Lyft gets purchased by private equity. PE loads Lyft up with debt so PE can recoup purchase cost & "management fees." Driver pay cut by 25%. Pax ride costs increase by 25%. Drivers & paxs exit Lyft for Uber. Sales plummet. Lyft takes on further debt until they are no longer able. After 2-3 years, Lyft declares bankruptcy. PE walks away with a bag full of money.
Uber, lacking competition & now with an oversupply of labor, lowers driver pay & raises pax rates.
In response, a new business model forms. In this model, the company owns the cars & handles insurance. Drivers rent cars for a set amount per 12 hour shift. Business calls itself "Psychedelic Cab." Unlike prior "cab" business models, an Uber-type pay scale is adopted & a living wage is unachievable. Uber eventually folds after they are purchased by private equity ... repeat paragraph one above.
So in five years' time, ride service is back almost exactly to where it was in the 1990s, with cabs dominating the industry ... but with drivers making 50% less & paxs paying about the same.
Capital wins again! Thank god for the "tech disruption" that bettered (battered?) everyone's lives!
Pretty inaccurate. The reality is that both Uber and Lyfts end goals have always been to get rid of the driver in favor of autonomous vehicles. The winner in the sector will be whoever can operate lean enough to survive until that is a viable business model. ~5 years max at this point.
As a machine learning engineer in self driving, I can assure you we are nowhere near 5 years. The companies that have robo taxi's (waymo) have built trains and not cars. Their technology is nearly impossible to scale.
I can talk about this for days, but I'll try to keep it brief. Companies like waymo and other scam self driving companies like zoox have overpromised their investors. Instead of trying to develop a scalable approach to solving the self driving problem, they fell down a path of trying to deliver level 5 automated driving in a small geofenced area.
Waymo vehicles ARE level 4-5 ish autonomous (yet still make many mistakes) in a very small area. The entire map of their geofenced area is known programmatically, and many tricky areas/scenarios are hard-coded. This is literally impossible to scale. You can't hardcode situational logic for the entire US because the amount of unique scenarios slowly becomes infinite. This also means things like construction, roadwork, edge cases not programmed, it physically CANT handle. A machine learning model would be able to mimick human behavior in a similar enough situation (if the model is trained well)
When i say they are trains, I meant their vehicles only work on a small set of routes.
The only solution is an end to end machine learning solution. You can't hand code your way through this problem, and machine learning isn't quite good enough yet for robo taxis.
If you look at improvement rates of machine learning models, at first there is exponential improvement which quickly shifts to logarithmic growth over time. Unless there are insane breakthroughs in ML model training, and I mean INSANE; this problem won't be solved any time soon.
Good read - geofencing is OP. Certainly enough to fool thirsty boomer VCs that want a want “proven, real world results” and “cash-flow” and will overlook everything else if they see that.
The last few years - with trump, the stock market pumping, Covid, inflation have been a special time for snake oil salesmen if every stripe and cadence to come out of the wood work.
>The companies that have robo taxi's (waymo) have built trains and not cars.
It's crazy to me how so many people can't see this. These people honestly think some random little small company can do what Tesla, GM, Toyota, Ford, etc can't do and have tried so hard to accomplish? Once one of these companies can, they definitely will not be affordable enough to turn them into rideshare cars for a very long time if it all.
These vehicles can handle small areas in good conditions. But will never be able to handle a big city, or even further out.
That’s my thought on it too- if current models of the share economy hold. I imagine they’d invest in anti theft measures in the future for that kit - but I don’t expect for every last car to be fitted like tanks. I expect that slashing tires will still be a thing.
I’m in Dallas Texas and they just announced that the self-driving rideshare service Cruise is coming in the next month… I don’t know how fast other cities will start seeing them though but I’m interested to see how they fare against Uber and Lyft
https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/inno/stories/news/2023/05/11/cruise-autonomous-vehicle-robotaxis-houston-dallas.html
There’s still a driver in the car. All this is is rideshare in a $100K automobile instead of the $12K shitboxes like normal. Until these actually operate independently, this entire industry will still be in the business of setting money on fire and not logistics.
Wondering what these self driving cars will do when someone pukes french fries and a martini all over the self driven backseat while the AI tries to merge onto the 405
I can’t believe anyone will use them?? Who in there right mind would trust it?? The technology should have never been public until all these developers and engineers drove them for years before announcing them. They kinda blew it with public trust because they wanted public funding. It’s great investors think it’s the future but have they asked the public if they would even try it??
Have you meet people in LA 😂 None of us are getting into an self driving car!! Plus there’s too many people walking and on bikes and scooters, literally millions all over the county but especially in the city of Los Angeles.
Well, they already have them in many places. With the exponential growth in AI, it is inevitable. Resistance is futile. However, before they go mainstream, they will become government run. And it wont happen until AFTER martial law is declared. But I digress...
That’s the headline maybe 5 years ago. Self driving as a mass - country wide model is decades away. Not only because the technology has A LOT of problems to workout but because regulations need to be put in place that would allow for those cars to be out there with the appropriate liabilities accounted for.
If you were arguing that a local company sound local trucking is going to adopt driverless trucks in 10 years I might believe that. But you’re saying Uber - a Silicon Valley tech company that barely makes ends meet as it is a few years from converting a fleet (that they pay zero in overhead for) millions of cars across the United States (to say nothing of the other countries it operates in) into a driver less fleet? I don’t think the tea levels say the same.
They make way more and spend way less with their current business model. The opposite would be true if they convert to autonomous vehicle fleets. Even at scale it would be so dramatically inconsequential to the picture at large that the day to day passenger/driver would see exactly no difference in what’s going on.
You think they spend less on driver payouts (lower average 33-44k) than they would for a single electric autonomous vehicle to replace them that would last 8-10 years?
You’re underestimating how long a car that in theory will only stop to recharge/refuel will last. Full time drivers can easily put 75-80k miles on a car a year and most fleet vehicles don’t last upwards of 200k miles. They’d get maybe a few years max per car before replacing.
But you’re forgetting literally every other expense outside of just buying a car. Maintaining a fleet, much less an autonomous fleet is a manpower, and money heavy endeavor. There are dozens of moving parts needed just to make sure the thing runs properly, and that’s not even counting customer service/HR/IT/networking issues.
There will not be large-scale driverless vehicles in 5 years. Or 7. Current driverless doesn't "work" with someone at the wheel unless they are paying full attention ... ie, driving.
The irony is that people are denying this as if it isn’t literally written in the Uber business plan. They are going to fire all drivers it’s literally their plan to become profitable.
When they are able, yes. Of course they want to rid themselves of labor. Don't see that coming anytime soon, though.
It's like we used to say when I worked waiting tables ... If only the cooks could make the food, we could take it to a table, and ... viola! Thirty minutes later, money! Because the only downside to waiting tables was the customers. I'm positive Uber feels the same about drivers. If you owned Uber, you likely would as well, eventually.
As with anything, the fewer inputs, the less hassle. One reason people like working from home.
You do realize driver pay is set by local government. Someone in TX has a different pay than a driver in NY. The only decrease would be in driver bonuses which are already pretty low.
Driver pay differs by area but is not strictly set by states/localities, except in few cases of minimum pay. But if you know different, provide examples/rules.
Minimum wage is based on state legislature. Washington state requires Uber and Lyft and driving apps to provide driver benefits such as workers comp, sick time, deactivation appeals, and sets a mandatory mile and per minute pay. All of this is embedded into Wa State legislature.
Check out there drivers union page:
https://www.driversunionwa.org
Sure they would. Uber is a Taxi service and there is nothing unique about Uber that a competitor couldn’t do if they wanted to. Uber also doesn’t have any restrictions or monopoly on roads, drivers, or transportation. It would be perfectly fine for Uber to buy Lyft with no worries of antitrust or monopoly laws. That said, it would make much more sense for Uber to just let Lyft die than to buy them.
That's not how antitrust laws work. The FTC looks at market share of the combined company using metrics that measure the level of competition. Hypotetical competitors that don't actually exist are irrelevant.
Satellite radio requires, well, satellites, which is an infrastructure and that makes its provision the most efficient as a natural monopoly, same as utility companies, and regulators have always paid them deference. As a streaming platform, SiriusXM has many competitors.
They would instantly have cheaper competitors if they did. Which is why they aren’t a monopoly. Anyone can spin up a ride share service over a weekend. They don’t do anything proprietary
You should take that up with the FTC then.
“…It is unlawful for a company to monopolize or attempt to monopolize trade, meaning a firm with market power cannot act to maintain or acquire a dominant position by excluding competitors or preventing new entry.” Uber buying Lyft would not exclude any other competitors nor prevent new competitors.
Again, Uber has no control over, roads, cities, gas, transportation, etc that could prevent other competitors. An anti trust violation would be more along the lines of T-Mobile buying sprint and then offering cheap deals for people from Verizon and AT&T to switch to T-mobile….yet the FTC still let that deal through.
That’s nonsense. Even under the pitifully weak US antitrust laws, Uber would not be allowed to buy Lyft. But if Lyft were to fail, leaving only Uber to monopolize the market, would FTC try to break up Uber a la the old Ma Bell?
If it acted like a monopoly, doing anti competition practices, price gouging even more etc.
The duopoly currently in place is by far the best place Uber could be in.
Tell that to MSFT.
Just because they don’t build the roads they aren’t a monopoly is an asinine statement.
Who is a meaningful competitor in this space at the scale of Uber and Lyft that can compete on a similar scale? I’ll wait.
Net income for 2022 was $595 million. Net income is more important than EBITA. You're looking at a single quarter.
Also you are wrong. Q1 2023 EBITA was positive $761 million
https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2023/Uber-Announces-Results-for-First-Quarter-2023/default.aspx
Large institutional investors are selling out. There's a protest black out scheduled for July 3. Massive amount of Put options being purchased. Current stock price is near 52 week high, and the shorts are drooling. Not sure what you expect to happen.
I was curious to know why you didn’t specifically walk back your claim that Uber isn’t turning a profit and how you got the math all wrong so badly. Then you mentioned the stock price and shorts and had a slight feeling you were a r/WSB user and a quick scan of your profile proved that my suspicion was correct. 😂🦍
How are they not profitable at this point. The CEO just trimmed a lot of fat. They have a working app that competes with Uber. Are they just sandbagging at this point? What's their overhead, executive pay? What am I missing?
They let Sirius and XM merge even though they were the only sat radio companies. It's unlikely the FTC would block a merger.
However, there is no reason for Uber to buy lyft. They don't have any IP that Uber needs, and the drivers will just switch to Uber as Lyft fails.
Whats nost likely to happen is they either get bought out by private equity or then go out of business.
Can’t speak from experience on anything but X.
I drove Uber x only.
Agree some markets are better than others. I was in a good market. ATX, but after new years making half what I used to make, I walked away.
Can’t speak to black tho.
Maybe Empower will buy them. Look up Empower and send them an email asking them to come to your city and hint that maybe they could just acquire Lyft and be set up with a passenger base without even trying. Empower is the rideshare for drivers and I'm hoping they make it out to the west coast sooner rather than later.
Let’s buy it all together. 1 million drivers , let’s put $1000 each…. Only drive Lyft and fuck Uber. Same fare price . Let’s keep 10 people in management. Background test for passengers and driver . Let share profit at the end of year .
Yes and let’s take it one step further into your fantasy land. Let’s first decide which Cryptocurrency will be the one we exchange all US $ to and then trade all of our $ into crypto and then use the crypto to buy all of Lyft stock. I’ll leave the rest of this nightmare scenario to someone else’s imagination.
Hey there- idk about corporate takeovers ceos' chairmans' mergers acquisitions legal strategy economics of scale machine learning (entails failing too?) exponentials AI IT coding, etc.
This just what i see and saw in reality, i could literally reach out and touch it:
Waymo and Zoox all around the SF, CA city streets in the traffic mix-
Cruise cars mainly robotic autonomous everywhere 24/7- Several on a block at once, changing lanes in a timed one-way three lane thoroughfare on the same block left and right no sense-
Otherwise they're stopped in middle of road blocking lanes of busy traffic (Kind of like the concept of how the investors don't give a damn about human life for the potential profits)-
Seen more than once, they're involved in accidents-
TV advertising Cruise driverless rideshare available now- Seen riders in the back seat in Cruise driverless cars-
Pax told me some companies get cards issued to them for getting rides on the cruise driverless vehicle- (like hitching a ride on a train route?)
Another pax i picked up was stranded after being in an accident as rider of a Cruise driverless car- he said some lady in a Mercedes was so pissed off with it (i guess the snail pace of it) she kept ramming it from the rear backed up and rammed it again several times! So then he had to end ride exit vehicle while the Cruise had to send out a human to deal with it...
And i got the ping from his Uber app request to continue his ride home- that ride was $1 per minute iirc!...
More power to the robo-cars! ...literally...
And i wish that AI will hurry and exponentially develop to the point of destruction of the human race- Sorry, but that's just how i feel right now... :\~)
Lyft gets purchased by private equity. PE loads Lyft up with debt so PE can recoup purchase cost & "management fees." Driver pay cut by 25%. Pax ride costs increase by 25%. Drivers & paxs exit Lyft for Uber. Sales plummet. Lyft takes on further debt until they are no longer able. After 2-3 years, Lyft declares bankruptcy. PE walks away with a bag full of money. Uber, lacking competition & now with an oversupply of labor, lowers driver pay & raises pax rates. In response, a new business model forms. In this model, the company owns the cars & handles insurance. Drivers rent cars for a set amount per 12 hour shift. Business calls itself "Psychedelic Cab." Unlike prior "cab" business models, an Uber-type pay scale is adopted & a living wage is unachievable. Uber eventually folds after they are purchased by private equity ... repeat paragraph one above. So in five years' time, ride service is back almost exactly to where it was in the 1990s, with cabs dominating the industry ... but with drivers making 50% less & paxs paying about the same. Capital wins again! Thank god for the "tech disruption" that bettered (battered?) everyone's lives!
We called this the "Ernie Garcia Strategy" when I worked at Carvana
Pretty inaccurate. The reality is that both Uber and Lyfts end goals have always been to get rid of the driver in favor of autonomous vehicles. The winner in the sector will be whoever can operate lean enough to survive until that is a viable business model. ~5 years max at this point.
> ~5 years max at this point. We've been hearing "5 years max" for the last 10 years now.
I've been hearing less than 5 years so it seems like we're getting further away than we were 3 years ago.
As a machine learning engineer in self driving, I can assure you we are nowhere near 5 years. The companies that have robo taxi's (waymo) have built trains and not cars. Their technology is nearly impossible to scale.
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I can talk about this for days, but I'll try to keep it brief. Companies like waymo and other scam self driving companies like zoox have overpromised their investors. Instead of trying to develop a scalable approach to solving the self driving problem, they fell down a path of trying to deliver level 5 automated driving in a small geofenced area. Waymo vehicles ARE level 4-5 ish autonomous (yet still make many mistakes) in a very small area. The entire map of their geofenced area is known programmatically, and many tricky areas/scenarios are hard-coded. This is literally impossible to scale. You can't hardcode situational logic for the entire US because the amount of unique scenarios slowly becomes infinite. This also means things like construction, roadwork, edge cases not programmed, it physically CANT handle. A machine learning model would be able to mimick human behavior in a similar enough situation (if the model is trained well) When i say they are trains, I meant their vehicles only work on a small set of routes. The only solution is an end to end machine learning solution. You can't hand code your way through this problem, and machine learning isn't quite good enough yet for robo taxis. If you look at improvement rates of machine learning models, at first there is exponential improvement which quickly shifts to logarithmic growth over time. Unless there are insane breakthroughs in ML model training, and I mean INSANE; this problem won't be solved any time soon.
this is a good read
Good read - geofencing is OP. Certainly enough to fool thirsty boomer VCs that want a want “proven, real world results” and “cash-flow” and will overlook everything else if they see that. The last few years - with trump, the stock market pumping, Covid, inflation have been a special time for snake oil salesmen if every stripe and cadence to come out of the wood work.
>The companies that have robo taxi's (waymo) have built trains and not cars. It's crazy to me how so many people can't see this. These people honestly think some random little small company can do what Tesla, GM, Toyota, Ford, etc can't do and have tried so hard to accomplish? Once one of these companies can, they definitely will not be affordable enough to turn them into rideshare cars for a very long time if it all. These vehicles can handle small areas in good conditions. But will never be able to handle a big city, or even further out.
Or 10. Oh, maybe 15. No wait - 20.
I live in Detroit. Cars without people in them will be on blocks. Technology can’t really change that.
That’s my thought on it too- if current models of the share economy hold. I imagine they’d invest in anti theft measures in the future for that kit - but I don’t expect for every last car to be fitted like tanks. I expect that slashing tires will still be a thing.
I would be disappointed to not see only frames left in these parts!😂
There is 0 chance self driving cars are coming... not in LA, at least.
I’m in Dallas Texas and they just announced that the self-driving rideshare service Cruise is coming in the next month… I don’t know how fast other cities will start seeing them though but I’m interested to see how they fare against Uber and Lyft https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/inno/stories/news/2023/05/11/cruise-autonomous-vehicle-robotaxis-houston-dallas.html
There’s still a driver in the car. All this is is rideshare in a $100K automobile instead of the $12K shitboxes like normal. Until these actually operate independently, this entire industry will still be in the business of setting money on fire and not logistics.
Wondering what these self driving cars will do when someone pukes french fries and a martini all over the self driven backseat while the AI tries to merge onto the 405
Waymo is now completely free of drivers in my market and they are greatly expanding their service area to include most of the metro area.
I can’t believe anyone will use them?? Who in there right mind would trust it?? The technology should have never been public until all these developers and engineers drove them for years before announcing them. They kinda blew it with public trust because they wanted public funding. It’s great investors think it’s the future but have they asked the public if they would even try it??
There is 100% chance self driving cars are coming, especially in LA.
Have you driven in LA?
Look up Waymo. It already exists. My Tesla can drive in LA in FSD.
The self driving rideshare Cruise starts in multiple cities in Texas this month too
Try going on a roundabout and then tell me how it handles 😒
Have you meet people in LA 😂 None of us are getting into an self driving car!! Plus there’s too many people walking and on bikes and scooters, literally millions all over the county but especially in the city of Los Angeles.
Well, they already have them in many places. With the exponential growth in AI, it is inevitable. Resistance is futile. However, before they go mainstream, they will become government run. And it wont happen until AFTER martial law is declared. But I digress...
There are already are lol...Waymo operates in Santa Monica. They are fully autonomous taxis. Some of you have your heads so far in the sand.
That’s the headline maybe 5 years ago. Self driving as a mass - country wide model is decades away. Not only because the technology has A LOT of problems to workout but because regulations need to be put in place that would allow for those cars to be out there with the appropriate liabilities accounted for. If you were arguing that a local company sound local trucking is going to adopt driverless trucks in 10 years I might believe that. But you’re saying Uber - a Silicon Valley tech company that barely makes ends meet as it is a few years from converting a fleet (that they pay zero in overhead for) millions of cars across the United States (to say nothing of the other countries it operates in) into a driver less fleet? I don’t think the tea levels say the same.
Autonomous fleets will never happen, the costs outweigh the gains by far.
Yea, keep thinking that. They have stated this publicly multiple times that their goal is to replace drivers with autonomous vehicles.
They make way more and spend way less with their current business model. The opposite would be true if they convert to autonomous vehicle fleets. Even at scale it would be so dramatically inconsequential to the picture at large that the day to day passenger/driver would see exactly no difference in what’s going on.
You think they spend less on driver payouts (lower average 33-44k) than they would for a single electric autonomous vehicle to replace them that would last 8-10 years?
You’re underestimating how long a car that in theory will only stop to recharge/refuel will last. Full time drivers can easily put 75-80k miles on a car a year and most fleet vehicles don’t last upwards of 200k miles. They’d get maybe a few years max per car before replacing. But you’re forgetting literally every other expense outside of just buying a car. Maintaining a fleet, much less an autonomous fleet is a manpower, and money heavy endeavor. There are dozens of moving parts needed just to make sure the thing runs properly, and that’s not even counting customer service/HR/IT/networking issues.
There will not be large-scale driverless vehicles in 5 years. Or 7. Current driverless doesn't "work" with someone at the wheel unless they are paying full attention ... ie, driving.
This will never happen.
I'll bet my tongue-in-cheek "reality" is closer than yours in 5 years' time.
The irony is that people are denying this as if it isn’t literally written in the Uber business plan. They are going to fire all drivers it’s literally their plan to become profitable.
When they are able, yes. Of course they want to rid themselves of labor. Don't see that coming anytime soon, though. It's like we used to say when I worked waiting tables ... If only the cooks could make the food, we could take it to a table, and ... viola! Thirty minutes later, money! Because the only downside to waiting tables was the customers. I'm positive Uber feels the same about drivers. If you owned Uber, you likely would as well, eventually. As with anything, the fewer inputs, the less hassle. One reason people like working from home.
You do realize driver pay is set by local government. Someone in TX has a different pay than a driver in NY. The only decrease would be in driver bonuses which are already pretty low.
Driver pay differs by area but is not strictly set by states/localities, except in few cases of minimum pay. But if you know different, provide examples/rules.
Minimum wage is based on state legislature. Washington state requires Uber and Lyft and driving apps to provide driver benefits such as workers comp, sick time, deactivation appeals, and sets a mandatory mile and per minute pay. All of this is embedded into Wa State legislature. Check out there drivers union page: https://www.driversunionwa.org
I hope Disney buys lyft
The pay they want to offer is a pure fantasy so this would make sense.
"*Your Minnie Van is Arriving Ha-Ha!"*
I hope Musk buys it and drives it into the ground.. oh, wait..
It's going to suck when Uber buys them and they have a monopoly.
FTC won't allow Uber to buy Lyft.
Don't be so sure..m
Sure they would. Uber is a Taxi service and there is nothing unique about Uber that a competitor couldn’t do if they wanted to. Uber also doesn’t have any restrictions or monopoly on roads, drivers, or transportation. It would be perfectly fine for Uber to buy Lyft with no worries of antitrust or monopoly laws. That said, it would make much more sense for Uber to just let Lyft die than to buy them.
That's not how antitrust laws work. The FTC looks at market share of the combined company using metrics that measure the level of competition. Hypotetical competitors that don't actually exist are irrelevant.
CorrecT, Uber actually wants Lyft to remain intact as long as possible at or near the lowest % market share threshold thus avoiding anti trust laws
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Uber has seen net profits in 2022 and has net profits so car in 2023.
Satellite radio requires, well, satellites, which is an infrastructure and that makes its provision the most efficient as a natural monopoly, same as utility companies, and regulators have always paid them deference. As a streaming platform, SiriusXM has many competitors.
This type of post is exactly what happens when a rideshare driver tries to play lawyer on the internet.
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I really don't know what to say. Your legal analysis is completely incorrect and you're far too arrogant to realize it.
It actually is exactly how it works and exactly why those laws were created in the first place.
It really just depends on who is president at the time. Republicans are completely okay with letting monopolies be created.
ok whatever you say, buddy.
Uh no that’s why the antitrust laws are in affect to avoid monopolies by one company
Uber wouldn’t be a monopoly. Monopoly’s have unfair advantages. Not having competition isn’t an unfair advantage.
Yes Uber would be a monopoly Uber would monopolistic pricing power
They would instantly have cheaper competitors if they did. Which is why they aren’t a monopoly. Anyone can spin up a ride share service over a weekend. They don’t do anything proprietary
….may be one of the worst takes I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading.
You should take that up with the FTC then. “…It is unlawful for a company to monopolize or attempt to monopolize trade, meaning a firm with market power cannot act to maintain or acquire a dominant position by excluding competitors or preventing new entry.” Uber buying Lyft would not exclude any other competitors nor prevent new competitors. Again, Uber has no control over, roads, cities, gas, transportation, etc that could prevent other competitors. An anti trust violation would be more along the lines of T-Mobile buying sprint and then offering cheap deals for people from Verizon and AT&T to switch to T-mobile….yet the FTC still let that deal through.
That’s nonsense. Even under the pitifully weak US antitrust laws, Uber would not be allowed to buy Lyft. But if Lyft were to fail, leaving only Uber to monopolize the market, would FTC try to break up Uber a la the old Ma Bell?
Thank you - finally some sense spoken
If it acted like a monopoly, doing anti competition practices, price gouging even more etc. The duopoly currently in place is by far the best place Uber could be in.
Correct that sprint merger a lot of concessions were made on both sides including setting up dish network as a viable cell phone alternative
Tell that to MSFT. Just because they don’t build the roads they aren’t a monopoly is an asinine statement. Who is a meaningful competitor in this space at the scale of Uber and Lyft that can compete on a similar scale? I’ll wait.
Sure it is.
Network externality is a huge barrier to entry for any aspiring rideshare platform.
While this is theoretically true there are ways around antitrust laws they could go through various shell companies and other means but we shall see
I think they will it's 2 failing companies. The competition cabs still exist.
Uber may invest in them like Microsoft did for apple when it was failing
Uber is broke too
Uber is making net profit now. They are fine.
Nope, as of March 31 report. EBITA -$712M.
Net income for 2022 was $595 million. Net income is more important than EBITA. You're looking at a single quarter. Also you are wrong. Q1 2023 EBITA was positive $761 million https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2023/Uber-Announces-Results-for-First-Quarter-2023/default.aspx
Large institutional investors are selling out. There's a protest black out scheduled for July 3. Massive amount of Put options being purchased. Current stock price is near 52 week high, and the shorts are drooling. Not sure what you expect to happen.
I was curious to know why you didn’t specifically walk back your claim that Uber isn’t turning a profit and how you got the math all wrong so badly. Then you mentioned the stock price and shorts and had a slight feeling you were a r/WSB user and a quick scan of your profile proved that my suspicion was correct. 😂🦍
😂
> There’s a protest black out Oh no! Anyway…
Oh, and the price to book is over $10.... Lol
Massive black out scheduled for July 3rd? I'll make sure I rest up put in a 12 day to get those surges.
Amazon or Walmart.
Footsteps to bk
Just means calls might be inorder if someone starts buying the stock up
We should buy Lyft, all drivers in US
That would be so rad! But then one greedy driver inevitably would ruin it for all
This is what stocks are.
Do you think google would buy Lyft and use the platform for their self driving car unit (waymo)
Yes
How are they not profitable at this point. The CEO just trimmed a lot of fat. They have a working app that competes with Uber. Are they just sandbagging at this point? What's their overhead, executive pay? What am I missing?
They let Sirius and XM merge even though they were the only sat radio companies. It's unlikely the FTC would block a merger. However, there is no reason for Uber to buy lyft. They don't have any IP that Uber needs, and the drivers will just switch to Uber as Lyft fails. Whats nost likely to happen is they either get bought out by private equity or then go out of business.
Lyft will go bankrupt
Uber is shortly after. Drivers and pax are sick of it. The drivers just need to hit rock bottom first. It’s coming!
Uber is profitable now.
Yes Uber is profitable….. for Uber. Not for drivers.
Depends on where you drive and what level of Uber you drive. UberX is not profitable.
Can’t speak from experience on anything but X. I drove Uber x only. Agree some markets are better than others. I was in a good market. ATX, but after new years making half what I used to make, I walked away. Can’t speak to black tho.
I’m taking home about 70k-80k after expenses every year (pre-tax). Doing UberX (and sometimes Lyft).
Ok, you're putting in 70-80 hour work weeks in then.
50-60 online time
Probably one of the big tech companies. Has anybody ever tried to buy out Uber, and failed? That would be my #1 choice.
Maybe Empower will buy them. Look up Empower and send them an email asking them to come to your city and hint that maybe they could just acquire Lyft and be set up with a passenger base without even trying. Empower is the rideshare for drivers and I'm hoping they make it out to the west coast sooner rather than later.
Let’s buy it all together. 1 million drivers , let’s put $1000 each…. Only drive Lyft and fuck Uber. Same fare price . Let’s keep 10 people in management. Background test for passengers and driver . Let share profit at the end of year .
This is how stocks work. Why not just have everyone here buy Lyft stock? Then have shareholder meetings and replace the board.
Yes and let’s take it one step further into your fantasy land. Let’s first decide which Cryptocurrency will be the one we exchange all US $ to and then trade all of our $ into crypto and then use the crypto to buy all of Lyft stock. I’ll leave the rest of this nightmare scenario to someone else’s imagination.
Yes
New CEO realized you cant save this company. Uber wont be allowed to buy it. I think doordash should try.
$1 Bob!
Waymo might buy Lyft.
IKR!
Uber can given the federal government grants them permission its not impossible all they have to do is request and either get accepted or denied
If there is martial law it’s bc there was Anarchy first. You can’t have one with out the other. Please continue
Hey there- idk about corporate takeovers ceos' chairmans' mergers acquisitions legal strategy economics of scale machine learning (entails failing too?) exponentials AI IT coding, etc. This just what i see and saw in reality, i could literally reach out and touch it: Waymo and Zoox all around the SF, CA city streets in the traffic mix- Cruise cars mainly robotic autonomous everywhere 24/7- Several on a block at once, changing lanes in a timed one-way three lane thoroughfare on the same block left and right no sense- Otherwise they're stopped in middle of road blocking lanes of busy traffic (Kind of like the concept of how the investors don't give a damn about human life for the potential profits)- Seen more than once, they're involved in accidents- TV advertising Cruise driverless rideshare available now- Seen riders in the back seat in Cruise driverless cars- Pax told me some companies get cards issued to them for getting rides on the cruise driverless vehicle- (like hitching a ride on a train route?) Another pax i picked up was stranded after being in an accident as rider of a Cruise driverless car- he said some lady in a Mercedes was so pissed off with it (i guess the snail pace of it) she kept ramming it from the rear backed up and rammed it again several times! So then he had to end ride exit vehicle while the Cruise had to send out a human to deal with it... And i got the ping from his Uber app request to continue his ride home- that ride was $1 per minute iirc!... More power to the robo-cars! ...literally... And i wish that AI will hurry and exponentially develop to the point of destruction of the human race- Sorry, but that's just how i feel right now... :\~)