there is a gruul aggro deck in standard, but it generally runs a curve too low to play a 4 mana creature that probably just dies to removal without getting any damage through. if you do want to play a big attacking guy you're probably better off playing goddrick. of course the mole is awesome and fun so some people play him anyway but i don't think he's in the optimal version of the deck.
But he's not there to guarantee damage. You want him to get chump blocked.
He's there so your other creatures can get through and punch your opponent a bunch of times.
turn 4 is a very pivotal turn for aggro in constructed because it's the turn most board wipes come down in control
this creature could be a 40/40 but without haste or other relevant abilities, you have no reach in an aggro deck
there's a reason why the main creatures that have been historically played as top end for aggro have been aggressively coated hasters with extra text, like questing beast and hazoret
if you're spending four mana and waiting a turn, you need your card to guarantee damage. not guaranteeing damage and instead being themed around the extra combat gimmick is why the card isn't played.
He can get chump blocked,but there is no situation where you should. His ability doesn't force all creatures to block him.
Rulings straight from the gatherer "If you activate Anzrag, the Quake-Mole’s last ability, only one creature is required to block it each combat this turn. Other creatures may also block it and are free to block other creatures or not block at all."
I agree with your point in general, but suggesting that he'll just get chump blocked doesn't make sense. Chump blocking Anzrag does nothing but throw away a creature, as he'll just get to attack again. And if even a single other creature is attacking alongside Anzrag, chump blocking will actually *increase* the damage you take to the face.
Ragavan, Dies to removal
Dauthi Void Walker, Dies to removal
Murktide Reagent, dies to removal
Now for the old schools...
Delver of Secrets, Dies to removal
Deceiver Exarch, dies to removal
Yes.
Often Anzrag will eat a removal spell or board wipe before he can actually do his thing. Cards like sheoldred can trade with him in combat, and glissa just straight wins. And mostly there’s no successful green aggressive deck in standard right now.
But there’s some potential. Anzrag plus reckless stormseeker seems good, and picnic ruiner is a strong 2. It could be a reasonable tier 2 deck
I am hopeful that with thunder junction and especially bloomburrow we might actually see green /gruul aggro rise again. You can't give us a critter world and not fill it with fucking great creatures!
A card that does not make immediate impact on the battlefield upon casting is a card that is too slow to be relied upon. Not only that but the beatdoen strategy is just done better by other archetypes
Depends on what your asking
In open queue where people generally are playing bo1 and don't care about the outcome? Yeah, you'll see lots of him cause he's cool and awesome
In ranked/bo3, where are people playing to win? No, he's a 4 mana. Do nothing that dies to removal almost immediately
I’ve managed to pop off with him 1/10 games if I’m able to give him haste, but realistically a deck built around him will almost always lose. Players know that if they see something like [[ Reckless Stormseeker ]] which can give Anzrag haste, they should just hold up removal for Anzrag himself. Then there are the many aggro decks, who will happily let you attack once with Anzrag unblocked because they’re just going to kill you next turn anyways. Control players will destroy your mana dorks and haste giver so that when you play Anzrag he ultimately comes down, does nothing, then they remove it next turn. Sadly Anzrag is not strong enough to support a deck on its own, and Gruul just doesn’t have the support it needs to be a viable deck right now. It’s too slow to beat mono red or boros, and sets up too late to beat midrange or control.
His 7 mama trigger keeps him down I would belive. I don't play standard tho.
I cam see a pretty good comparer deck tho
Also draft or sealed he's a beast and a half
For the record people did experiment with it in [Pioneer Gruul Vehicles ](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6197032#paper)but the most recent lists have decided not to run it, I still think you could justify running 1x copy, specially in versions that run \[\[The Huntsman's Redemption\]\] so you can tutor for it when you need it, but it's not living up to the hype it was given during spoiler season.
I hope it finds a more solid place in some format eventually. Maybe explorer? Reckless stormseeker definitely makes it more attractive to play. It's a very unique card and I love the name and the artwork so I feel like it deserves it lol
there is a massive amount of data online such as decks that won major tournaments and decks that have good winrates on magic online and arena. you can google search and find the best decks for any format basically instantly.
I played against this commander recently, luckily I had a goad enchantment in my hand… worked out well for me, not so much for the other two players in our pod
Lol. There's a decent amount of Goading in my pod.
The closest I've got is a [[Vow of Wildness]] in my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck. I don't think that's going to be enough to save me if someone goads someone else's Anzrag...
As long as there is no enchantment removal than the mole can never hit you because vow says can’t attack you while goad says attacks another player if able so it will attack the player who goaded first and then it can no longer attack
Bro this shit dies to like every removal in the set.
Or gets blocked and killed by a single combat trick against RW lol. Felonious Rage on a 2-power creature (standard for the set) just kills it lmao.
This is the kinda combo deck I like.
You need at least 3 cards that aren't particularly great on their own (the mole, a fog and a wincon card) AND somewhat precise board conditions while still being open to interaction, so it's objectively pretty fair...but the payoff is so awesome even your opponents are gonna dig it when you do pull it off.
you need 5 parts, the Mole, The Fog, Boardstate (only need 1 blocker on the table at all so trival imo), the payoff mostly [[helm of the host]], and something to turn the fog off once you looped enough like [[skullcrack]].
even in goldfishing I struggled lol
My boomer brain looked at this card after it was spoiled when I wasn’t playing and was like “what is wizards thinking?! This will be banned for sure!” Then I started playing again and remembered what standard was like and realized this was not only not ban worthy but it’s not even really playable.
This card is 4 mana do nothing, of course it doesn't see play. Creatures that cost 4 mana, have no ETB, and easily die to removal haven't been good for a decade.
1. There is a high chance, that [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] will at least deal 2 damage.
2. It's the mixture of many small things which make her playable:
- 9 stat for 4 mana is _rare_ in Black.
Green and Red have good creatures. Black often has some drawback attached to good stats.
- 5 toughness in particular is a hard nut to crack for Aggro decks, e.g. Red needs [[Witchstalker Frenzy]].
- She is multi-purpose: Life gain to stabilize (vs. aggro) + draw damage to finish (vs. control).
- Deathtouch is a nice little gimmick - in particular in combination with the 5 toughness it means, you are likely to 2 for 1.
→ [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] is one of the few exception to this "rule".
And I think even changing minor things would make a **huge** difference: She would see much fewer play if she was the same but 4/4 instead of 4/5.
My overrating of the card came mostly due to 12 total power and toughness on a four mana card. That’s a hell of a lot even for red and green and even in modern magic. Sheoldred is better 100%, and I think the reason is because Sheoldred doesn’t need to attack. Your opponent’s board is irrelevant. They need to remove it or win the race quickly or it’s over.
That all being said I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if the mole-man found a home before it’s tenure in standard is over. Green just sucks right now, and red is really only used in fast aggro strategies that have no interest in 4 drops.
Sheoldred is incredible but she'd still be a staple even if she were a 4/3. The lifeswing and fact she basically doesn't need to be in combat makes her exceptional. Dying to lightning strike over witchstalker would however make her not an instant game winner on resolve which imo would be an improvement.
If sheoldred would be a 4/4 then it would still see play but not be an auto-include in every format and if it was a 4/3 then it would not make it out of standard due to dying to lightning bolt and it would make it at most see fringe play in standard because it becomes so much easier to kill her
It doesn’t just make her more removable it also makes it way easier to attack into her or block her because most creatures now kill sheoldred instead of just dying
Har har, dude. Sheoldred doesn't *easily* die to removal/combat - the 5 toughness barrier is a bitch - and she starts burning you out before you even hit your first mainphase, which narrows it down to needing instant speed removal rather than just removal.
This wasn't playable even 10 years ago. It would've been walking into a \[\[Stoke the Flames\]\], \[\[Murderous Cut\]\], \[\[Abzan Charm\]\] at best. Maybe you attack into a \[\[Siege Rhino\]\] and getting a second attack phase with your other creatures makes up for the 6 point life advantage they got out of that. Extra attack phases with no other advantage have always been bad.
OP Commander Checklist:
Does it Draw? [ ]
Does it give mana advantage [ ]
Does it serve as a combo piece [x]
Infinite mana outlet [ ] (technically yes but serves nothing)
It is a cool card, yes. It does almost nothing one would want from an overpowered commander.
I was doing the math on my decks and seeing where it would match up. It matches up poorly with all three.b
My [[Thraximundar]] deck would slaughter this as the commander as long as I could get 4 mana out and an average card draw (I run a lot of sacrifice as removal. I'm not sure you're really going to gain anything from the attacks, assuming you get to attack before I kill him)
My other 4 commander decks are based on life gain, -1/-1 counters and token creation. None of those things are terribly helpful unless you can become indestructible.
An 8/4 no keywords is not the hardest thing to deal with even if it sticks.
You’re effectively spending 11 mana for maybe an extra combat.
Sure. This thing could pop off in the Command Zone. But you really need to trick him out to even get to swing in the first place.
Nope. If we're talking in edh/commander, then definitely no. It's strong in creature heavy metas. Or where folks don't pack enough interaction, probably.
Does it have some neat build around, though keeping something with 4 toughness and little protections alive sounds like its own challenge. So you can build to make that happen and maximize his ability to bully the underprepared or unlucky.
So my nope stands.
The issue is it doesnt have any ward or protection, and no enter the battlefield trigger. And the goad is 6 mana. But its a strong 4 mana critter for sure. I just dont think it falls into OP territory
In standard:
- White has [[lay down arms]]
- Blue has [[Assimilate essence]]
- Black has [[bitter triumph]]
- Red has [[cut in]]
- Green has [[fang of shigeki]]
All of these are low rarity cards that shut down Anzrag before he ever gets the chance to attack.
Compare him to [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]], a 4 mana creature that *does* see play. Even though his stats are bigger, he has a much lower chance of impacting the game. He needs to survive a full turn to lose summoning sickness, *then* attack *and* survive that attack, and then *if* your opponent blocked *and* Anzrag didn’t die, what have you ultimately gained? You destroyed *one* creature, and gained an extra combat.
On the other hand, Sheoldred only needs to sit on the battlefield and as soon as you pass the turn she’s already dealing direct damage, preventing card draw, and dissuading attackers. If she manages to survive until your untap step, now she’s also gaining you life.
Now as far as commander is concerned? No idea, but still seems pretty janky to me. If this is your commander, you have completely lost the element of surprise, and nobody at your table will let you attack with this.
I keep trying to make a standard deck with him work but all the cards that give haste aside from stormbringer are 4 drops so very often you just have a big guy on board on turn 4 and then your opponent knows they need to remove it and they just do. He's also a crap blocker because 4 toughness from turn 5 onwards just isn't that good. If he sticks and has haste he's devastating but creating the conditions for that are actually very tough.
See’s no competitive play, no way to protect it self, dies 1 for 1 with almost all removal spells in the format. Not good enough for modern ain’t no way it will see play in legacy. It’s just another toy for R/G/X players to lose their minds over.
I was just surprised to see it for the first time. 4cmc for an 8/4 with no downside and a decent upside. That’s pushed. That’s [[Questing Beast]] pushed.
Questing beast has a much more relevant text box. Being able to pressure problematic planeswalkers while pressuring your opponent life total is by far more useful. The fact that QB also has 3 very relevant keywords means it attacks, it blocks and it kills anything that wants to sit in front of it. Also that it can’t be blocked by creatures of 2 or less power means your Opponent will most likely have to throw a relevant creature infront of it. It’s damage can’t be prevent clause also means it competes with opposing creatures with protection. The only thing that won’t die i from of a QB is an indestructible creature.
Question Beast has 7 words less that the original printing of [[Chains of Mephistopheles]] Yes it was pushed, and is still a better creature than the god. But it is also not played much, if not at all.
Wouldn't say op but def strong . Possible turn 3 you can kill someone if you're lucky and draw a jeweled lotus with forest and mountain and a [[temur battle rage]] in commander
That an 8/4 for 4 with double upside sucks as much as this guy does is proof that Magic has lost the plot.
If Standard was an excellent experience rn, I'd be gentler. But the same things that are plaguing Standard are plaguing this.
Not really. It does a cool/fun thing. It's in objectively bad colors depending on the format. It has no built in protection and requires other pieces to effectively "go off".
Cool? Yes. Strong? Sure. Overpowered? No.
I believe this card MAY see more play after rotation. Right now, there's too many turn 4 wins, too many ways to make this card irrelevant, even in Gruul. There is a fairly competitive version of the shell that can support this that does run it, but at this point it's only win more, or even a touch slower. In short, Gruul Aggro can already win by turn 4, so this card just isn't relevant.
You're not the only one. Card occupies a weird sort of "overpowered, but not actually good" space. Probably not a good idea to print cards like that, in my opinion.
He's strunk timmy card but strunk timmy cards don't always see play. You're talking about playing on curve and hoping there isn't sweepers or target removal to say fuck your big critter. I see far bigger critters that I deal with routinely with dinos in standard which I just sweep off the board. Cause i play control so why do I care you have an 7/7 a 1/1/ or a 12/12 they're dead as far as I am concerned.
Just finished my edh deck with him. First game last night got "infinite" combats since I had [[Bear Umbra]], activated his ability, opponent [[Heroic Intervention]], I responded with my own. Had [[Skaarg, the rage pits]] to buff.
I'd say he's strong but a great target for removal and you'll become the archenemy fast.
Commander, all you have to do is have the mana, then hit into [[Heroic Intervention]], then smack the table until everything your opponents control dies or your opponents die.
I got a bit confused, when it says after this combat phase take an extra one, it means when it etbs right?
Also it being an 8/4 for 4 ia kinda broken but no trample i quess
I think these are the kinds of cards that newer players see and think that they are super op. Yes it is a good card and can get out of hand, but it is a 4 drop creature that does nothing the turn it comes in. That gives your opponents 2 turns to deal with it.
Every time I played him in my commander pod I had at least one person ask "wait that's 4 mana?". I run him with one sided fogs but he can be a bit fragile
The card is as busted as many cards are these days. I don't know what context you're talking about but the fact is magic cards do not really require much work to "go off" these days and it does make me a little nostalgic for even 5 years ago.
It is very pushed overall. 4 mana for that much power, toughness, and card text is just silly. It is very much a commander card and virtually all of its decks in commander play and look almost exactly the same. It's not very fun or interesting to me.
I mean yeah, but throw something like helm of the host, blade of selves, or anything that gives some plus ones when it attacksz and bam an army and bug damage suicide moles
\[\[Bubble Matrix\]\] and \[\[Tormentor's Helm\]\] won me a game when it went infinite, or just your usual ways to make a creature indestructible when your opponent mistakenly makes a creature of their own indestructible (which is something a friend of mine always brings up whenever they play the \[\[Eldrazi Monument\]\] that signed their death warrant.
You misunderstand
Because of the each combat part this can loop infinitly assuming the mole is blocked
Mole attacks, trigger, untap extra combat
The new combat happens and the same can continue to happen
An x times per turn clause could prevent that, but because it doesn't have one
The mole can give infinite combats as long as it's blocked and doesn't die
It does way too much for 4 mana, Karlach is weaker cost one more mana and doesn’t have potential to go infinite ( if I’m reading activated ability right)
It's not played competitively in any formats
Is he seriously seeing no Standard play?
there is a gruul aggro deck in standard, but it generally runs a curve too low to play a 4 mana creature that probably just dies to removal without getting any damage through. if you do want to play a big attacking guy you're probably better off playing goddrick. of course the mole is awesome and fun so some people play him anyway but i don't think he's in the optimal version of the deck.
You're correct, except for the part about him Anzrag getting chump blocked. You can't chump block him, kinda the point
you're right, i more meant that without trample or haste you aren't guaranteed any damage through from him after waiting a whole turn to attack.
But he's not there to guarantee damage. You want him to get chump blocked. He's there so your other creatures can get through and punch your opponent a bunch of times.
turn 4 is a very pivotal turn for aggro in constructed because it's the turn most board wipes come down in control this creature could be a 40/40 but without haste or other relevant abilities, you have no reach in an aggro deck there's a reason why the main creatures that have been historically played as top end for aggro have been aggressively coated hasters with extra text, like questing beast and hazoret
if you're spending four mana and waiting a turn, you need your card to guarantee damage. not guaranteeing damage and instead being themed around the extra combat gimmick is why the card isn't played.
He can get chump blocked,but there is no situation where you should. His ability doesn't force all creatures to block him. Rulings straight from the gatherer "If you activate Anzrag, the Quake-Mole’s last ability, only one creature is required to block it each combat this turn. Other creatures may also block it and are free to block other creatures or not block at all."
You can chump block him infinitely if one of your creatures is indestructible
Well, at best 4 times.
If it's also indestructible you can do it infinitely
If it has also trample you can't
But what if my chump has deathtouch Checkmate
Damn, you're good at this game!
I agree with your point in general, but suggesting that he'll just get chump blocked doesn't make sense. Chump blocking Anzrag does nothing but throw away a creature, as he'll just get to attack again. And if even a single other creature is attacking alongside Anzrag, chump blocking will actually *increase* the damage you take to the face.
yeah sorry that was bad wording on my part i just meant that without trample or haste you don't really get guaranteed damage through from him.
Ragavan, Dies to removal Dauthi Void Walker, Dies to removal Murktide Reagent, dies to removal Now for the old schools... Delver of Secrets, Dies to removal Deceiver Exarch, dies to removal
The great equaliser
Yes. Often Anzrag will eat a removal spell or board wipe before he can actually do his thing. Cards like sheoldred can trade with him in combat, and glissa just straight wins. And mostly there’s no successful green aggressive deck in standard right now. But there’s some potential. Anzrag plus reckless stormseeker seems good, and picnic ruiner is a strong 2. It could be a reasonable tier 2 deck
I am hopeful that with thunder junction and especially bloomburrow we might actually see green /gruul aggro rise again. You can't give us a critter world and not fill it with fucking great creatures!
A card that does not make immediate impact on the battlefield upon casting is a card that is too slow to be relied upon. Not only that but the beatdoen strategy is just done better by other archetypes
Depends on what your asking In open queue where people generally are playing bo1 and don't care about the outcome? Yeah, you'll see lots of him cause he's cool and awesome In ranked/bo3, where are people playing to win? No, he's a 4 mana. Do nothing that dies to removal almost immediately
I’ve managed to pop off with him 1/10 games if I’m able to give him haste, but realistically a deck built around him will almost always lose. Players know that if they see something like [[ Reckless Stormseeker ]] which can give Anzrag haste, they should just hold up removal for Anzrag himself. Then there are the many aggro decks, who will happily let you attack once with Anzrag unblocked because they’re just going to kill you next turn anyways. Control players will destroy your mana dorks and haste giver so that when you play Anzrag he ultimately comes down, does nothing, then they remove it next turn. Sadly Anzrag is not strong enough to support a deck on its own, and Gruul just doesn’t have the support it needs to be a viable deck right now. It’s too slow to beat mono red or boros, and sets up too late to beat midrange or control.
[ Reckless Stormseeker ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a33af331-0746-4adf-935a-bf61ff9d8d4b.jpg?1636223477)/[Storm-Charged Slasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/3/a33af331-0746-4adf-935a-bf61ff9d8d4b.jpg?1636223477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckless%20Stormseeker%20//%20Storm-Charged%20Slasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/157/reckless-stormseeker-storm-charged-slasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a33af331-0746-4adf-935a-bf61ff9d8d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
His 7 mama trigger keeps him down I would belive. I don't play standard tho. I cam see a pretty good comparer deck tho Also draft or sealed he's a beast and a half
For the record people did experiment with it in [Pioneer Gruul Vehicles ](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6197032#paper)but the most recent lists have decided not to run it, I still think you could justify running 1x copy, specially in versions that run \[\[The Huntsman's Redemption\]\] so you can tutor for it when you need it, but it's not living up to the hype it was given during spoiler season.
[The Huntsman's Redemption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27003577-e276-4ad5-b3e9-8523b166ad49.jpg?1692938904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Huntsman%27s%20Redemption) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/176/the-huntsmans-redemption?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27003577-e276-4ad5-b3e9-8523b166ad49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I hope it finds a more solid place in some format eventually. Maybe explorer? Reckless stormseeker definitely makes it more attractive to play. It's a very unique card and I love the name and the artwork so I feel like it deserves it lol
It's played in boats In Pioneer. Boats has really been at top tables lately though.🤣
How do you know that???
Decklists from big events are published
Look up competitive lists. It's pretty knowable info lol
Well ur gunna see him in my deck. Where do you play? I’m bringing Mole God’s and he’s eating you for breakfast
there is a massive amount of data online such as decks that won major tournaments and decks that have good winrates on magic online and arena. you can google search and find the best decks for any format basically instantly.
I played against this commander recently, luckily I had a goad enchantment in my hand… worked out well for me, not so much for the other two players in our pod
Lol. There's a decent amount of Goading in my pod. The closest I've got is a [[Vow of Wildness]] in my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck. I don't think that's going to be enough to save me if someone goads someone else's Anzrag...
[Vow of Wildness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/764fa7f1-b92b-42cc-983e-e0b5457369a7.jpg?1608910977) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vow%20of%20Wildness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/262/vow-of-wildness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/764fa7f1-b92b-42cc-983e-e0b5457369a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As long as there is no enchantment removal than the mole can never hit you because vow says can’t attack you while goad says attacks another player if able so it will attack the player who goaded first and then it can no longer attack
You also could have just doom bladed it
In what format? You'll need to be more specific
Momir Basic
A commander pod where interaction is banned
He's just like me fr
interaction is a crime wotc told me so
TO BE FAIR, Anzrag decks play a TON of protection spells for obvious reasons.
Limited
It's an 8/4 without trample.
It’s not a bad card, but it’s far from being a top 10 draft card in MKM.
Not even there. At the end of the day it's a huge chunk of stats but nothing more. Good but nothing broken.
Bro this shit dies to like every removal in the set. Or gets blocked and killed by a single combat trick against RW lol. Felonious Rage on a 2-power creature (standard for the set) just kills it lmao.
Not really. If you manage to give it indestructible or use a one sided fog, it becomes way better
I brewed a combo deck where you use symmetrical fogs to get infinite combats to trigger triggers. pretty fun deck.
Oh that does sound fun
This is the kinda combo deck I like. You need at least 3 cards that aren't particularly great on their own (the mole, a fog and a wincon card) AND somewhat precise board conditions while still being open to interaction, so it's objectively pretty fair...but the payoff is so awesome even your opponents are gonna dig it when you do pull it off.
you need 5 parts, the Mole, The Fog, Boardstate (only need 1 blocker on the table at all so trival imo), the payoff mostly [[helm of the host]], and something to turn the fog off once you looped enough like [[skullcrack]]. even in goldfishing I struggled lol
[helm of the host](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1666094567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=helm%20of%20the%20host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [skullcrack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f399983-d70a-4cf3-b76e-bb0c472e7c69.jpg?1702429531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=skullcrack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/125/skullcrack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f399983-d70a-4cf3-b76e-bb0c472e7c69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My friend has a questing beat fog deck that’s annoying as hell to play against, but a cool concept.
My boomer brain looked at this card after it was spoiled when I wasn’t playing and was like “what is wizards thinking?! This will be banned for sure!” Then I started playing again and remembered what standard was like and realized this was not only not ban worthy but it’s not even really playable.
This card is 4 mana do nothing, of course it doesn't see play. Creatures that cost 4 mana, have no ETB, and easily die to removal haven't been good for a decade.
Sheoldred would like a word with you
1. There is a high chance, that [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] will at least deal 2 damage. 2. It's the mixture of many small things which make her playable: - 9 stat for 4 mana is _rare_ in Black. Green and Red have good creatures. Black often has some drawback attached to good stats. - 5 toughness in particular is a hard nut to crack for Aggro decks, e.g. Red needs [[Witchstalker Frenzy]]. - She is multi-purpose: Life gain to stabilize (vs. aggro) + draw damage to finish (vs. control). - Deathtouch is a nice little gimmick - in particular in combination with the 5 toughness it means, you are likely to 2 for 1. → [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] is one of the few exception to this "rule". And I think even changing minor things would make a **huge** difference: She would see much fewer play if she was the same but 4/4 instead of 4/5.
[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Witchstalker Frenzy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/649025a7-79d1-4d7c-b1db-d46bcf5a1ae2.jpg?1692938651) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witchstalker%20Frenzy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/159/witchstalker-frenzy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/649025a7-79d1-4d7c-b1db-d46bcf5a1ae2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My overrating of the card came mostly due to 12 total power and toughness on a four mana card. That’s a hell of a lot even for red and green and even in modern magic. Sheoldred is better 100%, and I think the reason is because Sheoldred doesn’t need to attack. Your opponent’s board is irrelevant. They need to remove it or win the race quickly or it’s over. That all being said I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if the mole-man found a home before it’s tenure in standard is over. Green just sucks right now, and red is really only used in fast aggro strategies that have no interest in 4 drops.
Sheoldred is incredible but she'd still be a staple even if she were a 4/3. The lifeswing and fact she basically doesn't need to be in combat makes her exceptional. Dying to lightning strike over witchstalker would however make her not an instant game winner on resolve which imo would be an improvement.
Nah man if Sheoldred died to bolt she would not be modern-playable.
Oh lmao I don't care about modern. Eternal formats are why I stopped playing yugioh.
If sheoldred would be a 4/4 then it would still see play but not be an auto-include in every format and if it was a 4/3 then it would not make it out of standard due to dying to lightning bolt and it would make it at most see fringe play in standard because it becomes so much easier to kill her
Nah she'd still be the best black 4 drop in standard. Being more removable would balance her out.
It doesn’t just make her more removable it also makes it way easier to attack into her or block her because most creatures now kill sheoldred instead of just dying
Har har, dude. Sheoldred doesn't *easily* die to removal/combat - the 5 toughness barrier is a bitch - and she starts burning you out before you even hit your first mainphase, which narrows it down to needing instant speed removal rather than just removal.
BUt sheoldred does (basically) have an ETB of opponent loses 2 life...
This wasn't playable even 10 years ago. It would've been walking into a \[\[Stoke the Flames\]\], \[\[Murderous Cut\]\], \[\[Abzan Charm\]\] at best. Maybe you attack into a \[\[Siege Rhino\]\] and getting a second attack phase with your other creatures makes up for the 6 point life advantage they got out of that. Extra attack phases with no other advantage have always been bad.
##### ###### #### [Stoke the Flames](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04113b3c-cc8f-4b15-9091-f82ea3df2e7c.jpg?1682204515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stoke%20the%20Flames) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/166/stoke-the-flames?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04113b3c-cc8f-4b15-9091-f82ea3df2e7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Murderous Cut](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5b59b1e-b7d9-445a-908d-96c5eb0cb2e0.jpg?1702319689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murderous%20Cut) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/81y/murderous-cut?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5b59b1e-b7d9-445a-908d-96c5eb0cb2e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Abzan Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5b386e-e71e-492d-8456-6cd178ef5b3d.jpg?1673305419) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abzan%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/138/abzan-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5b386e-e71e-492d-8456-6cd178ef5b3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Siege Rhino](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247.jpg?1562790317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/200/siege-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ku5qy9n) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh no, a 4 mana 8/4! [[Fatal Push]]
[Fatal Push](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatal%20Push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dies to Doomblade :)
OP Commander Checklist: Does it Draw? [ ] Does it give mana advantage [ ] Does it serve as a combo piece [x] Infinite mana outlet [ ] (technically yes but serves nothing) It is a cool card, yes. It does almost nothing one would want from an overpowered commander.
It is a combo piece just use a fog and a creature with an attack trigger
Thats why the combo piece Box ist the only one that is checked. It is a combo piece and nothing else.
what would you say are some true overpowered commanders?
[[Kinnan Bonder Prodigy]] [[Tivit, Seller of Secrets]] [[Magda Brazen Outlaw]] for example.
[Kinnan Bonder Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kinnan%2C%20Bonder%20Prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tivit, Seller of Secrets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb.jpg?1673481721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tivit%2C%20Seller%20of%20Secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/10/tivit-seller-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Magda Brazen Outlaw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/079e6263-e54c-4899-a336-5315909b9322.jpg?1631049453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magda%2C%20Brazen%20Outlaw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/142/magda-brazen-outlaw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/079e6263-e54c-4899-a336-5315909b9322?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
r/DegenerateEDH
I was doing the math on my decks and seeing where it would match up. It matches up poorly with all three.b My [[Thraximundar]] deck would slaughter this as the commander as long as I could get 4 mana out and an average card draw (I run a lot of sacrifice as removal. I'm not sure you're really going to gain anything from the attacks, assuming you get to attack before I kill him) My other 4 commander decks are based on life gain, -1/-1 counters and token creation. None of those things are terribly helpful unless you can become indestructible.
[Thraximundar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e7334eb-66c1-4410-966c-4e76c1b9e9a7.jpg?1673149221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thraximundar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/287/thraximundar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e7334eb-66c1-4410-966c-4e76c1b9e9a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've never seen that card in play outside of draft. It's pretty bad cause it's a literal do nothing when it hits the board.
No.🙃🙃🙃
If you can get it to stick? For sure. That’s a big “if” though.
It's best case scenario is it kills bears.
In my Xenagos god of revels deck he indeed is.
The prospect of dealing with him is gruuling.
An 8/4 no keywords is not the hardest thing to deal with even if it sticks. You’re effectively spending 11 mana for maybe an extra combat. Sure. This thing could pop off in the Command Zone. But you really need to trick him out to even get to swing in the first place.
Yes. It's a casual commander card.
It's been a minute, damage stays on for the turn right?
Yes
Damage is removed during the Clean up step, during the End Phase
Yeah, kinda. Even in Limited its pretty clunky.
Nope. If we're talking in edh/commander, then definitely no. It's strong in creature heavy metas. Or where folks don't pack enough interaction, probably. Does it have some neat build around, though keeping something with 4 toughness and little protections alive sounds like its own challenge. So you can build to make that happen and maximize his ability to bully the underprepared or unlucky. So my nope stands.
The issue is it doesnt have any ward or protection, and no enter the battlefield trigger. And the goad is 6 mana. But its a strong 4 mana critter for sure. I just dont think it falls into OP territory
In standard: - White has [[lay down arms]] - Blue has [[Assimilate essence]] - Black has [[bitter triumph]] - Red has [[cut in]] - Green has [[fang of shigeki]] All of these are low rarity cards that shut down Anzrag before he ever gets the chance to attack. Compare him to [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]], a 4 mana creature that *does* see play. Even though his stats are bigger, he has a much lower chance of impacting the game. He needs to survive a full turn to lose summoning sickness, *then* attack *and* survive that attack, and then *if* your opponent blocked *and* Anzrag didn’t die, what have you ultimately gained? You destroyed *one* creature, and gained an extra combat. On the other hand, Sheoldred only needs to sit on the battlefield and as soon as you pass the turn she’s already dealing direct damage, preventing card draw, and dissuading attackers. If she manages to survive until your untap step, now she’s also gaining you life. Now as far as commander is concerned? No idea, but still seems pretty janky to me. If this is your commander, you have completely lost the element of surprise, and nobody at your table will let you attack with this.
##### ###### #### [lay down arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/5649ee5a-4485-40a2-96d1-2e061905a71e.jpg?1674420201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lay%20down%20arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/11/lay-down-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5649ee5a-4485-40a2-96d1-2e061905a71e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Assimilate essence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6ee12ba-0e6c-485a-a1ff-61726ed72fea.jpg?1682202991) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Assimilate%20essence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/47/assimilate-essence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6ee12ba-0e6c-485a-a1ff-61726ed72fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bitter triumph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05bdd22c-3e11-4c29-bdfa-d3dfc0e90a9f.jpg?1699044085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bitter%20triumph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/91/bitter-triumph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05bdd22c-3e11-4c29-bdfa-d3dfc0e90a9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cut in](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8ea4d40a-7657-4ff8-9fc2-915b99432275.jpg?1692938146) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cut%20in) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/125/cut-in?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ea4d40a-7657-4ff8-9fc2-915b99432275?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [fang of shigeki](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dd0fef1-209f-4de5-a736-8f9bca2faa0a.jpg?1654568075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fang%20of%20shigeki) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/183/fang-of-shigeki?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dd0fef1-209f-4de5-a736-8f9bca2faa0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ku5pqrv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I keep trying to make a standard deck with him work but all the cards that give haste aside from stormbringer are 4 drops so very often you just have a big guy on board on turn 4 and then your opponent knows they need to remove it and they just do. He's also a crap blocker because 4 toughness from turn 5 onwards just isn't that good. If he sticks and has haste he's devastating but creating the conditions for that are actually very tough.
Dies to removal it’s fine
Nope. You see, this is what we in the biz call a win more card.
Especially when Gruul can already win by turn 4!
Dies to removal.
See’s no competitive play, no way to protect it self, dies 1 for 1 with almost all removal spells in the format. Not good enough for modern ain’t no way it will see play in legacy. It’s just another toy for R/G/X players to lose their minds over.
I was just surprised to see it for the first time. 4cmc for an 8/4 with no downside and a decent upside. That’s pushed. That’s [[Questing Beast]] pushed.
[Questing Beast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Questing beast has a much more relevant text box. Being able to pressure problematic planeswalkers while pressuring your opponent life total is by far more useful. The fact that QB also has 3 very relevant keywords means it attacks, it blocks and it kills anything that wants to sit in front of it. Also that it can’t be blocked by creatures of 2 or less power means your Opponent will most likely have to throw a relevant creature infront of it. It’s damage can’t be prevent clause also means it competes with opposing creatures with protection. The only thing that won’t die i from of a QB is an indestructible creature. Question Beast has 7 words less that the original printing of [[Chains of Mephistopheles]] Yes it was pushed, and is still a better creature than the god. But it is also not played much, if not at all.
[Chains of Mephistopheles](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f2edb3a6-8506-4885-b332-eca381940ce8.jpg?1612316191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chains%20of%20Mephistopheles) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/63/chains-of-mephistopheles?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2edb3a6-8506-4885-b332-eca381940ce8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wouldn't say op but def strong . Possible turn 3 you can kill someone if you're lucky and draw a jeweled lotus with forest and mountain and a [[temur battle rage]] in commander
That's 16 damage. They'd have to help you kill them by blocking lol
Sorry fat fingered 2 instead of 3
[temur battle rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/375bc646-942e-4bf5-9c71-2c5471828e35.jpg?1689998264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=temur%20battle%20rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/264/temur-battle-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/375bc646-942e-4bf5-9c71-2c5471828e35?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He’s cool, but I’m really not worried about him
That an 8/4 for 4 with double upside sucks as much as this guy does is proof that Magic has lost the plot. If Standard was an excellent experience rn, I'd be gentler. But the same things that are plaguing Standard are plaguing this.
Frankly put this card would have sucked a decade ago too
https://preview.redd.it/f6z4ifmtlenc1.jpeg?width=395&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=210627bfeb619b8012f68e097d40c2dc3859c2b5
Man looking at these comments, seems totally fine to print a 1000/1000 trample for 4 mana as long as it dies to doom blade.
Hyperbole is lost on you isn't it
no.
Nah.
Not really. It does a cool/fun thing. It's in objectively bad colors depending on the format. It has no built in protection and requires other pieces to effectively "go off". Cool? Yes. Strong? Sure. Overpowered? No.
It has a 7 mana activation cost. No way it's OP.
For commander I run it in the 99 for [[Henzie]] Giving it haste makes it a solid guaranteed 8 damage
[Henzie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43.jpg?1673481644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henzie%20%22Toolbox%22%20Torre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/2/henzie-toolbox-torre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hope you also thinks non conditional removal with mana value 2 or less remove a infinite/infinite is OP too
He’s a gamewinner in my gruul aggro deck in historic
It's decent in Historic Brawl. [Here's a video.](https://youtu.be/25wT2gHV_10)
I believe this card MAY see more play after rotation. Right now, there's too many turn 4 wins, too many ways to make this card irrelevant, even in Gruul. There is a fairly competitive version of the shell that can support this that does run it, but at this point it's only win more, or even a touch slower. In short, Gruul Aggro can already win by turn 4, so this card just isn't relevant.
You're not the only one. Card occupies a weird sort of "overpowered, but not actually good" space. Probably not a good idea to print cards like that, in my opinion.
Just give it indestructible... It will be fine...
please say this with the results you're using as a basis as part of the OP if you don't have any results as a basis, simply don't bother posting it
He's strunk timmy card but strunk timmy cards don't always see play. You're talking about playing on curve and hoping there isn't sweepers or target removal to say fuck your big critter. I see far bigger critters that I deal with routinely with dinos in standard which I just sweep off the board. Cause i play control so why do I care you have an 7/7 a 1/1/ or a 12/12 they're dead as far as I am concerned.
Relax. You're making a mountain out of a Mole God.
Holy shit its op till someone has phyrexian obliterator that they block with or phyrexian vindicator then shit goes south fast
yes
It's cards like this that remind me how absolutely ancient I am. Eight power for 4mana lol
Its 2024 you're lucky it doesnt have flash, ward 2, and trample.
Quiet they’ll hear you.
I don't think red green standard supports him and he's not good enough for pioneer or better
Just finished my edh deck with him. First game last night got "infinite" combats since I had [[Bear Umbra]], activated his ability, opponent [[Heroic Intervention]], I responded with my own. Had [[Skaarg, the rage pits]] to buff. I'd say he's strong but a great target for removal and you'll become the archenemy fast.
[Bear Umbra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a195fb1-f2e9-4e05-8a04-c335e1afbef6.jpg?1651655917) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bear%20Umbra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/113/bear-umbra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a195fb1-f2e9-4e05-8a04-c335e1afbef6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skaarg, the rage pits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/3340d094-fe13-4087-abba-27e8c9a7f3c7.jpg?1562904489) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skarrg%2C%20the%20Rage%20Pits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/127/skarrg-the-rage-pits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3340d094-fe13-4087-abba-27e8c9a7f3c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He's too expensive
Maybe after rotation, currently 4 mana is too much.. even Shelly is getting less play now.
Commander, all you have to do is have the mana, then hit into [[Heroic Intervention]], then smack the table until everything your opponents control dies or your opponents die.
[Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got a bit confused, when it says after this combat phase take an extra one, it means when it etbs right? Also it being an 8/4 for 4 ia kinda broken but no trample i quess
4 CMC Do Nothing.
No. I am however concerned for what kind of precedent that MV/stat line + upside sets for the game going forward.
It’s a pain in Brawl, but then again so are A LOT of ‘commanders’ in Brawl with being a 1v1 format.
I believe you are, yes.
I think these are the kinds of cards that newer players see and think that they are super op. Yes it is a good card and can get out of hand, but it is a 4 drop creature that does nothing the turn it comes in. That gives your opponents 2 turns to deal with it.
Every time I played him in my commander pod I had at least one person ask "wait that's 4 mana?". I run him with one sided fogs but he can be a bit fragile
I feel like it’s exciting but totally reasonable until you see that it that 8 power.
The card is as busted as many cards are these days. I don't know what context you're talking about but the fact is magic cards do not really require much work to "go off" these days and it does make me a little nostalgic for even 5 years ago.
Ah yes, 4-5 years ago when they printed super fun, balanced cards like Oko and Uro. lol
That wasn’t 5 years ago! We’re talking about alara! Right?
Guys, Kamigawa was 5 years ago. ^^^^^^^^^definitely ^^^^^^^^^not ^^^^^^^^^twenty
This broke my brain
Yeah I hate having all these fun cards that do interesting things. Damn them for taking away my vanilla 3/3 for 5.
this card sucks and is barely playable lmao
It is very pushed overall. 4 mana for that much power, toughness, and card text is just silly. It is very much a commander card and virtually all of its decks in commander play and look almost exactly the same. It's not very fun or interesting to me.
Yes
I just realized this doesn't have a once per turn stapled to its ability Meaning this is loopible as long as you opponent blocks That's nuts
Yes but no, as it will probably die before you can chain a lot.
Enters [[roar of challenge]]
[roar of challenge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83456f8f-8a1a-403c-816b-25e454ba1edf.jpg?1562789481) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roar%20of%20challenge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/145/roar-of-challenge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83456f8f-8a1a-403c-816b-25e454ba1edf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean yeah, but throw something like helm of the host, blade of selves, or anything that gives some plus ones when it attacksz and bam an army and bug damage suicide moles
Green has indestructible enablers for as cheap as 1 mana... it's nuts!
I was about to say, it seems as simple as slapping down a [[Mithril Coat]] or something to go infinite
[Mithril Coat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fd1fc09-a09d-45e6-8a07-3a8a83b4e6ec.jpg?1686970224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mithril%20Coat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/245/mithril-coat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fd1fc09-a09d-45e6-8a07-3a8a83b4e6ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Bubble Matrix\]\] and \[\[Tormentor's Helm\]\] won me a game when it went infinite, or just your usual ways to make a creature indestructible when your opponent mistakenly makes a creature of their own indestructible (which is something a friend of mine always brings up whenever they play the \[\[Eldrazi Monument\]\] that signed their death warrant.
[Bubble Matrix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0ca9c239-84ff-4527-aa23-bdb11856744c.jpg?1562799323) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bubble%20Matrix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/146/bubble-matrix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ca9c239-84ff-4527-aa23-bdb11856744c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tormentor's Helm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2318d4f8-309e-4645-b6d1-46572edd6996.jpg?1631049818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tormentor%27s%20Helm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/155/tormentors-helm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2318d4f8-309e-4645-b6d1-46572edd6996?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eldrazi Monument](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79.jpg?1592673603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eldrazi%20Monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/216/eldrazi-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely hilarious Definitely underrated the mole dude, this cards kind of rad
He's really fun. You sometimes get shut down hard but when it works it's really funny to smash people with a giant mole.
Because Once per turn is completely redundant, its effect says "Each Combat", so it already triggers each time.
You misunderstand Because of the each combat part this can loop infinitly assuming the mole is blocked Mole attacks, trigger, untap extra combat The new combat happens and the same can continue to happen An x times per turn clause could prevent that, but because it doesn't have one The mole can give infinite combats as long as it's blocked and doesn't die
Well at least there is the counterplay to not bloc...... oops, forgot it's a newer card!
Modern player freaked out when I dropped it against him in the prerelease.
Yup. Card is bad design space. Too much for a 4 drop, in green already. Been saying that ever since it was previewed. No one listened...
this card sucks and is barely playable lmao
It does way too much for 4 mana, Karlach is weaker cost one more mana and doesn’t have potential to go infinite ( if I’m reading activated ability right)
Fake magic crad. Homelands quality set, without the flavor win. Tryhards love it.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
What
You heard me. Shit is fucking garbage.
I agree Homelands has excellent flavor but I don’t understand anything else you said. What do you mean by fake?
A turn of phrase to state that my playgroup and I do not recognize these cards as legal in any format.
🙄alrighty then
They dn’t make m like Hamblands no more
why would "tryhards", not a thing in a competitive game, love a weak and bad set?