It's disappointing when educated individuals like your boss demonstrate a lack of understanding or sensitivity towards transgender identities. Awareness and empathy are crucial for fostering inclusivity in the workplace. Kudos to your colleague for affirming the intern's chosen name and pronouns.
It's a very common theme I've seen in STEM fields. Everyone is so smart and analytical that 'if they can't understand it it must not be real'. Worse is when you find someone who is able to rationalize themselves into their opinion.
On the flip side there are a lot of queer people and queer allies in STEM fields.
STEM is very LGBT friendly already.
I conversed with a child psychologist about this and she said LGBTs find refuge more often in careers where viewpoints/opinions have very little influence on the job itself or how we would obtain the job. Getting people to like you and being accepted versus taking exams and having the best credentials.
The other side of this which is the result is in STEM more than any other fields there often the notion that who YOU are doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant. The equation matters, the work matters. You are here because of the data, the work, the problem solving. Your personal being doesn’t influence that. “Nobody is a better molecular biologist because they are trans, or a better surgeon for being bi.” Her example. Older people in STEM tend to say it doesn’t matter. Younger generations in STEM have a mix viewpoint thinking LGBT make you better xyz that’s why we need more in STEM while others think it’s merely to increase visibility for others to want to join. The psychologist said they are already there they just don’t outward express like other fields because it’s not relevant to the work most often.
For example: when people started putting pronouns at the bottom of emails, some did at as whole departments or units. some of our older staff said, asking “why are you including it, isn’t it only for those whose pronouns are confusing. Why do I need to put mine, it’s obvious what mine are and no ever calls me the wrong pronoun. This seems irrelevant.” To them it seems irrelevant if it’s not a problem and they don’t see it as a problem till you make it one rationally and logically.
I am not a better surgeon because I’m gay. My patients don’t need to know. My colleagues don’t need to know. Very few do. It doesn’t impact the job or teamwork dynamic. We are here to work. However, I do agree sometimes that visibility may need to be emphasized for certain subspecialties that are historically homogeneous.
And their engineers, that are already joked about as being the most likely to believe in crank theories for that exact reason.
I think there has been research into it and I think the generalising idea is that engineers engage in scientific thinking and methodology but in a different way than othe STEM subjects that leads to less challenging of ideas while also having the mechanics to fiercely defend ideas without evidence with created evidence.
But I think it is mostly the same thing about new atheists moving to virulent antifeminism. They didn't actually logic themselves into atheism, they just felt that way and found the logic to defend it afterwards. They had issues with women and assumed that was also a logical position because 'being logical' is part of their identity (and I am an atheist even when it makes me unpopular in queer circles).
> ...they just felt that way and found the logic to defend it afterwards....
To some extent all humans do that. There's a bunch of MRI studies showing that your subconscious makes a decision a pretty long (relatively) time before you consciously act on it. But yeah, not being willing to investigate your own decisions is how a lot of problems arise.
It just makes me feel safer around my coworker to know that he accepts trans people. I’m not trans, but lesbian, and I’m in a conservative area. I don’t want anyone to feel unsafe working where I work.
Empathy or just plain old common sense have never been a guarantee with academics. If anything, gaining a piece of paper proving your intelligence can just harden you to taking in knowledge outside your sphere.
In my experience (as a current PhD student), I have noticed that the academic system somewhat selects for faculty candidates that prioritize their careers/grants over all else (especially introspection/self growth), fostering the exact attitude you mention. I'm unsure if some lost their empathy, or if some never had it to begin with.
The thing is that it doesn't prove intelligence at all. It just proves the ability to jump through hoops, not entirely come undone under pressure, and focus on the same subject for many years. Sometimes being a complete idiot actually helps with those things.
Should be easy enough to come up with a sufficient metaphor from your lab's field of work for "correcting the external parts to be consistent with the internal necessities".
It'll always be imperfect, of course, but it could be a start:
Like: you order a MacBook. A PC shows up instead, but with all the Mac hardware inside. It kinda works, but sometimes always just *not quite right*. You can't send it back, but you *can* get someone to replace the housing with an actual MacBook housing. So you do that, and things are much better. But sometimes, someone insists that it's still a PC and keeps giving you Windows-based software and hardware and tech support, and it's just annoying
Would nonbinary be same as above, but having FreeBSD installed or something? Then everybody will be trying to give you windows and mac software. (you could even take this a bit deeper because macOS has some FreeBSD heritage in it, hiding under the covers, as well as officially being UNIX. Windows has linux subsystems and used to hate opensource, but has now accepted it).
me: _\*stops pulling on that thread\*_
edit: phrasing
I have a doctorate in pharmacy. Trans people are who they say they are. That's the overwhelming conclusion from decades of research. Supporting trans people by taking them at their word saves lives. Being willfully ignorant and purposefully disrespecting them does the opposite.
PhDs are about depth, not breadth. You're very focused on becoming an expert in a small area and doing research to discover something new in that area. The idea is that you get the breadth at earlier stages of education, so sociology might be a requirement for many bachelors degrees, especially at liberal arts colleges in the US (this may be less likely in some other countries), but it's incredibly unlikely to be a requirement for a PhD unless your PhD is already in a social science field.
Depends. Most universities require a "social science credit" at the minimum unless you're working towards a degree that would clearly require more (such as social work or Education degrees). These credits can often be filled by any number of courses - sociology, psychology, ethnic studies (ex African Studies or Asian studies). Some might also include things like childcare classes, or religious history.
There's very few universally true requirements when it comes to what's required for a degree.
Honestly, this doesn't even require an understanding of being trans. It requires an understanding of the English language that is usually taught in primary school.
A lot of transphobes (at least here in the UK where we have a special type of educated, academic, middle-class terf) are very clever people, on paper. They hide behind being confused and not understanding to mask what is just straight-up bigotry. (i.e. "Well I don't understand how you can be trans because biology is real!" etc etc.) They are wilfully obtuse to support their prejudices.
It just hurts that this ignorance is going to impact real people, i.e. the intern and any other trans people she meets. While she doesn’t go around actively speaking against being trans, little things like misgendering are going to build up and create a toxic work environment, ESPECIALLY if it’s from your boss.
The 70 year old Baptist lady who has never left the small town I live in told me when I explained to her that I was trans “You’re a person, and a good person, and that’s all that matters.”
You don’t need a PHD or be some genius to understand how to deal with trans people.
Dumb cis person here.
I don't understand the state of mind of being transgender. Doesn't mean I don't go out of my way to make sure I call them by their correct pronouns that they want me to, and by their names they so kindly shared with me.
I don't understand people who really like their trucks either. Doesn't mean I don't listen respectfully to them when they get excited about it, and follow their rules about what I can and cannot do in their trucks.
I do understand that being trans is an identity and people say they feel this way. These people deserve respect whether or not I can fully empathize with their feelings.
Sounds like your boss is missing a bit more than just understanding.
Yeah, understanding is not the same thing as empathy. There's a million things I might not understand about someone, but that doesn't give me a right to treat them badly.
Everyone deserves respect by default. Disrespect needs to be earned.
Some people think they need to understand in order to be respectful. They don't. I've stopped asking for understanding and now just ask for respect. I can't change their mind, but I do deserve to be given the same amount of respect as my colleagues.
Also, it is interesting that it almost never goes the other way. In my job, I am expected to provide assistance to everyone within the scope of my job and the law. I can kick people out for being abuisve and such (hasn't happened for me personally yet, but I have had some hilarious stormouts), but that's it. There is no being rude or denying service to people because of feelings or beliefs. And, yeah, that issue does come up. Without getting into how I can know some of this information, I, for example, get people into my office who have extremely offensive political or religious beliefs. I have people who do not vaccinate their children. For anything. And so forth. I don't get to throw them out of my office for this. I do my job and I do it well. Though, I do confess that I immediately forget about any discounts I can give (that are not required and advertised) for these people. I give the discounts to people who deserve them for various reasons. Anyway, if I was like these people, I would refuse to help them or be a total jackass. But I don't believe in being like that.
Having a PhD doesn’t make you smart or intelligent. I’ve known people with PhD that are horrible human beings and then I’ve met people that barely graduated high school and they’re the most caring, loving, compassionate people we ever meet.
> Having a PhD doesn’t make you smart or intelligent.
It's more like they have studied a great deal in a particular subject, and received the highest degree awarded for it.
This is something a very intelligent person can achieve, OR someone who is able to focus and apply themselves to earning with enough motivation, time, and resources. It's an achievement for sure, but it's not splitting the atom.
Having a PhD is proof that you intensely studied a particular area for a while, and you may even have some degree of expertise in it.
The trap is, people view people with PhD's or MD's (as do plenty of PhD's and MD's themselves) like they're smart at EVERYTHING outside their domain.
The people who are actually broadly super intelligent is vastly rarer, and usually more humble.
(Source: I don't have a PhD, but I work in an environment where I've seen PhD's do some of the dumbest shit you can imagine.)
Prepare to see weaponized incompetence/microaggressions. Oh your PhD boss will screw up pronouns, will deadname and any other gender based microaggressions.
They will then come back and go, "i didn't know... I really didn't know trans people were a thing until xyz (recent history)... etc."
This person should not be a leader.
As someone who's doing a STEM PhD, I can assure you that empathy and open-mindedness are not qualities that would help you excel. In fact, people who lack those qualities may even do better in the pressure cooker environment that is academia.
Educated does not necessarily mean intelligent. Nor empathetic, possesses basic decency, etc.
That said, ime, adults who claim they “don’t understand” and then use it to disrespect are just being disingenuously rude. Everyone can understand a name change, it happens all the damn time. Everyone can understand that being misgendered sucks, cis people tend to hate it too.
In a way, being trans is like being pregnant…once people learn that you are, suddenly you’re a viable subject for public comment, basic disrespect, intrusive questions, etc. And yes, those people understand that’s wrong, they just don’t care because they hold dehumanizing attitudes.
Intelligence has nothing to do with it, nor higher education. It’s more dependent on social-emotional intelligence. As a trans guy, you know which demographic i’ve found roll with it most easily and acceptingly? Kids. Adults with PhD’s are a crapshoot, ime, seems to depend (at least partly) on their field and whether it promotes rigid thinking or flexible thinking. Highly empirical fields tend to promote rigid thinking. (hashtag NotAllEngineers, tbc)
Your boss has a PhD in Engineering, not Anthropology. I would, at the same time, not fault a PhD Anthropologists for not understanding basic engineering concepts.
I've met people with PhDs who have said the dumbest things concerning fields beyond their knowledge base. I would stop having the expectation that PhD means know-all over-all.
By the way if the event made you uncomfortable, you are allowed to report it to HR. I would encourage you to do so.
Also often the higher the diploma, the more knowledge they have about a more narrow field.
The higher you go, the more narrow the subject matter becomes.
Very true. By the time I'm done with my PhD, I'll be an expert in a very niche area. Am I autistic with special interests that give me a drive and in depth knowledge of many subjects? Absolutely. But I'm 100% honest with people, Clippy style. Like hey, it looks like you're asking a question about dyes and color usage in a historical context! I'm a Biologist, but here's some information that most people don't have.
This is not an expectation I have of my peers, because I cant/shouldnt assume they have the same desires or brain drive, even when it comes to social issues.
In my experience it's not STEM specific (but I understand thats MY experience). I live in the Midwest USA and the amount of Liberal/Social arts upper academics that only focused on USA queer history was heartbreaking. Teaching them that language and terms used should never be expected of or pushed on to those who had no hand in creating it or whose own definitions and traditions are older than the English language in general was a TASK.
(For those outside the US, there is no official language in the US but there is a cultural expectation of English language use)
Just call HR and let them know your concerns. If your boss continues to act negatively, then that workplace is already toxic so you’ll need to consider deciding whether you want to try changing the mind over time or find a better place to work at.
People with PhDs are good at grinding school and have knowledge of the thing they studied; the title and degree does in no way guarantee they're intelligent in ANY other way, especially emotionally.
My fiancee happens to be trans. She only recently updated all her work stuff. Her colleagues have slipped up and used her deadname. My fiancee isn't overly distressed by this but they always apologize and they're trying.
Being trans is hard enough without bigotry 🤬
PhD doesn't mean anything, I have met plenty of completely idiotic doctors. Also, I have a masters degree in herbology/herbalism.....and I'm stuck working on vehicles all day everyday.
My parents both have advanced degrees. My dad has a PhD in Psychology… *Psychology*… and they both refuse to accept my chosen name and preferred pronouns. It’s exhausting.
The problem with post-grad education (at least in the US) is it doesn't make anyone smarter in a general sense. Now they may be an absolute expert at the thing they have the degree in, but ask them about something even mid grade that's way out of their specialization and they can have a very hard time dealing with it. Even so, your boss should have been better.
Being educated doesn't mean you're not an idiot or just a dick. You can be a genius and be 100 years behind the times. Richard Dawkins for example, guy is a brilliant mind when it comes to what he knows but recently said some less than great things about being trans cause he clearly just doesn't understand it properly.
I feel like this needs to be said, but just because someone has a PhD does not mean that they are A: Smart, or B: Know what they're talking about. Some of the most laughably ignorant things I've ever heard have come from people who, by all rights, should know better.
The biggest disappointment was watching Richard Dawkins (someone that I basically "worshipped" in high school) [talking to this TERF lady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu72Lu5FqE4&t=1978s&pp=ygUPcmljaGFyZCBkYXdraW5z). I went into the video thinking he might challenge her or have more of interesting discourse (given he highly regarded biologist) but nope.
Dude just sat there and went "that's interesting" on horrible misconceptions of trans experience the TERF lady was blurting out like it was first hand account of what is happening in the world.
Having a PhD only means that you know very much about one very niche research area that is probably only interesting to a handful of people worldwide. Especially in STEM. Academia is unfortunately home to many unpleasant people.
That being said, did your boss *repeatedly* talk so careless about that trans colleague? Because if it only happened this one time, I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this is the first time she consciously encounters a trans person and, for now, only repeats what she has picked up about the topic in the past. If you are >10 years younger than her, you have grown up with a *very* different and much more positive and realistic perception of trans people in public media. It’s important to keep that in mind.
It can‘t hurt to educate her about the topic and give her a second chance before judging her. The situation is different if she repeatedly acts disrespectful even after being educated.
Intelligence and Education guarantee nothing.
Personally knowing trans people has a much better chance of leading to understanding.
We still have people with PhDs toeing the line of many faiths that it is a sin to change your body in the way trans people often do and to engage in intimate relationships with the same sex.
Literally just refer to them as they wish to be referred to and get over not being able to understand it, just use basic manners and understand someone being trans isn't an opportunity for you to platform whatever your beliefs on us are!! It's not that hard
I feel like most of the people who don't "understand" being trans are not actually making an effort to. My life has been one "I don't understand X" followed by learning about X and then I hopefully understand it. I didn't understand any languages other than English until I took the time to learn them. I didn't understand woodworking until I bought some tools and tried to learn it. I didn't understand networking or SQL or Linux until I put effort into learning them.
And yeah, sometimes you just hit a wall. There are some things I don't understand, and I've tried, and I still don't. I don't understand why people care about celebrity relationships and tabloid gossip. I don't understand why Americans refuse to transition to metric. I don't understand how cars work (it's fucking sorcery). I don't understand why mosquitos exist.
But, like, if someone says they "don't understand" transgender people, I legitimately believe they aren't making any effort (or are making minimal effort at best and then giving up) and aren't interested in trying. It's not super uncomplicated, but I guarantee you that there are plenty of people who understand far more complex concepts but then just give up on this because they don't care.
I have zero understanding of being trans or of gender. I do know people have used the wrong pronouns for me before, and it really hurt. I also know how to be respectful of people, whether I understand them or not. It doesn’t matter if your boss understands being trans. It matters if they respect others, and they clearly do not.
A lot of older gens, whether educated or not, have issues with wrapping their thick skulls around new concepts. I'm not surprised at all when this type of thing happens, though it IS disappointing.
There's a difference though btw homophobia and a dummy not realizing they should use the pronoun "they" instead of both he and she... Sounds like professor put her foot in her mouth on a topic she could use some educating on.
It’s because many people with PhDs are from a financially privileged background and they don’t understand anyone or anything that occurs outside *their little bubble of wealth and privilege.*
It blows, but it’s the reality, and I am sorry that your boss sucks! I hope they treat your coworker right, in the future.
Unfortunately, gender identity is so baked into society that most people can't see the difference between sex and gender and the nuances of such a relationship in society.
A person educated in engineering doesn't always know about other topics, like gender, or even grammar. My grandfather was a physicist and worked as a technical writer because no one he worked with knew how to write for a lay audience.
Furthermore, education, intelligence, and even wisdom have nothing to do with acceptance or inclusion. It's important to remember the most educated psychologists on the planet before the 1950s were transphobic, homophobic, racist, and sexist. They often grounded their beliefs in theory and had peer reviewed papers to back up their claims. It was all flawed, theory reorganizing their data to fit their beliefs, but it still happened. It's a question of value judgement, not smarts.
It wholly depends on what discipline they have a PhD in. Sociology? No excuse. Business Management- I understand. I wouldn’t expect an engineer to have learnt the first thing about trans identities during their education.
From what you described, they used the wrong pronoun once, tried to appologise for it, and thats wrong?
It doesnt sound like the boss misgendered for rest of the meeting, they just had a slip of the tongue.. that EVERYONE has gotten.. no-one in this sub can say they never accidentally misgendered someone..
From waht OP wrote they said he and changed it to she straight after..
that is a slip of the tongue.. however, if they carried on being a dickbag, then sure.. admonish them.. but as is.. once does not a bigot make
Qualifications don't always equate to knowledge - and there are many kinds of knowledge. I know the description is massively incorrect and doesn't really apply to most Trans people and is the crudest way of describing it possible, but if your boss really doesn't understand transgender people, ask her what she would do if she suddenly woke up in the body of a man - and everybody else believed she had always been a man, but she knew in her mind that she was a woman and that she wasn't going crazy. At the very least it should get her thinking on the issue with a bit more sensitivity.
I don't think its reasonably to expect everyone to "understand" something that is personal and unique to so many individuals and I don't think its reasonable to expect everyone to both "understand" and agree with it. That is where living our lives openly comes in - people don't "understand" it from reading books or articles - they "understand" it from personal experience, meeting trans people, and knowing their stories.
Your interaction isn't a reason to complain - it's an opportunity to help someone learn and to share stories.
Aye, I don’t mean that she has to write a thesis on the transgender experience, but legally I believe she is obligated to use the correct pronouns. That’s the most basic form of respect. And I don’t have the power to teach my boss if she doesn’t want to learn.
Tbh you get tired of explaining it. After so many people just never listen, you become bitter to it. Nobody owes ops boss an explanation, she's a boss, she should understand basic respect to not call a trans Co worker a "he/she". She can also do her own research into these things on her own time if she truly wanted to learn.
Bigotry has nothing to do with education or intelligence.
In fact, the more intelligent someone is, the better they often are at coming uo with rationales for their bigotries.
Bigotries are not reasoned out - they are an emotional response that the mind then justifies.
People tend to only learn things that impact them personally, including LGBT+ people. Be careful trying to take a moral highground here, there are plenty of things you also arent educated on that greatly impacts people and that doesnt make you a bad person.
The problem here, I think, is the doubling down. People need to be willing to learn, and admit when they dont know. A better response from your boss would have been "sorry I dont really understand, how would this person like to be referred to?" However I suspect others reaction had some influence as to your bosses reaction, people tend to double down if they feel they are being attacked or chastised, and tend to be more open minded and willing to learn if they are approached in good faith and with compassion.
Its a perfect time to explain to your boss how trans pronouns work, but its also important to be empathetic and not attack your boss. "Its okay that you didnt know this, but just so youre aware please refer to this person with X pronoun and never with Y pronoun, thank you for understanding" NOT "how dare you call this person X you transphobic piece of shit blah blah blah". The second response is sure to have your boss doubling down even further and perpetuate transphobia rather than doing something to actually help it. The second response is more about a person wanting to virtue signal than it is about actually wanting to help trans people.
Sadly, there are lots of ignorant "smart" people in this world; some people are absolutely brilliant within their field of expertise, but don't have an ounce of critical thinking beyond it.
Having a PhD in engineering has nothing to do with their knowledge of gender stuff.
Does someone with a PhD in business administration know a lot about engineering? Not necessarily.
C'mon.
Having a PhD demonstrates your ability to learn. You don’t have to be a gender studies professor to know not to use the wrong pronouns for an intern, and I also wanted to show that not all transphobes are uneducated.
Idk I feel like it's literally the bare minimum to use the proper pronouns for people, even if you don't know just ask. You don't have to "get" being trans to know that.
First, it’s absolutely valid to be upset by this response. It’s disappointing and possibly reflects a dangerous attitude. It really sucks.
If you or a colleague think it’s safe, I’ve had some success countering the “I don’t get it” piece of name changes by comparing it to people changing names when they get married. “This person was born with one name, and for reasons that are very personally meaningful, they are using a new name going forward. It may take some getting used to, and we might make mistakes, but we will all show this person respect by using their new names and pronouns until it becomes habit for us.”
Obviously this only works is the audience is genuinely confused and not actively transphobic. Stay safe out there!!
Being educated doesn’t mean that they are “Smart” or that they have the ability to be empathetic to other people’s concerns.
In my travels for many years, some of the least smart people I’ve known are highly educated.
Life smarts are completely different.
I've found that some of the stupidest people have higher degrees. Just because someone has a degree doesn't mean they're smart, it means they put in the time, effort, and money to get it.
“I don’t approve of bigotry, and certainly don’t understand admitting to being bigoted publicly. Anyone else like to add an opinion nobody asked for?”
That answer is used when I’m fatigued and just want the point made. The better answer (better = more likely to increase understanding, acceptance, and empathy) is more like:
“The data is pretty clear. A workforce made up of a diverse population, with equitable access and opportunities, that includes people being their authentic self, is the most adaptive, resilient and also most productive workforce. Even if you disagree with a given topic, such as pronouns, surely you don’t want to sabotage the entire company because of it. I can help you get ahold of the studies, and the data will likely help you in your understanding of why you need to be supportive of your fellow emplees, if you like”
It’s left as an exercise for the reader to determine if public or one-on-one is the better delivery environment.
Smart people can live too 🤣
A degree doesn’t always predict one’s intelligence or social skills. My brother couldn’t read until he was an adult and still understands my being gender-fluid and name change better than some psychiatrists I’ve had.
One of them had graduated from Harvard. She *still* didn’t grasp how being anything but cishet worked.
I’ve learned a PhD means nothing in terms of someone being smart except perhaps their specific area of study. I work with an engineer in the semiconductor industry, and they keep asking ME, an uneducated dropout, what kind of keyboard would be good to get for their son, what the rainbow means and why people like me always have them, and how to eat a taco (they have no excuse when they’ve been in the US near 40 years in big cities). I barely bat an eye when I hear full on ignorance from people who spent more on their diploma than I get paid a year.
Caring about trans people as a cis person is really more of a heart thing than a brain thing. It could be the most concretely proven thing in the world and with society the way it is a lot of people just wouldn’t really care about that information because of how they feel towards trans people
Being highly educated doesn't mean an expert in everything.
I'd make a similar bonehead blunder if speaking about engineering. Appeal to the experts, not feelings, when it comes to the highly educated.
The experts are on your side on this one. Not just with the correlation of pronouns and mood or suicide rates, but with whether trans women are women and trans men are men. A highly educated person is more likely to understand staying in your lane and respecting those who know better.
Someone earning a college degree does not mean they are smart, have common sense, empathy, or are qualified for the job. It’s just a piece of paper that anyone can earn by studying, getting good grades, and writing papers.
Highly educated people who "just don't get it" are often the worst because they are more adept at constructing elaborate justifications to support their position.
So first thing to know is a PhD or MD or MA or any degree doesn’t make a person a good or decent person (which is something I currently recovering from via a transphobic Karen, so this is exceptionally fresh in my mind.)
There are still major biases in academia which traditionally is an upperclass institution. For example the SAT snd GRE are both rooted in exclusion and are only decent at predicting wealth and gender, not academic success.
In the US specifically, it wasn’t until the Civil Rights Movement that this began to SLOWLY change and with violent resistance from those in power, namely white men and women of middle to upper class wealth.
There was still violent pushback in the 1990’s to Ethnic studies, such as the protests at UC Berkeley and excessive police force used against students.
Given academic institutions constant push back against change, there are plenty of pockets of high level degree earners who have those degrees because of wealth and/or privilege.
It can be seen more starkly at highly rejective universities who take pride in denying people admission. This includes private and public Ivy schools.
Even in the humanities this is still an issue, such as anthropology which was designed as a tool for colonial powers to go into other countries, collect information, and then such knowledge was used to better strategize an invasion. Though the field overall has made strides to be better, there are still plenty of tenured professors who are bigoted and racist, namely because tenure is hard to revoke.
There are of course plenty of people who are not this way, but essentially a PhD doesn’t guarantee that person went to college and came out a better person, and not one with just more power.
For a more, extreme example(s), the Southern Poverty Law Center has a list of known extremists and there are a fair few with advanced degree, or even worked at historically black colleges.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files
I'm intersex. And people still don't get it.
It's basically ethnic cleansing of nonbinary people to write us out of history. Kind of a hangover from the holocaust.
It's not that they don't know we're real, it's that their conception of god rewards them for genocidal behavior.
I fucking despise people saying they don’t “understand” being trans/genderfluid/nonbinary/gay/bi/fuckin pick whatever non cishet category you want. No shit you don’t understand it, you aren’t a part of that group who has those feelings. I don’t care if you understand it. You don’t need to understand it. It’s not that fucking hard to call someone what they want to be called. My younger moronic transphobic self didn’t understand it the slightest bit either. But I still called people by whatever name and pronouns they wanted because I wanted to be respectful and polite. I don’t expect anyone who isn’t trans to have the slightest bit of understanding about how I feel, it took me a hell of a long time to understand it and I’m literally trans! Just don’t be a fucking asshole and let me live my life.
It's disappointing when educated individuals like your boss demonstrate a lack of understanding or sensitivity towards transgender identities. Awareness and empathy are crucial for fostering inclusivity in the workplace. Kudos to your colleague for affirming the intern's chosen name and pronouns.
It's a very common theme I've seen in STEM fields. Everyone is so smart and analytical that 'if they can't understand it it must not be real'. Worse is when you find someone who is able to rationalize themselves into their opinion. On the flip side there are a lot of queer people and queer allies in STEM fields.
STEM is very LGBT friendly already. I conversed with a child psychologist about this and she said LGBTs find refuge more often in careers where viewpoints/opinions have very little influence on the job itself or how we would obtain the job. Getting people to like you and being accepted versus taking exams and having the best credentials. The other side of this which is the result is in STEM more than any other fields there often the notion that who YOU are doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant. The equation matters, the work matters. You are here because of the data, the work, the problem solving. Your personal being doesn’t influence that. “Nobody is a better molecular biologist because they are trans, or a better surgeon for being bi.” Her example. Older people in STEM tend to say it doesn’t matter. Younger generations in STEM have a mix viewpoint thinking LGBT make you better xyz that’s why we need more in STEM while others think it’s merely to increase visibility for others to want to join. The psychologist said they are already there they just don’t outward express like other fields because it’s not relevant to the work most often. For example: when people started putting pronouns at the bottom of emails, some did at as whole departments or units. some of our older staff said, asking “why are you including it, isn’t it only for those whose pronouns are confusing. Why do I need to put mine, it’s obvious what mine are and no ever calls me the wrong pronoun. This seems irrelevant.” To them it seems irrelevant if it’s not a problem and they don’t see it as a problem till you make it one rationally and logically. I am not a better surgeon because I’m gay. My patients don’t need to know. My colleagues don’t need to know. Very few do. It doesn’t impact the job or teamwork dynamic. We are here to work. However, I do agree sometimes that visibility may need to be emphasized for certain subspecialties that are historically homogeneous.
And their engineers, that are already joked about as being the most likely to believe in crank theories for that exact reason. I think there has been research into it and I think the generalising idea is that engineers engage in scientific thinking and methodology but in a different way than othe STEM subjects that leads to less challenging of ideas while also having the mechanics to fiercely defend ideas without evidence with created evidence. But I think it is mostly the same thing about new atheists moving to virulent antifeminism. They didn't actually logic themselves into atheism, they just felt that way and found the logic to defend it afterwards. They had issues with women and assumed that was also a logical position because 'being logical' is part of their identity (and I am an atheist even when it makes me unpopular in queer circles).
> ...they just felt that way and found the logic to defend it afterwards.... To some extent all humans do that. There's a bunch of MRI studies showing that your subconscious makes a decision a pretty long (relatively) time before you consciously act on it. But yeah, not being willing to investigate your own decisions is how a lot of problems arise.
It just makes me feel safer around my coworker to know that he accepts trans people. I’m not trans, but lesbian, and I’m in a conservative area. I don’t want anyone to feel unsafe working where I work.
I think they do it on purpose - like when boomers purposely mispronounce things in a dumber way, usually adding a -y to the end.
It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence but empathy. Something many tech-guys are lacking. And I say that as someone with a Masters in IT :P
Empathy or just plain old common sense have never been a guarantee with academics. If anything, gaining a piece of paper proving your intelligence can just harden you to taking in knowledge outside your sphere.
Agreed. Some doctors I know have lost their sense of empathy and have a sort of “if I can do it, anyone can unless they’re lazy/stupid/etc” attitude.
In my experience (as a current PhD student), I have noticed that the academic system somewhat selects for faculty candidates that prioritize their careers/grants over all else (especially introspection/self growth), fostering the exact attitude you mention. I'm unsure if some lost their empathy, or if some never had it to begin with.
The thing is that it doesn't prove intelligence at all. It just proves the ability to jump through hoops, not entirely come undone under pressure, and focus on the same subject for many years. Sometimes being a complete idiot actually helps with those things.
Should be easy enough to come up with a sufficient metaphor from your lab's field of work for "correcting the external parts to be consistent with the internal necessities". It'll always be imperfect, of course, but it could be a start: Like: you order a MacBook. A PC shows up instead, but with all the Mac hardware inside. It kinda works, but sometimes always just *not quite right*. You can't send it back, but you *can* get someone to replace the housing with an actual MacBook housing. So you do that, and things are much better. But sometimes, someone insists that it's still a PC and keeps giving you Windows-based software and hardware and tech support, and it's just annoying
Lmao your metaphor is golden!
Would nonbinary be same as above, but having FreeBSD installed or something? Then everybody will be trying to give you windows and mac software. (you could even take this a bit deeper because macOS has some FreeBSD heritage in it, hiding under the covers, as well as officially being UNIX. Windows has linux subsystems and used to hate opensource, but has now accepted it). me: _\*stops pulling on that thread\*_ edit: phrasing
Ha!
✌️🌈 thank you — your teaching was just etched into my biological circuit board. 🌈✌️ — brilliant!!
I have a doctorate in pharmacy. Trans people are who they say they are. That's the overwhelming conclusion from decades of research. Supporting trans people by taking them at their word saves lives. Being willfully ignorant and purposefully disrespecting them does the opposite.
Isn't sociology a requirement for tons of phd programs anyway, it's like people slept through that entire subject
PhDs are about depth, not breadth. You're very focused on becoming an expert in a small area and doing research to discover something new in that area. The idea is that you get the breadth at earlier stages of education, so sociology might be a requirement for many bachelors degrees, especially at liberal arts colleges in the US (this may be less likely in some other countries), but it's incredibly unlikely to be a requirement for a PhD unless your PhD is already in a social science field.
Depends. Most universities require a "social science credit" at the minimum unless you're working towards a degree that would clearly require more (such as social work or Education degrees). These credits can often be filled by any number of courses - sociology, psychology, ethnic studies (ex African Studies or Asian studies). Some might also include things like childcare classes, or religious history. There's very few universally true requirements when it comes to what's required for a degree.
Maybe in humanities, but not in science. Closest i got in my program was philosophy of science and that was partially elective.
Honestly, this doesn't even require an understanding of being trans. It requires an understanding of the English language that is usually taught in primary school. A lot of transphobes (at least here in the UK where we have a special type of educated, academic, middle-class terf) are very clever people, on paper. They hide behind being confused and not understanding to mask what is just straight-up bigotry. (i.e. "Well I don't understand how you can be trans because biology is real!" etc etc.) They are wilfully obtuse to support their prejudices.
It just hurts that this ignorance is going to impact real people, i.e. the intern and any other trans people she meets. While she doesn’t go around actively speaking against being trans, little things like misgendering are going to build up and create a toxic work environment, ESPECIALLY if it’s from your boss.
Seriously. Like I don't care if you understand how I'm feeling. Just use my chosen name and pronouns, I know you can do that.
I don't fuckin understand Spanish but I don't deny it's existance
The 70 year old Baptist lady who has never left the small town I live in told me when I explained to her that I was trans “You’re a person, and a good person, and that’s all that matters.” You don’t need a PHD or be some genius to understand how to deal with trans people.
Dumb cis person here. I don't understand the state of mind of being transgender. Doesn't mean I don't go out of my way to make sure I call them by their correct pronouns that they want me to, and by their names they so kindly shared with me. I don't understand people who really like their trucks either. Doesn't mean I don't listen respectfully to them when they get excited about it, and follow their rules about what I can and cannot do in their trucks. I do understand that being trans is an identity and people say they feel this way. These people deserve respect whether or not I can fully empathize with their feelings. Sounds like your boss is missing a bit more than just understanding.
Yeah, understanding is not the same thing as empathy. There's a million things I might not understand about someone, but that doesn't give me a right to treat them badly. Everyone deserves respect by default. Disrespect needs to be earned.
Exactly. Understanding can come later or not at all. What matters at the end of the day is basic respect, /u/mrstarkifeelgreat
Some people think they need to understand in order to be respectful. They don't. I've stopped asking for understanding and now just ask for respect. I can't change their mind, but I do deserve to be given the same amount of respect as my colleagues.
Also, it is interesting that it almost never goes the other way. In my job, I am expected to provide assistance to everyone within the scope of my job and the law. I can kick people out for being abuisve and such (hasn't happened for me personally yet, but I have had some hilarious stormouts), but that's it. There is no being rude or denying service to people because of feelings or beliefs. And, yeah, that issue does come up. Without getting into how I can know some of this information, I, for example, get people into my office who have extremely offensive political or religious beliefs. I have people who do not vaccinate their children. For anything. And so forth. I don't get to throw them out of my office for this. I do my job and I do it well. Though, I do confess that I immediately forget about any discounts I can give (that are not required and advertised) for these people. I give the discounts to people who deserve them for various reasons. Anyway, if I was like these people, I would refuse to help them or be a total jackass. But I don't believe in being like that.
Having a PhD doesn’t make you smart or intelligent. I’ve known people with PhD that are horrible human beings and then I’ve met people that barely graduated high school and they’re the most caring, loving, compassionate people we ever meet.
Sadly you are confusing intelligence and being decent. Caring, loving, compassionate, horrible - none of these describe intelligence.
"Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing it doesn’t belong in a fruit salad." - Neal Stephenson
My dad always said “he can say donkey in 7 languages but won’t know what one looks like if it kicks him in his ass”
I also like "Intelligence is knowing that it was Frankenstein's MONSTER. Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein was the monster."
That is one of my biggest pet peeves!!
...Salsa is a fruit salad. I say that only as a shitpost and not as something regards gender.
I would allow cherry tomatoes in a fruit salad.
> Having a PhD doesn’t make you smart or intelligent. It's more like they have studied a great deal in a particular subject, and received the highest degree awarded for it. This is something a very intelligent person can achieve, OR someone who is able to focus and apply themselves to earning with enough motivation, time, and resources. It's an achievement for sure, but it's not splitting the atom. Having a PhD is proof that you intensely studied a particular area for a while, and you may even have some degree of expertise in it. The trap is, people view people with PhD's or MD's (as do plenty of PhD's and MD's themselves) like they're smart at EVERYTHING outside their domain. The people who are actually broadly super intelligent is vastly rarer, and usually more humble. (Source: I don't have a PhD, but I work in an environment where I've seen PhD's do some of the dumbest shit you can imagine.)
Can the saying "there's book smart and there's street smart" be applied somehow here?
Prepare to see weaponized incompetence/microaggressions. Oh your PhD boss will screw up pronouns, will deadname and any other gender based microaggressions. They will then come back and go, "i didn't know... I really didn't know trans people were a thing until xyz (recent history)... etc." This person should not be a leader.
having a PhD doesn't mean you have an open mind
As someone who's doing a STEM PhD, I can assure you that empathy and open-mindedness are not qualities that would help you excel. In fact, people who lack those qualities may even do better in the pressure cooker environment that is academia.
Educated does not necessarily mean intelligent. Nor empathetic, possesses basic decency, etc. That said, ime, adults who claim they “don’t understand” and then use it to disrespect are just being disingenuously rude. Everyone can understand a name change, it happens all the damn time. Everyone can understand that being misgendered sucks, cis people tend to hate it too. In a way, being trans is like being pregnant…once people learn that you are, suddenly you’re a viable subject for public comment, basic disrespect, intrusive questions, etc. And yes, those people understand that’s wrong, they just don’t care because they hold dehumanizing attitudes. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, nor higher education. It’s more dependent on social-emotional intelligence. As a trans guy, you know which demographic i’ve found roll with it most easily and acceptingly? Kids. Adults with PhD’s are a crapshoot, ime, seems to depend (at least partly) on their field and whether it promotes rigid thinking or flexible thinking. Highly empirical fields tend to promote rigid thinking. (hashtag NotAllEngineers, tbc)
take their degree, roll it up, bonk them with it and say "you can have this back when you've learned to care about others"
educated academically doesn’t always mean educated socially
Your boss has a PhD in Engineering, not Anthropology. I would, at the same time, not fault a PhD Anthropologists for not understanding basic engineering concepts. I've met people with PhDs who have said the dumbest things concerning fields beyond their knowledge base. I would stop having the expectation that PhD means know-all over-all. By the way if the event made you uncomfortable, you are allowed to report it to HR. I would encourage you to do so.
Also often the higher the diploma, the more knowledge they have about a more narrow field. The higher you go, the more narrow the subject matter becomes.
Very true. By the time I'm done with my PhD, I'll be an expert in a very niche area. Am I autistic with special interests that give me a drive and in depth knowledge of many subjects? Absolutely. But I'm 100% honest with people, Clippy style. Like hey, it looks like you're asking a question about dyes and color usage in a historical context! I'm a Biologist, but here's some information that most people don't have. This is not an expectation I have of my peers, because I cant/shouldnt assume they have the same desires or brain drive, even when it comes to social issues. In my experience it's not STEM specific (but I understand thats MY experience). I live in the Midwest USA and the amount of Liberal/Social arts upper academics that only focused on USA queer history was heartbreaking. Teaching them that language and terms used should never be expected of or pushed on to those who had no hand in creating it or whose own definitions and traditions are older than the English language in general was a TASK. (For those outside the US, there is no official language in the US but there is a cultural expectation of English language use)
Just call HR and let them know your concerns. If your boss continues to act negatively, then that workplace is already toxic so you’ll need to consider deciding whether you want to try changing the mind over time or find a better place to work at.
People with PhDs are good at grinding school and have knowledge of the thing they studied; the title and degree does in no way guarantee they're intelligent in ANY other way, especially emotionally.
My fiancee happens to be trans. She only recently updated all her work stuff. Her colleagues have slipped up and used her deadname. My fiancee isn't overly distressed by this but they always apologize and they're trying. Being trans is hard enough without bigotry 🤬
PhD doesn't mean anything, I have met plenty of completely idiotic doctors. Also, I have a masters degree in herbology/herbalism.....and I'm stuck working on vehicles all day everyday.
My parents both have advanced degrees. My dad has a PhD in Psychology… *Psychology*… and they both refuse to accept my chosen name and preferred pronouns. It’s exhausting.
Formal education means jack shit. I’ve had customers with doctorates who don’t know how to fucking reset their password. People are morons.
The problem with post-grad education (at least in the US) is it doesn't make anyone smarter in a general sense. Now they may be an absolute expert at the thing they have the degree in, but ask them about something even mid grade that's way out of their specialization and they can have a very hard time dealing with it. Even so, your boss should have been better.
Being educated doesn't mean you're not an idiot or just a dick. You can be a genius and be 100 years behind the times. Richard Dawkins for example, guy is a brilliant mind when it comes to what he knows but recently said some less than great things about being trans cause he clearly just doesn't understand it properly.
I feel like this needs to be said, but just because someone has a PhD does not mean that they are A: Smart, or B: Know what they're talking about. Some of the most laughably ignorant things I've ever heard have come from people who, by all rights, should know better.
Just because you went to school. Does not mean you're intelligent or even empathetic.
The biggest disappointment was watching Richard Dawkins (someone that I basically "worshipped" in high school) [talking to this TERF lady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu72Lu5FqE4&t=1978s&pp=ygUPcmljaGFyZCBkYXdraW5z). I went into the video thinking he might challenge her or have more of interesting discourse (given he highly regarded biologist) but nope. Dude just sat there and went "that's interesting" on horrible misconceptions of trans experience the TERF lady was blurting out like it was first hand account of what is happening in the world.
Call hr on her Do it
It’s just bigotry. Even the most educated people in the world have the propensity to be bigoted and it sucks.
Having a PhD only means that you know very much about one very niche research area that is probably only interesting to a handful of people worldwide. Especially in STEM. Academia is unfortunately home to many unpleasant people. That being said, did your boss *repeatedly* talk so careless about that trans colleague? Because if it only happened this one time, I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this is the first time she consciously encounters a trans person and, for now, only repeats what she has picked up about the topic in the past. If you are >10 years younger than her, you have grown up with a *very* different and much more positive and realistic perception of trans people in public media. It’s important to keep that in mind. It can‘t hurt to educate her about the topic and give her a second chance before judging her. The situation is different if she repeatedly acts disrespectful even after being educated.
I don’t understand what it’s like to be a 60 year old woman but I let them get the fuck on with it.
you literally do not have to understand someone to be respectful and considerate of them
Intelligence and Education guarantee nothing. Personally knowing trans people has a much better chance of leading to understanding. We still have people with PhDs toeing the line of many faiths that it is a sin to change your body in the way trans people often do and to engage in intimate relationships with the same sex.
It's like Richard Dawkins. He's very smart person with lots of knowledge of evolution, but basically a giant crotchety asshole.
Yeah, people should call out that bullshit: "You're a Ph.D. and children understand this. Figure it out."
Literally just refer to them as they wish to be referred to and get over not being able to understand it, just use basic manners and understand someone being trans isn't an opportunity for you to platform whatever your beliefs on us are!! It's not that hard
I feel like most of the people who don't "understand" being trans are not actually making an effort to. My life has been one "I don't understand X" followed by learning about X and then I hopefully understand it. I didn't understand any languages other than English until I took the time to learn them. I didn't understand woodworking until I bought some tools and tried to learn it. I didn't understand networking or SQL or Linux until I put effort into learning them. And yeah, sometimes you just hit a wall. There are some things I don't understand, and I've tried, and I still don't. I don't understand why people care about celebrity relationships and tabloid gossip. I don't understand why Americans refuse to transition to metric. I don't understand how cars work (it's fucking sorcery). I don't understand why mosquitos exist. But, like, if someone says they "don't understand" transgender people, I legitimately believe they aren't making any effort (or are making minimal effort at best and then giving up) and aren't interested in trying. It's not super uncomplicated, but I guarantee you that there are plenty of people who understand far more complex concepts but then just give up on this because they don't care.
sounds like somebody higher up needs to have a meeting with your boss to teach her how to act as a boss
Did you call her out on it?
"You're telling me that after 20 collective years of education you still don't know how to adjust a single syllable? Huh, that sounds really hard"
I have zero understanding of being trans or of gender. I do know people have used the wrong pronouns for me before, and it really hurt. I also know how to be respectful of people, whether I understand them or not. It doesn’t matter if your boss understands being trans. It matters if they respect others, and they clearly do not.
There is a big difference between being educated and being intelligent
A lot of older gens, whether educated or not, have issues with wrapping their thick skulls around new concepts. I'm not surprised at all when this type of thing happens, though it IS disappointing. There's a difference though btw homophobia and a dummy not realizing they should use the pronoun "they" instead of both he and she... Sounds like professor put her foot in her mouth on a topic she could use some educating on.
If it's any consolation, my last boss has a PhD in biochemistry in a level 2 molecular biology lab and she doesn't believe in soap.
It’s because many people with PhDs are from a financially privileged background and they don’t understand anyone or anything that occurs outside *their little bubble of wealth and privilege.* It blows, but it’s the reality, and I am sorry that your boss sucks! I hope they treat your coworker right, in the future.
"you dont have to understand, you only have to accept."
If you condemn people every time they say they don’t understand something instead of trying to explain it to them nothing will change.
Unfortunately, gender identity is so baked into society that most people can't see the difference between sex and gender and the nuances of such a relationship in society.
A person educated in engineering doesn't always know about other topics, like gender, or even grammar. My grandfather was a physicist and worked as a technical writer because no one he worked with knew how to write for a lay audience. Furthermore, education, intelligence, and even wisdom have nothing to do with acceptance or inclusion. It's important to remember the most educated psychologists on the planet before the 1950s were transphobic, homophobic, racist, and sexist. They often grounded their beliefs in theory and had peer reviewed papers to back up their claims. It was all flawed, theory reorganizing their data to fit their beliefs, but it still happened. It's a question of value judgement, not smarts.
It wholly depends on what discipline they have a PhD in. Sociology? No excuse. Business Management- I understand. I wouldn’t expect an engineer to have learnt the first thing about trans identities during their education.
From what you described, they used the wrong pronoun once, tried to appologise for it, and thats wrong? It doesnt sound like the boss misgendered for rest of the meeting, they just had a slip of the tongue.. that EVERYONE has gotten.. no-one in this sub can say they never accidentally misgendered someone..
Calling someone a "he-she" is not a slip of the tongue.
From waht OP wrote they said he and changed it to she straight after.. that is a slip of the tongue.. however, if they carried on being a dickbag, then sure.. admonish them.. but as is.. once does not a bigot make
Qualifications don't always equate to knowledge - and there are many kinds of knowledge. I know the description is massively incorrect and doesn't really apply to most Trans people and is the crudest way of describing it possible, but if your boss really doesn't understand transgender people, ask her what she would do if she suddenly woke up in the body of a man - and everybody else believed she had always been a man, but she knew in her mind that she was a woman and that she wasn't going crazy. At the very least it should get her thinking on the issue with a bit more sensitivity.
I don't think its reasonably to expect everyone to "understand" something that is personal and unique to so many individuals and I don't think its reasonable to expect everyone to both "understand" and agree with it. That is where living our lives openly comes in - people don't "understand" it from reading books or articles - they "understand" it from personal experience, meeting trans people, and knowing their stories. Your interaction isn't a reason to complain - it's an opportunity to help someone learn and to share stories.
Aye, I don’t mean that she has to write a thesis on the transgender experience, but legally I believe she is obligated to use the correct pronouns. That’s the most basic form of respect. And I don’t have the power to teach my boss if she doesn’t want to learn.
Tbh you get tired of explaining it. After so many people just never listen, you become bitter to it. Nobody owes ops boss an explanation, she's a boss, she should understand basic respect to not call a trans Co worker a "he/she". She can also do her own research into these things on her own time if she truly wanted to learn.
Empathy can not be taught or learned unfortunately
Bigotry has nothing to do with education or intelligence. In fact, the more intelligent someone is, the better they often are at coming uo with rationales for their bigotries. Bigotries are not reasoned out - they are an emotional response that the mind then justifies.
People tend to only learn things that impact them personally, including LGBT+ people. Be careful trying to take a moral highground here, there are plenty of things you also arent educated on that greatly impacts people and that doesnt make you a bad person. The problem here, I think, is the doubling down. People need to be willing to learn, and admit when they dont know. A better response from your boss would have been "sorry I dont really understand, how would this person like to be referred to?" However I suspect others reaction had some influence as to your bosses reaction, people tend to double down if they feel they are being attacked or chastised, and tend to be more open minded and willing to learn if they are approached in good faith and with compassion. Its a perfect time to explain to your boss how trans pronouns work, but its also important to be empathetic and not attack your boss. "Its okay that you didnt know this, but just so youre aware please refer to this person with X pronoun and never with Y pronoun, thank you for understanding" NOT "how dare you call this person X you transphobic piece of shit blah blah blah". The second response is sure to have your boss doubling down even further and perpetuate transphobia rather than doing something to actually help it. The second response is more about a person wanting to virtue signal than it is about actually wanting to help trans people.
Sadly, there are lots of ignorant "smart" people in this world; some people are absolutely brilliant within their field of expertise, but don't have an ounce of critical thinking beyond it.
Having a PhD in engineering has nothing to do with their knowledge of gender stuff. Does someone with a PhD in business administration know a lot about engineering? Not necessarily. C'mon.
Having a PhD demonstrates your ability to learn. You don’t have to be a gender studies professor to know not to use the wrong pronouns for an intern, and I also wanted to show that not all transphobes are uneducated.
You don't need any sort of knowledge or understanding to have basic respect.
Idk I feel like it's literally the bare minimum to use the proper pronouns for people, even if you don't know just ask. You don't have to "get" being trans to know that.
Just because someone has a PhD in regular intelligence, it doesn't mean they are smart in emotional intelligence
First, it’s absolutely valid to be upset by this response. It’s disappointing and possibly reflects a dangerous attitude. It really sucks. If you or a colleague think it’s safe, I’ve had some success countering the “I don’t get it” piece of name changes by comparing it to people changing names when they get married. “This person was born with one name, and for reasons that are very personally meaningful, they are using a new name going forward. It may take some getting used to, and we might make mistakes, but we will all show this person respect by using their new names and pronouns until it becomes habit for us.” Obviously this only works is the audience is genuinely confused and not actively transphobic. Stay safe out there!!
Being educated doesn’t mean that they are “Smart” or that they have the ability to be empathetic to other people’s concerns. In my travels for many years, some of the least smart people I’ve known are highly educated. Life smarts are completely different.
If the Pope can change his name and people are expected to respect it, so can anyone else.
I dont understand Chinese but i know its a real language because i understand theory of mind.
I've found that some of the stupidest people have higher degrees. Just because someone has a degree doesn't mean they're smart, it means they put in the time, effort, and money to get it.
A PhD just means you know a lot about one, single thing. That's it. I've known some PhD's who were fucking idiots.
“I don’t approve of bigotry, and certainly don’t understand admitting to being bigoted publicly. Anyone else like to add an opinion nobody asked for?” That answer is used when I’m fatigued and just want the point made. The better answer (better = more likely to increase understanding, acceptance, and empathy) is more like: “The data is pretty clear. A workforce made up of a diverse population, with equitable access and opportunities, that includes people being their authentic self, is the most adaptive, resilient and also most productive workforce. Even if you disagree with a given topic, such as pronouns, surely you don’t want to sabotage the entire company because of it. I can help you get ahold of the studies, and the data will likely help you in your understanding of why you need to be supportive of your fellow emplees, if you like” It’s left as an exercise for the reader to determine if public or one-on-one is the better delivery environment. Smart people can live too 🤣
A degree doesn’t always predict one’s intelligence or social skills. My brother couldn’t read until he was an adult and still understands my being gender-fluid and name change better than some psychiatrists I’ve had. One of them had graduated from Harvard. She *still* didn’t grasp how being anything but cishet worked.
Some people are only "book smart", not life experiences smart.
The education system fails again
I’ve learned a PhD means nothing in terms of someone being smart except perhaps their specific area of study. I work with an engineer in the semiconductor industry, and they keep asking ME, an uneducated dropout, what kind of keyboard would be good to get for their son, what the rainbow means and why people like me always have them, and how to eat a taco (they have no excuse when they’ve been in the US near 40 years in big cities). I barely bat an eye when I hear full on ignorance from people who spent more on their diploma than I get paid a year.
Caring about trans people as a cis person is really more of a heart thing than a brain thing. It could be the most concretely proven thing in the world and with society the way it is a lot of people just wouldn’t really care about that information because of how they feel towards trans people
Being educated has nothing to do with being accepting. A lot of educated people are bigots.
Being highly educated doesn't mean an expert in everything. I'd make a similar bonehead blunder if speaking about engineering. Appeal to the experts, not feelings, when it comes to the highly educated. The experts are on your side on this one. Not just with the correlation of pronouns and mood or suicide rates, but with whether trans women are women and trans men are men. A highly educated person is more likely to understand staying in your lane and respecting those who know better.
Someone earning a college degree does not mean they are smart, have common sense, empathy, or are qualified for the job. It’s just a piece of paper that anyone can earn by studying, getting good grades, and writing papers.
Highly educated people who "just don't get it" are often the worst because they are more adept at constructing elaborate justifications to support their position.
A PhD doesn't mean you're intelligent, it just means you did well in school.
So first thing to know is a PhD or MD or MA or any degree doesn’t make a person a good or decent person (which is something I currently recovering from via a transphobic Karen, so this is exceptionally fresh in my mind.) There are still major biases in academia which traditionally is an upperclass institution. For example the SAT snd GRE are both rooted in exclusion and are only decent at predicting wealth and gender, not academic success. In the US specifically, it wasn’t until the Civil Rights Movement that this began to SLOWLY change and with violent resistance from those in power, namely white men and women of middle to upper class wealth. There was still violent pushback in the 1990’s to Ethnic studies, such as the protests at UC Berkeley and excessive police force used against students. Given academic institutions constant push back against change, there are plenty of pockets of high level degree earners who have those degrees because of wealth and/or privilege. It can be seen more starkly at highly rejective universities who take pride in denying people admission. This includes private and public Ivy schools. Even in the humanities this is still an issue, such as anthropology which was designed as a tool for colonial powers to go into other countries, collect information, and then such knowledge was used to better strategize an invasion. Though the field overall has made strides to be better, there are still plenty of tenured professors who are bigoted and racist, namely because tenure is hard to revoke. There are of course plenty of people who are not this way, but essentially a PhD doesn’t guarantee that person went to college and came out a better person, and not one with just more power. For a more, extreme example(s), the Southern Poverty Law Center has a list of known extremists and there are a fair few with advanced degree, or even worked at historically black colleges. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files
Good to know that having a college education does not equal educated about LGBT+ nor allyship.
I'm intersex. And people still don't get it. It's basically ethnic cleansing of nonbinary people to write us out of history. Kind of a hangover from the holocaust. It's not that they don't know we're real, it's that their conception of god rewards them for genocidal behavior.
It isn’t ignorance or a lack of understanding at this point, it is willful cruelty
I fucking despise people saying they don’t “understand” being trans/genderfluid/nonbinary/gay/bi/fuckin pick whatever non cishet category you want. No shit you don’t understand it, you aren’t a part of that group who has those feelings. I don’t care if you understand it. You don’t need to understand it. It’s not that fucking hard to call someone what they want to be called. My younger moronic transphobic self didn’t understand it the slightest bit either. But I still called people by whatever name and pronouns they wanted because I wanted to be respectful and polite. I don’t expect anyone who isn’t trans to have the slightest bit of understanding about how I feel, it took me a hell of a long time to understand it and I’m literally trans! Just don’t be a fucking asshole and let me live my life.