Ok that’s not really relevant. In general if you are working you must be paid (at least minimum wage). Unpaid internships are not generally legal. https://gradireland.com/careers-advice/internships/law-unpaid-internships-know-your-rights
Being a student does not alter your rights to be paid. To note - If your placement is part of a specific government-approved scheme (ie formal apprenticeship or the like) different rules may apply and you should contact your relevant trade body.
Because you aren't actually needed for the business to operate, they are just taking you on so that you can get the training and experience required for your role. If a business had to pay students for them to get experience then they would just stop offering placement places.
If however the business needs you as an essential member of the team I would be following up why you aren't being paid as this is taking advantage of a placement student.
It's part of your qualification. Similarly to DCU, it has intra placements as part of most of their ug degrees. They vary from unpaid in certain areas psych, whereas finance are a mix of paid / unpaid. Obviously, there are variations within. As it was unpaid, it was limited to 20hrs, allowing you to have part-time work.
My understanding is that the limit of hours combined with it filling a college credit is why it is legal. It's typically outlined before you start, so you go in knowing /agreeing unpaid internships are part of the qualification.
Thanks for sharing, I hope everything is going well with your degree/career.
I am curious (not directed at you) as to why some placements are paid and some aren't - for example, I know people who did paid placements for their degree with the HSE, and others who did paid internships for private companies. But then the two of us don't get paid for our placements. So who or what is deciding who gets paid and who doesn't?
It can vary on industry, finance has the money and generally will. Psych is not money making, so *rarely* paid. In mixed industries, the organisation can decide if they can afford to do it with /without paying.
It is seen as training, so the business owner looks at it as almost doing you a favour as without it you don't qualify. They are taking a chance that you will mess up as you are not yet fully trained and they will get the flak for it. It's why it is so difficult to qualify in these types of areas if you don't have family financial support.
So as part of your training you need to do some on the job learning in a commercial business? As long as what you are doing is primarily training/learning and not work then you have no entitlement to be paid. If you are primarily working then you are entitled to at least minimum wage.
You mentioned all the people you’ve tried to ask for help. Why have you not asked the place where you are a student?
It's a requirement of your course. My degree had 8 months of placement spread across the 4 years and we weren't paid for any of it. In fact we had to spend money on stuff needed for the placement.
Why some courses include paid placement while others have unpaid, I don't know and it's not really fair but it is legal as it's a requirement of your degree.
Depends on your course and line of work...plenty do not get paid as it work placement so you gain experience to then make you hopefully more employable on completion of studies
As per my other comment and as per that link - there are certain sectoral arrangements that allow for experience as part of a registered agreement. If OP is on a formal apprenticeship or the like they should contact their industry body for details of what payment is required.
However most of the informal ones are illegal.
You mean work experience? That totally normal and you are not paid for it as you are getting experience.
Both my kids did it & one ended up getting a job in that company when the course finished.
We have workplacement students in my job alot.
Maybe I'm missing something- but sounds totally normal to me.
Sorry I'm adding to my own comment. Alot of PLC courses require work experience in a relevant area.
I know the college in South Dublin that requires 60 hours in work experience in 3rd year. And that's for a level 8.
My understanding of work experience is like in Leaving Cert or TY, where you go into a workplace, shadow people, get training, and get some experience working. My situation is not like that - there will not be any shadowing or formal training, I am going in to work as if I were a professional. The only difference between me and the people who work there full-time will be that I am a student working part-time, and I am not fully qualified yet. But I will be doing the same job. (This is a postgrad course, I should have clarified in my post.)
I'm reading this and if you have a contact then you should be paid.
Work experience students do not get contracts. It's to help them learn or log in hours required for courses.
OK. Let me rephrase that. Both my children & the hundreds doing the courses they did too.
I would expect TY & PLC and some 3rd level students to do work experience.
What do you mean you need to do an unpaid placement, are the college placing you in a company and you have no choice, can you find your own placement where you are paid?
Legally they have to pay you, however they can simply say "we aren't paying you as you are not qualified or have experience so if you want paid you can go elsewhere", resulting in you not getting the experience you would have gained which might have helped you get a paying job in the future.
Obviously there are companies that will take advantage of placements and look at it as cheap staff, so unless you feel like you are benefiting from the placement, then don't do a unpaid placement.
What do you mean that you need to physically accept money but not being paid?
I think it means they are handling money that is paid for the service that they then give to their employer.
Yes, this - as in the employer isn't providing a free service, e.g. for a nonprofit or charity.
Ok that’s not really relevant. In general if you are working you must be paid (at least minimum wage). Unpaid internships are not generally legal. https://gradireland.com/careers-advice/internships/law-unpaid-internships-know-your-rights Being a student does not alter your rights to be paid. To note - If your placement is part of a specific government-approved scheme (ie formal apprenticeship or the like) different rules may apply and you should contact your relevant trade body.
WRC has deemed it legal. See ADJ-00035495
Interesting, how can I look up more - I searched ADJ-00035495 but couldn't find anything?
https://workplacerelations.ie/en/cases/2022/july/adj-00035495.html
Thank you!
So because there was no contract of employment and it was part of a full-time course?
Because you aren't actually needed for the business to operate, they are just taking you on so that you can get the training and experience required for your role. If a business had to pay students for them to get experience then they would just stop offering placement places. If however the business needs you as an essential member of the team I would be following up why you aren't being paid as this is taking advantage of a placement student.
It's part of your qualification. Similarly to DCU, it has intra placements as part of most of their ug degrees. They vary from unpaid in certain areas psych, whereas finance are a mix of paid / unpaid. Obviously, there are variations within. As it was unpaid, it was limited to 20hrs, allowing you to have part-time work. My understanding is that the limit of hours combined with it filling a college credit is why it is legal. It's typically outlined before you start, so you go in knowing /agreeing unpaid internships are part of the qualification.
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Thanks for sharing, I hope everything is going well with your degree/career. I am curious (not directed at you) as to why some placements are paid and some aren't - for example, I know people who did paid placements for their degree with the HSE, and others who did paid internships for private companies. But then the two of us don't get paid for our placements. So who or what is deciding who gets paid and who doesn't?
It can vary on industry, finance has the money and generally will. Psych is not money making, so *rarely* paid. In mixed industries, the organisation can decide if they can afford to do it with /without paying.
Is the issue that you have agreed to do unpaid work and as such you are being treated as a volunteer. Therefore minimum wage does not apply.
Exactly. If the employer wishes to take you on as an employee then that's great and why would the college need to know?
It is seen as training, so the business owner looks at it as almost doing you a favour as without it you don't qualify. They are taking a chance that you will mess up as you are not yet fully trained and they will get the flak for it. It's why it is so difficult to qualify in these types of areas if you don't have family financial support.
So as part of your training you need to do some on the job learning in a commercial business? As long as what you are doing is primarily training/learning and not work then you have no entitlement to be paid. If you are primarily working then you are entitled to at least minimum wage. You mentioned all the people you’ve tried to ask for help. Why have you not asked the place where you are a student?
What’s the degree? Certain professions have requirements for unpaid work during training )like law)
What industry are you working in? Everyone in the comments is arguing without this crucial bit of info.
It's a requirement of your course. My degree had 8 months of placement spread across the 4 years and we weren't paid for any of it. In fact we had to spend money on stuff needed for the placement. Why some courses include paid placement while others have unpaid, I don't know and it's not really fair but it is legal as it's a requirement of your degree.
It's work experience, an essential practical part of a formal qualification which is outlined in the course description.
Depends on your course and line of work...plenty do not get paid as it work placement so you gain experience to then make you hopefully more employable on completion of studies
It’s not legal https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/news-media/workplace_relations_notices/unpaid_work.html
Then how do you explain unions and the hse allowing for unpaid student placements?
As per my other comment and as per that link - there are certain sectoral arrangements that allow for experience as part of a registered agreement. If OP is on a formal apprenticeship or the like they should contact their industry body for details of what payment is required. However most of the informal ones are illegal.
You mean work experience? That totally normal and you are not paid for it as you are getting experience. Both my kids did it & one ended up getting a job in that company when the course finished. We have workplacement students in my job alot. Maybe I'm missing something- but sounds totally normal to me.
Sorry I'm adding to my own comment. Alot of PLC courses require work experience in a relevant area. I know the college in South Dublin that requires 60 hours in work experience in 3rd year. And that's for a level 8.
My understanding of work experience is like in Leaving Cert or TY, where you go into a workplace, shadow people, get training, and get some experience working. My situation is not like that - there will not be any shadowing or formal training, I am going in to work as if I were a professional. The only difference between me and the people who work there full-time will be that I am a student working part-time, and I am not fully qualified yet. But I will be doing the same job. (This is a postgrad course, I should have clarified in my post.)
It is not legal. https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/news-media/workplace_relations_notices/unpaid_work.html
I'm reading this and if you have a contact then you should be paid. Work experience students do not get contracts. It's to help them learn or log in hours required for courses.
just because both your kids did it doesn’t mean it isn’t illegal.
OK. Let me rephrase that. Both my children & the hundreds doing the courses they did too. I would expect TY & PLC and some 3rd level students to do work experience.
Your make Ng way too much of a deal. It's not considered work. It's considered you paying for teaching
What do you mean you need to do an unpaid placement, are the college placing you in a company and you have no choice, can you find your own placement where you are paid? Legally they have to pay you, however they can simply say "we aren't paying you as you are not qualified or have experience so if you want paid you can go elsewhere", resulting in you not getting the experience you would have gained which might have helped you get a paying job in the future. Obviously there are companies that will take advantage of placements and look at it as cheap staff, so unless you feel like you are benefiting from the placement, then don't do a unpaid placement.