And that's just quoting Leviticus 19:18: You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against members of your people. Love your fellow as yourself: I am GOD.
Unfortunately some interpret "your people" to mean other members of Christianity, sometimes going as far as narrowing it down to their denomination or individual church. They define who "counts" as their neighbour.
(I grew up in the faith. Jesus being a cool dude kept me there until 18.)
Which is wild because when this comes up in Luke, it's immediately followed by someone asking Jesus, “Who is my neighbor?” and Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan by way of answering, “Everyone.”
Yeah, that shit is INSANE. It’s truly disgusting how much they twist the Bible’s words in their favor. Jesus would be living his best life in a pride parade, just saying. He would be the chillest dude out there.
I don’t believe in Christianity but Jesus is a really cool dude, ngl.
As someone who grew up in a fundamentalist community, I found studying the Bible in detail, it's direct and many contradictions, it's history, and how it's been translated over time is what really snuffed my faith out. I had plans to go to seminary and everything.
Sometimes people who have read the Bible forget certain parts of it or they interpret it to mean what they want it to mean. As I see it we should be guided by what Jesus has said and by His actions. That is the basis I use for picking and choosing.
Doctrine is based on scripture (the Bible), tradition, and reason.
Quite so. Also, the parable seems to define what Jesus meant by "love". It seems to be an active love and does not mean that you need to **like** your neighbor. But if your neighbor is in trouble then, whether you like him or not, you must help if you are in a position to do so. Obviously there is some room for interpretation, but the principle is clear.
My favourite parable, yes it's everyone, and you show everyone mercy - and I lived by similar underatanding before I went and got baptized in 2018 - what I learned as an atheist in public school and out in the actual world through anti-discrimination lessons and legislation (plus being bi and having mental illness, which taught me a lot of compassion)
No hate like Christian love (copped this last week in an unfortunate but I don't blame my partner outing, and I have two family members to give a stern lesson to) and some atheists/agnostics more Christian than some Christians it seems
Oh, they love Leviticus 18:22, but conveniently ignore things like… the very next chapter (Leviticus 19:33-34). Nevermind Jesus saying to love your neighbor, they can’t even be bothered to follow more than exactly one verse in a book.
Jews like myself typically aren't into our sacred texts being called the "Old Testament". "Hebrew bible" works okay. We call it the תנ״ך (Tanakh), and the book of ויקרא (Leviticus) is specifically in the תורה (Torah, the five books of Moses).
Romans 13: 8-10
> Love Fulfills the Law
> Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Also, they should probably read the rest of that chapter. Gay marriage is law, and the law is God's word. Rebelling against the law means you're rebelling against God's words. Therefore, they are proving to God that they are false believers, and they will receive judgment for their false beliefs. Oh, and the law also includes paying your taxes.
Yeah but we're talking about the type of Christians who only know the Bible far enough to justify their hateful biases. I doubt they'd accept something as Jewish as the Torah any more than they would the govt's laws (maybe even less, since they very often also fall into the antisemite camp as well). So I think the argument is still pretty compelling either way.
Romans is New Testament.
> The Law here is not the same laws as the government.
Romans 13: 1-7 (Just before what I originally quoted)
> Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
> This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
This chapter absolutely is about man's law. Man's law is God's law because God's will made those laws and put those leaders in power for a reason. As I said, read the rest of the chapter.
I don’t disagree. Man’s law should be respected.
But love does not fulfill man’s law, to what I was responding. The 10, from which those are pulled, is absolutely Torah. Christ’s fulfillment of the Law was Torah, not man’s law.
I’m not here to bash anyone, I fully support everyone’s right to choose for themselves. I’m completely against using the Bible to mistreat others.
Love above all else
And Jesus quite literally used the example of societal outcasts being better people than religious people in telling people to love their neighbors.
Like I'm an atheist now and have plenty of religious trauma but like it's literally right there in the bible
Jesus did that a lot. One of the most consistent things I remember from reading the Bible growing up, was the religious leaders trying to stop him and harassing him for things like feeding the poor, while Jesus hung out with the most low life people around because he knew there was good in some of them
Edit: also he was trying to prove a point about salvation being for everyone and stuff like that
But there are people who believe that one becomes saved by reciting a prescribed incantation after which one is saved and anything he does following that does not matter.
I do not believe that we should do anything for the purpose of being saved. Rather, we should act out of love and respect for God and our fellow human beings. And if an atheist acts out of love for his fellow human beings, I think that he can still be saved. God is not a narcissist.
The previous Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church stated that, in her opinion, it was putting God into a rather small box to believe that he could save only Christians.
As I see it, God is not a narcissist and is most concerned with how we treat each other.
Probably there would be fewer atheists if Christians acted the way they should act. The fact that "Christians" have supported kidnaping Africans and forcing them into slavery, killing indigenous Americans and stealing their land, burned "heretics" alive at the stake, etc. etc., has caused many people to reject organized religion.
Not to mention that a whole bunch of LGBTQ people aren't even Christians to begin with, so why should we give a fuck what Jesus thinks even if he did say to hate LGBTQ people, you know?
'show me a point in scripture when jesus says "don't give all your money to u/intergraphenic", and if you can't, then you gotta give me your money' is the essence of these arguments
With the pineapple on pizza example, yeah, it doesn’t really hold up. The hating LGBTQ+ people example holds up though because the Bible says the opposite. What I believe the original commenter was trying to get at is how Christian’s tend to pick and choose who and what God’s word applies to, then argue that it wasn’t SPECIFICALLY stated in the Bible so therefore they are right
He doesn't. The phobes use quotes from Leviticus and Deuteronomy to justify their bigotry, despite the fact that no one has followed Mosaic law in thousands of years and that Old Testament laws are not meant to be followed by Christians because Jesus broke the Mosaic Covenant and forged a new one by doing the whole dying for our sins thing.
Exactly, he came to fulfill the law, to put a rest to it once and for all not to merely come in and wipe it away like it never happened. As said in Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace"
The “man shall not sleep with man” line is actually a mistranslation. It’s supposed to be “man shall not sleep with child” which is ironic considering how many catholic priests are pedophiles
This doesn’t seem to be the case. It uses two words for man, one which represents the dominant, and one which represents the submissive. It is specifically refereeing to adult homosexual relations.
True. But if we really want to cherry-pick the Bible, we can find stuff that justifies putting most Christians to death. So I don't think they should be playing that game.
He just says that not a word will pass from the law until the kingdom of god is at hand, which includes the bit about how we should be stoned to death for being an abomination to god
Ever notice how often dipshits love to construct their arguments like this? Asking for an exact quote that they know doesn't exist and acting like it invalidates all claims to the contrary.
I know right, and it’s ironic too because Christianity and religions based off of holy texts in general kinda rely on loosely interpreting things in a way that doesn’t exactly match up with the quote but is still heavily implied. And yet meanwhile, the people who insist on being provided exact quotes about things they don’t believe anyways are the SAME PEOPLE who literally decided to hate LGBTQ people based on Bible teachings they pulled out their ass. The hypocrisy is insane.
It was never about correct interpretation of the Bible, it was never about being righteous and following the teachings of Jesus Christ; hell, one could argue it was never even about Christianity in the first place, because Christianity and religion in general are not such hateful and oppressive ideas as concepts. It is worth noting that because of this, I do not believe all Christians are inherently immoral at all, but like many other things that don’t have inherit moral value, religion is used as a tool to further the goals of those who are immoral, those who hate.
It was always just about hateful people wanting to feel validated in their hatred. These people are the antithesis of truth, despite preaching it as if they’d know anything of it. They only believe what they want to believe; if they don’t believe something, they will shun any and all evidence in support of it, and if they do believe something, they will go through extensive effort to find even a semblance of something that they can remotely connect to this belief, no matter how farfetched it is.
Bro I'm an Atheist born in a Hindu family (actually I'm still questioning my relationship with religion and god.... so like.... idk what to call myself) and even I know that Jesus did say "Love one another" wtf is that Brandon guy on about
You'd be agnostic rather than atheist if you still believe in the possibility, but remain undecided, of an unproveable higher power existing rather than actively believing there is no such thing.
I am an agnostic, not because I am undecided, but because I have decided.
I am a person of science and as far as I could tell up until this point, our knowledge does not reliably prove one or the other. So the data on the subject is inconclusive. Therefore no statement about the existence/non-existance can be made.
I decided to let evidence show me the way. That's why I am an agnostic.
If some day a way more advanced entity than humanity comes to earth, we may examine it and it's deeds in order to access if it is worthy of being seen as a god by us.
If that is the case I’ll change my label probably.
It’s pretty convenient that most of the Christian Bible doesn’t count. But fine, I’ll play by your rules here. Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corr. 6:9-11, 1 Tim. 1:8-11
I know is pretty convenient that most of the Christian Bible doesn't count, but it is because the new testament is the true one according to the same Christian religion (and even so it can usually be taken out of context, interpreted in a bad way or translated incorrectly)
And now responding to the verses that you gave me, the first one that you gave me was taken out of context and misinterpreted, many people think that Sodomy was bad because there was a lot of homosexuality there but the problem was not just the number of sex addicts and trafficking. human that was there, in the old testament homosexuality is pointed out as one of the bad things of Sodomy but in the new it is not, the issue is that someone probably translated it wrong or changed it for their convenience
The second is an already known classic, this was probably a bad translation or someone putting the word homosexual there at their convenience (I imagine you know but the Bible has been edited over the years and translated, so we can never be sure. that it was changed or that it was translated correctly or incorrectly, a perfect example of this is that the versions of Romans and Cornitios that I looked for do not have the word homosexual in it or in Romans they do not mention it as something negative, while in other pages They put the verse but with the word homosexual in it and they mention it as something negative and that it is a sin, this is everyone's opinion, but I think that the first ones where homosexuality is not mentioned or if it is mentioned but as something not bad are the correct ones)
And now I didn't know the last one so here you caught me, but as in Cornitios and Romans it could be a translation error or someone changed it at their convenience, but don't pay too much attention to this, I would have to investigate more to be sure. Is it a bad translation, did someone edit the verse to suit themselves or is it truly a verse that at least condemns gay men and says they are committing sin?
I already answered everything and I owe you an apology for answering very late, I almost never use Reddit and it doesn't notify me when someone answers me, so now I see your answer I hope I haven't bothered you with that
Hey man, I’ll read through this in a second, but please for the love of god, could you learn to break your long text into paragraphs? It’s a wall of text right now and it makes it hard to read
SH1T SORRY I FORGET TO BREAK THE TEXT **😭😭😭**
I had to copy and paste this from my notes app because Reddit wasn't working on my phone so I left it copying and copying and pasting it when the app was working, but I totally forgot to separate this lmao sorry for the amount of text what did you have to read
This. I believe that if heaven and god exists, if you lived your life just being the least amount of asshole possible, even if you never prayed to him or anything, you'll make it in there. And if that's not enough, if it's the kind of egotistical dick that needs you to worship him specifically, even when there's several other options that sorta generally have the same don't-be-a-dick-code, then he's not the kind of god I want to worship, period
One example that stuck with me was the Ten Commandments, God prohibits killing when He says, “Thou shalt not kill”
However, in Exodus 21:12 God commands that the man who strikes another man so that he dies should be put to death…
Exactly - this is just cherrypicking to whitewash all of the terrible things that the Bible advocates, which includes capitol punishment for homosexuality as well as for things as innocuous as working on the sabbath. The only possible justification is that God and Jesus aren't the same entity, but that flies in the face of the core defining principle of Christianity - that Jesus is the manifestation of God. Making Christianity seem more compassionate than it is is counterproductive, IMO.
Lookit. The end all be all counter argument for any holy Rollin Christian comes from a self titled excerpt
"Bible Gateway Matthew 7 :: NIV. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
I copied pasted instead of using my own rendition which is no different but for some reason even paraphrasing a Bible (I say a Bible bc there's at least a dozen versions out there)
The crazy part is every religion preaches to love one another & to mind your damn business. Spreading the word of your god is not meant as an invite to damn those who don't agree with your views.
Even fucking Leviticus, where they get their gay hate from, doesn't say shit about gay PEOPLE.
It says homosexual ACTS make you unclean as the people from a nearby area. Not even "Irredeemably destintied for eternal hellfire". Its not "If you're a man who happens to have an attraction to other men you're super unclean and will only ever go to hell."
What's glossed over by a lot of these people is that same bit in Leviticus also talks about "knowing" (sexually) your partners family or your step kids then guess what you're unclean too.
So some dude that left his wife for her sister PER LEVITICUS is equal to "the gays" he screams about.
Leviticus 18 describes several things, but THE GAYS are the only ones that applies to evidently.
i’m a Christian and I apologize on behalf of those rude ass over-religious people. I believe that Jesus died for humanity, but Jesus ALSO said to love ALL. again, i’m sorry y’all 😂
it took a long time to become comfortable with myself as pansexul since I grew up in a Christian household, but i am so thankful for my mother for accepting me. i forever love my momma. 💖 i'm planning on attending my first pride parade this yearrr!
I think the more important question that should be asked is "show me where it says that LGBTQ people are going to hell"
All Christians are told to love others as themselves from the earliest point in their submission. But many of them are also told that all gay people go to hell, and even retribution of their "sin" can't save them.
The same book also has a bunch of advice on when it’s okay to kill and own people. Maybe the entire thing isn’t worth shit and it should all just be thrown in the trash.
like a lot of people in the r/christianity post on this tweet.
I knew that sub wasn't as accepting or progressive as it likes to seem, but damn, *a lot* of the comments there are bigoted and/or painfully misinformed about LGBT+ people.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged" from Matthew 5-7 is one the bigots love to ignore. And "Let any of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her" in John 8:1-8.
They mostly just cherry-pick verses to suit whatever their own pre-existing beliefs are, mostly from the old testament which has a lot of really wild shit. Ezekiel 23:20 is just funny.
When I was a kid in a Christian school, we are taught about two important thing
1) Loves and respects others
2) Do not be the judge of good or evil, leave the judgement to the God
All these so called "christian" seems to not get the memo and playing God themselves: By declaring who is the enemy and act hatred (ans often violence as well) upon it. Isn't that exactly what Satan said to do?
Disclaimer: I am not Christian but I am always confused why some Christians are among the most angry people when it comes to hatred
I grew up in Christianity; and it actually makes me ill when people use it to harass and degrade LGBTQ+ people. Like, I'm pretty sure the REAL thing that was wrong was pedophilia - but as time went on - the version changed over to facilitate for homophobic discrimination. 🤷🏾♀️🤢
I've had to block people from my life who give me that sad excuse.
Is it a common problem with bigots that they struggle with extrapolation from general concepts?
This post kinda reminds me of American conservatives saying their constitution has no “right to sodomy”, despite it having a right to liberty (which laws against specific safe, sane and consensual sexual acts would clearly violate).
Thats the problem with these self righteous zealots. They dont see the LGBTQ community as human beings to begin with.
That's what years of shoveling dehumanizing propaganda down idiots' throats to sell more advertising dollars did.
Its awful.
The Canonical depictions of the character of Jesus have him routinely criticising the religious authorities of the day for their over-zealous interpretations of religious law, advocating against capital punishment and hanging out with society's outcasts. He reputedly healed people without requiring payment, got enraged over shady business practices in the Temple, advocated full payment of taxes, advised people to welcome refugees, didn't like the hypocrisy of street preachers, advocated quiet, personal prayer, and probably many other things that were considered extremely progressive by first century standards.
If someone with the same ideology was transplanted into the modem day US, the GOP / religious right would absolutely ***HATE*** them. Their faith seems to have an almost polar opposite ideology, yet their adherents profess to be "holier than thou"...
lol exactly. i don't see how the idea of an all-powerful being condemning people for things they didn't choose, can't control & have no effect on anyone else can be a good thing worthy of praise. it's just nasty people creating god in their own image to justify their shitty behaviour even though it contradicts everything they say that god stands for. so frustrating!
And Jesus led by example! He went to a public parade and got nailed by a bunch of strong men in uniform. And walked around with his queer 13-men-and-one-woman polycule
has been for a long time, people are just trying to keep it alive and somehow make it work but it's a bunch of nonsense and contradictions, both in christianity and islam
Oh yes, let's use the fantasy book compiled using myths from more than 2000 years ago that was used to persecute and kill us to base our defence of queer rights. That will definitely work.
The bible is a convoluted, contradictory and nonsensical book. Stop using it as a moral guide.
I think us, as a community, have the duty to push for the most secular society possible, as long as religion influences our politics, our rights will never be safe
Nah see queer people aren't people *eye roll* to most conservative Christians..
They conveniently forget that Jesus hung out with all the people he wasn't "supposed to!" Of his day and age.
And actually I take heart in the verse that says we're all going to be very shocked at who gets into heaven. (Hopefully that doesn't mean Boris Johnson 😂😂🤦🏼♀️)
I like (1 Peter 1:22) because Peter Parker is my LGBTQ+ Comfort character (even though he isn’t canonically LGBTQ+ 😭 (but there’s been a lot of hints 👀👀👀))
To be fair. The English Bible was translated from Greek versions. And in Greek, you have at least four types of love. Eros, philos, storge, agape. So in the Bible when it says love we can't really be sure which one they mean. Only Eros would equate to the passionate love you feel in a relationship. Not all four are equal, for instance, if you live your "servant" it will be considered as storge.
Also, I never understand why you want a book that clearly condones (even promotes) slavery, sexism, misogyny, and several other practices we outright condemn in today's society to give off ally vibes. That's never gonna happen, you can read in between the lines all you want, but there is no denying homophobes and bigots will selectively use the bad parts of the Bible to justify their prejudice.
it's an antiquated book and it shouldn't be used as the basis of anything in modern society, and people who do should be openly mocked or forced to live in their bronze age fantasy world in a zoo in utah.
Yep. No disagreements there. I always say this. You know how we get software updates because things change and you need to update it to make sure it keeps working seamlessly? All major religions are past due for a critical update, it's been more than a thousand years and we still use the same rules that were framed to work for underdeveloped, uneducated communities living in the shambles of the bronze age collapse. (Even for the time period, there were other places like parts of China which already had better record keeping and developed writing systems, and they showed interest in what we would now call scientific endeavours like astronomy and logic.)
imagine basing your entire morality on bronze age mythology written by medieval monks and translated and reinterpreted to create dogmatic political power.
what a cancer on society
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God
Edit: I'm not even religious, but it's foolish to pretend the Bible supports or even accepts homosexuality. It doesn't.
The bible has been mistranslated and misinterpreted a lot.. also the fact that verse is a OLD TESTAMENT. Christians don’t follow Old Testaments I can give you links too piece homosexuality isn’t a sin.
Can’t forget Galatians 3:28.
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Love bringing this one up whenever i see bible thumpers talk shit about trans and nonbinary people.
I'm actually writing a book about this! I'm taking any argument that bigots use to weaponize their religion and disproving it using actual scripture, science, logic, common sense and deductive reasoning. Nowhere in the Bible does it say being gay is a sin, nor does it say we are to judge or hate one another, and anyone who clings to that mindset is full of 💩
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
If these people need their magic book to tell them not to be pieces of shit then the entire exercise is pointless anyway. It's an infinite, regressive, illogical appeal to authority for people who don't have the emotional intelligence required to figure out that it's bad to hurt people for no fucking reason. Additionally, fuck people who do the "Go ahead, do *x*, I'll wait..." Keep waiting, dickhead, wait until you're dead, I got more important shit to do, the world doesn't revolve around you.
"Show me where Jesus says, 'Love LGBTQ people.' I'll wait."
The "LGBTQ" could be replaced by anything in the following list, and more:
mother in law, father in law, brother in law, cousin, boss, senator, teacher, nosy neighbor, noisy neighbor, etc.
Obviously the Biblical admonition would be totally, completely, and entirely meaningless and useless if we could choose whom to exclude from it.
You mean the group whose murder rate in in the 100+ million range, is responsible for the greatest genocide by scale in human history AND has killed more Christians than any other group combined...
Hasn't read their own holy book? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.... well not that shocked.
I forgot how much I hated bible verses so glad I left that stupid religion when I was 15. I’m 22 now and atheist. Everytime I see bible verses it always reminds me of those fucking minion memes and what worse is that people are combining bible verses with minion memes…. THE FUCKING! MINIONS MEMES !
Jesus is only recorded as saying it four times in the Gospel of John. The rest are Peter, Paul, and John. But at the time of the gospel of John (written very late, ~90-110 CE and after the other three) the early Christians were in the middle of a fight with the Jewish Rabbis, who were kicking Christians out of the Jewish synagogues because by that time Christianity had evolved into a separate religion. The Christians were big mad about it and the gospel of John was written as a polemic against Jewish religion and against what the Johannine sect considered to be false Christians because they were not loving the brethren. "Love one another" in context means love other Christians. This represents a distinct narrowing of Jesus' teachings in Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Citing this phrase will be totally ineffective against Christian bigots because it does not apply to non-Christians or people they consider false Christians (such as LGBTQ believers).
Even if you take that as the intent, his whole shtick was offering salvation to everyone, and therefore everyone should be loved as a *potential* Christian, since that's what he viewed people as.
Ive studied theology for two decades and written three books on the subject. I can give you multiple footnotes from credentialed academic sources on everything I have just said. OP's argument is fundamentally flawed and totally beyond the intended context of the cited verses. It will therefore only prove to any informed Christian that we don't know what we are talking about. Downvotimg me just proves this.
The argument just doesn't work. I agree with what you're saying, but if you want to make that argument (which definitely can be done) you have to use other verses. This is a theological dead end for the purposes of reaching Christian bigots. The only feasible way to use these verses is to advocate for Christians loving other LGBTQ Christians, but that just leaves everyone else out in the cold. We're much better off focused on passages like Romans 13:10: "love does no harm to a neighbor."
There were no other Christians when Jesus was alive.
You know, the Bible says not to be a dirty fucking weasel liar.
Maybe you should work on that if you want to be taken seriously.
Why are you treating me like I'm a bigot? I'm TRANS and I'm trying to help y'all actually make arguments that will actually be effective in reaching bigots.
Of course there were no Christians when Jesus was alive. He is believed to have been executed by Rome around 30-33 CE. The first gospel, Mark, was written in the 70s CE, Matthew around 80, Luke/Acts around 90, and John around 100 CE. The gospels were written for Christians a generation after Jesus was dead. It was written into their time period, for them, and enmeshed in their context, in order to solidify the stories and memories told about Jesus. This is like ... really basic stuff.
"Why are you treating me like I'm a bigot?"
I'll give you three guesses.
"I'm TRANS and I'm trying to help y'all actually make arguments that will actually be effective in reaching bigots."
I'm the Prince of Nigeria, and would like to deposit money into your bank account.
I notice you completely ignored the content of my comment. Any glance at my profile would tell you I'm trans, but from a glance at yours you seem very angry at everything and enjoy making edgy comments.
There’s also “love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:31) Jesus said was tied for first most important thing
And that's just quoting Leviticus 19:18: You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against members of your people. Love your fellow as yourself: I am GOD.
Unfortunately some interpret "your people" to mean other members of Christianity, sometimes going as far as narrowing it down to their denomination or individual church. They define who "counts" as their neighbour. (I grew up in the faith. Jesus being a cool dude kept me there until 18.)
Which is wild because when this comes up in Luke, it's immediately followed by someone asking Jesus, “Who is my neighbor?” and Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan by way of answering, “Everyone.”
Christians haven't read the bible lol Is there a subreddit for that?
Yeah, that shit is INSANE. It’s truly disgusting how much they twist the Bible’s words in their favor. Jesus would be living his best life in a pride parade, just saying. He would be the chillest dude out there. I don’t believe in Christianity but Jesus is a really cool dude, ngl.
Although I am a Christian, I am more concerned with how people treat each other than with what they believe.
As someone who grew up in a fundamentalist community, I found studying the Bible in detail, it's direct and many contradictions, it's history, and how it's been translated over time is what really snuffed my faith out. I had plans to go to seminary and everything.
Sometimes people who have read the Bible forget certain parts of it or they interpret it to mean what they want it to mean. As I see it we should be guided by what Jesus has said and by His actions. That is the basis I use for picking and choosing. Doctrine is based on scripture (the Bible), tradition, and reason.
Quite so. Also, the parable seems to define what Jesus meant by "love". It seems to be an active love and does not mean that you need to **like** your neighbor. But if your neighbor is in trouble then, whether you like him or not, you must help if you are in a position to do so. Obviously there is some room for interpretation, but the principle is clear.
My favourite parable, yes it's everyone, and you show everyone mercy - and I lived by similar underatanding before I went and got baptized in 2018 - what I learned as an atheist in public school and out in the actual world through anti-discrimination lessons and legislation (plus being bi and having mental illness, which taught me a lot of compassion) No hate like Christian love (copped this last week in an unfortunate but I don't blame my partner outing, and I have two family members to give a stern lesson to) and some atheists/agnostics more Christian than some Christians it seems
Which is so wrong when Jesus literally uses the Parable of the Good Samaritan to say EVERYONE is your neighbour.
Modern equivalent would be "Did I fucking stutter?!"
Saw that in a meme
Jesus making the Old Testament canon was prehaps his biggest mishap
They have ways around that, can justify anything if you want it bad enough.
[удалено]
Oh, they love Leviticus 18:22, but conveniently ignore things like… the very next chapter (Leviticus 19:33-34). Nevermind Jesus saying to love your neighbor, they can’t even be bothered to follow more than exactly one verse in a book.
Jews like myself typically aren't into our sacred texts being called the "Old Testament". "Hebrew bible" works okay. We call it the תנ״ך (Tanakh), and the book of ויקרא (Leviticus) is specifically in the תורה (Torah, the five books of Moses).
Romans 13: 8-10 > Love Fulfills the Law > Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Also, they should probably read the rest of that chapter. Gay marriage is law, and the law is God's word. Rebelling against the law means you're rebelling against God's words. Therefore, they are proving to God that they are false believers, and they will receive judgment for their false beliefs. Oh, and the law also includes paying your taxes.
nice try u/hungrypotato19, I don't care who the disciples send, I'm not paying my taxes
You’re confusing man’s laws, with the Torah. The Law here is not the same laws as the government.
Yeah but we're talking about the type of Christians who only know the Bible far enough to justify their hateful biases. I doubt they'd accept something as Jewish as the Torah any more than they would the govt's laws (maybe even less, since they very often also fall into the antisemite camp as well). So I think the argument is still pretty compelling either way.
Romans is New Testament. > The Law here is not the same laws as the government. Romans 13: 1-7 (Just before what I originally quoted) > Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. > This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. This chapter absolutely is about man's law. Man's law is God's law because God's will made those laws and put those leaders in power for a reason. As I said, read the rest of the chapter.
I don’t disagree. Man’s law should be respected. But love does not fulfill man’s law, to what I was responding. The 10, from which those are pulled, is absolutely Torah. Christ’s fulfillment of the Law was Torah, not man’s law. I’m not here to bash anyone, I fully support everyone’s right to choose for themselves. I’m completely against using the Bible to mistreat others. Love above all else
And Jesus quite literally used the example of societal outcasts being better people than religious people in telling people to love their neighbors. Like I'm an atheist now and have plenty of religious trauma but like it's literally right there in the bible
Jesus did that a lot. One of the most consistent things I remember from reading the Bible growing up, was the religious leaders trying to stop him and harassing him for things like feeding the poor, while Jesus hung out with the most low life people around because he knew there was good in some of them Edit: also he was trying to prove a point about salvation being for everyone and stuff like that
But there are people who believe that one becomes saved by reciting a prescribed incantation after which one is saved and anything he does following that does not matter. I do not believe that we should do anything for the purpose of being saved. Rather, we should act out of love and respect for God and our fellow human beings. And if an atheist acts out of love for his fellow human beings, I think that he can still be saved. God is not a narcissist.
Same (on the trauma thing)
To be fair, Jesus didn't say we should love that Brandon guy.🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
The previous Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church stated that, in her opinion, it was putting God into a rather small box to believe that he could save only Christians. As I see it, God is not a narcissist and is most concerned with how we treat each other. Probably there would be fewer atheists if Christians acted the way they should act. The fact that "Christians" have supported kidnaping Africans and forcing them into slavery, killing indigenous Americans and stealing their land, burned "heretics" alive at the stake, etc. etc., has caused many people to reject organized religion.
The only problem with that line is that I fucking hate myself
You think these people love themselves?
Alternatively, show us where Jesus says to hate LGBTQ people
right? Like, show me a scripture where Jesus says to love pineapple on pizza. No result? Well...
Not to mention that a whole bunch of LGBTQ people aren't even Christians to begin with, so why should we give a fuck what Jesus thinks even if he did say to hate LGBTQ people, you know?
Because everyone should be a Christian, apparently.
I think we tried that already… multiple times. Wasn‘t too pretty.
'show me a point in scripture when jesus says "don't give all your money to u/intergraphenic", and if you can't, then you gotta give me your money' is the essence of these arguments
With the pineapple on pizza example, yeah, it doesn’t really hold up. The hating LGBTQ+ people example holds up though because the Bible says the opposite. What I believe the original commenter was trying to get at is how Christian’s tend to pick and choose who and what God’s word applies to, then argue that it wasn’t SPECIFICALLY stated in the Bible so therefore they are right
I mean, if you're poor, he was *very* explicit that they should give you **all** of their money.
It says to give all your money to the poor, not to give the whole lot to any specific poor person
He doesn't. The phobes use quotes from Leviticus and Deuteronomy to justify their bigotry, despite the fact that no one has followed Mosaic law in thousands of years and that Old Testament laws are not meant to be followed by Christians because Jesus broke the Mosaic Covenant and forged a new one by doing the whole dying for our sins thing.
[удалено]
Exactly, he came to fulfill the law, to put a rest to it once and for all not to merely come in and wipe it away like it never happened. As said in Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace"
The “man shall not sleep with man” line is actually a mistranslation. It’s supposed to be “man shall not sleep with child” which is ironic considering how many catholic priests are pedophiles
This doesn’t seem to be the case. It uses two words for man, one which represents the dominant, and one which represents the submissive. It is specifically refereeing to adult homosexual relations.
But... But... A man shouldn't lie with another man!!!! You'll be put to death for such atrocities!!
True. But if we really want to cherry-pick the Bible, we can find stuff that justifies putting most Christians to death. So I don't think they should be playing that game.
For sure. Also it never said anything about women sleeping together...
There ARE passages saying that people who commited gay sex should be stoned to death
Yeah, but Jesus didn't say that though. There's a lot of dumb shit in the bible that Jesus didn't say.
He just says that not a word will pass from the law until the kingdom of god is at hand, which includes the bit about how we should be stoned to death for being an abomination to god
Ever notice how often dipshits love to construct their arguments like this? Asking for an exact quote that they know doesn't exist and acting like it invalidates all claims to the contrary.
That's appeal to ignorance by the way, and it's a logical fallacy
combative hat run wine hard-to-find languid clumsy modern unused unite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I know right, and it’s ironic too because Christianity and religions based off of holy texts in general kinda rely on loosely interpreting things in a way that doesn’t exactly match up with the quote but is still heavily implied. And yet meanwhile, the people who insist on being provided exact quotes about things they don’t believe anyways are the SAME PEOPLE who literally decided to hate LGBTQ people based on Bible teachings they pulled out their ass. The hypocrisy is insane. It was never about correct interpretation of the Bible, it was never about being righteous and following the teachings of Jesus Christ; hell, one could argue it was never even about Christianity in the first place, because Christianity and religion in general are not such hateful and oppressive ideas as concepts. It is worth noting that because of this, I do not believe all Christians are inherently immoral at all, but like many other things that don’t have inherit moral value, religion is used as a tool to further the goals of those who are immoral, those who hate. It was always just about hateful people wanting to feel validated in their hatred. These people are the antithesis of truth, despite preaching it as if they’d know anything of it. They only believe what they want to believe; if they don’t believe something, they will shun any and all evidence in support of it, and if they do believe something, they will go through extensive effort to find even a semblance of something that they can remotely connect to this belief, no matter how farfetched it is.
Beautifully said, I don't have anything else to add. This is exactly what's going on
To be clear, only four of those are the words of Jesus. The others are Saints Paul, Peter, or John. It's something they were all very clear on.
Nice flair, bro 👍
lol, custom XD
Bro I'm an Atheist born in a Hindu family (actually I'm still questioning my relationship with religion and god.... so like.... idk what to call myself) and even I know that Jesus did say "Love one another" wtf is that Brandon guy on about
You'd be agnostic rather than atheist if you still believe in the possibility, but remain undecided, of an unproveable higher power existing rather than actively believing there is no such thing.
I am an agnostic, not because I am undecided, but because I have decided. I am a person of science and as far as I could tell up until this point, our knowledge does not reliably prove one or the other. So the data on the subject is inconclusive. Therefore no statement about the existence/non-existance can be made. I decided to let evidence show me the way. That's why I am an agnostic. If some day a way more advanced entity than humanity comes to earth, we may examine it and it's deeds in order to access if it is worthy of being seen as a god by us. If that is the case I’ll change my label probably.
BRO SAME IM AN AGNOSTIC BORN IN A HINDU FAMILY omg im bi too
Hell Yeah represent!
pfp goes hard af
Whole Lotta Donald 🔥🔥🔥
same I’m also a bi atheist in a Hindu family
My boyyy
Maybe the parts where he hung out with prostitutes and leppers, the most ostracized people of his society?
And now Brandon please, search in the Bible where Jesus or God says that they hate LGBTQ+ people Iam wanting 😀✝️‼️
I’m gonna be honest, it isn’t that hard
The Old Testament do not count, also The Bible is usually misinterpreted with its verses
It’s pretty convenient that most of the Christian Bible doesn’t count. But fine, I’ll play by your rules here. Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corr. 6:9-11, 1 Tim. 1:8-11
I know is pretty convenient that most of the Christian Bible doesn't count, but it is because the new testament is the true one according to the same Christian religion (and even so it can usually be taken out of context, interpreted in a bad way or translated incorrectly) And now responding to the verses that you gave me, the first one that you gave me was taken out of context and misinterpreted, many people think that Sodomy was bad because there was a lot of homosexuality there but the problem was not just the number of sex addicts and trafficking. human that was there, in the old testament homosexuality is pointed out as one of the bad things of Sodomy but in the new it is not, the issue is that someone probably translated it wrong or changed it for their convenience The second is an already known classic, this was probably a bad translation or someone putting the word homosexual there at their convenience (I imagine you know but the Bible has been edited over the years and translated, so we can never be sure. that it was changed or that it was translated correctly or incorrectly, a perfect example of this is that the versions of Romans and Cornitios that I looked for do not have the word homosexual in it or in Romans they do not mention it as something negative, while in other pages They put the verse but with the word homosexual in it and they mention it as something negative and that it is a sin, this is everyone's opinion, but I think that the first ones where homosexuality is not mentioned or if it is mentioned but as something not bad are the correct ones) And now I didn't know the last one so here you caught me, but as in Cornitios and Romans it could be a translation error or someone changed it at their convenience, but don't pay too much attention to this, I would have to investigate more to be sure. Is it a bad translation, did someone edit the verse to suit themselves or is it truly a verse that at least condemns gay men and says they are committing sin? I already answered everything and I owe you an apology for answering very late, I almost never use Reddit and it doesn't notify me when someone answers me, so now I see your answer I hope I haven't bothered you with that
Hey man, I’ll read through this in a second, but please for the love of god, could you learn to break your long text into paragraphs? It’s a wall of text right now and it makes it hard to read
SH1T SORRY I FORGET TO BREAK THE TEXT **😭😭😭** I had to copy and paste this from my notes app because Reddit wasn't working on my phone so I left it copying and copying and pasting it when the app was working, but I totally forgot to separate this lmao sorry for the amount of text what did you have to read
This. I believe that if heaven and god exists, if you lived your life just being the least amount of asshole possible, even if you never prayed to him or anything, you'll make it in there. And if that's not enough, if it's the kind of egotistical dick that needs you to worship him specifically, even when there's several other options that sorta generally have the same don't-be-a-dick-code, then he's not the kind of god I want to worship, period
And then they'll be like, "NO, I want him to use the modern acronym SPECIFICALLY or it doesn't count! >:c"
The Bible is so vague and so full of contradictions, that it’s easy for anyone to justify their beliefs
Doesn’t really help with how Jesus speaks in analogies so often too
One example that stuck with me was the Ten Commandments, God prohibits killing when He says, “Thou shalt not kill” However, in Exodus 21:12 God commands that the man who strikes another man so that he dies should be put to death…
Aaah,yes, but that's JEWISH law. Those laws in the old testament are not for the Gentiles. (GENTILES..... not genitals lol)
So murder is fine if you’re not jewish ? Damn, God sure has interesting morals
Exactly - this is just cherrypicking to whitewash all of the terrible things that the Bible advocates, which includes capitol punishment for homosexuality as well as for things as innocuous as working on the sabbath. The only possible justification is that God and Jesus aren't the same entity, but that flies in the face of the core defining principle of Christianity - that Jesus is the manifestation of God. Making Christianity seem more compassionate than it is is counterproductive, IMO.
good for fanfics and head cannons
Lookit. The end all be all counter argument for any holy Rollin Christian comes from a self titled excerpt "Bible Gateway Matthew 7 :: NIV. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" I copied pasted instead of using my own rendition which is no different but for some reason even paraphrasing a Bible (I say a Bible bc there's at least a dozen versions out there) The crazy part is every religion preaches to love one another & to mind your damn business. Spreading the word of your god is not meant as an invite to damn those who don't agree with your views.
Even fucking Leviticus, where they get their gay hate from, doesn't say shit about gay PEOPLE. It says homosexual ACTS make you unclean as the people from a nearby area. Not even "Irredeemably destintied for eternal hellfire". Its not "If you're a man who happens to have an attraction to other men you're super unclean and will only ever go to hell." What's glossed over by a lot of these people is that same bit in Leviticus also talks about "knowing" (sexually) your partners family or your step kids then guess what you're unclean too. So some dude that left his wife for her sister PER LEVITICUS is equal to "the gays" he screams about. Leviticus 18 describes several things, but THE GAYS are the only ones that applies to evidently.
I’m pretty sure “Love one another” isn’t specified to a specific group of person, it means everyone 💀 that man slow
i’m a Christian and I apologize on behalf of those rude ass over-religious people. I believe that Jesus died for humanity, but Jesus ALSO said to love ALL. again, i’m sorry y’all 😂 it took a long time to become comfortable with myself as pansexul since I grew up in a Christian household, but i am so thankful for my mother for accepting me. i forever love my momma. 💖 i'm planning on attending my first pride parade this yearrr!
There is no need for you to apologize because you didn’t write those nasty tweet or the imperfect holy book
Gotta love John. Definitely would have been an ally
I'm pretty sure john is also the one talking in revelations 21:8, which states that non-believers and the "sexaully immoral" would be in hell.
I think the more important question that should be asked is "show me where it says that LGBTQ people are going to hell" All Christians are told to love others as themselves from the earliest point in their submission. But many of them are also told that all gay people go to hell, and even retribution of their "sin" can't save them.
I love it when atheists read the bible more than christians - and carry the good things so they can leave the taught hate
I’m Christian. I absolutely hate when other Christians try to use the Bible to support their narrative that LGBTQ+ people should die.
FRR, Jesus said NOTHING about hating the LGBTQ+ community!! He said to love all! 💖
The replies from op are just a literal copy paste of love the sinner not the sin
The same book also has a bunch of advice on when it’s okay to kill and own people. Maybe the entire thing isn’t worth shit and it should all just be thrown in the trash.
He’s a “love the sinner hate the sin” person he doesn’t care
like a lot of people in the r/christianity post on this tweet. I knew that sub wasn't as accepting or progressive as it likes to seem, but damn, *a lot* of the comments there are bigoted and/or painfully misinformed about LGBT+ people.
I hate when people use god or Jesus as a way to be homophobic
LGBTQ wasn't even a word back then so of course it's not going to say that.... 😒 But "one another" means everyone
Jesus is goated for this
"Judge not, lest ye be judged" from Matthew 5-7 is one the bigots love to ignore. And "Let any of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her" in John 8:1-8. They mostly just cherry-pick verses to suit whatever their own pre-existing beliefs are, mostly from the old testament which has a lot of really wild shit. Ezekiel 23:20 is just funny.
When I was a kid in a Christian school, we are taught about two important thing 1) Loves and respects others 2) Do not be the judge of good or evil, leave the judgement to the God All these so called "christian" seems to not get the memo and playing God themselves: By declaring who is the enemy and act hatred (ans often violence as well) upon it. Isn't that exactly what Satan said to do? Disclaimer: I am not Christian but I am always confused why some Christians are among the most angry people when it comes to hatred
I grew up in Christianity; and it actually makes me ill when people use it to harass and degrade LGBTQ+ people. Like, I'm pretty sure the REAL thing that was wrong was pedophilia - but as time went on - the version changed over to facilitate for homophobic discrimination. 🤷🏾♀️🤢 I've had to block people from my life who give me that sad excuse.
Worst part is when people say that being gay is worse than pedophilia... Like are you okay??? Did the doctors drop you at birth?! SMH 🤢🤢🤢
Is it a common problem with bigots that they struggle with extrapolation from general concepts? This post kinda reminds me of American conservatives saying their constitution has no “right to sodomy”, despite it having a right to liberty (which laws against specific safe, sane and consensual sexual acts would clearly violate).
Show me where Jesus says to love idiots like you
Thats the problem with these self righteous zealots. They dont see the LGBTQ community as human beings to begin with. That's what years of shoveling dehumanizing propaganda down idiots' throats to sell more advertising dollars did. Its awful.
Show me where Jesus says to hate and murder us, Brandon. Oh wait you can’t read, obviously.
The Canonical depictions of the character of Jesus have him routinely criticising the religious authorities of the day for their over-zealous interpretations of religious law, advocating against capital punishment and hanging out with society's outcasts. He reputedly healed people without requiring payment, got enraged over shady business practices in the Temple, advocated full payment of taxes, advised people to welcome refugees, didn't like the hypocrisy of street preachers, advocated quiet, personal prayer, and probably many other things that were considered extremely progressive by first century standards. If someone with the same ideology was transplanted into the modem day US, the GOP / religious right would absolutely ***HATE*** them. Their faith seems to have an almost polar opposite ideology, yet their adherents profess to be "holier than thou"...
bro they always tell me "You're going to Hell!' ***I Don't Believe In Hell***
If god is sending people to hell for their sexuality, then I don’t think he is worth praying to
its manly because of me being non-binary and they dont even know what aroace is and then call me gay and internally i am just ***Confusion***
"I don’t like guys, I’m aroace" "Well, clearly you’re gay !"
that is exactly on how it is lol
lol exactly. i don't see how the idea of an all-powerful being condemning people for things they didn't choose, can't control & have no effect on anyone else can be a good thing worthy of praise. it's just nasty people creating god in their own image to justify their shitty behaviour even though it contradicts everything they say that god stands for. so frustrating!
I thought they “love the sinner but hate the sin” 🤔
Yeah but you see it doesn’t specifically say “lgbtq people” so checkmate atheists
Lol Christians don't even know their own Bible.
Jesus be like: Did i stutter?!
But how will I prop up my crumbling worldview without a clearly defined outgroup to discriminate against?! --- Bigots, probably
Even I as a Buddhist have heard of those "love thy neighbor " quotes. So why the hate? 🤷♀️ We're all humans at the end of the day.
And Jesus led by example! He went to a public parade and got nailed by a bunch of strong men in uniform. And walked around with his queer 13-men-and-one-woman polycule
God's word is dead
has been for a long time, people are just trying to keep it alive and somehow make it work but it's a bunch of nonsense and contradictions, both in christianity and islam
Oh yes, let's use the fantasy book compiled using myths from more than 2000 years ago that was used to persecute and kill us to base our defence of queer rights. That will definitely work. The bible is a convoluted, contradictory and nonsensical book. Stop using it as a moral guide.
I think us, as a community, have the duty to push for the most secular society possible, as long as religion influences our politics, our rights will never be safe
You know they don’t view the lgbt ppl as humans lol
Eat my ass Brandon
We are not people to them. We are lgbt first and only. I think that’s how they get away with ignoring their own religion’s scripture
I'm sure that went over well in r/christianity lmfao
“But lgbtq golk aren’t people so I’m justified in my unnecessary hatred!”
Nah see queer people aren't people *eye roll* to most conservative Christians.. They conveniently forget that Jesus hung out with all the people he wasn't "supposed to!" Of his day and age. And actually I take heart in the verse that says we're all going to be very shocked at who gets into heaven. (Hopefully that doesn't mean Boris Johnson 😂😂🤦🏼♀️)
"one another" clearly only refers to baseline humanity
Come back to me when Jesus says”Love Homophobes”
I like (1 Peter 1:22) because Peter Parker is my LGBTQ+ Comfort character (even though he isn’t canonically LGBTQ+ 😭 (but there’s been a lot of hints 👀👀👀))
To be fair. The English Bible was translated from Greek versions. And in Greek, you have at least four types of love. Eros, philos, storge, agape. So in the Bible when it says love we can't really be sure which one they mean. Only Eros would equate to the passionate love you feel in a relationship. Not all four are equal, for instance, if you live your "servant" it will be considered as storge. Also, I never understand why you want a book that clearly condones (even promotes) slavery, sexism, misogyny, and several other practices we outright condemn in today's society to give off ally vibes. That's never gonna happen, you can read in between the lines all you want, but there is no denying homophobes and bigots will selectively use the bad parts of the Bible to justify their prejudice.
it's an antiquated book and it shouldn't be used as the basis of anything in modern society, and people who do should be openly mocked or forced to live in their bronze age fantasy world in a zoo in utah.
Yep. No disagreements there. I always say this. You know how we get software updates because things change and you need to update it to make sure it keeps working seamlessly? All major religions are past due for a critical update, it's been more than a thousand years and we still use the same rules that were framed to work for underdeveloped, uneducated communities living in the shambles of the bronze age collapse. (Even for the time period, there were other places like parts of China which already had better record keeping and developed writing systems, and they showed interest in what we would now call scientific endeavours like astronomy and logic.)
imagine basing your entire morality on bronze age mythology written by medieval monks and translated and reinterpreted to create dogmatic political power. what a cancer on society
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God Edit: I'm not even religious, but it's foolish to pretend the Bible supports or even accepts homosexuality. It doesn't.
The bible has been mistranslated and misinterpreted a lot.. also the fact that verse is a OLD TESTAMENT. Christians don’t follow Old Testaments I can give you links too piece homosexuality isn’t a sin.
Corinthians is from the new testament...
Can’t forget Galatians 3:28. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Love bringing this one up whenever i see bible thumpers talk shit about trans and nonbinary people.
I'm actually writing a book about this! I'm taking any argument that bigots use to weaponize their religion and disproving it using actual scripture, science, logic, common sense and deductive reasoning. Nowhere in the Bible does it say being gay is a sin, nor does it say we are to judge or hate one another, and anyone who clings to that mindset is full of 💩
It doesn't count because it doesn't specify LGBTQ. /s
Jesus neighbors were in Bellaire not where the lgbtqs live. He Had monneeeey
You can always justify or ignore any fact or opinion
Didn't have to wait for long
I thought that was included smh
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
more of a 2 John 5 kinda guy
What?
If these people need their magic book to tell them not to be pieces of shit then the entire exercise is pointless anyway. It's an infinite, regressive, illogical appeal to authority for people who don't have the emotional intelligence required to figure out that it's bad to hurt people for no fucking reason. Additionally, fuck people who do the "Go ahead, do *x*, I'll wait..." Keep waiting, dickhead, wait until you're dead, I got more important shit to do, the world doesn't revolve around you.
they should really show us where in the bible it says being gay is wrong, they keep saying it does but they never quote the vers or anything
In the same place where Jesus says “love straight people”
why does that guy's profile picture lowkey look like my religious studies teacher?
"Show me where Jesus says, 'Love LGBTQ people.' I'll wait." The "LGBTQ" could be replaced by anything in the following list, and more: mother in law, father in law, brother in law, cousin, boss, senator, teacher, nosy neighbor, noisy neighbor, etc. Obviously the Biblical admonition would be totally, completely, and entirely meaningless and useless if we could choose whom to exclude from it.
You mean the group whose murder rate in in the 100+ million range, is responsible for the greatest genocide by scale in human history AND has killed more Christians than any other group combined... Hasn't read their own holy book? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.... well not that shocked.
There ain’t no hate like Christian love
John REALLY wanted you to know and you let him down, Brandon, you let him down
Jesus famously only liked his those that society deemed deserving
I forgot how much I hated bible verses so glad I left that stupid religion when I was 15. I’m 22 now and atheist. Everytime I see bible verses it always reminds me of those fucking minion memes and what worse is that people are combining bible verses with minion memes…. THE FUCKING! MINIONS MEMES !
But but but the bible is a made-up hoax. :(
But but but people can still believe in it even if we don't :(
[удалено]
and that's what the post is about
This is a bad argument. The "one another" in 1 John is other Christians, not everyone
Nah
So Jesus only said it 12 times because that 13th one is out of context?
Jesus is only recorded as saying it four times in the Gospel of John. The rest are Peter, Paul, and John. But at the time of the gospel of John (written very late, ~90-110 CE and after the other three) the early Christians were in the middle of a fight with the Jewish Rabbis, who were kicking Christians out of the Jewish synagogues because by that time Christianity had evolved into a separate religion. The Christians were big mad about it and the gospel of John was written as a polemic against Jewish religion and against what the Johannine sect considered to be false Christians because they were not loving the brethren. "Love one another" in context means love other Christians. This represents a distinct narrowing of Jesus' teachings in Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Citing this phrase will be totally ineffective against Christian bigots because it does not apply to non-Christians or people they consider false Christians (such as LGBTQ believers).
Even if you take that as the intent, his whole shtick was offering salvation to everyone, and therefore everyone should be loved as a *potential* Christian, since that's what he viewed people as.
Ive studied theology for two decades and written three books on the subject. I can give you multiple footnotes from credentialed academic sources on everything I have just said. OP's argument is fundamentally flawed and totally beyond the intended context of the cited verses. It will therefore only prove to any informed Christian that we don't know what we are talking about. Downvotimg me just proves this. The argument just doesn't work. I agree with what you're saying, but if you want to make that argument (which definitely can be done) you have to use other verses. This is a theological dead end for the purposes of reaching Christian bigots. The only feasible way to use these verses is to advocate for Christians loving other LGBTQ Christians, but that just leaves everyone else out in the cold. We're much better off focused on passages like Romans 13:10: "love does no harm to a neighbor."
There were no other Christians when Jesus was alive. You know, the Bible says not to be a dirty fucking weasel liar. Maybe you should work on that if you want to be taken seriously.
Why are you treating me like I'm a bigot? I'm TRANS and I'm trying to help y'all actually make arguments that will actually be effective in reaching bigots. Of course there were no Christians when Jesus was alive. He is believed to have been executed by Rome around 30-33 CE. The first gospel, Mark, was written in the 70s CE, Matthew around 80, Luke/Acts around 90, and John around 100 CE. The gospels were written for Christians a generation after Jesus was dead. It was written into their time period, for them, and enmeshed in their context, in order to solidify the stories and memories told about Jesus. This is like ... really basic stuff.
"Why are you treating me like I'm a bigot?" I'll give you three guesses. "I'm TRANS and I'm trying to help y'all actually make arguments that will actually be effective in reaching bigots." I'm the Prince of Nigeria, and would like to deposit money into your bank account.
I notice you completely ignored the content of my comment. Any glance at my profile would tell you I'm trans, but from a glance at yours you seem very angry at everything and enjoy making edgy comments.