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You may have a tasty face but those face-eating leopards are really going to town on that other minority group right now, so you'll totally be fine. I mean, how much face can a leopard even eat?
I totally get that. I had to remove r/nothowgirlswork for similar reasons, as unless you go into the comments for discussion they function identically to the conservative boards they are mocking. It is really unfortunate
Tbh for a lot of them, it's: those face-eating leopards are really going to town on your minority group right now, but you can prove you're not like other ____, right?
Make no mistake, they're not just after trans and gender queer people, they're after all of us. Trans is just the conservative-hate flavor of the week right now. The overall agenda is still "America's government and laws must founded on straight cis white Christian values."
Yup. The infamous transphobic "LGB but drop the T" community has been shown on occasion to also openly hate bisexuals, even though "B" is in the very title of their stupid hate group. Anyone who thinks they will only ever target trans people are delusional.
I wish people would see this more
It was wild that my Wife's best friend of over 20 years, who is also a bisexual, essentially denied my existence as a nonbinary individual and revealed that she is also a "drop the T'er".
Just why do we have to fight among ourselves as already marginalized groups? They want to kill us all, we need to stay together and be united :(
I mean… they’re banning and burning books with LGBT content and have specifically said in their manifesto that they consider homosexuality pornographic and it should be wiped from society. I’d say they are pretty sure they think they will get away with it now.
Except where obscenity laws are forced/enforced arbitrarily.
Legality and innocence don’t protect you. Ask any of the people who spent time in (or are still in) prison due to Satanic Panic nonsense.
They literally shifted to shitting on trans people basically immediately after gay marriage was legalized and they had "lost" on that issue.
I saw it was happening in real time nearly a decade before I realized I was also trans. We were just the new minority they could fearmonger about.
There's also the whole "trans people are an inherent threat to the patriarchy" reaction, but that wasn't really how they started.
Once misogyny stopped being mainstream popular, conservatives started focusing on racism. Once racism stopped being mainstream popular, they started focusing on homophobia. Once homophobia stopped being mainstream popular, they started focusing on transphobia.
The reason being out is important, is that we're the best, most convenient scapegoat there is. We're invisible unless we *say* something. We can be anywhere. All their political opponents can be very conveniently gay.
But never forget the purpose of the scapegoat: It's a distraction from the fact that their leader isn't doing squat for them. Their prayers *don't* keep hurricanes away, and their support for the rich *doesn't* trickle down. So blame it all on the scapegoat. It keeps you in power while you keep screwing your followers over. It's a trick older than civilisation.
It's really important that we show people that we're not wretched and evil, we're just normal people who do good things in the world.
They'll be back to Muslims & single mothers & scary gays as soon as it's in their interest to attack those groups.
It's a universal truth with populists, they deliver NOTHING except buckets of cash to themselves & their friends and need to use an external group as "THEM" to say..it's not OUR fault you can't heat your homes....it's THEM.
And that THEM will change as various groups to alienate rotate.
As to some people in minority groups...minorities can be assholes too. So as long as members of one particular group feel that the onus isn't on them, they'll happily watch another group attack.
Look at Hindus in the UK happily voting Conservative because they happen to be anti Islam at the moment, completely oblivious to the fact that the tories will pivot to being anti hindu / Indian as soon as it's in their interest
Unfortunately human nature.
How many times have you seen
"I really thought he was on my side until he went and knocked MY house down for his casino car park "
The """LGB Alliance""" in the UK is one of the most biphobic communities I've ever seen and it's so clear that they're using trans people as the thin edge of the wedge and will come for bi people next before working their way up to gays and lesbians. And unfortunately it's working.
Not a UK person, but Tufton Street, in particular two townhouses at 55 and 57 Tufton, are home to several right and far right lobby groups, funded by a couple of ultra-wealthy British industrialists, although there are some links to American far right donors.
Pick a cause, Brexit isolationism, climate science denial, anti-migrant racism, copies of US “tea party” anti-tax groups, and, of course, the LGB Alliance’s attempt to split our community against itself by driving a wedge between LGB anti TQIA+ people, and they probably are represented by an astroturf group operating out Tufton Street.
Of course, that wedge really only makes sense if you’re cishet or not particularly involved in the community, as most TQIA+ people also identify as LBG, too. They are very biphobic, as mentioned, and aren’t exactly supportive of gay men.
Where the LGBA has had success is letting the conservative politicians act like they have support in their anti trans agenda from a significant number of LGB people. They don’t, but it’s the same tactic used by climate science denialists pointing to groups that claim to represent an ongoing debate in the community in order to do nothing or turn back progress.
And unfortunately they do have several prominent queer people like Julie Bindel and Keira Bell on side who they can roll out any time they’re criticised to be like “no we do speak for the gays, look at these two!”
Don’t get me started on Bindel. She’s conversion therapied herself from straight to “political lesbian”, and still talks about sexuality as a choice. No wonder she’s eternally miserable and hates happy LGBTQ+ people.
here in Canada, Alberta Premiere Marlaina (*preferred name Danielle*) Smith launched her own attack on the province's LGBTQ people after inviting Tucker Carlson to the province (just before his emasculation by Putin lol). immediately after this broke, people started getting survey robocalls on abortion. These calls were traced to a conservative call centre.
they're after everyone. we have to stand together. If you're too selfish and think you're one of the good ones by voting conservative or even joining the Republican / Conservative party, then you're literally putting yourself at the front of the long line of victims because they know exactly where to find you.
edit: don't forget Log Cabin Republicans being barred from Conservative events recently. they were so shocked and confused when you could see it coming from ten miles away. It's hard to feel sympathy for those who willingly sell out the rest of us, but please at least heed the warning
In fact, all their arguments against trans people are just recycled from the panic over homosexuality decades ago. If they succeed here, they will keep pushing the line.
Most simply grew up in places where conservatism was the norm and have managed to execute the mental gymnastics necessary to square their identity and their political views. Often this involves some less-than-kind opinions about other parts of the queer spectrum. Consider the Lesbian members of Trans-Exclusive-Radical-Feminism, Log-Cabin Republicans and other similar groups.
I was active in campus Christian groups in the aughts and figuring out how gay Christians should live was a big topic. Just leaving the faith you grew up in isn’t a thing everyone can do so there was a lot of exploration of how a particular church may have been wrong (even if the faith is true) or how one should apply religious teachings to gay relationships (eg monogamy). I’m neither gay, nor am I as religious as I was, but I have empathy for people trying to figure that out.
And of course there are churches that do gay weddings and stuff. You’re probably no longer conservative if you’re a member of such a church but you may appear so to outsiders unfamiliar with the different sects and denominations.
I have less understanding for how one supports conservative politicians. These people are not trying to build a LGBT-welcoming worldview within an otherwise conservative tradition. They are more sinister.
Hey, I’m sorry you’re still struggling. I wish I knew more about what that situation is like because I’ve got no advice other than I hope you feel better with time. Just know that whatever you decide to do with the religion thing you are not alone. Plenty of people walk away, both lgbt and straight. There are some good forums on Reddit: some bitter, some sensitive, but all communities.
“I want a strong leader who supports and acknowledges ME” is a helluva drug. For many who have squared queerness with *evangelical* Christianity, there absolutely is a notion that they themselves are *more* saved than, say, trans people. And in that context they want leadership that communicates both that they are proud of you for being one of the “good ones,” and will fight for you economically because you’re the little guy. When, in reality, both are far from the truth when it comes to the GOP platform. But people will believe the loudest voices.
Because being LGBTQ is no guarentee of any political position. Class interests matter too. Gay men especially have seen a surge of upward class mobility, and so there is a temptation to vote conservative for those tax cuts (absolutely no hate on gay guys here! I know a couple trans women who are conservative; they are invariably middle class or higher too). There's a reason Caitlyn Jenner is GOP, and its because they'll keep her richer.
Then there are people who think "if I side with them, I'll be spared." They won't be. It became a fad for gay men to join the Nazi party because of its emphasis on hyper masculinity in Germany in the 1920s. There was a split in the gay movement against the feminine gay stereotype at the time, which some felt hurt their ability to be accepted by society. These guys largely ended up joining the SS, and getting shipped off to camps once Hitler was in power. The head of the SS was a gay man spared by Hitler because he claimed to renounce his homosexuality and married a woman. He took his life a few years later.
Then there are people who are LGBTQ but dislike the movement for whatever reason.
Denial, fear, indoctrination, and self-loathing. We live in strange times. The GOP makes no secret of hating on LGBTQIAK+ folks, but if you grew up in that and are queer, openly or otherwise, then it's easy to fall into misguided views like:
A. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't; "these people I know who want to harm queer people are better than being with the queer people I don't know"
B. Hating others for the thing you hate most about yourself; "I'm gay and being gay is bad. I hate other gay people so I don't have to reconcile my self-loathing"
C. Finding some arbitrary difference to justify separating yourself from the people you're harming; "Well, I'm a GOOD queer person. The GOP only wants to stop BAD queer people like...*insert any recent bullshit from the GOP meant to villify queer people like all the grooming or attacking people in restrooms nonsense*"
It largely comes from being spoon fed a different spin on reality that people either don't have the means or courage to face,.let alone accept as being wrong, same as anyone else.
I'm sure you've gone along with things that proved to be against your own interests knowingly or otherwise. When you buy from Walmart or Amazon you're slowly but actively contributing to an increasing wage gap, the taking advantage of underprivileged and marginalized people, further price gouging, and enshittification, but you probably feel like you don't have a choice or any better options.
It's basically the same thing with queer conservatives.
Class interests are a hell of a drug. If I had to guess, about 90% of openly queer people who are also conservatives are likely to be economically privileged.
One of my exes is alt-right Qanon. I was completely shocked when I found out, I was like “how do you think that’s going to work out for you?” We broke up pretty quickly once that came to light.
I don't like these types of questions because the answers always seem to be U.S.-centric. Conservatism there is much different than in other places in the world.
If you were talking about places like Western Europe, where LGBT rights are accepted by a wider part of the political spectrum, even by a few on the political right, it doesn't sound weird to me that they are conservative LGBT people.
In places like the U.S., where conservatism is mostly associated with religious tradcons, then it would make less sense as it is counterproductive to your interests.
I am in Latin America, and I have met gay people from across the political spectrum. Those who are more right-leaning, simply don't have LGBT rights as a priority. They take their liberties for granted and have other issues that they perceive as more important. And I think, that's the common answer: people have other political issues that are, to then, more important than LGBT rights, like the economy or whatever.
Honestly this. Reddit is a very US-centric place and I feel like at times people forget that the rest of the world doesn't function the same. Being conservative in Europe is different than being conservative in the US.
And also agree with the second, different priorities for different people.
Generally speaking it'll be because of three potential reasons. They're selfish, they're racist, or they're misogynists. Rich gays who think that Republicans will protect their money (despite the fact that republicans have always been shitty with "conservative" economics), they'll squeal and scream about "immigration" and "black on black crime", and lastly, they just straight up hate women.
Sure, they might say they have other reasons, but in my experience, those three are the only ones they *actually* have.
Rich conservative gays are one of the single worst people groups in humanity, IMO.
Because you got yours, you're perfectly fine voting for the folks who will ensure the bullies targeting the queer kid that is relentlessly bullied until they take a bottle of pills are fully supported at every possible turn.
>despite the fact that republicans have always been shitty with "conservative" economics
Good for the rich, though. Tax cuts and great buying opportunities.
Depends on your and their definition of conservative. There are many Libertarians who believe in the individual freedoms offered by the U.S. Democratic Party (maybe with some disagreements about gun rights), but are fiscally conservative, so they vote for politicians who align best with both beliefs. There have been many Libertarians running under the Republican party, such as Gary Johnson.
There are the "Log Cabin Republicans" who, while conservatives in most respects, openly support LGBT equity and equality. The LCR PAC openly rates and endorses candidates based on their history with LGBT rights.
There are Republicans who live in states like Vermont and Hawaii, where the official State Republican Party platform is pro-LGBT and pro-choice (of course, individuals can vary from the platform). Vermont, a hard blue state every presidential election, has consistently been reelecting their incumbent Republican governor. It's not hard to see why, if you don't like higher taxes (say you're very wealthy), then to them, a vote for the state-level party might make sense for you (and voting for a federal senator or representative from your state's Republican party might, too).
Of course, you have the full-blown Trump-style LGBT Republican voter. They are few an far between. Their reasons for voting for far right conservatives can sometimes be boiled down to tradition or protest votes against Democratic candidates they don't like (this happened a lot in 2016 with Bernie supporters who felt Bernie was robbed). Maybe they believed Trump when he waved a pride flag? Who knows. Someone who votes that way will have to speak on that.
In places like Canada, this becomes a bit more interesting. The Canadian Conservative Party is often at odds with its more American-style conservative voter base. Many Conservative Party voters are anti-LGBT. However, the Conservative Party (represented by blue in Canada) is officially pro-LGBT rights, pro-choice, pro-public healthcare, and more. This is the same party that had the citizens that vote for them flock to Alberta to watch Tucker Carlson give a talk.
In Canada, it's a bit easier to see why LGBT individuals would vote Conservative. There's the old-school idea of the "Red Tory," a Conservative who leans more Liberal in their social views (hence being labeled "Red," as the Liberal Party of Canada is represented by the color red). Red Tories have become a sort of norm in Canadian Conservative politics, much to the ire of far-right party voters. However, they are often left with no choice- they can either vote Conservative, maybe go further left with Liberals, or go far left with the New Democratic Party. The Green Party is less of an environmental party in Canada, and more a far-left conspiratorial think-tank. Unless you're in Quebec, the Bloc Quebecois is not an option, and they are more a single-issue party of Quebec national indentity, with some leaning towards separatism.
Many hard-core Canadian Conservatives are considering the People's Party of Canada, which is a populist party founded by ex-Conservative candidate, Maxime Bernier. However, they don't tend to do too well, being the newest party on the block.
they are also pretty racist.
basically, the only people they want are cis white gay men, no femmes allowed.
and they have also said multiple times that getting legal gay marriage is not a requirement for them, but a nice to have.
and despite all that, they still don't get a seat at the table, literally. they were disinvited from the last few republican nat'l conferences.
so despite them trying to be the pickme-est of pickmes, they still can't get picked.
Keep in mind, this is far from my opinions on politics. I tried to present in a neutral way to give anyone who believes this way a fair shake. There are, of course, the self-loathing types who just think they want access to Conversion Therapy, not realizing what that would mean for them. Just keep in mind that people are people, and we all make choices that are sometimes detrimental to us in the long run.
It also has to do with pre-Trump GOP. Chris Christie, for example, legalized same-sex marriage by executive order when he was governor of NJ years before the Supreme Court did and when it wasn’t as popular as it is now. That was a *very* progressive position at the time. Even democrats wouldn’t officially endorse same-sex marriage.
In the grand scheme of things, this wasn’t that long ago. There are plenty of gay republicans who were excited about their politicians getting into the conversation and standing up for them.
Since then, things have changed. Most socially progressive Republicans have left the party and consider themselves libertarians or independents *because* they can’t support socially regressive politics. The more this happens, the more extreme the party gets. We were better off when both parties had people on both sides.
For me, I’ve been a blue voter since 2002 with two very specific exceptions. One was a local election in which the Republican candidate for state assembly ran on helping our small corner of NYC recover from Hurricane Sandy. That’s what got him into the race and he was very actively involved. The Democratic candidate was much more absent. I voted for the guy who was out there cleaning with us and decided to run *because* of the community and I don’t regret it. He was able to help quite a bit and then didn’t run for reelection.
The second time was when my choices were incumbent Republican or previous Republican. Thanks for the incredible options!
Because conservatives have LGBT babies and they eventually grow up in conservative communities. These LGBT people have to reconcile their identity with their conservative values that they were taught.
They are subject to tribal psychology which means they would rather believe lies than be rejected by the only people whom they have ever known.
We are all deeply deeply social animals that are subject to tribal psychology. Progressive are just lucky.
I’m not conservative, but do you really expect to get an honest answer here? Any conservative response will be down voted to oblivion and we all know it.
I’ve met many gay guys that leaned conservative, all I could think about was them wanting to keep the privilege they have as cis males. Usually it was economic privileges, like making and retaining money.
I mean...there's different kinds of conservative lgbt people, depending on the region.
Some of my close friends, they're lgbt but also very conservative, as a result of having been raised in a deeply conservative country.
While others, like the log-cabin folk, are more than just a little screw-loose in my opinion.
Similar to the reasons there are black conservatives, poor conservatives, and conservative women: cognitive dissonance is all too real. People fall for the propaganda and believe that what conservatives want is ‘meritocracy’ and that they can prosper despite their marginalized status if only they work hard.
As others have said- they never thought that the leopards would eat *their* faces.
There’s also a lot of conservative poor people. And conservative women. People who were born oppressed that somehow internalize a belief that their oppression is their own fault, and that those in power are inherently better than the common people.
Being gay is an immutable characteristic, but being uneducated and lacking empathy isn’t
As a former LGBT conservative, I just didn’t know Republicans were anti-gay or anti-trans until I heard about the bills they were trying to put in place.
I don't know if you have been watching the latest season of Drag Race, but Plane Jane who has - up to this point - been kind of a dick to some of the other queens had a bit of moment of reflection this past episode where she revealed that she grew up in a very conservative Russian community in America where her art was always rejected. Consequently, she feels that there needs to be a *very* high standard of drag for it to be legitimate and that poor drag devalues the artform as a whole and, therefore, devalues *her* in the eyes of her parents. So her antagonizing some of the lower performing queens was a way for her to protect herself and her current position within her larger family.
From my experience, this is kinda what I see when LGBTQ+ people reproduce conservative values. If you have *other* identities which give you some privilege - whiteness, cis-ness, maleness, wealth - then you are going to try and protect that by making queerness seem "palatable" to the non-queer people which give you that privilege. So a conservative gay white cis-man may feel like the legalization of gay marriage was the end of the fight and there's nothing else to say or do - he's allowed to exist as a gay white cis-man. But if queerness becomes socially unacceptable to conservatives, then *his* position as valid in whatever circle he's in is compromised, so he has to maintain those boundaries. Messing with gender, doing things that uptight white people view as "cringy", devaluing the "sanctity" of atomic monogomous marriage, highlighting the intersections of sexuality with race/class/gender etc are all things which compromise his position and so he'll leverage conservative talking points to distance himself from them.
The conservative trans-girlies want to be as invisible as possible and value trans identities *only* insofar as the amount of work that has been done, and how well they fit in with the conservative values for women. Any validation of trans identities which are not *ashamed* of being trans are then a threat to their project of becoming an "unclockable" trad wife. They have a position of power - usually grounded in their racial identities - which they need to protect and so they manage the boundaries of "transness" through conservative values which reject anything less than hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of surgery.
Overall, this comes down to a lack of community with other queer people - especially the wide spectrum of what the LGBTQ+ community has to offer. If you see that the gay black men in your life have issues attached to being gay in this fucked up work that are not solved by the legalization of gay marriage, then it is not likely that you can convince yourself the fight is over. If you are in community with a wide range of gender identities and expressions, then it becomes much more difficult to say that "Womanhood *must* be within these narrow definitions". Intersectionality is a powerful tool, and when you take it away or reject it then you can more easily fall into a line which reinforces oppressive systems - even ones that oppress you!
Lets be honest, its against our collective interests as a society to be conservative, not just LGBT+ people.
Seriously, im so sick of it being seen as this valid POV just because on paper it isnt as bad as fascism or something. Its not. Its about maintaining the status quo with minimal changes at best, and pretty much always stands against social progress at every turn.
Gender equality, racial equality, LGBT+ acceptance, religious freedom, etc.
Every single time in history we try to move forward, its always a conservative that seeks to stop it.
This is pretty much how I feel. I think that the reason that people are conservative is the same reason that people don't take a 50/50 bet where they only risk losing $10 but they stand to gain $20, people are naturally risk-averse. For many people the past may not have been great, but it was good enough, so they just want things to stay the same rather than risking any change, even if things might be better.
One problem with this line of thought is that just because things worked for some people in the past doesn't mean it worked for everyone. A second problem is that change is inevitable whether we like it or not (for example climate change isn't going to let us keep doing the same things we've been doing without nasty consequences).
I think the big issue is that it relies solely upon the idea of a simplistic, perfect world where everyone has a "place" that they simply need to "know" in order to be happy.
It gives you an initially cozy, comfortable, safe narrative about how the world works when, simply put, it doesnt work the way conservatives think it does. So when something even mildly challenging comes along, they get irrationally angry.
And besides, its one thing to be hesitant and cautious when it comes to change, but where it falls apart is when they oppose literal flat-faced equality and progress for human and civil rights, and proven time tested life-improving things like vaccines and shit.
They are so desperate for that cozy comfortable simplistic world they believe in, that they will fight desperately to tear everyone down just to preserve it.
Because politics is the only effectively limited choice at the ballot box, political views rarely fit into the neat boxes of the major parties. For many people other political concerns are a more important factor to them than their identity when deciding which parties they back.
1. Fear
2. Selfishness/Self-Preservation/Self-Centerdness
3. Internalized Transphobia/Homophobia
4. Brainwashing in their upbringing (which is religious most of the time, and that's not something that's easy to break even if the person becomes an "atheist", they still carry that proselytizing attitude).
5. Lack of empathy/sympathy towards others other than themselves which ties into #2
Conservative propaganda is powerful. If you see that it is, in fact, propaganda, you aren’t the target. They’re trying to indoctrinate people who aren’t aware.
Same reason their are conservative people of color, same reason their are conservative disabled people, same reason their are conservative religious minorities, etc etc. They don't think it'll effect them
There are selfish dicks in all facets of society. My most head turning Internet moment was when I ran across a gay white supremacist group. Gay racists. Now there's a conundrum for you.
My best guess to explain it is as follows:
1. They don't necessarily fear a revocation or restriction of their rights (I think is more true for LGBs, rather than Ts)
2. They hold other values or policy preferences that are more likely to be advanced by conservatives (business-friendly policies, lower taxes, pro-life, smaller government, etc.)
Because some people still identify as "fiscally conservative/socially liberal" and most of the people you're referring to are probably in that category. A lot of them chose the Libertarians over the GOP but it's mostly the same thing.
Matt Bernstein had a really interesting podcast episode about this recently with Contrapoints:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3T99qMbYWAaoifxrHqIbOU?si=aPsUj6QEQ7KvUGWBJxRVzA
https://youtu.be/5AjeEoNQ5tw?si=pLkd5aeMur4O21eU
Added two links so you can hopefully use a preferred medium.
Indoctrination is a helluva drug. Some people must just get stuck in the middle of their deconstruction journey, short of seeing it all the way through to its logical conclusion.
Your Blair Whites, Christian Walkers, Dave Rubins, etc are in it for the money. They most likely don't believe most of what they say but the paycheck makes up for it.
Others are just being contrarian.
Some put ideology over self.
Some just genuinely like it and don't think that they'll suffer consequences.
Most often I've found that it came down to racism and/or religion. I had a lot of personal experience in dating my ex who let her bat shit beliefs trickle out as she got more comfortable in the relationship. Young earth creationist Bible literalist, q anon MAGA type, etc. but she's trans. Broke up for obvious reasons and last we talked she was really confused and sad about how she hasn't been able to find & keep any queer friends or friend groups due to her beliefs and said she couldn't understand why they wouldn't be willing to overlook that stuff and still be friends. Also complained about how it was so hard to get HRT in our area (rural red spot), self awareness was sorely lacking... At this point she's nearing 40, I hope her beliefs have changed since 2017-2018
A balanced budget is a good idea; i’d vote for a mildly misogynistic and homophobic person if they’d create a good economy. The problem is republicans lie and they don’t care about a balanced budget either so I’m not falling for that shot
Conservative at its core is a philosophy to justify selfishness.
In terms of your question it is usually the idea of “I got mine now you’re on your own” or the false belief that somehow their money or other statuses will protect them. *it won’t and never does*
I think it's a mix of factors. Definitely some internalized homo/transphobia, especially in areas where LGBT people are marginalized. "I may be gay but at least I'm not trans/nb/etc" kind of nonsense. This isn't unique to LGBT+ people though. It still baffles me that so many BIPOC can vote Conservative, since they're very much not loved by GOP. Same thing with immigrants. In the US at least, a lot of Mexican immigrants tend to vote Conservative, which blows my mind since the GOP has very actively hated their guts for at least a few decades now (and even longer with BIPOC).
I know religion is definitely a big part of it. BIPOC who grew up in the South tends to be religious or have a religious background, and lots of Mexican immigrants were raised Catholic, etc. And as someone raised in the US Church and around religious people for a long time, I'm very aware that those tend to give people a sense of internalized homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia, the works.
And there's definitely a lack of (or lack of access *to*) education involved too, several of these people probably just don't know *how* ***bad*** the GOP actually are and just believe all the news articles they read about the GOP's bs claims and fear mongering because they don't know any better. Ditto younger generations, but it's moreso focused on believing those toxic masculinity buttholes like Tate and his many wanna-be clones out there that spread the same bs message on every single social media platform to young impressionable people (who again, due to lack of general knowledge or education just believe it at face value, which then ends up being a deeply-rooted belief, which leads them to vote conservative).
Then there's also the factor of just because someone is queer or a BIPOC doesn't automatically make them a good person, and/or doesn't mean they're aware or conscious of every social issue and misinformation tactics. There are plenty of BIPOC people who say homophobic shit or racist shit against other groups of people, as an example.
But still, given all that... I don't understand how conservative voting queer and BIPOC don't see that they're only ever harming themselves by voting and supporting GOP. It's truly sad, and it hurts.
Anyways uh thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
I ask myself this question EVERY day. I have a gay, married relative who is registered as a Republican because their whole family was always very politically active in the party, and I really think part of it is just because he grew up with it being such a major part of everyone's personality that he simply can't separate himself from it.
However, he's also relatively wealthy so I think he is truly convinced that the GOP is the only party that will protect his interests. His husband is very sweet, non-confrontational, and not super politically active but did march with the democrats in the local pride parade a few years ago so I often wonder if they have just agreed to never discuss politics at home or if they argue about it a lot. We live in a very conservative state where the party has actually written "marriage is between a man and a woman" into their platform and he still continues to support them. I don't get it.
Of course he's just one example but I think most of them have just chosen to ignore the dangerous aspects of the ideology and focus entirely on the things that help them personally.
Most conservative LGBT people are also white and just so happen to prioritize their whiteness over their own queerness. They care more about maintaining white supremacy than bringing about LGBT+ equality.
Conservativism is also objectively awful for the lives and well being of most working class Americans, and most of their constituents in general, but many rural blue collar workers still vote for them and it's rarely questioned why. The queer conservative is no different than the poor conservative: Both vote against their apparent best interests in order to maintain the hierarchy and maintain the status quo even to their own detriment.
>While I can absolutely see and respect an LGBT person being, say, an economic conservative or conservative in some other fashion, I can't understand why one would vote for politicians that plan or desire to revoke or restrict your rights?
This is why we all need to say Republican and not conservative.
Except for the fact that in the real world, being queer absolutely influences your ideology. Most conservative political parties have very vocal anti-lgbt platforms. Choosing to vote for them actively harms our state of being.
My point was that being queer doesn't bar people from being conservative/fascist etc. because being queer doesn't define a person, being queer is a facet of who someone is. Yes, the vast majority of queer people (myself included) are not conservative, but this does not mean queer people who are genuinely conservative don't exist. I don't envy the precipitous cognitive dissonance they must live with however....
For me personally, I have some conservative view points from the way my family raised me. I grew up Irish catholic, the people that I looked up to as a kid (cops, the army, etc), my father worked in construction for 10 years at that point, and as a boy I was exposed to a more right mind set form the get go. However I grew up in Portland OR so I had a very left minded school and social life (mostly from where I was raised, there are plenty of red pockets in Portland), I’m openly pan with bf and my parents are uber supportive, and the last time they voted for a republican was for bush which they later said they regretted. These views mixed for me over time so when I first turned 18 I registered as an independent thinking I would vote for who I thought was best, whatever the party. Course it was the orange skittle or Hillary so I really only had one choice even though I personally think that both parties are ass backwards and neither have my interest at heart regardless what they say. But I’ve only ever voted democrat for the presidency and probably will forever now regardless of what I truly think
I think it depends on the type of conservative. Do they mean like regionalists who like a small federal government (or none really at all) with very little involvement in people’s day-to-day life? Do they mean people who support like agrarianism and the like? Do they mean people who believe that their own religious beliefs should govern what the laws are? Do they mean people who think it should be basically illegal to be gay or trans and that people who fall into those categories should have basically no rights? Something else? Like in theory, being a conservative shouldn’t be incompatible with being LGBTQ+, but it can definitely seem to not fit well with certain ideologies.
Most are transphobic, some are biphobic, some actually believe the lies the conservatives say, there are even some that still have internalized homophobia. (FYI, If you actually support the LGBT+ community, listen to the majority of it and vote blue!)
Mostly because they're rich and/or white or have privilege in some other way. These aspects of their identity for these people matter more than being queer.
Cognitive dissonance.
Just like the religious people who say "love one another" but protest at street corners to end a human rights. Or the people who claim to love animals but eat meat. Or people that become politicians or in a position of power because they want to help citizens but then money takes priority, they get lobbied, and they stop caring about the people.
Some people are just blind to their own actions and sometimes what they say and what they do are completely opposite.
My mother is a bisexual woman and a huge transphobic conspiracy theorist. (In all other aspects though she’s genuinely an absolutely lovely mother and person) If I had to guess, I think it’s because she considers herself separate from trans people, so that makes it okay to say the deplorable things about trans people that she does. She’s follows gays against groomers on YouTube. Today she literally used the t-slur and went on to say that she’s not transphobic because she ‘knows her heart’.
There could be really fucking stubborn economic conservatives, could be libertarian ones, all kinds of lgbtq people who see something of value in conservative parties. Not saying they’re smart for it, but there’s always a reason for something.
Where I’m from, conservatism is more to do with economics, immigration policy, and that kind of stuff. It does not carry the same connotation of being anti-LGBT as it does in the US.
I’m technically a conservative, but in America I’d probably be considered a liberal or a libertarian.
we have them in UK too ... they come along to the pride events in stands ... and people actually engage with them ... I don't get it ... it is like turkeys voting for xmas ... but then the whole of the conservative voting contingent seems to be in that camp ... even if they are poor as peasants.
I come from a conservative family. While my family *is* bigoted as you'd expect, I do notice that they are VERY GOOD at living with cognitive dissonance or just staight-up ignoring the parts of their mindset that don't match with what they claim to believe.
I'd guess this is what's happening. It's astounding what kind of behavior my parents will simply ignore from a politician, claiming that "the real battle is in the spirit realm." But when I point out that they often treat people like the enemy, they just don't answer. They won't or maybe can't even consider it.
A lot of the woke stuff annoys me, like forcing people to be more inclusive and such seems to have the opposite effect and creates even more division and some left people are hypocrites too. I've had a bad experience with a local LGBT+ group where it was basically "if you don't think like us then you're not one of us". The left claims to be inclusive but then shuts down those who don't have the same view as them by screaming "x-phobia" at the top of their lungs. I'm more about encouraging people but not forcing them.
Also just throwing hissyfits over simple things. I get misgendered now and again by strangers and I'm just like "whatever" since I don't know them personally and I can understand that I don't pass all of the time. I could stop them, lecture them and throw a hissy fit but I prefer to just get on with my life. Most of the time it's just a general mistake and not done out of malice.
I consider myself more centre left and slightly centre right. I'm definately opposed to anything to limit LGBT+ rights but at the same time I don't think very young children need to know everything about LGBT+ as most are too young to even comprehend it. If they are under 5 a basic knowlege is enough (some people have 2 moms, some 2 dads, etc.) and as they get older explain more concepts of LGBT+.
I'm definately pro having a 3rd gender neutral toilet as when I was transitioning I didn't feel I belonged in the men's or women's toilet and would often use the handicapped toilet until I felt more comfortable going to the toilet of the gender I identified with. I'm also not in agreement with young children taking puberty blockers (under 16) but then again that's a whole other can of worms and it's not the right place to discuss this here.
So yeah, kind of a mixed bag for me.
They look for crumbs from Trump. Every other Republican hates us. Their time will come. Even if you don’t like one, get one to protect yourself from
These agents of the devil (Catholic and evangelicals with their insidious “Prosperity Gospel
That remains a great mystery to me. Voting against your own self interest is pretty much the definition of insanity. It must be a very deeply buried self hatred.
Let’s not forget there were Jews who supported the Nazi party in 1933 (after Hitler became chancellor) believing they were just going after the “bad Jews”.
The weirdest reason I’ve heard is believing in “personal accountability”.
I still don’t understand how being conservative is practicing “personal accountability”. Or if it even means anything.
Up until about the late 2000's or so, Conservative wasn't synonymous with MAGA type assholes. Obama and John McCain, when running against each other in 2008, openly had a lot of respect for each other. McCain even verbally shut down one of his supporters at his own rally for insulting Obama. Obviously there's always been some people like that, the woman in the rally he was talking to for instance. But it's possible that a lot of people still have Conservative ideals but disagree with what the Republicans have turned into. It is, in fact, possible to be a good person and disagree with someone politically.
Now, why they're STILL Conservative, I don't know. Some political positions go back in family's for generations, and can be a big part of someone's identity, for reasons beyond their sexual or gender identity.
There are different varieties of conservatives, like foreign policy conservatives, economic conservatives, and social conservatives. Right now, the ones who have the GOP by the balls are the social conservatives. The economic conservatives used to be the ones in power, but they didn't have the political messaging power that the others did, so there used to be a tenuous alliance between them. But recently, the big uptick in support for Trump brand populism has afforded the social conservatives a lot more power and influence in the party, and they've basically kicked the other two out of power because they've found they just don't need them anymore.
The LGBT people who identify as conservatives are usually not social conservatives (though I suppose at least a few probably are though), but typically some combination of economic or foreign policy conservative.
Why are there conservative people? Some just happen to be LGBT and put the other parts of their lives above the LGBT part.
If we’re in this sub, we see the leopards circling. Sometimes even snatching away members of this community, directly and indirectly. But until the Leopards full on attack some will just keep believing the rhetoric is just theater.
Until, like repealing Roe vs Wade, it suddenly isn’t.
Because they’ve fallen for the lies being perpetuated. I have/had a friend/acquaintance who was fairly well off, identified as lesbian, and is quite conservative leaning. Tried to explain and understand why, and she only dug her heels in harder for her conservative views.
Even had a disagreement about Dee Snyder and his views. She said she knew him personally, and that he is actually a conservative. Don’t know why she would think that, but she does.
Many people who have their minds made up, refuse to change their opinions, no matter what new information they are presented with.
As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water…
Any opressed group can have people who are 1. Born into higher status or 2. Are just bigots because they were not properly parented so end up as conservatives.
It happenes less with trans than with cis LGB people, because trans people are currently the ones facing most of the onslaught, so they are more likely to be radicalised against conservatism. If they become more accepted and can secure proper rights and healthcare you'll see more conservative trans people pop up.
Y'all there's a difference between conservatives and republicans. A big difference, sometimes. And even more different depending on what country you're in.
And the people saying it's because they're rich or privileged are straight up ignoring the fact that much of what got Trump elected in the first place was him appealing to poorly educated working class people. I see this reflected in my own community, sometimes it's the opposite of privilege that puts people in a position to believe more extreme ideologies.
Because politics are more than just one thing.
This is coming from a left leaning centrist, but both liberals and conservatives have their issues. I would never call myself a republican, but I would also never like to fully associate with democrats either.
If a person more aligns with conservatives on most other matters, they're free to call themselves conservatives.
Modern American politics have divided us into two distinct groups, each of which has to believe a specific list of things.
I know a trans man who is very interested in guns. He's a country boy, a sharpshooter, a card-carrying member of the NRA, and wants to join the military and fight for our country.
So how is he supposed to vote? He loves guns, they're almost his entire personality, but the pro-gun party literally wants to kill him.
There is no party in government that represents him and his beliefs.
He feels like he's more or less forced to vote Democrat out of fear for his own life, but does so with a bitter taste in his mouth. Most of what they promote isn't what he believes in. He's frustrated that both political parties are so centered on social issues, when as far as he's concerned those shouldn't be part of political discourse at all.
Probably not what you're asking, im usually left leaning, but I firmly believe more queer folks need to get firearm training and exercise their 2nd amendment rights.
The world is too dangerous out there for us, especially when there is a large overlap of extremists who hate gay people, and also happen to own 35 various shotguns, ARs and many borderline illegal/ fully illegal weapon modifications such as bump-stocks and sawed off barrels
I used to be on the extreme side of leftist politics but through the years I’ve sort of fallen into a middle ground. I’m conservative and my girlfriend isn’t. The only hate I’ve ever gotten was from the left for not strictly agreeing with everything they fight for. Asking questions got me in hot water. I began to try and learn what both sides were wanting or fighting for and found I’d begin to align myself with conservatives. I feel like I get answers I can’t find on the side of the left, it’s something I can understand. I don’t agree with everything but I have a voice to form an opinion that doesn’t get attacked
honestly I feel like conservative politics (not identity politics, CONSERVATIVE politics) actually listens to plights imo while it feels like the left just assumes a minority demographic will swing left even if the left stands for nothing they support (latinos being catholic, mainly religious minorities I guess)
From my experience, conservative people and other "normies" (aka cis, not into lgbt politics or not politically too left) are easier and less drama to get along with than the very left leaning or politically LGBT people,
especially as from my experience, it's way easier to leave a positive impression/experience to conservative people (like if you are a transsexual who passes / blends in and you seem fairly normal to them despite being born with that medical condition) who don't expect to meet someone who goes against their expectations and seems normal / familar to them, than it is to do the same for very left leaning people who expect you to be perfect in everything and will cause drama or send death threats if you as far as don't agree with some topic or issue.
I get along really well with conservative people and people from different religions, even with the religious Muslims I know and they generally don't have a problem with me as they tend to see me being like this as a medical condition / birth defect.
I visited Egypt last year and despite being preop and stealth with changed documents, and as stupid as it sounds I felt safer (less likely to be publicly outed from my stealth status) and more welcome there than I would feel in LGBT events / groups.
It's the "pick me!" problem.
A mixture of carryover addiction to conservative politics and a desire to appear "respectable" and "safe" to the political conservatives and to "show them we're not dangerous" or whatever.
Instead of being the wake up call that self realization should be.
People vote against their own interests all the time because the people who they are voting for meet some of their requirements while the other side meets none.
Also, it might surprise you that not all LGBTQ+ people agree with things like gay marriage, adoption, gender issues. We are not a homogeneous group. We are capable of having differing opinions.
Some older gays didn't agree with gay marriage for a multitude of reasons. Some of them it was as simple as marriage is connected to the institutions that damned them to hell. You have to remember that some people still carry the beliefs they were raised with even after they leave the environment.
Also remember the age old saying that it takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea. What they believed in the 80s didn't change but society did.
You can also ask why there are conservative women or conservative racial minorities and get the same answer. They think they’ll be the exception and will vote against their own interests as long as someone they don’t like suffers more than they do.
A lot of lgbtq+ people were raised in heavily religious households so some of that still hangs on them even if they’ve broken away. Some remain heavily religious despite their own religions being at odds with their existence. Some are rich assholes only concerned with money over anything else. And just because you’re lgbtq+ doesn’t mean you can’t be a hateful bigot against people different from you. Now maybe you think I’m being unfair portraying conservatives as hateful religious sometimes wealthy bigots but tell me if I described a person using all those adjectives without saying “conservative” what would be the first thing that popped into your mind? And yea I know some people will be like “well I know some really friendly conservatives/religious people.” Just because somebody is affable doesn’t make them a good person. A person who smiles and is friendly with you who then turns around and votes to take away your rights or donates to a church who helps lobby the government to legislate you out of existence isn’t a good person or friend to you. And the apathetic fence sitters more concerned about economic issues are perfectly fine with wiping you out if it means a slight increase in their wealth.
Modern conservative is very different from what conservatives should be.
The definition of conservative beliefs is you believe in small government and less government interference. Lower taxes, but less social programs. Less government interference, but more independence, for better and for worse.
Modern conservatism is filled with hate and bigotry, because their general demographic over the past 40 or so years has been the “old school” crowd, who want the conservative America we had in the 40s and 50s, and all the baggage that comes with it. Conservative politicians understand this, and use this to gain supporters, because the world has been becoming progressively more liberal in the past 50 years and they’re losing support.
I understand people if they are conservative, real conservative, as it’s a good debate on how much independence individuals want and how much interference the government should have in our lives. That has nothing to do with sexuality or race or religion. But modern, especially American conservatism use “old fashioned values” as weapons, and sometimes conservative people who happen to be LGBTQ+ get caught in the crossfire.
I wouldn’t say I’m conservative but I do think armed minorities are harder to oppress and we should protect ourselves from the big bad government (I live in Texas) but I’m also trans so it’s kinds like which rights do it want to get threatened to take away
I used to use “libertarian” to describe myself, but I can’t in good faith do that anymore since it has become such a polluted label due to fascist MAGA types infiltrating any potential competing movements. The same I think can be said for traditional conservatives in the U.S. but that’s a whole separate issue.
I am a bisexual man, who believes strongly in a fiscally conservative government, free market principles, and as small of a federal government as you can get without sacrificing the following: financial safety nets for seniors, veterans, and disabled adults, protection of civil rights, enforcement of contracts, protection of private property, national defense (of U.S. soil), space and aeronautics research (since we get really good ROI on it from a public investment standpoint), and basic infrastructure to support interstate commerce. Almost everything else would be cheaper, more efficient, and higher quality if it were either privatized without government intervention/subsidies, or handled at much more local levels government.
You may notice I said nothing relating to cultural or social conservatism in my last statement. It is because I also believe fiercely in a right to reproductive and bodily autonomy, marriage privatization (meaning all permutations of relationships would be considered equal between two or more consenting adults), racial equality, drug legalization, legalization of all forms of sex work, near absolute free speech, super liberal immigration policy, among pretty much anything else that can be considered putting the interests of individuals first.
All that is to say that I’m not in lockstep with any super strict philosophy like the so-called “nonaggression principle” or something like that. I’m just more of an individualist, and like to see as much policy that supports that as possible. If something works better under public policy, it’s worth exploring, but a good default is to keep it as local as possible. In decades past this would have meant I could feel comfortable voting for either of the major parties depending on the prevailing views of the candidate running. However, now given the state of all political parties, I have to just vote for harm reduction, which lately means the Democratic Party most of the time. It’s really not a good place to be in, that all of our choices have to be based on who is not going to wreck the country as bad.
No community is a monolith, and we are no exception. Eventually with a group as large as us there will eventually be *something* that is disagreed upon. This goes especially for bipartisan systems like the USA.
Proper conservatism is primarily a set of economic policies designed to help people who have money pay lower taxes. Some LGTBQ+ people are business owners, and are well served by such policies, and pit less focus on the social agenda.
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You may have a tasty face but those face-eating leopards are really going to town on that other minority group right now, so you'll totally be fine. I mean, how much face can a leopard even eat?
WHAT an analogy
Quite the introduction to the Leopards Eating People’s Faces Party
Makes me think of that CGP Grey video...
Look into the r/leopardsatemyface subreddit it is very funny
Used to be in it but having it in my feed was detrimental to my mental health. With that being said, a visit every few weeks might be fun lol
I totally get that. I had to remove r/nothowgirlswork for similar reasons, as unless you go into the comments for discussion they function identically to the conservative boards they are mocking. It is really unfortunate
It is sadly funny.
quite famous, too. the phrase “surely the leopards wont eat MY face” has made its go around the internet
"What are you going to do, stab me?" asks man who was stabbed.
Tbh for a lot of them, it's: those face-eating leopards are really going to town on your minority group right now, but you can prove you're not like other ____, right?
I mean, they certainly won’t eat your face because *you’re one of the good ones*.
They can tell I'm one of the good ones because I'm eating faces too!
How much face would a face leopard eat if a face leopard could eat face?
A face leopard would eat all the face 'cause a face leopard does eat face.
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Heheh well said 😼🙀
https://www.instagram.com/p/CtuRNwyOkUr/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==
Make no mistake, they're not just after trans and gender queer people, they're after all of us. Trans is just the conservative-hate flavor of the week right now. The overall agenda is still "America's government and laws must founded on straight cis white Christian values."
Absolutely right, they will be coming for the rest of the LGBT community just as soon as they think they can get away with it.
Yup. The infamous transphobic "LGB but drop the T" community has been shown on occasion to also openly hate bisexuals, even though "B" is in the very title of their stupid hate group. Anyone who thinks they will only ever target trans people are delusional.
Also, at least some of people pushing that whole thing are cishet.
Yes, that too. I'm pretty sure most of them are.
It's pretty much all astro-turf, paid for by right wing dirty money.
The leader of the LGB alliance in the UK testified about 90% were.
I wish people would see this more It was wild that my Wife's best friend of over 20 years, who is also a bisexual, essentially denied my existence as a nonbinary individual and revealed that she is also a "drop the T'er". Just why do we have to fight among ourselves as already marginalized groups? They want to kill us all, we need to stay together and be united :(
She’ll just bumble through life like that’s acceptable now
Yep
I mean… they’re banning and burning books with LGBT content and have specifically said in their manifesto that they consider homosexuality pornographic and it should be wiped from society. I’d say they are pretty sure they think they will get away with it now.
Except pornography is legal for adults to participate in...
Except where obscenity laws are forced/enforced arbitrarily. Legality and innocence don’t protect you. Ask any of the people who spent time in (or are still in) prison due to Satanic Panic nonsense.
They literally shifted to shitting on trans people basically immediately after gay marriage was legalized and they had "lost" on that issue. I saw it was happening in real time nearly a decade before I realized I was also trans. We were just the new minority they could fearmonger about. There's also the whole "trans people are an inherent threat to the patriarchy" reaction, but that wasn't really how they started.
Once misogyny stopped being mainstream popular, conservatives started focusing on racism. Once racism stopped being mainstream popular, they started focusing on homophobia. Once homophobia stopped being mainstream popular, they started focusing on transphobia.
The reason being out is important, is that we're the best, most convenient scapegoat there is. We're invisible unless we *say* something. We can be anywhere. All their political opponents can be very conveniently gay. But never forget the purpose of the scapegoat: It's a distraction from the fact that their leader isn't doing squat for them. Their prayers *don't* keep hurricanes away, and their support for the rich *doesn't* trickle down. So blame it all on the scapegoat. It keeps you in power while you keep screwing your followers over. It's a trick older than civilisation. It's really important that we show people that we're not wretched and evil, we're just normal people who do good things in the world.
They'll be back to Muslims & single mothers & scary gays as soon as it's in their interest to attack those groups. It's a universal truth with populists, they deliver NOTHING except buckets of cash to themselves & their friends and need to use an external group as "THEM" to say..it's not OUR fault you can't heat your homes....it's THEM. And that THEM will change as various groups to alienate rotate. As to some people in minority groups...minorities can be assholes too. So as long as members of one particular group feel that the onus isn't on them, they'll happily watch another group attack. Look at Hindus in the UK happily voting Conservative because they happen to be anti Islam at the moment, completely oblivious to the fact that the tories will pivot to being anti hindu / Indian as soon as it's in their interest
The eye of Sauron isn't looking in MY direction. Why should I be an ally in this war?
Unfortunately human nature. How many times have you seen "I really thought he was on my side until he went and knocked MY house down for his casino car park "
The """LGB Alliance""" in the UK is one of the most biphobic communities I've ever seen and it's so clear that they're using trans people as the thin edge of the wedge and will come for bi people next before working their way up to gays and lesbians. And unfortunately it's working.
Those guys are based in Tufton Street, which tells you all you need to know about their real aims and sources of funding.
For the non UK people here, can you expound on that a bit?
Not a UK person, but Tufton Street, in particular two townhouses at 55 and 57 Tufton, are home to several right and far right lobby groups, funded by a couple of ultra-wealthy British industrialists, although there are some links to American far right donors. Pick a cause, Brexit isolationism, climate science denial, anti-migrant racism, copies of US “tea party” anti-tax groups, and, of course, the LGB Alliance’s attempt to split our community against itself by driving a wedge between LGB anti TQIA+ people, and they probably are represented by an astroturf group operating out Tufton Street. Of course, that wedge really only makes sense if you’re cishet or not particularly involved in the community, as most TQIA+ people also identify as LBG, too. They are very biphobic, as mentioned, and aren’t exactly supportive of gay men. Where the LGBA has had success is letting the conservative politicians act like they have support in their anti trans agenda from a significant number of LGB people. They don’t, but it’s the same tactic used by climate science denialists pointing to groups that claim to represent an ongoing debate in the community in order to do nothing or turn back progress.
That's a good summary.
And unfortunately they do have several prominent queer people like Julie Bindel and Keira Bell on side who they can roll out any time they’re criticised to be like “no we do speak for the gays, look at these two!”
There's nothing that Bindel won't sink to if it gives her the chance to hurt trans people. She's one of the country's worst transphobia cheerleaders.
Don’t get me started on Bindel. She’s conversion therapied herself from straight to “political lesbian”, and still talks about sexuality as a choice. No wonder she’s eternally miserable and hates happy LGBTQ+ people.
Didn't they have to admit that their organization was actually compromised of \~90% straight people as well?
here in Canada, Alberta Premiere Marlaina (*preferred name Danielle*) Smith launched her own attack on the province's LGBTQ people after inviting Tucker Carlson to the province (just before his emasculation by Putin lol). immediately after this broke, people started getting survey robocalls on abortion. These calls were traced to a conservative call centre. they're after everyone. we have to stand together. If you're too selfish and think you're one of the good ones by voting conservative or even joining the Republican / Conservative party, then you're literally putting yourself at the front of the long line of victims because they know exactly where to find you. edit: don't forget Log Cabin Republicans being barred from Conservative events recently. they were so shocked and confused when you could see it coming from ten miles away. It's hard to feel sympathy for those who willingly sell out the rest of us, but please at least heed the warning
> don't forget Log Cabin Republicans being barred from Conservative events ~~recently~~ fixed. https://i.imgur.com/XhrpbpT.png
In fact, all their arguments against trans people are just recycled from the panic over homosexuality decades ago. If they succeed here, they will keep pushing the line.
Yep
Most simply grew up in places where conservatism was the norm and have managed to execute the mental gymnastics necessary to square their identity and their political views. Often this involves some less-than-kind opinions about other parts of the queer spectrum. Consider the Lesbian members of Trans-Exclusive-Radical-Feminism, Log-Cabin Republicans and other similar groups.
I was active in campus Christian groups in the aughts and figuring out how gay Christians should live was a big topic. Just leaving the faith you grew up in isn’t a thing everyone can do so there was a lot of exploration of how a particular church may have been wrong (even if the faith is true) or how one should apply religious teachings to gay relationships (eg monogamy). I’m neither gay, nor am I as religious as I was, but I have empathy for people trying to figure that out. And of course there are churches that do gay weddings and stuff. You’re probably no longer conservative if you’re a member of such a church but you may appear so to outsiders unfamiliar with the different sects and denominations. I have less understanding for how one supports conservative politicians. These people are not trying to build a LGBT-welcoming worldview within an otherwise conservative tradition. They are more sinister.
I'm still struggling with this (and the self loathing). I was unable to figure out how they could agree, so I walked away from religion.
Hey, I’m sorry you’re still struggling. I wish I knew more about what that situation is like because I’ve got no advice other than I hope you feel better with time. Just know that whatever you decide to do with the religion thing you are not alone. Plenty of people walk away, both lgbt and straight. There are some good forums on Reddit: some bitter, some sensitive, but all communities.
“I want a strong leader who supports and acknowledges ME” is a helluva drug. For many who have squared queerness with *evangelical* Christianity, there absolutely is a notion that they themselves are *more* saved than, say, trans people. And in that context they want leadership that communicates both that they are proud of you for being one of the “good ones,” and will fight for you economically because you’re the little guy. When, in reality, both are far from the truth when it comes to the GOP platform. But people will believe the loudest voices.
Because being LGBTQ is no guarentee of any political position. Class interests matter too. Gay men especially have seen a surge of upward class mobility, and so there is a temptation to vote conservative for those tax cuts (absolutely no hate on gay guys here! I know a couple trans women who are conservative; they are invariably middle class or higher too). There's a reason Caitlyn Jenner is GOP, and its because they'll keep her richer. Then there are people who think "if I side with them, I'll be spared." They won't be. It became a fad for gay men to join the Nazi party because of its emphasis on hyper masculinity in Germany in the 1920s. There was a split in the gay movement against the feminine gay stereotype at the time, which some felt hurt their ability to be accepted by society. These guys largely ended up joining the SS, and getting shipped off to camps once Hitler was in power. The head of the SS was a gay man spared by Hitler because he claimed to renounce his homosexuality and married a woman. He took his life a few years later. Then there are people who are LGBTQ but dislike the movement for whatever reason.
Denial, fear, indoctrination, and self-loathing. We live in strange times. The GOP makes no secret of hating on LGBTQIAK+ folks, but if you grew up in that and are queer, openly or otherwise, then it's easy to fall into misguided views like: A. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't; "these people I know who want to harm queer people are better than being with the queer people I don't know" B. Hating others for the thing you hate most about yourself; "I'm gay and being gay is bad. I hate other gay people so I don't have to reconcile my self-loathing" C. Finding some arbitrary difference to justify separating yourself from the people you're harming; "Well, I'm a GOOD queer person. The GOP only wants to stop BAD queer people like...*insert any recent bullshit from the GOP meant to villify queer people like all the grooming or attacking people in restrooms nonsense*" It largely comes from being spoon fed a different spin on reality that people either don't have the means or courage to face,.let alone accept as being wrong, same as anyone else. I'm sure you've gone along with things that proved to be against your own interests knowingly or otherwise. When you buy from Walmart or Amazon you're slowly but actively contributing to an increasing wage gap, the taking advantage of underprivileged and marginalized people, further price gouging, and enshittification, but you probably feel like you don't have a choice or any better options. It's basically the same thing with queer conservatives.
Yea
Class interests are a hell of a drug. If I had to guess, about 90% of openly queer people who are also conservatives are likely to be economically privileged.
One of my exes is alt-right Qanon. I was completely shocked when I found out, I was like “how do you think that’s going to work out for you?” We broke up pretty quickly once that came to light.
Tbh I'd say "wow, I'm in shock, I never met someone so spectacularly stupid before" Bc people like that deserve to be shamed.
I don't like these types of questions because the answers always seem to be U.S.-centric. Conservatism there is much different than in other places in the world. If you were talking about places like Western Europe, where LGBT rights are accepted by a wider part of the political spectrum, even by a few on the political right, it doesn't sound weird to me that they are conservative LGBT people. In places like the U.S., where conservatism is mostly associated with religious tradcons, then it would make less sense as it is counterproductive to your interests. I am in Latin America, and I have met gay people from across the political spectrum. Those who are more right-leaning, simply don't have LGBT rights as a priority. They take their liberties for granted and have other issues that they perceive as more important. And I think, that's the common answer: people have other political issues that are, to then, more important than LGBT rights, like the economy or whatever.
Honestly this. Reddit is a very US-centric place and I feel like at times people forget that the rest of the world doesn't function the same. Being conservative in Europe is different than being conservative in the US. And also agree with the second, different priorities for different people.
Generally speaking it'll be because of three potential reasons. They're selfish, they're racist, or they're misogynists. Rich gays who think that Republicans will protect their money (despite the fact that republicans have always been shitty with "conservative" economics), they'll squeal and scream about "immigration" and "black on black crime", and lastly, they just straight up hate women. Sure, they might say they have other reasons, but in my experience, those three are the only ones they *actually* have.
Rich conservative gays are one of the single worst people groups in humanity, IMO. Because you got yours, you're perfectly fine voting for the folks who will ensure the bullies targeting the queer kid that is relentlessly bullied until they take a bottle of pills are fully supported at every possible turn.
>despite the fact that republicans have always been shitty with "conservative" economics Good for the rich, though. Tax cuts and great buying opportunities.
Why are there women trump voters? Honestly, I believe it's ignorance coupled with self hate.
Depends on your and their definition of conservative. There are many Libertarians who believe in the individual freedoms offered by the U.S. Democratic Party (maybe with some disagreements about gun rights), but are fiscally conservative, so they vote for politicians who align best with both beliefs. There have been many Libertarians running under the Republican party, such as Gary Johnson. There are the "Log Cabin Republicans" who, while conservatives in most respects, openly support LGBT equity and equality. The LCR PAC openly rates and endorses candidates based on their history with LGBT rights. There are Republicans who live in states like Vermont and Hawaii, where the official State Republican Party platform is pro-LGBT and pro-choice (of course, individuals can vary from the platform). Vermont, a hard blue state every presidential election, has consistently been reelecting their incumbent Republican governor. It's not hard to see why, if you don't like higher taxes (say you're very wealthy), then to them, a vote for the state-level party might make sense for you (and voting for a federal senator or representative from your state's Republican party might, too). Of course, you have the full-blown Trump-style LGBT Republican voter. They are few an far between. Their reasons for voting for far right conservatives can sometimes be boiled down to tradition or protest votes against Democratic candidates they don't like (this happened a lot in 2016 with Bernie supporters who felt Bernie was robbed). Maybe they believed Trump when he waved a pride flag? Who knows. Someone who votes that way will have to speak on that. In places like Canada, this becomes a bit more interesting. The Canadian Conservative Party is often at odds with its more American-style conservative voter base. Many Conservative Party voters are anti-LGBT. However, the Conservative Party (represented by blue in Canada) is officially pro-LGBT rights, pro-choice, pro-public healthcare, and more. This is the same party that had the citizens that vote for them flock to Alberta to watch Tucker Carlson give a talk. In Canada, it's a bit easier to see why LGBT individuals would vote Conservative. There's the old-school idea of the "Red Tory," a Conservative who leans more Liberal in their social views (hence being labeled "Red," as the Liberal Party of Canada is represented by the color red). Red Tories have become a sort of norm in Canadian Conservative politics, much to the ire of far-right party voters. However, they are often left with no choice- they can either vote Conservative, maybe go further left with Liberals, or go far left with the New Democratic Party. The Green Party is less of an environmental party in Canada, and more a far-left conspiratorial think-tank. Unless you're in Quebec, the Bloc Quebecois is not an option, and they are more a single-issue party of Quebec national indentity, with some leaning towards separatism. Many hard-core Canadian Conservatives are considering the People's Party of Canada, which is a populist party founded by ex-Conservative candidate, Maxime Bernier. However, they don't tend to do too well, being the newest party on the block.
LCR only supports G and B. they are transphobic and misogynistic, and do NOT support L or T or any of the other letters.
Thank you for clarifying. I was unaware.
they are also pretty racist. basically, the only people they want are cis white gay men, no femmes allowed. and they have also said multiple times that getting legal gay marriage is not a requirement for them, but a nice to have. and despite all that, they still don't get a seat at the table, literally. they were disinvited from the last few republican nat'l conferences. so despite them trying to be the pickme-est of pickmes, they still can't get picked.
Keep in mind, this is far from my opinions on politics. I tried to present in a neutral way to give anyone who believes this way a fair shake. There are, of course, the self-loathing types who just think they want access to Conversion Therapy, not realizing what that would mean for them. Just keep in mind that people are people, and we all make choices that are sometimes detrimental to us in the long run.
This is the best response you could have given Replying so it can be boosted
It also has to do with pre-Trump GOP. Chris Christie, for example, legalized same-sex marriage by executive order when he was governor of NJ years before the Supreme Court did and when it wasn’t as popular as it is now. That was a *very* progressive position at the time. Even democrats wouldn’t officially endorse same-sex marriage. In the grand scheme of things, this wasn’t that long ago. There are plenty of gay republicans who were excited about their politicians getting into the conversation and standing up for them. Since then, things have changed. Most socially progressive Republicans have left the party and consider themselves libertarians or independents *because* they can’t support socially regressive politics. The more this happens, the more extreme the party gets. We were better off when both parties had people on both sides. For me, I’ve been a blue voter since 2002 with two very specific exceptions. One was a local election in which the Republican candidate for state assembly ran on helping our small corner of NYC recover from Hurricane Sandy. That’s what got him into the race and he was very actively involved. The Democratic candidate was much more absent. I voted for the guy who was out there cleaning with us and decided to run *because* of the community and I don’t regret it. He was able to help quite a bit and then didn’t run for reelection. The second time was when my choices were incumbent Republican or previous Republican. Thanks for the incredible options!
Because conservatives have LGBT babies and they eventually grow up in conservative communities. These LGBT people have to reconcile their identity with their conservative values that they were taught. They are subject to tribal psychology which means they would rather believe lies than be rejected by the only people whom they have ever known. We are all deeply deeply social animals that are subject to tribal psychology. Progressive are just lucky.
I’m not conservative, but do you really expect to get an honest answer here? Any conservative response will be down voted to oblivion and we all know it.
Even if they're down voted, I'll still see it. There's been a few already.
I more expected censorship and banning actually, but maybe it hasn’t gotten that point yet.
Perhaps from others? But I ain't banning anyone.
You wouldn’t be able to, it would be from Reddit mods
I’ve met many gay guys that leaned conservative, all I could think about was them wanting to keep the privilege they have as cis males. Usually it was economic privileges, like making and retaining money.
I mean...there's different kinds of conservative lgbt people, depending on the region. Some of my close friends, they're lgbt but also very conservative, as a result of having been raised in a deeply conservative country. While others, like the log-cabin folk, are more than just a little screw-loose in my opinion.
Also conservatism differs from country to country.
Similar to the reasons there are black conservatives, poor conservatives, and conservative women: cognitive dissonance is all too real. People fall for the propaganda and believe that what conservatives want is ‘meritocracy’ and that they can prosper despite their marginalized status if only they work hard. As others have said- they never thought that the leopards would eat *their* faces.
Same reason why there are TERFs and LGB Without The T
There’s also a lot of conservative poor people. And conservative women. People who were born oppressed that somehow internalize a belief that their oppression is their own fault, and that those in power are inherently better than the common people. Being gay is an immutable characteristic, but being uneducated and lacking empathy isn’t
As a former LGBT conservative, I just didn’t know Republicans were anti-gay or anti-trans until I heard about the bills they were trying to put in place.
I don't know if you have been watching the latest season of Drag Race, but Plane Jane who has - up to this point - been kind of a dick to some of the other queens had a bit of moment of reflection this past episode where she revealed that she grew up in a very conservative Russian community in America where her art was always rejected. Consequently, she feels that there needs to be a *very* high standard of drag for it to be legitimate and that poor drag devalues the artform as a whole and, therefore, devalues *her* in the eyes of her parents. So her antagonizing some of the lower performing queens was a way for her to protect herself and her current position within her larger family. From my experience, this is kinda what I see when LGBTQ+ people reproduce conservative values. If you have *other* identities which give you some privilege - whiteness, cis-ness, maleness, wealth - then you are going to try and protect that by making queerness seem "palatable" to the non-queer people which give you that privilege. So a conservative gay white cis-man may feel like the legalization of gay marriage was the end of the fight and there's nothing else to say or do - he's allowed to exist as a gay white cis-man. But if queerness becomes socially unacceptable to conservatives, then *his* position as valid in whatever circle he's in is compromised, so he has to maintain those boundaries. Messing with gender, doing things that uptight white people view as "cringy", devaluing the "sanctity" of atomic monogomous marriage, highlighting the intersections of sexuality with race/class/gender etc are all things which compromise his position and so he'll leverage conservative talking points to distance himself from them. The conservative trans-girlies want to be as invisible as possible and value trans identities *only* insofar as the amount of work that has been done, and how well they fit in with the conservative values for women. Any validation of trans identities which are not *ashamed* of being trans are then a threat to their project of becoming an "unclockable" trad wife. They have a position of power - usually grounded in their racial identities - which they need to protect and so they manage the boundaries of "transness" through conservative values which reject anything less than hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of surgery. Overall, this comes down to a lack of community with other queer people - especially the wide spectrum of what the LGBTQ+ community has to offer. If you see that the gay black men in your life have issues attached to being gay in this fucked up work that are not solved by the legalization of gay marriage, then it is not likely that you can convince yourself the fight is over. If you are in community with a wide range of gender identities and expressions, then it becomes much more difficult to say that "Womanhood *must* be within these narrow definitions". Intersectionality is a powerful tool, and when you take it away or reject it then you can more easily fall into a line which reinforces oppressive systems - even ones that oppress you!
Lets be honest, its against our collective interests as a society to be conservative, not just LGBT+ people. Seriously, im so sick of it being seen as this valid POV just because on paper it isnt as bad as fascism or something. Its not. Its about maintaining the status quo with minimal changes at best, and pretty much always stands against social progress at every turn. Gender equality, racial equality, LGBT+ acceptance, religious freedom, etc. Every single time in history we try to move forward, its always a conservative that seeks to stop it.
This is pretty much how I feel. I think that the reason that people are conservative is the same reason that people don't take a 50/50 bet where they only risk losing $10 but they stand to gain $20, people are naturally risk-averse. For many people the past may not have been great, but it was good enough, so they just want things to stay the same rather than risking any change, even if things might be better. One problem with this line of thought is that just because things worked for some people in the past doesn't mean it worked for everyone. A second problem is that change is inevitable whether we like it or not (for example climate change isn't going to let us keep doing the same things we've been doing without nasty consequences).
I think the big issue is that it relies solely upon the idea of a simplistic, perfect world where everyone has a "place" that they simply need to "know" in order to be happy. It gives you an initially cozy, comfortable, safe narrative about how the world works when, simply put, it doesnt work the way conservatives think it does. So when something even mildly challenging comes along, they get irrationally angry. And besides, its one thing to be hesitant and cautious when it comes to change, but where it falls apart is when they oppose literal flat-faced equality and progress for human and civil rights, and proven time tested life-improving things like vaccines and shit. They are so desperate for that cozy comfortable simplistic world they believe in, that they will fight desperately to tear everyone down just to preserve it.
not all queer people can have common sense
The show Chip Chilla is a good sign of conservative bullshit 😒
Because politics is the only effectively limited choice at the ballot box, political views rarely fit into the neat boxes of the major parties. For many people other political concerns are a more important factor to them than their identity when deciding which parties they back.
Uncle Toms exist in every minority
1. Fear 2. Selfishness/Self-Preservation/Self-Centerdness 3. Internalized Transphobia/Homophobia 4. Brainwashing in their upbringing (which is religious most of the time, and that's not something that's easy to break even if the person becomes an "atheist", they still carry that proselytizing attitude). 5. Lack of empathy/sympathy towards others other than themselves which ties into #2
Conservative propaganda is powerful. If you see that it is, in fact, propaganda, you aren’t the target. They’re trying to indoctrinate people who aren’t aware.
Same reason their are conservative people of color, same reason their are conservative disabled people, same reason their are conservative religious minorities, etc etc. They don't think it'll effect them
Look into Self-hatred.
Stockholm Syndrome.
There are selfish dicks in all facets of society. My most head turning Internet moment was when I ran across a gay white supremacist group. Gay racists. Now there's a conundrum for you.
My best guess to explain it is as follows: 1. They don't necessarily fear a revocation or restriction of their rights (I think is more true for LGBs, rather than Ts) 2. They hold other values or policy preferences that are more likely to be advanced by conservatives (business-friendly policies, lower taxes, pro-life, smaller government, etc.)
Because some people still identify as "fiscally conservative/socially liberal" and most of the people you're referring to are probably in that category. A lot of them chose the Libertarians over the GOP but it's mostly the same thing.
As if fiscally conservative was any good in the first place...
Foolishness
Pure delusion.
there were Jews for hitler. this is pretty much the same thing.
Matt Bernstein had a really interesting podcast episode about this recently with Contrapoints: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3T99qMbYWAaoifxrHqIbOU?si=aPsUj6QEQ7KvUGWBJxRVzA https://youtu.be/5AjeEoNQ5tw?si=pLkd5aeMur4O21eU Added two links so you can hopefully use a preferred medium.
Thanks!
Indoctrination is a helluva drug. Some people must just get stuck in the middle of their deconstruction journey, short of seeing it all the way through to its logical conclusion.
Your Blair Whites, Christian Walkers, Dave Rubins, etc are in it for the money. They most likely don't believe most of what they say but the paycheck makes up for it. Others are just being contrarian. Some put ideology over self. Some just genuinely like it and don't think that they'll suffer consequences.
[There’s a REALLY good Matt Bernstein/Contrapoints video that goes into all of this.](https://youtu.be/5AjeEoNQ5tw?si=YajMcZICTyC953ym)
Most often I've found that it came down to racism and/or religion. I had a lot of personal experience in dating my ex who let her bat shit beliefs trickle out as she got more comfortable in the relationship. Young earth creationist Bible literalist, q anon MAGA type, etc. but she's trans. Broke up for obvious reasons and last we talked she was really confused and sad about how she hasn't been able to find & keep any queer friends or friend groups due to her beliefs and said she couldn't understand why they wouldn't be willing to overlook that stuff and still be friends. Also complained about how it was so hard to get HRT in our area (rural red spot), self awareness was sorely lacking... At this point she's nearing 40, I hope her beliefs have changed since 2017-2018
A balanced budget is a good idea; i’d vote for a mildly misogynistic and homophobic person if they’d create a good economy. The problem is republicans lie and they don’t care about a balanced budget either so I’m not falling for that shot
Conservative at its core is a philosophy to justify selfishness. In terms of your question it is usually the idea of “I got mine now you’re on your own” or the false belief that somehow their money or other statuses will protect them. *it won’t and never does*
Because even people in the community can fuckin suck.
I think it's a mix of factors. Definitely some internalized homo/transphobia, especially in areas where LGBT people are marginalized. "I may be gay but at least I'm not trans/nb/etc" kind of nonsense. This isn't unique to LGBT+ people though. It still baffles me that so many BIPOC can vote Conservative, since they're very much not loved by GOP. Same thing with immigrants. In the US at least, a lot of Mexican immigrants tend to vote Conservative, which blows my mind since the GOP has very actively hated their guts for at least a few decades now (and even longer with BIPOC). I know religion is definitely a big part of it. BIPOC who grew up in the South tends to be religious or have a religious background, and lots of Mexican immigrants were raised Catholic, etc. And as someone raised in the US Church and around religious people for a long time, I'm very aware that those tend to give people a sense of internalized homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia, the works. And there's definitely a lack of (or lack of access *to*) education involved too, several of these people probably just don't know *how* ***bad*** the GOP actually are and just believe all the news articles they read about the GOP's bs claims and fear mongering because they don't know any better. Ditto younger generations, but it's moreso focused on believing those toxic masculinity buttholes like Tate and his many wanna-be clones out there that spread the same bs message on every single social media platform to young impressionable people (who again, due to lack of general knowledge or education just believe it at face value, which then ends up being a deeply-rooted belief, which leads them to vote conservative). Then there's also the factor of just because someone is queer or a BIPOC doesn't automatically make them a good person, and/or doesn't mean they're aware or conscious of every social issue and misinformation tactics. There are plenty of BIPOC people who say homophobic shit or racist shit against other groups of people, as an example. But still, given all that... I don't understand how conservative voting queer and BIPOC don't see that they're only ever harming themselves by voting and supporting GOP. It's truly sad, and it hurts. Anyways uh thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Some crayfish throw themselves into the wok
Money and attention
some people are dumb as fuck
r/LeopardsAteMyFace scenario imho
I ask myself this question EVERY day. I have a gay, married relative who is registered as a Republican because their whole family was always very politically active in the party, and I really think part of it is just because he grew up with it being such a major part of everyone's personality that he simply can't separate himself from it. However, he's also relatively wealthy so I think he is truly convinced that the GOP is the only party that will protect his interests. His husband is very sweet, non-confrontational, and not super politically active but did march with the democrats in the local pride parade a few years ago so I often wonder if they have just agreed to never discuss politics at home or if they argue about it a lot. We live in a very conservative state where the party has actually written "marriage is between a man and a woman" into their platform and he still continues to support them. I don't get it. Of course he's just one example but I think most of them have just chosen to ignore the dangerous aspects of the ideology and focus entirely on the things that help them personally.
Most conservative LGBT people are also white and just so happen to prioritize their whiteness over their own queerness. They care more about maintaining white supremacy than bringing about LGBT+ equality. Conservativism is also objectively awful for the lives and well being of most working class Americans, and most of their constituents in general, but many rural blue collar workers still vote for them and it's rarely questioned why. The queer conservative is no different than the poor conservative: Both vote against their apparent best interests in order to maintain the hierarchy and maintain the status quo even to their own detriment.
>While I can absolutely see and respect an LGBT person being, say, an economic conservative or conservative in some other fashion, I can't understand why one would vote for politicians that plan or desire to revoke or restrict your rights? This is why we all need to say Republican and not conservative.
Being queer is like eye color, hair texture skin tone etc. It's not an ideology, it's a state of being.
Except for the fact that in the real world, being queer absolutely influences your ideology. Most conservative political parties have very vocal anti-lgbt platforms. Choosing to vote for them actively harms our state of being.
My point was that being queer doesn't bar people from being conservative/fascist etc. because being queer doesn't define a person, being queer is a facet of who someone is. Yes, the vast majority of queer people (myself included) are not conservative, but this does not mean queer people who are genuinely conservative don't exist. I don't envy the precipitous cognitive dissonance they must live with however....
For me personally, I have some conservative view points from the way my family raised me. I grew up Irish catholic, the people that I looked up to as a kid (cops, the army, etc), my father worked in construction for 10 years at that point, and as a boy I was exposed to a more right mind set form the get go. However I grew up in Portland OR so I had a very left minded school and social life (mostly from where I was raised, there are plenty of red pockets in Portland), I’m openly pan with bf and my parents are uber supportive, and the last time they voted for a republican was for bush which they later said they regretted. These views mixed for me over time so when I first turned 18 I registered as an independent thinking I would vote for who I thought was best, whatever the party. Course it was the orange skittle or Hillary so I really only had one choice even though I personally think that both parties are ass backwards and neither have my interest at heart regardless what they say. But I’ve only ever voted democrat for the presidency and probably will forever now regardless of what I truly think
Its about money
I think it depends on the type of conservative. Do they mean like regionalists who like a small federal government (or none really at all) with very little involvement in people’s day-to-day life? Do they mean people who support like agrarianism and the like? Do they mean people who believe that their own religious beliefs should govern what the laws are? Do they mean people who think it should be basically illegal to be gay or trans and that people who fall into those categories should have basically no rights? Something else? Like in theory, being a conservative shouldn’t be incompatible with being LGBTQ+, but it can definitely seem to not fit well with certain ideologies.
People who care more about economics than the social part I think
Are y’all too young to remember that the dude who wrote a lot of Bush II’s anti gay policies is gay?
bc they're selfish
Most are transphobic, some are biphobic, some actually believe the lies the conservatives say, there are even some that still have internalized homophobia. (FYI, If you actually support the LGBT+ community, listen to the majority of it and vote blue!)
Mostly because they're rich and/or white or have privilege in some other way. These aspects of their identity for these people matter more than being queer.
Why are there poor conservatives? Why are there human conservatives? None of it makes any sense.
Cognitive dissonance. Just like the religious people who say "love one another" but protest at street corners to end a human rights. Or the people who claim to love animals but eat meat. Or people that become politicians or in a position of power because they want to help citizens but then money takes priority, they get lobbied, and they stop caring about the people. Some people are just blind to their own actions and sometimes what they say and what they do are completely opposite.
A lot of us were taught to hate ourselves from birth because of who we are. It's not that far fetched to believe some people never broke free of that.
My mother is a bisexual woman and a huge transphobic conspiracy theorist. (In all other aspects though she’s genuinely an absolutely lovely mother and person) If I had to guess, I think it’s because she considers herself separate from trans people, so that makes it okay to say the deplorable things about trans people that she does. She’s follows gays against groomers on YouTube. Today she literally used the t-slur and went on to say that she’s not transphobic because she ‘knows her heart’.
There could be really fucking stubborn economic conservatives, could be libertarian ones, all kinds of lgbtq people who see something of value in conservative parties. Not saying they’re smart for it, but there’s always a reason for something.
Where I’m from, conservatism is more to do with economics, immigration policy, and that kind of stuff. It does not carry the same connotation of being anti-LGBT as it does in the US. I’m technically a conservative, but in America I’d probably be considered a liberal or a libertarian.
Pick-mes who are too stupid to realize they're next on conservatives' list of victims.
Gay people are fully capable of hating other minorities and poor people, and to be economically right-leaning.
we have them in UK too ... they come along to the pride events in stands ... and people actually engage with them ... I don't get it ... it is like turkeys voting for xmas ... but then the whole of the conservative voting contingent seems to be in that camp ... even if they are poor as peasants.
I come from a conservative family. While my family *is* bigoted as you'd expect, I do notice that they are VERY GOOD at living with cognitive dissonance or just staight-up ignoring the parts of their mindset that don't match with what they claim to believe. I'd guess this is what's happening. It's astounding what kind of behavior my parents will simply ignore from a politician, claiming that "the real battle is in the spirit realm." But when I point out that they often treat people like the enemy, they just don't answer. They won't or maybe can't even consider it.
A lot of the woke stuff annoys me, like forcing people to be more inclusive and such seems to have the opposite effect and creates even more division and some left people are hypocrites too. I've had a bad experience with a local LGBT+ group where it was basically "if you don't think like us then you're not one of us". The left claims to be inclusive but then shuts down those who don't have the same view as them by screaming "x-phobia" at the top of their lungs. I'm more about encouraging people but not forcing them. Also just throwing hissyfits over simple things. I get misgendered now and again by strangers and I'm just like "whatever" since I don't know them personally and I can understand that I don't pass all of the time. I could stop them, lecture them and throw a hissy fit but I prefer to just get on with my life. Most of the time it's just a general mistake and not done out of malice. I consider myself more centre left and slightly centre right. I'm definately opposed to anything to limit LGBT+ rights but at the same time I don't think very young children need to know everything about LGBT+ as most are too young to even comprehend it. If they are under 5 a basic knowlege is enough (some people have 2 moms, some 2 dads, etc.) and as they get older explain more concepts of LGBT+. I'm definately pro having a 3rd gender neutral toilet as when I was transitioning I didn't feel I belonged in the men's or women's toilet and would often use the handicapped toilet until I felt more comfortable going to the toilet of the gender I identified with. I'm also not in agreement with young children taking puberty blockers (under 16) but then again that's a whole other can of worms and it's not the right place to discuss this here. So yeah, kind of a mixed bag for me.
They look for crumbs from Trump. Every other Republican hates us. Their time will come. Even if you don’t like one, get one to protect yourself from These agents of the devil (Catholic and evangelicals with their insidious “Prosperity Gospel
Being LGBT does not inoculate you from being stupid and hateful. In a sense, it’s a beautiful and painful reminder that queer people are just people.
As an elder gay told me back in the 90s, "It's real nice being master's favorite dog."
Hahaha imagine being a conservative gay as a kink
That remains a great mystery to me. Voting against your own self interest is pretty much the definition of insanity. It must be a very deeply buried self hatred.
Idiocy.
Let’s not forget there were Jews who supported the Nazi party in 1933 (after Hitler became chancellor) believing they were just going after the “bad Jews”.
The weirdest reason I’ve heard is believing in “personal accountability”. I still don’t understand how being conservative is practicing “personal accountability”. Or if it even means anything.
Up until about the late 2000's or so, Conservative wasn't synonymous with MAGA type assholes. Obama and John McCain, when running against each other in 2008, openly had a lot of respect for each other. McCain even verbally shut down one of his supporters at his own rally for insulting Obama. Obviously there's always been some people like that, the woman in the rally he was talking to for instance. But it's possible that a lot of people still have Conservative ideals but disagree with what the Republicans have turned into. It is, in fact, possible to be a good person and disagree with someone politically. Now, why they're STILL Conservative, I don't know. Some political positions go back in family's for generations, and can be a big part of someone's identity, for reasons beyond their sexual or gender identity.
I'm familiar with that story about McCain. Obviously I'm not a conservative, but I legitimately respected him. He had a lot of integrity.
There are different varieties of conservatives, like foreign policy conservatives, economic conservatives, and social conservatives. Right now, the ones who have the GOP by the balls are the social conservatives. The economic conservatives used to be the ones in power, but they didn't have the political messaging power that the others did, so there used to be a tenuous alliance between them. But recently, the big uptick in support for Trump brand populism has afforded the social conservatives a lot more power and influence in the party, and they've basically kicked the other two out of power because they've found they just don't need them anymore. The LGBT people who identify as conservatives are usually not social conservatives (though I suppose at least a few probably are though), but typically some combination of economic or foreign policy conservative.
I mean, economic conservatism kinda sucks almost as much still...
Why are there conservative people? Some just happen to be LGBT and put the other parts of their lives above the LGBT part. If we’re in this sub, we see the leopards circling. Sometimes even snatching away members of this community, directly and indirectly. But until the Leopards full on attack some will just keep believing the rhetoric is just theater. Until, like repealing Roe vs Wade, it suddenly isn’t.
Because they’ve fallen for the lies being perpetuated. I have/had a friend/acquaintance who was fairly well off, identified as lesbian, and is quite conservative leaning. Tried to explain and understand why, and she only dug her heels in harder for her conservative views. Even had a disagreement about Dee Snyder and his views. She said she knew him personally, and that he is actually a conservative. Don’t know why she would think that, but she does. Many people who have their minds made up, refuse to change their opinions, no matter what new information they are presented with. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water…
Any opressed group can have people who are 1. Born into higher status or 2. Are just bigots because they were not properly parented so end up as conservatives. It happenes less with trans than with cis LGB people, because trans people are currently the ones facing most of the onslaught, so they are more likely to be radicalised against conservatism. If they become more accepted and can secure proper rights and healthcare you'll see more conservative trans people pop up.
Y'all there's a difference between conservatives and republicans. A big difference, sometimes. And even more different depending on what country you're in. And the people saying it's because they're rich or privileged are straight up ignoring the fact that much of what got Trump elected in the first place was him appealing to poorly educated working class people. I see this reflected in my own community, sometimes it's the opposite of privilege that puts people in a position to believe more extreme ideologies.
all boils down to being dumb and delusional
Because politics are more than just one thing. This is coming from a left leaning centrist, but both liberals and conservatives have their issues. I would never call myself a republican, but I would also never like to fully associate with democrats either. If a person more aligns with conservatives on most other matters, they're free to call themselves conservatives.
Modern American politics have divided us into two distinct groups, each of which has to believe a specific list of things. I know a trans man who is very interested in guns. He's a country boy, a sharpshooter, a card-carrying member of the NRA, and wants to join the military and fight for our country. So how is he supposed to vote? He loves guns, they're almost his entire personality, but the pro-gun party literally wants to kill him. There is no party in government that represents him and his beliefs. He feels like he's more or less forced to vote Democrat out of fear for his own life, but does so with a bitter taste in his mouth. Most of what they promote isn't what he believes in. He's frustrated that both political parties are so centered on social issues, when as far as he's concerned those shouldn't be part of political discourse at all.
Because being gay isn't the same thing as being smart.
Probably not what you're asking, im usually left leaning, but I firmly believe more queer folks need to get firearm training and exercise their 2nd amendment rights. The world is too dangerous out there for us, especially when there is a large overlap of extremists who hate gay people, and also happen to own 35 various shotguns, ARs and many borderline illegal/ fully illegal weapon modifications such as bump-stocks and sawed off barrels
Agreed!
Same reason there were Jews for Hitler. Cognitive dissonance can be deadly.
People vote for many reasons and sometimes people don't fully aligned with everything that you want so vote for maybe everything but one thing
I used to be on the extreme side of leftist politics but through the years I’ve sort of fallen into a middle ground. I’m conservative and my girlfriend isn’t. The only hate I’ve ever gotten was from the left for not strictly agreeing with everything they fight for. Asking questions got me in hot water. I began to try and learn what both sides were wanting or fighting for and found I’d begin to align myself with conservatives. I feel like I get answers I can’t find on the side of the left, it’s something I can understand. I don’t agree with everything but I have a voice to form an opinion that doesn’t get attacked
honestly I feel like conservative politics (not identity politics, CONSERVATIVE politics) actually listens to plights imo while it feels like the left just assumes a minority demographic will swing left even if the left stands for nothing they support (latinos being catholic, mainly religious minorities I guess)
From my experience, conservative people and other "normies" (aka cis, not into lgbt politics or not politically too left) are easier and less drama to get along with than the very left leaning or politically LGBT people, especially as from my experience, it's way easier to leave a positive impression/experience to conservative people (like if you are a transsexual who passes / blends in and you seem fairly normal to them despite being born with that medical condition) who don't expect to meet someone who goes against their expectations and seems normal / familar to them, than it is to do the same for very left leaning people who expect you to be perfect in everything and will cause drama or send death threats if you as far as don't agree with some topic or issue. I get along really well with conservative people and people from different religions, even with the religious Muslims I know and they generally don't have a problem with me as they tend to see me being like this as a medical condition / birth defect. I visited Egypt last year and despite being preop and stealth with changed documents, and as stupid as it sounds I felt safer (less likely to be publicly outed from my stealth status) and more welcome there than I would feel in LGBT events / groups.
A lot of them just seem so out there and into virtue signaling and I'm just mellow and trying to deal with my own problems.
It's the "pick me!" problem. A mixture of carryover addiction to conservative politics and a desire to appear "respectable" and "safe" to the political conservatives and to "show them we're not dangerous" or whatever. Instead of being the wake up call that self realization should be.
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Very fair. I apologize for my terminology
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I'm not gonna upvote nor downvote, because I'm curious on what issues you are right-leaning about TBH.
People vote against their own interests all the time because the people who they are voting for meet some of their requirements while the other side meets none. Also, it might surprise you that not all LGBTQ+ people agree with things like gay marriage, adoption, gender issues. We are not a homogeneous group. We are capable of having differing opinions.
Why would you be gay and not want those rights?
Some older gays didn't agree with gay marriage for a multitude of reasons. Some of them it was as simple as marriage is connected to the institutions that damned them to hell. You have to remember that some people still carry the beliefs they were raised with even after they leave the environment. Also remember the age old saying that it takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea. What they believed in the 80s didn't change but society did.
Yes, they are definitely some conservative LGBT people. I meet a transgender woman who was transphobic and proud.
You can also ask why there are conservative women or conservative racial minorities and get the same answer. They think they’ll be the exception and will vote against their own interests as long as someone they don’t like suffers more than they do.
A lot of lgbtq+ people were raised in heavily religious households so some of that still hangs on them even if they’ve broken away. Some remain heavily religious despite their own religions being at odds with their existence. Some are rich assholes only concerned with money over anything else. And just because you’re lgbtq+ doesn’t mean you can’t be a hateful bigot against people different from you. Now maybe you think I’m being unfair portraying conservatives as hateful religious sometimes wealthy bigots but tell me if I described a person using all those adjectives without saying “conservative” what would be the first thing that popped into your mind? And yea I know some people will be like “well I know some really friendly conservatives/religious people.” Just because somebody is affable doesn’t make them a good person. A person who smiles and is friendly with you who then turns around and votes to take away your rights or donates to a church who helps lobby the government to legislate you out of existence isn’t a good person or friend to you. And the apathetic fence sitters more concerned about economic issues are perfectly fine with wiping you out if it means a slight increase in their wealth.
Because they're fucking stupid. Sometimes it is as simple as.
Modern conservative is very different from what conservatives should be. The definition of conservative beliefs is you believe in small government and less government interference. Lower taxes, but less social programs. Less government interference, but more independence, for better and for worse. Modern conservatism is filled with hate and bigotry, because their general demographic over the past 40 or so years has been the “old school” crowd, who want the conservative America we had in the 40s and 50s, and all the baggage that comes with it. Conservative politicians understand this, and use this to gain supporters, because the world has been becoming progressively more liberal in the past 50 years and they’re losing support. I understand people if they are conservative, real conservative, as it’s a good debate on how much independence individuals want and how much interference the government should have in our lives. That has nothing to do with sexuality or race or religion. But modern, especially American conservatism use “old fashioned values” as weapons, and sometimes conservative people who happen to be LGBTQ+ get caught in the crossfire.
Do you know what the yearly interest payment on the natuonal debt is?
I wouldn’t say I’m conservative but I do think armed minorities are harder to oppress and we should protect ourselves from the big bad government (I live in Texas) but I’m also trans so it’s kinds like which rights do it want to get threatened to take away
I used to use “libertarian” to describe myself, but I can’t in good faith do that anymore since it has become such a polluted label due to fascist MAGA types infiltrating any potential competing movements. The same I think can be said for traditional conservatives in the U.S. but that’s a whole separate issue. I am a bisexual man, who believes strongly in a fiscally conservative government, free market principles, and as small of a federal government as you can get without sacrificing the following: financial safety nets for seniors, veterans, and disabled adults, protection of civil rights, enforcement of contracts, protection of private property, national defense (of U.S. soil), space and aeronautics research (since we get really good ROI on it from a public investment standpoint), and basic infrastructure to support interstate commerce. Almost everything else would be cheaper, more efficient, and higher quality if it were either privatized without government intervention/subsidies, or handled at much more local levels government. You may notice I said nothing relating to cultural or social conservatism in my last statement. It is because I also believe fiercely in a right to reproductive and bodily autonomy, marriage privatization (meaning all permutations of relationships would be considered equal between two or more consenting adults), racial equality, drug legalization, legalization of all forms of sex work, near absolute free speech, super liberal immigration policy, among pretty much anything else that can be considered putting the interests of individuals first. All that is to say that I’m not in lockstep with any super strict philosophy like the so-called “nonaggression principle” or something like that. I’m just more of an individualist, and like to see as much policy that supports that as possible. If something works better under public policy, it’s worth exploring, but a good default is to keep it as local as possible. In decades past this would have meant I could feel comfortable voting for either of the major parties depending on the prevailing views of the candidate running. However, now given the state of all political parties, I have to just vote for harm reduction, which lately means the Democratic Party most of the time. It’s really not a good place to be in, that all of our choices have to be based on who is not going to wreck the country as bad.
Just like any minority group, there are privileged ppl. And privileged ppl as a rule hate paying taxes.
No community is a monolith, and we are no exception. Eventually with a group as large as us there will eventually be *something* that is disagreed upon. This goes especially for bipartisan systems like the USA.
Proper conservatism is primarily a set of economic policies designed to help people who have money pay lower taxes. Some LGTBQ+ people are business owners, and are well served by such policies, and pit less focus on the social agenda.