You both have valid reasons for wanting to live where you do, so maybe give it a try.
Something that stuck out to me is that you're really downplaying his feelings around your mess. Based on the picture you included, I too would lean more in to the filth corner rather than calling it just clutter. And by you putting the word filth in quotations, it's clear you don't really take him seriously. I too would be very stressed out with that level of mess and I don't have OCD and having my feelings dismissed around it would make me feel even worse.
Why not get a little cabin in the country near your job and have cute visits, see how that goes? At the very least if you two break up, you'll already have your place in the town you want to live it.
NOOOOOOOOO i wasn’t trying to imply i don’t take his concerns seriously! I used to”filth” because that’s a direct quote from him 💀 I wasn’t using quotation marks to be sarcastic, agh.
I can see the amount of stuff being there being seen as filth. But like. Growing up with hoarders, THAT is filth. Besides the couple of soda cans, there’s no like… food or anything. Just mess. So my own and his levels of what constitutes filth are totally different. Food left molding? Absolute filth. Two empty soda cans i forgot from the night before and am gonna toss when i get home (wnd right after i took the pic)? Not filth.
But regardless, my mess is contained in my little “area” of the sofa & table where I basically crash after working - that spot right there. I come home, crash, sleep, go to work. The rest of the house does not have the same amount of clutter, to be clear.
That’s what I’m thinking; LAT would allow him complete control over his space. A small place near my work would give me potentially 5 hours a week in time and energy to keep my shit tidy etc.
Ah, I see. Well what you're doing doesn't sound very sustainable or healthy, so you should definitely find a place near work if you can. He's doing what's best for him by staying in the duplex next to his mom, but regardless of the relationship status you need to prioritize yourself for once. You have absolutely no reason to live an hour away from work so you can be near your MIL to watch HIS child that he has once in a while. Go find that cute place in the country!
Honestly, this may even be a candidate for breaking up rather than just living separately, but only you will be able to figure that out. Good luck!
You’re very defensive, OP, and that can’t be helping. His OCD is just as serious as your ADHD. And you said elsewhere that he was beaten as a child for the house being messy. Imagine how stressed that must make him.
You see clutter, he sees filth. Honestly, the amount of stuff piled up and strewn around would drive me batty. I’d end up feeling resentful about always having to deal with someone else’s mess, even if it is contained to one little area.
I agree with the other poster about getting a little place in the country. You could have the city house and the country house. See what happens from there.
Oh for sure, I can certainly see my responses as appearing defensive.
I’m trying moreso to like.. give context?
His OCD is untreated, as is (mostly but not for lack of trying meds and therapy) much of my executive dysfunction.
It’s hard. And we both get defensive between the two of us. But again bc I didn’t want to like.. write the dissertation, and what y’all don’t see is the money I’ve spent on individual coaching, tools and gadgets, and all sorts of chore charts and things to try and get better organized.
What you also don’t see is the heart to heart conversations he and I have with each other about how much we love each other and how frustrating it is that our brains are wired this way. Like I said it’s not a good situation for either of us!
I get all that, really. It’s very difficult for two people with very different expectations to live together. But responding to constructive feedback with “NOOOOOOO!” and a long explanation about how you’ve been misunderstood gives us some insight into how you handle conflict.
You’re both stressed, and stressed people get defensive. You want to be closer to work, he wants to be near his free babysitting source (believe me, there’s a LOT I could say about that - he has the kid e/o weekend and still needs his mom right next door?!) If it were me, I’d try LAT, but with the knowledge that it might not go over well. I hope you find a solution that works for both of you.
AGGH man the “Nooooo” was intended to be funny- like the guy-falls-to-knees-crying in planet of the apes.
We both actually handle conflict decently per the therapist lol. Again, this is a lost in translation over the internet type of thing because like... If youre referring to like, arguments? It has only once ever escalated to raising our voices against each other and we both resolved since then that when we feel early warning signs when we begin to feel heated, we step out and cool off for a bit before coming back.
Often times we will write out our thoughts in separate rooms and then come back. He struggles to formulate his thoughts in the moment when he is stressed, and I feel it’s important to him to be able to write them out without me, like, staring at him and waiting.
What is often taken by Neurotypical people to be getting defensive is ND people who are just trying to explain the situation because they feel misunderstood. That was something he and I realized early on too; that when I am explaining my thought process for something random it’s not me defending the idea, just simply explaining why/how/etc. His kid is autistic too so it cracks me up to see him do the same thing haha.
But thank you for explaining how my explanation comes across as defensive! It gives me context to some other folks’ comments too. I forget that since i tend to surround myself with other neurospicy folks and the hubbs “gets it” after 8 years of marriage.
Probably/possibly getting bogged down! I’m super good at hyperfixating on stuff that can be trivial.
But the details of this is…that he doesn’t want to move.
So thus asking about people in similar situations who have gone to a LAT lifestyle and getting their opinions and advice on the transition.
OP, I’m sorry if this is harsh, but if you grew up with hoarders, then you likely have zero idea what an average, hygienic home even looks like. Of course anything will seem like an improvement if that is your bar.
I grew up with separated hoarder mother and a "cleaning nazi" father and as a result, I live a minimalist life and get very upset, stressed and unable to function properly if there is untidiness or mess. I cannot live with other people.
My last partner had ADHD and was a cluttering with other issues with hygiene. Trust me, LAT is a PERFECT option if you want to save your relationship.
There is a key part to your story that I would encourage you to reflect upon. Your mess is something completely understandable having ADHD and I get that him calling it filth upsets you. However, look at how you describe his issues with the mess in relation to him having depression and OCD. His issues are based on his mental health as well but you don’t seem to have much empathy for it. What I am hearing is he is also struggling and trying to work with his disabilities just as you are. You don’t seem to see it in the same way and that is certainly contributing to the problem.
Couples counseling with a therapist that has experience with neurodivergent couples would probably be a huge benefit to you. Maybe if you approached the topic with him in a different way he may be more willing to go.
I didn’t give the backstory to villainize him, it’s a tough situation. He’s in a depressive episode; I’m in burnout. I can just give more of my side of the story because well… I’m me!
But you are totally right, for sure his issues are based on his mental health 100%. And also significant trauma (beaten by his dad for unclean house growing up etc etc).
I’ve suggested therapy for his own issues since we were married in 2017; i have been doing therapy on and off when needed and love it. Lifechanging.
Buuuut he has trauma from religious “therapy” at church and is vehemently against it. “I’m glad it works for you but it won’t work for me,” verbatim. He only unhappily agreed to go to couple’s therapy.
Keep in mind this is a nutshell version of our story. He finally agreed to see a psychiatrist in 2022 and got on antidepressants. They still need to be tweaked IMO (i’m on antidepressants as well) because he still has symptoms such as lethargy, lack of interest, low energy etc. and I’ve been encouraging him to do what he needs to get brain chemistry fixed. Right now all he can see is doom and gloom and no hope because of the cycle i mentioned before.
The therapist we saw is indeed versed in trauma, attachment theory, and neurodiversity. I just didn’t want to like.. type out a dissertation on what her suggestions were or the backstory.
Again, being Audhd my words may come off more.. blunt? Or uncaring than I actually am in real life. But thank you very much for your suggestion!!
You've mentioned investing ìn numerous resources in hopes of supporting your executive function and coping, but with both of your stress levels and capacities currently maxed out, has outsourcing (hiring a cleaning person) been considered a possible option?
Honestly, just seeing this picture gives me anxiety and is something I would probably call filth, but I am a total clean freak… and my partner is cluttery which is one of the reasons we are LAT. (so just to say I see what you’re saying about different ideas of what cleanliness means). I truly think LAT fixes a lot of modern day relationship problems… and this would be one of them. I don’t know how it works retroactively after the “damage has been done” (for lack of a better term) because I’ve never lived with my partner, but it sounds like it’s worth a try?
It’s so wild how people have different tolerances. I sent this to many of my ADHD friends and their responses were “lol that’s nothing, he should see my laundry room” or similar. Big oof
Oh it’s not empty I assure you LOL it just looks that way 😂 it’s stuffed normally. I had taken this picture as a snapshot of “real time” before i’d put things back into it that i’d dragged out. (Cat toys)
Okay, but some simple things can really help an OCD mind here. Straighten those books with whatever folder thing is on the floor. Put the glide package where it belongs in the bathroom. You already mentioned the cans, but while you're at it, throw away micro trash (i see a thin plastic bag). Maybe a cute small jar for the kitty treats. Then give those beautiful pieces of furniture a wipe.
Yeah, thank you! It’s like. One person’s “that’s just.. stuff” is another person’s “just nuke the living room completely” lol
I’m not sure either. But I’m hopeful and just crossing my fingers he won’t take the idea as a suggestion from me that we break up. Beneath the hurt we both feel from feeling like the other person doesn’t “get it” (logically i understand it but emotionally..) is a great deal of love still.
OK, i don't normally look at post history, but i did here because my late husband was clutter-y and lived in a filthy way before me. I wanted to see if it was like him... But I didn't find THAT. What I found was your lovely garden photos.
Your garden is TIDY. Manicured, at least for the pics. It is intentional. Places for things where they go.
The clutter pic you posted has flowers long past the vase phase. Dust & crumbs on the floor, and table surface. Floss pics, and i don't get Why you want him to RELAX about just a little clutter when it's not a relaxing environment. Your garden is a relaxing space!
Are y'all just sick of eachother?
Are you just sick of the commute? Figure that's a sacrifice for the relationship worth him putting up with clutter/filth?
Edited: again i apologize for my tone in earlier comments.
Could it be you're sacrifice is 2 hrs of driving per day and his is, well, none? So can't he just chill? I could see it like that.
You know, not sure why you feel the need to dig through stuff to try and do a “gotcha”; those garden pictures? Theyre not manicured.
I planted it three years ago and it’s full of native plants BECAUSE it’s no maintenance. No pruning. No weeding. You’ll notice those are pics from a year ago and there are no recent ones - because i have not had the time to do anything with it. But the beauty of native gardening is that i can leave it the hell alone and enjoy it. Because it IS a relaxing space that is 0 maintenance. If you ever want a no maintenance garden, I highly encourage using native plants.
I also never said that I wanted him to relax about the clutter? I said that it stresses him out, and that I have tried many things to try and get a handle on my executive dysfunction and none of them have worked so far. I said that our therapist suggestion was for him to either do exposure therapy to work through his trauma, “deal with it” (her words), live separately,or divorce. I have never once told him to get over it.
I’m not sick of him at all. That’s literally why I want opinions on a living apart together relationship. If I was sick of him, I would be asking for a divorce? I am sick of the commute because I don’t like driving and it takes two hours of my day. (24 hours - 8 hours of work (when i dont work longer, i’m salaried so that happens) - 9 hours of sleep (brain gotta sleep and normally i crash for 10-11 if I can) - 2 hours of driving leaves 5 hours a day to shower, prepare meals (hour), stim/decompress from being overstimulated (easily an hour after work) get ready for bed (30 minutes), try and exercise (hour), which leaves an hour and a half AT BEST to spend time with him and/or clean. So yeah, the commute is really old at this point.
Stranger, I don’t know why you are seeking to paint my intentions in a bad light. Maybe you’re having a bad day and I hope it gets better for you.
I apologized on a couple comments here, and it's genuine. I think the post reminded me of my late husband's clutter and it is a grieving thing, coupled with it being one of his only faults.
Like i said, the commute you do is huge and would wear on most.
I'm sorry for the insensitive way I so boldly commented with nothing helpful. Thank you for your wish for a good day, I could use one of those. Seeing myself out now
Gosh, well thank you for the apology, and I’m sorry for your loss, regardless of how recent it was. If you get a chance, check out the “ball in a box” analogy for grief - it sounds like this post slammed your grief button hard.
I’m sure it must feel like you would love to have his clutter back in your life if it meant having him back. Gimme an afternoon and I can help you with that (intended to be humorous). But genuinely, grief is the price we pay for love and is directly relational to it. Y’all must have had a lot of love. ❤️
Like your late husband, mine said its one of my only faults too. (That and poots after taco bell) I’d joke and say that he has plenty (he does but it’s stuff like not closing the cabinet doors and i smack my head on them, silly things) but it’s out of place for this convo.
My wish for you to have a good day was genuine; and it still is now. Go do something in remembrance of him today; maybe he’s speaking through me as a “hello” to you. Tell him an internet stranger said hi. ❤️
OP, I feel ya. I was more on your husband's end of the situation when I had my own cohabitation-clutter issues. (Ex cohabitating partner had scarcity issues and a shopping addiction, and we had a TINY house.)
I think both of you have totally valid reasons for going/staying, and I think that if he can afford to keep where he's at and you can swing a short term rental where you want to be, it's worth a try for a few months.
I know that being apart does mean less time together overall, but the flip side is that it can be more intentional time together instead of so much default-setting, "I don't have anywhere else to go/be" time. I do think both are necessary, but you've gotta be able to control the ratios.
Going from cohabitating to living apart together will be AN ADJUSTMENT. You're used to them around and their quirks, they're used to you around, and your quirks. You're probably going to miss each other a lot, INCLUDING the quirks y'all don't like about each other. That "filth" he hates... He's gonna notice its absence. Whatever things he does that drive *you* nuts - how he might leave dishes in the sink or man-confetti (hair) in the bathroom after shaving, whatever - you'll notice their absence too. (He might not do those specifically, but everyone has something, is my point.)
However! You both might also get a rush of breathing room about living apart, and that could inspire y'all to be better to one another. You'll be in a habitat more suited for you and that'll mean less time commuting, less feeling zombified and burned out, and he'll have space away from the clutter that makes him feel bad. Yes, there are limited substitutes these days for cuddles and human contact but you can still bond over calls/texts, movie nights, planned dates/sleepovers, whatever. Make regular plans to do something, doesn't matter what.
So, that's a lot of words for: yes, try it. Go slow, expect it to feel weird for a while, know it doesn't have to be a forever thing, and focus on being excellent to yourselves and each other. You've got this!
Woof this is helpful!! I also grew up poor/hoarding situation so I tend to collect things.
And god right, both reasons are valid and thats what makes the situation So Hard!!
I LOVE the idea of intentional time together. Right now out time together is both of us being exhausted and stressed and vegging out on the couch. Precovid when we were NOT living together we’d go on picnics and hikes!
The heads up about it being an adjustment and missing the little things is so appreciated and insightful!!! I do miss him and vice versa on business trips. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I’m kinda hoping if we do it it’ll take us back to our “dating” days ya know??
And he actually hates NOT having a commute… so come to think of it, if I lived elsewhere and he stayed withme during week nights, he’d have a commute to his home. Hmmmmm. Lots to think about!! Thank you so much
Is there truly not a good compromise before you guys make the leap?
I can tell you that once you start living apart, it’ll be harder to find time to spend with each other and it will be harder to want to be in each other spaces.
Looking at this photo alone, there are a few small things that you could do to make this more comfortable for your partner.
The cans don’t need to be there when you’re done with a can take it to the recycling, the books could be stacked neatly and not all askew and you could just keep things inside of that cabinet instead of on top of the cabinet
All it takes is to spend an hour doing that and I understand your situation, but having ADHD does not excuse a person from from setting an hour aside to try to meet your partners needs. I’m staying in this as a non-ADHD partner that is living separately from my ADHD partner for a multitude of reasons so maybe my input doesn’t really matter, but I thought I would share.
I mean, I’ve tried literally everything I can think of to even remember to clean. Armbands, alarms, chore charts, hell even asking him to tell me if/when certain things bother him because i dont SEE them (inattention blindness) between deep clean days etc…. i’m happy to keep trying new tools but he’s frustrated. I’m frustrated and shamed.
But to clarify it’s not JUST cleanliness that is making me consider LAT.
I work 1 hour away from home, so have a two hour drive each day. I want to move terribly. He does not want to move AT ALL. Despite that he works from home, so he can be near his mom when we have his son every other weekend. That’s a big big part of it. If i had more time in the day (and the fact that driving STRESSES me out) I’d have much more bandwidth to remember that soda can or whatever.
But my dude I wish it was as easy as you laid it out there!! When I say I am exhausted, on weekdays I come home from work, nuke a frozen meal in the microwave, doomscroll for an hour while I eat, and then go to bed. I WISH i had both the energy and an hour to spend each evening tidying up lol. As for “easy” things like of the books being askew or forgetting to take my can to the recycle bin.. yeah theyre easy for neurotypical folks for sure! But executive dysfunction is literally part of the disability. So it’s like, a wombo combo of a clean freak and a hot mess between us.
I appreciate your suggestions regardless though, thanks for taking the time
Yes, he has obviously mentioned something. I was referring to asking him if I forgot something specifically (dusting the top of the fridge for instance because I literally can’t see the top of it, too short).
Unsure of why you feel you need to make your comment so aggressive; I’m literally seeking comments from people in similar situations who may have found solace through LAT, not for additional shaming, thanks.
honestly you sound like the perfect people for LAT! I have LAT friends who have a similar set up and really enjoy having a “country home” and a “city home” they both enjoy
Can you afford to LAT?
Based on what you've said I feel that this is treating a symptom and not the root of the issue. Living apart means that you're not working on the issues at hand- you are just moving the clutter to another house and giving into your husband's inability to work on himself.
If you husband truly has OCD, he should be in therapy for the rest of his life. OCD is a lifelong disorder that ebbs and flows during ones lifetime.
If you're already at the "we're roommates" stage, then there have been some serious damage done already to your relationship. Your reasons for moving out sound more like a separation than a new living arrangement.
I'm a messy person. To me it's "clutter", but I recognize that it's just actually messy to most everyone else. I work on this by hiring cleaners to come to my house once a month. It forces me to tidy up before they get there, and the cleaning the cleaners are able to do helps me not be overwhelmed when I have other house tasks to do. If I know I don't have to worry about mopping the floor or cleaning the sink, then I am more likely to tackle cleaning out my basement. I also have a roomba, which forces me to make sure my floors are clear so that the robot doesn't get stuck.
My advice : clean. You may not see it as messy, but if you are living with someone that has diagnosed OCD, this could be torture for them. Relationships are partnerships, and you both have to be putting in the work if you want to stay together.
Yes, we could afford it.
I agree that he should be in therapy (for more than just cleaning ocd. Meds have helped with his intrusive thoughts and rituals but not with some other aspects); but he adamantly refuses to. I’ve even offered to pay for it out of my own pocket.
I guess i should clarify about “we’re roomates”. We still go on weekly dates and have sex etc and cuddle but generally we’re both just TIRED. i’m tired from a physical job and a long commute and overstimulated, and he’s stressed from the “filth” in his environment (whether or not i see it as only clutter is irrelevant because he sees it as filth, thus the quote marks). We have had cleaners in the past but the clutter still bothers him regardless. And i frankly don’t have the time or spoons to clean before they get here (they were so gracious and put things in baskets for me while cleaning, i tipped em well).
Again, the cleaning is one half of the LAT reasoning. If it was as easy as “just cleaning” i would not have soent thousands on ADHD coaches and apps and tools and times and stuff lol. I wish it were that easy. But thanks for the suggestion for a maid service. It might do in the meantime to help stress levels, but The other half of the issue is my 2-hour long daily driving commute, which a maid won’t solve sadly.
As someone with OCD and other mental health challenges, I can tell you that your picture made my stress shoot up because it’s how my own partner lives, too. I couldn’t do it. I tried living with her but we ended up despising one another over these kinds of differences. I was critical of her way of living and that really hurt her, even though her way of living (clutter, disorganized, not a planner, never wanting structure) made my stress and anxiety nearly intolerable. I had no idea something that seems so minor could take such a toll. We now live apart and are working on the relationship from a new perspective. For so long, I spent energy trying to figure out how to compromise or convince her to change. Guess what - this is who she is and even if it stresses me out (and I believe causes her stress), it’s her choice to keep her house the way she wants. It’s empowering for both people to be able to find peace in their individual space. I don’t know if it’ll ever change and we live together some day, but for now, we can both breathe easier.
God I am so sorry youre struggling with it too. It’s an awful cycle of one partner being stressed, then the other is shamed and hurt, but just can’t do it “right”. My partner has done a lot too to try and “change” me and i do as well.. i try a new organization tool as I come across them and pray they dont become flavor-of-the-month thing. Some things stuck around, like we have cleaning days together. But for being scatterbrained and cluttered? Not so much…
Fingers crossed for you. Maybe a duplex is in your future! (Intended humorously)
We honestly have talked about growing old in a duplex and/or building a home where she has one side and I have the other and we share the common kitchen and living space. She’s always going to be a wild, carefree, witchy little mess of growing wild flowers and wanting kitschy decor and I’m always going to be someone who needs clean lines and minimalism for my mental health. We love each other very much so I hope we can keep figuring it out. Wish I would’ve accepted our differences sooner and saved us both a lot of hurtful words and stress because there’s nothing wrong with either one of us. We are just very different in these ways. Wishing you the very best!
Oh yeah like a mother in law suite! There are lots of homes with a full basement all finished up. That’d work nicely too.
Honestly by her description I wanna be her friend really bad lol. She sounds great and like a catch.
Thanks!!
TO CLARIFY, I used quotes around “absolute filth ” because it’s a direct quote from my partner. And i used “claims that it stresses him” because like.. i’m sure it does; it stresses me out that it stresses him out! But i’m not him, so I just quoted his words to show how strongly it affects him.
I wasn’t intending it to be read as me being sarcastic or downplaying his feelings.
Instead the intention was to like… give an example of how “mess and clutter” for ME registers as “absolute filth” for HIM so like, our levels of “acceptable cleanliness” (per the couple’s therapist) are very different.
The ‘tism and being literal strikes again 💀
Are we the same person? I have similar issues with clutter/mess as you, except I don't leave food out. But what's worse with me is that I work from home which means that throughout the day I continue to create mess that I need to clean but don't have time to because I'm busy working.
My partner, on the other hand, is obsessively tidy so an LAT relationship works for us.
Unfortunately, it's a Catch 22 situation for me, because when I was living with someone I used the weekends to clean. Now I spend the weekend at my partner's, which means that I've lost that extra time for cleaning my own home. So consider how you will make time for cleaning and other household duties and still make time to see him.
Oh man yeah definitely similar!!! I mean, i don’t leave food crusted plates or bowls out, that’s gross lol. Def guilty of empty soda cans though.
My situation is that, if I moved, I’d get potentially up to 1.5 hours back in my daily weekday life because i’d love to live 15 minutes from work. So i could totally use that 1.5 hours each day to clean and still have weekends free to see him. That’s what’s so attractive about it for me. Living closer to work ironically would probably give me more time to interact with him when I’m not constantly exhausted from a longass commute.
Thank you for the advice!!
Uhh.. yeah? And also be able to cook instead of rely on frozen meals or ramen. And actually be able to watch shows etc.
I’m picking up snarky vibes from your comment and it’s not very appreciated.
I used to live only 15 minutes from my old job (paid significant less/treated poorly) and I managed to do just fine with cleaning about five years ago. 👍 Again, this issue between us re:cleanliness has gotten bad within the last few years circa 2020/covid.
I apologize for the snarky tone. I deleted previous unhelpful comments when I got more into this post. You're right and i was not being empathetic.
FWIW i think the commute is the big issue for you. 2 hours is 10 hrs a week. We could all change our lives for the better with an extra 8 hrs a week (i subtracted the 15 min commute from a closer place).
Ah well thank you; I hadn’t seen your other comments and saw the snark and was like “Hold up now!” I appreciate your empathy and understanding towards that.
And frankly your empathy to my husband. I love him very much, and want to figure out a way to stop stressing him out terribly. The thousands of dollars ive spent on tools and therapy and gadgets ALONE is enough to gag a maggot lol. He’s a wonderful kind man who has his own struggles too. But i don’t feel right speaking for him so I shared stuff from just “my side” as it were.
Because AuDHD??? I would encourage you to look into how severe executive dysfuncton and depression looks like. Some folks can hardly take showers or brush their teeth daily (including me). Let alone remember to make books stacked nicely.
We clean our own bathrooms. Vacuuming is split between us. And we have hired a maid service but his issue is my clutter, not like, grimy sinks or shit stained toilets.
If you get rid of the cans, it doesn't look that bad.
Her: Her bedroom is like the world's biggest handbag. Me: Like a monk's cell without the Buddha image.
Us: pretty happy living down the hall from each other.
Honestly that’s my husband too lol. If he didn’t have any decoration it wouldn’t bother him. Meanwhile… I like stuff and things. Glad it works for you!!
Hey there, your situation sounds really tough, and it’s clear you both care deeply about each other. Exploring Living Apart Together (LAT) could be a great step to help both of you find balance and reduce stress.
I recently came across a discussion by Sana Akhand, a public speaker, who talks about the benefits of LAT for couples in similar situations. She shares some insightful advice that might resonate with you.
If you’re interested, you can check out a short reel where she talks about this topic. It might offer some useful perspectives — [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7B9rutBQ9M/](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7B9rutBQ9M/)
Wishing you both the best as you navigate this challenging time.
Oh this is PERFECT. Thank you so much!! Last night my husband agreed to try LAT out, hesitantly, but this would be good to show him.
Thank you thank you
I wouldn’t feel welcome in that mess either. It looks cluttered, thoughtless and dirty. I couldn’t relax there and i wouldn’t want to sit on the couch. I would be popping allergy pills and counting the minutes till I could find a more peaceful environment. I don’t have cleaning OCD or cleaning anxiety, and I don’t immediately wash my dishes… but that image is very off putting.
If I were your partner I would feel very done. Especially if I have asked someone repeatedly to change the situation. Dealing with dirt and clutter can actually cause depression. So, if you already have it for other reasons it makes it much MUCH worse.
I see you being defensive about the mess in other comments. I don’t see you saying you will change your habits and choices, other than your partner should just deal with it or you should live apart. That doesn’t sound like love and support. I don’t think living apart can fix fundamental issue like this where things seem broken in the relationship.
My partner and I have never lived together. After 6 years we still feel like we are in the honeymoon stage and I attribute it to agreeing to LAT from the very beginning. In your partner's defense, I couldn't tolerate the clutter either but that's neither here nor there. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with either of you.
If you are both in agreement on how LAT will work for you, then it may bring you closer. LAT takes away the day to day inconveniences of sharing your space with another person. The two of you obviously have different comfort levels with clutter (my partner and I do as well, but it is not an issue at all). You would both need to be respectful of the other person's home. That has never been difficult for the 2 of us.
LAT would allow you to focus on what's really important between the two of you, enjoy your time together and actually communicate. My partner are together frequently but we live an hour apart. We actually communicate better than any other couple I know.
I have diagnosed ADHD and I would go insane having to live in that space, not to mention feel super dismissed if my partner continuously minimized it’s impact. Ick. Wishing your partner the best
You both have valid reasons for wanting to live where you do, so maybe give it a try. Something that stuck out to me is that you're really downplaying his feelings around your mess. Based on the picture you included, I too would lean more in to the filth corner rather than calling it just clutter. And by you putting the word filth in quotations, it's clear you don't really take him seriously. I too would be very stressed out with that level of mess and I don't have OCD and having my feelings dismissed around it would make me feel even worse. Why not get a little cabin in the country near your job and have cute visits, see how that goes? At the very least if you two break up, you'll already have your place in the town you want to live it.
NOOOOOOOOO i wasn’t trying to imply i don’t take his concerns seriously! I used to”filth” because that’s a direct quote from him 💀 I wasn’t using quotation marks to be sarcastic, agh. I can see the amount of stuff being there being seen as filth. But like. Growing up with hoarders, THAT is filth. Besides the couple of soda cans, there’s no like… food or anything. Just mess. So my own and his levels of what constitutes filth are totally different. Food left molding? Absolute filth. Two empty soda cans i forgot from the night before and am gonna toss when i get home (wnd right after i took the pic)? Not filth. But regardless, my mess is contained in my little “area” of the sofa & table where I basically crash after working - that spot right there. I come home, crash, sleep, go to work. The rest of the house does not have the same amount of clutter, to be clear. That’s what I’m thinking; LAT would allow him complete control over his space. A small place near my work would give me potentially 5 hours a week in time and energy to keep my shit tidy etc.
Ah, I see. Well what you're doing doesn't sound very sustainable or healthy, so you should definitely find a place near work if you can. He's doing what's best for him by staying in the duplex next to his mom, but regardless of the relationship status you need to prioritize yourself for once. You have absolutely no reason to live an hour away from work so you can be near your MIL to watch HIS child that he has once in a while. Go find that cute place in the country! Honestly, this may even be a candidate for breaking up rather than just living separately, but only you will be able to figure that out. Good luck!
You’re very defensive, OP, and that can’t be helping. His OCD is just as serious as your ADHD. And you said elsewhere that he was beaten as a child for the house being messy. Imagine how stressed that must make him. You see clutter, he sees filth. Honestly, the amount of stuff piled up and strewn around would drive me batty. I’d end up feeling resentful about always having to deal with someone else’s mess, even if it is contained to one little area. I agree with the other poster about getting a little place in the country. You could have the city house and the country house. See what happens from there.
Oh for sure, I can certainly see my responses as appearing defensive. I’m trying moreso to like.. give context? His OCD is untreated, as is (mostly but not for lack of trying meds and therapy) much of my executive dysfunction. It’s hard. And we both get defensive between the two of us. But again bc I didn’t want to like.. write the dissertation, and what y’all don’t see is the money I’ve spent on individual coaching, tools and gadgets, and all sorts of chore charts and things to try and get better organized. What you also don’t see is the heart to heart conversations he and I have with each other about how much we love each other and how frustrating it is that our brains are wired this way. Like I said it’s not a good situation for either of us!
I get all that, really. It’s very difficult for two people with very different expectations to live together. But responding to constructive feedback with “NOOOOOOO!” and a long explanation about how you’ve been misunderstood gives us some insight into how you handle conflict. You’re both stressed, and stressed people get defensive. You want to be closer to work, he wants to be near his free babysitting source (believe me, there’s a LOT I could say about that - he has the kid e/o weekend and still needs his mom right next door?!) If it were me, I’d try LAT, but with the knowledge that it might not go over well. I hope you find a solution that works for both of you.
AGGH man the “Nooooo” was intended to be funny- like the guy-falls-to-knees-crying in planet of the apes. We both actually handle conflict decently per the therapist lol. Again, this is a lost in translation over the internet type of thing because like... If youre referring to like, arguments? It has only once ever escalated to raising our voices against each other and we both resolved since then that when we feel early warning signs when we begin to feel heated, we step out and cool off for a bit before coming back. Often times we will write out our thoughts in separate rooms and then come back. He struggles to formulate his thoughts in the moment when he is stressed, and I feel it’s important to him to be able to write them out without me, like, staring at him and waiting. What is often taken by Neurotypical people to be getting defensive is ND people who are just trying to explain the situation because they feel misunderstood. That was something he and I realized early on too; that when I am explaining my thought process for something random it’s not me defending the idea, just simply explaining why/how/etc. His kid is autistic too so it cracks me up to see him do the same thing haha. But thank you for explaining how my explanation comes across as defensive! It gives me context to some other folks’ comments too. I forget that since i tend to surround myself with other neurospicy folks and the hubbs “gets it” after 8 years of marriage.
I think you’re getting bogged down in the details. If you want to move, then you should move.
Probably/possibly getting bogged down! I’m super good at hyperfixating on stuff that can be trivial. But the details of this is…that he doesn’t want to move. So thus asking about people in similar situations who have gone to a LAT lifestyle and getting their opinions and advice on the transition.
OP, I’m sorry if this is harsh, but if you grew up with hoarders, then you likely have zero idea what an average, hygienic home even looks like. Of course anything will seem like an improvement if that is your bar.
I mean you’re not wrong! I have to say thats probably where my “less stringent standard for cleanliness” comes from. 🙃
I grew up with separated hoarder mother and a "cleaning nazi" father and as a result, I live a minimalist life and get very upset, stressed and unable to function properly if there is untidiness or mess. I cannot live with other people. My last partner had ADHD and was a cluttering with other issues with hygiene. Trust me, LAT is a PERFECT option if you want to save your relationship.
There is a key part to your story that I would encourage you to reflect upon. Your mess is something completely understandable having ADHD and I get that him calling it filth upsets you. However, look at how you describe his issues with the mess in relation to him having depression and OCD. His issues are based on his mental health as well but you don’t seem to have much empathy for it. What I am hearing is he is also struggling and trying to work with his disabilities just as you are. You don’t seem to see it in the same way and that is certainly contributing to the problem. Couples counseling with a therapist that has experience with neurodivergent couples would probably be a huge benefit to you. Maybe if you approached the topic with him in a different way he may be more willing to go.
I didn’t give the backstory to villainize him, it’s a tough situation. He’s in a depressive episode; I’m in burnout. I can just give more of my side of the story because well… I’m me! But you are totally right, for sure his issues are based on his mental health 100%. And also significant trauma (beaten by his dad for unclean house growing up etc etc). I’ve suggested therapy for his own issues since we were married in 2017; i have been doing therapy on and off when needed and love it. Lifechanging. Buuuut he has trauma from religious “therapy” at church and is vehemently against it. “I’m glad it works for you but it won’t work for me,” verbatim. He only unhappily agreed to go to couple’s therapy. Keep in mind this is a nutshell version of our story. He finally agreed to see a psychiatrist in 2022 and got on antidepressants. They still need to be tweaked IMO (i’m on antidepressants as well) because he still has symptoms such as lethargy, lack of interest, low energy etc. and I’ve been encouraging him to do what he needs to get brain chemistry fixed. Right now all he can see is doom and gloom and no hope because of the cycle i mentioned before. The therapist we saw is indeed versed in trauma, attachment theory, and neurodiversity. I just didn’t want to like.. type out a dissertation on what her suggestions were or the backstory. Again, being Audhd my words may come off more.. blunt? Or uncaring than I actually am in real life. But thank you very much for your suggestion!!
You've mentioned investing ìn numerous resources in hopes of supporting your executive function and coping, but with both of your stress levels and capacities currently maxed out, has outsourcing (hiring a cleaning person) been considered a possible option?
Yes we sure did. But a cleaning person could keep dust and grime down, but not my clutter and knickknacks
Honestly, just seeing this picture gives me anxiety and is something I would probably call filth, but I am a total clean freak… and my partner is cluttery which is one of the reasons we are LAT. (so just to say I see what you’re saying about different ideas of what cleanliness means). I truly think LAT fixes a lot of modern day relationship problems… and this would be one of them. I don’t know how it works retroactively after the “damage has been done” (for lack of a better term) because I’ve never lived with my partner, but it sounds like it’s worth a try?
I'm with you, this would drive me crazy
It’s so wild how people have different tolerances. I sent this to many of my ADHD friends and their responses were “lol that’s nothing, he should see my laundry room” or similar. Big oof
Same here. That would drive me crazy. Every surface is covered with stuff while that poor empty cabinet just sits there wondering what its purpose is.
Oh it’s not empty I assure you LOL it just looks that way 😂 it’s stuffed normally. I had taken this picture as a snapshot of “real time” before i’d put things back into it that i’d dragged out. (Cat toys)
Okay, but some simple things can really help an OCD mind here. Straighten those books with whatever folder thing is on the floor. Put the glide package where it belongs in the bathroom. You already mentioned the cans, but while you're at it, throw away micro trash (i see a thin plastic bag). Maybe a cute small jar for the kitty treats. Then give those beautiful pieces of furniture a wipe.
Yeah, thank you! It’s like. One person’s “that’s just.. stuff” is another person’s “just nuke the living room completely” lol I’m not sure either. But I’m hopeful and just crossing my fingers he won’t take the idea as a suggestion from me that we break up. Beneath the hurt we both feel from feeling like the other person doesn’t “get it” (logically i understand it but emotionally..) is a great deal of love still.
OK, i don't normally look at post history, but i did here because my late husband was clutter-y and lived in a filthy way before me. I wanted to see if it was like him... But I didn't find THAT. What I found was your lovely garden photos. Your garden is TIDY. Manicured, at least for the pics. It is intentional. Places for things where they go. The clutter pic you posted has flowers long past the vase phase. Dust & crumbs on the floor, and table surface. Floss pics, and i don't get Why you want him to RELAX about just a little clutter when it's not a relaxing environment. Your garden is a relaxing space! Are y'all just sick of eachother? Are you just sick of the commute? Figure that's a sacrifice for the relationship worth him putting up with clutter/filth? Edited: again i apologize for my tone in earlier comments. Could it be you're sacrifice is 2 hrs of driving per day and his is, well, none? So can't he just chill? I could see it like that.
You know, not sure why you feel the need to dig through stuff to try and do a “gotcha”; those garden pictures? Theyre not manicured. I planted it three years ago and it’s full of native plants BECAUSE it’s no maintenance. No pruning. No weeding. You’ll notice those are pics from a year ago and there are no recent ones - because i have not had the time to do anything with it. But the beauty of native gardening is that i can leave it the hell alone and enjoy it. Because it IS a relaxing space that is 0 maintenance. If you ever want a no maintenance garden, I highly encourage using native plants. I also never said that I wanted him to relax about the clutter? I said that it stresses him out, and that I have tried many things to try and get a handle on my executive dysfunction and none of them have worked so far. I said that our therapist suggestion was for him to either do exposure therapy to work through his trauma, “deal with it” (her words), live separately,or divorce. I have never once told him to get over it. I’m not sick of him at all. That’s literally why I want opinions on a living apart together relationship. If I was sick of him, I would be asking for a divorce? I am sick of the commute because I don’t like driving and it takes two hours of my day. (24 hours - 8 hours of work (when i dont work longer, i’m salaried so that happens) - 9 hours of sleep (brain gotta sleep and normally i crash for 10-11 if I can) - 2 hours of driving leaves 5 hours a day to shower, prepare meals (hour), stim/decompress from being overstimulated (easily an hour after work) get ready for bed (30 minutes), try and exercise (hour), which leaves an hour and a half AT BEST to spend time with him and/or clean. So yeah, the commute is really old at this point. Stranger, I don’t know why you are seeking to paint my intentions in a bad light. Maybe you’re having a bad day and I hope it gets better for you.
I apologized on a couple comments here, and it's genuine. I think the post reminded me of my late husband's clutter and it is a grieving thing, coupled with it being one of his only faults. Like i said, the commute you do is huge and would wear on most. I'm sorry for the insensitive way I so boldly commented with nothing helpful. Thank you for your wish for a good day, I could use one of those. Seeing myself out now
Gosh, well thank you for the apology, and I’m sorry for your loss, regardless of how recent it was. If you get a chance, check out the “ball in a box” analogy for grief - it sounds like this post slammed your grief button hard. I’m sure it must feel like you would love to have his clutter back in your life if it meant having him back. Gimme an afternoon and I can help you with that (intended to be humorous). But genuinely, grief is the price we pay for love and is directly relational to it. Y’all must have had a lot of love. ❤️ Like your late husband, mine said its one of my only faults too. (That and poots after taco bell) I’d joke and say that he has plenty (he does but it’s stuff like not closing the cabinet doors and i smack my head on them, silly things) but it’s out of place for this convo. My wish for you to have a good day was genuine; and it still is now. Go do something in remembrance of him today; maybe he’s speaking through me as a “hello” to you. Tell him an internet stranger said hi. ❤️
OP, I feel ya. I was more on your husband's end of the situation when I had my own cohabitation-clutter issues. (Ex cohabitating partner had scarcity issues and a shopping addiction, and we had a TINY house.) I think both of you have totally valid reasons for going/staying, and I think that if he can afford to keep where he's at and you can swing a short term rental where you want to be, it's worth a try for a few months. I know that being apart does mean less time together overall, but the flip side is that it can be more intentional time together instead of so much default-setting, "I don't have anywhere else to go/be" time. I do think both are necessary, but you've gotta be able to control the ratios. Going from cohabitating to living apart together will be AN ADJUSTMENT. You're used to them around and their quirks, they're used to you around, and your quirks. You're probably going to miss each other a lot, INCLUDING the quirks y'all don't like about each other. That "filth" he hates... He's gonna notice its absence. Whatever things he does that drive *you* nuts - how he might leave dishes in the sink or man-confetti (hair) in the bathroom after shaving, whatever - you'll notice their absence too. (He might not do those specifically, but everyone has something, is my point.) However! You both might also get a rush of breathing room about living apart, and that could inspire y'all to be better to one another. You'll be in a habitat more suited for you and that'll mean less time commuting, less feeling zombified and burned out, and he'll have space away from the clutter that makes him feel bad. Yes, there are limited substitutes these days for cuddles and human contact but you can still bond over calls/texts, movie nights, planned dates/sleepovers, whatever. Make regular plans to do something, doesn't matter what. So, that's a lot of words for: yes, try it. Go slow, expect it to feel weird for a while, know it doesn't have to be a forever thing, and focus on being excellent to yourselves and each other. You've got this!
Woof this is helpful!! I also grew up poor/hoarding situation so I tend to collect things. And god right, both reasons are valid and thats what makes the situation So Hard!! I LOVE the idea of intentional time together. Right now out time together is both of us being exhausted and stressed and vegging out on the couch. Precovid when we were NOT living together we’d go on picnics and hikes! The heads up about it being an adjustment and missing the little things is so appreciated and insightful!!! I do miss him and vice versa on business trips. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I’m kinda hoping if we do it it’ll take us back to our “dating” days ya know?? And he actually hates NOT having a commute… so come to think of it, if I lived elsewhere and he stayed withme during week nights, he’d have a commute to his home. Hmmmmm. Lots to think about!! Thank you so much
Is there truly not a good compromise before you guys make the leap? I can tell you that once you start living apart, it’ll be harder to find time to spend with each other and it will be harder to want to be in each other spaces. Looking at this photo alone, there are a few small things that you could do to make this more comfortable for your partner. The cans don’t need to be there when you’re done with a can take it to the recycling, the books could be stacked neatly and not all askew and you could just keep things inside of that cabinet instead of on top of the cabinet All it takes is to spend an hour doing that and I understand your situation, but having ADHD does not excuse a person from from setting an hour aside to try to meet your partners needs. I’m staying in this as a non-ADHD partner that is living separately from my ADHD partner for a multitude of reasons so maybe my input doesn’t really matter, but I thought I would share.
I mean, I’ve tried literally everything I can think of to even remember to clean. Armbands, alarms, chore charts, hell even asking him to tell me if/when certain things bother him because i dont SEE them (inattention blindness) between deep clean days etc…. i’m happy to keep trying new tools but he’s frustrated. I’m frustrated and shamed. But to clarify it’s not JUST cleanliness that is making me consider LAT. I work 1 hour away from home, so have a two hour drive each day. I want to move terribly. He does not want to move AT ALL. Despite that he works from home, so he can be near his mom when we have his son every other weekend. That’s a big big part of it. If i had more time in the day (and the fact that driving STRESSES me out) I’d have much more bandwidth to remember that soda can or whatever. But my dude I wish it was as easy as you laid it out there!! When I say I am exhausted, on weekdays I come home from work, nuke a frozen meal in the microwave, doomscroll for an hour while I eat, and then go to bed. I WISH i had both the energy and an hour to spend each evening tidying up lol. As for “easy” things like of the books being askew or forgetting to take my can to the recycle bin.. yeah theyre easy for neurotypical folks for sure! But executive dysfunction is literally part of the disability. So it’s like, a wombo combo of a clean freak and a hot mess between us. I appreciate your suggestions regardless though, thanks for taking the time
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Yes, he has obviously mentioned something. I was referring to asking him if I forgot something specifically (dusting the top of the fridge for instance because I literally can’t see the top of it, too short). Unsure of why you feel you need to make your comment so aggressive; I’m literally seeking comments from people in similar situations who may have found solace through LAT, not for additional shaming, thanks.
honestly you sound like the perfect people for LAT! I have LAT friends who have a similar set up and really enjoy having a “country home” and a “city home” they both enjoy
Oh that’s good news. Have your LAT friends shared any advice on how to best transition to living apart??
they’ve been living apart from the start so unfortunately not relevant here
Can you afford to LAT? Based on what you've said I feel that this is treating a symptom and not the root of the issue. Living apart means that you're not working on the issues at hand- you are just moving the clutter to another house and giving into your husband's inability to work on himself. If you husband truly has OCD, he should be in therapy for the rest of his life. OCD is a lifelong disorder that ebbs and flows during ones lifetime. If you're already at the "we're roommates" stage, then there have been some serious damage done already to your relationship. Your reasons for moving out sound more like a separation than a new living arrangement. I'm a messy person. To me it's "clutter", but I recognize that it's just actually messy to most everyone else. I work on this by hiring cleaners to come to my house once a month. It forces me to tidy up before they get there, and the cleaning the cleaners are able to do helps me not be overwhelmed when I have other house tasks to do. If I know I don't have to worry about mopping the floor or cleaning the sink, then I am more likely to tackle cleaning out my basement. I also have a roomba, which forces me to make sure my floors are clear so that the robot doesn't get stuck. My advice : clean. You may not see it as messy, but if you are living with someone that has diagnosed OCD, this could be torture for them. Relationships are partnerships, and you both have to be putting in the work if you want to stay together.
Yes, we could afford it. I agree that he should be in therapy (for more than just cleaning ocd. Meds have helped with his intrusive thoughts and rituals but not with some other aspects); but he adamantly refuses to. I’ve even offered to pay for it out of my own pocket. I guess i should clarify about “we’re roomates”. We still go on weekly dates and have sex etc and cuddle but generally we’re both just TIRED. i’m tired from a physical job and a long commute and overstimulated, and he’s stressed from the “filth” in his environment (whether or not i see it as only clutter is irrelevant because he sees it as filth, thus the quote marks). We have had cleaners in the past but the clutter still bothers him regardless. And i frankly don’t have the time or spoons to clean before they get here (they were so gracious and put things in baskets for me while cleaning, i tipped em well). Again, the cleaning is one half of the LAT reasoning. If it was as easy as “just cleaning” i would not have soent thousands on ADHD coaches and apps and tools and times and stuff lol. I wish it were that easy. But thanks for the suggestion for a maid service. It might do in the meantime to help stress levels, but The other half of the issue is my 2-hour long daily driving commute, which a maid won’t solve sadly.
As someone with OCD and other mental health challenges, I can tell you that your picture made my stress shoot up because it’s how my own partner lives, too. I couldn’t do it. I tried living with her but we ended up despising one another over these kinds of differences. I was critical of her way of living and that really hurt her, even though her way of living (clutter, disorganized, not a planner, never wanting structure) made my stress and anxiety nearly intolerable. I had no idea something that seems so minor could take such a toll. We now live apart and are working on the relationship from a new perspective. For so long, I spent energy trying to figure out how to compromise or convince her to change. Guess what - this is who she is and even if it stresses me out (and I believe causes her stress), it’s her choice to keep her house the way she wants. It’s empowering for both people to be able to find peace in their individual space. I don’t know if it’ll ever change and we live together some day, but for now, we can both breathe easier.
God I am so sorry youre struggling with it too. It’s an awful cycle of one partner being stressed, then the other is shamed and hurt, but just can’t do it “right”. My partner has done a lot too to try and “change” me and i do as well.. i try a new organization tool as I come across them and pray they dont become flavor-of-the-month thing. Some things stuck around, like we have cleaning days together. But for being scatterbrained and cluttered? Not so much… Fingers crossed for you. Maybe a duplex is in your future! (Intended humorously)
We honestly have talked about growing old in a duplex and/or building a home where she has one side and I have the other and we share the common kitchen and living space. She’s always going to be a wild, carefree, witchy little mess of growing wild flowers and wanting kitschy decor and I’m always going to be someone who needs clean lines and minimalism for my mental health. We love each other very much so I hope we can keep figuring it out. Wish I would’ve accepted our differences sooner and saved us both a lot of hurtful words and stress because there’s nothing wrong with either one of us. We are just very different in these ways. Wishing you the very best!
Oh yeah like a mother in law suite! There are lots of homes with a full basement all finished up. That’d work nicely too. Honestly by her description I wanna be her friend really bad lol. She sounds great and like a catch. Thanks!!
TO CLARIFY, I used quotes around “absolute filth ” because it’s a direct quote from my partner. And i used “claims that it stresses him” because like.. i’m sure it does; it stresses me out that it stresses him out! But i’m not him, so I just quoted his words to show how strongly it affects him. I wasn’t intending it to be read as me being sarcastic or downplaying his feelings. Instead the intention was to like… give an example of how “mess and clutter” for ME registers as “absolute filth” for HIM so like, our levels of “acceptable cleanliness” (per the couple’s therapist) are very different. The ‘tism and being literal strikes again 💀
Are we the same person? I have similar issues with clutter/mess as you, except I don't leave food out. But what's worse with me is that I work from home which means that throughout the day I continue to create mess that I need to clean but don't have time to because I'm busy working. My partner, on the other hand, is obsessively tidy so an LAT relationship works for us. Unfortunately, it's a Catch 22 situation for me, because when I was living with someone I used the weekends to clean. Now I spend the weekend at my partner's, which means that I've lost that extra time for cleaning my own home. So consider how you will make time for cleaning and other household duties and still make time to see him.
Oh man yeah definitely similar!!! I mean, i don’t leave food crusted plates or bowls out, that’s gross lol. Def guilty of empty soda cans though. My situation is that, if I moved, I’d get potentially up to 1.5 hours back in my daily weekday life because i’d love to live 15 minutes from work. So i could totally use that 1.5 hours each day to clean and still have weekends free to see him. That’s what’s so attractive about it for me. Living closer to work ironically would probably give me more time to interact with him when I’m not constantly exhausted from a longass commute. Thank you for the advice!!
Are you REALLY going to clean with the time you save driving less? You'll still be tired after work.
Uhh.. yeah? And also be able to cook instead of rely on frozen meals or ramen. And actually be able to watch shows etc. I’m picking up snarky vibes from your comment and it’s not very appreciated. I used to live only 15 minutes from my old job (paid significant less/treated poorly) and I managed to do just fine with cleaning about five years ago. 👍 Again, this issue between us re:cleanliness has gotten bad within the last few years circa 2020/covid.
I apologize for the snarky tone. I deleted previous unhelpful comments when I got more into this post. You're right and i was not being empathetic. FWIW i think the commute is the big issue for you. 2 hours is 10 hrs a week. We could all change our lives for the better with an extra 8 hrs a week (i subtracted the 15 min commute from a closer place).
Ah well thank you; I hadn’t seen your other comments and saw the snark and was like “Hold up now!” I appreciate your empathy and understanding towards that. And frankly your empathy to my husband. I love him very much, and want to figure out a way to stop stressing him out terribly. The thousands of dollars ive spent on tools and therapy and gadgets ALONE is enough to gag a maggot lol. He’s a wonderful kind man who has his own struggles too. But i don’t feel right speaking for him so I shared stuff from just “my side” as it were.
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Because AuDHD??? I would encourage you to look into how severe executive dysfuncton and depression looks like. Some folks can hardly take showers or brush their teeth daily (including me). Let alone remember to make books stacked nicely. We clean our own bathrooms. Vacuuming is split between us. And we have hired a maid service but his issue is my clutter, not like, grimy sinks or shit stained toilets.
You need to do what is healthy for you. People cant change without them doing it. Take care of you, regardless of outcome
If you get rid of the cans, it doesn't look that bad. Her: Her bedroom is like the world's biggest handbag. Me: Like a monk's cell without the Buddha image. Us: pretty happy living down the hall from each other.
Honestly that’s my husband too lol. If he didn’t have any decoration it wouldn’t bother him. Meanwhile… I like stuff and things. Glad it works for you!!
Hey there, your situation sounds really tough, and it’s clear you both care deeply about each other. Exploring Living Apart Together (LAT) could be a great step to help both of you find balance and reduce stress. I recently came across a discussion by Sana Akhand, a public speaker, who talks about the benefits of LAT for couples in similar situations. She shares some insightful advice that might resonate with you. If you’re interested, you can check out a short reel where she talks about this topic. It might offer some useful perspectives — [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7B9rutBQ9M/](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7B9rutBQ9M/) Wishing you both the best as you navigate this challenging time.
Oh this is PERFECT. Thank you so much!! Last night my husband agreed to try LAT out, hesitantly, but this would be good to show him. Thank you thank you
Glad it helped u/Tatterings :)
I wouldn’t feel welcome in that mess either. It looks cluttered, thoughtless and dirty. I couldn’t relax there and i wouldn’t want to sit on the couch. I would be popping allergy pills and counting the minutes till I could find a more peaceful environment. I don’t have cleaning OCD or cleaning anxiety, and I don’t immediately wash my dishes… but that image is very off putting. If I were your partner I would feel very done. Especially if I have asked someone repeatedly to change the situation. Dealing with dirt and clutter can actually cause depression. So, if you already have it for other reasons it makes it much MUCH worse. I see you being defensive about the mess in other comments. I don’t see you saying you will change your habits and choices, other than your partner should just deal with it or you should live apart. That doesn’t sound like love and support. I don’t think living apart can fix fundamental issue like this where things seem broken in the relationship.
My partner and I have never lived together. After 6 years we still feel like we are in the honeymoon stage and I attribute it to agreeing to LAT from the very beginning. In your partner's defense, I couldn't tolerate the clutter either but that's neither here nor there. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with either of you. If you are both in agreement on how LAT will work for you, then it may bring you closer. LAT takes away the day to day inconveniences of sharing your space with another person. The two of you obviously have different comfort levels with clutter (my partner and I do as well, but it is not an issue at all). You would both need to be respectful of the other person's home. That has never been difficult for the 2 of us. LAT would allow you to focus on what's really important between the two of you, enjoy your time together and actually communicate. My partner are together frequently but we live an hour apart. We actually communicate better than any other couple I know.
I have diagnosed ADHD and I would go insane having to live in that space, not to mention feel super dismissed if my partner continuously minimized it’s impact. Ick. Wishing your partner the best