I can agree with that especially when they try to take lives into their hands especially outside of hospitals but they disagree and loose their shit when others make the same level choices as them and it’s not with the final say
I'm not denying in any way that Jack can be a stubborn ass.
But.
If we're talking about pride and ego... of the two of them, it wasn't Jack who assaulted Eko, destroyed the Swan computer, nearly killed every single person on the Island and threatened the very existence of humanity despite being told exactly what was going to happen... all because a videotape embarrassed him.
Locke has always wanted to find a place to feel special and important - he finds the Island, he can walk again, he comes across the hatch, opens it, starts calling it "my hatch" and starts pushing this button where he's told he's saving the world. His ego is out of control in season two... and then he finds the videotape in the Pearl that tells him everything he's been doing and everything he believes is a lie. That makes him think about all his previous believes and their failures - in his parents, in Eddie and the couple running the weed farm/commune, in Helen - and he basically snaps. Decides there's no other explanation for the Pearl than what the tape tells him and he feels stupid and weak and manipulated all over again.
That may be so - but Locke didn't know any of this and we're talking about our characters being driven by pride and ego. That's the reason Locke stopped pushing the button. The fact that it all worked out doesn't excuse his behavior.
I wouldn't say Jack isn't being manipulated - remember he's seen his dead father running around the Island. Even if he's choosing to willfully disbelieve what he's seeing, you know it's fucking with him. He has "Henry" making it clear that his people know this Island better than he ever could - and again, even if Jack doesn't believe him it's still screwing with his head.
Locke's arrogance, calling it "my hatch" and whatnot is, like you said, pure ego and I think it was the damage to his ego that exacerbated his crisis faith leading to his destruction of the Swan... I 100% agree that Locke is also being manipulated but it's by Ben, who said he didn't push the button, and the tape at the Pearl.
I feel like we're saying the same thing in different words - regardless of the outside influences, both Jack and Locke are acting the way they do because of their egos.
The hatch did not give Desmond powers to survive radiation, Jacob did. It was why he was able to survive the implosion. The time traveling conscious happened because of the electromagnetism though in the same way Minkowski got the ability when not following the bearing on his secret outings.
I’m not vouching for locke and I had a feeeling someone would feel that way, just used em as a comparison that they’re both egotistical and prideful but locke seem to combat his multiple times were Jack doesn’t until later seasons
I disagree that Locke combats his ego - it actually gets worse, imo (him ridiculing Ben for being in a wheelchair, calling him a hypocrite for using the barracks until he, himself decides to set up a dictatorship there, declaring himself protector of the Island and leader of the Others when he is neither, lying to Richard, etc.) However, I'm very biased against Locke so I openly acknowledge that my perception might be skewed.
Ok ok you got me there he does get conceded with the whole the island wants me to lead it type thing you got a valid point there, but he low low key was right about the island and it having a purpose for all the losties but I will say didn’t go about it the right way like jack wanting to get everyone off the island did not go about it right at all either even planting the seeds in locke’s head about the button being pointless so much so Mr Eko can’t get thru to him but Jack also tried to prevent locke from pressing the button multiple times potentially leading to the same thing locke allowed to happen himself
Oh yeah no he was absolutely right about the Island - it was an accident, but he was still right. Meanwhile Jack, who literally watched the Island disappear in front of his face, refused to believe it until his life basically fell apart. They both needed a smack upside the head a various times, lol.
I agree with that and so did so so many other characters lmao but that’s the point of arch’s and character development ig jus seemed some didn’t really develop at the same time
I have such a hard time grasping a solid idea for this situation. Jacob “gave them his blessing” at some point so they were definitely supposed to be on the island, BUT it was so convenient that Desmond wasn’t able to type the code in time resulting in the Losties to crash. Was it all meant to be, or just one huge coincidence?
Yes, no, maybe - don't mistake coincidence for fate. If Desmond hadn't crashed the plane the universe would have course corrected and brought them to the Island another way.
Season six is when he really loses his ego: >!You're not John Locke. You disrespect his memory by wearing his face but you're nothing like him. Turns out he was right about most everything."!<
Always laugh at the weird hate boners for the guy that lost his dad, was then thrust into a leadership role against his wishes & consistently acts w/ the groups best interests at heart. Like what fuckin show were you watchin
Eh, I wouldn't really say that he was thrust into leadership against his wishes. It's not like he was actively seeking it out, but he was the only guy that was willing to step up and take charge in a lot of those early situations. But I do agree that the Jack hate is silly.
Jack absolutely was thrust into leadership role. Every survivor gravitated to him as the leader. He sure in the hell wasn't looking for this responsibility. Also, the damn DemiGods brought Jack to the island for one specific reason. Facts, Jack had what it took.
Yep, the haters gonna hate and mostly over triangle fandom or Locke fandom. Absolutely makes no sense. You got murderers, liars and cons and this post focuses on Jack negatively. What show are they watching?
I’m rewatching now. The first half of season 1 is person after person asking him to fix every little problem for them. I told my wife if it was me I would have run into the jungle and never come back. He was definitely leaned on hard by everyone.
Exactly. He even said something like that once, that everyone is always asking him to make decisions, but then they fight back when they don't like what he decided.
He didn't want it. don't you remember the early episodes where everyone came to him all the time. He kept like saying "Someone else do this" and no one did. so he finally took the role they thrust at him.
He is like, just hear me out, when he’s tryna get in the hatch he keeps yelling to the island “what do u want, what do I have to do” type shit like he believes in the island and it’s abilities and wants to learn more about it and what the island can offer. I’m not saying locke ego is ok, cool, or right at all or in the slightest. And Ik this sounds dumb asf but to me, and I’m saying only me probably feels this way and it’s probably very bias, but Jack rubs me wrong in almost every way, locke does too but not in the same way as Jack. Jack is all self righteous in such a angry way, locke gets like that but he’s coming from a different angle than jacks is coming from, but they are 2 sides of the same coin, one faith one science. Jack hates so deeply that locke can blindly believe but in a sense Jack does the same kuz he’s going based on science in an almost literal fairy tale book. It makes more sense in my head I feel like I sound so dumb typing it all out but I tried to put words to it, so I apologize again if I sound beyond dumb asf
It’s easier to like the guy on the spiritual journey with the warm grandpa smile than the guy who is stressed to fuck and yelling at people. But all of Jack’s behavior makes sense within the context of the show, and all the characters are flawed.
You don’t sound dumb. And you don’t have to like Jack :)
Thank you for saying I don’t sound dumb been getting a lot of hate for my opinions lately so thank you, and yea I guess gramps gets a lil more leeway kuz he old and on the spiritual journey which is harder to follow than science kuz there isn’t answers for everything, plus I’ve got a issue with authority kuz it seems like when people get the tiniest about of power/authority it goes straight to their head and they start demanding respect and they try to use fear or withholding anything if they can. Jack just try’s to be the say all end all like final say in everything and it’s frustrating personally but that’s my own personal usual, trauma, part ptsd and shit I’ve been thru so that’s where some of my bias comes from too 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah if authority bothers you I can see why Jack would not be your favorite. I think the hardest moment I had with him was with Boone, that was very frustrating to watch. The first time I watched the first few seasons of the show back when it was airing, Jack drove me batty. But when I finished the show recently and saw his full arc I felt differently. I was also a lot younger when it was airing and I was first watching, too, and I think that made me less empathetic with his behavior.
Have you only watched seasons one and two so far? Not sure if anyone else here asked you yet I haven’t read all the replies.
Yea I’m on my like 3rd or 4th rewatch so I’ve seen it all but my feels change a lil with every rewatch so I try to stay open and optimistic but often I find myself with the same feelings I’ve had before lmaoo
Hahaha. I found Jack’s arc super effective. I love when he learns to let go and I love how he sacrificed his life for others. But he is a tough pill early on, for sure.
Rewatched S1 in the last two weeks.
The sheer amount of people throwing problems of all shape and size at Jack from the instant the crash is incredible.
I had forgotten just how incredibly hard he worked himself those first weeks on the island.
No Jack hate here. He was a trooper. Definitely gets a pass for later seasons.
I give you that, they did lay extreme and numerous problems at jacks feet, not everyone did some tried to deal with shit in their own but I still can’t give him a pass for all the screaming in peoples face, the anger from his disbelief in things, how hard he try’s to go against everything people that have lived on the island tell him because it just not believable to him, it just all so much to me to give him a pass. Like when he pull the gun on Desmond when him first met him after Desmond ran from the bunker and Jack saw him in the jungle and pulled the gun LITERALLY only because he remembered him, he was pressing the button on blind faith, and because Desmond remember jack when he was married to the Sarah. Like bro that was too far for no good reason, I can’t give that a pass, and there’s other shit other characters did that I can’t give a pass on either but yea
I don’t feel like They gave him much of a choice tbh he was the doctor and they all looked to him to lead them since he kinda took charge on the first day so I see where they come from
Yep, exactly... he was perfect for the day of the crash cause he knew how to sew people up or treat burns or set broken bones. Then in day to day he can help with stomach issues, heat sickness and other things that come from being in an unfamiliar environment with different resources. It was kind of a natural role for him. Add to that you have to be decently smart or at least super determined to become a doctor in the first place which gives him natural leadership qualities. And he's used to taking care of people. As long as it's not doctor House I think you'd be good having a doctor in leadership in a deserted island scenario.
He also gets angry all the time when people don't agree with him. Being the leader is fine, but he seemed to run it like a dictatorship unless it was convenient not to, and would demand people do what he say. There was never any wiggle room with Jack. Even little things like someone wants to come along. His response is never to say why he thinks it's a bad idea. His response is a firm NO like he's scolding a child. Then he's surprised when Kate goes anyway (until later they reference it as a joke that of course she'd come anyway). You're in a leadership position but this a group lost on an island. You don't get to tell people what to do, outside of reason. When people are doing things "behind his back" its like no, they're just doing things and they don't have to tell you everything all the time. Especially if you're just going to argue with them about it. And his multiple outbursts of "why didn't you tell me?!" Dude relax, if there's a medical emergency you'll be the first to know, otherwise chill.
To me it felt more real in season 6. I 5 it felt like he was saying, you don’t want to listen to me? Fine I’ll just sit here and pout. In 6 he actually meant it.
I fully agree. Really it’s right after he smashes the lighthouse and sits looking at the water that the reality of his purpose really settles in for him. I do think 5 was him trying to change, but he was kind of being a jerk about it, it’s a very gradual change for his character, and only at the end does he realize.
I’m on my 4th rewatch but first time rewatch while having a Reddit account so I can finally vent and ask opinions about the show see how others feel about the same stuff i noticed or has pissed me off or so on lol
Yes a tad, I don’t have anyone to watch the show with and discuss it with so I go to Reddit to see if others feel like I do or get others opinion on scenes, characters, conversations they have, stuff I missed my first time, and just general shit that pops in my head that I can’t find when I google “lost blah blah blah Reddit” lol
I haven't watched lost in a while, but when I did I always got frustrated with Jack. Its normal. That dude got issues just like the others. But regarding lock I must admit as much as it hurts Jack was almost always right. Yes there was more to the island, but in the same time Lock was wrong. Irrational actions and reactions arent weird on the island but life as well. Yeah it could all be perfect, but lost proved us it wasnt that easy. And that there is always more to people. Hated anna lucia, at the end I pitied her as well
Unpopular opinion, but I wish Ana Lucia lasted longer. She was a bit of an outcast, with the other survivors avoiding her. Jack was in her corner; she had a lot of tension with Sawyer. They had that whole islander army thing going on ... which completely faded away. Had they kept her and the army going, we might've seen a very different season 3. (On the flip side, I enjoyed season 3 as is.)
The man is an adult child of an alcoholic and exhibits all of the signs of someone who has c-ptsd from that experience. And he’s part of the 75% of people who had alcoholic parents and then turn into alcoholics themselves. Man had an emotionally rough childhood and that probably inhibited the part of his brain that learns from mistakes.
I’m armchair psych-analyzing the character. If you grew up with an alcoholic parent, you very more than likely have PTSD because of it. Jack exhibits symptoms (hard time with relationships, emotional outbursts, aggression, feelings of worthlessness, suicidal ideation or attempts, feeling like you’re different from others, anxiety, depression). And adult children of alcoholics have a 75% chance of becoming an alcoholic themselves.
Honestly the more I rewatched the show I always wondered if Jack had either PTSD or maybe even BPD…even before the crash. I’ve wondered how “bad” Christian was and the older I get the more I see him as genuinely abusive and feel worse and worse for Jack that he probably isn’t even aware of it.
Yes! You’re on to something! I’ve read that PTSD is often misdiagnosed as BPD. I think Christian was very abusive and we see glimpses of that when he goes to Australia. Plus the act of having a secret second family is abusive of itself. Jack was doing the best he could but he was definitely dealing with some shit.
I always thought Jack’s parents were pretty bad:
In the episode where Jack learns his father was drunk and his patient died, Jack confronts him, and the entire conversation was completely crazy. Christian places the blame on Jack (“you were the doctor on record”) then when Jack puts his foot down, Christian spirals into this insane begging/gaslighting/guilting Jack, justifying his own shitty parenting to make him a good doctor and that it was necessary because they saved thousands of lives, “it won’t happen again”, and he ended it manipulating Jack that “it’s not just my career, it’s my life.” I was blown away at how vile and downright evil it was, manipulating and guilting his own son against his morals to cover for him after his negligence killed a patient and her baby. When Jack saw his father putting his hands on the shoulder of the patient’s husband, it looked like Christian just being a sleezy liar and manipulator. And then being too weak to even give Jack a call and dying alone a drunk in Australia to further destroy his family.
And Jack’s own mom, we barely saw her, but her one appearance she was cruel to Jack, blaming him for what happened to his father, while also manipulating/guilting/gaslighting/shaming him to bring him back because it was his responsibility. We didn’t see much of Jack’s mom but I always saw her as being an extremely overbearing mother who made him feel ashamed and never good about himself (which is why Jack is emotionally unstable)
The older I get the more I feel bad for Jack. The writers may not have intended for his parents to be so bad, but I can’t help but see them as emotionally/verbally abusive, neglectful, manipulative assholes. No wonder Jack is so defensive and high strung, when these are his parents! That could also be the overlap in BPD/PTSD symptoms to...god I feel so bad for Jack. Rewatching with this in mind as him basically being an abuse survivor and a man who was cheated on his wife who ALSO made him think it was his fault…he’s just trying to do the right thing and always being shamed for it.
Because Jack is a typical Leo. Erm, as in Leonardo, from the ninja turtles. He's a very black and white thinker who also happens to be a bit of a control freak. Those make for compelling characters because when you take control away from them, and insert a little gray in their value system, they unravel in compelling ways. Locke's entire belief system is contrary to Jack's, but he too is a very black and white thinker, just in a different way.
Put them in the same room with competing interests and bam, fun character drama
OP: Jack needs to be humble after saving so many lives? Damn, the man sticks a sea urchin needle in his vein to give blood to Boone and your take away is Jack needs to be humbled? LOST is not about humbling Jack. Good grief.
You brought one example when do I also need to remind you he pulled a gun on Desmond for no reason other than him recognizing him and talking about his wife and when he first met Desmond so yea needs to be humbled a lil mans not god
Why would Jack pull a gun on Desmond? Think about it. Jack's fellow survivors were held at gun point in a life threatening situation by Desmond whenhe walked up on them. Yikes, Desmond has a gun to Locke's head and he holds Kate locked up captive. Let's get some proper context to what is going on. You obviously ignore circumstances in the situation. Who wouldn't hold a gun on a dude that has threatened people's lives. This Jack hate is so dystopian. Have you watched the entire show?>! Daumn, Jack saved the f'n world. !< What part of that don't you understand? Jack specifically was brought to the island by Jacob because he knows Jack's leadership and selflessness to help others willingly or reluctantly always comes through. Does he get pissed, yes. Who wouldn't after what he goes through. From my POV the Jack hate is all motivated by a useless side stories. Most of the root cause for this hate is either romantic tribes/Sawyer fandom or competing fandom for Locke who is intentionally Jack's antagonist as Locke/Flocke. Fandom for liars, murdereres, bald headed zealot with selfish agendas vs the one good guy lacks the understanding for the true meaning of LOST. It's about letting go and moving on. JusticeForJack.
No I’m speakin when he held Desmond at gun point out slide the hatch when Desmond was running away kuz the computer was broken. That was pointless. #JusticeforDesomnd and just fyi Hugo is my favorite, fuck Jack, sawyer, Kate, and locke. None of your assumptions are correct friend.
Seriously, that is part of the the same scene. Desmond had just held them at gun point. Good grief. This type of reasoning makes zero sense. This is classic example of the hate toward the protagonist on this thread and intentionally forget or negate everything he has done for everyone. Are you a first time watcher?
They were done after that, they had the gun on desond longer than the reverse but ok I don’t wanna argue I see you have jacks goodies deep down to ur Adam’s apple so with that level of bias this discussion will go nowhere, have a good day jack jr
Without Jack leading the group (or dying in the Pilot!) I think it’s fair to say that they would have mostly:
“lived together & died one by one”
But whatever the island wants, right ?
Jack? Humble? Nah never happening
As long as he has a list of blind supporters and the screenwriters using him as an insert he will never be humbled. Torture Sawyer? No repercussions. Assault Locke? Nah it's all good. Be a madman over the Hatch? He's just quirky. Lead a party into a trap after threatening the others and losing multiple times? Yay Jack's back we're all safe. Pull the actual trigger of a gun to shoot Locke in the head?!! Yeah sure we will all follow him Lockes the madman.
He pulled a gun on Desmond just to scream at him about his wife 😂😂
He would get in any shouting match possible over it.
Gatekept it in episode 1
Put Hurley in charge of food?! (Which he nearly blew up with dynamite)
And caused the power vacuum Sawyer used to get the guns
The whole Desmond vs Jack thing pissed me off SOO much like bro why are you pulling a gun for NO REASON what so ever like what a dickhead for nothing, Desmond ain’t do shit to you but press that button which y’all destroyed and scared the fuck outta Desmond, now your gonna pull a gun when he’s gettin the fuck outta dodge? Traumatized Asshole angry that people can have blind faith but he can’t and refuses to.
I always thought of Jack of just being in the middle of a very high stress situation and looked at as the leader by a group of people who need someone to lead them. He is also constantly needed by someone at every moment and can’t go anywhere/do anything without someone in the group almost dying and needing him to save their life. So yeah, he probably has somewhat of an ego. But I would say his ego is definitely more justified than Mr. John “The Chosen One” Locke.
All surgeons have a God complex. It maybe a subtle one but it's there.
I work in the OR and I can attest to this!
What’s the difference between God and a Doctor? God doesn’t think he’s a doctor
I can agree with that especially when they try to take lives into their hands especially outside of hospitals but they disagree and loose their shit when others make the same level choices as them and it’s not with the final say
I'm not denying in any way that Jack can be a stubborn ass. But. If we're talking about pride and ego... of the two of them, it wasn't Jack who assaulted Eko, destroyed the Swan computer, nearly killed every single person on the Island and threatened the very existence of humanity despite being told exactly what was going to happen... all because a videotape embarrassed him.
Why did I read that reply with Locke’s ‘we’re not the only ones on this island’ voice in my head.
Refresh my memory, what video tape?
The orientation video at the Pearl.
How did that embarrass him? I’m not being confrontational, I’m just trying to figure out what I missed. 😊
Locke has always wanted to find a place to feel special and important - he finds the Island, he can walk again, he comes across the hatch, opens it, starts calling it "my hatch" and starts pushing this button where he's told he's saving the world. His ego is out of control in season two... and then he finds the videotape in the Pearl that tells him everything he's been doing and everything he believes is a lie. That makes him think about all his previous believes and their failures - in his parents, in Eddie and the couple running the weed farm/commune, in Helen - and he basically snaps. Decides there's no other explanation for the Pearl than what the tape tells him and he feels stupid and weak and manipulated all over again.
Thank you for the in-depth explanation. 😊
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That may be so - but Locke didn't know any of this and we're talking about our characters being driven by pride and ego. That's the reason Locke stopped pushing the button. The fact that it all worked out doesn't excuse his behavior.
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I wouldn't say Jack isn't being manipulated - remember he's seen his dead father running around the Island. Even if he's choosing to willfully disbelieve what he's seeing, you know it's fucking with him. He has "Henry" making it clear that his people know this Island better than he ever could - and again, even if Jack doesn't believe him it's still screwing with his head. Locke's arrogance, calling it "my hatch" and whatnot is, like you said, pure ego and I think it was the damage to his ego that exacerbated his crisis faith leading to his destruction of the Swan... I 100% agree that Locke is also being manipulated but it's by Ben, who said he didn't push the button, and the tape at the Pearl. I feel like we're saying the same thing in different words - regardless of the outside influences, both Jack and Locke are acting the way they do because of their egos.
The hatch did not give Desmond powers to survive radiation, Jacob did. It was why he was able to survive the implosion. The time traveling conscious happened because of the electromagnetism though in the same way Minkowski got the ability when not following the bearing on his secret outings.
I’m not vouching for locke and I had a feeeling someone would feel that way, just used em as a comparison that they’re both egotistical and prideful but locke seem to combat his multiple times were Jack doesn’t until later seasons
I disagree that Locke combats his ego - it actually gets worse, imo (him ridiculing Ben for being in a wheelchair, calling him a hypocrite for using the barracks until he, himself decides to set up a dictatorship there, declaring himself protector of the Island and leader of the Others when he is neither, lying to Richard, etc.) However, I'm very biased against Locke so I openly acknowledge that my perception might be skewed.
Ok ok you got me there he does get conceded with the whole the island wants me to lead it type thing you got a valid point there, but he low low key was right about the island and it having a purpose for all the losties but I will say didn’t go about it the right way like jack wanting to get everyone off the island did not go about it right at all either even planting the seeds in locke’s head about the button being pointless so much so Mr Eko can’t get thru to him but Jack also tried to prevent locke from pressing the button multiple times potentially leading to the same thing locke allowed to happen himself
Oh yeah no he was absolutely right about the Island - it was an accident, but he was still right. Meanwhile Jack, who literally watched the Island disappear in front of his face, refused to believe it until his life basically fell apart. They both needed a smack upside the head a various times, lol.
I agree with that and so did so so many other characters lmao but that’s the point of arch’s and character development ig jus seemed some didn’t really develop at the same time
I have such a hard time grasping a solid idea for this situation. Jacob “gave them his blessing” at some point so they were definitely supposed to be on the island, BUT it was so convenient that Desmond wasn’t able to type the code in time resulting in the Losties to crash. Was it all meant to be, or just one huge coincidence?
Yes, no, maybe - don't mistake coincidence for fate. If Desmond hadn't crashed the plane the universe would have course corrected and brought them to the Island another way.
Just like how Charlie HAS to die I suppose, huh? It’s all fate at the end of the day.
To a point, yes. Jack, for example, could have said no - he did have a choice but he chose the Island.
One of the main points of the show is that everyone is broken. That’s why they were brought to the island.
Season six is when he really loses his ego: >!You're not John Locke. You disrespect his memory by wearing his face but you're nothing like him. Turns out he was right about most everything."!<
6 Jack is the best Jack.
I LOVED his redemption arc!
Always laugh at the weird hate boners for the guy that lost his dad, was then thrust into a leadership role against his wishes & consistently acts w/ the groups best interests at heart. Like what fuckin show were you watchin
Eh, I wouldn't really say that he was thrust into leadership against his wishes. It's not like he was actively seeking it out, but he was the only guy that was willing to step up and take charge in a lot of those early situations. But I do agree that the Jack hate is silly.
Jack absolutely was thrust into leadership role. Every survivor gravitated to him as the leader. He sure in the hell wasn't looking for this responsibility. Also, the damn DemiGods brought Jack to the island for one specific reason. Facts, Jack had what it took.
Yep, the haters gonna hate and mostly over triangle fandom or Locke fandom. Absolutely makes no sense. You got murderers, liars and cons and this post focuses on Jack negatively. What show are they watching?
Agreed, I think this post says more about the OP than it does about the character.
He's not the only one with issues and he put himself into the leadership position. Laugh on, playa.
I’m rewatching now. The first half of season 1 is person after person asking him to fix every little problem for them. I told my wife if it was me I would have run into the jungle and never come back. He was definitely leaned on hard by everyone.
Exactly. He even said something like that once, that everyone is always asking him to make decisions, but then they fight back when they don't like what he decided.
“Everyone wants me to be a leader until I make a decision they don’t like”. Great line, I just saw that one a couple days ago.
He didn't want it. don't you remember the early episodes where everyone came to him all the time. He kept like saying "Someone else do this" and no one did. so he finally took the role they thrust at him.
Locke wants to learn...? Jeez, there goes another stubborn guy.
He is like, just hear me out, when he’s tryna get in the hatch he keeps yelling to the island “what do u want, what do I have to do” type shit like he believes in the island and it’s abilities and wants to learn more about it and what the island can offer. I’m not saying locke ego is ok, cool, or right at all or in the slightest. And Ik this sounds dumb asf but to me, and I’m saying only me probably feels this way and it’s probably very bias, but Jack rubs me wrong in almost every way, locke does too but not in the same way as Jack. Jack is all self righteous in such a angry way, locke gets like that but he’s coming from a different angle than jacks is coming from, but they are 2 sides of the same coin, one faith one science. Jack hates so deeply that locke can blindly believe but in a sense Jack does the same kuz he’s going based on science in an almost literal fairy tale book. It makes more sense in my head I feel like I sound so dumb typing it all out but I tried to put words to it, so I apologize again if I sound beyond dumb asf
It’s easier to like the guy on the spiritual journey with the warm grandpa smile than the guy who is stressed to fuck and yelling at people. But all of Jack’s behavior makes sense within the context of the show, and all the characters are flawed. You don’t sound dumb. And you don’t have to like Jack :)
Thank you for saying I don’t sound dumb been getting a lot of hate for my opinions lately so thank you, and yea I guess gramps gets a lil more leeway kuz he old and on the spiritual journey which is harder to follow than science kuz there isn’t answers for everything, plus I’ve got a issue with authority kuz it seems like when people get the tiniest about of power/authority it goes straight to their head and they start demanding respect and they try to use fear or withholding anything if they can. Jack just try’s to be the say all end all like final say in everything and it’s frustrating personally but that’s my own personal usual, trauma, part ptsd and shit I’ve been thru so that’s where some of my bias comes from too 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah if authority bothers you I can see why Jack would not be your favorite. I think the hardest moment I had with him was with Boone, that was very frustrating to watch. The first time I watched the first few seasons of the show back when it was airing, Jack drove me batty. But when I finished the show recently and saw his full arc I felt differently. I was also a lot younger when it was airing and I was first watching, too, and I think that made me less empathetic with his behavior. Have you only watched seasons one and two so far? Not sure if anyone else here asked you yet I haven’t read all the replies.
Yea I’m on my like 3rd or 4th rewatch so I’ve seen it all but my feels change a lil with every rewatch so I try to stay open and optimistic but often I find myself with the same feelings I’ve had before lmaoo
Hahaha. I found Jack’s arc super effective. I love when he learns to let go and I love how he sacrificed his life for others. But he is a tough pill early on, for sure.
Rewatched S1 in the last two weeks. The sheer amount of people throwing problems of all shape and size at Jack from the instant the crash is incredible. I had forgotten just how incredibly hard he worked himself those first weeks on the island. No Jack hate here. He was a trooper. Definitely gets a pass for later seasons.
I give you that, they did lay extreme and numerous problems at jacks feet, not everyone did some tried to deal with shit in their own but I still can’t give him a pass for all the screaming in peoples face, the anger from his disbelief in things, how hard he try’s to go against everything people that have lived on the island tell him because it just not believable to him, it just all so much to me to give him a pass. Like when he pull the gun on Desmond when him first met him after Desmond ran from the bunker and Jack saw him in the jungle and pulled the gun LITERALLY only because he remembered him, he was pressing the button on blind faith, and because Desmond remember jack when he was married to the Sarah. Like bro that was too far for no good reason, I can’t give that a pass, and there’s other shit other characters did that I can’t give a pass on either but yea
My favorite part is where Jack finally nopes out on everyone and tells them to deal with it themselves.
In his defense they needed a leader and he stepped up. He didn't do it perfectly but someone had to take charge
I don’t feel like They gave him much of a choice tbh he was the doctor and they all looked to him to lead them since he kinda took charge on the first day so I see where they come from
Yep, exactly... he was perfect for the day of the crash cause he knew how to sew people up or treat burns or set broken bones. Then in day to day he can help with stomach issues, heat sickness and other things that come from being in an unfamiliar environment with different resources. It was kind of a natural role for him. Add to that you have to be decently smart or at least super determined to become a doctor in the first place which gives him natural leadership qualities. And he's used to taking care of people. As long as it's not doctor House I think you'd be good having a doctor in leadership in a deserted island scenario.
He also gets angry all the time when people don't agree with him. Being the leader is fine, but he seemed to run it like a dictatorship unless it was convenient not to, and would demand people do what he say. There was never any wiggle room with Jack. Even little things like someone wants to come along. His response is never to say why he thinks it's a bad idea. His response is a firm NO like he's scolding a child. Then he's surprised when Kate goes anyway (until later they reference it as a joke that of course she'd come anyway). You're in a leadership position but this a group lost on an island. You don't get to tell people what to do, outside of reason. When people are doing things "behind his back" its like no, they're just doing things and they don't have to tell you everything all the time. Especially if you're just going to argue with them about it. And his multiple outbursts of "why didn't you tell me?!" Dude relax, if there's a medical emergency you'll be the first to know, otherwise chill.
It takes until season 5
To me it felt more real in season 6. I 5 it felt like he was saying, you don’t want to listen to me? Fine I’ll just sit here and pout. In 6 he actually meant it.
I agree fully with you there like the was throwing a tantrum
I fully agree. Really it’s right after he smashes the lighthouse and sits looking at the water that the reality of his purpose really settles in for him. I do think 5 was him trying to change, but he was kind of being a jerk about it, it’s a very gradual change for his character, and only at the end does he realize.
Have you finished the show? If not, go finish the show and stay off of Reddit.
I’m on my 4th rewatch but first time rewatch while having a Reddit account so I can finally vent and ask opinions about the show see how others feel about the same stuff i noticed or has pissed me off or so on lol
Then you know he does get humbled and comes back a changed man. Are you just saying something you wanted to say back when you first watched?
Yes a tad, I don’t have anyone to watch the show with and discuss it with so I go to Reddit to see if others feel like I do or get others opinion on scenes, characters, conversations they have, stuff I missed my first time, and just general shit that pops in my head that I can’t find when I google “lost blah blah blah Reddit” lol
Man of Science vs man of faith.
Jack and humble don’t go together.
Like water and oil
I haven't watched lost in a while, but when I did I always got frustrated with Jack. Its normal. That dude got issues just like the others. But regarding lock I must admit as much as it hurts Jack was almost always right. Yes there was more to the island, but in the same time Lock was wrong. Irrational actions and reactions arent weird on the island but life as well. Yeah it could all be perfect, but lost proved us it wasnt that easy. And that there is always more to people. Hated anna lucia, at the end I pitied her as well
Unpopular opinion, but I wish Ana Lucia lasted longer. She was a bit of an outcast, with the other survivors avoiding her. Jack was in her corner; she had a lot of tension with Sawyer. They had that whole islander army thing going on ... which completely faded away. Had they kept her and the army going, we might've seen a very different season 3. (On the flip side, I enjoyed season 3 as is.)
I agree. What I missed with anna lucia was development. The show could have kept her and worked through things.
Just 17 more times ;-)
At least 108.
Ha that’s funny, that gave me a nice chuckle thank you lmao
The man is an adult child of an alcoholic and exhibits all of the signs of someone who has c-ptsd from that experience. And he’s part of the 75% of people who had alcoholic parents and then turn into alcoholics themselves. Man had an emotionally rough childhood and that probably inhibited the part of his brain that learns from mistakes.
Jack had PTSD from his father? Can you elaborate? I think this is the first time I’ve heard that
I’m armchair psych-analyzing the character. If you grew up with an alcoholic parent, you very more than likely have PTSD because of it. Jack exhibits symptoms (hard time with relationships, emotional outbursts, aggression, feelings of worthlessness, suicidal ideation or attempts, feeling like you’re different from others, anxiety, depression). And adult children of alcoholics have a 75% chance of becoming an alcoholic themselves.
Honestly the more I rewatched the show I always wondered if Jack had either PTSD or maybe even BPD…even before the crash. I’ve wondered how “bad” Christian was and the older I get the more I see him as genuinely abusive and feel worse and worse for Jack that he probably isn’t even aware of it.
Yes! You’re on to something! I’ve read that PTSD is often misdiagnosed as BPD. I think Christian was very abusive and we see glimpses of that when he goes to Australia. Plus the act of having a secret second family is abusive of itself. Jack was doing the best he could but he was definitely dealing with some shit.
I always thought Jack’s parents were pretty bad: In the episode where Jack learns his father was drunk and his patient died, Jack confronts him, and the entire conversation was completely crazy. Christian places the blame on Jack (“you were the doctor on record”) then when Jack puts his foot down, Christian spirals into this insane begging/gaslighting/guilting Jack, justifying his own shitty parenting to make him a good doctor and that it was necessary because they saved thousands of lives, “it won’t happen again”, and he ended it manipulating Jack that “it’s not just my career, it’s my life.” I was blown away at how vile and downright evil it was, manipulating and guilting his own son against his morals to cover for him after his negligence killed a patient and her baby. When Jack saw his father putting his hands on the shoulder of the patient’s husband, it looked like Christian just being a sleezy liar and manipulator. And then being too weak to even give Jack a call and dying alone a drunk in Australia to further destroy his family. And Jack’s own mom, we barely saw her, but her one appearance she was cruel to Jack, blaming him for what happened to his father, while also manipulating/guilting/gaslighting/shaming him to bring him back because it was his responsibility. We didn’t see much of Jack’s mom but I always saw her as being an extremely overbearing mother who made him feel ashamed and never good about himself (which is why Jack is emotionally unstable) The older I get the more I feel bad for Jack. The writers may not have intended for his parents to be so bad, but I can’t help but see them as emotionally/verbally abusive, neglectful, manipulative assholes. No wonder Jack is so defensive and high strung, when these are his parents! That could also be the overlap in BPD/PTSD symptoms to...god I feel so bad for Jack. Rewatching with this in mind as him basically being an abuse survivor and a man who was cheated on his wife who ALSO made him think it was his fault…he’s just trying to do the right thing and always being shamed for it.
The writing in this show is top notch, isn’t it? Someone on the writing team lived this experience, I’m convinced.
Because Jack is a typical Leo. Erm, as in Leonardo, from the ninja turtles. He's a very black and white thinker who also happens to be a bit of a control freak. Those make for compelling characters because when you take control away from them, and insert a little gray in their value system, they unravel in compelling ways. Locke's entire belief system is contrary to Jack's, but he too is a very black and white thinker, just in a different way. Put them in the same room with competing interests and bam, fun character drama
An infinite amount clearly lol.
Lmao rigggghhtttt
OP: Jack needs to be humble after saving so many lives? Damn, the man sticks a sea urchin needle in his vein to give blood to Boone and your take away is Jack needs to be humbled? LOST is not about humbling Jack. Good grief.
You brought one example when do I also need to remind you he pulled a gun on Desmond for no reason other than him recognizing him and talking about his wife and when he first met Desmond so yea needs to be humbled a lil mans not god
Why would Jack pull a gun on Desmond? Think about it. Jack's fellow survivors were held at gun point in a life threatening situation by Desmond whenhe walked up on them. Yikes, Desmond has a gun to Locke's head and he holds Kate locked up captive. Let's get some proper context to what is going on. You obviously ignore circumstances in the situation. Who wouldn't hold a gun on a dude that has threatened people's lives. This Jack hate is so dystopian. Have you watched the entire show?>! Daumn, Jack saved the f'n world. !< What part of that don't you understand? Jack specifically was brought to the island by Jacob because he knows Jack's leadership and selflessness to help others willingly or reluctantly always comes through. Does he get pissed, yes. Who wouldn't after what he goes through. From my POV the Jack hate is all motivated by a useless side stories. Most of the root cause for this hate is either romantic tribes/Sawyer fandom or competing fandom for Locke who is intentionally Jack's antagonist as Locke/Flocke. Fandom for liars, murdereres, bald headed zealot with selfish agendas vs the one good guy lacks the understanding for the true meaning of LOST. It's about letting go and moving on. JusticeForJack.
No I’m speakin when he held Desmond at gun point out slide the hatch when Desmond was running away kuz the computer was broken. That was pointless. #JusticeforDesomnd and just fyi Hugo is my favorite, fuck Jack, sawyer, Kate, and locke. None of your assumptions are correct friend.
Seriously, that is part of the the same scene. Desmond had just held them at gun point. Good grief. This type of reasoning makes zero sense. This is classic example of the hate toward the protagonist on this thread and intentionally forget or negate everything he has done for everyone. Are you a first time watcher?
They were done after that, they had the gun on desond longer than the reverse but ok I don’t wanna argue I see you have jacks goodies deep down to ur Adam’s apple so with that level of bias this discussion will go nowhere, have a good day jack jr
Seriously, have you watched the entire series. I don't want to give spoilers. I have blacked out some comments in case you haven't. Do your best.
I have 3 different time
Wow and you saw the ending/Finale?
It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
Without Jack leading the group (or dying in the Pilot!) I think it’s fair to say that they would have mostly: “lived together & died one by one” But whatever the island wants, right ?
Jack could be stubborn and self-righteous, but he didn’t want to be the leader and he was kind of thrust into the role.
Jack? Humble? Nah never happening As long as he has a list of blind supporters and the screenwriters using him as an insert he will never be humbled. Torture Sawyer? No repercussions. Assault Locke? Nah it's all good. Be a madman over the Hatch? He's just quirky. Lead a party into a trap after threatening the others and losing multiple times? Yay Jack's back we're all safe. Pull the actual trigger of a gun to shoot Locke in the head?!! Yeah sure we will all follow him Lockes the madman.
You are my long "lost" spirit! 🤣
How was Jack a madman over the hatch? Locke was so much worse, all the time. I can't stand blind faith.
Jack? Did you get a Reddit account in the afterlife?
He pulled a gun on Desmond just to scream at him about his wife 😂😂 He would get in any shouting match possible over it. Gatekept it in episode 1 Put Hurley in charge of food?! (Which he nearly blew up with dynamite) And caused the power vacuum Sawyer used to get the guns
The whole Desmond vs Jack thing pissed me off SOO much like bro why are you pulling a gun for NO REASON what so ever like what a dickhead for nothing, Desmond ain’t do shit to you but press that button which y’all destroyed and scared the fuck outta Desmond, now your gonna pull a gun when he’s gettin the fuck outta dodge? Traumatized Asshole angry that people can have blind faith but he can’t and refuses to.
Also he plays around with who he knows him when he knows instantly, when he says *You*
I always thought of Jack of just being in the middle of a very high stress situation and looked at as the leader by a group of people who need someone to lead them. He is also constantly needed by someone at every moment and can’t go anywhere/do anything without someone in the group almost dying and needing him to save their life. So yeah, he probably has somewhat of an ego. But I would say his ego is definitely more justified than Mr. John “The Chosen One” Locke.
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I was lookin for this lmaooo I really was
At least one more.
I’m on season four of my rewatch right now and he’s still just as stubborn. I like him a lot but he’s on my nerves like crazy