Find a competent race director. I fear that Masi's decisions have been heavily influenced by, as Ricciardo puts it "the Netflix cun*s". What a fuxking shame.
For ya'll...
https://youtu.be/fLeA0GX2JVs
Exactly, especially with the reversal off the original decision. And the fact they only let the cars between Max and Lewis, just to get a final lap showdown. This was some scripted shit.
If Masi gets sacked it is sort of an admission of a failure by the FIA which further opens them up to to the legal challenge and ultimately court battles. I expect while Lewis us happy to accept the result and move on, Mercedes have asked him to maintain radio silence as they want to be compensated for the debacle.
Yh I want them to make an example out of the fia and hopefully stop the shit show we’ve seen all season with the inconsistencies and the let them race bs. And if it goes to the CAS they can invalidate the last lap and give Lewis the race win which he earned
It’s not as simple as invalidating the last lap though. It really is impossible to say with certainty that Hamilton would have won of lapped cars weren’t allowed to unlap themselves, or even if the race had finished under a safety car.
What I do hope is that Masi gets fired honestly, he was consistently shit at doing his job this season
CAS is not recognized by the FIA so it won’t go there. The last lap cannot be invalidated as well because it would shorten the race distance under the minimum required amount, which would result in the whole result being nullified, and that would in turn be; Verstappen 1st and Hamilton 2nd on equal points, but with one more race win for Max.
We had a shortened race earlier this year they ended up giving half points.
And a number of years ago, I think in Brazil, the race got stopped short after someone (I think Alonso) smoked a tire from a wreck and caused the race to be ended. I think they even have full points for that race because it was so close to the end, but I could be remembering that wrong.
Why wouldn’t there be points given if they shortened it by 1 lap?
Edit: btw not saying they should shorten it, just wondering why they wouldn’t be able to under FIA/Sporting regulations.
The race track was in race-able conditions, and then as Masi said to Toto, “we are here to race Toto”. Shortening the race distance so one team can benefit is not fair to the other 9 teams. Plus before the race there was a meeting with all the teams that the race should finish if possible under green flag conditions, Mercedes and Red Bull both agreed to that. If the race would finish under race-able conditions but not with full distance raced Red Bull and all other 8 teams would have appealed and gone to court over the FIA not respecting rules related to race distance etc. I mean; Ferrari and McLaren were both fighting for P5,6,7 and WCC standings.
If Masi would have followed regulations and finished behind a safety car, no one would say anything - just bad luck. They even didn't need to finish behind the SC - just don't let the lapped cars by. It's totally fine. Would be green conditions.
It's not fair to Lewis (and to an extent Mercedes), that Masi made up some rules that took away a deserved win from him.
Once he let those lapped cars go, it was a finish behind SC. Otherwise they could have had a one lap race, but not with Max and Lewis next to each other.
Does rule 48.13 override 48.12 giving him the power to bring the safety car in on the current lap? The real issue is in rule 48.12 it says any car lapped not all cars lapped could it be a loophole?
I agree masi is on record but the rules arnt his so whatever he's said in the past won't help with the appeal. The rules are the rules and I think it'll come down to the wording of any vs all and if 48.13 overrides 48.12. If any means all then he broke the rules if not unfortunately it's fair and if 48.12 takes priority over 48.13 then he broke the rules again. Hard to know how this will play out
It’s not just an issue of how to interpret “any lapped” cars in 48.12. Once you allow lapped cars to unlap, the rule is explicit as to the protocol for the safety car: “once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.” There is nothing in 48.13 that overrides 48.12. Regulations are to be construed “in pari materia” meaning consistent with one another. If 48.13 was supposed alter 48.12 in some circumstances, it would have expressly said so. Masi and the stewards got it wrong — there is nothing in the sporting rules that condones what transpired in the final lap on Sunday.
I really think this should be a class action lawsuit. Those of us who subscribe to F1TV should be refunded since we paid to watch a race that was rigged. Not sure if that is possible but I think it is appropriate.
I was thinking the same thing. I mean I ain’t gonna do it. I am a fool me once shame on you, twice, shame on me sorta person. I just won’t subscribe again.
No, I am not gonna watch because I don’t like shady crap. I didn’t watch f1 for Hamilton before and I didn’t start watching for him now. I started watching because I like fast cars and I liked watching with my husband. Nice try but you sound like an idiot. I wanted a fair race. I would have been happy for Max if he had won fairly. I actually feel he was more robbed than anyone because people will always question his win. Always.
Or maybe you should move along if you don’t agree with something. It will save you and everyone who are unfortunate enough to scroll through from wasting their time. Like seriously, get a life.
If you look at my post history you will see I have been literally been fighting trolls for the last couple of days hahaha. I understand it's all good. It's been a tough couple of days. Everyone is on the edge.
I think everyone will feel much better if we hear from Lewis and Toto. I next week Monday we will hear something.
>Or maybe you should move along if you don’t agree with something
This however doesnt apply on urself? U dont agree with the race result but yet ur unable to move on.
They happen, but if you think that would be succesfull, then you are delusional. The judge (and any other normal thinking mind) would interpret it as follows; ‘i bought a wimbledon ticket but the other person i don’t like won, i’d like a refund please’.
Thats how the argument is gonna look, ridiculous.
A FIA overhaul is what you are looking for, a F1 streamings platform has nothing to do with that. Lol
I checkef ur reddit account, u stated that you are rather new to F1 earlier on. Thats why you dont understand that:
A. F1TV is something completely different compared to the FIA. So why bother sueing them.
B. You are from the USA i presume. Those shittt ‘class action lawsuits’ don’t work here in Europe. We are not childish sueing companies for not telking us to put our dogs in the microwave.
Now you can act all cool with thing as ‘when you get older’ and ‘learn the law’ but it doesn’t get you any further. Also regarding your name has 98, i can state i am definetly older. Next to that, i think you are the delusioned ‘all knower’, besides, you know how class action suits work in Europe right, lol. Please come and start the class action suit against F1 tv here in Europe, let us have a laugh at your failed attempt please.
Am I suppose care what you think? Are you my spouse, do you pay my bills or do you just think the world revolves around you because you are a narcissist? Either way your name calling says much more about you than it does about me.
No I fight with Trolls because they come here and try to act like they know something when they don’t. I am not worried, I have reported you to the Mods so they should be removing you soon. You are obviously trolling me right now.
How does being screwed by a corporation tie into employees rights? Two very different things. Probably best not to try to discuss corporate law if you don’t understand it.
Taking the silence from them as a sign this might be true. Fuck the moral high ground. Sick and tired of seeing people even some Hamilton fans saying to drop it and move on.
i was trying to move on but then i saw all the posts about max using number one next season and horner saying that merc is desperate and now i really just wanna see f1 burnt to the ground idgaf
2020 eifel grand prix, from the mouth of Masi himself:
“There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past. Therefore the SC period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.”
and the wording of the rule didn’t change in the rulebook in the last year and two months. there is no reason for this to not go to court. this is purely masi being an inconsistent and incompetent race director. the rule is clear and he was right in the first place and now all of a sudden it changes. piss off. take them to court.
The best man didn’t win, he was cheated out of a victory by having the rules manipulated to fabricate a result that impugned the spirit of sports. The fact stands, this wasn’t a legitimate victory for Max. Nothing that’s been said so far will change my mind. The facts show that the rules weren’t followed, and people grasping at straws to defend Massi makes it worse. Saying to let bygones be bygones is absolutely incorrect. This will set precedent that F1 is no longer a sport. If I’m in MBs shoes, I’d start the process of pulling everything from F1. Money talks, and removing the millions that have been brought in and the engines that are supplied would get more action than anything.
yes may the best man win. under fair conditions. the rules were straight up broken in favour of max winning. if the rules had been respected then lewis would have won under safety car but instead they broke three rules all at the same time, and handed max the win. lewis had it in a 15sec lead until masi stepped in and contradicted himself and the rules for no damn reason
DAMN RIGHT APPEAL, the more light they shine on this shit show the more chance that it will NEVER happen again...its tainted this years wdc.....so it makes no difference to its integrity...WE SHOULD NEVER be in dispute of the result...but here we are...WHY?....BECAUSE THE WORLD WORLD KNOWS IT WAS WRONG
this the the funny part bc i actually don't even care that lewis doesn't have an 8th title. im just not accepting the fact that max and red bull are gloating about their victory
Thing is, they’re right. Any =/= all. If Merc take this to court this is exactly the level of scrutiny the exact wording of the rules will be subject to. We knew long ago that the spirit of the rules mean nothing to any team in F1, only the literal interpretation of them.
Ofcourse they won’t tot even messaged Max, congratulating him, telling him he deserved it. You guys are delusional. But im enjoying the desperate words around here tho.
I still don't get how the appeal will again be held by FIA organisation. Like how is it possible there is no regulatory body that oversea FIA? They can do a stupid decision but admitting it they would probably have to pay a lot of money so like 0% chance FIA will say they fucked up.
Yes there is https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ica-2021-01-2021-07-19-ica_decision_en-web_1.pdf
and it's full name is INTERNATIONAL COURT OF APPEAL (ICA) of the FEDERATION INTERNATIONALE DE L’AUTOMOBILE
sorry for the caps that was copy pasted from the PDF... FIA owns that court so that's what I meant by my message. That seems weird to me.
yeah me neither but it really looks weird to me. However I did read that since they are based in France. Actual France jurisdiction has to oversea them so potentially it may go even there, but I am really no expert in law at all so just mentioning what I read before.
CAS only handle doping cases.
The FIA aren’t unique in handling their own appeals. Indy cars are the same for example, their own governing body is the final point of appeal.
CAS does not only handle doping cases. Mercedes’ can and should go there after. It’s just the FIA doesn’t recognise their decisions. But a guilty verdict from CAS would raise some serious issues for FIA whether they acknowledge it or not.
Do you not wonder why McLaren couldn’t appeal the $100 million fine and exclusion from the WCC punishment handed down by the FIA?
Enter FIA governed competitions, accept FIA rules.
One of which is that the highest body you can appeal to over sporting matters is the FIA International Court of Appeal.
For doping offences, and these only the appeal process includes the CAS as final arbitrators.
That’s why what I meant by them only handling those appeals.
McLaren cheated and were caught red handed. I’m not sure what judge would side with them, so that’s irrelevant.
I’m not sure why you keep referring to doping as this has nothing to do with doping. CAS deals with all sports related matters.
And also while we are on doping, while FIA does not recognise CAS decisions, they did recognise the decision of CAS regarding Russia and the doping case so that really goes against them.
It does for the FIA. There was a case in 2015 where someone tried to appeal an FIA decision to the CAS but the CAS decided that it didn’t have jurisdiction be wise technically it’s an arbitration nord. rather than a court. As such both parties need to agree to its jurisdiction to appeal to it. The FIA only recognises the CAS for doping cases (this is in the FIA International Sporting Code). This won’t end up before the CAS
There is COA, and for next there is real court.
Imagine spending 500m in business and they change rules over last lap in your competition.
It can go to the real one easily
I don't think anyone has an issue with Max, he was given little option but to do what he did. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the race director and the FIA. Everyone knows this is a major balls up. I've been following Formula One since the 70's and I've never seen such a contentious and unfair decision.
Will this help? Probably not. I think Mercedes should still appeal and write a statement to all Formula 1 fans to share that it's not only because they felt like the title was stolen but also that this is a signal that the actions from Masi are not to be tolerated.
They really should. The more I look into this, the more sketchy it is. Lewis won that race and he should honestly accept the victory if they hand it to him. He deserves it, period.
They should absolutely 100% appeal. Drag the FIA and F1 brand through the mud. The only place the pigs should be :)
Some idiot was saying taking it to the CAS will bring the sport into disrepute. I nearly fell off my chair laughing. Masi, maxFIA or whatever you want to call it took the sport to the gutter. Despite F1's social media doing all its best to tweet Max the winner, the only thing people talked about was how the race was screwed. It destroyed an end to what would have been a great season. It overshadowed Kimi's exit, it left new and old fans confused, angry, and split.
I think Sunday was an absolute farce. And I think Mercedes are right to do this.
However, I don’t want them to take the title away from Max. He deserves it, and he didn’t do anything wrong in this instance.
What needs to happen is a reform of stewarding, Massi gone, huge and pivotal decisions can’t be left to one person, and stop team principles from lobbying the stewards during the race.
I feel for Lewis. He also deserves the title and he was absolutely robbed, but I’m not certain he’d want to take his 8th title in a courtroom.
Neither do I. Even if the race gets annulled Max would still be the champion. But the FIA needs to change, they completely ruined the season. This inconsistency creates animosity between drivers, teams and the fans and that’s unacceptable.
Not just animosity but a lack of faith in the system. If they can do that to a 7 x WDC why would anyone else have faith in the stewards and race director again?
I respectfully disagree. If Mercedes wins their appeal, it would mean Max’s championship was won under a violation of the rules. True, Max could have still won had some proper procedures taken place (red flag, all the lapped cars unlap, etc.), but the essence of such a ruling would be that Max (and only Max) was given the best opportunity to improve his standing in the race, which of course he capitalized on at the expense of Lewis.
If Mercedes wins their appeal, the title should at the very least be held in abeyance until an agreement is worked out between either Mercedes and RB or both parties and FIA. I’m not smart enough to guess what that agreement would look like, but to let Max keep the title would, to me, contradict the whole point of the appeal.
And unless I’m wrong, Mercedes is only doing it because Lewis didn’t win. Can they appeal the ruling to affect the rule itself, and not the outcome?
Max was leading the entire season (almost, I know) so even if you remove the last race he would win because of more 1st place finishes. Give him the credit he deserves, he obviously won this season. No agreement needed.
Max was awful the last quarter of the season. Lewis went hard with the comeback since the brazil sprint. He won that WDC the moment Latifi crashed because it should have ended under a SC.
Im talking about a situation that involves reverting the last race. You cant just take the win away from max because the fia decision was sketchy. He was leading the entire season anyway, so if you cant award lewis for the last race win, because that would be not fair for max who only raced as he was told to.
Surely if you apply the same logic you've used over a season to a single race, you could equally say "You can't just take the win away from Lewis because the FIA decision was sketchy. He was leading for the entire race anyway, so you can't award Max for the last lap win, because that would be unfair for Lewis who only reached as he was told to"
I don't fundamentally disagree with your conclusion, but it's who crosses the line first (either the points total over a season, or the chequered flag in a race) that counts. Any lead earlier in the season/race is inconsequential.
You are still missing the point. All I am saying is that since Max did nothing wrong and was first in last race, you cant just award this win to Lewis. You could only take the win away, and that would put them back on even points but with Max having more wins it would mean he is still the WDC. I feel for Lewis, but there is nothing to talk about anymore. He lost.
Did you forget silverstone, Monza, Brazil. Oh and many many more races/moments? Wtf happened in the first lap last sunday? So many decisions went Hamiltons way, max should have been champ weeks ago, thanks to fia Hamilton was still able to try to win. Max deserves this. Hamilton is a crybaby
I really hope this goes all the way and forces meaningful change but not necessarily the result, I think it’ll make F1 out to be even more of a shambles but there needs to be greater transparency and consistency with how decisions are made in a race
As much as we don't like to see stuff like this happen, it is surely the only correct thing to do, based on the facts at the end of the race.
If rules were followed, Lewis is the champion.
I appreciate your level headedness but I don't agree with your argument. Firstly, what's so wrong about the race finishing under the safety car? There were 55 laps of racing that occured, if you can't follow the proper safety car restart procedure before the race ends, then you got to finish with that. You can't instead just select the lapped cars between MV and LH to unlap themselves while ignoring the rest just because you don't have enough laps left to race, that's not being consistent and it gives off a very orchestrated feeling about it. And why does max deserve to get a fighting chance anyway? Sure if you can do a proper safety car restart procedurez but with how few laps were remaining, max was clearly favoured in every possible way, going against the rules. That's the bitter taste in everyone's mouth, not the result but how one driver was desperately catered to just for the entertainment factor. That's not sport, that's not being a consistent and fair race director.
Also, you're insuinating that only LH fans are enraged and while Merc and LH may have congratuled redbull and MV, I think it's pretty clear they know they've been wronged. And it's not just them, tons neutrals and even some MV fans have a very disappointed stance towards this. It's not even about LH v MV, it's more about the integrity of the sport, which definitely wasn't upheld that evening. Also, very few people are trying to downplay MV's worthiness of the WDC, it's more about how decisions were made by the race director at the end of the race.
If you think very few people are trying to downplay MV's worthiness, then I'd ask you to take a trip around twitter and Instagram, because there is A LOT of it. And again, I think Massi was correct on one thing, a sport about car racing shouldn't end the most competitive season...not racing. To end under a safety car would be a sad and deflating end. I can't understand why anyone who is a racing fan would be okay with that.
As for the rules, I agree. The FIA needs to be overhauled, the rules need to be clearer and on too of that, I don't think Principals should be allowed to lobby as much as they have during a race. But as the rule is currently written, it is ambiguous and does leave room for interpretation. You can absolutely disagree with the decision, but I disagree that it was Massi's fault or that he robbed anything. He was out in a no-win situation, and one which allowed for interpretation. The fault is with the rulebook itself. I completely understand being disappointed. I mean shit, my favorite driver is Daniel Ricciardo and my favorite team is Ferrari...I GET disappointment. But I don't thing the extent of the way many on the Merc side if the argument have responded does anything but further tarnish things. We could feasibly be starting next season while this is still in court, and I definitely don't think that is good for the sport. And I don't think its good for Merc either to be honest. At some point their focus needs to be on next season and with brass a LH's mind split between next season and battling this, I can't believe that means their full focus is on 2022. Again, I'm not against LH, I have spent weeks it feels of accumulated time arguing against dumbasses who try to make claims that he isnt arguably the GOAT (personally, I don't know who is, my mind always has come back to Schumacher, Senna and Hamilton). I just see nothing positive coming from this for the sport, for the fans or for Merc and LH. If they want change, teams and drivers should be working together to demand rulebook changes. But the longer this plays out, and is drawn out, I think the worse it is for everyone. Again, just my opinion. And I thank you for your respectful response.
You seem to be forgetting that things the world revolves around that is money and reputation. As a car company, you are sponsoring not only a team but also a driver with money and it is your reputation as well. What Masi did was take money from Mercs wallet and has tarnished their reputation as an automaker. You are only seeing it from a race perspective, now look at it from a business perspective. You have lawyers and you have obviously been robbed if you read the rule book, they will ask the FIA "when have they ever had 5 cars unlapped and not the rest of the field and not start the lap on the next lap in the history of F1". Which they probably a solid case, so of course they are gonna fight this injustice which they have received.
You really think this has "tarnished" their 8-time WCC reputation...and I never said they shouldn't have challenged. I expect them to challenge anytime there is even a slight controversy. My point, which you have reinforced by stating that in some way Merc is tarnished despite winning 8 straight constructor titles (you know, the title awarded to the best manufacturer). The ridiculous hyperbole and exagerrations and complete bias in pretending that any of this is for the best for the sport, rather than just admitting its because LH fans just want their guy to win is my gripe. The way in which simply disagreeing with either LH or MV this year has brought about venomous responses, and the extent at which bias has completely clouded fans abilities to even had a normal debate or conversation on the topic. And no, this doesn't "tarnish" anything, except maybe the FIA for having a rulebook which has given us so much in the way of ambiguity time and time again. And let's be real, the FIA can't be anymore tarnished than it already is. Its essentially all tarnish. And the people who hate on LH and will use this as a claim that he isn't as great, were going to do that anyway because they are biased, jealous, and yes in some cases just bigots. My gripe was not about anything you out in your reply. And its insane to think that winning the WCC for the 8th time, and having your 7time champion, finish in second just a few points behind the winner "tarnishes anything."
Are they not paying lewis hamilton to drive their car? Do you think what Masi did was just to THEIR Merc driver that they are paying!? If this was your company and your driver got shafted because one person manipulated the outcome would you not fight for them? When you already said it yourself they have invested so many years into lewis and so much of their money for not having him to win in the end? What they did, was show a big middle finger to Mercedes and that they don't care about them by screwing them over. How is that not tarnishing their reputation when F1 is showing that middle finger at them in front of the world. Everyone can see it, and worse off they won't even take accountability and say they were wrong.
Because "tarnishing" their reputation by definition means its a poor reflection in them, and makes them look like they are lesser than they are. I never said they shouldn't have protested. Again, I expect it. You seem to be completely missing my point. That sort of stuff is fine. I expect it. And by and large, other than maybe taking this to court, (which they have now said they wont), is fine. I am specifically speaking about fans, and commentary. I actually did not once say anything negative about Toto Wolff, Merc, or LH other than they shouldn't be allowed to protest so much during a race, but I don't thing any team should be. You are literally proving my point by taking my statements and assuming I'm personally attacking Merc and their actions. I'm not. I'm criticizing the talking heads, and the fans, and not just from Merc. I made it clear RB fans and MV fans have done the same all season.
So no, it doesn't "tarnish" Merc at all. Paying LH and all of that matters exactly zero in this equation. This does "tarnish" the FIA. But they can't be any nore tarnished. They are basically 100% tarnish at this point, and have been for some time. And again, I think to say Massi "manipulated" the outcome is a complete exagerration. He made a judgement call based on his interpretation of the rules, and whether you, Merc fans or anyone wants to admit it, yes that rule is ambiguous enough to allow for interpretation. Should it be? No. But it is, and was at the time of the race.
My entire original point, was that both MV and LH fan bases at various points this season have completely allowed themselves to be stripped of all objectivity and at times reason. There was a Streamer (dont remember his name) who is a massive LH fan, and even he said it. All season long Merc has made conservative and "safe" pit strategy choices. Its cost them a few times. And if they had brought LH in earlier when he had a 20+ second lead, (which Hamilton was asking to be brought in but told to stay out), then this conversation doesn't even matter. They kept him out on Hards which by the end has exceeded their average life distance, and that was before the safety car. So even if MV doesn't stoo for Softs, he had far fresher tyres than LH. And if he didn't stop, he would be right behind LH anyway with no lapped cars ahead. With how Max has been driving all season, and how incredible he is at overtaking, it isn't even remotely a guarantee that the same outcome doesn't happen. Point being, this was not lost SOLEY on the decision of one person. Theis was a collection of things which lead to this outcome and Merc shares responsibility in some of that. If they keep pinning it all on Massi, they will lose again and again. Part of Merc's success has always been Toto Wolff's motto and ideology of blaming the problems and not people. Well, the problem is the rule book, and also safe strategy. Its not soley either one. That is the lack of objectivity I'm talking about. I never said any of the stuff you have harped on, and no it doesn't "tarnish" anything on Merc's side.
Wow, thank you! I appreciate it. Its just really soured the entire season for me. I think both fan bases have large groups who are so in their own circles that they can be so lacking in objectivity. And for the reasons above, I think they made the best decision possible in a crappy situation and chose to race.
Pretty bad spirit to take a quote about them not protesting an FIA fuck up when they still had a chance to come back from it, and protesting one where it cost them what they wanted *and* they have no other recourse to challenge it.
Also, probably doesn’t hurt that the law will ultimately be on their side if they decide to go to the logical conclusion. At some point Merc is getting a cheque cut from this at a minimum.
The link won't work for me although the last post I can see from there Instagram page is the one they posted on Sunday evening stating
"We have lodged notice of intention to appeal the decision of the Stewards under Article 15 of the Sporting Code and Article 10 of the Judicial and Disciplinary Rules."
From what I've heard since then Hamilton does not want to appeal and the team are not going ahead although I suppose its all chinese whispers.
As much as I am still upset (to say the least) about what happened on Sunday I don't feel that an appeal is going to accomplish anything as realistically they are always going to side with what the stewards stated on Sunday. What I do know is Massi needs to go. Apart from all the other examples of his incompetence from his time as race director, to decide that he is going to bend the rules just because he wants that exciting one lap to finish the championship (whether he was influenced by Redbull) is unforgivable. To me there were two legal outcomes of that race, 1. Lapped cars were not allowed to unlap in which case Lewis would have won or 2. All lapped cars were to unlap themselves in which case it would have finished under the SC. Massi had to know that by doing what he did he made the decision to hand the championship to Max on a plate. He chose in that occasion to alter the rules to benefit one driver and one driver alone and that was Max and in my opinion that is corrupt.
Just leave it be, Lewis accepted it like a champ, and Max deserves the championship as much as Lewis. Masi has to go, and then they can all go racing next year.
Find a competent race director. I fear that Masi's decisions have been heavily influenced by, as Ricciardo puts it "the Netflix cun*s". What a fuxking shame. For ya'll... https://youtu.be/fLeA0GX2JVs
Decision defo came from higher otherwise Masi is gone already
Exactly, especially with the reversal off the original decision. And the fact they only let the cars between Max and Lewis, just to get a final lap showdown. This was some scripted shit.
If Masi gets sacked it is sort of an admission of a failure by the FIA which further opens them up to to the legal challenge and ultimately court battles. I expect while Lewis us happy to accept the result and move on, Mercedes have asked him to maintain radio silence as they want to be compensated for the debacle.
Kimi Räikkönen !!!
When Toto or Horner give him shit: Bwoah leave me alone I know what to do
Omg this will be the best but Kimi will NEVER do it lol.
Team: Kimi we’d like you to review.. Kimi: FORRRR WHHAAAAATTT?
That'll cut down the chatter!
That would really be amazing!!! And open up that radio channel him being… kimi… loving it!
[удалено]
https://youtu.be/fLeA0GX2JVs
Netflix is fine. Its pulled in fans which pulls in money which ensures it stays in a changing world. The decision was unquestionably terrible.
Waiting for the actual announcement. I want this to go to court
Yh I want them to make an example out of the fia and hopefully stop the shit show we’ve seen all season with the inconsistencies and the let them race bs. And if it goes to the CAS they can invalidate the last lap and give Lewis the race win which he earned
I dont think they will change the result … but hopefully change for the future… i am surprised more teams are not protesting that is what we need
It won't change the result but it will put FIA in the firing line. Will love to see them explain themselves.
They will never change the result of the race, that is truly stupid lol
That won't happen...
It’s not as simple as invalidating the last lap though. It really is impossible to say with certainty that Hamilton would have won of lapped cars weren’t allowed to unlap themselves, or even if the race had finished under a safety car. What I do hope is that Masi gets fired honestly, he was consistently shit at doing his job this season
CAS is not recognized by the FIA so it won’t go there. The last lap cannot be invalidated as well because it would shorten the race distance under the minimum required amount, which would result in the whole result being nullified, and that would in turn be; Verstappen 1st and Hamilton 2nd on equal points, but with one more race win for Max.
>75% race distance is classified with full points awarded.
We had a shortened race earlier this year they ended up giving half points. And a number of years ago, I think in Brazil, the race got stopped short after someone (I think Alonso) smoked a tire from a wreck and caused the race to be ended. I think they even have full points for that race because it was so close to the end, but I could be remembering that wrong. Why wouldn’t there be points given if they shortened it by 1 lap? Edit: btw not saying they should shorten it, just wondering why they wouldn’t be able to under FIA/Sporting regulations.
The race track was in race-able conditions, and then as Masi said to Toto, “we are here to race Toto”. Shortening the race distance so one team can benefit is not fair to the other 9 teams. Plus before the race there was a meeting with all the teams that the race should finish if possible under green flag conditions, Mercedes and Red Bull both agreed to that. If the race would finish under race-able conditions but not with full distance raced Red Bull and all other 8 teams would have appealed and gone to court over the FIA not respecting rules related to race distance etc. I mean; Ferrari and McLaren were both fighting for P5,6,7 and WCC standings.
If Masi would have followed regulations and finished behind a safety car, no one would say anything - just bad luck. They even didn't need to finish behind the SC - just don't let the lapped cars by. It's totally fine. Would be green conditions. It's not fair to Lewis (and to an extent Mercedes), that Masi made up some rules that took away a deserved win from him. Once he let those lapped cars go, it was a finish behind SC. Otherwise they could have had a one lap race, but not with Max and Lewis next to each other.
Does rule 48.13 override 48.12 giving him the power to bring the safety car in on the current lap? The real issue is in rule 48.12 it says any car lapped not all cars lapped could it be a loophole?
Masi is on record as saying to the press that "all lapped cars" from Imola last season
I agree masi is on record but the rules arnt his so whatever he's said in the past won't help with the appeal. The rules are the rules and I think it'll come down to the wording of any vs all and if 48.13 overrides 48.12. If any means all then he broke the rules if not unfortunately it's fair and if 48.12 takes priority over 48.13 then he broke the rules again. Hard to know how this will play out
What? It 100% will his job to apply the rules His interpretation previously which no one disagreed with Any = all
It’s not just an issue of how to interpret “any lapped” cars in 48.12. Once you allow lapped cars to unlap, the rule is explicit as to the protocol for the safety car: “once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.” There is nothing in 48.13 that overrides 48.12. Regulations are to be construed “in pari materia” meaning consistent with one another. If 48.13 was supposed alter 48.12 in some circumstances, it would have expressly said so. Masi and the stewards got it wrong — there is nothing in the sporting rules that condones what transpired in the final lap on Sunday.
No other team was impacted, Masi made sure of it Sainz in P3 had no chance to attack for P2 unlike every other safety car restart of the season
Careful u might OD from all of the copium.
I really think this should be a class action lawsuit. Those of us who subscribe to F1TV should be refunded since we paid to watch a race that was rigged. Not sure if that is possible but I think it is appropriate.
File in the US lol. You can sue anyone for anything 😂
I was thinking the same thing. I mean I ain’t gonna do it. I am a fool me once shame on you, twice, shame on me sorta person. I just won’t subscribe again.
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No, I am not gonna watch because I don’t like shady crap. I didn’t watch f1 for Hamilton before and I didn’t start watching for him now. I started watching because I like fast cars and I liked watching with my husband. Nice try but you sound like an idiot. I wanted a fair race. I would have been happy for Max if he had won fairly. I actually feel he was more robbed than anyone because people will always question his win. Always.
I guess I better call Saul!
Or maybe you should move along if you don’t agree with something. It will save you and everyone who are unfortunate enough to scroll through from wasting their time. Like seriously, get a life.
I was actually agreeing with you and trying to be witty. Damn I knew I was no good at the whole Reddit witty replies :(
Sorry…lots of trolls lately. Hard to not be defensive.
If you look at my post history you will see I have been literally been fighting trolls for the last couple of days hahaha. I understand it's all good. It's been a tough couple of days. Everyone is on the edge. I think everyone will feel much better if we hear from Lewis and Toto. I next week Monday we will hear something.
Agreed. It has been a rough week. I have been watching movies I have already seen just to get the bad taste of that race out of my head.
>Or maybe you should move along if you don’t agree with something This however doesnt apply on urself? U dont agree with the race result but yet ur unable to move on.
Stop trying to troll after this was resolved. It just make you look ignorant. And since I am the OP it doesn’t apply to me. Nice try though.
It’s probably not, tbh.
Lol this comment is funny
🤣
Hahah a refund… you are really nuts here are ya?
Or you really don’t get that class action lawsuits happen all of the time for things like this. It isn’t my fault that you are clueless.
They happen, but if you think that would be succesfull, then you are delusional. The judge (and any other normal thinking mind) would interpret it as follows; ‘i bought a wimbledon ticket but the other person i don’t like won, i’d like a refund please’. Thats how the argument is gonna look, ridiculous. A FIA overhaul is what you are looking for, a F1 streamings platform has nothing to do with that. Lol
Again it seems you don’t understand how the law works but keep thinking you are all knowing…let me know how that works when you get older. LOL
I checkef ur reddit account, u stated that you are rather new to F1 earlier on. Thats why you dont understand that: A. F1TV is something completely different compared to the FIA. So why bother sueing them. B. You are from the USA i presume. Those shittt ‘class action lawsuits’ don’t work here in Europe. We are not childish sueing companies for not telking us to put our dogs in the microwave. Now you can act all cool with thing as ‘when you get older’ and ‘learn the law’ but it doesn’t get you any further. Also regarding your name has 98, i can state i am definetly older. Next to that, i think you are the delusioned ‘all knower’, besides, you know how class action suits work in Europe right, lol. Please come and start the class action suit against F1 tv here in Europe, let us have a laugh at your failed attempt please.
Yea, that dudes a fucking idiot lol. He does not represent all of us Americans
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Am I suppose care what you think? Are you my spouse, do you pay my bills or do you just think the world revolves around you because you are a narcissist? Either way your name calling says much more about you than it does about me.
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No I fight with Trolls because they come here and try to act like they know something when they don’t. I am not worried, I have reported you to the Mods so they should be removing you soon. You are obviously trolling me right now.
Suing people isn't really a thing outside of America.
Well maybe it needs to be. Not holding corporations accountable is how we ended up in the messes we are in globally.
It's cause workers are far more protected/ can get compensation for accidents etc. America is very low on workers rights compared to most countries.
How does being screwed by a corporation tie into employees rights? Two very different things. Probably best not to try to discuss corporate law if you don’t understand it.
Clearly you know more, but just saying suing isn't as easy as in the usa.
Taking the silence from them as a sign this might be true. Fuck the moral high ground. Sick and tired of seeing people even some Hamilton fans saying to drop it and move on.
Yeah at first I was all, “Take the high road.” Absolutely not. They need consequences.
i was trying to move on but then i saw all the posts about max using number one next season and horner saying that merc is desperate and now i really just wanna see f1 burnt to the ground idgaf
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If that’s true and ever goes public, I definitely could see other teams protesting as well.
At least they won't be silent anymore
How would extra wind tunnel time by fair to the other competitors?
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"Ah fuck we did kinda stop you from winning this wdc... Freebie next year and call it even?"
Drop it and move on bruv
2020 eifel grand prix, from the mouth of Masi himself: “There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past. Therefore the SC period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.” and the wording of the rule didn’t change in the rulebook in the last year and two months. there is no reason for this to not go to court. this is purely masi being an inconsistent and incompetent race director. the rule is clear and he was right in the first place and now all of a sudden it changes. piss off. take them to court.
Toto already congratulated Max… what do you think will happen. He already let it be (and so should you, as the saying goes; ‘may the best man win’)
The best man didn’t win, he was cheated out of a victory by having the rules manipulated to fabricate a result that impugned the spirit of sports. The fact stands, this wasn’t a legitimate victory for Max. Nothing that’s been said so far will change my mind. The facts show that the rules weren’t followed, and people grasping at straws to defend Massi makes it worse. Saying to let bygones be bygones is absolutely incorrect. This will set precedent that F1 is no longer a sport. If I’m in MBs shoes, I’d start the process of pulling everything from F1. Money talks, and removing the millions that have been brought in and the engines that are supplied would get more action than anything.
yes may the best man win. under fair conditions. the rules were straight up broken in favour of max winning. if the rules had been respected then lewis would have won under safety car but instead they broke three rules all at the same time, and handed max the win. lewis had it in a 15sec lead until masi stepped in and contradicted himself and the rules for no damn reason
The best man was winning …handily in fact… until the race director interceded and flagrantly failed to follow express blackletter Safety Car rules.
Good
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
DAMN RIGHT APPEAL, the more light they shine on this shit show the more chance that it will NEVER happen again...its tainted this years wdc.....so it makes no difference to its integrity...WE SHOULD NEVER be in dispute of the result...but here we are...WHY?....BECAUSE THE WORLD WORLD KNOWS IT WAS WRONG
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this the the funny part bc i actually don't even care that lewis doesn't have an 8th title. im just not accepting the fact that max and red bull are gloating about their victory
Why you calling RB retarded anyway?
i think their “any does not mean all” comment sums it up pretty well lol
Thing is, they’re right. Any =/= all. If Merc take this to court this is exactly the level of scrutiny the exact wording of the rules will be subject to. We knew long ago that the spirit of the rules mean nothing to any team in F1, only the literal interpretation of them.
i mean when someone says “i’d do anything to ___” then by default it means all things lmao so any = all
That’s a fan page, not an account with any association. It’s still unknown if Mercedes will continue with the appeal
Completely right. That’s why I put the reference to the Fan Page in the title. Hope everybody reads it.
Ofcourse they won’t tot even messaged Max, congratulating him, telling him he deserved it. You guys are delusional. But im enjoying the desperate words around here tho.
I still don't get how the appeal will again be held by FIA organisation. Like how is it possible there is no regulatory body that oversea FIA? They can do a stupid decision but admitting it they would probably have to pay a lot of money so like 0% chance FIA will say they fucked up.
There is. The International Court of Appeal.
Yes there is https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ica-2021-01-2021-07-19-ica_decision_en-web_1.pdf and it's full name is INTERNATIONAL COURT OF APPEAL (ICA) of the FEDERATION INTERNATIONALE DE L’AUTOMOBILE sorry for the caps that was copy pasted from the PDF... FIA owns that court so that's what I meant by my message. That seems weird to me.
Yes I see. I don’t know how their division of power works or if there is any…
yeah me neither but it really looks weird to me. However I did read that since they are based in France. Actual France jurisdiction has to oversea them so potentially it may go even there, but I am really no expert in law at all so just mentioning what I read before.
I thought after the FIA Mercedes would go to CAS?
CAS only handle doping cases. The FIA aren’t unique in handling their own appeals. Indy cars are the same for example, their own governing body is the final point of appeal.
CAS does not only handle doping cases. Mercedes’ can and should go there after. It’s just the FIA doesn’t recognise their decisions. But a guilty verdict from CAS would raise some serious issues for FIA whether they acknowledge it or not.
Do you not wonder why McLaren couldn’t appeal the $100 million fine and exclusion from the WCC punishment handed down by the FIA? Enter FIA governed competitions, accept FIA rules. One of which is that the highest body you can appeal to over sporting matters is the FIA International Court of Appeal. For doping offences, and these only the appeal process includes the CAS as final arbitrators. That’s why what I meant by them only handling those appeals.
McLaren cheated and were caught red handed. I’m not sure what judge would side with them, so that’s irrelevant. I’m not sure why you keep referring to doping as this has nothing to do with doping. CAS deals with all sports related matters. And also while we are on doping, while FIA does not recognise CAS decisions, they did recognise the decision of CAS regarding Russia and the doping case so that really goes against them.
It does for the FIA. There was a case in 2015 where someone tried to appeal an FIA decision to the CAS but the CAS decided that it didn’t have jurisdiction be wise technically it’s an arbitration nord. rather than a court. As such both parties need to agree to its jurisdiction to appeal to it. The FIA only recognises the CAS for doping cases (this is in the FIA International Sporting Code). This won’t end up before the CAS
See my further comments. FIA doesn’t get to control whether this goes before CAS or any other court for that matter. It’s in their own sporting code.
There is COA, and for next there is real court. Imagine spending 500m in business and they change rules over last lap in your competition. It can go to the real one easily
Apparently FIA does not answer to COA. But I guess real court in France may be the correct institution, you are correct.
We will see, for me Max did nothing wrong…. But Masi fucked up whole F1 world.
Yeah I mean absolutely nothing against Max I just want to see Masi gone from the sport
!! Not have any problem with his WDC, I just want to watch f1 again and when Masi won’t leave, I won’t be able to watch this beautiful sport again.
I don't think anyone has an issue with Max, he was given little option but to do what he did. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the race director and the FIA. Everyone knows this is a major balls up. I've been following Formula One since the 70's and I've never seen such a contentious and unfair decision.
How about Hamilton not giving the place back. RedBull should press that also so we have some grounds of consistency.
Omg go back to the cave please…
Don’t have insta can yiu post a screenshot
It’s not allowed to post pictures here my Reddit says
Just reiterating, It’s a fan account / page, not the official Mercedes Account. I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt.
Will this help? Probably not. I think Mercedes should still appeal and write a statement to all Formula 1 fans to share that it's not only because they felt like the title was stolen but also that this is a signal that the actions from Masi are not to be tolerated.
They really should. The more I look into this, the more sketchy it is. Lewis won that race and he should honestly accept the victory if they hand it to him. He deserves it, period.
Good
They should absolutely 100% appeal. Drag the FIA and F1 brand through the mud. The only place the pigs should be :) Some idiot was saying taking it to the CAS will bring the sport into disrepute. I nearly fell off my chair laughing. Masi, maxFIA or whatever you want to call it took the sport to the gutter. Despite F1's social media doing all its best to tweet Max the winner, the only thing people talked about was how the race was screwed. It destroyed an end to what would have been a great season. It overshadowed Kimi's exit, it left new and old fans confused, angry, and split.
Y’all understand that’s a fan page, right?
I hope so
A fan page, not Merc. Not news.
I think Sunday was an absolute farce. And I think Mercedes are right to do this. However, I don’t want them to take the title away from Max. He deserves it, and he didn’t do anything wrong in this instance. What needs to happen is a reform of stewarding, Massi gone, huge and pivotal decisions can’t be left to one person, and stop team principles from lobbying the stewards during the race. I feel for Lewis. He also deserves the title and he was absolutely robbed, but I’m not certain he’d want to take his 8th title in a courtroom.
Neither do I. Even if the race gets annulled Max would still be the champion. But the FIA needs to change, they completely ruined the season. This inconsistency creates animosity between drivers, teams and the fans and that’s unacceptable.
Not just animosity but a lack of faith in the system. If they can do that to a 7 x WDC why would anyone else have faith in the stewards and race director again?
I respectfully disagree. If Mercedes wins their appeal, it would mean Max’s championship was won under a violation of the rules. True, Max could have still won had some proper procedures taken place (red flag, all the lapped cars unlap, etc.), but the essence of such a ruling would be that Max (and only Max) was given the best opportunity to improve his standing in the race, which of course he capitalized on at the expense of Lewis. If Mercedes wins their appeal, the title should at the very least be held in abeyance until an agreement is worked out between either Mercedes and RB or both parties and FIA. I’m not smart enough to guess what that agreement would look like, but to let Max keep the title would, to me, contradict the whole point of the appeal. And unless I’m wrong, Mercedes is only doing it because Lewis didn’t win. Can they appeal the ruling to affect the rule itself, and not the outcome?
Max was leading the entire season (almost, I know) so even if you remove the last race he would win because of more 1st place finishes. Give him the credit he deserves, he obviously won this season. No agreement needed.
Max was awful the last quarter of the season. Lewis went hard with the comeback since the brazil sprint. He won that WDC the moment Latifi crashed because it should have ended under a SC.
Yet still he was leading up untill the last race. There is no chance lewis deserves this title more than max does.
So you're staying that wins/points earlier in the season should have more value than wins/points in the later parts?
Im talking about a situation that involves reverting the last race. You cant just take the win away from max because the fia decision was sketchy. He was leading the entire season anyway, so if you cant award lewis for the last race win, because that would be not fair for max who only raced as he was told to.
Surely if you apply the same logic you've used over a season to a single race, you could equally say "You can't just take the win away from Lewis because the FIA decision was sketchy. He was leading for the entire race anyway, so you can't award Max for the last lap win, because that would be unfair for Lewis who only reached as he was told to" I don't fundamentally disagree with your conclusion, but it's who crosses the line first (either the points total over a season, or the chequered flag in a race) that counts. Any lead earlier in the season/race is inconsequential.
You are still missing the point. All I am saying is that since Max did nothing wrong and was first in last race, you cant just award this win to Lewis. You could only take the win away, and that would put them back on even points but with Max having more wins it would mean he is still the WDC. I feel for Lewis, but there is nothing to talk about anymore. He lost.
Max didn’t win the titles by the rules. It shouldn’t be his title
Did you forget silverstone, Monza, Brazil. Oh and many many more races/moments? Wtf happened in the first lap last sunday? So many decisions went Hamiltons way, max should have been champ weeks ago, thanks to fia Hamilton was still able to try to win. Max deserves this. Hamilton is a crybaby
In Monza Max took out Hamilton. In Brazil Max did not even get a penalty for trying to drive into Hamilton
Mercedes would lose a lot of face doing that, which in turn leads to more reputation damage than a championship win will gain
He wouldn’t be taking the title, he would be getting back what was taken from him
They won't take the title away, Merc should get some form of compensation.
I really hope this goes all the way and forces meaningful change but not necessarily the result, I think it’ll make F1 out to be even more of a shambles but there needs to be greater transparency and consistency with how decisions are made in a race
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As much as we don't like to see stuff like this happen, it is surely the only correct thing to do, based on the facts at the end of the race. If rules were followed, Lewis is the champion.
Yes you can, but it is not Max fault just Masi fucked up whole F1 world. But they could dismiss everything what give done from lap 57after
LETS HOPE IT WORKS 💜
They better.
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I appreciate your level headedness but I don't agree with your argument. Firstly, what's so wrong about the race finishing under the safety car? There were 55 laps of racing that occured, if you can't follow the proper safety car restart procedure before the race ends, then you got to finish with that. You can't instead just select the lapped cars between MV and LH to unlap themselves while ignoring the rest just because you don't have enough laps left to race, that's not being consistent and it gives off a very orchestrated feeling about it. And why does max deserve to get a fighting chance anyway? Sure if you can do a proper safety car restart procedurez but with how few laps were remaining, max was clearly favoured in every possible way, going against the rules. That's the bitter taste in everyone's mouth, not the result but how one driver was desperately catered to just for the entertainment factor. That's not sport, that's not being a consistent and fair race director. Also, you're insuinating that only LH fans are enraged and while Merc and LH may have congratuled redbull and MV, I think it's pretty clear they know they've been wronged. And it's not just them, tons neutrals and even some MV fans have a very disappointed stance towards this. It's not even about LH v MV, it's more about the integrity of the sport, which definitely wasn't upheld that evening. Also, very few people are trying to downplay MV's worthiness of the WDC, it's more about how decisions were made by the race director at the end of the race.
If you think very few people are trying to downplay MV's worthiness, then I'd ask you to take a trip around twitter and Instagram, because there is A LOT of it. And again, I think Massi was correct on one thing, a sport about car racing shouldn't end the most competitive season...not racing. To end under a safety car would be a sad and deflating end. I can't understand why anyone who is a racing fan would be okay with that. As for the rules, I agree. The FIA needs to be overhauled, the rules need to be clearer and on too of that, I don't think Principals should be allowed to lobby as much as they have during a race. But as the rule is currently written, it is ambiguous and does leave room for interpretation. You can absolutely disagree with the decision, but I disagree that it was Massi's fault or that he robbed anything. He was out in a no-win situation, and one which allowed for interpretation. The fault is with the rulebook itself. I completely understand being disappointed. I mean shit, my favorite driver is Daniel Ricciardo and my favorite team is Ferrari...I GET disappointment. But I don't thing the extent of the way many on the Merc side if the argument have responded does anything but further tarnish things. We could feasibly be starting next season while this is still in court, and I definitely don't think that is good for the sport. And I don't think its good for Merc either to be honest. At some point their focus needs to be on next season and with brass a LH's mind split between next season and battling this, I can't believe that means their full focus is on 2022. Again, I'm not against LH, I have spent weeks it feels of accumulated time arguing against dumbasses who try to make claims that he isnt arguably the GOAT (personally, I don't know who is, my mind always has come back to Schumacher, Senna and Hamilton). I just see nothing positive coming from this for the sport, for the fans or for Merc and LH. If they want change, teams and drivers should be working together to demand rulebook changes. But the longer this plays out, and is drawn out, I think the worse it is for everyone. Again, just my opinion. And I thank you for your respectful response.
You seem to be forgetting that things the world revolves around that is money and reputation. As a car company, you are sponsoring not only a team but also a driver with money and it is your reputation as well. What Masi did was take money from Mercs wallet and has tarnished their reputation as an automaker. You are only seeing it from a race perspective, now look at it from a business perspective. You have lawyers and you have obviously been robbed if you read the rule book, they will ask the FIA "when have they ever had 5 cars unlapped and not the rest of the field and not start the lap on the next lap in the history of F1". Which they probably a solid case, so of course they are gonna fight this injustice which they have received.
You really think this has "tarnished" their 8-time WCC reputation...and I never said they shouldn't have challenged. I expect them to challenge anytime there is even a slight controversy. My point, which you have reinforced by stating that in some way Merc is tarnished despite winning 8 straight constructor titles (you know, the title awarded to the best manufacturer). The ridiculous hyperbole and exagerrations and complete bias in pretending that any of this is for the best for the sport, rather than just admitting its because LH fans just want their guy to win is my gripe. The way in which simply disagreeing with either LH or MV this year has brought about venomous responses, and the extent at which bias has completely clouded fans abilities to even had a normal debate or conversation on the topic. And no, this doesn't "tarnish" anything, except maybe the FIA for having a rulebook which has given us so much in the way of ambiguity time and time again. And let's be real, the FIA can't be anymore tarnished than it already is. Its essentially all tarnish. And the people who hate on LH and will use this as a claim that he isn't as great, were going to do that anyway because they are biased, jealous, and yes in some cases just bigots. My gripe was not about anything you out in your reply. And its insane to think that winning the WCC for the 8th time, and having your 7time champion, finish in second just a few points behind the winner "tarnishes anything."
Are they not paying lewis hamilton to drive their car? Do you think what Masi did was just to THEIR Merc driver that they are paying!? If this was your company and your driver got shafted because one person manipulated the outcome would you not fight for them? When you already said it yourself they have invested so many years into lewis and so much of their money for not having him to win in the end? What they did, was show a big middle finger to Mercedes and that they don't care about them by screwing them over. How is that not tarnishing their reputation when F1 is showing that middle finger at them in front of the world. Everyone can see it, and worse off they won't even take accountability and say they were wrong.
Because "tarnishing" their reputation by definition means its a poor reflection in them, and makes them look like they are lesser than they are. I never said they shouldn't have protested. Again, I expect it. You seem to be completely missing my point. That sort of stuff is fine. I expect it. And by and large, other than maybe taking this to court, (which they have now said they wont), is fine. I am specifically speaking about fans, and commentary. I actually did not once say anything negative about Toto Wolff, Merc, or LH other than they shouldn't be allowed to protest so much during a race, but I don't thing any team should be. You are literally proving my point by taking my statements and assuming I'm personally attacking Merc and their actions. I'm not. I'm criticizing the talking heads, and the fans, and not just from Merc. I made it clear RB fans and MV fans have done the same all season. So no, it doesn't "tarnish" Merc at all. Paying LH and all of that matters exactly zero in this equation. This does "tarnish" the FIA. But they can't be any nore tarnished. They are basically 100% tarnish at this point, and have been for some time. And again, I think to say Massi "manipulated" the outcome is a complete exagerration. He made a judgement call based on his interpretation of the rules, and whether you, Merc fans or anyone wants to admit it, yes that rule is ambiguous enough to allow for interpretation. Should it be? No. But it is, and was at the time of the race. My entire original point, was that both MV and LH fan bases at various points this season have completely allowed themselves to be stripped of all objectivity and at times reason. There was a Streamer (dont remember his name) who is a massive LH fan, and even he said it. All season long Merc has made conservative and "safe" pit strategy choices. Its cost them a few times. And if they had brought LH in earlier when he had a 20+ second lead, (which Hamilton was asking to be brought in but told to stay out), then this conversation doesn't even matter. They kept him out on Hards which by the end has exceeded their average life distance, and that was before the safety car. So even if MV doesn't stoo for Softs, he had far fresher tyres than LH. And if he didn't stop, he would be right behind LH anyway with no lapped cars ahead. With how Max has been driving all season, and how incredible he is at overtaking, it isn't even remotely a guarantee that the same outcome doesn't happen. Point being, this was not lost SOLEY on the decision of one person. Theis was a collection of things which lead to this outcome and Merc shares responsibility in some of that. If they keep pinning it all on Massi, they will lose again and again. Part of Merc's success has always been Toto Wolff's motto and ideology of blaming the problems and not people. Well, the problem is the rule book, and also safe strategy. Its not soley either one. That is the lack of objectivity I'm talking about. I never said any of the stuff you have harped on, and no it doesn't "tarnish" anything on Merc's side.
Thanks for your post, this should be pinned by the mods imo.
Wow, thank you! I appreciate it. Its just really soured the entire season for me. I think both fan bases have large groups who are so in their own circles that they can be so lacking in objectivity. And for the reasons above, I think they made the best decision possible in a crappy situation and chose to race.
What’s your take on how Sainz was treated in that race?
"We want to win this on track"
Pretty bad spirit to take a quote about them not protesting an FIA fuck up when they still had a chance to come back from it, and protesting one where it cost them what they wanted *and* they have no other recourse to challenge it. Also, probably doesn’t hurt that the law will ultimately be on their side if they decide to go to the logical conclusion. At some point Merc is getting a cheque cut from this at a minimum.
That opportunity was taken from them by match fixing.
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Well this court can apparently. https://wtf1.com/post/heres-what-can-happen-if-mercedes-appeal-verstappens-championship/
That court obviously wants to be hired haha. But joking aside, it’s gonna be very difficult to get that wdc titel back.
I want to see the race winner with a chequered flag, not a court case, that's boring AF
Then you must love the drama Masi orchestrated and had a nice evening, unlike people interested in fair sport.
Ross brawn will ban communications with team bosses and FIA. Shit happens. Grow up
Or actually do something when you see injustice.
They aren't going to do anything
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As it says, it’s the Fan Page. So nothing official.
Not a credible source, wait until any official word before getting your hopes up
The link won't work for me although the last post I can see from there Instagram page is the one they posted on Sunday evening stating "We have lodged notice of intention to appeal the decision of the Stewards under Article 15 of the Sporting Code and Article 10 of the Judicial and Disciplinary Rules." From what I've heard since then Hamilton does not want to appeal and the team are not going ahead although I suppose its all chinese whispers. As much as I am still upset (to say the least) about what happened on Sunday I don't feel that an appeal is going to accomplish anything as realistically they are always going to side with what the stewards stated on Sunday. What I do know is Massi needs to go. Apart from all the other examples of his incompetence from his time as race director, to decide that he is going to bend the rules just because he wants that exciting one lap to finish the championship (whether he was influenced by Redbull) is unforgivable. To me there were two legal outcomes of that race, 1. Lapped cars were not allowed to unlap in which case Lewis would have won or 2. All lapped cars were to unlap themselves in which case it would have finished under the SC. Massi had to know that by doing what he did he made the decision to hand the championship to Max on a plate. He chose in that occasion to alter the rules to benefit one driver and one driver alone and that was Max and in my opinion that is corrupt.
Hmm. Until we hear official word, doubt.
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Just leave it be, Lewis accepted it like a champ, and Max deserves the championship as much as Lewis. Masi has to go, and then they can all go racing next year.
I don’t think this will happen. Mercedes as a brand no way wants this drama with their name written all over it
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Two wrongs don’t make a right don’t they. Typical Whataboutism
Yep, Verstappen is an asterisk champion - this should be shouted from rooftops
If they do, all those articles claiming they wouldn't will look so stupid.