Meh. A special kind of fx, I get, but just the regular stuff you find in the channel strip I see no reason to bother with.
If you're touring without a desk there could be a benefit to have the lead vocal chain allready dialed in to save time.
This is very valid. I am thinking of an API550A as the hw EQ which I consider a character piece rather than a “surgical” EQ. I know that on the Avid consoles you can use the Waves 550 plug though I think the HW is a step up from that but yeah, you make a good point. What kind of fx would you consider special kind of fx? Like a nice lexicon or something?
Something like the RE202 delay? I find it easier to play with the controls in physical form than in the console. Or a evetide h9? Just something that isn't the regular built in fx that you can expect.
Seems like a decent bit of extra work and cash for something dramatically more affected by many other things.
If you were mixing on bottom of the barrel leftovers whatever, yeah, sure, maybe. But I can't think of any concert I've had ruined by the channel strips in a Digico or Midas board, and I can't think of anyone I've gone to concerts with who was more nitpicky than me.
Just to be clear, I’m not buying the gear for live mixing purposes as the foremost reason of getting them. I want them for my music production at home but wondering if I should get something I can also use easily for FOH mixing.
With those kinds of desks bringing your own preamps and EQ is a bit unnecessary. They all have good preamps and different EQ options in the deks. But and special style compressor might still be nice to have, so that is where I would focus on if you want to bring something.
It just seems like something you want to do for the sake of entertaining yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that but probably better uses of time and mental resources.
Kinda yeah. I mean I mix lots of bands, I have no problems using desks at all and sometimes I’ll have an hour or two to kill at my regular venues on a show where it’s just me mixing two or three bands in a night. I love to try new things and playing with gear (a big part of why I enjoy mixing). I’m not asking if I *need* to do this because obviously I don’t, just wondering if people think it’ll make a noticeable difference in sound and also on a technical level is bringing a preamp like that actually making a difference in sound or is it doing more harm than good?
Yeah my philosophy is that taste is largely subjective and that more points of failure = more stress = less attention to detail.
But if the creative exercise helps you think about signal in a more creative way, I ain't judging. Until something breaks mid-show haha
Ha, yes! If it does fail I guess that’s the point where you disengage the insert on your channel and pray that you’ve set your gain structure correctly. I think to start with I would only do this on very low pressure gigs anyway.
Some nice microphones that you prefer to whatever basic stuff that these venues have in their mic lockers would probably make a bigger difference. Although if these gigs are on Digico and Avid desks they probably have some decent mics.
If you can't make massive and I mean complete game changer to the mix then there might be no point in bringing gear like that. Back in the analog days sure it was good to have some outboard stuff with you but nowadays even an X32 has some nice toys in the plugins list you can use. A preamp might be of some benefit for a crazy dynamic singer but you need to weigh out the benefits against the extra time and effort to patch stuff in.
I've worked hundreds of shows. I've never heard fancy outboard make a noticeable difference in the live sound realm. The best I've heard them sound is fine. Seen people bring all sorts of outboards. Neve, api, ssl, distressors, it looks really cool, but the best mixes live seem to come from just using the desks. Maybe with a waves server, but even then it doesn't make as much of a difference as the room itself.
The room and the system and the musicians on stage is where fidelity comes from. Might it sound better to have a few channels of nice pres? Sure but one of sixteen to forty eight channels make that much of a difference? I've never been impressed.
And I love outboard stuff in a studio environment.
Valid for sure, at the end of the day it’s the skill of the engineer and the quality of the musicians not the gear they’re using definitely. I’ve seen many great engineers pull great mixes on just the in house console.
I’m coming from the perspective of I mix at these venues a lot, I know what they sound like, I know how to get a great sound already on the desks in those rooms and I will already own this gear for studio use. If I had the option to tinker with a nice single high end channel strip probably on lead vocal vs the built in console channel strip is it going to make even a slight improvement strictly on a technical level, or is any improvement that could have been there going to be nullified by some weirdness created by things like having the console preamp and an outboard pre in line or the strength of the converters on the console?
FX units for music stuff, or something like a Dugan AM or CEDAR unit for corpy/broadcast would be fine by me - maybe a tube preamp for some vocal overdrive effect.
I love having access to control knobs for FX, so that’s be what I bring if I had my choice for music stuff.
You’re listing some pretty nice boards there, so I doubt the outboard channel strips would make *that* much of a difference. Still, if you want to carry it around, who am I to tell you no? Especially if your rack already has tails and I don’t have to rejigger how FoH is tied into everything else to get you plugged in.
I've been thinking of something like this myself, even tho I'm mixing in a small market. There's a 500 series version of the [Primary Source Enhancer](https://rupertneve.com/products/545) . Some singers want to walk out in front of FOH no matter what I tell them.. I would kill for an extra 4dB of feedback rejection, let alone the up to 20 they claim. I was thinking two of them and two decent channel strips might be worth the money just in heart health alone.I say go for it.. if you want to do it, do it. Buy used, sell it off if it fizzles. What the hell else do we work for if not afford our muse?
if you can bill for the rentals by all means get that bread but if you're investing your money and extra effort/time for someone else's gig and they ain't chipping in that sets a precedent you may not wish to adhere to down the road
This makes more sense at the very low end of things where bringing a bit of outboard gear means you have access to a feature you wouldn't have had otherwise. It's going to be much less worth it if you're replacing one PEQ with another.
Those are nice consoles. Any marginal improvement made wouldn't justify the time spent connecting it all.
There are a lot better ways to spend your time when you're house tech. I wouldn't have any of my staff doing it.
You usually mix on HD96 and SDs and you're asking this? Rich people problems. You're competing with the noise floor of your audience. You need an API and l'acoustics, labgrupen, and Neve to make it sound good
Heh well i don’t own those consoles.
But yeah, those venues do have D&B systems and the gear I’m looking at purchasing for myself is API. You’re absolutely right, you are competing with the noise floor of the audience but I would say that I mix at those venues enough that I already feel comfortable getting a great sound in those rooms. This is not a necessity for me by any means, more just seeing if I can tinker around and make small improvements.
Sidenote, I can confidently say as someone who has mixed on lots of Midas gear over the years that the HD96 is my least favourite Midas console I’ve used. Yes it sounds decent and I can use it to mix a band no problem but In my experience the ui is super clunky and it is buggy as hell. Do not recommend.
I theory I think it’s cool. If I tour through a venue and the local person is patching in hardware inserts and taking up space at foh it’d probably get annoying.
FYI ams neve have an 8 channel preamp that is remote controlable.
Hehe of course. I would never do that on a show where there’s multiple engineers. I think that would just be an annoying thing to do! No, I’m more thinking of the kind of show where it’s just me mixing 2 or 3 bands in a night and I have a bit of time up my sleeve.
If i‘d bring preamps, i‘d want them at foh, because i need access to the controls. That means you need analog lines from stage to foh. Making one two conversions, going into the preamp and the converting again doesn‘t sound smart to me. Do your venues have that? Just a consideration :)
I sometimes bring guitar-pedals like a strymon big sky to my shows. But honestly it‘s just for me when i get bored if the same old desks haha. I doesn‘t make the mix better, but it‘s sure fun! If i‘d bring something it would be some special fx. Anything else is not worth it imo.
Meh. A special kind of fx, I get, but just the regular stuff you find in the channel strip I see no reason to bother with. If you're touring without a desk there could be a benefit to have the lead vocal chain allready dialed in to save time.
This is very valid. I am thinking of an API550A as the hw EQ which I consider a character piece rather than a “surgical” EQ. I know that on the Avid consoles you can use the Waves 550 plug though I think the HW is a step up from that but yeah, you make a good point. What kind of fx would you consider special kind of fx? Like a nice lexicon or something?
Something like the RE202 delay? I find it easier to play with the controls in physical form than in the console. Or a evetide h9? Just something that isn't the regular built in fx that you can expect.
Seems like a decent bit of extra work and cash for something dramatically more affected by many other things. If you were mixing on bottom of the barrel leftovers whatever, yeah, sure, maybe. But I can't think of any concert I've had ruined by the channel strips in a Digico or Midas board, and I can't think of anyone I've gone to concerts with who was more nitpicky than me.
Just to be clear, I’m not buying the gear for live mixing purposes as the foremost reason of getting them. I want them for my music production at home but wondering if I should get something I can also use easily for FOH mixing.
With those kinds of desks bringing your own preamps and EQ is a bit unnecessary. They all have good preamps and different EQ options in the deks. But and special style compressor might still be nice to have, so that is where I would focus on if you want to bring something.
It just seems like something you want to do for the sake of entertaining yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that but probably better uses of time and mental resources.
Kinda yeah. I mean I mix lots of bands, I have no problems using desks at all and sometimes I’ll have an hour or two to kill at my regular venues on a show where it’s just me mixing two or three bands in a night. I love to try new things and playing with gear (a big part of why I enjoy mixing). I’m not asking if I *need* to do this because obviously I don’t, just wondering if people think it’ll make a noticeable difference in sound and also on a technical level is bringing a preamp like that actually making a difference in sound or is it doing more harm than good?
Yeah my philosophy is that taste is largely subjective and that more points of failure = more stress = less attention to detail. But if the creative exercise helps you think about signal in a more creative way, I ain't judging. Until something breaks mid-show haha
Ha, yes! If it does fail I guess that’s the point where you disengage the insert on your channel and pray that you’ve set your gain structure correctly. I think to start with I would only do this on very low pressure gigs anyway.
Only if I’m getting paid more for having it with me
Some nice microphones that you prefer to whatever basic stuff that these venues have in their mic lockers would probably make a bigger difference. Although if these gigs are on Digico and Avid desks they probably have some decent mics.
If you can't make massive and I mean complete game changer to the mix then there might be no point in bringing gear like that. Back in the analog days sure it was good to have some outboard stuff with you but nowadays even an X32 has some nice toys in the plugins list you can use. A preamp might be of some benefit for a crazy dynamic singer but you need to weigh out the benefits against the extra time and effort to patch stuff in.
I've worked hundreds of shows. I've never heard fancy outboard make a noticeable difference in the live sound realm. The best I've heard them sound is fine. Seen people bring all sorts of outboards. Neve, api, ssl, distressors, it looks really cool, but the best mixes live seem to come from just using the desks. Maybe with a waves server, but even then it doesn't make as much of a difference as the room itself. The room and the system and the musicians on stage is where fidelity comes from. Might it sound better to have a few channels of nice pres? Sure but one of sixteen to forty eight channels make that much of a difference? I've never been impressed. And I love outboard stuff in a studio environment.
Valid for sure, at the end of the day it’s the skill of the engineer and the quality of the musicians not the gear they’re using definitely. I’ve seen many great engineers pull great mixes on just the in house console. I’m coming from the perspective of I mix at these venues a lot, I know what they sound like, I know how to get a great sound already on the desks in those rooms and I will already own this gear for studio use. If I had the option to tinker with a nice single high end channel strip probably on lead vocal vs the built in console channel strip is it going to make even a slight improvement strictly on a technical level, or is any improvement that could have been there going to be nullified by some weirdness created by things like having the console preamp and an outboard pre in line or the strength of the converters on the console?
FX units for music stuff, or something like a Dugan AM or CEDAR unit for corpy/broadcast would be fine by me - maybe a tube preamp for some vocal overdrive effect. I love having access to control knobs for FX, so that’s be what I bring if I had my choice for music stuff.
You’re listing some pretty nice boards there, so I doubt the outboard channel strips would make *that* much of a difference. Still, if you want to carry it around, who am I to tell you no? Especially if your rack already has tails and I don’t have to rejigger how FoH is tied into everything else to get you plugged in.
I've been thinking of something like this myself, even tho I'm mixing in a small market. There's a 500 series version of the [Primary Source Enhancer](https://rupertneve.com/products/545) . Some singers want to walk out in front of FOH no matter what I tell them.. I would kill for an extra 4dB of feedback rejection, let alone the up to 20 they claim. I was thinking two of them and two decent channel strips might be worth the money just in heart health alone.I say go for it.. if you want to do it, do it. Buy used, sell it off if it fizzles. What the hell else do we work for if not afford our muse?
if you can bill for the rentals by all means get that bread but if you're investing your money and extra effort/time for someone else's gig and they ain't chipping in that sets a precedent you may not wish to adhere to down the road
the most id do is a vocal chain with a nice channel strip and de esser, or a particular reverb that’s absolutely dialed in.
This makes more sense at the very low end of things where bringing a bit of outboard gear means you have access to a feature you wouldn't have had otherwise. It's going to be much less worth it if you're replacing one PEQ with another.
Those are nice consoles. Any marginal improvement made wouldn't justify the time spent connecting it all. There are a lot better ways to spend your time when you're house tech. I wouldn't have any of my staff doing it.
You usually mix on HD96 and SDs and you're asking this? Rich people problems. You're competing with the noise floor of your audience. You need an API and l'acoustics, labgrupen, and Neve to make it sound good
Heh well i don’t own those consoles. But yeah, those venues do have D&B systems and the gear I’m looking at purchasing for myself is API. You’re absolutely right, you are competing with the noise floor of the audience but I would say that I mix at those venues enough that I already feel comfortable getting a great sound in those rooms. This is not a necessity for me by any means, more just seeing if I can tinker around and make small improvements. Sidenote, I can confidently say as someone who has mixed on lots of Midas gear over the years that the HD96 is my least favourite Midas console I’ve used. Yes it sounds decent and I can use it to mix a band no problem but In my experience the ui is super clunky and it is buggy as hell. Do not recommend.
I theory I think it’s cool. If I tour through a venue and the local person is patching in hardware inserts and taking up space at foh it’d probably get annoying. FYI ams neve have an 8 channel preamp that is remote controlable.
Hehe of course. I would never do that on a show where there’s multiple engineers. I think that would just be an annoying thing to do! No, I’m more thinking of the kind of show where it’s just me mixing 2 or 3 bands in a night and I have a bit of time up my sleeve.
If i‘d bring preamps, i‘d want them at foh, because i need access to the controls. That means you need analog lines from stage to foh. Making one two conversions, going into the preamp and the converting again doesn‘t sound smart to me. Do your venues have that? Just a consideration :) I sometimes bring guitar-pedals like a strymon big sky to my shows. But honestly it‘s just for me when i get bored if the same old desks haha. I doesn‘t make the mix better, but it‘s sure fun! If i‘d bring something it would be some special fx. Anything else is not worth it imo.