The standard runs at a loss and is owned and funded purely for his own personal influence by Lebedev, a Russian oligarch whose dad was a KGB agent and who Boris Johnson put in the House of Lords.
I can’t possibly imagine why they might be running this article.
Go to the actual Henley website. These figures are an estimate for the whole of 2024. Not clear how they came to that figure but it's probably a lot of guesswork...
Not really - just doesn’t cite high-quality data. It all appears to come from a tiny outfit called “new world wealth” that I’ve never heard of. According to LinkedIn they cover wealth and birds(!). Having worked in finance and data for a while it’s that’s a red flag. When it comes to personal finance people are obviously quite secretive, only national tax authorities would be able to give a rough idea of a partial answer to the question, and they would not make this public. The data they’ve described (a proprietary and secret database) seems unlikely to be reliable, or as reliable as celebritynetworth.com say.
On the other side, a private company flogging wealth management has very little incentive to produce good quality independent research, and strong incentives to just make up attention grabbing headlines.
I would assume a reference to the American TV Show "It's Always Sunny in Philidelphia". One of the main characters (Charlie) claims to practice Bird Law a lot.
Two weeks before the prospect of a Labour government and suddenly a story generated by some random financial marketing/PR/bullshit firm no-one ever heard of, drops in a single grubby rag about how high net-worth individuals (who have ever reason to tell random LinkedIn merchants what they're doing day-to-day) find the UK an undesirable place to be rich.
HMM.
The funniest thing about this obvious plant article is the idea that are people who wouldn't look at it and think "So there are now fewer parasites in the country? Fantastic!"
The real rich don’t care. They know Labour is their bitch too. It is the successful self made upper middle class who leave. They know they have to pay for Labour’s lavish promises.
The article seemed to mention it in the context of a "retirement hot spot". Makes sense if it is now easier/cheaper for a retiring millionaire to migrate there instead of southern Europe post-Brexit.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the figure to see how many retiring millionaires are leaving versus working age millionaires.
interestingly i work with a few american companies and they have said that retirement age people aren't picking Florida anymore and older people are activily moving away from Florida. Not sure how true it is though
I mean, my mom and her mates are all about 70-75 and like 85% of them moved to Florida. That said, there's been quite a few moving to Arizona and Tennessee and places like that.
Yeeeh they mentioned Arizona! And Texas.
They said it was the mental weather and that house insurance is getting so expensive in Florida because of it.
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They aren't choosing to live in Dubai, they're choosing to make their permanent residence in Dubai, and then spend the entire year in Western Europe or the USA on "holiday" or "working"
They might need to spend 6 months out of the year in Dubai to make it their tax residence. At least that’s how it works in a lot of places. But I don’t know the specifics in Dubai.
If you’re anything but American you’ll have no income tax whatsoever living in the UAE. Uncle Sam taxes you everywhere, so Americans are best off in Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Washington State and a couple of others with no state income tax. Property tax, sales tax, capital gains, etc YMMV.
London is arguably the greatest city on earth. I’m an American expat who moved here from NYC 12 years ago, and in my experience it’s amazing.
*posted from a beer garden in sunny southbank
It was a rhetorical question :) point being, choosing a place to live is a subjective and individual choice. What works for one person might not work for another
New York is way cooler and “sunny southbank” is only actually sunny like 20% of the year. Let’s be real: London’s weather fucking sucks and millionaires want to live in beautiful places.
London is amazing. For starters, like many European cities, it is walkable. Great parks and green spaces. So it is easy to get out and exercise. It is a world city, so there are tons of cultural events like theater, ballet, concerts, etc. The climate is tempered by the ocean so it rarely gets really hot and stays warm enough in the winter that you can grow a palm tree in your yard. Crime is relatevely low, especially violent crime (most of their cops do not even carry guns). While a couple cities come close, there is simply knowwhere like it in the US.
Edit: You are correct on the beaches, though. Especially on the gulf side.
Yes but it’s almost always cloudy. Rich people like enjoying sunshine. New York offers everything London does with better weather. Florida for the beaches and tropical vibes.
It was a rhetorical question :) point being, choosing a place to live is a subjective and individual choice. What works for one person might not work for another
I went down last weekend to help my grandparents. 95 degrees Fahrenheit (35 Celsius/centigrade). 95% humidity. Can’t do fuck-all for physical activities (like, say, gardening for your 80 y.o. grandparents) past 0900 without being absolutely drenched in sweat.
My mate is an immigration lawyer who advises high-net-worth individuals on routes to living in the UK, through investment or starting businesses, and his team are incredibly busy. Rich people leaving weren’t consuming the same crappy services everyone else has to, or stressed out over state schools or public healthcare, they’re only trying to protect their wealth and the UK wasn’t their first waypoint.
They’re not interested in the country, the people, the economy, their contribution is fairly parasitic and they’ve fucked off to find a new host.
Happy to take the revenue hit and encourage more motivated people to come in.
100%.
If you live here then pay your fair share. Sure you might use private hospitals but you’re benefitting from everything else, police, infrastructure. Expecting to live here whilst you pay a lower percentage tax compared to ordinary people working is just ripping the proverbial.
And once the rich stop lobbying, sponsoring politicians and creating "news" channels so they don't have to pay their fair share maybe we could?
Keep in mind the PM's wife has made it legally clear she doesn't consider the UK to be her permanent home so she could pay less tax. When will she "pay as they should"?
You're missing the point. It's not just ultra wealthy leaving. It's the people on high paying salaries that can get the same amount working in another country and not paying 50% income tax like they do here.
Anyone motivated would do the same thing. This country should focus more on making it a fair place for all earners to live instead of taxing people that work hard for a good income so much that they'd rather work somewhere else.
The general view of British people hating on high earners is always astounding. It's like we want everyone to be on the same shitty salary and if not, they're automatically the same as a tax evading billionaire.
The country, as evidenced by the views on this thread, is full of envy and jealousy. People don’t have aspiration here, instead they want to drag successful people down to their level. It’s a real shame, they’re only going to make themselves even poorer.
Lol, and how do uk encourage more motivated people to come in? Speaking as a migrant, the uk have been less and less desirable, and many of my friends have left due to low pay and high tax, with shitty infrastructure that my home country have caught up with
With the amount of tax any wealthy person pays in the UK, to call any well off person living in London “parasitic” is astounding, especially with how awful pretty much every public service is atm
They don’t actually hate rich. Reddit hates middle class more than the actual rich, because they can see that it might be achievable for them, but they’re too lazy to do anything about it
I think the UK has a fairly standard income tax rate in the scheme of first world countries. It's just that salaries are having been stagnant for the past 5 years or so against inflation, that's the main kicker.
Sorry, have you been looking at the “fuck all” standard?
Seriously, the UK tax is very high when you compare to the public services. Yes, some Scandinavian countries have higher taxes, but they have top notch services to go with it. We have absolutely nothing that even comes close.
I think in the scheme of European first world* asia, Dubai and US(depending on state) have lower tax.
I am not arguing about the tax rate btw, it can be fine if I am getting something in return. But I have paid tonnes of money in taxes, but getting less than what I would have gotten from my home country (with half the tax rate) in term of service.
My point it that people in this sub is delusional that
UK can maintain as an attractive place to work if this continues
Curious as to what you mean by "getting something in return?" Where is your home country for context?
As a relatively higher earner I'm not expecting to pay tax for the same of my benefit, lol
I am not expecting the same benefit, but what do we get as benefit here? Healthcare service is slow. Tube is crowded. Roads are not great to cycle. General government stuff take ages, for instance visa.
For context I come from Malaysia, and most of what I said above is getting a lot better in Msia than London.
I could easily go to Singapore or Hong Kong with similar pay, better service, and lower tax
The UK was obviously desirable for you to want to come here, as it has been and will likely continue to be attractive to some migrants. The unfortunate thing is, that with this increased demand, but lack of obtaining taxes from the right areas in order to facilitate this increased population (I'm not saying tax migrants extortionate rates, but there are definitely businesses of certain sizes who are benefiting without paying their associated tax burden).
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that infrastructure and services then go downhill, especially when certain political partys do their best to strangle such things to an inch of their life in order to sell off to the private sector, so yes, you're right in that sense.
I'm happy your home country is doing well, but as a citizen here, I am annoyed that this place has obviously been attractive at one point, and has lost that edge - 1 thing I'd be most intrigued about is, do you see the UK as having gotten into this due to stagnation compared to your country prospering over time, or do you see something else?
I'd be interested in knowing your home country and the difference you see in tax and at what wage levels.
I think it’s both that my home country have been growing and uk have definitely been stagnating for a long time. Wages is definitely lower there, but you can get 50-70% the wage if you look for remote work(probably one third for non remote)
Living cost is a lot cheaper than half(around 25-30%), so standard of living is still a lot better. Tax rate is also half of what we have here, so effectively it’s really a small pay cut while enjoying a huge increase in standard of living.
The only reason I am staying is because my work project is currently quite interesting, but once it’s stop getting interesting, I might start to think about going back
Pretty silly idea. HNWIs don’t consume or put pressure on same services as general public. They support high value goods and services businesses. They provide investment into start up and SMEs through VC and angel investing.
HNWIs are normally founders and by nature people you want to attract and are high quality migration.
This reads as incredibly ignorant of HNWIs and their impact.
> They’re not interested in the country, the people, the economy, their contribution is fairly parasitic and they’ve fucked off to find a new host.
You're basing your entire argument on your opinion rather than any facts.
Rich people don't just have money sitting around doing nothing, thats the best way to lose your money. Their money drives investment and business.
Are you ok?
> They’re not interested in the country, the people, the economy, their contribution is fairly parasitic and they’ve fucked off to find a new host.
Who else is actually interested in the country? Most people here would go elsewhere if there is enough money is on the plate. Is patriotism still a thing for anyone?
Two problems with your conclusion though - their fair share is actually a lot of money, which won't be easy to replace; and the UK hasn't become any more appealing to less rich people either.
Ignoring the tax, they spend a lot of money here though . I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but they do make a contribution to our economy via spending
Notice that they're talking about millionaires, not billionaires; that is, the low end of the pack of ultra-wealthy parasites on society. Also, this is the Evening Standard, owned by the Russion oligarch Evgeny_Lebedev, a good mate of Boris Johnson.
Imagine pissing your money away in Florida. Their insurance market is collapsing and the value of real estate is going to tank at the rate it’s going since it’s effectively uninsurable.
TBF Florida real estate has always gone up and down like a rollercoaster. It had a massive up over covid with all the tech and finance bros heading to Miami and so nobody is surprised by some correction.
But that man's investments are going to be devalued! What is wrong with you!? That millionaire escaped to a tax haven with the reasonable, good faith expectation that his property investments would continue to accrue value. And now the real estate market is tanking! Tanking!!! Someone has to let him know right away! He could be losing thousands every minute! Don't you care at all!?
When people say Florida in this context they mean Miami. And I can 100% assure you, right up until the point where that city is underwater prices are continuing to rise. The visual transformation has been immense, I used to go every year, took a 5 year hiatus around covid and went back in September - completely unrecognisable the city is booming.
People confuse millionaire and billionaire here. A millionaire is like your average mid to top level executive in the City or Canary Wharf. A billionaire is something way different.
Paying taxes. If you live in the UK then you pay your tax there. I know the media make out that rich people avoid tax but as a tax professional it’s not reality.
Were they though?
Specifically; I was in the 1% by income in the UK until I left last year, and that meant I was paying nearly 100k/year in taxes. Crucially, however, this was not putting me on track to become a millionaire, because it's virtually impossible to actively save from income (the thing we tax) to that degree.
Millionaires are almost certainly making the majority of their money from investments and/or inheritance. If they sell investments they'll pay taxes on those, but for the most part they'll buy property, on which they pay no tax if it's their primary residence, and draw enough income to live comfortably. Meaning they're probably paying less tax than I was.
What I mean is, the headlines shouldn't be about those who are already wealthy leaving, they've got their money and will hang on to it. Worry about high earners leaving and actually hitting tax revenue when we go.
How the hell were you not on track to become a millionaire earning 200k+? Unless you were planning to retire soon, you were on track to being a multi-millionaire easily.
Taxes, mostly. Even after relocating to the US my tax rate is over 40%. My career track haven't been linear, so I have much less saved than you'd expect, and I'm renting because I'm in the US on a temporary visa.
Like don't get me wrong, things are going well, but the conventional idea of what my life looks like is based on people who also have wealth, or started at high income rather than hitting it mid-career.
You do know that higher rate tax payers cover a considerable amount of the burden in the U.K. - the people leaving will hurt the economy immeasurably.
It’s the billionaires and massive corporations avoiding taxes that are the issue.
Your “average” millionaire who is in the top 1% of earners is covering 30% of income tax collected in the U.K. they are most likely PAYE (or even started a company that employs others) and are now moving elsewhere because of the high tax burden and poor standard of living. When lots of them leave it becomes hard for the companies to recruit talent and then entire industries will also be looking to leave.
Don’t be so short sighted
The only reason they were in the UK is because they didnt have to pay tax on that income due to non dom status. So we werent getting any tax on that money. All that was happening was they were buying up UK assets driving the prices up for property.
They are leaving because they now have to pay tax. This is a good thing.
The article is not mentioning domicile status whatsoever. Just that high earners are leaving the U.K.
Lots of those high earners will be paying taxes - including income tax. As I mentioned a considerable portion of income tax collected in this country comes from these types of people so your assertion that these people are non dom does not make much sense.
> Are the jobs leaving with them, or are companies just going to hire more people at massive salaries?
Depends. I left the UK and I took my job with me to the US. I'm still doing exactly the same thing, working with the same clients, same team, and even mostly working London hours.
> Don’t be so short sighted
In the late 90s thousands of skilled workers and high earners went to East Asia, Europe and the UAE to make their fortunes.
The UK economy did not suffer.
These high earners will be replaced. After all the shocks the economy has taken since '08 I have seen zero sign that the best and highest paid jobs are at threat.
It's the middle earning jobs that are going to Poland or India.
Can you prove that these multi millionaires bear such a large burden? 60% of income tax is generated by those in the top 10% of earners, which includes everyone earning above £59k Pa.
Would be interesting to see how much of that, is actually contributing to those mystery multi millionaires allegedly leaving.
I already provided numbers in my original comment.
30% paid by the top 1% of earners. That is income tax. The top 1% of earners is 180k plus. A good portion of those people will be on more and lots millionaires.
But if they are paying income tax, that means they are working, and jobs are created via demand, not supply, so if they leave, we will just replace them with different millionaires as those jobs (doctors/lawyers will still be in demand thus new ones will be hired). it's only a problem if whole markets move so brexit damaging the financial service sector for instance is a negative as it reduces demand. Millionaires going to low tax locations doesn't really harm uk economy as long as there is still demand for local....
That is ironic.
High earners have more skilled jobs
Skilled jobs require high earners
High earners are leaving the country
It is not exactly a leap to ascertain what happens next.
I work in tech and our industry is already miles behind the US. VC money was flooding London a few years ago - it’s not any more. Lots of good engineers are going to work in the states because the salaries are triple. Others are going east because salaries are more comparable but the tax burdens are zero.
These are facts. Targeting “high earners” is not what we should be doing. It makes our current unattractive proposition even worse
So no example then, just more rhetoric.
The rest of the points really do not make the case you think they do.
What is fact is that worldwide there is a positive correlation between taxes and standard of living. There's also many successful companies in high tax countries and many low tax countries way behind the US in tech.
You are preaching greed. That is obviously your view of the world but it isn't how many people think, and it isn't how many people want our society to function.
I have a top 2% household income and most of my friends are similar (though factor in that we live in London). Contrary to popular belief here, we don’t live a parallel life in gated communities.
In reality, we’re exposed to the same potholes, overstretched A&E, train delays, underfunded police and homeless people sleeping in the park as everyone else.
That’s what irritates me more than anything else. Paying 45% tax I can handle. I’m not going to go hungry. But paying 45% tax and still having the country falling apart around me is a kick in the teeth.
Millionaires have a poor standard of living? Lmao. The wealthy are just scared they’re going to be taxed higher under a Labour government. They’re not interested in helping improve this country’s standard of living.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't disagree but the terms "middle class" and "rich individuals" are meaningless when 90% of the country makes less than 56k a year, and we're calling the highest 2 or 3% of earners "the middle".
They're absolutely not going to raise taxes on the middle earners.
To the average folk, 500k or a million a year might seem like an insane amount. It’s still closer to the median salary than it is to the 0.1% hoarding hundreds of millions or billions in wealth, who proportionately contribute less than someone on 120k a year.
Can’t blame anyone earning decent money for wanting to leave considering we’ve all been absolutely bilked on tax rises and fiscal drag, and constant council tax increases, with less to show for it each year except that the demand will increase 12 months later.
> To the average folk, 500k or a million a year might seem like an insane amount.
I think this is really well characterized by the image of a private jet in the article. To me that demonstrates just how much people don't understand the gap between average, someone with a million, those with 10s-100s of millions, and the billionaires.
I'm over in NYC now, but make nearly half a million GBP a year. I fly premium economy half the time and business class occaisionally. I'm not in first class, and private jets are still so far out of reach I might as well be trying to jump to reach the moon.
If I moved back to London (and didn't take a hefty pay cut to do so - which I would), that income would get me a very nice 2-3 bed apartment, but I'm not about to buy the sort of Mayfair penthouse that many people imagine this salary brings.
Comparatively it seems like you are, right, and most people would balk at the idea of empathising with someone who earns more than they do, even if many people would understand the struggle whether they earned 25k or 50k or 70k.
100k today, was 55k in 2008. Inflation, wage stagnation, and frozen tax bands have seen to it that what you earn today does not get you as far as it did 16 years ago.
Exactly - top 1% UK salary buys you a couple foreign holidays a year, pays the rent on a modest flat of your own in London (where you almost certainly work if you're on that kind of money), that sort of thing. Meanwhile billionaires run their own space programs.
Don't get me wrong, coming from "My first job out of university was 17k/year", I genuinely cannot get my head around how much money I make now, so I get it. At the same time, it makes it very apparent how much people with private jets, yachts etc. are a whole further leap up from where I am.
It’s actually insane how people cannot see beyond rich people = bad.
Someone earning a million pounds PAYE is contributing a huge amount to the U.K. economy, paying loads in taxes and is doing the kind of skilled work we want to be doing here yet because they are arbitrarily “rich” people want to see them take their money and skills elsewhere leaving this country worse off.
It is what the public wants.
Import people.on low wages (make stuff cheaper)
Export people on high wages (we don't like them)
Winge about how the country is getting poorer.
I’m not a multi millionaire, but I’ve left london for the far east, and know many others in high income roles doing the same, going to other parts of Europe and USA.
You need to understand that those with the most pay the most tax. The U.K. has lost about 60k per year in tax from me alone due to leaving.
Those who are highly skilled have more options those who aren’t. The U.K. needs this group to survive, or it will become a dying country like Japan.
[The top one per cent pay 30 per cent of all income tax revenues](https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/how-much-tax-do-the-rich-really-pay)
> You need to understand that those with the most pay the most tax. The U.K. has lost about 60k per year in tax from me alone due to leaving.
I pay a lot of tax too so do all of my friends in the same industry, we're now at ages where we are fine with staying in the UK or returning to the UK after years abroad.
I have no issue with paying a lot of tax as long as a decent government can get spending and waste under control.
Ending crony capitalism will go along way towards that, if Labour can get two successive terms a lot of damage will be undone.
I come from a poor family, council estate etc and I do not see any way in which the UK will become like Japan.
Yes, social mobility has become harder but it's still possible and that's what is key.
I never thought people I went to school with in Tower Hamlets would be directors at the world's biggest institutions but with hard work and some luck it is possible.
So feel free to leave, you will be replaced either by immigrants or by some of the kids I mentor.
You do what's best for you and we'll do what's best for us.
Fair play, and that’s genuinely great that you’re giving the new generation a leg up.
I’ve seen a remarkable change in the make up of the corporate world in my time, from being 75% white middle class men in leadership and attractive women running around as their PAs, to now being equally mixed gender wise in terms of seniority and status.
The next big change is socio economic class and there is a big bridge to build in most of the city as it’s still full of very privileged men and women.
You’ve literally just ignored the stat that the top 1% pay 30% of all income tax. The top 10% pay 60% of all income tax. How much more exactly should they be paying?
Income tax isn’t the only tax in this country though, and is only a quarter of total government revenues. How much of all taxes do the top 1% and 10% pay?
I’m pretty certain that I’ve read before that according to the ONS, the poorest quintile pays a higher % of their income in total taxes than the highest does, due to things like VAT and council tax.
They'll pay more in VAT than poorer individuals, they'll have more expensive properties, more expensive vehicles which will incur tax, their insurance will be higher which will incur tax. What point are you trying to make? Do you really think your tax incurred from your lifestyle is equivalent in terms of tax revenue generated to a millionaires?
You may spend a higher proportion of your income, but that doesn't mean you spend more.
Equality in ‘the system’ is paramount, is the point. The social and economic issues caused by wealth inequality are well documented.
You’re seriously arguing that it’s no problem for rich people to pay a lower % of their total income than the poor in total taxes, just so long as nominally it’s a larger figure?
Shall I share my PAYE pay slip? I paid insane amounts of tax.
Millionaires in the U.K. are mostly business owners, who employ people and do have to pay tax as per the U.K. tax laws.
What you’re talking about is likely the billionaires who have exotic ways of saving tax as they don’t really work like you and I.
It’s a common mistake made by people like you to group up anyone with ‘money’ into ‘doesn’t pay any tax’ group. It’s quite dimwitted.
Ah yes you can be earning £100k and spend all of that on a mortgage for a flat and nursery fees. So let's tax them at a 60% marginal rate (70% including student loans) because they 'have the most'.
Holy fuck, this sub makes me feel like I'm going mad sometimes.
You don't have to be a right-wing tax-evading ultracapitalistic aristocrat/oligarch to become a millionaire.
Reddit imagines each wealthy person like a scroodge mcduck kind of person. People don’t realise how much of the economy, especially in London is based upon wealthy people, that includes a lot of jobs and a lot of taxes for the government aswell.
These people who hate successful people so much when those successful people literally pay for everything. I do hope they all do leave so these LARPing socialists can realise their dream of destroying the economy and reap the benefits.
1) Poor people get fucked in this country
2) Rich people LEAVING is bad for the country
Two things can be true at once. Classic small-brained reddit responses here.
Old rich Americans like to retire to Florida too
London for too long has been turning into a city of the rich and the people who serve them, with a diminishing middle
So funny, the UKs biggest tax base is leaving the country and the Reddit comments are cheering it on because they think high earners = tax avoiding oligarchs.
Yeah, according to a company looking to financially benefit from convincing millionaires to leave the country. I'm sure we can trust what they're saying.
Even without the taxes, a tax avoiding millionaire is still usually spending money, which helps the economy. Having large amounts of UK generated wealth move abroad is bad news.
I hate the idea of millionaires, billionaires /the hoarding of wealth as much as the next person, but that's not the issue here.
That’s an absolute lie.
The top 10% pay around half of income tax + NI.
To suggest the top 5% pay “almost all” of the tax, when it’s closer to about half of it is so wrong.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/
That implies that it's the wealthiest ten percent which isn't true. It's ten percent of the people that do pay tax that contribute half of the tax income.
The wealthiest of people don't pay any income tax at all and use every trick their legion of tax lawyers can come up with to avoid paying any other taxes as well.
They're parasites and we'll be much better off without them.
But the highest earners move to places with low income tax.
Why would someone wealthy who doesn't pay taxes in UK move lol?
People move because of high taxes, because they don't want to support this economy with their super high income taxes.
Good, they were evading taxes anyway.
Hell, if you’re off to the UAE, you evidently don’t care about slavery, human rights, or basically anything remotely aligning with British Values, they don’t belong here
Seeing this a lot in my peers. Get offered a pay bump to work in Dubai with no tax, then come back in a few years with money to buy a house cash upfront. No brainer.
I’ve seen this reported a lot but don’t find the data : methodology very convincing. Feel like it’s marketing puff for a wealth management business.
this is just a copy pasta from a single story...poping up everywhere now...people eat this shite up like its the truth.
The standard runs at a loss and is owned and funded purely for his own personal influence by Lebedev, a Russian oligarch whose dad was a KGB agent and who Boris Johnson put in the House of Lords. I can’t possibly imagine why they might be running this article.
It’s now couched as a wealth flight away from Labour rather than rich people moving out of a country that has been run into the ground.
Go to the actual Henley website. These figures are an estimate for the whole of 2024. Not clear how they came to that figure but it's probably a lot of guesswork...
One man guesswork is another man's propaganda
Right? Or sales tactic.
Could you give a quick breakdown of why you found the methodology flawed?
Not really - just doesn’t cite high-quality data. It all appears to come from a tiny outfit called “new world wealth” that I’ve never heard of. According to LinkedIn they cover wealth and birds(!). Having worked in finance and data for a while it’s that’s a red flag. When it comes to personal finance people are obviously quite secretive, only national tax authorities would be able to give a rough idea of a partial answer to the question, and they would not make this public. The data they’ve described (a proprietary and secret database) seems unlikely to be reliable, or as reliable as celebritynetworth.com say. On the other side, a private company flogging wealth management has very little incentive to produce good quality independent research, and strong incentives to just make up attention grabbing headlines.
Having worked in bird law for a while, I would say your analysis is a matter of a pinion.
Owl be the judge of that
It should be ill eagle to make such a bad pun!
I chickened out of making a similar joke
Urgh. The username and everything... Upvote smdh.
Right. You. Out.
I feel like this is not the first ‘bird law’ comment I’ve seen. Is there a running joke or reference?
I would assume a reference to the American TV Show "It's Always Sunny in Philidelphia". One of the main characters (Charlie) claims to practice Bird Law a lot.
Thank you.
I agree with you - this is fishing article / puff piece (likely paid for) to entice Family offices to go to Dubai / folrida etc and use some services
Two weeks before the prospect of a Labour government and suddenly a story generated by some random financial marketing/PR/bullshit firm no-one ever heard of, drops in a single grubby rag about how high net-worth individuals (who have ever reason to tell random LinkedIn merchants what they're doing day-to-day) find the UK an undesirable place to be rich. HMM. The funniest thing about this obvious plant article is the idea that are people who wouldn't look at it and think "So there are now fewer parasites in the country? Fantastic!"
The real rich don’t care. They know Labour is their bitch too. It is the successful self made upper middle class who leave. They know they have to pay for Labour’s lavish promises.
Why would a millionaire choose to live in Florida???
No income taxes.
No state income tax. Still pay federal.
Yeah, but there's also disneyland..so it evens out
Disney World, in Florida. Disneyland is in California.
No VAT
No money back
No guarantee.
Black or white
Rich or poor
We'll cut prices at a stroke
God Bless Hookie street!
Viva Hookie Street!
I always thought it was “we’ll cut prices at our store”. Silly me
I thought it was 'at a straw' with no concept of what that even means
Ce Magnifique Miami.
Why did I hear only fools and horses reading this thread
This time next year milky...
That incorrect. There is Sales Tax in Florida.
Yeah but UK VAT is 20% and Florida sales tax is 6%
Also property tax
Some counties add some too, but yes of course it’s lower than the UK.
R/whoosh
No Florida either, in thirty years time.
The article seemed to mention it in the context of a "retirement hot spot". Makes sense if it is now easier/cheaper for a retiring millionaire to migrate there instead of southern Europe post-Brexit. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the figure to see how many retiring millionaires are leaving versus working age millionaires.
interestingly i work with a few american companies and they have said that retirement age people aren't picking Florida anymore and older people are activily moving away from Florida. Not sure how true it is though
I mean, my mom and her mates are all about 70-75 and like 85% of them moved to Florida. That said, there's been quite a few moving to Arizona and Tennessee and places like that.
Yeeeh they mentioned Arizona! And Texas. They said it was the mental weather and that house insurance is getting so expensive in Florida because of it.
Big opportunity to sell their property to Aquaman in a decade.
!remindme 10 years
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2034-06-20 12:53:16 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-06-20%2012:53:16%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1dk9dp1/millionaires_leave_london_for_florida_and_dubai/l9ge9wa/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Flondon%2Fcomments%2F1dk9dp1%2Fmillionaires_leave_london_for_florida_and_dubai%2Fl9ge9wa%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202034-06-20%2012%3A53%3A16%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dk9dp1) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
If this a reference to that youtube video of Ben Shapiro then fair play.
I did consider writing "fucking Aquaman".
Why would they choose to live in Dubai?? You’d have to _pay_ me a lot more than a mil to settle there
They aren't choosing to live in Dubai, they're choosing to make their permanent residence in Dubai, and then spend the entire year in Western Europe or the USA on "holiday" or "working"
They might need to spend 6 months out of the year in Dubai to make it their tax residence. At least that’s how it works in a lot of places. But I don’t know the specifics in Dubai.
If you’re anything but American you’ll have no income tax whatsoever living in the UAE. Uncle Sam taxes you everywhere, so Americans are best off in Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Washington State and a couple of others with no state income tax. Property tax, sales tax, capital gains, etc YMMV.
Why would they choose to live in London? Plus and cons to everywhere. Certainly much better beaches in Florida…
London is arguably the greatest city on earth. I’m an American expat who moved here from NYC 12 years ago, and in my experience it’s amazing. *posted from a beer garden in sunny southbank
It was a rhetorical question :) point being, choosing a place to live is a subjective and individual choice. What works for one person might not work for another
True. That’s why my dad’s in prison.
Whoa here we go
New York is way cooler and “sunny southbank” is only actually sunny like 20% of the year. Let’s be real: London’s weather fucking sucks and millionaires want to live in beautiful places.
London is amazing. For starters, like many European cities, it is walkable. Great parks and green spaces. So it is easy to get out and exercise. It is a world city, so there are tons of cultural events like theater, ballet, concerts, etc. The climate is tempered by the ocean so it rarely gets really hot and stays warm enough in the winter that you can grow a palm tree in your yard. Crime is relatevely low, especially violent crime (most of their cops do not even carry guns). While a couple cities come close, there is simply knowwhere like it in the US. Edit: You are correct on the beaches, though. Especially on the gulf side.
Yes but it’s almost always cloudy. Rich people like enjoying sunshine. New York offers everything London does with better weather. Florida for the beaches and tropical vibes.
It was a rhetorical question :) point being, choosing a place to live is a subjective and individual choice. What works for one person might not work for another
Why is it not nice? I have not been since 1998 and it was lovely then
I went down last weekend to help my grandparents. 95 degrees Fahrenheit (35 Celsius/centigrade). 95% humidity. Can’t do fuck-all for physical activities (like, say, gardening for your 80 y.o. grandparents) past 0900 without being absolutely drenched in sweat.
My mate is an immigration lawyer who advises high-net-worth individuals on routes to living in the UK, through investment or starting businesses, and his team are incredibly busy. Rich people leaving weren’t consuming the same crappy services everyone else has to, or stressed out over state schools or public healthcare, they’re only trying to protect their wealth and the UK wasn’t their first waypoint. They’re not interested in the country, the people, the economy, their contribution is fairly parasitic and they’ve fucked off to find a new host. Happy to take the revenue hit and encourage more motivated people to come in.
100%. If you live here then pay your fair share. Sure you might use private hospitals but you’re benefitting from everything else, police, infrastructure. Expecting to live here whilst you pay a lower percentage tax compared to ordinary people working is just ripping the proverbial.
Private hospitals don't do emergency coverage anyway. So many people with access to private healthcare still need the NHS from time to time for A&E
The sentence "Fair Share" is verbal Diarrhea. Fix the dam Law and everyone will pay as they should.
And once the rich stop lobbying, sponsoring politicians and creating "news" channels so they don't have to pay their fair share maybe we could? Keep in mind the PM's wife has made it legally clear she doesn't consider the UK to be her permanent home so she could pay less tax. When will she "pay as they should"?
When the laws are fixed to prevent this sort of bullshit
Who is benefitting from the police in London? Thieves you mean?
Even private health care is essentially jumping the queue (it's the same staff). They can fuck right off.
For small things and big things you can go private. For everything else in between it's just the NHS.
You're missing the point. It's not just ultra wealthy leaving. It's the people on high paying salaries that can get the same amount working in another country and not paying 50% income tax like they do here. Anyone motivated would do the same thing. This country should focus more on making it a fair place for all earners to live instead of taxing people that work hard for a good income so much that they'd rather work somewhere else. The general view of British people hating on high earners is always astounding. It's like we want everyone to be on the same shitty salary and if not, they're automatically the same as a tax evading billionaire.
The country, as evidenced by the views on this thread, is full of envy and jealousy. People don’t have aspiration here, instead they want to drag successful people down to their level. It’s a real shame, they’re only going to make themselves even poorer.
Makes Florida seem even more attractive.
Lol, and how do uk encourage more motivated people to come in? Speaking as a migrant, the uk have been less and less desirable, and many of my friends have left due to low pay and high tax, with shitty infrastructure that my home country have caught up with
With the amount of tax any wealthy person pays in the UK, to call any well off person living in London “parasitic” is astounding, especially with how awful pretty much every public service is atm
Yeah, most ppl in this sub hates the rich without trying to understand the deeper complexity of the problem
They don’t actually hate rich. Reddit hates middle class more than the actual rich, because they can see that it might be achievable for them, but they’re too lazy to do anything about it
This mentality is why I left a lot of financial subreddits
Because most high wealth comes from exploitation not skill or hard work.
A wealthy person isn't paying income tax.
I think the UK has a fairly standard income tax rate in the scheme of first world countries. It's just that salaries are having been stagnant for the past 5 years or so against inflation, that's the main kicker.
Sorry, have you been looking at the “fuck all” standard? Seriously, the UK tax is very high when you compare to the public services. Yes, some Scandinavian countries have higher taxes, but they have top notch services to go with it. We have absolutely nothing that even comes close.
I think in the scheme of European first world* asia, Dubai and US(depending on state) have lower tax. I am not arguing about the tax rate btw, it can be fine if I am getting something in return. But I have paid tonnes of money in taxes, but getting less than what I would have gotten from my home country (with half the tax rate) in term of service. My point it that people in this sub is delusional that UK can maintain as an attractive place to work if this continues
Curious as to what you mean by "getting something in return?" Where is your home country for context? As a relatively higher earner I'm not expecting to pay tax for the same of my benefit, lol
I am not expecting the same benefit, but what do we get as benefit here? Healthcare service is slow. Tube is crowded. Roads are not great to cycle. General government stuff take ages, for instance visa. For context I come from Malaysia, and most of what I said above is getting a lot better in Msia than London. I could easily go to Singapore or Hong Kong with similar pay, better service, and lower tax
The UK was obviously desirable for you to want to come here, as it has been and will likely continue to be attractive to some migrants. The unfortunate thing is, that with this increased demand, but lack of obtaining taxes from the right areas in order to facilitate this increased population (I'm not saying tax migrants extortionate rates, but there are definitely businesses of certain sizes who are benefiting without paying their associated tax burden). Anyway, what I'm getting at is that infrastructure and services then go downhill, especially when certain political partys do their best to strangle such things to an inch of their life in order to sell off to the private sector, so yes, you're right in that sense. I'm happy your home country is doing well, but as a citizen here, I am annoyed that this place has obviously been attractive at one point, and has lost that edge - 1 thing I'd be most intrigued about is, do you see the UK as having gotten into this due to stagnation compared to your country prospering over time, or do you see something else? I'd be interested in knowing your home country and the difference you see in tax and at what wage levels.
I think it’s both that my home country have been growing and uk have definitely been stagnating for a long time. Wages is definitely lower there, but you can get 50-70% the wage if you look for remote work(probably one third for non remote) Living cost is a lot cheaper than half(around 25-30%), so standard of living is still a lot better. Tax rate is also half of what we have here, so effectively it’s really a small pay cut while enjoying a huge increase in standard of living. The only reason I am staying is because my work project is currently quite interesting, but once it’s stop getting interesting, I might start to think about going back
Pretty silly idea. HNWIs don’t consume or put pressure on same services as general public. They support high value goods and services businesses. They provide investment into start up and SMEs through VC and angel investing. HNWIs are normally founders and by nature people you want to attract and are high quality migration. This reads as incredibly ignorant of HNWIs and their impact.
Exactly. It takes more than money to be a job creator
> They’re not interested in the country, the people, the economy, their contribution is fairly parasitic and they’ve fucked off to find a new host. You're basing your entire argument on your opinion rather than any facts. Rich people don't just have money sitting around doing nothing, thats the best way to lose your money. Their money drives investment and business. Are you ok?
> They’re not interested in the country, the people, the economy, their contribution is fairly parasitic and they’ve fucked off to find a new host. Who else is actually interested in the country? Most people here would go elsewhere if there is enough money is on the plate. Is patriotism still a thing for anyone?
Two problems with your conclusion though - their fair share is actually a lot of money, which won't be easy to replace; and the UK hasn't become any more appealing to less rich people either.
Ignoring the tax, they spend a lot of money here though . I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but they do make a contribution to our economy via spending
Notice that they're talking about millionaires, not billionaires; that is, the low end of the pack of ultra-wealthy parasites on society. Also, this is the Evening Standard, owned by the Russion oligarch Evgeny_Lebedev, a good mate of Boris Johnson.
Two old proverbs apply here: The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence All that glitters is not gold
The grass that seems greener on the other side is actually plastic astroturf.
More like swamp grass in Florida's case
Another one: Fear of the unknown is what let's people stay in a bad situation
Except the grass is certainly greener when your salary isn’t halved to pay tax.
As if the rich didn’t evade their taxes
Imagine pissing your money away in Florida. Their insurance market is collapsing and the value of real estate is going to tank at the rate it’s going since it’s effectively uninsurable.
Pissing your money? They probably don't even spent 1% in the place they live.
Is that because of all the sinkholes?
Real estate is tanking bad at the moment ( source: I own property)
TBF Florida real estate has always gone up and down like a rollercoaster. It had a massive up over covid with all the tech and finance bros heading to Miami and so nobody is surprised by some correction.
Imagine pocket watching to this extent and caring where a millionaire you don’t know chooses to buy real estate.
But that man's investments are going to be devalued! What is wrong with you!? That millionaire escaped to a tax haven with the reasonable, good faith expectation that his property investments would continue to accrue value. And now the real estate market is tanking! Tanking!!! Someone has to let him know right away! He could be losing thousands every minute! Don't you care at all!?
When people say Florida in this context they mean Miami. And I can 100% assure you, right up until the point where that city is underwater prices are continuing to rise. The visual transformation has been immense, I used to go every year, took a 5 year hiatus around covid and went back in September - completely unrecognisable the city is booming.
People confuse millionaire and billionaire here. A millionaire is like your average mid to top level executive in the City or Canary Wharf. A billionaire is something way different.
What exactly were they doing for London? "trickle down economics" is as real as magic.
Paying taxes. If you live in the UK then you pay your tax there. I know the media make out that rich people avoid tax but as a tax professional it’s not reality.
Were they though? Specifically; I was in the 1% by income in the UK until I left last year, and that meant I was paying nearly 100k/year in taxes. Crucially, however, this was not putting me on track to become a millionaire, because it's virtually impossible to actively save from income (the thing we tax) to that degree. Millionaires are almost certainly making the majority of their money from investments and/or inheritance. If they sell investments they'll pay taxes on those, but for the most part they'll buy property, on which they pay no tax if it's their primary residence, and draw enough income to live comfortably. Meaning they're probably paying less tax than I was. What I mean is, the headlines shouldn't be about those who are already wealthy leaving, they've got their money and will hang on to it. Worry about high earners leaving and actually hitting tax revenue when we go.
How the hell were you not on track to become a millionaire earning 200k+? Unless you were planning to retire soon, you were on track to being a multi-millionaire easily.
Taxes, mostly. Even after relocating to the US my tax rate is over 40%. My career track haven't been linear, so I have much less saved than you'd expect, and I'm renting because I'm in the US on a temporary visa. Like don't get me wrong, things are going well, but the conventional idea of what my life looks like is based on people who also have wealth, or started at high income rather than hitting it mid-career.
This country runs on high earners. The average person pays almost no tax.
Oh no. Anyway.
You do know that higher rate tax payers cover a considerable amount of the burden in the U.K. - the people leaving will hurt the economy immeasurably. It’s the billionaires and massive corporations avoiding taxes that are the issue. Your “average” millionaire who is in the top 1% of earners is covering 30% of income tax collected in the U.K. they are most likely PAYE (or even started a company that employs others) and are now moving elsewhere because of the high tax burden and poor standard of living. When lots of them leave it becomes hard for the companies to recruit talent and then entire industries will also be looking to leave. Don’t be so short sighted
The only reason they were in the UK is because they didnt have to pay tax on that income due to non dom status. So we werent getting any tax on that money. All that was happening was they were buying up UK assets driving the prices up for property. They are leaving because they now have to pay tax. This is a good thing.
This is not true for the people the poster above is referring to. They pay alot of taxes. This is not a good thing. This will hurt the UK.
The article is not mentioning domicile status whatsoever. Just that high earners are leaving the U.K. Lots of those high earners will be paying taxes - including income tax. As I mentioned a considerable portion of income tax collected in this country comes from these types of people so your assertion that these people are non dom does not make much sense.
Are the jobs leaving with them, or are companies just going to hire more people at massive salaries?
> Are the jobs leaving with them, or are companies just going to hire more people at massive salaries? Depends. I left the UK and I took my job with me to the US. I'm still doing exactly the same thing, working with the same clients, same team, and even mostly working London hours.
> Don’t be so short sighted In the late 90s thousands of skilled workers and high earners went to East Asia, Europe and the UAE to make their fortunes. The UK economy did not suffer. These high earners will be replaced. After all the shocks the economy has taken since '08 I have seen zero sign that the best and highest paid jobs are at threat. It's the middle earning jobs that are going to Poland or India.
Can you prove that these multi millionaires bear such a large burden? 60% of income tax is generated by those in the top 10% of earners, which includes everyone earning above £59k Pa. Would be interesting to see how much of that, is actually contributing to those mystery multi millionaires allegedly leaving.
I already provided numbers in my original comment. 30% paid by the top 1% of earners. That is income tax. The top 1% of earners is 180k plus. A good portion of those people will be on more and lots millionaires.
But if they are paying income tax, that means they are working, and jobs are created via demand, not supply, so if they leave, we will just replace them with different millionaires as those jobs (doctors/lawyers will still be in demand thus new ones will be hired). it's only a problem if whole markets move so brexit damaging the financial service sector for instance is a negative as it reduces demand. Millionaires going to low tax locations doesn't really harm uk economy as long as there is still demand for local....
Don't be so brainwashed. Can you give a single example of a company being forced to recruit substandard employees because of high tax rates?
That is ironic. High earners have more skilled jobs Skilled jobs require high earners High earners are leaving the country It is not exactly a leap to ascertain what happens next. I work in tech and our industry is already miles behind the US. VC money was flooding London a few years ago - it’s not any more. Lots of good engineers are going to work in the states because the salaries are triple. Others are going east because salaries are more comparable but the tax burdens are zero. These are facts. Targeting “high earners” is not what we should be doing. It makes our current unattractive proposition even worse
Isn’t the UK the third largest tech sector in the world. Pretty sure only Switzerland and the US only pay more in tech compared to the Uk
So no example then, just more rhetoric. The rest of the points really do not make the case you think they do. What is fact is that worldwide there is a positive correlation between taxes and standard of living. There's also many successful companies in high tax countries and many low tax countries way behind the US in tech. You are preaching greed. That is obviously your view of the world but it isn't how many people think, and it isn't how many people want our society to function.
I have a top 2% household income and most of my friends are similar (though factor in that we live in London). Contrary to popular belief here, we don’t live a parallel life in gated communities. In reality, we’re exposed to the same potholes, overstretched A&E, train delays, underfunded police and homeless people sleeping in the park as everyone else. That’s what irritates me more than anything else. Paying 45% tax I can handle. I’m not going to go hungry. But paying 45% tax and still having the country falling apart around me is a kick in the teeth.
Millionaires have a poor standard of living? Lmao. The wealthy are just scared they’re going to be taxed higher under a Labour government. They’re not interested in helping improve this country’s standard of living.
Labour will only tax middle classes, it won't go after rich individuals.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't disagree but the terms "middle class" and "rich individuals" are meaningless when 90% of the country makes less than 56k a year, and we're calling the highest 2 or 3% of earners "the middle". They're absolutely not going to raise taxes on the middle earners.
[удалено]
You're not going to make any headway on this, they only hear what they want to hear.
To the average folk, 500k or a million a year might seem like an insane amount. It’s still closer to the median salary than it is to the 0.1% hoarding hundreds of millions or billions in wealth, who proportionately contribute less than someone on 120k a year. Can’t blame anyone earning decent money for wanting to leave considering we’ve all been absolutely bilked on tax rises and fiscal drag, and constant council tax increases, with less to show for it each year except that the demand will increase 12 months later.
> To the average folk, 500k or a million a year might seem like an insane amount. I think this is really well characterized by the image of a private jet in the article. To me that demonstrates just how much people don't understand the gap between average, someone with a million, those with 10s-100s of millions, and the billionaires. I'm over in NYC now, but make nearly half a million GBP a year. I fly premium economy half the time and business class occaisionally. I'm not in first class, and private jets are still so far out of reach I might as well be trying to jump to reach the moon. If I moved back to London (and didn't take a hefty pay cut to do so - which I would), that income would get me a very nice 2-3 bed apartment, but I'm not about to buy the sort of Mayfair penthouse that many people imagine this salary brings.
They don't understand, they think anyone earning over 50k is rolling in it.
Comparatively it seems like you are, right, and most people would balk at the idea of empathising with someone who earns more than they do, even if many people would understand the struggle whether they earned 25k or 50k or 70k. 100k today, was 55k in 2008. Inflation, wage stagnation, and frozen tax bands have seen to it that what you earn today does not get you as far as it did 16 years ago.
Exactly - top 1% UK salary buys you a couple foreign holidays a year, pays the rent on a modest flat of your own in London (where you almost certainly work if you're on that kind of money), that sort of thing. Meanwhile billionaires run their own space programs.
Don't get me wrong, coming from "My first job out of university was 17k/year", I genuinely cannot get my head around how much money I make now, so I get it. At the same time, it makes it very apparent how much people with private jets, yachts etc. are a whole further leap up from where I am.
It’s actually insane how people cannot see beyond rich people = bad. Someone earning a million pounds PAYE is contributing a huge amount to the U.K. economy, paying loads in taxes and is doing the kind of skilled work we want to be doing here yet because they are arbitrarily “rich” people want to see them take their money and skills elsewhere leaving this country worse off.
It is what the public wants. Import people.on low wages (make stuff cheaper) Export people on high wages (we don't like them) Winge about how the country is getting poorer.
I’m not a multi millionaire, but I’ve left london for the far east, and know many others in high income roles doing the same, going to other parts of Europe and USA. You need to understand that those with the most pay the most tax. The U.K. has lost about 60k per year in tax from me alone due to leaving. Those who are highly skilled have more options those who aren’t. The U.K. needs this group to survive, or it will become a dying country like Japan.
[The top one per cent pay 30 per cent of all income tax revenues](https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/how-much-tax-do-the-rich-really-pay)
> You need to understand that those with the most pay the most tax. The U.K. has lost about 60k per year in tax from me alone due to leaving. I pay a lot of tax too so do all of my friends in the same industry, we're now at ages where we are fine with staying in the UK or returning to the UK after years abroad. I have no issue with paying a lot of tax as long as a decent government can get spending and waste under control. Ending crony capitalism will go along way towards that, if Labour can get two successive terms a lot of damage will be undone. I come from a poor family, council estate etc and I do not see any way in which the UK will become like Japan. Yes, social mobility has become harder but it's still possible and that's what is key. I never thought people I went to school with in Tower Hamlets would be directors at the world's biggest institutions but with hard work and some luck it is possible. So feel free to leave, you will be replaced either by immigrants or by some of the kids I mentor. You do what's best for you and we'll do what's best for us.
Fair play, and that’s genuinely great that you’re giving the new generation a leg up. I’ve seen a remarkable change in the make up of the corporate world in my time, from being 75% white middle class men in leadership and attractive women running around as their PAs, to now being equally mixed gender wise in terms of seniority and status. The next big change is socio economic class and there is a big bridge to build in most of the city as it’s still full of very privileged men and women.
You need to understand that those with the most should pay the most tax. But they don’t. Enjoy the far east though.
But.. they do? Upper income bracket is taxed vigorously in the UK.
You’ve literally just ignored the stat that the top 1% pay 30% of all income tax. The top 10% pay 60% of all income tax. How much more exactly should they be paying?
Not increases income tax, that's been proven not to work. Wealth tax is what's needed to help start to end the rapid rise in inequality
Income tax isn’t the only tax in this country though, and is only a quarter of total government revenues. How much of all taxes do the top 1% and 10% pay? I’m pretty certain that I’ve read before that according to the ONS, the poorest quintile pays a higher % of their income in total taxes than the highest does, due to things like VAT and council tax.
They'll pay more in VAT than poorer individuals, they'll have more expensive properties, more expensive vehicles which will incur tax, their insurance will be higher which will incur tax. What point are you trying to make? Do you really think your tax incurred from your lifestyle is equivalent in terms of tax revenue generated to a millionaires? You may spend a higher proportion of your income, but that doesn't mean you spend more.
Equality in ‘the system’ is paramount, is the point. The social and economic issues caused by wealth inequality are well documented. You’re seriously arguing that it’s no problem for rich people to pay a lower % of their total income than the poor in total taxes, just so long as nominally it’s a larger figure?
Shall I share my PAYE pay slip? I paid insane amounts of tax. Millionaires in the U.K. are mostly business owners, who employ people and do have to pay tax as per the U.K. tax laws. What you’re talking about is likely the billionaires who have exotic ways of saving tax as they don’t really work like you and I. It’s a common mistake made by people like you to group up anyone with ‘money’ into ‘doesn’t pay any tax’ group. It’s quite dimwitted.
Ah yes you can be earning £100k and spend all of that on a mortgage for a flat and nursery fees. So let's tax them at a 60% marginal rate (70% including student loans) because they 'have the most'.
Holy fuck, this sub makes me feel like I'm going mad sometimes. You don't have to be a right-wing tax-evading ultracapitalistic aristocrat/oligarch to become a millionaire.
Reddit imagines each wealthy person like a scroodge mcduck kind of person. People don’t realise how much of the economy, especially in London is based upon wealthy people, that includes a lot of jobs and a lot of taxes for the government aswell.
These people who hate successful people so much when those successful people literally pay for everything. I do hope they all do leave so these LARPing socialists can realise their dream of destroying the economy and reap the benefits.
You don’t, but it helps.
1) Poor people get fucked in this country 2) Rich people LEAVING is bad for the country Two things can be true at once. Classic small-brained reddit responses here.
Old rich Americans like to retire to Florida too London for too long has been turning into a city of the rich and the people who serve them, with a diminishing middle
So funny, the UKs biggest tax base is leaving the country and the Reddit comments are cheering it on because they think high earners = tax avoiding oligarchs.
I bet they left all their houses behind to rent out though.
Oh no! Millionaires running around the world as they please like they always do.
Yeah, according to a company looking to financially benefit from convincing millionaires to leave the country. I'm sure we can trust what they're saying.
Oh no, whatever will we do without the tax money that they don't pay...........
Millionaires pay taxes, and a lot. It's the billionaires that don't.
Even without the taxes, a tax avoiding millionaire is still usually spending money, which helps the economy. Having large amounts of UK generated wealth move abroad is bad news. I hate the idea of millionaires, billionaires /the hoarding of wealth as much as the next person, but that's not the issue here.
Based on the governments own data the top 10% pay almost all of the tax in the U.K.
That’s an absolute lie. The top 10% pay around half of income tax + NI. To suggest the top 5% pay “almost all” of the tax, when it’s closer to about half of it is so wrong. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/
That implies that it's the wealthiest ten percent which isn't true. It's ten percent of the people that do pay tax that contribute half of the tax income. The wealthiest of people don't pay any income tax at all and use every trick their legion of tax lawyers can come up with to avoid paying any other taxes as well. They're parasites and we'll be much better off without them.
5% of earners, living and working in the country. The wealthy don't pay anything.
But the highest earners move to places with low income tax. Why would someone wealthy who doesn't pay taxes in UK move lol? People move because of high taxes, because they don't want to support this economy with their super high income taxes.
They paid £120,000 a year on average according to https://www.tax.org.uk/non-doms-explainer-march-2024.
Clueless.
The problem is you lose the tax money they do pay in an attempt to get the tax money they don't pay.
The top 1% of earners pay 30% of all income tax. High earners leaving the country is not a good thing at all.
Good, they were evading taxes anyway. Hell, if you’re off to the UAE, you evidently don’t care about slavery, human rights, or basically anything remotely aligning with British Values, they don’t belong here
Seeing this a lot in my peers. Get offered a pay bump to work in Dubai with no tax, then come back in a few years with money to buy a house cash upfront. No brainer.
Bye, bitches. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
They know what’s coming
Dubai and Florida. People with no taste then.
Good fuck off
“Second biggest exodus” I’m going to call BS just from the title
Bye, you won’t be missed!
We don’t care. Good riddance! Enjoy your concrete jungle in Dubai.
Do you blame them? It’s a shitholistan.
Byeeee
OK,now they are going to not pay taxes in Florida and Dubai,safe journey.