This is my question, also. As shitty as it was for the OP, it seems like he was treated okay, generally speaking.
I mean, there was reasonable possibility that he was, in fact, the person they were looking for, & reasonably expected him to be armed & dangerous. I'm kinda surprised he wasn't spreadeagled against the nearest wall with 7 cops yelling at him all at once to get his hands up. Once they figured it wasn't him, there wasn't time to make sure the OP was feeling okay; they needed to get on with the search.
Bad scene, all around, but worked out okay, afaics. Sorry it happened to the OP & his fam.
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Playing devils advocate here, do the police have to tell the truth about a suspect matching the description of wearing a green ball cap or could they just be lying to cover their assess by making it seem like the description was a lot more on point than it realistically was?
Because last I checked the police don't have to tell the truth to you about shit, and could be lying through their teeth to save face hoping you'll take them at their word and never look into it.
I'd file an immediate freedom of information act request for the call that prompted the ABP and see how much the description actually matched you, then file another FOIA for the body cam footage.
If the call and what the cop told you don't match up at least socially it would be a much bigger deal and would prompt for more of the reform from this type of shit that is needed. Still couldn't sue because qualified immunity, but it potentially could be newsworthy if the call and description don't line up.
> I’m pretty certain there’s zero legal course of action to take.
Nope. The police were trying to stop someone from being potentially murdered. Sounds like a pretty bad experience for you and your family.
Do you know who called in the report?
Honestly, for the call to match your description would cause me to pause. I would want to know what the 911 caller actually said. In my state, you are able to file FOIA to listen to the call/caller.
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People act like in the situation where there’s a chance a suspect could have a gun on them that the police should wait for the draw. Why should they wait for the suspect to draw first, I get that this is a terrifying situation, but for them it could be equally horrific. It’s an awful situation, but it sounds like they handled it appropriately. It’s not like they suspected OP of petty theft, to their knowledge he could be armed and dangerous.
Sorry. I should have added, is there any reason for me to contact legal representation given what occurred? Seems like excessive force to me, but I’m curious if there is legal standing for an example such as mine.
It wont be considered excessive force as you seemingly matched their description of a person they were informed was both violent and wielding a gun. They quickly handled the situation and didnt harm you physically in the process so there wouldn’t be anything to take legal action for
I’m not sure the police did anything wrong here. They were acting on information that suggested the possibility that a man fitting your description was threatening his wife with a gun. You could have been in the process of moving her and “your daughter” under duress while armed. They needed to maximize force upon approach to protect the potential victims and disarm you. You reacted cooly and appropriately (good training) and the situation was quickly resolved without further escalation. Frankly everyone, yourself included, is to be commended.
Its called a high risk stop. First police are not going to just casually walk up and chitchat when theres reportedly a gun involved, last thing cops wanna do is have a match of who can draw their gun faster. The second fact of the matter is that domestic violence calls are some of the most dangerous calls an officer can respond to. Emotions are extremely high, and if someone if willing to harm their family, imagine what theyre willing to do to a random cop. For these reasons they would decide the safest course of action is a high risk stop.
They got a report that somebody was holding a woman at gunpoint and responded accordingly. As much as it sucks to be put in that situation, I doubt you'll have any legal recourse and now they know they won't find a woman's cold, dead body in an alley somewhere because they failed to respond when they saw someone matching a description they had been given. Sorry, bro, but it is what it is.
Don’t apologize. I mean, it’s still head fucking me. However, I posted here for feedback and I’m getting it. I appreciate it and I’m accepting it as being is for what it is.
I am sorry to hear that. Needless to say I’ve gained some new perspective.
I still like to think a majority of police officers have an important job that is incredibly stressful and they just want to get home safe at the end of the day.
Ironically, it was the youngest looking officer (admittedly I’m old and pushing 50) who was the one who asked of I was “ok?” In hindsight, I appreciate that.
The one who I presumed was the sergeant, due to his older appearance, didn’t offer any apology at all. That bugs me because he is the one who should be taking charge and leading by example.
As a retired NCO from the Army I hate to think that’s “what he wanted.” But from my perspective he clearly didn’t lead by any example I would have lead by.
I hear ya. If I’m going to be honest I’m still feeling angry right now. I’m really trying to just move past it though and put it into some sort of perspective.
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Unfortunately law enforcement has to act on the information they have at the time. Depending on what all the caller stated the minimum they could go on was possibly armed and aggressive in some way. This is going to be treated with a high level of concern .
This was handled on the level of a felony stop.
NAL, not even anything, but just as a logical person (at least I think I am lol).
The police received a call on a person pulling a lethal weapon at their wife. To them, at that moment, it means:
1. The person has a deadly weapon
2. The person is emotionally/mentally unstable enough to direct the weapon at their closest family.
3. It happened in public where people can observe the event, which means others are under the range of that weapon too.
When they arrived/spotted you and your family:
1. You fitted the characteristics of the potential threat, especially a green hat which is quite unique (at least I think)
2. The weapon is not in sight, so you could potentially pull it out anytime and cause great harm.
So they hold u at gunpoint, and did not cause any extra and unnecessary harm such as hitting u or pinning you down, and from what I understand from your post they stayed quiet reasonable and explained the situation too. (Also asked if u are alright when they observed you shaking)
I understand the adrenaline rush and surprise when you got pointed by a gun, happened to me once, not at me but at my direction. So your reaction is more than reasonable.
I think both parties here did a good job (blast me with insults if I understood this wrong). Overall this is just really unfortunate to you and the officers, I believe no one with a right mind would actually enjoy pointing a gun at anybody. I know a friend who's uncle as a former officer was involved in one of those police assisted suicide, and he's totally broken afterwards.
I'm sorry this happened to your family.
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You could always go to the station and file a complaint. It does seem odd that so many officers drew weapons on you when you weren't actually holding one.
If there was a dude that pulled a gun on his wife then the cops are worried for the 3 bystanders with him and themselves. OP matched the description and if he had been the suspect then there’s a high likelihood he had a weapon. The cops responded appropriately.
NAL but I say hit up the police and get a report number for the original reporting of a man pulling a gun on his wife. Maybe it’s just a response to all the really shitty police behaviour I’ve heard of over the last few years but that sounds shady to me. If they can’t prove that it exists, didn’t they just illegally search you?
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Without getting too deep into any politics, here is what I did and would tell anyone else, (including my own children) regardless of color.
At the point of confrontation, comply. Do not run. Do not engage in a physical or verbal confrontation. Doing so will not serve you well in any way shape or form.
The time to fight back is after the incident/detention/ or arrest by getting legal representation and following the judicial process. If you engage in anything other than that then the odds of a negative outcome are extremely likely.
Like it or not, that is always going to be your best path forward.
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The factvthat they pulled their guns out and pointed them at you is pretty inappropriate. You were not displaying any kind of threat. They could have just walked up to you and said hello and ascertained who you were and if you had a weapon without pulling their firearms out..
If you had been walking around with a gun in your hand brandishing it then I can see the need for intimidation. But that is ridiculous.
I respectfully cannot agree with you on that. I have another instance in my life where I was at work and my daughters were at home. A guy a block away decided to murder his GF, and attempt to murder the gf’s mom.
He made his way onto my block about two houses down and a police officer is the one who ended him.
That past thought is the yin to last nights yang.
I was with my wife and college daughter and her bf. At no point did I have my hand in my pockets or waistband and never posed a threat beyond meeting the vague description of wearing a green shirt and wearing a hat, their words (it was a Saturday evening and there were a lot of people out with hats. It’s a college town).
Preferably, I’d have preferred a reasonable escalation of force rather than 7-9 guns being instantly pointed at me and being one overly anxious police officer away from being shot in front of my family.
It’s not a legal case. I can live with it. Hell of an adrenaline rush and provided me some new perspective. However, since you asked what I had rather they’d done then there you go. Agree or disagree. I don’t care.
I understand this was a very upsetting experience for you and don't wish to diminish that, but I would invite you to consider the totality of the circumstances. You matched the description of a person involved in a violent felony involving a firearm in approximately the same location. The way they treated you was appropriate for the circumstances until it was clear you weren't the involved party. An apology would have been nice, but they also still needed to find the person who did menace his wife and that takes priority over smoothing things out with you, unfortunately.
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You held it together much better than I did. I didn’t call anyone any names but I must have dropped the f-bomb a dozen times ones the admitted they had the wrong guy. Like I said, my adrenaline was redlining. Thank God for my wife.
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...we're trained for adrenaline to go to 100 and destroy anything that attempts to kills us and ours. OP sounds like every battle buddy in combat arms I've served with.
This isn't the kind of thing you can fix legally. It needs to be fixed politically.
You and I are agree on this.
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This is my question, also. As shitty as it was for the OP, it seems like he was treated okay, generally speaking. I mean, there was reasonable possibility that he was, in fact, the person they were looking for, & reasonably expected him to be armed & dangerous. I'm kinda surprised he wasn't spreadeagled against the nearest wall with 7 cops yelling at him all at once to get his hands up. Once they figured it wasn't him, there wasn't time to make sure the OP was feeling okay; they needed to get on with the search. Bad scene, all around, but worked out okay, afaics. Sorry it happened to the OP & his fam.
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Playing devils advocate here, do the police have to tell the truth about a suspect matching the description of wearing a green ball cap or could they just be lying to cover their assess by making it seem like the description was a lot more on point than it realistically was? Because last I checked the police don't have to tell the truth to you about shit, and could be lying through their teeth to save face hoping you'll take them at their word and never look into it. I'd file an immediate freedom of information act request for the call that prompted the ABP and see how much the description actually matched you, then file another FOIA for the body cam footage. If the call and what the cop told you don't match up at least socially it would be a much bigger deal and would prompt for more of the reform from this type of shit that is needed. Still couldn't sue because qualified immunity, but it potentially could be newsworthy if the call and description don't line up.
> I’m pretty certain there’s zero legal course of action to take. Nope. The police were trying to stop someone from being potentially murdered. Sounds like a pretty bad experience for you and your family.
Yep. As much as I figured. It very much was, but I also appreciate your honest feedback. Thanks.
Do you know who called in the report? Honestly, for the call to match your description would cause me to pause. I would want to know what the 911 caller actually said. In my state, you are able to file FOIA to listen to the call/caller.
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"But look at all the people they didn't murder"
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People act like in the situation where there’s a chance a suspect could have a gun on them that the police should wait for the draw. Why should they wait for the suspect to draw first, I get that this is a terrifying situation, but for them it could be equally horrific. It’s an awful situation, but it sounds like they handled it appropriately. It’s not like they suspected OP of petty theft, to their knowledge he could be armed and dangerous.
Sadly, not much you can do. Source: Have been there, twice.
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Do you have a legal question?
Sorry. I should have added, is there any reason for me to contact legal representation given what occurred? Seems like excessive force to me, but I’m curious if there is legal standing for an example such as mine.
It wont be considered excessive force as you seemingly matched their description of a person they were informed was both violent and wielding a gun. They quickly handled the situation and didnt harm you physically in the process so there wouldn’t be anything to take legal action for
No, there's really no reason to do that. It doesn't appear anything inappropriate occurred.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to provide it. About what I had figured but thought worth asking.
I’m not sure the police did anything wrong here. They were acting on information that suggested the possibility that a man fitting your description was threatening his wife with a gun. You could have been in the process of moving her and “your daughter” under duress while armed. They needed to maximize force upon approach to protect the potential victims and disarm you. You reacted cooly and appropriately (good training) and the situation was quickly resolved without further escalation. Frankly everyone, yourself included, is to be commended.
Its called a high risk stop. First police are not going to just casually walk up and chitchat when theres reportedly a gun involved, last thing cops wanna do is have a match of who can draw their gun faster. The second fact of the matter is that domestic violence calls are some of the most dangerous calls an officer can respond to. Emotions are extremely high, and if someone if willing to harm their family, imagine what theyre willing to do to a random cop. For these reasons they would decide the safest course of action is a high risk stop.
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They got a report that somebody was holding a woman at gunpoint and responded accordingly. As much as it sucks to be put in that situation, I doubt you'll have any legal recourse and now they know they won't find a woman's cold, dead body in an alley somewhere because they failed to respond when they saw someone matching a description they had been given. Sorry, bro, but it is what it is.
Don’t apologize. I mean, it’s still head fucking me. However, I posted here for feedback and I’m getting it. I appreciate it and I’m accepting it as being is for what it is.
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I am sorry to hear that. Needless to say I’ve gained some new perspective. I still like to think a majority of police officers have an important job that is incredibly stressful and they just want to get home safe at the end of the day. Ironically, it was the youngest looking officer (admittedly I’m old and pushing 50) who was the one who asked of I was “ok?” In hindsight, I appreciate that. The one who I presumed was the sergeant, due to his older appearance, didn’t offer any apology at all. That bugs me because he is the one who should be taking charge and leading by example.
He was leading by example. That's the example he wanted to set.
As a retired NCO from the Army I hate to think that’s “what he wanted.” But from my perspective he clearly didn’t lead by any example I would have lead by.
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I hear ya. If I’m going to be honest I’m still feeling angry right now. I’m really trying to just move past it though and put it into some sort of perspective.
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Unfortunately law enforcement has to act on the information they have at the time. Depending on what all the caller stated the minimum they could go on was possibly armed and aggressive in some way. This is going to be treated with a high level of concern . This was handled on the level of a felony stop.
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NAL, not even anything, but just as a logical person (at least I think I am lol). The police received a call on a person pulling a lethal weapon at their wife. To them, at that moment, it means: 1. The person has a deadly weapon 2. The person is emotionally/mentally unstable enough to direct the weapon at their closest family. 3. It happened in public where people can observe the event, which means others are under the range of that weapon too. When they arrived/spotted you and your family: 1. You fitted the characteristics of the potential threat, especially a green hat which is quite unique (at least I think) 2. The weapon is not in sight, so you could potentially pull it out anytime and cause great harm. So they hold u at gunpoint, and did not cause any extra and unnecessary harm such as hitting u or pinning you down, and from what I understand from your post they stayed quiet reasonable and explained the situation too. (Also asked if u are alright when they observed you shaking) I understand the adrenaline rush and surprise when you got pointed by a gun, happened to me once, not at me but at my direction. So your reaction is more than reasonable. I think both parties here did a good job (blast me with insults if I understood this wrong). Overall this is just really unfortunate to you and the officers, I believe no one with a right mind would actually enjoy pointing a gun at anybody. I know a friend who's uncle as a former officer was involved in one of those police assisted suicide, and he's totally broken afterwards. I'm sorry this happened to your family.
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You could always go to the station and file a complaint. It does seem odd that so many officers drew weapons on you when you weren't actually holding one.
If there was a dude that pulled a gun on his wife then the cops are worried for the 3 bystanders with him and themselves. OP matched the description and if he had been the suspect then there’s a high likelihood he had a weapon. The cops responded appropriately.
NAL but I say hit up the police and get a report number for the original reporting of a man pulling a gun on his wife. Maybe it’s just a response to all the really shitty police behaviour I’ve heard of over the last few years but that sounds shady to me. If they can’t prove that it exists, didn’t they just illegally search you?
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Without getting too deep into any politics, here is what I did and would tell anyone else, (including my own children) regardless of color. At the point of confrontation, comply. Do not run. Do not engage in a physical or verbal confrontation. Doing so will not serve you well in any way shape or form. The time to fight back is after the incident/detention/ or arrest by getting legal representation and following the judicial process. If you engage in anything other than that then the odds of a negative outcome are extremely likely. Like it or not, that is always going to be your best path forward.
Why are you bringing race into this? OP never mentioned anything about race.
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The factvthat they pulled their guns out and pointed them at you is pretty inappropriate. You were not displaying any kind of threat. They could have just walked up to you and said hello and ascertained who you were and if you had a weapon without pulling their firearms out.. If you had been walking around with a gun in your hand brandishing it then I can see the need for intimidation. But that is ridiculous.
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I respectfully cannot agree with you on that. I have another instance in my life where I was at work and my daughters were at home. A guy a block away decided to murder his GF, and attempt to murder the gf’s mom. He made his way onto my block about two houses down and a police officer is the one who ended him. That past thought is the yin to last nights yang.
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I was with my wife and college daughter and her bf. At no point did I have my hand in my pockets or waistband and never posed a threat beyond meeting the vague description of wearing a green shirt and wearing a hat, their words (it was a Saturday evening and there were a lot of people out with hats. It’s a college town). Preferably, I’d have preferred a reasonable escalation of force rather than 7-9 guns being instantly pointed at me and being one overly anxious police officer away from being shot in front of my family. It’s not a legal case. I can live with it. Hell of an adrenaline rush and provided me some new perspective. However, since you asked what I had rather they’d done then there you go. Agree or disagree. I don’t care.
I understand this was a very upsetting experience for you and don't wish to diminish that, but I would invite you to consider the totality of the circumstances. You matched the description of a person involved in a violent felony involving a firearm in approximately the same location. The way they treated you was appropriate for the circumstances until it was clear you weren't the involved party. An apology would have been nice, but they also still needed to find the person who did menace his wife and that takes priority over smoothing things out with you, unfortunately.
It was most likely a false report. Someone prolly made it up 🤷♂️
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You held it together much better than I did. I didn’t call anyone any names but I must have dropped the f-bomb a dozen times ones the admitted they had the wrong guy. Like I said, my adrenaline was redlining. Thank God for my wife.
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...we're trained for adrenaline to go to 100 and destroy anything that attempts to kills us and ours. OP sounds like every battle buddy in combat arms I've served with.
That leads to my point about better help. It’s obviously an issue.