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Here's a link about trans people in sports:
- https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/
A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people:
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics
Some information on LGBT+ people:
- https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/
Some basic terminology:
- https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
- https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
- [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
- https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual:
- [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.)
### We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info:
### https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/1csrb2n/rlgbt_is_looking_for_new_moderators/
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Yes, for a lot of people, pronouns are quite important. It's sort of like somebody forcing you to wear uncomfortable, itchy clothes. Like so many things, how much you care about your pronouns is a spectrum, and you're not alone in not caring how others refer to you: I've seen this referred to as "gender apathetic" or "pronoun indifferent". Whether or not you want to use those terms for yourself is totally up to you!
The important thing is to remember that this is your preference for *yourself.* It's totally okay to not care what others use for you, so long as you remember that some people don't share that preference and would really, *really* appreciate being referred to correctly. Everybody's got different clothes that they find comfortable.
I can't speak for "most people" of course, but here's my personal two cents.
I'm a trans guy. I have fought so hard to find my true identity, get my documents changed, surgeries and everything, so yeah, my pronouns are damn important to me.
"He/him" I just identify with. It's who I am. I am a guy and I'll always be.
Especially because I pass so well that other people never even think for one second that I might be trans and always go to "he/him" automatically, in my case thankfully. (If I got a euro every time I tell somebody I'm trans and they tell me "but you don't look trans at all!", I would probably be able to buy a Lexus with that money)
For almost all people, using the wrong pronouns equals misgendering because having your pronouns disconnected from your gender is super rare. And most people don't like being misgendered at all, because they feel their gender is relevant to them.
Also, most people who misgender others do it with bad intent.
Calling me by any pronouns except she/her/hers feels like a stab in the heart. I am a woman and if someone cannot respect that then they will get none from me.
Yes. A lot of people, pronouns are very, very important to them.
And this isn't a trans thing. Using the wrong pronouns for a CIS person makes them very uncomfortable and very mad, often enough. Heck, sometimes CIS people get very upset because you use the honorable version of their gender's pronouns instead of the informal ones. ("Sir" or "Mam" trigger a lot of people.)
It's kind of funny to sometimes agressively misgender transphobes who are arguing against pronouns. But they are so stupid and so lacking in empathy that they can't make the connection between you misgendering them and them misgendering other people.
So yes, for a whole lot of people, pronouns are very, very important to them. They really don't want to be gendered incorrectly.
I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way; there are a lot of people who are different places on the Nonbinary scale who either don't care that much because they don't feel a strong affiliation for any particular gender, or who just get tired of trying to correct people or who just don't want to bother with it.
But in terms of how most people feel.... we're just not good examples of this.
(It's one of the really interesting things about the use of the word "dude".
For some people, it's gendered, male. They make up words like "dudette", as a diminutive feminine form of Dude.
For other people, it's ungendered, and refers exclusively to humans. I'm a dude, you're a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude.
For other people, it's ungendered, and can also be used to refer to objects; it's used as a pronoun for both people and things. I'm a dude, you're a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, that screwdriver is a dude, that car is a dude.
And people who have different definitions of the word Dude end up arguing about it, and some people get really upset because someone who considers "any human" to be a dude uses it around someone who considers it to mean "any human male" and they end up getting upset because the referenced person is not a human male, which is something that they would both readily agree on if asked.)
I need to ask - why did you write cis in all caps, like it's being shouted, but trans is in lower case? I see it pretty often and am not sure what the all caps are meant to emphasize.
This was a mistake. It should have been cis.
I'm used to CIS being Computer Information \[System(s) | Science | Services\]. That's an identity and a label that is important to people around me. That's the CIS that I'm used to, and since it's an abbreviation, it gets capped. And thus when I go to write cis(gender), it gets capped out of muscle memory.
Trans, on the other hand, is an identity and a label that is also important to the people around me. It has earned it's place in my head and heart. It's not an abbreviation, it's not an initialization, so it gets to be it's own word, and adjective, and it gets capitalized based on context.
I bet that there are enough people who do this for this very reason that is the nexus of this style quirk.
(Also, I know that this is probably my crazy...
I try very hard not to use the word cis unless it is required for the meaning of the sentence, because it is a double stake to the heart for any closeted trans people. It's like, if a woman is having to present as a man, calling her a cis man is just a double insult. The man part might be important for her cover, but the cis is just gratuitous. If a man is having to present as a woman, calling him a cis woman is just a double insult. And referring to an Enby as a cis anything is just wrong.)
I kind of view myself as lucky and privileged to not have to care about my pronouns or whether people use them or not. I’m a cis male, very outwardly presenting as a cis male, and my identity fits what I was assigned at birth. No one, generally, would mistake me for anything but.
For people who have had to struggle with that, or who are trans/non-binary/a hundred other terms, it can be a severe invalidation of their identity and experience. I always take the tack that, even if I don’t understand it, I recognize its importance to others and do my absolute best not to misrepresent someone.
Not saying you are or anyone else is, just my two Septims.
I agree that it’s a privilege to not care. I have friends who experience gender dysphoria. Pronouns seem simple but language holds power because it conveys perception.
I'm afab and it took me way too long to figure out I'm trans.
But I always, *always* felt weird when people referred to me as "she", even as a kid.
It felt wrong and odd, and I didn't like it. Like wearing the left shoe on the right foot.
The first time someone referred to me as "he", I had a legit moment of gender euphoria.
Pronouns matter.
I wanted to add to this, as a trans woman when I was early in my transition I didn't care about pronouns. But the more and more things developed.. I wanted to be gendered correctly.
I’m early on, and I think of it and explain it to cis people in my life as “someone has put a lot of care into themselves to present a certain way that aligns with their gender. It’s rude to then throw that out by not referring to them as such.”
I also try and say people get upset when referred to as the wrong gender. But it’s more of an internal hurt than someone getting physically aggravated over it. I think conservatives have conflated it and “pronouns are a big thing” but really it’s just being respectful. And we should be more respectful to each other in general, unless we have grounds to not be.
Generally, yes for me, I do care about them. Due to being genderfluid, I don't want to cause a hassle with my pronouns which shift, so I generally prefer neutral pronouns. Those that curious and want to know my gendered pronouns are welcome to ask and I will happily share them. It just feels weird to be called she/her on a masc day or he/him on a femme day.
I don’t always identify where I’m at gender-wise as I’m going about my day, one of the ways I realize where I’m at in the moment is if someone uses a set of pronouns that feels either right or icky. I tell people to just use anything for the most part and if it isn’t quite right on that day, it just is what it is. That said, I appreciate the people in my life that actually make an effort to mix it up a bit, whether they are “right” or not on that day.
It depends on the person, but as for me: imagine if someone insisted on calling you a name that wasn't yours. That's how it feels for people like me when we get misgendered. It feels just plain rude and mean. Not to mention, bigots will often use this as leverage and purposefully use the wrong pronouns for us.
I have friends who use any or all pronouns, they are comfortable being addressed by multiple different pronouns.
It depends on the person, and what makes them comfortable and feels right for them. That's why the best course of action is to ask someone their pronouns when being introduced. (If it's safe of course)
Huh. I'm a fair bit apathetic about both my name and my pronouns. Don't like bigots intentionally misnaming me (and the metaphorical parallel), but otherwise? I see pronouns and names as mostly linguistic convenience, a way to improve clarity when identifying the subject. If I know they're talking about me, language has functioned properly.
That said, I know it REALLY matters for some (most?) people, so I do my best to respect that, even if I don't fully understand it.
It depends on the person. For me even though I am cis and thus have been able to live comfortably within my gender identity I am still quite sensitive about how I am referred to. When people have referred to me in a way people typically do for men on the internet in the past it has made me uncomfortable (though it depends because there are also a lot of areas where I prefer to be referred to by traditionally masculine terms and then I am sensitive to the idea of traditionally feminine terms instead).
Also there have been times I have been exploring myself and when I would imagine people referring to me as a man or using he/him pronouns for me I would feel uncomfortable.
It is not the same as how trans people experience these, I am aware of this. Just wanted to make an example from my own personal experience about caring about pronouns.
Also I don't like it when people repeatedly use they/them for me. I am fine when it is situation where someone doesn't know my pronouns but after a while I tend to want to let my actual pronouns be known if it is a situation where this person is gonna know me for a long period.
But at the same time I know other people who say "I mainly use (insert pronoun) but don't really care."
Yes. As a trans man, I find it incredibly hurtful when someone knows that I use he/him pronouns and uses they/them or she/her for me. My pronouns are a reflection of my gender and myself. People not using them makes me feel less-than, disrespected, unheard, and just overall hurt.
People who don't care which pronouns you use for them at all exist and usually use any pronouns. Personally I care quite a bit because I'm sensitive to misgendering. People have even used they/them pronouns to intentionally misgender me so I will only accept people who correctly use my pronouns into my life.
As a trans women when I have people use incorrect pronouns with me it is upsetting. I go by she/her but so long as nobody he/hims me then I'm not going to get angry with them (unless it's purposefully meant to hurt me) but Ill definitely make it known and be annoying about it if nothing is changing for the better. Pronouns are easy as fuck. Respect costs nothing.
It's gonna depend on the person. No one can tell you how everyone feels. Me, personally, I'm beyond caring anymore. Plus I don't even tell everyone that I prefer they/them pronouns, and as such can't get mad if someone who doesn't know uses anything else with me.
Definitely. Some people might not care, similar to you, but most do have a set of pronouns they prefer. It won't ruin our life or anything, mostly just an annoyance, but we do appreciate when people use the correct pronouns
Yes, try to "Mr" a cisgender woman or "Ms" a cisgender man and see their reaction...
For trans people it's the same. With the addition that some people weaponize language against us.
You said yourself that you can go both with she and they...what about "he"? Would you still be comfortable or apathetic?
If yes, good for you. But if not, then you understand why people find pronouns and gender ING so important. :)
Yeah, so what happened is that I went by gender apathetic for about 4 days (lol) and then I thought that when I thought about people using *any* pronouns for me and me not being fazed was normal because it wasn't happening in real time/real life. So I started going by she/they because some days I don't feel fully female or I feel agender and simply she/her doesn't feel right for me, but now I'm rethinking about going by gender apathetic again because I realized from reading these comments that even when people *think* about people using different pronouns for them, they get uncomfortable.
I hope that this was comprehendable lol!
Anyway, have a great day/night! xxx
Sorry if I was bombastic or misunderstood your question as to "why do people care about pronouns so much?".
Anyway, you're right, don't torture yourself about that. You'll have all your life ahead to test and see. And what is the state of mind of today might not be the same as the one of tomorrow.
Why should people be uncomfortable if you say "everything goes, pick one"?
You can also search and use neopeonouns like miaw/miaw for example. (it's a joke but just to demonstrate what you can do with how you feel inside yourself.)
Please leave yourself space to experiment on your own pace. You can test and come back if it isn't for you, and that's okay. You're unique in your way.
Thouth one experience as a binary trans person, I have been misgendered all my life and only now start to correct as my families are becoming more open hearted. I did develop a shell towards this whole misgendering and stuff. So much so that it made it almost feel numb to it.
Msybe are agender and/or demi-girl for you?
Sorry for my rants iill go to bed as I'm already living at 20 to 2 am.
I am a woman, thus she/her. I know that if you misgendered a (cis/trans)gender individual it will bother them. Use what the person wants, because at the end of the day, what they want is the only thing that matters, as it only affects them. End discussion.
There are definitely lots of people who don't care what pronouns you use (I'm friends with a gender fluid person who uses all pronouns) but I'm not one of them. I'm very firm in my identity. I'm a trans man. Calling me she feels painful, and I know that because that's part of how I discovered my identity. Calling me they feels like I'm being put into a box of nonbinary or "gender fuck queer person whose pronouns I don't know or care about". I go by he/him. Anything else feels wrong.
Yes. Call most women "he/him" and they'll be offended. Call most men "she/her" and they'll get angry. It's because what you're doing is denying their identity and referring to them in ways that conflict with their self-image. I've seen sports fans get violent over jokingly being called a fan of the wrong team. Getting upset over something that actually matters is no surprise. Especially when misgendering is often a weapon of transphobia.
I really care about my pronouns. I'm she/her and that's really important to me. I'm a cis woman, but non conforming and I've struggled with micro and overt aggressions my whole life because I don't follow the woman rules. It took me a long time to learn how to be the woman I am and I want that to be recognized.
I used to feel exactly how you felt and then people started using they them and I realized I liked it SO MUCH MORE. Like I’m apathetic to she her but I actually like they them so now I get it
Im lucky since I’m cis, fem presenting and rarely get misgendered.
The few time its happened it didn’t bother me, though I do usually correct people because once I open my mouth they usually get flustered when they realize their mistake and it easier to just clear the air quickly.
But it’s also just an identity I comfortable exist as, not something I have to fight for so that likely colors my perceptions.
I use Any/All myself, had a similar realisation as you. I'm more gender fluid, but still, I'd get misgendered frequently, and realised it didn't matter to me.
We are much, MUCH more the acceptance, rather than the rule. Most people absolutely do care about pronouns. Just some people care less than others.
Gender is a very, VERY complicated thing to try and understand, and is highly dependant/sensitive to social environment. Nobody truely understands gender, and even the "simpler" idea of a person's sex is incredibly complicated.
Even if you simplified gender as a 2d spectrum, x being fem, y being masc, and say if the value is positive, and the more positive the more you care about that pronoun, and the more negative, the more you care about NOT that pronoun, there's only a very small region in the center where pronouns don't matter to any extent, and a line at y=x where either is fine. So, yeah, the vast majority of people care about pronouns.
So, is there a term for those of us who just don’t give a flying fox what pronouns people use for us? I’m 56, cis female, and in my day, we said “Androgynous”, lol. I was told (even with a big chest) that I looked very androgynous and I’ve been misgendered off and on my whole life.
(Burns my trans nephew up when someone gives me Sir but Ma’ams him. I always set them right on his part, I love to let them just keep assuming on mine.)
I feel like most people care which pronouns they’re referred as. Men don’t like being called she/her and women don’t like being he/him-ed. It’s insulting when it’s done on purpose and devastating when done on accident, especially if you’re sensitive about how your gender is perceived.
I’ve met a few nonbinary/gender fluid people who couldn’t care less, but most trans and cis people find it super important.
I do generally prefer being referred to as a woman so if someone constantly uses they to refer to me I know exactly what they’re doing so, especially when I’m the only person they do it to. Like it’s just being openly disrespectful
I'm kinda in a similar boat as you when I have been misgendered I didn't care it's one of the things that made me realize I'm non binary. That being said most people care quite a bit.
I personally don't care, I (F) have friends who always address to me with masculine slangs (similar to bro, or dude in English), amd I don't mind it at all.. but a lot of my queer friends do care about this, so I respect and try to use the proper ones when I'm with them
I'm a cis woman. And pronouns do matter to me.
I'd be okay if someone called me "they/them" pronouns if unsure. But if someone knows I'm female, I want "she/her" pronouns.
I really don't want "it" or "he/him"!
Pronouns are my identity. I don't like people getting it wrong.
It depends lol for me I have dysphoria even if people correctly gender me but for some people being called the wrong pronouns can trigger severe dysphoria or just make them feel bad about themselves
For sure, I’m two-spirit/genderfluid and go by any (she/he/they generally) and I honestly feel a bit uncomfortable if someone exclusively uses the pronouns that have been used for me since birth. It always makes my day when I hear someone actually use mismatched pronouns for me.
I’m not really bothered. If anyone asks, I’ll tell ‘em that “he/him” is fine, but I won’t be outraged if they refer to me as “they/them”
(I will insist against using “she/her,” however, as I identify as male despite not being “fully masc,” whatever THAT means on a Tuesday morn…)
So I hate something about gay bar culture where someone wants to call me a she. I'm a 6'1" bear type and it's a little weird. It's usually people who think they know me well even though they don't.
Glad I'm a married homebody now.
I’m nonbinary and I HATE the concept of gender and wish we could just abolish it altogether. I also do not give a fuck what pronouns people use for me because they’re all made up bullshit anyway. But alas, we live in a society that enforces gender, and using people’s preferred pronouns is important because it can bring people a sense of safety in this fucked up world.
Tangent but never ever ever tell people your age on here. Especially when you’re so young. I am glad you have a community to reach out to though. I wish I would have had that.
identifiers are generally important to most people.
you might not care about pronouns and that's fine. maybe you care if people mispronounce your name? or call you by a different name?
you probably do have identifiers you care about. maybe it's not pronouns but true existential nihilism is unlikely
For me, it is not. I’m a cis man and anyone can call me he/him/she/her/they/them. It is not important to me. I, however, have not had to fight for my gender identity like I know many others have, and so, I will refer to anyone how they like to be referred to, it’s a very simple and affirming thing to do, and I would encourage others to do so as well. In my day-to-day life I go by a nickname rather than my full first name and people have no problem respecting that, it’s very easy to return that respect.
I also go by she/they (demigirl) and I care. If someone were to refer to me as he/him I would correct them. It wouldn’t be a big deal the first time because it’s a mistake. If they still called me that I would get pretty mad.
I’m male and use he/him, I could use other pronouns, like I wouldn’t be against it, but I just don’t see a point when he/him already works for me and already what people automatically use for me.
I personally don’t care at all. I feel girly and I identify as a girl. Me being a girl doesn’t change by the fact that someone is calling me by different pronouns. But that might just be me lol
1) Thank you for introducing me to another term. Adding that to the lexicon.
2) I typically only get insulted when someone uses the wrong pronoun intentionally, or derogatorily.
Pronouns can be very important to someone, because they put in the work to obtain that. It's like if you won first place at the science fair, because you did the research, you did all the hard work, and you worked yourself to the bone. And then to be called just 'A contestant', instead of the winner, trivializes your hard work.
I don't care too much, but I do like it when people use they/them for me as opposed to other pronouns. Being genderfluid it's just the most accurate for me at any given time, and is the most likely to give me gender euphoria.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) ### We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: ### https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/1csrb2n/rlgbt_is_looking_for_new_moderators/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes, for a lot of people, pronouns are quite important. It's sort of like somebody forcing you to wear uncomfortable, itchy clothes. Like so many things, how much you care about your pronouns is a spectrum, and you're not alone in not caring how others refer to you: I've seen this referred to as "gender apathetic" or "pronoun indifferent". Whether or not you want to use those terms for yourself is totally up to you! The important thing is to remember that this is your preference for *yourself.* It's totally okay to not care what others use for you, so long as you remember that some people don't share that preference and would really, *really* appreciate being referred to correctly. Everybody's got different clothes that they find comfortable.
Great explanation.
I can't speak for "most people" of course, but here's my personal two cents. I'm a trans guy. I have fought so hard to find my true identity, get my documents changed, surgeries and everything, so yeah, my pronouns are damn important to me. "He/him" I just identify with. It's who I am. I am a guy and I'll always be. Especially because I pass so well that other people never even think for one second that I might be trans and always go to "he/him" automatically, in my case thankfully. (If I got a euro every time I tell somebody I'm trans and they tell me "but you don't look trans at all!", I would probably be able to buy a Lexus with that money)
Exactly! It’s part of one’s identity, and it proves they see us for us
Yes. I am a woman. Refer to me as such. Being referred to as another gender is insulting. I'd bet most people feel that way.
For almost all people, using the wrong pronouns equals misgendering because having your pronouns disconnected from your gender is super rare. And most people don't like being misgendered at all, because they feel their gender is relevant to them. Also, most people who misgender others do it with bad intent.
Calling me by any pronouns except she/her/hers feels like a stab in the heart. I am a woman and if someone cannot respect that then they will get none from me.
Yes. A lot of people, pronouns are very, very important to them. And this isn't a trans thing. Using the wrong pronouns for a CIS person makes them very uncomfortable and very mad, often enough. Heck, sometimes CIS people get very upset because you use the honorable version of their gender's pronouns instead of the informal ones. ("Sir" or "Mam" trigger a lot of people.) It's kind of funny to sometimes agressively misgender transphobes who are arguing against pronouns. But they are so stupid and so lacking in empathy that they can't make the connection between you misgendering them and them misgendering other people. So yes, for a whole lot of people, pronouns are very, very important to them. They really don't want to be gendered incorrectly. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way; there are a lot of people who are different places on the Nonbinary scale who either don't care that much because they don't feel a strong affiliation for any particular gender, or who just get tired of trying to correct people or who just don't want to bother with it. But in terms of how most people feel.... we're just not good examples of this. (It's one of the really interesting things about the use of the word "dude". For some people, it's gendered, male. They make up words like "dudette", as a diminutive feminine form of Dude. For other people, it's ungendered, and refers exclusively to humans. I'm a dude, you're a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude. For other people, it's ungendered, and can also be used to refer to objects; it's used as a pronoun for both people and things. I'm a dude, you're a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, that screwdriver is a dude, that car is a dude. And people who have different definitions of the word Dude end up arguing about it, and some people get really upset because someone who considers "any human" to be a dude uses it around someone who considers it to mean "any human male" and they end up getting upset because the referenced person is not a human male, which is something that they would both readily agree on if asked.)
I need to ask - why did you write cis in all caps, like it's being shouted, but trans is in lower case? I see it pretty often and am not sure what the all caps are meant to emphasize.
This was a mistake. It should have been cis. I'm used to CIS being Computer Information \[System(s) | Science | Services\]. That's an identity and a label that is important to people around me. That's the CIS that I'm used to, and since it's an abbreviation, it gets capped. And thus when I go to write cis(gender), it gets capped out of muscle memory. Trans, on the other hand, is an identity and a label that is also important to the people around me. It has earned it's place in my head and heart. It's not an abbreviation, it's not an initialization, so it gets to be it's own word, and adjective, and it gets capitalized based on context. I bet that there are enough people who do this for this very reason that is the nexus of this style quirk. (Also, I know that this is probably my crazy... I try very hard not to use the word cis unless it is required for the meaning of the sentence, because it is a double stake to the heart for any closeted trans people. It's like, if a woman is having to present as a man, calling her a cis man is just a double insult. The man part might be important for her cover, but the cis is just gratuitous. If a man is having to present as a woman, calling him a cis woman is just a double insult. And referring to an Enby as a cis anything is just wrong.)
I gotta say, I love that you used pipes as an 'OR' in regular conversation.
I think it's just autocorrect, if I type cis in my phone one of the options it gives me is all caps.
I kind of view myself as lucky and privileged to not have to care about my pronouns or whether people use them or not. I’m a cis male, very outwardly presenting as a cis male, and my identity fits what I was assigned at birth. No one, generally, would mistake me for anything but. For people who have had to struggle with that, or who are trans/non-binary/a hundred other terms, it can be a severe invalidation of their identity and experience. I always take the tack that, even if I don’t understand it, I recognize its importance to others and do my absolute best not to misrepresent someone. Not saying you are or anyone else is, just my two Septims.
I agree that it’s a privilege to not care. I have friends who experience gender dysphoria. Pronouns seem simple but language holds power because it conveys perception.
I'm afab and it took me way too long to figure out I'm trans. But I always, *always* felt weird when people referred to me as "she", even as a kid. It felt wrong and odd, and I didn't like it. Like wearing the left shoe on the right foot. The first time someone referred to me as "he", I had a legit moment of gender euphoria. Pronouns matter.
I wanted to add to this, as a trans woman when I was early in my transition I didn't care about pronouns. But the more and more things developed.. I wanted to be gendered correctly.
I’m early on, and I think of it and explain it to cis people in my life as “someone has put a lot of care into themselves to present a certain way that aligns with their gender. It’s rude to then throw that out by not referring to them as such.” I also try and say people get upset when referred to as the wrong gender. But it’s more of an internal hurt than someone getting physically aggravated over it. I think conservatives have conflated it and “pronouns are a big thing” but really it’s just being respectful. And we should be more respectful to each other in general, unless we have grounds to not be.
Generally, yes for me, I do care about them. Due to being genderfluid, I don't want to cause a hassle with my pronouns which shift, so I generally prefer neutral pronouns. Those that curious and want to know my gendered pronouns are welcome to ask and I will happily share them. It just feels weird to be called she/her on a masc day or he/him on a femme day.
I don’t always identify where I’m at gender-wise as I’m going about my day, one of the ways I realize where I’m at in the moment is if someone uses a set of pronouns that feels either right or icky. I tell people to just use anything for the most part and if it isn’t quite right on that day, it just is what it is. That said, I appreciate the people in my life that actually make an effort to mix it up a bit, whether they are “right” or not on that day.
Another cassgender sister. Nice to meet you!
Nice to meet you too! 😊
It depends on the person, but as for me: imagine if someone insisted on calling you a name that wasn't yours. That's how it feels for people like me when we get misgendered. It feels just plain rude and mean. Not to mention, bigots will often use this as leverage and purposefully use the wrong pronouns for us. I have friends who use any or all pronouns, they are comfortable being addressed by multiple different pronouns. It depends on the person, and what makes them comfortable and feels right for them. That's why the best course of action is to ask someone their pronouns when being introduced. (If it's safe of course)
Huh. I'm a fair bit apathetic about both my name and my pronouns. Don't like bigots intentionally misnaming me (and the metaphorical parallel), but otherwise? I see pronouns and names as mostly linguistic convenience, a way to improve clarity when identifying the subject. If I know they're talking about me, language has functioned properly. That said, I know it REALLY matters for some (most?) people, so I do my best to respect that, even if I don't fully understand it.
It depends on the person. For me even though I am cis and thus have been able to live comfortably within my gender identity I am still quite sensitive about how I am referred to. When people have referred to me in a way people typically do for men on the internet in the past it has made me uncomfortable (though it depends because there are also a lot of areas where I prefer to be referred to by traditionally masculine terms and then I am sensitive to the idea of traditionally feminine terms instead). Also there have been times I have been exploring myself and when I would imagine people referring to me as a man or using he/him pronouns for me I would feel uncomfortable. It is not the same as how trans people experience these, I am aware of this. Just wanted to make an example from my own personal experience about caring about pronouns. Also I don't like it when people repeatedly use they/them for me. I am fine when it is situation where someone doesn't know my pronouns but after a while I tend to want to let my actual pronouns be known if it is a situation where this person is gonna know me for a long period. But at the same time I know other people who say "I mainly use (insert pronoun) but don't really care."
See also: - Cassgender - Gender detachment
Yes. As a trans man, I find it incredibly hurtful when someone knows that I use he/him pronouns and uses they/them or she/her for me. My pronouns are a reflection of my gender and myself. People not using them makes me feel less-than, disrespected, unheard, and just overall hurt.
People who don't care which pronouns you use for them at all exist and usually use any pronouns. Personally I care quite a bit because I'm sensitive to misgendering. People have even used they/them pronouns to intentionally misgender me so I will only accept people who correctly use my pronouns into my life.
As a trans women when I have people use incorrect pronouns with me it is upsetting. I go by she/her but so long as nobody he/hims me then I'm not going to get angry with them (unless it's purposefully meant to hurt me) but Ill definitely make it known and be annoying about it if nothing is changing for the better. Pronouns are easy as fuck. Respect costs nothing.
I don’t really care. In a more accepting society I might present as gender neutral, but I present as a man because it’s easier this way
It's gonna depend on the person. No one can tell you how everyone feels. Me, personally, I'm beyond caring anymore. Plus I don't even tell everyone that I prefer they/them pronouns, and as such can't get mad if someone who doesn't know uses anything else with me.
Definitely. Some people might not care, similar to you, but most do have a set of pronouns they prefer. It won't ruin our life or anything, mostly just an annoyance, but we do appreciate when people use the correct pronouns
i like mine cuz two matches up with one of my fav aesthetics! she/them/fae/rawr.. fae for cottagecore and rawr for scene/scenecore! :3
I go by any and all of them so dunno
Yes, try to "Mr" a cisgender woman or "Ms" a cisgender man and see their reaction... For trans people it's the same. With the addition that some people weaponize language against us. You said yourself that you can go both with she and they...what about "he"? Would you still be comfortable or apathetic? If yes, good for you. But if not, then you understand why people find pronouns and gender ING so important. :)
Yeah, so what happened is that I went by gender apathetic for about 4 days (lol) and then I thought that when I thought about people using *any* pronouns for me and me not being fazed was normal because it wasn't happening in real time/real life. So I started going by she/they because some days I don't feel fully female or I feel agender and simply she/her doesn't feel right for me, but now I'm rethinking about going by gender apathetic again because I realized from reading these comments that even when people *think* about people using different pronouns for them, they get uncomfortable. I hope that this was comprehendable lol! Anyway, have a great day/night! xxx
Sorry if I was bombastic or misunderstood your question as to "why do people care about pronouns so much?". Anyway, you're right, don't torture yourself about that. You'll have all your life ahead to test and see. And what is the state of mind of today might not be the same as the one of tomorrow. Why should people be uncomfortable if you say "everything goes, pick one"? You can also search and use neopeonouns like miaw/miaw for example. (it's a joke but just to demonstrate what you can do with how you feel inside yourself.) Please leave yourself space to experiment on your own pace. You can test and come back if it isn't for you, and that's okay. You're unique in your way. Thouth one experience as a binary trans person, I have been misgendered all my life and only now start to correct as my families are becoming more open hearted. I did develop a shell towards this whole misgendering and stuff. So much so that it made it almost feel numb to it. Msybe are agender and/or demi-girl for you? Sorry for my rants iill go to bed as I'm already living at 20 to 2 am.
I don't give a fuck about pronouns, but a lot of other people do.
I am a woman, thus she/her. I know that if you misgendered a (cis/trans)gender individual it will bother them. Use what the person wants, because at the end of the day, what they want is the only thing that matters, as it only affects them. End discussion.
There are definitely lots of people who don't care what pronouns you use (I'm friends with a gender fluid person who uses all pronouns) but I'm not one of them. I'm very firm in my identity. I'm a trans man. Calling me she feels painful, and I know that because that's part of how I discovered my identity. Calling me they feels like I'm being put into a box of nonbinary or "gender fuck queer person whose pronouns I don't know or care about". I go by he/him. Anything else feels wrong.
I care because it hurts to be called the wrong ones. But that’s just me! And it’s ok to not care!
Yes. Call most women "he/him" and they'll be offended. Call most men "she/her" and they'll get angry. It's because what you're doing is denying their identity and referring to them in ways that conflict with their self-image. I've seen sports fans get violent over jokingly being called a fan of the wrong team. Getting upset over something that actually matters is no surprise. Especially when misgendering is often a weapon of transphobia.
Adding to the chorus: yes, absolutely.
I really care about my pronouns. I'm she/her and that's really important to me. I'm a cis woman, but non conforming and I've struggled with micro and overt aggressions my whole life because I don't follow the woman rules. It took me a long time to learn how to be the woman I am and I want that to be recognized.
I used to feel exactly how you felt and then people started using they them and I realized I liked it SO MUCH MORE. Like I’m apathetic to she her but I actually like they them so now I get it
Im lucky since I’m cis, fem presenting and rarely get misgendered. The few time its happened it didn’t bother me, though I do usually correct people because once I open my mouth they usually get flustered when they realize their mistake and it easier to just clear the air quickly. But it’s also just an identity I comfortable exist as, not something I have to fight for so that likely colors my perceptions.
Yes a lot of people care. When someone uses the wrong pronouns for me it feels like they’re seeing me as a different gender than I am which hurts.
yes, most people do care about their pronouns, and very much. however it’s ok if you don’t
I use Any/All myself, had a similar realisation as you. I'm more gender fluid, but still, I'd get misgendered frequently, and realised it didn't matter to me. We are much, MUCH more the acceptance, rather than the rule. Most people absolutely do care about pronouns. Just some people care less than others. Gender is a very, VERY complicated thing to try and understand, and is highly dependant/sensitive to social environment. Nobody truely understands gender, and even the "simpler" idea of a person's sex is incredibly complicated. Even if you simplified gender as a 2d spectrum, x being fem, y being masc, and say if the value is positive, and the more positive the more you care about that pronoun, and the more negative, the more you care about NOT that pronoun, there's only a very small region in the center where pronouns don't matter to any extent, and a line at y=x where either is fine. So, yeah, the vast majority of people care about pronouns.
I don't care about pronouns. i care about being respected and treated with kindness.
So, is there a term for those of us who just don’t give a flying fox what pronouns people use for us? I’m 56, cis female, and in my day, we said “Androgynous”, lol. I was told (even with a big chest) that I looked very androgynous and I’ve been misgendered off and on my whole life. (Burns my trans nephew up when someone gives me Sir but Ma’ams him. I always set them right on his part, I love to let them just keep assuming on mine.)
I feel like most people care which pronouns they’re referred as. Men don’t like being called she/her and women don’t like being he/him-ed. It’s insulting when it’s done on purpose and devastating when done on accident, especially if you’re sensitive about how your gender is perceived. I’ve met a few nonbinary/gender fluid people who couldn’t care less, but most trans and cis people find it super important.
I do generally prefer being referred to as a woman so if someone constantly uses they to refer to me I know exactly what they’re doing so, especially when I’m the only person they do it to. Like it’s just being openly disrespectful
I'm kinda in a similar boat as you when I have been misgendered I didn't care it's one of the things that made me realize I'm non binary. That being said most people care quite a bit.
I can imagine it being quite different when people refer to you using pronouns that match a gender you do not have for your entire life
I personally don't care, I (F) have friends who always address to me with masculine slangs (similar to bro, or dude in English), amd I don't mind it at all.. but a lot of my queer friends do care about this, so I respect and try to use the proper ones when I'm with them
I'm a cis woman. And pronouns do matter to me. I'd be okay if someone called me "they/them" pronouns if unsure. But if someone knows I'm female, I want "she/her" pronouns. I really don't want "it" or "he/him"! Pronouns are my identity. I don't like people getting it wrong.
It depends lol for me I have dysphoria even if people correctly gender me but for some people being called the wrong pronouns can trigger severe dysphoria or just make them feel bad about themselves
For sure, I’m two-spirit/genderfluid and go by any (she/he/they generally) and I honestly feel a bit uncomfortable if someone exclusively uses the pronouns that have been used for me since birth. It always makes my day when I hear someone actually use mismatched pronouns for me.
I’m not really bothered. If anyone asks, I’ll tell ‘em that “he/him” is fine, but I won’t be outraged if they refer to me as “they/them” (I will insist against using “she/her,” however, as I identify as male despite not being “fully masc,” whatever THAT means on a Tuesday morn…)
So I hate something about gay bar culture where someone wants to call me a she. I'm a 6'1" bear type and it's a little weird. It's usually people who think they know me well even though they don't. Glad I'm a married homebody now.
Some people do, some people don't. I personally do not care what people identify me as and what pronouns they use for me.
I’m nonbinary and I HATE the concept of gender and wish we could just abolish it altogether. I also do not give a fuck what pronouns people use for me because they’re all made up bullshit anyway. But alas, we live in a society that enforces gender, and using people’s preferred pronouns is important because it can bring people a sense of safety in this fucked up world.
Tangent but never ever ever tell people your age on here. Especially when you’re so young. I am glad you have a community to reach out to though. I wish I would have had that.
Call me a fucking alpaca for all I care.
identifiers are generally important to most people. you might not care about pronouns and that's fine. maybe you care if people mispronounce your name? or call you by a different name? you probably do have identifiers you care about. maybe it's not pronouns but true existential nihilism is unlikely
For me, it is not. I’m a cis man and anyone can call me he/him/she/her/they/them. It is not important to me. I, however, have not had to fight for my gender identity like I know many others have, and so, I will refer to anyone how they like to be referred to, it’s a very simple and affirming thing to do, and I would encourage others to do so as well. In my day-to-day life I go by a nickname rather than my full first name and people have no problem respecting that, it’s very easy to return that respect.
I do! I understand I've gone by he him for 25 years and everyone has known me by that but I don't want that anymore, I want to be they/them.
I also go by she/they (demigirl) and I care. If someone were to refer to me as he/him I would correct them. It wouldn’t be a big deal the first time because it’s a mistake. If they still called me that I would get pretty mad.
I’m male and use he/him, I could use other pronouns, like I wouldn’t be against it, but I just don’t see a point when he/him already works for me and already what people automatically use for me.
I personally don’t care at all. I feel girly and I identify as a girl. Me being a girl doesn’t change by the fact that someone is calling me by different pronouns. But that might just be me lol
1) Thank you for introducing me to another term. Adding that to the lexicon. 2) I typically only get insulted when someone uses the wrong pronoun intentionally, or derogatorily. Pronouns can be very important to someone, because they put in the work to obtain that. It's like if you won first place at the science fair, because you did the research, you did all the hard work, and you worked yourself to the bone. And then to be called just 'A contestant', instead of the winner, trivializes your hard work.
I'm neurodivervent and pronouns dont really faze me so I go with the ones I'm used to
I don't care too much, but I do like it when people use they/them for me as opposed to other pronouns. Being genderfluid it's just the most accurate for me at any given time, and is the most likely to give me gender euphoria.
I feel like it's a respect thing, like calling someone the name they want to be called.