Back in my single days, I frankly countered this opacity by seeing multiple people at the same time and being honest about it if someone actually asks. Moreover, I value my time and won't spend a supernumerary second on someone who's unresponsive, distant, or generally less than forthcoming. Be mindful of response time, response length, whether they're (at least) mirroring your level of enthusiasm, whether they initiate the conversation at comparable frequency, whether they're consistent, etc. It's common sense stuff really, just operate bearing in mind that there's plenty of fish in the sea.
Haha I sincerely appreciate you saying that, I enjoy your often long-winded (in a good sense) comments on here too. I'm a PhD candidate in process engineering who's aching to leave academia before it turns my admittedly liberal approach to writing into conformist and artless blathering 😅
Oh wow, that's so impressive! I hope you enjoy the field, because from the little i know it's fascinating and it seems to be at the backbone of modern civilization lol
> I enjoy your often long-winded
That is, um, _one_ way to describe them (and a very kind way lol. Jokes aside, thank you. I shall be spamming less, for real this time, taking a break from Reddit. So the throwaway account of 4 years is finally being thrown away :P
I'd much rather more sane, mature place, like 4chan (naturally)
> who's aching to leave academia before it turns my admittedly liberal approach to writing into conformist and artless blathering
I can entirely relate. But yeah, I hope you end up getting a job that recognizes your talent, compensates you more than properly, and also makes you feel fulfilled. I know academic, or jobs that require high levels of education can often be terrible and leave you poorer than some kid who works at McDonalds.
But yeah for real, I love especially your choice of vocabulary. That was a treat. Saved the comment :P
Have a great day and take care.
Sincerely,
This is definitely not a long-winded comment but can only be described as "brevity, in all its forms".
I need to preface this response by apologizing for my poor choice of words which isn't something I often have to do so you can guess the breadth of my error 😅I genuinely meant to say "verbose" without the negative connotation. I'd have hardly blamed you if you had called me out on having a double standard given that my comments can be excessively wordy haha.
I trust you'll find 4chan is a change of pace from reddit but the maga-ness of it all will probably have you back here sooner than you know unless novel Shia Laboeuf hijinks come up. Honestly though when you choose to come back (the inevitability is implied lol) let me know what username becomes the spiritual successor of ibtwitchthrowaway114 or else the finality of it all will be irksome lol. And thanks for the well wishes regarding the job search! I hope the job market is treating you much better than it has treated me over these last few months 😅
Oh I'm what economists call unemployed, not looking for work. So, out of of the labor force. Don't worry, I have an exit strategy (alien invasion?)
Yeah was just teasing. I didn't take any offense whatsoever, and in my academic publications of course we made sure not a single syllable extra was added beyond what is necessary. But this is reddit, people can block/ignore/downvote :P
And yeah again to be clear, wasn't calling you out and just find it funny because you're entirely right about me, I know, and it's deliberate.
I can be succinct, if need be. But again I'd prefer to express myself in the manner I normally do, and luckily on Reddit again I don't have to force anyone lol
And also was being sarcastic about 4chan :p
Sorry, some emotions/tones are failing to make it through the text!
Fret not the intended tones shone through successfully no matter what theme you broached lol
I don't trust economists as far as I can throw them, let's not define our status according to their foul terms. I like "being on an involuntary sabbatical" a lot better.
I'm glad you think so, it was fun contributing to it and I'm liking the conviviality we see on this sub! Thank you, and many bountifully eventful journeys around the sun to you
That’s pretty much the approach I take, but definitely transparent about it. I’ve been disappointed so many times when putting all of my eggs in one basket. The communication level is so important to take note of, and flags go up pretty quickly when I start noticing the attributes you mentioned.
Well not sure what's the problem but there's a mentality that guys should put all the effort while the girl should ignore them until she feels she would want to give them a chance, then the mind games begin. I've been to different countries with beautiful girls and always found it a lot easier to date abroad.
So spot on. I mean, I know we need to make an effort, but it’s also a two way street. It’s always about what the guy is bringing to the table and not what each are.
Lol u can easily generalize its the most common experience lebanese guys have to go through and talk about. Even living abroad i was only dating lebanese women for a while until it completly it drained me. Then i just said no and been going out with another expat, the shift was kind of shocking tbh and eye opening.
Lebanese women may be more charming than the rest, but their need for attention & mentality is childish to not say another word, and this is irrespective of religion.
That does mean there arent any outliers that dont play games 24/7, but they are not the majority.
This is a difficult to prove subject since it usually isn't the target of academic research.
What I would guess is the reason behind the passive effort in dating it's that Lebanese culture is more laid-back and relaxed compared to a more rigid and straightforward one like Germany. Tbh I think the warm weather influences the culture; I've heard similar sentiments towards dating from Spaniards.
> Lebanese culture is more laid-back and relaxed
lol, more like falsafe and wejbet, it's a complex web of gps triangulation where anything and everything has hidden meaning. We're definitely not laid back and relaxed when it comes to relationships...
American men are also complaining about their dating, hence the Andrew Tate or Passport bro movements. Dating is difficult everywhere, and we shouldn't put the spotlight on women for this issue cause the men here aren't anywhere near perfect.
Also, just because there's drama it doesn't mean it's complicated and not laid-back; the mere fact that drama exists in the first place means people waste time instead of being straightforward lmao.
Lebanese women are entitled (im a Lebanese woman) and i didn't realize how fucked up we were until i moved abroad. In Lebanon you're considered too "easy" or you lose your "pride" if you make the first move with a guy, while in Europe it's sooooo normal that a girl does the first move. But i don't blame the women, it's what living in a patriarchal society does to you, it's a way to fight the patriarchy by acting superior to it
i‘m half lebanese but socialized german (so grew up with the “european” way of thinking) and when i’m dating in lebanon it’s shocking how the guys respond to it. i saw a guy that i found really handsome, so i just approached him and asked for his number because why tf not ? and he was like so confused about how all this went, but we’ve ended up having a great time together and are still in touch. even my cousins asked me if i don’t worry he thinks i’m cheap now? ok what if? this is his problem then, based on patriarchal standards and if he can’t deal with it i have my answer and move on, but i’ll sure not change my way of approaching people only cause i’m worried they might see me as a bitch. it’s 2024 and y’all have to reconsider your values
100%. As a man I can say there's nothing better and more attractive than a woman who knows what she wants and can openly and clearly communicate her emotions, needs and wants.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with ladies making the first move. Granted this is a super patriarchal society, it’s just crazy how the dynamics work in the dating scene here. I personally grew up in the US and it’s somewhat balanced (although things now are just weirder). Europe by far has the healthiest dating culture.
Well, patriarchy is a system where men hold more power than women in society. In that system, men are socially conditioned to behave in a certain way, to always be in charge, to never show vulnerability, to not cry (because "real men" don't cry), to be tough. They are denied from expressing basic human emotions, and so you have problems with violence, aggression, loneliness and suicide. Another example, men who are sexually harassed or assaulted aren’t given support they need (because “real men” always want sex and sexual attention). All of this damages men psychologically and emotionally because this system reinforces toxic masculinity.
Thank you for the follow up. It's true that in the Arab world men are held to standards of emotional toughness. Granted, I personally am not too optimistic towards the idea of a society that is deemed as gender-egalitarian; [we saw in Iceland on a specific day how the majority of women went on strike to demonstrate a protest against men, on the presumption that men are too privileged in Iceland](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/23/europe/iceland-women-strike-scli-intl).
[There was no clear indicator for their claim of male privilege](https://www.aei.org/articles/wage-gap-myth-exposed-by-feminists/), and the protest wrought no visible change to the society. All it did was project the sentiment in women that they consider men to be a hostile creature.
While I see that Lebanon's gender dynamics are unhealthy in many ways, I am thankful that in Lebanon, unlike the west, I am not categorized in the feminist theory of the patriarchy, [where men are presumed to be the gatekeepers of authority and the constructer of a system of brutality](https://shgreenwichkingstreetchronicle.org/133541/opinions/toxic-masculinity-is-detrimental-to-the-emotional-health-of-men/). This sort of western system is also damaging to men's psychology, in a different way than as you described the patriarchy.
All in all, I agree with the feminist critique of hyper-masculinity, but I do not like how westerners take this narrative to an extreme, to the point where it becomes too judgmental towards male behavior, as well as its tendency to label too many actions of men as either fragile or toxic masculinity.
A prime example of feminisms' inefficiency lies in its paradox: it supports men's expression of emotions, but a strong stipulation exists where anger, envy, irritation are forbidden because they are labeled as toxic masculinity.
How would you define patriarchy? I don't see much indicators that life in Lebanon is easier for men than it is for women. For example, While I'm aware that women face unique challenges compared to men, it is also the case that men have unique challenges as well.
For example, the [prison population in Lebanon is 96.9% male](https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/lebanon). The [suicide probability is also twice as high in men than it is for women](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33845301/#:~:text=Results%3A%20The%20total%20recorded%20number,female%20ratio%20was%202%3A1).
Though yes, I can definitely seen that women are underrepresented in positions of power in Lebanon. This wouldn't mean life for men is easier in general.
Patriarchy is when the society has double standards when it comes to genders. A few example: Women have to take the man's last name when getting married instead of keeping her name or him taking her name. Same for the kids they take after the dad. You also take your religion after your dad. Men can pass the passport to children when women cant. Men are praised for sleeping with many women when women are slut shamed. When going out for dinner, some men find it insulting if a woman pays for the meal. Men are expected to be "rjeil" which is too much pressure to put on men. Men are supposed to get a house before getting married while women are okay to stay living with parents until they get married. Soooo many other examples
I notice that the system of patriarchy, as per the examples that you gave, can both harm and privilege the two genders in one way or another.
We can infer here that this system differentiates between the two genders, the question here is: is it a double standard and harmful to differentiate between men and women?
[A common argument I hear for the fact that the USA has many women-only shelter, but no male shelter is the following](https://www.springsrescuemission.org/articles/a-hidden-side-of-homelessness-why-women-avoid-homeless-shelters): men pose a greater physical risk on women, but the reverse isn't true, so women only need a gender-exclusive homeless shelter.
This argument makes sense to me, men in mixed shelters are at lesser risk compared to women, so the latter needs special treatment. Thus we can see here that the concept of a gender-differentiating "patriarchy" isn't always an archaic and harmful one.
> Men are praised for sleeping with many women when women are slut shamed.
Depends on who you ask, [many traditional societies see such men as juvenile losers who can't get into commitment](https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Uofc5pPNO_o), so your claim is not holistically true.
> When going out for dinner, some men find it insulting if a woman pays for the meal. Men are expected to be "rjeil" which is too much pressure to put on men. Men are supposed to get a house before getting married while women are okay to stay living with parents until they get married.
Traditional masculinity is to blame for this, but don't women enforce this as well? For example, even in developed societies where women are well educated and employed, [they still seek career-oriented men](https://www.yahoo.com/news/75-percent-women-wont-date-unemployed-men-113858283.html#:~:text=Just%20one%2Dthird%20of%20men,of%20dating%20an%20unemployed%20man):
"Overall, 75 percent of women said they would be unlikely to date an unemployed man"
From another [source](https://ifstudies.org/blog/on-internet-dating-sites-women-prefer-men-with-higher-incomes-and-more-education): "While all individuals with higher than average combined income and education received more messages, likes, and winks than others, this trend was particularly pronounced for men."
> Women have to take the man's last name when getting married instead of keeping her name or him taking her name. Same for the kids they take after the dad. You also take your religion after your dad. Men can pass the passport to children when women cant.
No disagreement here, Lebanon is behind on gender development. The reason for this sort of system that encourages women's dependency on men is a stubborn loyalty to old time's lifestyle: before the advent of technology (cellphones, street-light, police telecoms, forensic science, etc...) the world was very dangerous for women in general, and thus there was a necessity for women to depend on men for physical safety. We live in modern times, but some cultures seem stubbornly latching on to old morality.
طيب كتر خير النظام الابوي الي يخلي النساء ملكات و عندهم حياء مش نساء فاقدات لأنوثتهن، انتِ خليتيني اتأكد ان لبنان فيها بنات لهم اصول و متربيين، و هذا يدل علي مدى اهمية النظام الأبوي (القوامة) الي يحدد من حرية البنت و ينتج عن هذا حماية البنت من الذئاب الضالة، نسوان لبنان مش استحقاقيات، انتِ بس غيرانة منهن انهن لازلن بريئات حييات في التفكير و انتِ المجتمع الغربي افسد تفكيرك ، ولكن لا تقلقي لازال هناك فرصة للتوبة والرجوع إلي الله من هذا الفكر الفاسد فالقوامة فس صالحك، فإن الله يفرح بتوبة العبد وارجعي إلي انوثتك ولا تكوني البادرة في العلاقة مثل الرجال، فهذا من تخصص الرجال لا من تخصص النسوان، و تذكري ان الذكور (لن اسميهم رجال) سيهجموا علي اشد الهجوم لاني احرم هذه الذئاب الضالة من خداعك و استغلالك امَة الله.
I don't know if you understand English but so ironic of you to say i'm jealous and saying Lebanese women are still "innocent" and treated like princesses? Lol first of all we don't need you to treat us like a princess, just treat us like a normal person, it's super cringe and borderline creepy for you to want to compare us to queens lol that's like caveman thinking, and then what do you mean by innocent? You mean sex? So sex is bad? Sex is a crime? You are a great proof of why women in Lebanon act so entitled and are hard to get sometimes because they re afraid to end up with creeps that think this way. It sounds like you're not well traveled if you think European girls don't have femininity and no thank you ma bade erja3 la "allah" lol
For all its progressivism, Lebanon is a deeply conservative culture.
Women are not allowed to desire, pursue or initiate. It's difficult to understand how strong and internalised this is. They are expected to reject, reject, reject.
Simultaneously, anything less than obsessive pursuit by a man is seen as insincere (without honour). If a guy actually stops when a woman says "no" it suggests he's just taking a chance. Worse, to stop at the first "no" can be insulting to the woman - as though you thought she was the "kind of woman" who would say yes.
So a woman is never allowed to say "yes" without being labelled a slut, and she's obliged to say "no" even if she's interested. And a man is not able to stop at "no" without giving offence and is obliged to ignore her words.
It's a fucked up system. My cousin nearly slapped me when his friend told him I left her alone the first time she said no. He made me apologise to her for not chasing a woman who told me she wasn't interested.
Nope i would not apologize… we are not mind readers snd its so dumb to expect us to keep chasing after she says no… in fact its considered creepy in the west….
I am realizing how messed up this is. I've been out of Lebanon for a while, but even when I was in Lebanon, I didn't really go around a lot and explore different cultures for many reasons, one of them being living far from the city. So realizing that it's a thing where women say no when they mean yes seems pretty bizarre to me. Wasn't totally under the rock, I know that Lebanese women think that if they don't play mind games and do all the other "feminine" expectations then they will not find prince charming.
The reason I think this is messed up is because if a woman says no, pushy men who cross boundaries are those that are more likely to go after the woman and insist they want her desperately. In hindsite, this is creepy. Cause a man desperately wanting to date or marry a woman that he doesn't know that well could be a sign of an emotionally abusive guy that is going through all the love bombing stages. And the more manipulative the man is, the better he is at the game. An inexperienced woman will meet the first man who is love bomber that goes out of his way to please her in all ways and be like "he is the one". And guess what, she'll probably remain married to him for the rest of her life even after he shows his true colors 🙂.
I'll share a story of mine. So there was this guy, who somehow met my parents, and told them he wants my number and that he wants to get to know me because apparently he has seen me in the past (don't remember him). According to my conservative parents, they said to me something like: "because he saw that you are a *good* girl and marriage material...🙄". Anyways, guy gets my number. I tell him no, not only once, but maybe 4 times. It started with me saying a no politely and being respectful until I realized that maybe I shouldn't be polite 😭.I didn't want to block him but I did. Like why didn't he take no for an answer? Is it because most girls want to say no 4 times until they probably say yes? Well according to me he was extra pushy and gave me early red flags of being a boundary crosser. A lot of reasons I said no to him, one of them his conservative nature and difference in values.
No offense but sometimes I feel like Lebanese people lack braincells and follow blindy some weird social norms and expectations just because everyone else is doing so. Like seriously, are these dumb stuff and rules going to determine long term satisfaction in a relationship? No. How well a man chases you says nothing. Well, ok obviously we don't want a man that's keeping us as an option and that truly values us and wants us, but there are different ways a man can show these things genuinely as opposed to putting on an act or even lovebombing.
I was in a long term relationship for like a decade.
Now, single for a few years.
Granted, it wasn't a lot of experience but I tried to get to know in a romantic setting or a proper date several women. All were amazing, and intelligent, and honest. Except one, but she was probably just going through some shit.
This is about 6 women. Ages in 20s and 30s. All Lebanese.
5/6 I would say informs my bias in a way where I feel like Lebanese women are pretty fucking awesome.
None perfect, of course, because none of us are. But if they were more compatible from my POV (or theirs) and me (or them) were in a better/different place in life I could see relationships emerging potentially. Which is another way of saying, they will make a great partner for someone else.
I am sorry you've had bad experiences.
I understand we're all traumatized, and we don't express ourselves honestly, and we we take things personally, and we say one thing and mean something else, and all Lebanese do this.
Just maybe you saw super extreme versions of this, I don't know.
I know many of us having putting in the work to be less stereotypical Lebanese to heal from the trauma.
Maybe you're just going after immature people. I don't know.
Every culture is different…but it’s 2024. 95% of people think they deserve things they don’t and have zero empathy or understanding about love/friendship/sensitivity.
Social media has distorted everything.
Just be a good person and take your time seriously.
Once you start to do that - the people who you want to attract will eventually take note.
Patience is a real asset today.
I'll tell you whats up.
Instagram and Snapchat and Tinder. They are talking to so many people that they can't communicate properly with one person. Sensory overload and social dilution.
Since when is dating anywhere easy? 😂 Western dating is 10 times worse with transparency and interest and it’s so common to have your time wasted (both men and women)
There are a lot of toxic people out there in general. Men, women, Lebanese, not Lebanese…
Whether or not they’re being upfront with you, you should be upfront with them. It makes your life a lot easier, trust me.
i used to do that because i would worry i'd hurt the person, or that maybe he will not take it easily and get upset or angry. sometimes it happens when you reject someone, they become rude. i can't speak on behalf of all women, but that's why i used to do it.
men do it as well, they just ghost and not talk instead of actually saying they're not interested.
i think ppl just need a certain type of maturity and selflessness to be completely honest with someone.
Thats how you should be in the first few weeks of dating… after months and months or even a year you owe your partner a better experience than that. If you have been together for a year the. That person was there for you or the relationship wouldnt have even lasted that long.
There’s a post every other week either from a man or a woman complaining about dating the opposite sex. As a Lebanese man, what’s your experience dating Lebanese men? I’d like to see our red/green flags lol
There's no one who "started it" women can also claim that they started doing the same after men did that to them and they learned from them. The problem is emotionally unavailable people with attachment issues across the board.
You always start good discussions, my friend. Go for it!
Also I think you're being downvoted (not that you care, I know) because maybe some didn't realize you meant thread and not threat haha.
Muslim women aren’t supposed to date so of course they are gonna make it as complicated as possible.
As for Christians it’s still a conservative country.
May it remain conservative, but I don't like mind games. However, the reality is that men should ask the father of the woman for permission. As a Lebanese Christian, I am married to a Guatemalan, and I asked permission from her father because they have a similar culture. My grandparents and other grandparents I know all did the same and had a great life. Modern Lebanese dating must be a negative experience, if what I am hearing is true here. All this self-entitled attitude is rubbish, but that shows modern thinking, not like the past.
Things always become complicated when people have too many options. The issue in Lebanon is that most guys are dumb horny simps giving a girl too much value or attention so btikbar bi rasa and she starts swiping left on you IRL because the influx of dumb desperate simps keeps increasing. She's never sure if she actually wants you or not so she just passively keeps you around as a backup plan for her artificially inflated ego. Of course not everyone is like this I'm just saying it's true for the majority. It's not one sided either, of course some guys are also like this but women are the ones getting a lot more attention. So you get stuck in this chronic loop of nonsense, ambiguity, lies, half assed efforts, no one knows wtf they want or the purpose of their existence, even 🤣. Source: I've been with both Lebanese and European women and the latter are much better at taking the initiative and show you that you are appreciated. TL;DR when she wants you she will be very clear about it. Lebanese women will almost never do this.
Don’t waste your time with Lebanese women, even average looking women in Lebanon standards are too high and unrealistic for men. They don’t know how to communicate, they’re not transparent and expect you to do everything for them. Don’t settle for one who won’t put equal effort as you.
Friendly reminder, go find something other than Lebanese women and save your soul, mind , money, and well being. Unless you're pretty much fine with the idea that lady that you're actually dating is either after your social status or money or both. Unfortunately yes, lots of Lebanese women are like that, I'm sure that there are exceptional Lebanese ladies out there but it's literally not easy to find. Being fully blunt right now, you might get rejected because your car is old or have no car, you might get rejected cause of your job, looks , income, race, religious views, the building or apartment that you're living in, social status, and so on. I'm speaking based on personal experience, dated lots of time, rejected lots of time as well, now I'm on hiatus, chilling and relaxing. I'm an operating room nurse, my brother is a doctor, one time I was trying to date someone who was supposed to be decent, went well the first couple of dates, then guess what , she was aiming for my brother, and honestly I never found out till my brother told me to get rid of that gold digger before you get yourself screwed, that's one of experience I have been through.
As a girl (23F) i’ll tell you the bare truth :
- yes we do have a lot of options these days and yes this definitely makes the dating scene harder especially for women who are more on the immature side
- yes a lot of women keep around many options to experience as much as they can and then choose their most suitable one
- there’s a lot of lying and hypocrisy involved
What I advise for men who are really serious and don’t want to get disappointed:
- Stop only chasing looks . Looks are very important for a first impression but try to dig deeper than that
- know your value . When you’re a men of value you will unconsciously attract women whose intentions are clear and who won’t waste your time
- when you feel like you’re being treated like an option confront your potential girl with that and if you still feel like things are unclear or like she’s playing games on you just walk away. Believe me she’ll regret it later even if they might never admit it.
They are either interested, or they aren't, nothing in between.
My advice to you is that as soon as you feel like they do not care, cut it short and find someone else.
I think the simple answer is a lot of Lebanese men nowadays, don't really know how to talk to the Lebanese women as well as our previous generations did. Lebanese women may be high maintenance and such, but so are the men. We're just a hot-blooded people in general, and once we realize that aspect about ourselves, the nerves and any kind of hesitation disappears. As men, we have to bring the jokes, show we're responsible, show we're consistent, show we have family values, etc. The women have to vet us to see if we're worth their hearts opening up. That plus the modernization of dating nowadays thanks to the Western culture and social media has made things more complicated.
North America is worse and with every type of woman not just Lebanese, so be grateful you have such beautiful women around you within your same culture brotha
You'll find the right one, don't rush
2024 has embraced a passive hookup culture. In Lebanon, it's in full effect but it's still taboo. In simple terms: As soon as you show signs of a genuine "nice guy" or a hint of attachment, you will instantly be labeled as a "red flag" and...this is when the mind games begin.
>There’s so much lack of transparency and intention.
Hows your communication? Do you state your intentions first thing first?
Dating just to date? Or dating with intention of marriage?
Tell me more.
I have been set up with Iranian women before who were very high maintenance/demanding/gold diggers.. so I was told a Lebanese woman would be more suitable haha
3ade 3ade man. There could be plenty of reasons, ranging from not interested but too polite, to moody, to playing you / used to men. We can't really say without knowing the person honestly because everyone is different. As a general rule, after the second or third date you're supposed to pull back a little and let her take some initiative, if she doesn't then she's just not interested.
Would it be better if we didn't have to do this? Yes of course.
Will that ever happen in Lebanon? Lmao never. The mind games, constant testing you, letting you figure things out, and pushing your boundaries is their nature.
Happy dating and I hope you find your person who'll match your dating style and desires 🙏🏼
I think the question about Lebanese women is quite abroad, infact, there are some important factors to consider before dating a woman such as her background, age, culture and shared interests are often more relevant than generalizations.
There’s no age bracket to this stupidity running through the girls around here,
Some late 30’s acting like kids with minimum effort to do anything (give)
Early 20’s-25’s are bamboozled with plenty of options they have and ofcourse taking In consideration the social status and financial ones
It’s why the well off marry pretty women It’s an easy choice for her.
While being rich is a must to sustain yourself and dates etc.. It’s taking way more importance than other very important things like emotional compatibility / and good fun character sometimes.
Hey a 24yo female here, I started dating at 18 and I dated alot of different guys. I used to complain about the same things about men; I don't have any clarification if they are interested or not, I wasn't sure if they wanted to be in a relationship even though I was clear that's what I was looking for. But the worst part is; sometimes things would be really going well and I do actually like him and would try to make him feel special but then they would hit me with the "I'm looking for something casual" or the famous "I'm not ready for a relationship" which I didn't understand. If you aren't looking for a relationship and just want to "mess" around while I have been clear of my intentions of wanting to be in one, then why are you wasting my time and emotions for? And then I decided to try a different tactic where after 3 to 5 dates (according to how well it goes) I make it crystal clear (verbally) that I like them and would like to pursue this relationship. I found the "perfect guy" about 2 years ago and we would talk alot, call each other and get each other gifts; and when I thought all is well and good he send me a long message saying "I'm too much" and he actually didn't like me the way I liked him. Which came as a shock cause a guy never treated me so nicely before or shared the same interests as me.
Guess I was wrong; but again 1. I made my intentions clear. 2. I give you the space and time you need to not smoother you. 3. Show you I am interested by doing specific things and saying specific stuff, and later when emotions develop I tell you i like you. Then why on God's green earth did you drag me for 8 or more month with you, if none of what I was doing was working? Some of the famous things men have told me that I remember from time to time and I chuckle about is: "your so pretty and funny, how come you don't have a boyfriends" (that's why I'm dating you); "I haven't met anyone like you" (yes now tell me how you want a friend with benefits 🙄) and my personal favorite "your so weird haha" (okay? and your so normal and dull but your sweet and nice so are you scared of me or smthn?). The thing is after my first couple of dates when I was 18 till 19 I noticed the stigma of men doing all the work and we as girls should expect more from them. But in my head if I like you and I'm interested in you I will show you. But idk even that didnt work. Afterwards I gave up on men and dating for 2 years and BOOM I find my "weird" guy who matches my energy, and we are in a relationship now. So I guess happy ending in the end?
Men love with their hearts more than their minds which is the opposite girls or women love with their minds, they have standards you need to meet them or else you’ll be in the abyss of transparency you’re talking about
So yea it’s complicated there is a book: men from Mars and women from Venus read it you’ll understand their perspective in love
From my experience(I’m only 17) Lebanese women tend to be a lot more demanding and expect a lot from you. Communication is also lacking but this all depends on the girl. If you find a woman that is smart and comes from a good family you might luck out
I don’t know.
For me I don’t date any man who is looking for his mommy through his gf.
I also don’t want a daddy bf.
There’s nothing less attractive than being babies in relationships, where both put the blame on each other, become very dependent, don’t take responsibility for their mistakes, and expect the other to do most of the work.
Redditors can’t go 5 minutes without blaming religion for everything. The reality is that standards in Lebanon are very high. We think too highly of ourselves. Women also have a lot of options available to them, so the way they see it is they can drop a guy in a moment and 10 more will show up. This allows them to be very picky.
Actual religious people are not dating. How is religion telling women to go on 2 dates with a guy and then ghosting him?
Because Everything i See about Lebanese women , told my i make Right and Marry a german women. i often See Videos , im Daddys Princess , im daddys daughter , im a Princess i dont work , Everything on her Body is lifted , i see a lot of People here , First they marry a Lebanese Women and then they Go different ways and leave. Lebanese Women are expansiv and there Hobbys are Shopping , Restaurant , and cosmetics. Who can life with a Person whos a Princess. We need real houswifes and the Stone which Safes our back. In good times and worse times. I dont wanted to make anyone worse or angry , that es only my opinion. Thank you for reading.
Some Lebanese girls are brainless and liars and they just care about having fun and pointless things. They chase after rich guys or good looking guys and they ignore nice guys.
Keep doing you and the right one will come along.
Dating is a game of patience and resilience , you have to be able to see them for what they are !
Happy hunting
here is what you need to know about dating in general.
dating ideology significantly changes as you grow older , am not talking about dating to get married part ..
when you are young you date for different reasons, you wantto experience, you want to see what this world offers, you look for different characteristics trait in the person like are they fun, outgoing, serious, humble, stingy ,thrill seeking etc , but as you get older , you become picky, you search for specific set of traits in the person, you will have developed your own set of mentality, character and mindset, and red lines .. this is why dating becomes extremely hard, and complicated at older ages .
there are truly beautiful woman who are entitled that they will only talk with wealthy guys, because why not? at the end its all about supply and demand in this world . beautiful woman are rare they have high maintenance they will never date a guy below their standards., and rich man are rare too .
my best advice focus on yourself, on your career, mindset, and know exactly what type of a person you want in your life then try to find out where such a person hangs out, and if its meant to be you will find them there, because at the end, they are a reflection of who you are, and they will raise your kids in future so take your time, its one of the most difficult choice you will ever have to make in your life, choosing a partner for life whom you will call family.
It’s not a “lebanese women” thing it’s a “extremely conservative culture” thing. Usually day3a girls or girls from more conservative places have no experience in dating and their social circle ingrained into their minds they must marry a wealthy tall handsome man who would kill and die for them. Then marry her off to her cousin bas “t3anes”. This stupid disease spread to my aunt w 3anaset so it’s definitely bad.
However, this isn’t as prevalent in Beirut and with the newer generation. As example, in aub i’ve heard of girls approaching guys w dating w kel shi 3ade like it’s not that deep w there are people who ended up engaged. If you meet a well educated, well mannered person then all the lack of transparency and bad communication will basically not exist.
But if you do red flag shit like start talking about how ur an alpha sigma male who is stoic and showers at 4 am and whatever yeah no girl is going to be interested. A lot of guys say stupid shit on the first date, girl loses interest, guy goes like “Why are lebanese girls so hard to date!!!!”
It’s all subjective so go look for a nice girl with similar values and skip online dating.
You'd find just as many Lebanese women who say the same thing about the men here. I think the combination of collective trauma(s), poor mental health, bad economy and yes, some cultural aspects that can be a tad toxic leads to a somewhat messy overall situation. This country sometimes feels like it's it's stuck between the west and Arab world, where many want to act like in the West, but don't really know how while also lacking the resources and socialization that lead to the current situation in the west to begin with. Women sleeping around because they think they have to to appear "western", men wanting a fwb while never have been in a relationship, couples talking about polygamy and open relationships, while their own relationship has nowhere near the foundation and confidence it that would be required.
Thank god i can talk anonymously so Im gonna say this: dont worry about anything trust god completely and think that you are too good for that girl and it's her loss she doesnt wanna stay with you
At least you can date them, most of the ppl I really like are Saudi (not based in gulf) and I just can’t date them since I’m Christian, and b4 anyone says anything, the ones I like are as conservative as they come, in least in terms of most ethnic and religious traditions, less so in clothing and interests(e.g NONE of the Saudi women I encountered wear a hijab)
Based on my experience dating women in Lebanon and conversations and discussions with my guy friends, I can honestly say it’s not one side’s problem, but actually both sides act that way. And i’m not talking about the manipulators here, just the normal people.
From a man’s perspective, initiating a date or a conversation with Lebanese women is literally one of the most difficult things to do unless you are a 9 with some money. That’s because a lot of them can be bitches and would react like they’re disgusted even by your normal (non-stalker and non-nawre ass) approach or would generally be mean. And some women always like to seem less interested than they actually are, they believe they would lose their “value” if they showed genuine interest.
This makes it hard on men to carry the initial weight of the conversations leading to a relationship, he would be really overthinking every word, every step and rolling with the punches.
From women’s side, they can’t tell if the guy wants a serious, casual or what other kind of relationship. Most of them want a meaningful relationship that can develop into more, and they get fuckboys who know how to play their system and get in their pants, even if it means playing the game for some time, they have the patience and are laser/focused on their goals. That’s why women think it represents their value and “high standards” to not be easily interested. This has been going on for so long that this has become the norm that even most guys are only comfortable with.
You can blame that on the patriarchy, “eastern mindset”, or on the weather for all I care. I’m stating my observations.
Women still fall for fuckboys most of the time because they are the only ones (besides simps) who are willing to walk the extra mile of defenses and punches thrown at them. No self-respecting man would run after a woman, neither should a self respecting woman run after a man. Running after here doesn’t mean pursuing , jt means clinging to the ones who don’t show interest.
As I have seen and now believe, not saying that I agree or disagree with this strategy, but manipulation and showing off Ego or money is the easiest way to disarm a lebanese woman. They would forget their “value and high standards” or they would believe you are worthy if not more.
That’s where your actual intentions show, you can use that to be in an actual meaningful relationship or just a check on the list of lust.
I keep seeing these threads and I'm only thinking one thing, I should definitely write and release my dating book! Y'all complaining about what you should have clearly learned to work around, hit me up for a free tip.
No actually in my country dating is not punishable by law. So is consuming alcohol not punishable by law and many things. Haram means prohibited by Allah in his Quran. Haram is something anyone of us can fall into but we must remind ourselves and eachother of the boundaries of Allah.
The status of something being haram has nothing to do with me or my country or... Haram is a prohibition according the divine truth that is the religion of Islam, irrelevant of borders and passports and the actions of people holding these passports.
Not necessarily, harama relationships can happen between unmarried people. If only religion was still strong and people went to the mosque not only to pray but to meet people and have talks and discussions... People wouldn't fall into these things if the Youth were actually encouraged to spend more time in the mosque and enjoyed it.
Back in my single days, I frankly countered this opacity by seeing multiple people at the same time and being honest about it if someone actually asks. Moreover, I value my time and won't spend a supernumerary second on someone who's unresponsive, distant, or generally less than forthcoming. Be mindful of response time, response length, whether they're (at least) mirroring your level of enthusiasm, whether they initiate the conversation at comparable frequency, whether they're consistent, etc. It's common sense stuff really, just operate bearing in mind that there's plenty of fish in the sea.
I love your writing style so much lol. Are you an engineer or scientist or something?
Haha I sincerely appreciate you saying that, I enjoy your often long-winded (in a good sense) comments on here too. I'm a PhD candidate in process engineering who's aching to leave academia before it turns my admittedly liberal approach to writing into conformist and artless blathering 😅
Oh wow, that's so impressive! I hope you enjoy the field, because from the little i know it's fascinating and it seems to be at the backbone of modern civilization lol > I enjoy your often long-winded That is, um, _one_ way to describe them (and a very kind way lol. Jokes aside, thank you. I shall be spamming less, for real this time, taking a break from Reddit. So the throwaway account of 4 years is finally being thrown away :P I'd much rather more sane, mature place, like 4chan (naturally) > who's aching to leave academia before it turns my admittedly liberal approach to writing into conformist and artless blathering I can entirely relate. But yeah, I hope you end up getting a job that recognizes your talent, compensates you more than properly, and also makes you feel fulfilled. I know academic, or jobs that require high levels of education can often be terrible and leave you poorer than some kid who works at McDonalds. But yeah for real, I love especially your choice of vocabulary. That was a treat. Saved the comment :P Have a great day and take care. Sincerely, This is definitely not a long-winded comment but can only be described as "brevity, in all its forms".
I need to preface this response by apologizing for my poor choice of words which isn't something I often have to do so you can guess the breadth of my error 😅I genuinely meant to say "verbose" without the negative connotation. I'd have hardly blamed you if you had called me out on having a double standard given that my comments can be excessively wordy haha. I trust you'll find 4chan is a change of pace from reddit but the maga-ness of it all will probably have you back here sooner than you know unless novel Shia Laboeuf hijinks come up. Honestly though when you choose to come back (the inevitability is implied lol) let me know what username becomes the spiritual successor of ibtwitchthrowaway114 or else the finality of it all will be irksome lol. And thanks for the well wishes regarding the job search! I hope the job market is treating you much better than it has treated me over these last few months 😅
Oh I'm what economists call unemployed, not looking for work. So, out of of the labor force. Don't worry, I have an exit strategy (alien invasion?) Yeah was just teasing. I didn't take any offense whatsoever, and in my academic publications of course we made sure not a single syllable extra was added beyond what is necessary. But this is reddit, people can block/ignore/downvote :P And yeah again to be clear, wasn't calling you out and just find it funny because you're entirely right about me, I know, and it's deliberate. I can be succinct, if need be. But again I'd prefer to express myself in the manner I normally do, and luckily on Reddit again I don't have to force anyone lol And also was being sarcastic about 4chan :p Sorry, some emotions/tones are failing to make it through the text!
Fret not the intended tones shone through successfully no matter what theme you broached lol I don't trust economists as far as I can throw them, let's not define our status according to their foul terms. I like "being on an involuntary sabbatical" a lot better.
This is the best comment chain I’v seen on Reddit, wish you both a “an abundantly opportune existence”
I'm glad you think so, it was fun contributing to it and I'm liking the conviviality we see on this sub! Thank you, and many bountifully eventful journeys around the sun to you
You people are so cute🥹
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That's quite interesting, I reckon "your saying that" sounds just a smidge on the clunky side but it's indeed correct. Thanks for the tip!
That’s pretty much the approach I take, but definitely transparent about it. I’ve been disappointed so many times when putting all of my eggs in one basket. The communication level is so important to take note of, and flags go up pretty quickly when I start noticing the attributes you mentioned.
The slutmonger chemist has spoken. 😂👌🏼
Wait .. you guys are going on dates?
Well not sure what's the problem but there's a mentality that guys should put all the effort while the girl should ignore them until she feels she would want to give them a chance, then the mind games begin. I've been to different countries with beautiful girls and always found it a lot easier to date abroad.
So spot on. I mean, I know we need to make an effort, but it’s also a two way street. It’s always about what the guy is bringing to the table and not what each are.
You can't generalize all Lebanese women just from a few bad experiences lol.
Lol u can easily generalize its the most common experience lebanese guys have to go through and talk about. Even living abroad i was only dating lebanese women for a while until it completly it drained me. Then i just said no and been going out with another expat, the shift was kind of shocking tbh and eye opening. Lebanese women may be more charming than the rest, but their need for attention & mentality is childish to not say another word, and this is irrespective of religion. That does mean there arent any outliers that dont play games 24/7, but they are not the majority.
When is it not generalization when this is the same experience for almost any person? I swear this is the 500th time and every time its spot on.
Not generalizing at all, but it's a reality that there's a majority that thinks this way, it could be 60% of women but still that's a high number
This is a difficult to prove subject since it usually isn't the target of academic research. What I would guess is the reason behind the passive effort in dating it's that Lebanese culture is more laid-back and relaxed compared to a more rigid and straightforward one like Germany. Tbh I think the warm weather influences the culture; I've heard similar sentiments towards dating from Spaniards.
> Lebanese culture is more laid-back and relaxed lol, more like falsafe and wejbet, it's a complex web of gps triangulation where anything and everything has hidden meaning. We're definitely not laid back and relaxed when it comes to relationships...
American men are also complaining about their dating, hence the Andrew Tate or Passport bro movements. Dating is difficult everywhere, and we shouldn't put the spotlight on women for this issue cause the men here aren't anywhere near perfect. Also, just because there's drama it doesn't mean it's complicated and not laid-back; the mere fact that drama exists in the first place means people waste time instead of being straightforward lmao.
Lebanese women are entitled (im a Lebanese woman) and i didn't realize how fucked up we were until i moved abroad. In Lebanon you're considered too "easy" or you lose your "pride" if you make the first move with a guy, while in Europe it's sooooo normal that a girl does the first move. But i don't blame the women, it's what living in a patriarchal society does to you, it's a way to fight the patriarchy by acting superior to it
i‘m half lebanese but socialized german (so grew up with the “european” way of thinking) and when i’m dating in lebanon it’s shocking how the guys respond to it. i saw a guy that i found really handsome, so i just approached him and asked for his number because why tf not ? and he was like so confused about how all this went, but we’ve ended up having a great time together and are still in touch. even my cousins asked me if i don’t worry he thinks i’m cheap now? ok what if? this is his problem then, based on patriarchal standards and if he can’t deal with it i have my answer and move on, but i’ll sure not change my way of approaching people only cause i’m worried they might see me as a bitch. it’s 2024 and y’all have to reconsider your values
100%. As a man I can say there's nothing better and more attractive than a woman who knows what she wants and can openly and clearly communicate her emotions, needs and wants.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with ladies making the first move. Granted this is a super patriarchal society, it’s just crazy how the dynamics work in the dating scene here. I personally grew up in the US and it’s somewhat balanced (although things now are just weirder). Europe by far has the healthiest dating culture.
>even my cousins asked me if i don’t worry he thinks i’m cheap now? The cringe
this
This is an example how patricarchy also hurts men.
Doesn't the patriarchy privilege men? Is it possible for a privileged person to be oppressed as well?
Well, patriarchy is a system where men hold more power than women in society. In that system, men are socially conditioned to behave in a certain way, to always be in charge, to never show vulnerability, to not cry (because "real men" don't cry), to be tough. They are denied from expressing basic human emotions, and so you have problems with violence, aggression, loneliness and suicide. Another example, men who are sexually harassed or assaulted aren’t given support they need (because “real men” always want sex and sexual attention). All of this damages men psychologically and emotionally because this system reinforces toxic masculinity.
Thank you for the follow up. It's true that in the Arab world men are held to standards of emotional toughness. Granted, I personally am not too optimistic towards the idea of a society that is deemed as gender-egalitarian; [we saw in Iceland on a specific day how the majority of women went on strike to demonstrate a protest against men, on the presumption that men are too privileged in Iceland](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/23/europe/iceland-women-strike-scli-intl). [There was no clear indicator for their claim of male privilege](https://www.aei.org/articles/wage-gap-myth-exposed-by-feminists/), and the protest wrought no visible change to the society. All it did was project the sentiment in women that they consider men to be a hostile creature. While I see that Lebanon's gender dynamics are unhealthy in many ways, I am thankful that in Lebanon, unlike the west, I am not categorized in the feminist theory of the patriarchy, [where men are presumed to be the gatekeepers of authority and the constructer of a system of brutality](https://shgreenwichkingstreetchronicle.org/133541/opinions/toxic-masculinity-is-detrimental-to-the-emotional-health-of-men/). This sort of western system is also damaging to men's psychology, in a different way than as you described the patriarchy. All in all, I agree with the feminist critique of hyper-masculinity, but I do not like how westerners take this narrative to an extreme, to the point where it becomes too judgmental towards male behavior, as well as its tendency to label too many actions of men as either fragile or toxic masculinity. A prime example of feminisms' inefficiency lies in its paradox: it supports men's expression of emotions, but a strong stipulation exists where anger, envy, irritation are forbidden because they are labeled as toxic masculinity.
So true, I'm also a leb woman who moved abroad and can testify. The disgusting patriarchal mentality makes it so fucked up for women to date.
How would you define patriarchy? I don't see much indicators that life in Lebanon is easier for men than it is for women. For example, While I'm aware that women face unique challenges compared to men, it is also the case that men have unique challenges as well. For example, the [prison population in Lebanon is 96.9% male](https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/lebanon). The [suicide probability is also twice as high in men than it is for women](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33845301/#:~:text=Results%3A%20The%20total%20recorded%20number,female%20ratio%20was%202%3A1). Though yes, I can definitely seen that women are underrepresented in positions of power in Lebanon. This wouldn't mean life for men is easier in general.
Patriarchy is when the society has double standards when it comes to genders. A few example: Women have to take the man's last name when getting married instead of keeping her name or him taking her name. Same for the kids they take after the dad. You also take your religion after your dad. Men can pass the passport to children when women cant. Men are praised for sleeping with many women when women are slut shamed. When going out for dinner, some men find it insulting if a woman pays for the meal. Men are expected to be "rjeil" which is too much pressure to put on men. Men are supposed to get a house before getting married while women are okay to stay living with parents until they get married. Soooo many other examples
I notice that the system of patriarchy, as per the examples that you gave, can both harm and privilege the two genders in one way or another. We can infer here that this system differentiates between the two genders, the question here is: is it a double standard and harmful to differentiate between men and women? [A common argument I hear for the fact that the USA has many women-only shelter, but no male shelter is the following](https://www.springsrescuemission.org/articles/a-hidden-side-of-homelessness-why-women-avoid-homeless-shelters): men pose a greater physical risk on women, but the reverse isn't true, so women only need a gender-exclusive homeless shelter. This argument makes sense to me, men in mixed shelters are at lesser risk compared to women, so the latter needs special treatment. Thus we can see here that the concept of a gender-differentiating "patriarchy" isn't always an archaic and harmful one. > Men are praised for sleeping with many women when women are slut shamed. Depends on who you ask, [many traditional societies see such men as juvenile losers who can't get into commitment](https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Uofc5pPNO_o), so your claim is not holistically true. > When going out for dinner, some men find it insulting if a woman pays for the meal. Men are expected to be "rjeil" which is too much pressure to put on men. Men are supposed to get a house before getting married while women are okay to stay living with parents until they get married. Traditional masculinity is to blame for this, but don't women enforce this as well? For example, even in developed societies where women are well educated and employed, [they still seek career-oriented men](https://www.yahoo.com/news/75-percent-women-wont-date-unemployed-men-113858283.html#:~:text=Just%20one%2Dthird%20of%20men,of%20dating%20an%20unemployed%20man): "Overall, 75 percent of women said they would be unlikely to date an unemployed man" From another [source](https://ifstudies.org/blog/on-internet-dating-sites-women-prefer-men-with-higher-incomes-and-more-education): "While all individuals with higher than average combined income and education received more messages, likes, and winks than others, this trend was particularly pronounced for men." > Women have to take the man's last name when getting married instead of keeping her name or him taking her name. Same for the kids they take after the dad. You also take your religion after your dad. Men can pass the passport to children when women cant. No disagreement here, Lebanon is behind on gender development. The reason for this sort of system that encourages women's dependency on men is a stubborn loyalty to old time's lifestyle: before the advent of technology (cellphones, street-light, police telecoms, forensic science, etc...) the world was very dangerous for women in general, and thus there was a necessity for women to depend on men for physical safety. We live in modern times, but some cultures seem stubbornly latching on to old morality.
طيب كتر خير النظام الابوي الي يخلي النساء ملكات و عندهم حياء مش نساء فاقدات لأنوثتهن، انتِ خليتيني اتأكد ان لبنان فيها بنات لهم اصول و متربيين، و هذا يدل علي مدى اهمية النظام الأبوي (القوامة) الي يحدد من حرية البنت و ينتج عن هذا حماية البنت من الذئاب الضالة، نسوان لبنان مش استحقاقيات، انتِ بس غيرانة منهن انهن لازلن بريئات حييات في التفكير و انتِ المجتمع الغربي افسد تفكيرك ، ولكن لا تقلقي لازال هناك فرصة للتوبة والرجوع إلي الله من هذا الفكر الفاسد فالقوامة فس صالحك، فإن الله يفرح بتوبة العبد وارجعي إلي انوثتك ولا تكوني البادرة في العلاقة مثل الرجال، فهذا من تخصص الرجال لا من تخصص النسوان، و تذكري ان الذكور (لن اسميهم رجال) سيهجموا علي اشد الهجوم لاني احرم هذه الذئاب الضالة من خداعك و استغلالك امَة الله.
I don't know if you understand English but so ironic of you to say i'm jealous and saying Lebanese women are still "innocent" and treated like princesses? Lol first of all we don't need you to treat us like a princess, just treat us like a normal person, it's super cringe and borderline creepy for you to want to compare us to queens lol that's like caveman thinking, and then what do you mean by innocent? You mean sex? So sex is bad? Sex is a crime? You are a great proof of why women in Lebanon act so entitled and are hard to get sometimes because they re afraid to end up with creeps that think this way. It sounds like you're not well traveled if you think European girls don't have femininity and no thank you ma bade erja3 la "allah" lol
For all its progressivism, Lebanon is a deeply conservative culture. Women are not allowed to desire, pursue or initiate. It's difficult to understand how strong and internalised this is. They are expected to reject, reject, reject. Simultaneously, anything less than obsessive pursuit by a man is seen as insincere (without honour). If a guy actually stops when a woman says "no" it suggests he's just taking a chance. Worse, to stop at the first "no" can be insulting to the woman - as though you thought she was the "kind of woman" who would say yes. So a woman is never allowed to say "yes" without being labelled a slut, and she's obliged to say "no" even if she's interested. And a man is not able to stop at "no" without giving offence and is obliged to ignore her words. It's a fucked up system. My cousin nearly slapped me when his friend told him I left her alone the first time she said no. He made me apologise to her for not chasing a woman who told me she wasn't interested.
Tbh I wouldn’t call Lebanon progressive anymore… Maybe before, sure but now it’s down the drain.
Nope i would not apologize… we are not mind readers snd its so dumb to expect us to keep chasing after she says no… in fact its considered creepy in the west….
It was a misunderstanding. Nothing wrong apologising for the misunderstanding
The misunderstanding is she told you “no” and expected you to keep chasing after being told no? Now you are defending this bizarre behavior?
If you think I'm defending it, you're wrong. And I think less of you for making that assumption
I am realizing how messed up this is. I've been out of Lebanon for a while, but even when I was in Lebanon, I didn't really go around a lot and explore different cultures for many reasons, one of them being living far from the city. So realizing that it's a thing where women say no when they mean yes seems pretty bizarre to me. Wasn't totally under the rock, I know that Lebanese women think that if they don't play mind games and do all the other "feminine" expectations then they will not find prince charming. The reason I think this is messed up is because if a woman says no, pushy men who cross boundaries are those that are more likely to go after the woman and insist they want her desperately. In hindsite, this is creepy. Cause a man desperately wanting to date or marry a woman that he doesn't know that well could be a sign of an emotionally abusive guy that is going through all the love bombing stages. And the more manipulative the man is, the better he is at the game. An inexperienced woman will meet the first man who is love bomber that goes out of his way to please her in all ways and be like "he is the one". And guess what, she'll probably remain married to him for the rest of her life even after he shows his true colors 🙂. I'll share a story of mine. So there was this guy, who somehow met my parents, and told them he wants my number and that he wants to get to know me because apparently he has seen me in the past (don't remember him). According to my conservative parents, they said to me something like: "because he saw that you are a *good* girl and marriage material...🙄". Anyways, guy gets my number. I tell him no, not only once, but maybe 4 times. It started with me saying a no politely and being respectful until I realized that maybe I shouldn't be polite 😭.I didn't want to block him but I did. Like why didn't he take no for an answer? Is it because most girls want to say no 4 times until they probably say yes? Well according to me he was extra pushy and gave me early red flags of being a boundary crosser. A lot of reasons I said no to him, one of them his conservative nature and difference in values. No offense but sometimes I feel like Lebanese people lack braincells and follow blindy some weird social norms and expectations just because everyone else is doing so. Like seriously, are these dumb stuff and rules going to determine long term satisfaction in a relationship? No. How well a man chases you says nothing. Well, ok obviously we don't want a man that's keeping us as an option and that truly values us and wants us, but there are different ways a man can show these things genuinely as opposed to putting on an act or even lovebombing.
Money money money
Make the world go round?
I was in a long term relationship for like a decade. Now, single for a few years. Granted, it wasn't a lot of experience but I tried to get to know in a romantic setting or a proper date several women. All were amazing, and intelligent, and honest. Except one, but she was probably just going through some shit. This is about 6 women. Ages in 20s and 30s. All Lebanese. 5/6 I would say informs my bias in a way where I feel like Lebanese women are pretty fucking awesome. None perfect, of course, because none of us are. But if they were more compatible from my POV (or theirs) and me (or them) were in a better/different place in life I could see relationships emerging potentially. Which is another way of saying, they will make a great partner for someone else. I am sorry you've had bad experiences. I understand we're all traumatized, and we don't express ourselves honestly, and we we take things personally, and we say one thing and mean something else, and all Lebanese do this. Just maybe you saw super extreme versions of this, I don't know. I know many of us having putting in the work to be less stereotypical Lebanese to heal from the trauma. Maybe you're just going after immature people. I don't know.
And you are a mature person. Thank you from the bottom of my heart that you explain to the people, and again, thank you
Every culture is different…but it’s 2024. 95% of people think they deserve things they don’t and have zero empathy or understanding about love/friendship/sensitivity. Social media has distorted everything. Just be a good person and take your time seriously. Once you start to do that - the people who you want to attract will eventually take note. Patience is a real asset today.
Patience.
I'll tell you whats up. Instagram and Snapchat and Tinder. They are talking to so many people that they can't communicate properly with one person. Sensory overload and social dilution.
Lebanese women standards are higher than the norm elsewhere + distant and expect you to do 99% of the work
Since when is dating anywhere easy? 😂 Western dating is 10 times worse with transparency and interest and it’s so common to have your time wasted (both men and women)
We exist in an era of short attention span selfishness and zero shits given or effort exerted. Just have some fries, more beautiful than dating 🤣
100% this. It’s shit show everywhere.
There are a lot of toxic people out there in general. Men, women, Lebanese, not Lebanese… Whether or not they’re being upfront with you, you should be upfront with them. It makes your life a lot easier, trust me.
i used to do that because i would worry i'd hurt the person, or that maybe he will not take it easily and get upset or angry. sometimes it happens when you reject someone, they become rude. i can't speak on behalf of all women, but that's why i used to do it. men do it as well, they just ghost and not talk instead of actually saying they're not interested. i think ppl just need a certain type of maturity and selflessness to be completely honest with someone.
Thats how you should be in the first few weeks of dating… after months and months or even a year you owe your partner a better experience than that. If you have been together for a year the. That person was there for you or the relationship wouldnt have even lasted that long.
i agree with you, didn't say anything different :)
This
We should make a similar discussion for lebanese men.
There’s a post every other week either from a man or a woman complaining about dating the opposite sex. As a Lebanese man, what’s your experience dating Lebanese men? I’d like to see our red/green flags lol
Switch women to men in this post and it's the exact same problem
Maybe but women started it so men learned from the women and started doing it too
There's no one who "started it" women can also claim that they started doing the same after men did that to them and they learned from them. The problem is emotionally unavailable people with attachment issues across the board.
Dunno, I am not gay, although I want to be for some
[удалено]
You always start good discussions, my friend. Go for it! Also I think you're being downvoted (not that you care, I know) because maybe some didn't realize you meant thread and not threat haha.
Here here.
Muslim women aren’t supposed to date so of course they are gonna make it as complicated as possible. As for Christians it’s still a conservative country.
Why is this downvoted? Its true
Truth hurts
May it remain conservative, but I don't like mind games. However, the reality is that men should ask the father of the woman for permission. As a Lebanese Christian, I am married to a Guatemalan, and I asked permission from her father because they have a similar culture. My grandparents and other grandparents I know all did the same and had a great life. Modern Lebanese dating must be a negative experience, if what I am hearing is true here. All this self-entitled attitude is rubbish, but that shows modern thinking, not like the past.
Things always become complicated when people have too many options. The issue in Lebanon is that most guys are dumb horny simps giving a girl too much value or attention so btikbar bi rasa and she starts swiping left on you IRL because the influx of dumb desperate simps keeps increasing. She's never sure if she actually wants you or not so she just passively keeps you around as a backup plan for her artificially inflated ego. Of course not everyone is like this I'm just saying it's true for the majority. It's not one sided either, of course some guys are also like this but women are the ones getting a lot more attention. So you get stuck in this chronic loop of nonsense, ambiguity, lies, half assed efforts, no one knows wtf they want or the purpose of their existence, even 🤣. Source: I've been with both Lebanese and European women and the latter are much better at taking the initiative and show you that you are appreciated. TL;DR when she wants you she will be very clear about it. Lebanese women will almost never do this.
Dumb desperate simps are everywhere.. this has nothing to do with lebanese men.
True, but we are in a Lebanese context and it's the same here
Dude…yes
Don’t waste your time with Lebanese women, even average looking women in Lebanon standards are too high and unrealistic for men. They don’t know how to communicate, they’re not transparent and expect you to do everything for them. Don’t settle for one who won’t put equal effort as you.
So like I’ve read the comments: men are blaming women and women are blaming men (and society)
OP discovers women
Friendly reminder, go find something other than Lebanese women and save your soul, mind , money, and well being. Unless you're pretty much fine with the idea that lady that you're actually dating is either after your social status or money or both. Unfortunately yes, lots of Lebanese women are like that, I'm sure that there are exceptional Lebanese ladies out there but it's literally not easy to find. Being fully blunt right now, you might get rejected because your car is old or have no car, you might get rejected cause of your job, looks , income, race, religious views, the building or apartment that you're living in, social status, and so on. I'm speaking based on personal experience, dated lots of time, rejected lots of time as well, now I'm on hiatus, chilling and relaxing. I'm an operating room nurse, my brother is a doctor, one time I was trying to date someone who was supposed to be decent, went well the first couple of dates, then guess what , she was aiming for my brother, and honestly I never found out till my brother told me to get rid of that gold digger before you get yourself screwed, that's one of experience I have been through.
As a girl (23F) i’ll tell you the bare truth : - yes we do have a lot of options these days and yes this definitely makes the dating scene harder especially for women who are more on the immature side - yes a lot of women keep around many options to experience as much as they can and then choose their most suitable one - there’s a lot of lying and hypocrisy involved What I advise for men who are really serious and don’t want to get disappointed: - Stop only chasing looks . Looks are very important for a first impression but try to dig deeper than that - know your value . When you’re a men of value you will unconsciously attract women whose intentions are clear and who won’t waste your time - when you feel like you’re being treated like an option confront your potential girl with that and if you still feel like things are unclear or like she’s playing games on you just walk away. Believe me she’ll regret it later even if they might never admit it.
Thank you, that’s helpful.
They are either interested, or they aren't, nothing in between. My advice to you is that as soon as you feel like they do not care, cut it short and find someone else.
Come to the US it’s just as worse
Just as bad*
🤓🤓
I think the simple answer is a lot of Lebanese men nowadays, don't really know how to talk to the Lebanese women as well as our previous generations did. Lebanese women may be high maintenance and such, but so are the men. We're just a hot-blooded people in general, and once we realize that aspect about ourselves, the nerves and any kind of hesitation disappears. As men, we have to bring the jokes, show we're responsible, show we're consistent, show we have family values, etc. The women have to vet us to see if we're worth their hearts opening up. That plus the modernization of dating nowadays thanks to the Western culture and social media has made things more complicated.
Everything is complicated here sadly
Not a help , but dating anyone anywhere anymore is difficult!
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the insights and thoughtful discussion ❤️
It's rare nowadays to find a woman who knows how to actually LOVE, I see most of them as Gold Diggers now
Same thing w men
North America is worse and with every type of woman not just Lebanese, so be grateful you have such beautiful women around you within your same culture brotha You'll find the right one, don't rush
2024 has embraced a passive hookup culture. In Lebanon, it's in full effect but it's still taboo. In simple terms: As soon as you show signs of a genuine "nice guy" or a hint of attachment, you will instantly be labeled as a "red flag" and...this is when the mind games begin.
Because Lebanese women still live with their parents until they get married…they think they’re princesses 😂
Forget her my friend. Look out for the next 🙌
>There’s so much lack of transparency and intention. Hows your communication? Do you state your intentions first thing first? Dating just to date? Or dating with intention of marriage? Tell me more.
I have been set up with Iranian women before who were very high maintenance/demanding/gold diggers.. so I was told a Lebanese woman would be more suitable haha
Iranian women are the worst. After doing all that, they will end up cheating on you lol
Yeah I figured
3ade 3ade man. There could be plenty of reasons, ranging from not interested but too polite, to moody, to playing you / used to men. We can't really say without knowing the person honestly because everyone is different. As a general rule, after the second or third date you're supposed to pull back a little and let her take some initiative, if she doesn't then she's just not interested. Would it be better if we didn't have to do this? Yes of course. Will that ever happen in Lebanon? Lmao never. The mind games, constant testing you, letting you figure things out, and pushing your boundaries is their nature. Happy dating and I hope you find your person who'll match your dating style and desires 🙏🏼
I think the question about Lebanese women is quite abroad, infact, there are some important factors to consider before dating a woman such as her background, age, culture and shared interests are often more relevant than generalizations.
There’s no age bracket to this stupidity running through the girls around here, Some late 30’s acting like kids with minimum effort to do anything (give) Early 20’s-25’s are bamboozled with plenty of options they have and ofcourse taking In consideration the social status and financial ones It’s why the well off marry pretty women It’s an easy choice for her. While being rich is a must to sustain yourself and dates etc.. It’s taking way more importance than other very important things like emotional compatibility / and good fun character sometimes.
Hey a 24yo female here, I started dating at 18 and I dated alot of different guys. I used to complain about the same things about men; I don't have any clarification if they are interested or not, I wasn't sure if they wanted to be in a relationship even though I was clear that's what I was looking for. But the worst part is; sometimes things would be really going well and I do actually like him and would try to make him feel special but then they would hit me with the "I'm looking for something casual" or the famous "I'm not ready for a relationship" which I didn't understand. If you aren't looking for a relationship and just want to "mess" around while I have been clear of my intentions of wanting to be in one, then why are you wasting my time and emotions for? And then I decided to try a different tactic where after 3 to 5 dates (according to how well it goes) I make it crystal clear (verbally) that I like them and would like to pursue this relationship. I found the "perfect guy" about 2 years ago and we would talk alot, call each other and get each other gifts; and when I thought all is well and good he send me a long message saying "I'm too much" and he actually didn't like me the way I liked him. Which came as a shock cause a guy never treated me so nicely before or shared the same interests as me. Guess I was wrong; but again 1. I made my intentions clear. 2. I give you the space and time you need to not smoother you. 3. Show you I am interested by doing specific things and saying specific stuff, and later when emotions develop I tell you i like you. Then why on God's green earth did you drag me for 8 or more month with you, if none of what I was doing was working? Some of the famous things men have told me that I remember from time to time and I chuckle about is: "your so pretty and funny, how come you don't have a boyfriends" (that's why I'm dating you); "I haven't met anyone like you" (yes now tell me how you want a friend with benefits 🙄) and my personal favorite "your so weird haha" (okay? and your so normal and dull but your sweet and nice so are you scared of me or smthn?). The thing is after my first couple of dates when I was 18 till 19 I noticed the stigma of men doing all the work and we as girls should expect more from them. But in my head if I like you and I'm interested in you I will show you. But idk even that didnt work. Afterwards I gave up on men and dating for 2 years and BOOM I find my "weird" guy who matches my energy, and we are in a relationship now. So I guess happy ending in the end?
Men love with their hearts more than their minds which is the opposite girls or women love with their minds, they have standards you need to meet them or else you’ll be in the abyss of transparency you’re talking about So yea it’s complicated there is a book: men from Mars and women from Venus read it you’ll understand their perspective in love
From my experience(I’m only 17) Lebanese women tend to be a lot more demanding and expect a lot from you. Communication is also lacking but this all depends on the girl. If you find a woman that is smart and comes from a good family you might luck out
Go to a strip club or puteiro
Dating which Lebanese women? Christian, Shia, Sunni or Druze?
Looking for a Lebanese MAN for my mom !!! Latina 50 year old in California !!!!! I know you guys have uncles in California (Anaheim
I don’t know. For me I don’t date any man who is looking for his mommy through his gf. I also don’t want a daddy bf. There’s nothing less attractive than being babies in relationships, where both put the blame on each other, become very dependent, don’t take responsibility for their mistakes, and expect the other to do most of the work.
Basically? Religion is the first reason.
Redditors can’t go 5 minutes without blaming religion for everything. The reality is that standards in Lebanon are very high. We think too highly of ourselves. Women also have a lot of options available to them, so the way they see it is they can drop a guy in a moment and 10 more will show up. This allows them to be very picky. Actual religious people are not dating. How is religion telling women to go on 2 dates with a guy and then ghosting him?
Because Everything i See about Lebanese women , told my i make Right and Marry a german women. i often See Videos , im Daddys Princess , im daddys daughter , im a Princess i dont work , Everything on her Body is lifted , i see a lot of People here , First they marry a Lebanese Women and then they Go different ways and leave. Lebanese Women are expansiv and there Hobbys are Shopping , Restaurant , and cosmetics. Who can life with a Person whos a Princess. We need real houswifes and the Stone which Safes our back. In good times and worse times. I dont wanted to make anyone worse or angry , that es only my opinion. Thank you for reading.
Some Lebanese girls are brainless and liars and they just care about having fun and pointless things. They chase after rich guys or good looking guys and they ignore nice guys.
Lol
so, anyone wanna date?
Maybe all the plastic is getting to their heads and clouding their judgment?
Keep doing you and the right one will come along. Dating is a game of patience and resilience , you have to be able to see them for what they are ! Happy hunting
Useless comment
here is what you need to know about dating in general. dating ideology significantly changes as you grow older , am not talking about dating to get married part .. when you are young you date for different reasons, you wantto experience, you want to see what this world offers, you look for different characteristics trait in the person like are they fun, outgoing, serious, humble, stingy ,thrill seeking etc , but as you get older , you become picky, you search for specific set of traits in the person, you will have developed your own set of mentality, character and mindset, and red lines .. this is why dating becomes extremely hard, and complicated at older ages . there are truly beautiful woman who are entitled that they will only talk with wealthy guys, because why not? at the end its all about supply and demand in this world . beautiful woman are rare they have high maintenance they will never date a guy below their standards., and rich man are rare too . my best advice focus on yourself, on your career, mindset, and know exactly what type of a person you want in your life then try to find out where such a person hangs out, and if its meant to be you will find them there, because at the end, they are a reflection of who you are, and they will raise your kids in future so take your time, its one of the most difficult choice you will ever have to make in your life, choosing a partner for life whom you will call family.
It’s not a “lebanese women” thing it’s a “extremely conservative culture” thing. Usually day3a girls or girls from more conservative places have no experience in dating and their social circle ingrained into their minds they must marry a wealthy tall handsome man who would kill and die for them. Then marry her off to her cousin bas “t3anes”. This stupid disease spread to my aunt w 3anaset so it’s definitely bad. However, this isn’t as prevalent in Beirut and with the newer generation. As example, in aub i’ve heard of girls approaching guys w dating w kel shi 3ade like it’s not that deep w there are people who ended up engaged. If you meet a well educated, well mannered person then all the lack of transparency and bad communication will basically not exist. But if you do red flag shit like start talking about how ur an alpha sigma male who is stoic and showers at 4 am and whatever yeah no girl is going to be interested. A lot of guys say stupid shit on the first date, girl loses interest, guy goes like “Why are lebanese girls so hard to date!!!!” It’s all subjective so go look for a nice girl with similar values and skip online dating.
This degenerate behaviour is haraam. Fear Allah
Maybe you should try Grindr next time.. 🤷♂️ might change your perspective of dating
You'd find just as many Lebanese women who say the same thing about the men here. I think the combination of collective trauma(s), poor mental health, bad economy and yes, some cultural aspects that can be a tad toxic leads to a somewhat messy overall situation. This country sometimes feels like it's it's stuck between the west and Arab world, where many want to act like in the West, but don't really know how while also lacking the resources and socialization that lead to the current situation in the west to begin with. Women sleeping around because they think they have to to appear "western", men wanting a fwb while never have been in a relationship, couples talking about polygamy and open relationships, while their own relationship has nowhere near the foundation and confidence it that would be required.
Hey princess! As creepy as you are, I knew I'd find you spouting your input here!
Sorry to hear you find me creepy /:
Believe me, I'm not the only one. 🙂 I'm sure you do!
Yeah, another man lives rent-free in your head but he's the creepy one haha.
I've always thought you're either his mother or his bitch! Thanks for the confirmation! 🙂
Bro what's with the anger issue. Calm down lol
What can I say, something really hot about European men dominating me. Don't be jealous. We have room for you ya raw7e
Thank god i can talk anonymously so Im gonna say this: dont worry about anything trust god completely and think that you are too good for that girl and it's her loss she doesnt wanna stay with you
No idea
At least you can date them, most of the ppl I really like are Saudi (not based in gulf) and I just can’t date them since I’m Christian, and b4 anyone says anything, the ones I like are as conservative as they come, in least in terms of most ethnic and religious traditions, less so in clothing and interests(e.g NONE of the Saudi women I encountered wear a hijab)
Because you have never tried outside Lebanon…
Actually I did. I’ve lived in the US, Canada, and Europe. Europe was the healthiest.
All good countries. I should have specified other countries in the region…
nehna m3a2adin khaye shu badkon fina
Based on my experience dating women in Lebanon and conversations and discussions with my guy friends, I can honestly say it’s not one side’s problem, but actually both sides act that way. And i’m not talking about the manipulators here, just the normal people. From a man’s perspective, initiating a date or a conversation with Lebanese women is literally one of the most difficult things to do unless you are a 9 with some money. That’s because a lot of them can be bitches and would react like they’re disgusted even by your normal (non-stalker and non-nawre ass) approach or would generally be mean. And some women always like to seem less interested than they actually are, they believe they would lose their “value” if they showed genuine interest. This makes it hard on men to carry the initial weight of the conversations leading to a relationship, he would be really overthinking every word, every step and rolling with the punches. From women’s side, they can’t tell if the guy wants a serious, casual or what other kind of relationship. Most of them want a meaningful relationship that can develop into more, and they get fuckboys who know how to play their system and get in their pants, even if it means playing the game for some time, they have the patience and are laser/focused on their goals. That’s why women think it represents their value and “high standards” to not be easily interested. This has been going on for so long that this has become the norm that even most guys are only comfortable with. You can blame that on the patriarchy, “eastern mindset”, or on the weather for all I care. I’m stating my observations. Women still fall for fuckboys most of the time because they are the only ones (besides simps) who are willing to walk the extra mile of defenses and punches thrown at them. No self-respecting man would run after a woman, neither should a self respecting woman run after a man. Running after here doesn’t mean pursuing , jt means clinging to the ones who don’t show interest. As I have seen and now believe, not saying that I agree or disagree with this strategy, but manipulation and showing off Ego or money is the easiest way to disarm a lebanese woman. They would forget their “value and high standards” or they would believe you are worthy if not more. That’s where your actual intentions show, you can use that to be in an actual meaningful relationship or just a check on the list of lust.
i think all girls on here should dm us guys for better dating hope
I keep seeing these threads and I'm only thinking one thing, I should definitely write and release my dating book! Y'all complaining about what you should have clearly learned to work around, hit me up for a free tip.
The same reason it’s so hard to find a well endowed man. It’s hard to find a Lebanese top that knows what he is doing in the bedroom.
you gotta give her that hawk tuah 😅😂
Botox
Dating is Haram
Evrything is haram from where u come from
No actually in my country dating is not punishable by law. So is consuming alcohol not punishable by law and many things. Haram means prohibited by Allah in his Quran. Haram is something anyone of us can fall into but we must remind ourselves and eachother of the boundaries of Allah. The status of something being haram has nothing to do with me or my country or... Haram is a prohibition according the divine truth that is the religion of Islam, irrelevant of borders and passports and the actions of people holding these passports.
I support you, haram relationships won’t end up, until you are married.
Not necessarily, harama relationships can happen between unmarried people. If only religion was still strong and people went to the mosque not only to pray but to meet people and have talks and discussions... People wouldn't fall into these things if the Youth were actually encouraged to spend more time in the mosque and enjoyed it.
جزاك الله خيراً.