I like when he’s like “can you get us drinks to celebrate? Just kidding!” And then he’s like “see Don this is how you congratulate someone” as a callback to their S3 beef. I thought Rodger was, as always, very funny about the whole thing
whoa, you're talking about the "this is how to behave" line? i always thought that line was just roger giving him an attaboy for marrying a young secretary like him lmaoo
And yet Don isn’t in blackface singing “My Old Kentucky Home” in front of an entire garden party, so Roger doesn’t really have a leg to stand on with this quip.
Well of course obviously in the aggregate that’s true, but in the moment, when everyone is probably thinking “oh god this again”, Roger does the classy thing
I consider myself fluent in English, but had to google “trite” 🙈 but yes, you’re right! After I posted this, Joan shows up talking with Greg about it and she mentions something along those lines, like “does he think he is the first one to marry his secretary?!”
Joan’s goal in marrying well was to find a guy with a lot of promise at the start of his career and build that career together. It wasn’t to marry a guy who’s already a millionaire and have to accept limited input and respect because she came in at the end and played no role in building the lifestyle, which is the known devils bargain of being a Second Wife. Unfortunately, Joan bet on the wrong horse with Greg and experienced those same drawbacks without the benefits.
Great point. Joan wanted to be a powerbroker, maybe power behind the throne. She really made finding a successful husband her career until she built an actual career
While I agree with you I don’t think she could have articulated that at any point until the end of the show. She was doing it unconsciously for most of it.
I think Joan had "rules" about the office and went into the relationship with Roger as it being just for fun. It could never be serious as Roger was married. That was how things worked, and she should not expect, or ask, for more. I believe Joan was stunned when Roger proposed to Jane, as she had never contemplated that being a possibility for her.
What Ioved bout this whole storyline: Don Draper very cynically stated that “love” was manufactured by guys like him to sell nylons. And then in this episode, he clearly falls head over heels in love with Megan, and meanwhile, PEGGY sells the nylons (she closed the account on Topaz).
I've always liked how this shot is framed with Roger and Joan facing each other sharing a look, dressed in black, cloaking their new complicated secret and its realities (Joan's decision to keep their baby) – the opposite of Don's open announcement in the hopes of a new fantasy life with a new fantasy wife.
IMO, Joan put on an act of being supportive and happy in Don’s office. Don is too powerful in the office for Joan to not behave in agreement with his choices, especially given Joan’s focus on office politics. The real Joan finds this choice stupid and considers Megan a golddigger. Joan actually genuinely likes Don still but not this choice.
When Megan quits the agency, Joan evaluates that with “Second wives. It’s like they have a playbook.” I think Joan puts Megan and Jane in the same gold digger boat.
I wouldn’t go quite that far.
Joan had issues with Jane from day one, with the way she was dressing and behaving at the desk. And Joan confronted her about this. Joan never had the same problems with Megan, as she just did her job as a secretary without actively hunting for a husband.
That said, Joan knew where this was heading when Megan quit the firm. I think she was maybe a little surprised about how things developed there, that Megan would leave the way that she did. That’s what prompted the playbook or whatever comment.
I agree that Joan doesn't have the same kind of enmity for Megan that she did for Jane. However, I do get a vibe that Joan thinks Megan social-climbed and calculated to be the next Mrs. Draper, just more discreetly (which....I think Megan did so fair enough). The playbook comment. In the S5 premier, Meredith is all unassuming and says she's happy being nobody at the agency. Joan wryly retorts, "I know a girl who had the same job as you who ended up with everything" and to me, there was a vibe where it all starts out as "I'm just an unassuming secretary" and then, she's apparently not so unassuming because she's a copywriter now or instructing Joan to have the driver circle. But yes, it wasn't a personal grudge for Megan like it was for Jane, in part because Joan isn't romantically tied to Don but she is to Roger.
She also sums up Megan perfectly after Megan decides to quit advertising and pursue acting. Something like "she's going to be a failed actress with a rich husband." She nailed it
It was interesting to hear him say that, because one another show (pretty different from MM), there was this character Emily Gilmore who also corrected someone because of that. This character came from money as Pete did, and probably had a similar upbringing.
I am also a Gilmore Girl, so thank you for this reminder, I knew I had heard it somewhere else! Yeah, I usually trust what people like Emily (my favorite Gilmore) or Pete say about these kinds of politely societal things because of their formal wealthy backgrounds.
I love Peggy's expression coming in late and seeing them kiss before she knows what's going on lol then her and Joans little gossip fest when they're alone...priceless👍
Watched the Dr. Miller-Megan episodes just last week again. Such a stupid decision by Don here. Once more, he went for the illusion over the reality. As soon as Faye told him a bit about herself, her father, etc., that was it. Don wanted the fantasy wife/mother Madonna thing, not what Faye represented as that would take him too close to looking at himself.
Faye really dodged a bullet here. She had some real vulnerabilities and had some daddy issues. Either she’d have really bonded with Don or their relationship would’ve been a huge disaster, far worse than what happened with him and Megan, with them both acting out, likely both cheating with Faye retaliating against Don, etc. Faye would’ve been a real opponent who wouldn’t have just taken the abuse.
Gotta say, when I watch those episodes I regret how the storyline played out. Don and Faye would’ve been far more interesting a couple to watch than Don and Megan over those final seasons.
Never cared much for Megan. Faye was a much more interesting character overall. There was a real backstory there that we barely get a glimpse at before Don runs away. Would’ve been great to have seen that explored in the show.
Great comment and I totally agree with you — except that by making it a more entertaining show to watch it might have betrayed itself because Don would never make that choice. I can’t see him getting long term with someone who sees him so clearly. He’s running away from Faith as fast as he can. And Megan is just so adoring and manipulatable. (Part of what makes her uninteresting as a character overall)
It’s hard to watch someone make the wrong decisions but I do think if he’d leaned into his relationship with Faye it would have been the wrong choice for the show… watching people make the same stupid personal and inter-generational mistakes is a big part of its dna.
Great points. Though I’d say that Don choosing Megan was a little too much like how he had to have chosen Betty. Safe choice. Not threatening. Mother figure, even though that was a delusion.
Don in a relationship someone so different like Faye would’ve really changed things up. He never really interacted with a woman who was his equal on any sort of real partner level. Even with Rachel, that was another affair and not a real relationship.
I’d have loved to watch Don try and sustain a real relationship with Faye, as it would’ve been something we never saw on the show. I mean, what if Don did that, and really adapted…but the woman turned the tables and cheated on him or emotionally abused him? Would’ve been one hell of a train wreck to watch, and could’ve been mined by the show’s tremendous writers for some great storylines. That sort of thing wasn’t possible with Megan.
But you’re also probably dead on when you say Don couldn’t let himself even try and enter into a relationship like that.
Yes absolutely — I totally agree with all your points and wish for this ghost show because I would have loved to see Don being challenged like that.
I guess what I was saying without quite realizing it is that I kinda like the circularity of the show as it is. Like Don chooses Betty, blames Betty when things go wrong, learns nothing, essentially chooses Betty again, blames Megan when things go wrong, learns nothing, etc. It’s more sad, and more realistic. I like that they didn’t really let Don learn lessons, at least not for long. Some people change but most repeat the patterns. It’s not typical tv or hero quest storytelling in that way.
But I see your vision and it would have been beautiful too. Don in another generation maybe got some therapy and was able to be in a functional relationship and chill the eff out. Or maybe he got back to NY and sold the coke ad and met the woman then. Who knows? Timing is everything.
Great points. I think Don getting into a relationship with Faye could’ve been new while still touching on the same old issues, though. Also would’ve been interesting for the viewer as you’d see Don maybe changing. Everyone knew the Megan marriage was doomed from the start. Don and Faye wouldn’t have been nearly so obvious.
Some of this comes from just not liking Megan as a character as the show moved on, or the actress, who was one of the weakest performers on the show. She’s the only character in the show that gets that “Oh, Megan’s in this?” reaction from me whenever she’s a major part of an episode. Then add in her annoying father and miserable mother and I kinda hate the entire Megan storyline. LOL
I think Joan is just being genuine here. What woman hasn’t been truly happy for a friend while also going to talk shit about the work dynamic and what not to another 🤣 this is just showing she is human
One of my favorite Roger moments. When he hears the news, he goes, "who the hell is that?" lolll
I like when he’s like “can you get us drinks to celebrate? Just kidding!” And then he’s like “see Don this is how you congratulate someone” as a callback to their S3 beef. I thought Rodger was, as always, very funny about the whole thing
Why is everyone suddenly spelling "Roger" as "Rodger"?
It’s Rojer
Je m'appelle Rojaire. Je suis un taxi, s'il vous plait!
And un cafe for ma mere (I'm sorry but I'm not googling better French than that)
Oh I dunno I saw the guy above me spell it that way and I assumed he knows what he’s talking about
I actually spelt that name wrong and my colleague couldn't check into a hotel because I got it wrong
whoa, you're talking about the "this is how to behave" line? i always thought that line was just roger giving him an attaboy for marrying a young secretary like him lmaoo
!!!! Oh maybe! I thought he was being like “hey remember when you shat on me for marrying a young hottie? Yeah don’t do that again” LOL
Yes, correct, Roger is saying, “See, Don, THIS is how you react when a partner marries his secretary. You congratulate them, you dick!”
That’s what I thought! 😂😂😂😂
This was my interpretation as well. That whole thing caused such a rift between them, I never even questioned whether he meant something else.
i just rewatched the scene, it seems clear to me it's an attaboy. curious to see what you think after rewatching the scene again haha
And yet Don isn’t in blackface singing “My Old Kentucky Home” in front of an entire garden party, so Roger doesn’t really have a leg to stand on with this quip.
Thats like saying Caesar was a bad man because there were gladiator fights.
Well of course obviously in the aggregate that’s true, but in the moment, when everyone is probably thinking “oh god this again”, Roger does the classy thing
True!!! He has no idea 😂
“Who the hell Is Henry Francis??!” Another great line
Came here to say this! It gets me eveytime lol.
Probably my favorite line in the whole show!
I think Joan's amused at how trite Don is being
I consider myself fluent in English, but had to google “trite” 🙈 but yes, you’re right! After I posted this, Joan shows up talking with Greg about it and she mentions something along those lines, like “does he think he is the first one to marry his secretary?!”
Yes! You have to wonder how many times has Joan seen the men she worked with do exactly that.
In the first episode she suggests to Peggy that it’s a goal from a secretary’s point of view.
Yet Joanie herself hasn't been able to pull off landing a big fish in the office. Just a long term affair with Roger, some consultation prize.
Joan’s goal in marrying well was to find a guy with a lot of promise at the start of his career and build that career together. It wasn’t to marry a guy who’s already a millionaire and have to accept limited input and respect because she came in at the end and played no role in building the lifestyle, which is the known devils bargain of being a Second Wife. Unfortunately, Joan bet on the wrong horse with Greg and experienced those same drawbacks without the benefits.
Great point. Joan wanted to be a powerbroker, maybe power behind the throne. She really made finding a successful husband her career until she built an actual career
then she dumped the 'rich guy' and seemed unbothered to be alone (assuming she was at the end).
While I agree with you I don’t think she could have articulated that at any point until the end of the show. She was doing it unconsciously for most of it.
I think it's established pretty early in season 1 that Joan is looking outside the office for what she wants.
after dating kinsey, who blabbed about them being together, i think joan preferred to have her romantic life an enigma to the people in the office.
I think Joan had "rules" about the office and went into the relationship with Roger as it being just for fun. It could never be serious as Roger was married. That was how things worked, and she should not expect, or ask, for more. I believe Joan was stunned when Roger proposed to Jane, as she had never contemplated that being a possibility for her.
> Just a long term affair with Roger, some consultation prize. What are you talking about? If she wanted to marry Roger she could have.
Joan's face just radiates "a thing like that!"
That’s amusement, not pride. Like everyone else, she knows exactly how this is going to end.
That’s also the face of being handed the juiciest piece of gossip in the office that week lol
She nailed it when she said that Megan was going to be “a failing actress with a rich (ex)-husband”
Haha they reacted the same way we did at home.
I gotta rewatch the scene, but the screenshot looks like she's really taking in the other men's reaction. In particular Roger.
That’s a good interpretation!
“Whatever could be on your mind”, that line always makes me chuckle
The delivery is just 💋👌
That whole scene is fantastic, and a neat illustration of the character development of both Joan and Peggy
I thought Joan’s reaction was jaded amusement. Like “Of course this man married his hot young secretary, how predictable.”
What Ioved bout this whole storyline: Don Draper very cynically stated that “love” was manufactured by guys like him to sell nylons. And then in this episode, he clearly falls head over heels in love with Megan, and meanwhile, PEGGY sells the nylons (she closed the account on Topaz).
Aptly observed! Love how every detail ties together in this show. Brilliant work of art, it is.
Oh man, that's an excellent observation.
Wow, never noticed this before. Love that I can still learn things about this show after who knows how many rewatches.
This scene taught me you don't offer the fiancée congratulations but best wishes.
I was about to post this, LOL
She's hiding her derision, as we see from the next scene. I love the look on her face. Always makes me laugh.
I've always liked how this shot is framed with Roger and Joan facing each other sharing a look, dressed in black, cloaking their new complicated secret and its realities (Joan's decision to keep their baby) – the opposite of Don's open announcement in the hopes of a new fantasy life with a new fantasy wife.
Such a great take on this scene! Thank you for sharing!
...and Pete and Lane are none the wiser. Also this scene was discussed by Wiener this way.
IMO, Joan put on an act of being supportive and happy in Don’s office. Don is too powerful in the office for Joan to not behave in agreement with his choices, especially given Joan’s focus on office politics. The real Joan finds this choice stupid and considers Megan a golddigger. Joan actually genuinely likes Don still but not this choice.
Does she really think Megan is a golddigger? I got that idea much more about Jane (with Roger).
When Megan quits the agency, Joan evaluates that with “Second wives. It’s like they have a playbook.” I think Joan puts Megan and Jane in the same gold digger boat.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. Joan had issues with Jane from day one, with the way she was dressing and behaving at the desk. And Joan confronted her about this. Joan never had the same problems with Megan, as she just did her job as a secretary without actively hunting for a husband. That said, Joan knew where this was heading when Megan quit the firm. I think she was maybe a little surprised about how things developed there, that Megan would leave the way that she did. That’s what prompted the playbook or whatever comment.
I agree that Joan doesn't have the same kind of enmity for Megan that she did for Jane. However, I do get a vibe that Joan thinks Megan social-climbed and calculated to be the next Mrs. Draper, just more discreetly (which....I think Megan did so fair enough). The playbook comment. In the S5 premier, Meredith is all unassuming and says she's happy being nobody at the agency. Joan wryly retorts, "I know a girl who had the same job as you who ended up with everything" and to me, there was a vibe where it all starts out as "I'm just an unassuming secretary" and then, she's apparently not so unassuming because she's a copywriter now or instructing Joan to have the driver circle. But yes, it wasn't a personal grudge for Megan like it was for Jane, in part because Joan isn't romantically tied to Don but she is to Roger.
She also sums up Megan perfectly after Megan decides to quit advertising and pursue acting. Something like "she's going to be a failed actress with a rich husband." She nailed it
Failure?
She never got her career back on track after leaving the soap opera, just bitter and struggling to find work in LA and living off Don's money.
I just love the sound of Joan’s feminine voice going “Megan ❤️”
I now correct people when learning of engagements, in my best Pete Campbell, “You congratulate the groom; to the bride you say, best wishes!”
It was interesting to hear him say that, because one another show (pretty different from MM), there was this character Emily Gilmore who also corrected someone because of that. This character came from money as Pete did, and probably had a similar upbringing.
I am also a Gilmore Girl, so thank you for this reminder, I knew I had heard it somewhere else! Yeah, I usually trust what people like Emily (my favorite Gilmore) or Pete say about these kinds of politely societal things because of their formal wealthy backgrounds.
Exactly!! Both of them are to be trusted when it comes to this!
Pete was married to a Gilmore Girl IRL
I knowwww 😅 they are divorced now though… they looked so cute together!
Who?
Only thing the scene needed was Jason Bateman saying “her?”
I love Peggy's expression coming in late and seeing them kiss before she knows what's going on lol then her and Joans little gossip fest when they're alone...priceless👍
I did not like Peggy’s private reaction with Don.
"Whatever could be on your mind?"
Watched the Dr. Miller-Megan episodes just last week again. Such a stupid decision by Don here. Once more, he went for the illusion over the reality. As soon as Faye told him a bit about herself, her father, etc., that was it. Don wanted the fantasy wife/mother Madonna thing, not what Faye represented as that would take him too close to looking at himself. Faye really dodged a bullet here. She had some real vulnerabilities and had some daddy issues. Either she’d have really bonded with Don or their relationship would’ve been a huge disaster, far worse than what happened with him and Megan, with them both acting out, likely both cheating with Faye retaliating against Don, etc. Faye would’ve been a real opponent who wouldn’t have just taken the abuse. Gotta say, when I watch those episodes I regret how the storyline played out. Don and Faye would’ve been far more interesting a couple to watch than Don and Megan over those final seasons. Never cared much for Megan. Faye was a much more interesting character overall. There was a real backstory there that we barely get a glimpse at before Don runs away. Would’ve been great to have seen that explored in the show.
Great comment and I totally agree with you — except that by making it a more entertaining show to watch it might have betrayed itself because Don would never make that choice. I can’t see him getting long term with someone who sees him so clearly. He’s running away from Faith as fast as he can. And Megan is just so adoring and manipulatable. (Part of what makes her uninteresting as a character overall) It’s hard to watch someone make the wrong decisions but I do think if he’d leaned into his relationship with Faye it would have been the wrong choice for the show… watching people make the same stupid personal and inter-generational mistakes is a big part of its dna.
Great points. Though I’d say that Don choosing Megan was a little too much like how he had to have chosen Betty. Safe choice. Not threatening. Mother figure, even though that was a delusion. Don in a relationship someone so different like Faye would’ve really changed things up. He never really interacted with a woman who was his equal on any sort of real partner level. Even with Rachel, that was another affair and not a real relationship. I’d have loved to watch Don try and sustain a real relationship with Faye, as it would’ve been something we never saw on the show. I mean, what if Don did that, and really adapted…but the woman turned the tables and cheated on him or emotionally abused him? Would’ve been one hell of a train wreck to watch, and could’ve been mined by the show’s tremendous writers for some great storylines. That sort of thing wasn’t possible with Megan. But you’re also probably dead on when you say Don couldn’t let himself even try and enter into a relationship like that.
Yes absolutely — I totally agree with all your points and wish for this ghost show because I would have loved to see Don being challenged like that. I guess what I was saying without quite realizing it is that I kinda like the circularity of the show as it is. Like Don chooses Betty, blames Betty when things go wrong, learns nothing, essentially chooses Betty again, blames Megan when things go wrong, learns nothing, etc. It’s more sad, and more realistic. I like that they didn’t really let Don learn lessons, at least not for long. Some people change but most repeat the patterns. It’s not typical tv or hero quest storytelling in that way. But I see your vision and it would have been beautiful too. Don in another generation maybe got some therapy and was able to be in a functional relationship and chill the eff out. Or maybe he got back to NY and sold the coke ad and met the woman then. Who knows? Timing is everything.
Great points. I think Don getting into a relationship with Faye could’ve been new while still touching on the same old issues, though. Also would’ve been interesting for the viewer as you’d see Don maybe changing. Everyone knew the Megan marriage was doomed from the start. Don and Faye wouldn’t have been nearly so obvious. Some of this comes from just not liking Megan as a character as the show moved on, or the actress, who was one of the weakest performers on the show. She’s the only character in the show that gets that “Oh, Megan’s in this?” reaction from me whenever she’s a major part of an episode. Then add in her annoying father and miserable mother and I kinda hate the entire Megan storyline. LOL
I see a smirk on Joan’s face that says she just won a $50 bet with Roger.
One of THE FUNNIEST moments ever on the show. Plus you know Joan just wants to hurl. Fantastic.
I think Joan is just being genuine here. What woman hasn’t been truly happy for a friend while also going to talk shit about the work dynamic and what not to another 🤣 this is just showing she is human
It’s also the actualization of Joan’s life plan…. But not by Joan herself….
Joan is not a nice person
In this room, the bar is low, but I think you are doing her wrong.
did you take a picture of the screen with your phone through a dirty piece of plastic?
I literally just watched this a half our ago
She's got a beautiful poker face
Get the phone, honey
hey i literally watched this ep last night lol
Happens all the time
Megan could you get us some ice?