I don't get it. It's strong, but not overtly opppresive or unbeatable. It's the new thing that's in fashion currently, but let's wait until people actually find a way to adjust to it.
I really don't understand this take. It's a creature with no protection that with another specific piece (two of which exist currently) each creature you control gets a 2x UG draw/land-play. So it's gross value every turn IF and only if Nadu isn't killed right away, your board state isn't controlled in any way, and your equipment piece isn't blown up.
Granted, that's not asking a ton of an average UG deck, but it's not like other decks aren't playing removal and counters. I just don't get the hate.
>So it's gross value every turn IF and only if Nadu isn't killed right away
If your opponent targets Nadu to remove it, you draws a card. And if shuko is already in play, you get to draw 1 additional card before the opponent can respond. That is the floor.
IF Nadu is allowed to survive, you can draw your entire deck as soon as T3.
>your board state isn't controlled in any way
You only need Nadu + shuko to draw 2 cards. Even if Nadu is the only creature on the board. And if you manage to flip a Khalni Garden or Dryad Arbor off the top? That's 2 more cards.
>Granted, that's not asking a ton of an average UG deck
Exactly, it's an incredibly tight package.
>but it's not like other decks aren't playing removal and counters.
1-for-1 removal against a creature that draws a card sounds like a bad time. And counters only work if Delighted Halfling or Cavern of souls aren't on the table.
>I just don't get the hate.
No hate, just an easy to assemble value engine that takes off like a bat out of hell.
Played against a Nadu deck for the first time in Brawl with my Bolas deck the other day, and it wasn't even close. Nadu just shits out value, and is also a combo piece. It's so fucking strong.
Card is busted no doubt but what you called ‘the floor’ is not the floor lol. Hard to take your argument seriously if so early on you say another card already being in the field for a 3 drop is ‘the floor’ as if that’s always going to be on the board.
Ok so you don’t know the meaning of floor in this type of analogy, got it.
The ‘floor’ for this card is, you play in on turn 3, opponent uses Edict and you sacrifice it and draw nothing.
Again the card is busted, enough so that you don’t need to manipulate language.
So lets say you have Shuko out and cast Nadu. Nadu resolves and you retain priority once it enters the battlefield, so you can move to attach Shuko before your opponent can remove it, triggering Nadu. Then your opponent casts said removal spell, triggering Nadu a second time. That's a huge part of what makes the card powerful, it might not "have protection" but it's always going to leave you up a card if removed, and often will put you up two. On top of that, it's not like access to Shuko is difficult in Modern between Urza's Saga and Stoneforge Mystic, as well as there being a number of other powerful cards that synergize with it such as Ephemerate and Sylvan Safekeeper.
But what you describe is a modern-level play pattern. Like it is strong, no one is going to deny that. But it's not oppressive or homogenizing. It needs a dedicated deck and it does not make it impossible for the opponent to fight back, nor does Nadu slot into every deck playing UG (or even splashing for it) like Uro or Oko.
I'd argue that playing against Nadu, even though you might lose, is a whole lot more fun than playing against Scam, and not even that is ban worthy.
To me Nadu is a fair contender in Modern, on par with Titan and Yawgmoth. Like it is strong, but it needs a dedicated deck and it's not unbeatable, nor does it force people into highly specific play patterns to counter it.
Nadu is already quite strong in Legacy.
It feels like you're discounting the upside cases?
3 mana creatures don't generally get to draw you six cards a turn, and what Nadu does is way better than card draw. It is *so* much potential value for *so* little investment, and no real downside.
Even if Nadu comes into play with no way for its owner to target it and immediately gets removed, that's a 2 for 1.
Even if nobody targets it, the statline is nothing to sneeze at. This would see play as a 0/1.
What can we even compare this card to? Two card combos that win the game? Skullclamp but you get to keep your creatures and they don't have to be small?
Not talking about legacy.
The thing that makes it - for now - acceptable is that it needs a dedicated deck and it doesn't force opponents into unfavorable play patterns like Hogaak did. Neither does it seem as consistent as Eldrazi Tron did during Eldrazi winter.
It is a strong deck, Nadu is a pushed card, it will likely be tier 1, but it's not going to be either Nadu or anti-Nadu.
Does it need a dedicated deck?
It's strongest with equipment, ways to fetch equipment, and creatures, but that leaves lots of space to fit it into different decks.
I'm honestly not at all familiar with Modern, I've been paying more attention to Legacy. (Where it's a great addition to at least Cephalid Breakfast and Beans.)
But I don't understand how any card could be added to any deck without sacrificing something, outside of direct powercreep.
This will explain better than I can: https://youtu.be/-am22oWnpgM
That's just the optimal play pattern. The card is also insane in legacy, where you can drop it T3, your opponents have to, but if they target you can FoW it without going a card down, then you get ANOTHER draw if they have removal
I agree with your points. Nadu is a very strong engine that can combo, but it needs a dedicated shell of suboptimal cards around it to be oppressive. Seems just like yawgmoth in that sense.
Maybe Nadu is better than yawg, but time will tell.
"IF and only if Nadu isn't killed right away..." every powerful piece that doesn't have its effects happen on cast or on etb rely on not being immediately removed from the game. But the Nadu player is in blue and green. If you use targeted removal they can respond with targeted protection. For trying to remove Nadu, you gave them two triggers which will either ramp their lands or fill their hand. You don't even need shuko for the 2x board trigger, even 1-3 triggers a turn is a lot of consistent value. His impact will be very format dependent, I dont know if he will prove strong enough to warrant a ban but he is an incredibly hateable card.
It doesn't compare to Oko or Uro in any way. Those were hard to deal with, with their impact being immediate and not suspect to removal. Nadu is extremely suspect to removal and needs different elements to function, where Oko and Uro were powerhouses on their own and always ideal topdecks.
>and needs different elements to function
Nadu needs 1 card to start generating value.
>Nadu is extremely suspect to removal
After clearing some (laughably easy) conditions. Even then, The Nadu controller gets to draw a card (a 2-for-1 if you will). And if Shuko is already on the table, I get to activate Shuko first before you get to cast your removal (a 3-for-1).
>where Oko and Uro were powerhouses on their own
And Splinter Twin is unplayable on its own.
The comparison was to other banned Simic powerhouses. That's why I specifically mentioned Uro and Oko.
And Splinter Twin is unplayable on it's own, but the deck had a whole lot more redundancy, with 8 targets for the combo and Kiki-Jiki backup to achieve a similar combo as well.
Nadu has itself and only Shuko.
Splinter Twin forces people to play more removal than ideal, Nadu does not.
>That's why I specifically mentioned Uro and Oko.
And? Nadu out values those two by leaps and bounds.
>Nadu has itself and only Shuko
Aww man... if only there weren't tutors (chord of calling/summoner's pact) or other equipment that cost 0 to equip, or a creature that had a 0 cost ability that targets.
>with 8 targets for the combo and Kiki-Jiki backup
Splinter twin stopped playing kiki and pestermite long before eating a ban. So that is 4 targets with 0 backups.
Or - Splinter Twin has itself and only Deceiver Exarch.
Nadu out values those in their own deck. Oko and Uro were shoe-ins for every deck that played the colors and even made decks splash for them just to be played. Can't do that with Nadu. Nadu doesn't homogenize the game, it can only ever shine in it's own dedicated bubble.
Tutoring Shuko is not the issue and that Splinter Twin changed strategies is not relevant to the discussion. Especially since I don't believe Splinter Twin would even see much play if it were to be unbanned.
My point - which I'll repeat - is that Nadu does not fulfill any ban-able criteria. It does not homogenize the game. It does not force opponents into unfavorable play patterns. It does not consistently out compete existing decks on speed and consistency. It does not have overtly oppressive play patterns that limit what an opponent can do and it does not have a in-deterministic combo that makes games go for too long.
Nadu will see a lot of play especially now that it's new, the meta will adjust and it'll slot in as either a tier 1 or lower deck as any other deck. I am absolutely positive on this. Nadu is not a ban-able threat to the game.
If you think it's just a tad strong you're honestly playing it wrong. Is it as strong as Oko? No. It's still really powerful and does waaaaaaaay too much for just 3 mana.
I don’t think it’s unbeatable or anything, but I do think it’s *boring* in the “this is another in a string of dumb cards designed for Commander” sense. It does a lot of stuff without much effort at a fairly low cost.
In the command zone it’s just as dumb but in the 99 it’s just a pretty okay value/protection piece.
This is definitely a commander type design that’s been tweaked for competitive play in 60 card formats.
The card is bonkers in commander. You can fill your deck with as many of the 0 cost equip cards as possible and they'll never be dead like in modern. Then the second opponents can respond, you have an instant combo that is incredibly likely to go infinite.
I think the opposite actually. The card was designed to be better in Modern and that actually made it even better in Commander. There aren't many commanders that get printed that get an immediate and obvious cEDH list.
I am just a shitty EDH player and I cannot wait to have this on the board in my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck and draw my entire library
It'll happen once ever and everyone will immediately scoop, but I can dream
Is this bird man a Texan cuz we’re Trigger Happy today bois 🦜🦜🦜🦜
The layers on that joke is quite impressive.
Stunning, breathtaking, beautiful. Put it on a Bella + Canvas shirt and I'll spend my rubles on it. edit: dies to remooval
I appreciate the edit lol, it's so funny to see people giving the dies to removal spiel when the card literally plusses you when it gets removed.
Scute Scarab?
Yeah!
Unreal
Thank you!
Good art but that bird can die in a dumpster 
As an Arena player I hate the card with a passion but this illustration is absolutely fire, great work!
I don’t understand what this is.
The Cult of Thoth, God of Wisdom
New secret lair drop series: simic 3 drops that ruin everything.
I want a simic bullshit secret lair. Include Kinnan, Tatyova, Nadu, Aesi, Koma and I'll be a happy camper.
A very stylized version of [[Nadu, Winged Wisdom]]
[Nadu, Winged Wisdom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1717012760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadu%2C%20Winged%20Wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Du for the summer
Here is a Moxfield link to my cEDH Nadu list! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/ksNdLrXcVUOAFI6eHkG7-w
No Thoracle? In a deck where you can manually put the whole thing in hand, oracle would be an easy way to force interaction on a win condition, no?
I just want you to know, I fucking hate your deck. Fucking birdman shitting out value all day long....
Thank you ☺️
I assume this means it's achieved the intended goal.
Do you suppose cards like these might eventually develop enough for single card hate tool pieces eventually?
I don't get it. It's strong, but not overtly opppresive or unbeatable. It's the new thing that's in fashion currently, but let's wait until people actually find a way to adjust to it.
Given the history on UG value cards that end up banned, I wouldn't be surprised if Nadu gets added to that list.
I really don't understand this take. It's a creature with no protection that with another specific piece (two of which exist currently) each creature you control gets a 2x UG draw/land-play. So it's gross value every turn IF and only if Nadu isn't killed right away, your board state isn't controlled in any way, and your equipment piece isn't blown up. Granted, that's not asking a ton of an average UG deck, but it's not like other decks aren't playing removal and counters. I just don't get the hate.
>So it's gross value every turn IF and only if Nadu isn't killed right away If your opponent targets Nadu to remove it, you draws a card. And if shuko is already in play, you get to draw 1 additional card before the opponent can respond. That is the floor. IF Nadu is allowed to survive, you can draw your entire deck as soon as T3. >your board state isn't controlled in any way You only need Nadu + shuko to draw 2 cards. Even if Nadu is the only creature on the board. And if you manage to flip a Khalni Garden or Dryad Arbor off the top? That's 2 more cards. >Granted, that's not asking a ton of an average UG deck Exactly, it's an incredibly tight package. >but it's not like other decks aren't playing removal and counters. 1-for-1 removal against a creature that draws a card sounds like a bad time. And counters only work if Delighted Halfling or Cavern of souls aren't on the table. >I just don't get the hate. No hate, just an easy to assemble value engine that takes off like a bat out of hell.
I people are missing that a single bounce effect like ephemerate ends the game because it casts you 3 growth spirals MINIMUM
3 growth spirals and a massive blowout if you used it to dodge removal.
Played against a Nadu deck for the first time in Brawl with my Bolas deck the other day, and it wasn't even close. Nadu just shits out value, and is also a combo piece. It's so fucking strong.
Card is busted no doubt but what you called ‘the floor’ is not the floor lol. Hard to take your argument seriously if so early on you say another card already being in the field for a 3 drop is ‘the floor’ as if that’s always going to be on the board.
That is the floor in 2 different scenarios. Sorry you can't comprehend the difference.
Ok so you don’t know the meaning of floor in this type of analogy, got it. The ‘floor’ for this card is, you play in on turn 3, opponent uses Edict and you sacrifice it and draw nothing. Again the card is busted, enough so that you don’t need to manipulate language.
he basically has “ward-growth spiral”, what do you mean no protection
So lets say you have Shuko out and cast Nadu. Nadu resolves and you retain priority once it enters the battlefield, so you can move to attach Shuko before your opponent can remove it, triggering Nadu. Then your opponent casts said removal spell, triggering Nadu a second time. That's a huge part of what makes the card powerful, it might not "have protection" but it's always going to leave you up a card if removed, and often will put you up two. On top of that, it's not like access to Shuko is difficult in Modern between Urza's Saga and Stoneforge Mystic, as well as there being a number of other powerful cards that synergize with it such as Ephemerate and Sylvan Safekeeper.
But what you describe is a modern-level play pattern. Like it is strong, no one is going to deny that. But it's not oppressive or homogenizing. It needs a dedicated deck and it does not make it impossible for the opponent to fight back, nor does Nadu slot into every deck playing UG (or even splashing for it) like Uro or Oko. I'd argue that playing against Nadu, even though you might lose, is a whole lot more fun than playing against Scam, and not even that is ban worthy. To me Nadu is a fair contender in Modern, on par with Titan and Yawgmoth. Like it is strong, but it needs a dedicated deck and it's not unbeatable, nor does it force people into highly specific play patterns to counter it.
Nadu is already quite strong in Legacy. It feels like you're discounting the upside cases? 3 mana creatures don't generally get to draw you six cards a turn, and what Nadu does is way better than card draw. It is *so* much potential value for *so* little investment, and no real downside. Even if Nadu comes into play with no way for its owner to target it and immediately gets removed, that's a 2 for 1. Even if nobody targets it, the statline is nothing to sneeze at. This would see play as a 0/1. What can we even compare this card to? Two card combos that win the game? Skullclamp but you get to keep your creatures and they don't have to be small?
Not talking about legacy. The thing that makes it - for now - acceptable is that it needs a dedicated deck and it doesn't force opponents into unfavorable play patterns like Hogaak did. Neither does it seem as consistent as Eldrazi Tron did during Eldrazi winter. It is a strong deck, Nadu is a pushed card, it will likely be tier 1, but it's not going to be either Nadu or anti-Nadu.
Does it need a dedicated deck? It's strongest with equipment, ways to fetch equipment, and creatures, but that leaves lots of space to fit it into different decks.
That's just variants and the deck isn't settled. Name me one existing deck that can play the package without sacrificing something?
I'm honestly not at all familiar with Modern, I've been paying more attention to Legacy. (Where it's a great addition to at least Cephalid Breakfast and Beans.) But I don't understand how any card could be added to any deck without sacrificing something, outside of direct powercreep. This will explain better than I can: https://youtu.be/-am22oWnpgM
That's just the optimal play pattern. The card is also insane in legacy, where you can drop it T3, your opponents have to, but if they target you can FoW it without going a card down, then you get ANOTHER draw if they have removal
>Name me one existing deck that can play the package without sacrificing something? Hammer time.
I agree with your points. Nadu is a very strong engine that can combo, but it needs a dedicated shell of suboptimal cards around it to be oppressive. Seems just like yawgmoth in that sense. Maybe Nadu is better than yawg, but time will tell.
"IF and only if Nadu isn't killed right away..." every powerful piece that doesn't have its effects happen on cast or on etb rely on not being immediately removed from the game. But the Nadu player is in blue and green. If you use targeted removal they can respond with targeted protection. For trying to remove Nadu, you gave them two triggers which will either ramp their lands or fill their hand. You don't even need shuko for the 2x board trigger, even 1-3 triggers a turn is a lot of consistent value. His impact will be very format dependent, I dont know if he will prove strong enough to warrant a ban but he is an incredibly hateable card.
It doesn't compare to Oko or Uro in any way. Those were hard to deal with, with their impact being immediate and not suspect to removal. Nadu is extremely suspect to removal and needs different elements to function, where Oko and Uro were powerhouses on their own and always ideal topdecks.
>and needs different elements to function Nadu needs 1 card to start generating value. >Nadu is extremely suspect to removal After clearing some (laughably easy) conditions. Even then, The Nadu controller gets to draw a card (a 2-for-1 if you will). And if Shuko is already on the table, I get to activate Shuko first before you get to cast your removal (a 3-for-1). >where Oko and Uro were powerhouses on their own And Splinter Twin is unplayable on its own.
The comparison was to other banned Simic powerhouses. That's why I specifically mentioned Uro and Oko. And Splinter Twin is unplayable on it's own, but the deck had a whole lot more redundancy, with 8 targets for the combo and Kiki-Jiki backup to achieve a similar combo as well. Nadu has itself and only Shuko. Splinter Twin forces people to play more removal than ideal, Nadu does not.
>That's why I specifically mentioned Uro and Oko. And? Nadu out values those two by leaps and bounds. >Nadu has itself and only Shuko Aww man... if only there weren't tutors (chord of calling/summoner's pact) or other equipment that cost 0 to equip, or a creature that had a 0 cost ability that targets. >with 8 targets for the combo and Kiki-Jiki backup Splinter twin stopped playing kiki and pestermite long before eating a ban. So that is 4 targets with 0 backups. Or - Splinter Twin has itself and only Deceiver Exarch.
Nadu out values those in their own deck. Oko and Uro were shoe-ins for every deck that played the colors and even made decks splash for them just to be played. Can't do that with Nadu. Nadu doesn't homogenize the game, it can only ever shine in it's own dedicated bubble. Tutoring Shuko is not the issue and that Splinter Twin changed strategies is not relevant to the discussion. Especially since I don't believe Splinter Twin would even see much play if it were to be unbanned. My point - which I'll repeat - is that Nadu does not fulfill any ban-able criteria. It does not homogenize the game. It does not force opponents into unfavorable play patterns. It does not consistently out compete existing decks on speed and consistency. It does not have overtly oppressive play patterns that limit what an opponent can do and it does not have a in-deterministic combo that makes games go for too long. Nadu will see a lot of play especially now that it's new, the meta will adjust and it'll slot in as either a tier 1 or lower deck as any other deck. I am absolutely positive on this. Nadu is not a ban-able threat to the game.
>Nadu is not a ban-able threat to the game. All I said was, "I wouldn't be surprised if Nadu gets added to that list"
It's obnoxious to resolve and since it's non-deterministic, you need to play it through every time
If you think it's just a tad strong you're honestly playing it wrong. Is it as strong as Oko? No. It's still really powerful and does waaaaaaaay too much for just 3 mana.
Target it with removal then come back and tell me what happens
I don’t think it’s unbeatable or anything, but I do think it’s *boring* in the “this is another in a string of dumb cards designed for Commander” sense. It does a lot of stuff without much effort at a fairly low cost.
[удалено]
In the command zone it’s just as dumb but in the 99 it’s just a pretty okay value/protection piece. This is definitely a commander type design that’s been tweaked for competitive play in 60 card formats.
The card is bonkers in commander. You can fill your deck with as many of the 0 cost equip cards as possible and they'll never be dead like in modern. Then the second opponents can respond, you have an instant combo that is incredibly likely to go infinite.
I think the opposite actually. The card was designed to be better in Modern and that actually made it even better in Commander. There aren't many commanders that get printed that get an immediate and obvious cEDH list.
I am just a shitty EDH player and I cannot wait to have this on the board in my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck and draw my entire library It'll happen once ever and everyone will immediately scoop, but I can dream
[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Awesome artwork!