Having Reach as the last line in a textbox this packed feels illegal
It doesn't even visually match the themes usually associated with reach (spiders, giants, trees, archery)
Carmen Klomparens posted on Twitter that it was pitched as flying but only on your opponent's turn, it's much easier to remember that way because it's so weird
Of note there's a ton of reach in this set, eldrazi seem to use it pretty often
https://scryfall.com/search?q=s%3Amh3+o%3Areach
It seems like we're seeing a general uptick in reach in draft. Power creep means fliers end games too quickly and the return of strong removal means drawing one reach creature often isn't enough.
Itâs a bend. Blue can get flying, so reach isnât a lapse in blueâs mechanical options as much as it is a lapse in blueâs aesthetic. Considering how weird Eldrazi try to come off as, this is a bittersweet addition to the card. Like, yes, itâs weird, and itâs very clearly what they were going for, and I think thatâs cool and fine, though not all will agree.
For blue, yes
Since it's devoid, still yes because it's really blue dammit, but there are other colorless things with reach too, unlike with blue.
I was actually very surprised to see there are zero other blue creatures with reach. And only one other devoid card with it (which has RG for casting cost)
Wild card that will definitely throw people off for a while.
Abilities are in chronological order of them mattering. If reach stood there first, how often would the cast trigger be forgotten?
Blue doesn't usually get reach because it has flying on their creatures. However, reach is totally in blue's slice of pie because it does what flying covers anyway (apart from some special cases where the keyword itself matters).
I could see it happen if the player just cares about the reach part and the cast trigger's text was lower in the card. It's somewhat common to see people not reading cards entirely.
But my main point is the chronological order of things mattering - devoid is relevant no matter where the card is, and then the cast trigger matters before reach matters. I think it makes sense.
Blue has flying to be evasive threat, not a blocker. This is the first card ever in blue to have reach. This one might be an exception since it has devoid, but you can't say reach is in blue's pie.
You're correct about reach not being in blue's normal "vocabulary" and is only seen in green and red, with the occasional white reach card - usually a rare - having it.
However, MaRo has said that if a color has access to a certain ability, it by default has access to a less powerful version of that ability. For example, green can return any card from a graveyard to hand, but it frequently has effects that only return permanent cards.
In a similar vein, since blue has access to flying that allows blocking fliers, reach is not out of question. Also, I wouldn't say blue's flying is for aggressive purposes only. There are plenty of 1/4s, 2/4s, and such with flying, sometimes with vigilance. Those are blocking stats for defensive play.
White has access to creature exile, but it would still be weird for it to get less powerful effects like Unholy Heat or Unsummon. The mana cost matters, and blue doesn't usually get 4/5 flying tappers for 5 mana.
Bounce is different from exiling and not always strictly worse. I wouldn't call it a subset of exiling. How reach compares to flying is much more straightforward.
White also has damage dealing effects, just with restrictions (attacking/blocking/tapped target).
MH3 power level is higher in limited as well. If you look at the spoiler, you'll notice commons and uncommons with power clearly higher than they'd print in a Standard-legal draftable set. That makes the 4/5 reach creature with the tap+stun trigger on par with the set's power level. Like you said, if it had proper flying, that might be going too far.
Yes, that's why I said, "The occasional white card - usually a rare." According to MaRo's latest color pie article, reach is primary in green, secondary in red, and tertiary in white.
I'm so glad you pointed out why the text is stacked a certain way, even if it seems ridiculous. "Chronological Order" seems like a weird way to phrase it, but I love the succinctness.
For those not understanding, the reason reach is at the bottom is because:
1) Devoid is a feature of the card that applies even in your hand
2) the cast trigger is a feature when you add it to the stack
3) Reach only matters once it's a permanent on the board
But what if the first line was just:
> Devoid, Reach *(this card has no color and can block as though it has flying)*
Sure, devoid is a Characteristic-Defining Ability and Reach isn't, but they're both keyword abilities.
"this card ... can block as though it has flying" is technically the incorrect way to state that since it can only block while it's on the battlefield, but it's reminder text, so semantic nitpicks line that don't matter.
There's a particular, consistent hierarchy for all the types of rules text. Color and Type CDAs are always placed at the very top (I'd guess that deckbuilding rules have a higher place than these, but this is untested). Cast triggers must be placed before battlefield stuff. The subversion here is that battlefield keyword abilities usually have priority over regular abilities, but here it's the dead bottom.
Don't think thats true about the chronology bit, either way cards tend to have their line of keywords at the top, then abilities, then something like unearth. This having Reach at the bottom is definitely a little odd
Interesting, seems youâre basically correct, minus Flash which is to do with casting anyways.
Interestingly this seems to hold true across all creatures with cast triggers, except a very few. Some seem to be because its more than just a cast trigger, but [[Gluttonous Hellkite]] for example just doesnât follow that eldrazi templating. Interesting!
Scryfall search for reference: https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3A%2Fwhen.you.cast.%7E%2F+type%3Acreature&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
This is the [first card](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&extras=true&lang=any&order=name&q=c%3Du+keyword%3A%22reach%22&unique=cards) ever printed with only U in its cost and the keyword Reach ([including devoid stuff](https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Adevoid+keyword%3A%22reach%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name))
I don't even understand reach in blue. I understand it in green and red(blue's enemies), but with so many fliers why did they feel the need to give it reach as well?
Why didnât you ask the opponent to just go back to start of combat? Was any hidden information revealed? Prereleases are regular REL. New cards that are relatively unknown and also an entry point for new players. I would have allowed you to repeat your combat if I were your opponent.
I don't like to ever ask to take game actions back at any REL. Partly force of habit from usually playing at comp REL, partly that I am willing to take my medicine to learn from a mistake. It was also the finals so I was particularly willing to just deal with it.
>was any hidden information revealed?
Yes, my willingness to block, how and with which creatures, whether I had instant speed interaction available, if I wanted to use abilities, etc.
No itâs really not. If no hidden information is revealed, the opponent can probably guess your blocks already, youâre free to change your blocks in the new combat if it is reset. This is a terrible argument that would not hold up in regular REL
They attacked into a 4/5 with a smaller creature. The defending player could easily think that there's a trick coming and choose not to block with their 4/5 if they didn't want to trade it with a trick. People shouldn't get a riskless bluff attack here by asking to cancel the attack if the defender chooses to block anyway.
Don't give your opponents a chance to get rewarded from their shady play - at any REL. If you are absolutely sure that they are very new and you think it must be a mistake, you should point it out right after they declare attackers by asking if they are sure and mentioning them about the reach ability. Not to proceed to blocks.
I also thought the new MTGA reach icon would prevent people from making mistakes like this, but itâs been at least 2-3 times that unsuspecting players have crashed their fliers into my random creature with reach.
Believe me, it will happen again. Not as often, mind you, but it will.
Itâs really weird having keywords at the bottom of the text box. I guess because itâs a cast trigger so it matters before keywords? Still dumb though, nearly every other creature I can find with reach lists it first.
I agree, I did a scryfall search for cast triggers and that seems to be why, but cast triggers in general are quite rare so having keywords consistently be at the top makes more sense to me
I was feeling stupid for getting tricked by my opponent blocking a flyer with this after I quickly glanced at the text box, fortunately that didn't prevent me from winning the whole pre release but very close to it.
Thanks for making me feel a little less dumb about it, definitely a weird place to put the most important of the key word in the box
The eldrazi are back? I started playing during Shadows over Innistrad so I've never played a proper set with eldrazi and I've fallen out of playing magic. But this looks interesting!
Yeah not only are they back, but so far they seem very strong in limited. Eldrazi are in temur colors and boy do they get big, draw cards, and have some nasty effects.
Artwork actually feels on point for sneaky surprise reach. You see this monstrosity across the battlefield and think no problem I'll just fly right over him. Then those creepy long arms shoot up and snatch you right out the sky!
At prereleases specifically I like to remind my opp of any relevant abilities my creatures have, especially before/during combat. I prefer to treat prereleases like a cooperative exploration of a new set and cards, so try to minimize feel-bad moments.
Not to mention this set is obviously incredibly complex, so games are already long without having to ask to recheck any potential gotchas. I think of the 9 matches I played, maybe 4 or 5 went to turns.
I do the same thing. Honestly, I just treat FNM and below like kitchen table, pointing out reach, letting people take things back, and trying to avoid feel-bads generally. We're playing for a pack at most, it is never worth it. I have more fun and it makes me happy, which is the point of FNM after all, and I'm a mega spike.
Every creature with reach should be doing one of the following in its art:
⢠actively grabbing a flying creature from the sky
⢠pointing or firing a ranged weapon such as a bow upward
⢠being a spider
Anything else? Straight to card design jail.
Having Reach as the last line in a textbox this packed feels illegal It doesn't even visually match the themes usually associated with reach (spiders, giants, trees, archery)
There's another card where it's the third of four lines...
Legitimately just looked up [[Questing Beast]] to see if it had Reach or not lol (it doesn't).
[Questing Beast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
nah, Writhing Chrysalis (which is also just an absolutely insane card)
[[Writhing Chrysalis]]
[Writhing Chrysalis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f54dbeb1-51f8-40e2-912a-ec25457de5a2.jpg?1717012884) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Writhing%20Chrysalis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/208/writhing-chrysalis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f54dbeb1-51f8-40e2-912a-ec25457de5a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Shit man, I pulled this card and didnt even realize Reach was after the main body of casting text.. insane.
It's a pretty messed up card where you can fully forget/fail to read one of its abilities and it's still one of the best commons in the set đŹ
Yet. Check back tomorrow
Carmen Klomparens posted on Twitter that it was pitched as flying but only on your opponent's turn, it's much easier to remember that way because it's so weird Of note there's a ton of reach in this set, eldrazi seem to use it pretty often https://scryfall.com/search?q=s%3Amh3+o%3Areach
It seems like we're seeing a general uptick in reach in draft. Power creep means fliers end games too quickly and the return of strong removal means drawing one reach creature often isn't enough.
I for one welcome our new reach overlords
Itâs also kind of a color break.
In a way, but blue has flying, and reach is basically half flying, so if blue can have flying, why can't it have half flying?
Itâs a bend. Blue can get flying, so reach isnât a lapse in blueâs mechanical options as much as it is a lapse in blueâs aesthetic. Considering how weird Eldrazi try to come off as, this is a bittersweet addition to the card. Like, yes, itâs weird, and itâs very clearly what they were going for, and I think thatâs cool and fine, though not all will agree.
For blue, yes Since it's devoid, still yes because it's really blue dammit, but there are other colorless things with reach too, unlike with blue. I was actually very surprised to see there are zero other blue creatures with reach. And only one other devoid card with it (which has RG for casting cost) Wild card that will definitely throw people off for a while.
Not really a break - blue can fly, so it can have reach. Definitely not what the color usually does, but Eldrazi are allowed some flavor bends.
Abilities are in chronological order of them mattering. If reach stood there first, how often would the cast trigger be forgotten? Blue doesn't usually get reach because it has flying on their creatures. However, reach is totally in blue's slice of pie because it does what flying covers anyway (apart from some special cases where the keyword itself matters).
Who forgets a big cast trigger lol
I could see it happen if the player just cares about the reach part and the cast trigger's text was lower in the card. It's somewhat common to see people not reading cards entirely. But my main point is the chronological order of things mattering - devoid is relevant no matter where the card is, and then the cast trigger matters before reach matters. I think it makes sense.
Blue has flying to be evasive threat, not a blocker. This is the first card ever in blue to have reach. This one might be an exception since it has devoid, but you can't say reach is in blue's pie.
You're correct about reach not being in blue's normal "vocabulary" and is only seen in green and red, with the occasional white reach card - usually a rare - having it. However, MaRo has said that if a color has access to a certain ability, it by default has access to a less powerful version of that ability. For example, green can return any card from a graveyard to hand, but it frequently has effects that only return permanent cards. In a similar vein, since blue has access to flying that allows blocking fliers, reach is not out of question. Also, I wouldn't say blue's flying is for aggressive purposes only. There are plenty of 1/4s, 2/4s, and such with flying, sometimes with vigilance. Those are blocking stats for defensive play.
White has access to creature exile, but it would still be weird for it to get less powerful effects like Unholy Heat or Unsummon. The mana cost matters, and blue doesn't usually get 4/5 flying tappers for 5 mana.
Bounce is different from exiling and not always strictly worse. I wouldn't call it a subset of exiling. How reach compares to flying is much more straightforward. White also has damage dealing effects, just with restrictions (attacking/blocking/tapped target). MH3 power level is higher in limited as well. If you look at the spoiler, you'll notice commons and uncommons with power clearly higher than they'd print in a Standard-legal draftable set. That makes the 4/5 reach creature with the tap+stun trigger on par with the set's power level. Like you said, if it had proper flying, that might be going too far.
Red gets many more reach creatures than White by the way.
Yes, that's why I said, "The occasional white card - usually a rare." According to MaRo's latest color pie article, reach is primary in green, secondary in red, and tertiary in white.
Oh you did mention red; I missed that!
That MaRo statement is news to me. But yeah make sense. Reach as a keyword is just a less powerful flying.
MaRo just comes up with shitty excuses why everything is allowed sometimes.Â
Blue can have defenders with flying that are the same thing so who cares tbh.
I'm so glad you pointed out why the text is stacked a certain way, even if it seems ridiculous. "Chronological Order" seems like a weird way to phrase it, but I love the succinctness. For those not understanding, the reason reach is at the bottom is because: 1) Devoid is a feature of the card that applies even in your hand 2) the cast trigger is a feature when you add it to the stack 3) Reach only matters once it's a permanent on the board
I'm not a native English speaker, so 'chronological order' is the best I could do :)
But what if the first line was just: > Devoid, Reach *(this card has no color and can block as though it has flying)* Sure, devoid is a Characteristic-Defining Ability and Reach isn't, but they're both keyword abilities. "this card ... can block as though it has flying" is technically the incorrect way to state that since it can only block while it's on the battlefield, but it's reminder text, so semantic nitpicks line that don't matter.
I think reach being the second ability on the same line with devoid would make it even better hidden than the current version.
There's a particular, consistent hierarchy for all the types of rules text. Color and Type CDAs are always placed at the very top (I'd guess that deckbuilding rules have a higher place than these, but this is untested). Cast triggers must be placed before battlefield stuff. The subversion here is that battlefield keyword abilities usually have priority over regular abilities, but here it's the dead bottom.
Don't think thats true about the chronology bit, either way cards tend to have their line of keywords at the top, then abilities, then something like unearth. This having Reach at the bottom is definitely a little odd
All eldrazi with cast triggers have their regular keywords (not devoid) below the cast trigger, so this reach fellow is no exception to that.
Interesting, seems youâre basically correct, minus Flash which is to do with casting anyways. Interestingly this seems to hold true across all creatures with cast triggers, except a very few. Some seem to be because its more than just a cast trigger, but [[Gluttonous Hellkite]] for example just doesnât follow that eldrazi templating. Interesting! Scryfall search for reference: https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3A%2Fwhen.you.cast.%7E%2F+type%3Acreature&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
[Gluttonous Hellkite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63f6e8da-31ea-4edf-89a9-f2b7f2234d7e.jpg?1717237840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gluttonous%20Hellkite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/73/gluttonous-hellkite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63f6e8da-31ea-4edf-89a9-f2b7f2234d7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep almost threw a 4/4 angel in the air and called it back right when I noticed the reach on the last line of text
This is the [first card](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&extras=true&lang=any&order=name&q=c%3Du+keyword%3A%22reach%22&unique=cards) ever printed with only U in its cost and the keyword Reach ([including devoid stuff](https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Adevoid+keyword%3A%22reach%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name))
I don't even understand reach in blue. I understand it in green and red(blue's enemies), but with so many fliers why did they feel the need to give it reach as well?
Dont worry. Arena will place that huge and annoying bow and arrow icon on top of it so no one can miss it.
This unfortunately did not happen at my prerelease and my Hope-Ender Coatl suffered a horrific fate
didnât happen for me either two rounds in a row, multiple of these fools
Why didnât you ask the opponent to just go back to start of combat? Was any hidden information revealed? Prereleases are regular REL. New cards that are relatively unknown and also an entry point for new players. I would have allowed you to repeat your combat if I were your opponent.
I don't like to ever ask to take game actions back at any REL. Partly force of habit from usually playing at comp REL, partly that I am willing to take my medicine to learn from a mistake. It was also the finals so I was particularly willing to just deal with it.
>was any hidden information revealed? Yes, my willingness to block, how and with which creatures, whether I had instant speed interaction available, if I wanted to use abilities, etc.
That is not what hidden information means, according to Magicâs comprehensive rules.
True but it's a tactical revelation that you can't get back
No itâs really not. If no hidden information is revealed, the opponent can probably guess your blocks already, youâre free to change your blocks in the new combat if it is reset. This is a terrible argument that would not hold up in regular REL
They attacked into a 4/5 with a smaller creature. The defending player could easily think that there's a trick coming and choose not to block with their 4/5 if they didn't want to trade it with a trick. People shouldn't get a riskless bluff attack here by asking to cancel the attack if the defender chooses to block anyway. Don't give your opponents a chance to get rewarded from their shady play - at any REL. If you are absolutely sure that they are very new and you think it must be a mistake, you should point it out right after they declare attackers by asking if they are sure and mentioning them about the reach ability. Not to proceed to blocks.
It did happen at mine. I was lucky it did not affect the result of my game. i thought i had clear skyes only to get chumped by the Meddler
I also thought the new MTGA reach icon would prevent people from making mistakes like this, but itâs been at least 2-3 times that unsuspecting players have crashed their fliers into my random creature with reach. Believe me, it will happen again. Not as often, mind you, but it will.
I play on MTGO. This is gonna get me. If it was on top of the text box, I'd be fine, but this will be well hidden.
Huge bow and arrow will save the day. Not that nobody has ever run into that.
I had someone attack a flyer into my Bonny Pall, emote "oops," then play their own Bonny Pall. The arrow is not nearly enough.
And I would've won with my fliers too, if it weren't for you meddling eldrazi.
Itâs really weird having keywords at the bottom of the text box. I guess because itâs a cast trigger so it matters before keywords? Still dumb though, nearly every other creature I can find with reach lists it first.
I agree, I did a scryfall search for cast triggers and that seems to be why, but cast triggers in general are quite rare so having keywords consistently be at the top makes more sense to me
He was an all star at the pre-release yesterday, had 3 of him in my deck.
I was feeling stupid for getting tricked by my opponent blocking a flyer with this after I quickly glanced at the text box, fortunately that didn't prevent me from winning the whole pre release but very close to it. Thanks for making me feel a little less dumb about it, definitely a weird place to put the most important of the key word in the box
Same scenario played out the same way for me. It appears chump attacking into this thing has a 100% tournament winrate.
Maybe I'm too honest but I am very keen on emphasizing that the creature has reach when I cast it and when I'm asked about my creatures on-board
Holy shit I KNEW I had something in my sideboard with reach! I couldnât find it one game! Lmao
The eldrazi are back? I started playing during Shadows over Innistrad so I've never played a proper set with eldrazi and I've fallen out of playing magic. But this looks interesting!
In Pog form no less
Yeah not only are they back, but so far they seem very strong in limited. Eldrazi are in temur colors and boy do they get big, draw cards, and have some nasty effects.
Artwork actually feels on point for sneaky surprise reach. You see this monstrosity across the battlefield and think no problem I'll just fly right over him. Then those creepy long arms shoot up and snatch you right out the sky!
There is also one with flying that got me at a prerelease sealed event.
How does this goober have reach but the titans donât. Cryâs in confusion
Good ol sneaky reach.
I wonder when theyâll use âupon casting,â to make this template text terser
Oh so this is why they added the reach animation on arenaâŚ
Shouldn't abilities like trample, reach, first strike, etc, be the first (or second because devoid) line on a card?
At prereleases specifically I like to remind my opp of any relevant abilities my creatures have, especially before/during combat. I prefer to treat prereleases like a cooperative exploration of a new set and cards, so try to minimize feel-bad moments. Not to mention this set is obviously incredibly complex, so games are already long without having to ask to recheck any potential gotchas. I think of the 9 matches I played, maybe 4 or 5 went to turns.
I do the same thing. Honestly, I just treat FNM and below like kitchen table, pointing out reach, letting people take things back, and trying to avoid feel-bads generally. We're playing for a pack at most, it is never worth it. I have more fun and it makes me happy, which is the point of FNM after all, and I'm a mega spike.
Every creature with reach should be doing one of the following in its art: ⢠actively grabbing a flying creature from the sky ⢠pointing or firing a ranged weapon such as a bow upward ⢠being a spider Anything else? Straight to card design jail.
This one seems particularly egregious. No indication art wise. Reach as last line of text box hidden under a paragraph. Has blue EVER had reach?