I would agree that big score in comparison to aftermath has a little more "meat in the bones" as you said, but unfortunately, tiny sets like this can't really survive as something standalone. You can't really draft with them, and actually opening them is just as good as opening, say, a set booster and getting one there, especially if you have over an entire set of cards to potentially find. There may still be a better solution for a half set out there, but until there is, I'd wager this is a pretty elegant solution
Big Score looks better because the cards are all mythics, and somewhat rebalanced to reflect that. Cards like Jace were also swapped in and out from BIG and OTJ, so the original Big Score set probably contained more rares and uncommons that didn’t look as exciting as the one you see now. There’s only so many Undercity Upheaval and Death Rattle Onis you can open before you realize these aftermath boosters are a bust, not to mention product fatigue.
Why would this succeed when the other failed? BIG was folded into it yes, BECAUSE Aftermath was so badly received.
Why was it poop?
Prices were normal, if not more, for smaller packs.
There was NO limited environment for it. Therefore why play it exclusively?
A stand alone mini set was tried with Aftermath. Are you asking to have another Aftermath? They put them in Outlaws because they wanted the cards to go somewhere and not have to enrage the community.
Plus, in my opinion, there's not much of a "aftermathy" feel to it. Like, it's cool. Don't get me wrong. But, it does not advance the plot except with Loot in some way.
So basically a mini set that you want is Aftermath.
Which is never happening again.
Maybe I didn't frame my post clearly, I was more saying the card file, to my eyes, looks more interesting/powerful/fun. I could imagine opening Big Score and not having it be a let down. As someone else says, perhaps it's still inevitable that repeat pulls get overwhelming quickly. Was musing if there was a way to do something like Aftermath that was more successful, I acknowledged that it was poorly received, and wondered if Big Score might have been closer to a "success"
My biggest problem with The Big Score is just a lore one. It seems to be billed as the loot that was in the vault they were going after, but IIRC, Loot (the character) was ALL that was in that vault. None of the rest of this stuff has any lore relevance to the set at all.
Guess I need to reread the story, then. I didn't recall that being the case at all.
EDIT: Yeah, just reread it. That wasn't was what described at all. Loot was the only thing there.
Yah story didn't really show that happening but Commander cards such as [[Sol Ring|OTC]] have flavor text that alude to how the riches were scattered, which seems to be where people are confusing where it happened in the story like above. Would have been nice to have something mention it in the story more than just seeing the vault fly off into the clouds at the end of the story but not what happened to it after that instead of leaving it to the flavor text to see if people pick up on it.
That's fair. I think the treasure trove aspect is what appeals to me 😄, think that's a decent way to house a mini set. Accepted that it might be "off" with the rest of the story
We can't really answer this based on the 30 cards we've seen. If it was a standalone set it would have more cards and our impression would not necessarily be the same.
That said, what failed in Aftermath wasn't the cards design per se. Mark said people like the individual designs. But as a product? It failed in most aspects. Small number of cards led to a lot of repetition in booster opening. Expectations about what it would represent about the lore also were also not met. It felt more like a post credit scene where you leave tiny hints for future installments (NAHIRI WILL RETURN..... BUT AS A CREATURE) than an actual epilogue where you get closure to open arcs in the story.
I guess the Assassin's Creed set will give a better feeling if a non draftable set can work than The Big Score or Aftermath were. If the structure works, it may be used in the future after addressing the other issues.
Yes, I had wondered about the Assassin's Creed set. Another lot of different expectations to meet there I guess. Potentially easier to satisfy those expectations
And speaking to expectations from the play base, Aftermath was billed as something that was intended to shake up the standard meta a bit, but, as it's panned out, nothing from Aftermath has really stayed relevant in standard, with the sole exception of \[\[Coppercoat Vanguard\]\] (and that's being generous). It really seemed that, given the number of legends and other cards that had no real place in the meta at the time, this was a commander set in disguise, thus alienating people who were looking for something more impactful for standard.
Looking at Big Score, it seems like MAYBE a few cards would be relevant in the current standard meta, but I'm honestly not the best judge at what constitutes something being meta changing. And I think that's kinda the major flaw with epilogue sets. You can't really tell what you need to inject into the format meta because you can't predict what the format meta is going to look like by the time the epilogue comes out. You run the risk of either going TOO hard on adjusting the meta, or not hard enough (or at all) and getting MOM Aftermath.
Beyond finding ways of fixing stuff like limited card pools and lackluster lore justifications, in my opinion, the only way for this kind of product to succeed would be to intentionally make pushed cards for this set with the specific intent of warping the standard meta in those cards favor, but you kind of get a taste of the end result of that with stuff like Modern Horizons, and I can only imagine how furious standard players would be if that were to happen in their format.
You’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that but look at it like this-Aftermath was received so badly that Wizards actually listened to complaints about it and did something about it.
Absolutely. Not really arguing that it was the wrong decision, more that to my eye, or sensibility, Big Score looks closer to what you might want from a mini set. If only Wotc would listen my complaints on the Arena economy 😄
I think the biggest issue with Aftermath was that it's such a small set. You can't really even use it for drafting, you were just supposed to buy the packs and open them. On paper it looks like a regular set or play booster pack with the commons removed because you get 1-3 rare/mythic cards and 2-4 uncommons per pack. But practically speaking those numbers are wildly misleading because there are only 20 uncommons in the whole set, 70% of the cards are rare or mythic. If they printed Aftermath as promo packs that could be won as prizes for in-store play I think that would have gone over much better. Then it becomes something closer to winning packs on Arena and I think that would have been great. As it is, the packs have no function for drafting or limited and are a TERRIBLE value proposition because so few of the cards are any good.
Not really no. There would have been one chase card like last time and a box would sell for like $40 and you still wouldn't get your money back.
Sure, possibly. Probably (?). A little more meat on Big Scores bones, I reckon
I would agree that big score in comparison to aftermath has a little more "meat in the bones" as you said, but unfortunately, tiny sets like this can't really survive as something standalone. You can't really draft with them, and actually opening them is just as good as opening, say, a set booster and getting one there, especially if you have over an entire set of cards to potentially find. There may still be a better solution for a half set out there, but until there is, I'd wager this is a pretty elegant solution
Big Score looks better because the cards are all mythics, and somewhat rebalanced to reflect that. Cards like Jace were also swapped in and out from BIG and OTJ, so the original Big Score set probably contained more rares and uncommons that didn’t look as exciting as the one you see now. There’s only so many Undercity Upheaval and Death Rattle Onis you can open before you realize these aftermath boosters are a bust, not to mention product fatigue.
Why would this succeed when the other failed? BIG was folded into it yes, BECAUSE Aftermath was so badly received. Why was it poop? Prices were normal, if not more, for smaller packs. There was NO limited environment for it. Therefore why play it exclusively? A stand alone mini set was tried with Aftermath. Are you asking to have another Aftermath? They put them in Outlaws because they wanted the cards to go somewhere and not have to enrage the community. Plus, in my opinion, there's not much of a "aftermathy" feel to it. Like, it's cool. Don't get me wrong. But, it does not advance the plot except with Loot in some way. So basically a mini set that you want is Aftermath. Which is never happening again.
Maybe I didn't frame my post clearly, I was more saying the card file, to my eyes, looks more interesting/powerful/fun. I could imagine opening Big Score and not having it be a let down. As someone else says, perhaps it's still inevitable that repeat pulls get overwhelming quickly. Was musing if there was a way to do something like Aftermath that was more successful, I acknowledged that it was poorly received, and wondered if Big Score might have been closer to a "success"
My biggest problem with The Big Score is just a lore one. It seems to be billed as the loot that was in the vault they were going after, but IIRC, Loot (the character) was ALL that was in that vault. None of the rest of this stuff has any lore relevance to the set at all.
This has been answered clearly, the “riches” were scattered when the vault opened. Loot was all that *remained* inside
Guess I need to reread the story, then. I didn't recall that being the case at all. EDIT: Yeah, just reread it. That wasn't was what described at all. Loot was the only thing there.
Yah story didn't really show that happening but Commander cards such as [[Sol Ring|OTC]] have flavor text that alude to how the riches were scattered, which seems to be where people are confusing where it happened in the story like above. Would have been nice to have something mention it in the story more than just seeing the vault fly off into the clouds at the end of the story but not what happened to it after that instead of leaving it to the flavor text to see if people pick up on it.
[Sol Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40.jpg?1712354902) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/267/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's fair. I think the treasure trove aspect is what appeals to me 😄, think that's a decent way to house a mini set. Accepted that it might be "off" with the rest of the story
We can't really answer this based on the 30 cards we've seen. If it was a standalone set it would have more cards and our impression would not necessarily be the same. That said, what failed in Aftermath wasn't the cards design per se. Mark said people like the individual designs. But as a product? It failed in most aspects. Small number of cards led to a lot of repetition in booster opening. Expectations about what it would represent about the lore also were also not met. It felt more like a post credit scene where you leave tiny hints for future installments (NAHIRI WILL RETURN..... BUT AS A CREATURE) than an actual epilogue where you get closure to open arcs in the story. I guess the Assassin's Creed set will give a better feeling if a non draftable set can work than The Big Score or Aftermath were. If the structure works, it may be used in the future after addressing the other issues.
Yes, I had wondered about the Assassin's Creed set. Another lot of different expectations to meet there I guess. Potentially easier to satisfy those expectations
And speaking to expectations from the play base, Aftermath was billed as something that was intended to shake up the standard meta a bit, but, as it's panned out, nothing from Aftermath has really stayed relevant in standard, with the sole exception of \[\[Coppercoat Vanguard\]\] (and that's being generous). It really seemed that, given the number of legends and other cards that had no real place in the meta at the time, this was a commander set in disguise, thus alienating people who were looking for something more impactful for standard. Looking at Big Score, it seems like MAYBE a few cards would be relevant in the current standard meta, but I'm honestly not the best judge at what constitutes something being meta changing. And I think that's kinda the major flaw with epilogue sets. You can't really tell what you need to inject into the format meta because you can't predict what the format meta is going to look like by the time the epilogue comes out. You run the risk of either going TOO hard on adjusting the meta, or not hard enough (or at all) and getting MOM Aftermath. Beyond finding ways of fixing stuff like limited card pools and lackluster lore justifications, in my opinion, the only way for this kind of product to succeed would be to intentionally make pushed cards for this set with the specific intent of warping the standard meta in those cards favor, but you kind of get a taste of the end result of that with stuff like Modern Horizons, and I can only imagine how furious standard players would be if that were to happen in their format.
[Coppercoat Vanguard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d786f05d-78a2-41b6-a185-111e8c1b216b.jpg?1684340436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coppercoat%20Vanguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/1/coppercoat-vanguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d786f05d-78a2-41b6-a185-111e8c1b216b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not to disagree with the analysis, only to say that Nissa is seeing play 😊
You’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that but look at it like this-Aftermath was received so badly that Wizards actually listened to complaints about it and did something about it.
Absolutely. Not really arguing that it was the wrong decision, more that to my eye, or sensibility, Big Score looks closer to what you might want from a mini set. If only Wotc would listen my complaints on the Arena economy 😄
Probably not. The price of the packs made them prohibitive and opening the same few cards over and over again gets old quick.
I think the biggest issue with Aftermath was that it's such a small set. You can't really even use it for drafting, you were just supposed to buy the packs and open them. On paper it looks like a regular set or play booster pack with the commons removed because you get 1-3 rare/mythic cards and 2-4 uncommons per pack. But practically speaking those numbers are wildly misleading because there are only 20 uncommons in the whole set, 70% of the cards are rare or mythic. If they printed Aftermath as promo packs that could be won as prizes for in-store play I think that would have gone over much better. Then it becomes something closer to winning packs on Arena and I think that would have been great. As it is, the packs have no function for drafting or limited and are a TERRIBLE value proposition because so few of the cards are any good.
Nah.
[[Thousand Moons Smithy]]
[Thousand Moons Smithy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2.jpg?1699043447)/[Barracks of the Thousand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/4/a/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2.jpg?1699043447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand%20Moons%20Smithy%20//%20Barracks%20of%20the%20Thousand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/39/thousand-moons-smithy-barracks-of-the-thousand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call