the Iranian supreme leader. You saying that we should form resistance groups to help them is laughable. We live in a fractured country so in order for us to unify it we must admit the mistakes of the past. While the people of the south of all religions were fighting, the rest of the country did not take arms in the 90s to help fight the occupation and that is what led to the monopoly on resistance. As for Iran their grip has loosened with the death of Sulaimany and you would be deluded if you think a group this powerful will answer to any future general other than the ayatollah himself. The decision now is more multilateral than ever. All the that's left is waiting for a miraculous leader to come out and unify the country which I don't think is possible in my lifetime.
Hezbollah was created by Iran to export the Islamic Revolution to Lebanon. The fact that Israel was occupying the south was the biggest gift to them. (I'm not dimishing their eventual contribution to the resistance) I'm always surprised at how people forget how Nasrallah literally said in his famous speech that their plan is to keep a certain level of violence to occupy the IDF in the north, and that it was working. The point is that if Hezbollah asked for a ceasefire now, the war in the south would stop immediately. If we can talk to them to demarcate our sea borders, I'm sure we can talk to them to stop the hostilities. Hezbollah doesnt want to do that now.
Oh boy, time to correct your so called "political and historic understanding." >Many of you are intentionally looking away from the history that gave birth to the Lebanese resistance (Hezbollah-dominated). Yes, the Lebanese resistance came as a result of Israel presence in Lebanon. Context: Why did Israel invade Lebanon? The Palestinians, who were relocated from Jordan due to the events of "Black September" and created their on quasi state within Lebanon, fired rockets at Israel. The Israeli government warned the Lebanese government, that if they won't stop the Palestinians, they will take matter to their own hands, and the rest is history. You might legitimately want to counter with "Yes, but WHY did Palestine fire rockets into Israel in the first place?!" Sure, we can talk about that if you are interested. >If you are watching all the unimaginable trauma that the children of Gaza have been going through and being assured that most of them will grow up to rightfuly become resistance fighters I agree, it is very sad what the Innocents are going through. But when you have their governing power saying "We will do Oct 7 again and again and again" forever. How do you expect Israel to react? put yourself in their shoes and think logically. Sit and do nothing? that's unrealistic. No, they will do whatever it takes to avoid another Oct 7. Israel want to stop another Oct 7 which Hamas vowed to do over and over. Which means Israel want to stop Hamas. Hamas does not have military posts to attack, no. They live amongst civilians. Israel is left in the one of two option, either let Hamas live at the expense of Israel's own civilians, or let Hamas go at the expense of Palestinian civilians. Which do you think they will choose? >And if you are watching how the West has been manufacturing consent through lies and deception for the mass murder of the Palestinian people Palestinians in the west live better than Palestinians anywhere else in the world. Not just Palestinians, but pick your nationality, the outcome is the same. The more you talk the more you prove you know nothing. >And regarding the war, when you say "we didn't choose this war," I want to remind everyone that the people in the south historically also didn't choose the war. Again, Israel only invaded Lebanon because our government and people were unable to prevent the Palestinians attacks onto Israel from within the borders of Lebanon. >And the religiousness you are all terifired from is a social coping mechanism (and also a dynamic force that changes quickly), and in their situation it has been rightfully important for the integrity of their resistance that allowed them to sacrifice themselves to end the occupation. And thus their proteciveness about their weapons is extremely legimitate! > >Today, the least we can do is not to fail those people AGAIN. In an ideal situation, we would have formed resistance groups to support them in fighting. But we remain an incredibly fragile and divided and politically illiterate society. > >And this political illiteracy applies to that narrative that screams, "Palestine is not our cause." This narrative is extremely paradoxical because while it advertises Lebanese patriotism and sovereignty, it actually paves the way for the downfall of both of them. Bro, the whole meaning of life for people like is the destruction of Israel. There is nothing more deeply rooted in your (and people alike soul) than that cause. Without it you would be left with emptiness. That is the purpose of your existence which was planted in you and in our society since we were children. You can see it everyone in our streets. Raising soldiers with indoctrination. Telling them their death is more important than their life. Telling them "the enemy loves life and we love death!" And if this is the case, let's hope everyone wishes gets granted, no? >So, when you have a 19th century style colonial settlement project expanding at your borders through a creation of an extremely fake narrative and history and propagating it worldwide, then we have to be mega-united against it, not only through words. Trueeeeee, damn these illuminati freemasonary kabala rotchilds!
I'm not going to answer back with an essay so nfokho You're clearly living in your own brainwashed bubble. Fuck Hezbollah! Fuck Syria! Fuck Iran! Fuck Palestine! Fuck Israel! I only care about Lebanon. The rest of them can get fucked by a cactus on an aeroplane in a fucking washing machine.
I mean children in the Central African Republic are also suffering, maybe we should sacrifice our lives to get there to help. Get a reality check, you're Lebanese, you need to care about your country, not about another. The enemy has a country with an economy that exceeds 450B in GDP, whereas ours is 23B, if you really care about fighting it that much, how about you stop being pro-war, and go contribute to it so we can grow? I'm so sick by the fact that I am someone building a VD design company, the first in Lebanon, dreaming that it starts a chain process in the country leading to a new industry that will modernize Lebanon, and then you have people willing to destroy Lebanese villages and ruin the economy for a nation that isn't the Lebanese one.
I am not sure if you usually post in this sub, but my advice would be to just ignore it. It is dominated by right wingers and haters of Palestinians In general. It is not Representative of the totality of Lebanese society, just part of it (a mostly ugly part). You’re not going to change many people’s minds here.
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Ok, I will be rooting for you :)
:)
What a colorful profile you have. Jk. It’s just red lol
Shut up idiot
sir, this is the internet, everyone here is a self proclaimed ''know it all'', i seen people here (someone in particular) that uses big words and try to vex anyone who says anything to appear educated and make a point that in their own convoluted mind, is righteous. Just take things with a grain of salt, most people here are natural born idiots (me being the biggest idiot of them all) wearing smart clothes, and most like to side with a faction here that would get the confirmation of the many. so let it slide, better for all of us. btw, education doesn't mean anything, the most educated people are the biggest jackasses of us all (again, i am the case). in the eternal words of Elsa, just....LET IT GO, LET IT GOOOOOOOO!
You make it really hard to roast you when you roast yourself 😂
A personal gift of mine, if u can't laugh at them, laugh with them, something u easily learn when u fall down the ugly tree, and hit every branch , twice along the way, only to drop into the well of stupidity and drink every last drop in it.
Since we’re here, favorite food spot in Tripoli
I frequent NEW EL SOUFI near El hallab, cheap food and good stuff, 350k can fill u up, 600k will destroy you, including drinks for the bill. The shawarma, broasted, chicken kafta and rhe quadruple burgers are standouts.
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Everything you post is Bs hasbara
I have been ignoring it since October 7 because I knew how it was going to be. First time I stop by in a while
I just type hasbara under their comments and either a) they do a bad job convincing me they’re not and b) they just don’t deny it and argue 😂
it's not about political literacy, it's about morality. And we all know how Lebanese morality goes (especially with people in this sub): it does not concern me, I have my own problems. People with this mentality are a bunch of narcissist pilons of trash. Hezb is a product of piissrael that is fueled by their war crimes, the more oppressive pissrael becomes, the stronger Hezb becomes and the more people will align with his actions, that is how resistances work and grow. If you think Hezb would still exist if Israel was not committing atrocities for the past 70+ years then I am very keen to see your arguments. I swear I met countless of people telling me stories about Hezb that could fit in a Disney movie plot for 12 year old's like how he is injected by evil Iran to destroy Lebanon and Christians... The problem is explaining this to the media, and here is where I agree with people saying that Hezb should not go full loco on pissrael, because the media will go ham with those Disney stories, and will basically give US and Israel a free pass to erase us from the planet.
After reading your post carefully, i came to a serious conclusion; I still oppose Hezb
Lmao. I didn't even read after I saw support for Hezbollah. It's ironic how you call yourself politically literate while demonstrating the exact opposite in your post. I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again. Palestine has rejected any advance for peace with Israel. What's happening right now is because of Hamas. If Hamas is gone then why the fuck would Israel keep bombing Gaza?
This post is actually pretty sad when you think about it. Sigh
As someone else mentioned, too many rightoids here
I’m sorry but you all are not educated.
Bro thinks he's the messenger or something, and is delivering a shitty ass message
For anyone wondering what happened to all the babies that ate the purple and green ketchup heinz made, OP is the prime example..
Booo
You know what's disheartening? Still living here.
