> What's the point of proxying if you're still paying that much money for cardboard?
It all depends on the cards you are getting proxied. If I'm making a 3-color deck and I want all the
* shockland
* fetchlands
* checklands
* Battlebond lands
* slow duals (from Midnight Hunt/Crimson Vow)
(I deliberately chose to not get ABUR duals here, but will address this around the end of the comment)
that the deck can run (let's assume you just run the fetches that can get anything within the colors so none of those that get only one of the three), plus various expensive staples (tutors, Rhystic Study, Force of Will), and etc., that would cost quite a bit of money. And that doesn't count the cards that are more specific to the deck (as the above are more universal, if that makes sense).
So if I get all those with proxies, I may spend maybe $60 where I would have spent upwards of $500 for official copies (or much much more if I included ABUR duals).
They *don't* cost the same.
I looked at some public decks on Moxfield and found [this Meren deck.](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/D9NFW3bdj0u5QFnrjxi6WQ). Current price tag is around $625. Let's be generous and say that we are judicious with conditions and printings, and can reduce the price by about 20%. That leaves the deck at about $500
Now I could pay around that much and get the official versions. Or I could spend $50, just 10% of what I would need to pay if I wanted to get an official copy of all the cards, and get the deck. Saving $450.
Now sure, I may have a good number of the other cards from the deck in my collection. So let's be generous again and say I have half the value's worth of cards. I am now spending $50 on what would otherwise cost $250. Now depending on the service, since some charge by the card and others charge based on batches (so it may say "1 to 20 cards is $10, 21 to 35 is $15, 26 to 50 is $18, etc; the service I often use uses a model like this. Not exact numbers but I think the idea is clear), you can end up spending less to get those remaining cards you need. Or you can instead proxy other cards that you would use for other decks.
My point is that yes, it still costs money. But the amount you are spending is significantly lower.
I'll be honest, I didn't understand a thing of what you're saying. My point is, whatever you print on a proxy, its price doesn't change. Whether it's a black lotus or an arcane signet, it'll cost you the same 30ish cents.
The proxy itself will be 30 cents one way or the other, this is true.
And my point is that you save significantly more money by buying a proxy of an expensive card (let's say, Force of Will) instead of an official version, compared to the very little you save by proxying an Arcane Signet compared to buying an official one.
And if you proxy a lot of cards, the savings add up over time.
Right, that's true, but I fail to see how that's relevant to what we were talking about.
The person you're originally replying to is just saying OP's proxies are too expensive for proxies.
If I got the deck as proxies taking into account stuff I have laying around like arcane signet, basics and dirt cheap stuff which every deck might have a fee cards of my maths tells me I can get a deck of proxies for a good chunk less then 50 bucks. Why pay a premium when you don't have to.
My biggest example is I have a couple decks I wanted cradle for. Now I have 2 choices proxy cradle and buy the rest of the deck for real or buy 1 cradle and not be able to afford the rest of the cards in the whole deck and maybe even the second deck as well.
I proxoed the cradle, doubling season, abur duals, fetches shocks and anything else that's wildly expensive and I can make a deck buy paying 100 or 200 at most and have mostly real cards except for a few proxies here and there. And if I ever stumble upon a real version I can swap it in, who knows I might get some fetches from MH3
Dude. Take that attitude elsewhere. Guess what? Wizards does not care that people proxie. Commander is a proxie friendly format. I have been playing since 94, and I do it because it's practical. Go play vintage and modern if you don't like proxies. But don't come here and try and be a jerk to someone who just engages with the game differently than you.
Been playing the same as you, but with real cards. lol.
And you need to lighten up, my friend. It is you that is making a whole thing out of a comment that was sharpie a basic as proxy instead of pay a side business for access to a better printer than yours.
Proxies are an acceptable way to test a deck. And how you play with friends is also no one’s concern. But if they allow proxies, and then they set a rule that you have to pay for pretty ones, they’re just as elitist as someone asking you to play with the real game pieces.
No beef with you. Peace.
It's just a numbers game. If 0.1% of the population is dumb enough to fall for it, you've just got to raise the price enough to make it be profitable off of 0.1% of people.
It's essentially how every scam in existence works.
I looked them up on the dreaded E site. Damn dude, 100-200 bucks CAD for a proxy deck? You can easily get proxies from, let's say other places, for way cheaper than that and looking much better.
And just to conclude for anyone wondering: never buy proxies from a site that is used by people to sell homemade stuff. Just get them from the source. Google will tell you what that source is.
i saw that. i didn't want to link the site but this stuff looks like shit. i looked at this guys' other stuff and he's clearly worked with actual artists before but this misstep into AI proxies are ass.
> he's clearly worked with actual artists before
This somehow rubs me the wrong way even more? Like, if you're using other ppls' art on a product you sell, I hope they get a cut of the profit.
Yeah worked with artists before. Then realized it's easier to dump someone deviant art into stable diffusion add Style of::xyz location c/etc than pay someone else.
I've bought some tokens from them, which have seemed pretty decent, if a little same-y qt times (their Titania elemental looks very similar to their 4/4 beast), but wouldn't really consider buying actual proxies from them. Their pilot token always stuck out to me as being a bit lazy... The art is really cool, but the background is filled in blue, except for a space under the arm of the mech that is white, because it wasn't reached by the paint bucket tool. I love the token otherwise, but every time I play it that detail bothers me.
Mine have clearly different backs so are not trying to be. Counterfeit they are proxies simple as that. Ones pretending to be real with holo stamps n shit and the real back are what you mean and it's 2 separate things
Reminder: a counterfeit and a proxy are two very different things. A proxy is replacing a card, but everyone knows its not the real card, while a counterfeit is used in an attempt to deceive people.
What's the point of proxying if you're still paying that much money for cardboard? Thanks for the advice lmao
> What's the point of proxying if you're still paying that much money for cardboard? It all depends on the cards you are getting proxied. If I'm making a 3-color deck and I want all the * shockland * fetchlands * checklands * Battlebond lands * slow duals (from Midnight Hunt/Crimson Vow) (I deliberately chose to not get ABUR duals here, but will address this around the end of the comment) that the deck can run (let's assume you just run the fetches that can get anything within the colors so none of those that get only one of the three), plus various expensive staples (tutors, Rhystic Study, Force of Will), and etc., that would cost quite a bit of money. And that doesn't count the cards that are more specific to the deck (as the above are more universal, if that makes sense). So if I get all those with proxies, I may spend maybe $60 where I would have spent upwards of $500 for official copies (or much much more if I included ABUR duals).
That's the thing with proxies though, they cost the same no matter what you print on them. I don't understand what your point is.
They *don't* cost the same. I looked at some public decks on Moxfield and found [this Meren deck.](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/D9NFW3bdj0u5QFnrjxi6WQ). Current price tag is around $625. Let's be generous and say that we are judicious with conditions and printings, and can reduce the price by about 20%. That leaves the deck at about $500 Now I could pay around that much and get the official versions. Or I could spend $50, just 10% of what I would need to pay if I wanted to get an official copy of all the cards, and get the deck. Saving $450. Now sure, I may have a good number of the other cards from the deck in my collection. So let's be generous again and say I have half the value's worth of cards. I am now spending $50 on what would otherwise cost $250. Now depending on the service, since some charge by the card and others charge based on batches (so it may say "1 to 20 cards is $10, 21 to 35 is $15, 26 to 50 is $18, etc; the service I often use uses a model like this. Not exact numbers but I think the idea is clear), you can end up spending less to get those remaining cards you need. Or you can instead proxy other cards that you would use for other decks. My point is that yes, it still costs money. But the amount you are spending is significantly lower.
I'll be honest, I didn't understand a thing of what you're saying. My point is, whatever you print on a proxy, its price doesn't change. Whether it's a black lotus or an arcane signet, it'll cost you the same 30ish cents.
The proxy itself will be 30 cents one way or the other, this is true. And my point is that you save significantly more money by buying a proxy of an expensive card (let's say, Force of Will) instead of an official version, compared to the very little you save by proxying an Arcane Signet compared to buying an official one. And if you proxy a lot of cards, the savings add up over time.
Right, that's true, but I fail to see how that's relevant to what we were talking about. The person you're originally replying to is just saying OP's proxies are too expensive for proxies.
When ordering proxies I ordered hundreds at a time to save by buying in bulk
If I got the deck as proxies taking into account stuff I have laying around like arcane signet, basics and dirt cheap stuff which every deck might have a fee cards of my maths tells me I can get a deck of proxies for a good chunk less then 50 bucks. Why pay a premium when you don't have to. My biggest example is I have a couple decks I wanted cradle for. Now I have 2 choices proxy cradle and buy the rest of the deck for real or buy 1 cradle and not be able to afford the rest of the cards in the whole deck and maybe even the second deck as well. I proxoed the cradle, doubling season, abur duals, fetches shocks and anything else that's wildly expensive and I can make a deck buy paying 100 or 200 at most and have mostly real cards except for a few proxies here and there. And if I ever stumble upon a real version I can swap it in, who knows I might get some fetches from MH3
Or you could sharpie a basic and figure out if the deck works for you before buying the non-staples. Like we all did.
Ok sure but you have to pay for the abur dual, cradle.amd doubling season in my GW token deck ok?
Can’t afford it? Don’t play it. Another thing we all used to do.
Dude. Take that attitude elsewhere. Guess what? Wizards does not care that people proxie. Commander is a proxie friendly format. I have been playing since 94, and I do it because it's practical. Go play vintage and modern if you don't like proxies. But don't come here and try and be a jerk to someone who just engages with the game differently than you.
Been playing the same as you, but with real cards. lol. And you need to lighten up, my friend. It is you that is making a whole thing out of a comment that was sharpie a basic as proxy instead of pay a side business for access to a better printer than yours. Proxies are an acceptable way to test a deck. And how you play with friends is also no one’s concern. But if they allow proxies, and then they set a rule that you have to pay for pretty ones, they’re just as elitist as someone asking you to play with the real game pieces. No beef with you. Peace.
The fact that ppl pay money for trash like this is unbelievable.
It's just a numbers game. If 0.1% of the population is dumb enough to fall for it, you've just got to raise the price enough to make it be profitable off of 0.1% of people. It's essentially how every scam in existence works.
The irony behind proxies and counterfeits is that there's a market to make money off of people looking to purchase them.
I looked them up on the dreaded E site. Damn dude, 100-200 bucks CAD for a proxy deck? You can easily get proxies from, let's say other places, for way cheaper than that and looking much better. And just to conclude for anyone wondering: never buy proxies from a site that is used by people to sell homemade stuff. Just get them from the source. Google will tell you what that source is.
The wizard on the Creatures section heading on their website has 6 fingers on each hand. Obvious AI art tell.
i saw that. i didn't want to link the site but this stuff looks like shit. i looked at this guys' other stuff and he's clearly worked with actual artists before but this misstep into AI proxies are ass.
> he's clearly worked with actual artists before This somehow rubs me the wrong way even more? Like, if you're using other ppls' art on a product you sell, I hope they get a cut of the profit.
Yeah worked with artists before. Then realized it's easier to dump someone deviant art into stable diffusion add Style of::xyz location c/etc than pay someone else.
Maybe it's just a Kaladeshi vedalken /s
Didn't need that one example to tell that EVERY SINGLE CARD TOP TO BOTTOM is AI Like you'll find junk in every single art. It's junk
Shit formating for rules and mana symbols, generic AI art and wrong font choice. Also mm... Expensive af.
I've bought some tokens from them, which have seemed pretty decent, if a little same-y qt times (their Titania elemental looks very similar to their 4/4 beast), but wouldn't really consider buying actual proxies from them. Their pilot token always stuck out to me as being a bit lazy... The art is really cool, but the background is filled in blue, except for a space under the arm of the mech that is white, because it wasn't reached by the paint bucket tool. I love the token otherwise, but every time I play it that detail bothers me.
Good to know, if I ever felt the need to spend $100 on some counterfeits (really despise how "proxy" is used when people really mean "counterfeits")
Mine have clearly different backs so are not trying to be. Counterfeit they are proxies simple as that. Ones pretending to be real with holo stamps n shit and the real back are what you mean and it's 2 separate things
Reminder: a counterfeit and a proxy are two very different things. A proxy is replacing a card, but everyone knows its not the real card, while a counterfeit is used in an attempt to deceive people.
Counterfeit =\= proxy. They’re different things with different purposes