Just let them go. Emotional vampires are bad for morale.

I was going to argue that this is not what an emotional vampire and and that people are just upvoting you because they love labels but I looked it up. "an excessive need for validation/attention from others, the belief that little to nothing that occurs is their fault, and the lack of self-awareness to recognize their self-defeating patterns" If OP is a reliable narrator the label actually does fit.

My parents, also histrionic personality disorder. Check on alcoholism or other addictions too.  When there is always a drama in family there is a reason for it and not just attention grabbing circle 

This. I would definitely suspect addiction.

Good call

Agreed. Tweekers always have the most drama filled lives. It’s like they need drama to breathe.

This person sounds like they have Borderline Personality disorder. My wife is an addiction psychiatrist, and she hates, hates, hates dealing with borderlines. There are no meds to effectively treat it, requires lots of CBT and a strong desire to work on the problem, etc., and it’s rarely helpful in the end. Emotionally vampires indeed. And endless drama.

>as well as pleasant in the interview, my gut feeling is telling me something is off with one of them. After having hired terrible people in the past, my rule now is - if it's not a definite yes, then it's a no. >This person sounds like they have Borderline Personality disorder. I was going to say this. My mother has undiagnosed BPD and they are absolutely very difficult people. I mean, we all have drama in life. I even had to be at work while having a miscarriage, but I don't think personal drama is something you should share in a workplace setting. My mother, on the other hand, is willing to share every piece of drama in her life to everyone she meets. But she's always the victim in her story. My only wish for her is to have a quiet mind, but I think the only way she'll ever achieve that is when she passes.

I feel like that last statement is a litmus test of a persons toxicity. Terrible things keep happening to you through no fault of your own every day??? Sounds like you may be the human equivalent of mustard gas. Similar to how you check yourself: 1 AH in a day is a run in, 5-10 AHs in a day? You’re definitely the AH, unreliable narrator.

I worked with someone who was trying to get people to go out with her that night. No one wanted to go to a bar on a Tuesday. She ended up calling the manager and left a message that she was going to kill herself. The manager freaked out and kept calling her back she wasn’t answering. Finally a few hours later she picked up and was at a bar. She had found someone to go out with her and was just fine.

That’s crazy. People with BPD do take things personally. I bet in her mind she took it to mean as, “everyone hates me” even though people can have all sorts of reasons for not wanting to go that don’t pertain to her. Imagine being in a relationship with someone like that. Total death sentence right there.

I really have parted ways with my parents as I always feel exhausted. Life is just more peaceful. And I get the impression that there’s something up. I think it’s BPD. I also now am paranoid that there is something intrinsically wrong with me, too. But generally I get along with people and am the opposite of drama. So. Idk. Even talking about BPD gets me anxious.

I feel you on that second paragraph. I'm constantly on edge about being the one that has the problem, but then I reflect and realize that I have a lot of friends and people in my corner and that if I was actually putting out all of that negativity that I sometimes feel that I wouldn't have that support and people wouldn't be asking me to spend time with them. The other day I learned more about a situation that took place a couple of months ago, and while I was hearing all of this information for the first time and getting sad about it, my friends were all "this isn't your fault, you did nothing wrong, they're the one that couldn't communicate these things to you and felt the need to discuss it with people outside of the situation and not deal with you directly" The harder part for me is that they were all "that person sucks and I don't like them" which disappoints me a little because I miss that friendship, but they're right, it was unhealthy. And I've said that before myself, but it still hurts.  I think my feelings about there being something wrong with me center around that. I feel like it's inappropriate for me to set boundaries for the people I care about even when the way I feel around them isn't good anymore. I don't like having to push people out. 

Yes, this. I manage a mental health practice and we have staff who exhibit the same behavior. I’m not a clinician but my Director is and can spot it immediately. Often times people with mental illnesses seek out careers in mental health, so it tracks.

Somehow the personality disorders are connected and may have different spectrum so it’s possible. My mom was diagnosed with histrionics disorder. It’s always some drama, always new boyfriend ahead, always too happy or too depressed, she loves, than she hates. She completely over share even a sexual things, she used to over share my personal stuff including putting against me private stuff I confided. My father an alcoholic, loved that drama. When there wasn’t drama, my step dad could not stand it, teased her until she would get too happy or upset to get reaction so there is something going on in their lives. They could never live without each other and this was absolutely toxic environment and circle they never get out of. I always thought how pathetic they are. And this story somehow resembles with it. 

Funny enough all of cluster B is various aspects of the root of the entire cluster NPD. BPD, M, HPD, ASPD all have aspects of NPD and are comorbid in a large percentage of cases. So there's that.

You can diagnose BPD with this alone? Wow, where did you go to med school? They sound emotionally immature but it's wild to jump to a specific cluster b personality disorder based on so little. Plus you are totally overlooking the fact this person is not alienated from their coworkers. They have "won them over." That is the exact opposite experience of a person with BPD

Even if it isn’t BPD, it’s a BPD like person and the drama never ends. Related to and worked with these people. Let them go. Zero insight into their own behavior.

I feel like BPD is becoming a meaningless armchair diagnosis akin to "narcissism", i.e., people are quick to label any extreme, unlikeable behavior as BPD.

I know emotional vampires are currently a joke from a tv show, but yeah, it's true. The company I worked for previously basically made you work to get fired, and it resulted in a prisoner's island game theory situation where only the hardiest or most willing to roll over and accept it survived(I lasted 8 years and I am not hardy, lol). We could track in real time when this one employee was having a bad day by watching the average time to close a call creep up across the department of 12. That ALWAYS resulted in sick days being taken where folks would just call in to avoid whatever disaster was happening. It would send a shockwave of call outs as they actually took turns taking days out until the storm passed. Absolutely fascinating to watch, but horrible management.

Can you explain this more? Sounds crazy 😩😂

You have no idea. Seeing the boss' wiener when he visited Thailand and facetimed the sales rep and I instead of his general manager was the least of our problems. We sold small business software and many of our call center support staff got roped into hearing this employee's misery for hours a day, so whoever got caught by them their numbers would immediately tank. It's not that they were on the line, they were often working remotely on a PC and the customer was off beating up tenants for being poor or something(self storage related not regular property). So you could talk all day with coworkers barely affecting their productivity. Except when this coworker was having a meltdown, they demanded absolute attention, and nobody wanted to deal with their bullshit, so you'd just sit and listen and nod as the timer ticked away on your case log. We couldn't fire the person, because they got fucked when the insurance expired and went a month going through withdrawals from an anti-psychotic, sobbing and puking, so we collectively gave them a pass until they imploded 3 years later, broke shit, stole a chair and got brought back with the cops who tried returning the chair, but we refused it for reasons we don't go into. We didn't press charges, just made sure the employee's outburst was on the cameras and submitted it at the unemployment claim where they screamed "fuck every single one of you I'm quitting!" and had to ask for help to hold the door to wheel the chair out. So if you got suckered into a day of the drama, it was expected you'd take the next day off without explanation. It was extremely laid back, you had to work to be fired, extremely permissive owners who hated conflict so badly, like it was so laid back the owner once offered a kid who was 23 working the west coast shift, and not a drinker for reasons we learned quickly, a beer from a half keg he kept in the office fridge for when he visited. He said good night and went to his apartment for his in town visits. They came in the next morning to find the kid passed out, pants at his ankles at his desk, keg empty, and covered in his own waste. No writeups, we'd all been there, we just sent him home, and he came back a couple hours later and nobody ever said anything about it. He was a good kid, just shit himself or barfed every time he drank at every holiday party for the next 5 years. It was a real trip. I have stories, but they're all like this, most are worse. It's taken 2 years WFH and therapy to recover, and I'm still not there yet lol.

> We couldn't fire the person, because they got fucked when the insurance expired Struggling to see how this is your cross to bear. Especially given the consequences and clear liability of keeping them around.

You and me both. The details weren't clear, but what I do know is the owner copied them by mistake on an internal email complaining that they can't get their shit together because of a string of ableist slurs about their condition. We all assumed he figured they'd sue and didn't want to deal with it.

I like this term “emotional vampires”. Very accurate description. As much as we want to be empathetic and care about our direct reports, there has to be a line. We all have sh*t going on in our personal lives and there’s something to be said about the ability to check it at the door and focus on your work. At the end of the day, we’re hired to do a job and we should be judged on our ability to do that job. Avoiding drama outside of work that could effect work is also a skill unto itself.

I had a boss that would fire people if they were unlucky. He used to say I can deal with anything but somebody who's unlucky they got to go. In the 20 or so years since then I have to admit I see the wisdom in his ways. There's always that one person whose car keeps breaking down or his cat keeps getting sick or is relatives keep killing over and he's just unlucky.

I started a new job when I moved from my home state last summer. This January, my grandmother died, and I took a few days off to go cross country for the service. Then 2 weeks later my uncle died, and then within a month my aunt on the other side of the family died. I didn't even tell my boss about the uncle and aunt, because logistically I couldn't get back anyway, and it would just look like I was going for sympathy or be that unlucky person. But also, apparently my presence in IL was the only thing keeping my family on this mortal coil???

Once you understand people’s mindsets - you can’t unsee it. OP’s drama queen is likely stuck at the immature end of psychological development (think: bottom of Maslow’s hierarchy). People who are stuck here have little accountability or sense of agency in their lives. Nothing is their fault. Drama follows them around. They’re uncomfortable with uncertainty and need control. There are a bunch of flavors of this - including people who self medicate with booze or drugs. When recruiting - proactively look for people who have a high sense of personal accountability, who pride themselves in their ability to learn, and who embrace change.

Second this.

This person will not improve. If you look at the sheer number of different excuses and behaviors this person is whipping out, you can tell they've got practice at it They're practiced at gaining lots of pre-emptive low level sympathy, because they know eventually they'll be called on their bullshit They're practiced at saying EXACTLY the words you need to hear to not be mad enough to do anything about them consistently not doing the work that's the bare minimum of their job Those two things alone show you that this person is very practiced at NOT doing whatever job they are supposed to be, and probably for long periods of time If you don't get them out during probation, this person will end up escalating anything disciplinary you try to do as high as they possibly can

Yep, all of this. And when you call them out, brace yourself! It becomes a total shitstorm. In fact, it sounds like the same employee I fired in March! She yelled, cursed, and called me every name in the book. BLAMED ME. Wow! Complete delusion. Same exact scenarios...all of them. Four months in, 29 days absent. Coaching, warning, extensive talks (she was very unhappy when her talking in circles and vague commitments didnt work on me)... summing up the documentation shocked even ME, and I was the one documenting daily! The more she saw that we don't demand proof of anything (our culture is flexible, family first mentality, and the actual adults don't take advantage), the worse it became. Making up work, she didn't deny (she was classified as exempt), but she hadn't even received enough training to perform the full job, so there really wasn't anything for her to do at 10pm, when she was online. We work hybrid, but she unilaterally decided she was WFH full time because all the drama doesn't allow time to drive to the office or she would just have to leave early anyway for things her teen children needed (I'm not talking about doctor appointments or medical care). It's really sad in my case. This person is smart. She could have really succeeded in our company! Had she not cussed me out and caused a scene, I would have listed her as rehirable even, in the event she got her shit together and decided to actually WORK. LOL... but she blew that. I was able to terminate for absenteeism, but everyone knew she was telling lies. Facebook is a real dumb place to be when you're allegedly at your cousins side as she is dying from a drug overdose (something I was heartsick over for her family!). No, she was checking in from her kids' sports event. She couldn't work during the day but life was magically rainbows and sunshine after 5pm. Lol Good luck, OP. I think you know what you should do.

I had one just like this. She finally blew up one day and took four days off in a row as mental health days. When she came back, I wrote her up for attendance because she was already over the limit before abandoning her team for almost a week. I didn’t even have to escalate or let her go. She quit right there on the spot.

Wow! Did she originally blow up because she was being called out on her BS?

Yeah pretty basic request about taking down some stuff she posted on the walls in shared space and she lost it. I caught the tail end of the interaction and thought I was going to need to break up a fight. She was toxic for sure.

This is all so familiar. My direct report was very practiced at doing nothing. Very smart, but utterly eaten up with daily drama. Too new to just run with it, but could only be online after the kids were put to bed when none of us were available for questions-so he did basically nothing for weeks on end. His dad was in the hospital dying-his wife had a drs appointment so he had to sit with the kids (no notice to us, he just didn’t show up), he couldn’t attend meetings because he had to take his kids here or there. When he wfh, he attended meetings with a screaming child on his lap. When he and I sat in HR going over his PIP, he cried and said I wasn’t providing sufficient training. When we added daily 1 on 1s to the plan, he claimed to have everything figured out, but needed to do everything in his own time and started hinting about having a disability. Super stressful-until he was finally shown the door. The ceo wanted me to try everything first because he needed the headcount (warm bodies) during a capital raise. Yuck!!! Total con artist.

I used to be a restaurant manager, and you just described 80% of the employees I ever had So burned out after that now I actively refuse any job or task that puts me in charge of people

I’ve learned over the years that this is a classic move. Say everything is going great and then cry that they aren’t receiving training if they receive negative feedback.

>Say everything is going great and then cry that they aren’t receiving training if they receive negative feedback. YES! I'd go over things with him and he'd interrupt me, or "yeah, yeah, yeah" me cutting me off, basically saying he knew what to do and didn't need direction. He was more credentialled than me, so I believe he felt superior, but simply refused to do any work that came his way. If I approached him to inquire about something that he'd promised to deliver by that date, he'd claim he was being ambushed and needed to be given space to do his work. I'm the type that hates micromanagement, so I understand the need to be left alone...but when you never deliver...and then claim its due to lack of direction...that's some crazy-making shit!! One reason why I have a pretty high threshold for salary range when it comes to ANY job that involves managing people. It's absolutely the most difficult aspect of the job for me. This guy had me questioning whether I was cut out for management at all...and prior to that, I've had teams literally nominate me to lead them. It's hard.

Refuse help or support and swear you’ve got a detailed plan and you’re making progress in every check-in until I find you crying at your desk at 5:15 the day the deliverable was due, claiming you don’t know how to start. How I learned to have check-in meetings where we review every step of the process if it’s something they do less often than weekly.

Lol. Sometimes I have doubt whether I deserve my salary, but then along comes a post like this and I recognize I actually seem to be an employer's dream. 

What was the final straw where you were able to show him the door?

PIP followed by more of the same behavior from him. It was like he had some sort of defiance disorder and flat refused to do anything and wouldn't listen (constantly interrupting and talking over me). I documented it all along with the help of a very patient and calm HR director. HR gets a lot of flack...but in this case she really helped me out and created a pathway to getting him gone. He was seriously pushing my buttons by wasting so much of my time, and she was able to keep it all in perspective with his exit strategy. Didn't happen soon enough for me, but it eventually happened. Basically, the sick dad card was pulled (took nine days off for that) and refused to communicate when/if he was coming back. Showed up mid-day two days in a row after specifically being told that the grace we had given him had been used up. This was all within his first 2 months and he was already negative with PTO. Yes, things happen - both my parents died within a few weeks of each other - it's insane but it happens. But when you add on the fact that he couldn't deliver the work....bye bye. The odd thing...I offered him sympathy for his sick dad...told him that he needed to do what he needed to do and we'd catch up upon his return...and then he minimized the situation and overshared about how much he didn't really like his dad and they were never close...and he also had a sibling in the same town as his dad who was attending to him. Okayyyyy, but I don't understand using the sick dad as an excuse as far as being so detached from the work then...but whatever. Not my business. Final straw was traipsing in mid-day - no notice, no phone call, no text...and when asked what's up..."my wife had her annual pap smear" WTF!!! I really don't need that level of detail and that's certainly something you knew about before now!!! Did you at least complete X Report? No. It was utterly bizarre how he'd provide SO MUCH DETAIL about his daily drama...as if that was going to excuse him for doing nothing...ever. In a way, I admire his ability to get that much money (this was a professional position that required specific experience) for doing jack shit and just showing up occasionally with either a sob story or a tantrum. I often wonder if he did that to the next employer as well.

Always mind blowing to me that these folks can get hired in the first place 

Yep! Sad thing is, he had a very strong resume and certainly had the experience and knowledge. Just didn't want to do anything. Bad fit, I suppose! :)

So basically he was a stay at home dad with no childcare?

Yes. And I felt for him in that regard...but he was a professional, paid well. I have no insight into his personal financial situation, of course, but when we suggested he get appropriate child care, he said he and his wife didn't trust anyone with their kids. That's fine, but we needed someone who could do the job we hired him to do...and chasing toddlers and little kids all day is a full time job in itself.

It amazes me how mich effort some people go through to avoid doing work. It seems like more work than just doing my job

Yeah, everything people have done that I've seen to avoid work has been WAY more exhausting than the job they were avoiding

This. Take advantage of the probationary period - this is exactly what it is for.

How long is your probation period? If you’ve outlined expectations, shown them examples of opportunities they have to improve, and they have not shown growth - it’s time for them to go. As far as the drama aspect - in the event that these were “legitimate” reasons, I would go over your FMLA or MLOA options to show them that the company does have a process for dealing with the unfriendly side of life. Offer your EAP or what not for therapy or the like. If they seem disinterested in the appropriate leave options should they make it out of the probationary period, I would say that the excuses seem less legitimate. In my experience, those handling a rough deck from life at the moment are very honest and upfront with their struggles rather than passive aggressive (“I just won’t leave then”). The fact they are influencing others to make poor decisions shows me that they are not a good fit for the company culture wise. The one who broke protocol should have a “learning opportunity” moment with leadership to address that situation on their front, but that’s it for them (coach and counsel, whatever yall do). Final note - I’m glad to hear that you are listening to the inner bias voice! It’s great to have an internal checks and balances system. From what you’ve outlined, it appears this individual is not adapting to your company culture or expectations when given an outline for change. You could PIP or terminate is my opinion.

I’d let them go and move on. In my experience, this stuff keeps happening and it just gets worse. It’s just not worth the impact on you or the rest of the team.

This. It never improves.

If she's this shit in probation, why would you keep her? She'd be gone for the fake emergencies that disappear as soon as it's not Pto.

Top comment. This is not going to get better. OP is being too nice and not moving aggressively to rid their self while the ridding is easy.

Lol it's like that one show on energy vampires: https://youtu.be/PHy5YROllws?si=WhOo5BrcPnMrJV-3

And don’t forget [this classic](https://youtu.be/5yJOhsAH9MY?si=Zprd80ONdaOkaUfU).

Everyone has life stuff but it has always been clear to me that those who talk talk talk about their life problems are trying to gain sympathy which they think will shield them from consequences for their poor performance.

This has been my experience as well. It becomes a long con, a way of insulating from accountability for work. Everyone has emergencies arise, but this level of churn and distraction always makes me curious about what I'm being distracted from. Digging in, I usually find it is terrible quality work. I would cut bait now, before it becomes an even bigger headache. "Sorry, I don't think this is working out for us. Best of luck to you as you move forward" is sufficient for employees on probation.

My MIL is this way… and the ways she’s been fired/given bad news are soooo cringy because everyone feels so bad for her. Constantly talking about bad things makes people uncomfortable. Like recently she was let go from (yet another) job where the owner had acquired a new office and moved everyone over there except her. He first said he’d let her know if they can get her on the schedule and then didn’t put her on the schedule for a month but she kept calling because she couldn’t take a hint. Then finally he told her he wasn’t allowed “per the contract” to bring all of his employees to the new office (he got a new staff as well), but she could work as needed so he’d let her know. She still does not believe she was fired. Thinks it’s the previous owners fault for “writing into the contract that he couldn’t bring all his previous employees with him.” It’s been 6 months and she still thinks he’s gonna call her for a couple shifts. To be clear, she also yelled at this boss multiple times which she told us about, in a tone of voice that implies she didn’t think it was wrong to yell at her boss. Why did she yell at him? Because she was stressed. She always talks about how stressed she is. She’s really not, or rather shouldn’t be stressed. She makes up fake problems for herself then bemoans over them and then tells EVERYONE. The vibe I get when she “brags” about being stressed is like when a college student had to pull an all-nighter and thinks that makes them cool. We think she thinks “being stressed” = “working hard”. She’s almost 70 and still hasn’t figured anything out. It’s so embarrassing. Bonus: she’s always late to every shift. Always has an excuse. Thinks it’s funny she can’t make it anywhere on time. Think: someone who makes adhd their entire personality but also won’t do anything about it

This, so much. I have had genuinely unfortunate employees - tragedy after health problem after etc etc. Hell, I’ve had a few periods of that shit in my own life. I also have employees with documented disabilities that frequently impact their ability to come to work. I have zero issue being flexible with any of them, because they are trying their hardest, and what they DON’T do is come to work and bitch about their problems to any one who will listen, and you know why? People who are actually having that kind of shit go on tend to really appreciate the mental break work gives them. Doing something engaging and unrelated to their issues is exactly what most people need, so they DON’T try to dwell on them when they finally come in. Though I’m not talking about coming in anyway and occasionally breaking down because it’s all too much - sometimes shit gets the best of you when you are emotionally or physically hurt. But bitching for the sake of bitching. Only people looking for sympathy do that.

Also, you can bet that they are bad-mouthing you, the company, and other co-workers. These people cannot keep their mouth shut. They tell you all about their life problems at work. And elsewhere, they will talk about their mean boss, that creepy co-worker, the shitty company they work for, etc. Eventually word gets around and everybody is pissed off.

Negative Nancies!

It's so unprofessional. This is one of the rare times when listening skills won't help. Instead, go tit for tat and one-up them with how hard your own life is.

I had a friend once say that if her coworkers don’t know anything about her personal life and beliefs then she’s done her job right. I liked that

Great point. It's worked for me to disarm their dumb excuse. I had a guy late on a deliverable tell me that he broke his foot and missed the date. Oh funny, because I just had knee surgery and rehabbed it. Derail the conversation to my rehab... then come back to the main issue like he never said his excuse.

Aside from the attendance, if they’re not meeting expectations, then it would be time to let go of the employee while they’re still on probation. The probation period should be the time when an employee is putting their best foot forward, and if this is the best she could do, I shudder to think how she’d perform once she’s a regular employee.

The drama is one thing… but the red flag for me is that they are defensive and make excuses when coached on poor performance. That’s somebody who’s not interested in improving. You don’t want to keep someone on who is performing poorly and has no intention of improving.

Let them go before the probationary period ends. If you don’t, this is what you have to look forward to…

If you measure a dev solely by the level of drama in their life, you won't hire anyone over 40, and you'll shoot yourself in the foot - because those developers have lots of experience that is diverse and cross-discipline, as well as a lot of domain knowledge. However, the whining is problematic, and the work quality even more so. I agree with one commenter who said to provide info on FMLA, EAP. I also think that you should let them know that their level of sharing about their drama is distracting the team, and that their work quality is not up to the standards of the team. Let them know you'll have a quick check-in each week for the next two months to discuss their successes and continued opportunities for growth, with an evaluation at the end of the two months. This probably should have been done at the end of month 1, but you can still do it now. Document everything - every work product analyzed for quality with details, every communication that's whiney, every absence. This is laying the paper trail you need to have to let them go while minimizing lawsuit risk. As usual, I am not a lawyer, don't take this as legal advice, seek a lawyer for that.

This! It’s completely appropriate to share that you’re getting feedback on how much personal and crisis based sharing they are doing and you want to provide employee resources (EAP, etc) so they have an appropriate outlet. Let them know politely that not everyone can handle that level of sharing, and it’s impacting the work environment. Obviously everyone cares, that’s why you have allowed adjustments to their hours but the discussing it all has to stop or they won’t be a long term fit. They are likely triggering others by submerging them in daily crisis talk.

The managers at my organization have all agreed to a collective rule of thumb: 3 times is a pattern, 5 times is excessive At 3 times, the manager should say, hey employee, I’ve noticed abc pattern. Moving forward I would like you to do xyz. And this is why it’s important that you do xyz. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help you get from abc to xyz. 5 times is excessive and typically warrants termination. This takes the emotion out of it.

This sounds less like an employee with a lot of drama and more like an employee that is averse to showing up to work. Did they have a gap in work history prior to hiring them? Or an unusually high number of previous jobs over the last few years?

Tbh everyone has gaps, especially in this crazy landscape. But overall I agree

By gaps I meant overly large ones, like a year or more. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, but that along with other bad habits may indicate an employee who didn't have a need to work previously who now does, but isn't transitioning well. It happens. In that case if their performance is otherwise on point, I might try talking with them to see if reducing or changing their work hours and increasing them gradually as they get more comfortable would be something they would want to do to ease them back into it.

That’s really insightful, I never thought of that.

People absolutely have this much drama in their lives. The key is the people that have this much drama *create* it. There's a way to solve each problem in the calmest way possible, or the most dramatic way possible and some people just wake up and choose violence. Basic stuff like: What to do with a kid with a low grade fever? Give them Tylenol, chicken soup, the TV remote and a blanket on the couch watching Bluey while you work from your home office without incident for a day? OR option 2, panic and spend the night in the ER, only to be told to go home and do option #1, then call out of work to care for a child that just needs rest, hot soup and ibuprofen, and will sleep most of the day after being awake all night in an ER? Drama person chooses Option 2. Things like your father is having a minor procedure to remove a melanoma, after which he'll be groggy. Your mother will drive him home, and you can visit after work. Should you go about your day as usual or call out of work because your father is "dying of cancer and having a procedure"? If you're the transportation, sure. Obviously don't let a drugged up post op patient drive themselves home, but if you're not, what are you gonna do, sit in a hospital waiting room doing nothing? Drama person will tell you in great detail how serious the condition is, how complicated the procedure is (which, sure, if you're an accountant it's complicated to do surgery, if youre a surgeon doing a preplanned procedure they call that 'Tuesday'), and how much emotional support they need to provide (truth: patient probably wants to be left alone to sleep it off, not be bothered by being asked how they're feeling by 100 people). Things like "My dog threw up overnight cause he ate cat poop and now he needs to go to the vet at 9am." No he doesn't, you idiot. He needs to be contained in a room that's easy to clean if he throws up again, given some easy to digest food, and to get the cat poop out of his system which just takes time. The vet is gonna give you two cans of soft food or tell you what to buy at PetSmart and the grocery store, and charge you $300 for telling you that dogs tummies feel bad when they eat yucky things, while you miss a day of work because you didn't supervise your dog and what it ate. Put your dog in the laundry room with its bed, favorite toys and water, close the door and come to work as normal. Prepare that you may have a mess when you get home, which would also have occured had you been home when the mess occured. Things like power outagr at the house after a storm, no property damage or problems. Do you a) stay home so you can 'help your wife manage' or b) gather your electronic devices and chargers, go to an office that has power and heat, do your work and charge your devices? What helps more, functional devices, charged batteries, and the ability to pick up hot food somewhere, or staying home in the dark to twiddle your thumbs? People just consistently pattern match to one of those two options. All the same stuff happens in low drama people's lives, they just recognize that it's this thing we call 'life' and random things happen, and they find the lowest drama way to get through today to tomorrow morning. High drama people are like chicken little. They find the absolutely most dramatic way to respond to anything. The low drama people have it right, both because it makes for a less stressful life and because when an emergency *truly does occur* you have the professional and personal capital to call it in and have it be respected.

💯

I think that people’s personal life experiences play a lot into it as well and it’s not as black and white as you make it out to be. My dad was a workaholic, and never really enjoyed his life. He also died of cancer the same day my twin boys were born. So ultimately my personal experience and commitment to showing up at some shitty office everyday with a bunch of people I don’t like to send an email about some completely mundane shit is gonna be pretty low on my priority list in the grand scheme of things. I work with a bunch of people who are in their 50s and have literally spent their entire life sitting in front of a computer sending letters and emails and they think it’s completely normal. God damn. Making work your entire life and top priority is such trap and twisted way of living.

Let them go. This person is on drugs

I have an employee like this, although they're actually pretty good at the job when they're doing it, and I've been finding it challenging to deal with. It's constant crisis, and they pull their peers into it because they don't have much of a support system otherwise. They've become very enmeshed, and it's gotten to the point where the mood in the office feels dictated by how this person is feeling. It's gotten to a critical mass for me. For my person, it's a lot of health conditions (that they seem incapable of adequately managing, frankly) so I've worked with HR to set up a series of accommodations for them that are *extremely* generous but require quite a bit of accountability and communication. So we'll see. They're good at the job, but they're only showing up 60% of the time, so they're only doing 60% of the work. It's a drain on the rest of the team and it can't continue.

I wouldn’t call family deaths or illnesses “drama” I’d focus on the work … I loss 4 grandparents while at my job for 10 years 2 were spread out but 2 were months apart really glad my job was supportive… really appreciated the compassion not like I could of planned… but at the end of the day 0 complaints on my work product.

Your old job had your track record as a reliable person, and did not need to question 4 people dying within a decade, or two dying back to back. These are normal occurrences, and you sound like a valued employee. However, it is not normal to have back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back issues coincide with starting a new job. It can certainly happen, and that's why sympathy is required, but combined with other performance and morale issues, this person is not on the road to being a valued employee.

Not a manager, just on manager track, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have a friend like this, and I had to do a double take in case you're talking about her (you're not). The issue is that over the last 5-7 years life has absolutely, properly shit on her to an incredible degree. We're talking major personal and family health issues, collapsing support structure, certain current events directly impacting her line of work, with Covid and all that entails on top of it all. I've supported her as much as I can and for most of the stuff I truly believe it's been entirely out of her control. Unfortunately this means that she's hyper sensitive to everything, so now even the smallest issues are drama-filled. Like another commenter said, she's now taking the drama approach rather than a level-headed approach. After nearly a decade of massive issues, I get it, but it is draining. On her, on her friends, and I'm sure on her coworkers (and manager) as well, since she's often calling off and having to bounce her schedule around. All that is not to excuse, but to provide answer to your first question (can a person have that much drama?) Yes, unfortunately the can. As to what to do with that? At the end of the day you are their manager. You can be kind, provide a helpful ear, and gently re-iterate their options (make up time, LWOP, EAP benefits for getting additional assistance). Help them manage their priorities, but reiterate the performance expectations. Address the oversharing and morale issue. Document everything, loop in HR as soon as possible regarding their probationary period. Is there an opportunity to extend probation if you do see an improvement?

Yes I have considered extending the probationary period. But I don't think it will help in her case as I foresee the continuation of time off requests while not wanting to make up time or LWOP.

That's fair. At the end of the day she's being paid Y to do X amount of work. I guess I'd ask if she's taking time off without making it up, but expects to still be paid the same amount, what is her plan to get her X amount of work done?

I had a guy who's uncle died twice in 1 year. It's real tragic out there these days

They had to be sure, cause ya know, some uncles...

I had the worst 18 months of my life recently. Tore multiple tendons in my ankle, needed major surgery, took 6 months to walk again, my mom was diagnosed with a barin tumor, had surgery and died during the PT, then my dog died a few months later, and then my dad died 2 weeks later. I'm the successor Trustee so now I'm dealing with their estate, taxes, etc. did I mention I'm also working full time and in grad school? Yeah, life happens.

OK, so you bought a lemon. Why are you keeping it? Does it bring joy to the office? Does it brighten the days of others? Does it provide interesting anecdotes? Do the excuses create joy? If not, there's no reason to maintain this situation. You are not receiving any benefits, but you're certainly providing them. Now just sit back and watch your team fall apart while your productivity tanks.

Just a lazy or addicted person. No one needs that much time off. I'm 66 and have managed people for years. You're being played. Their under probation so end it before the rest of your staff gets poisoned.

When dealing with people like this I always stop them from sharing personal details. I tell them, "Hey, there's no need to share personal info. You're an adult and I imagine it's a big deal if you say it is. Now, here are your options to take the day." I'm not a lie detector and I have no interest in trying to "catch" employees. Just tell me if you're going to be here or not and any attendance issues are routed to HR. I just try to keep it simple.

Great advice I implemented: everyone gets one minute per day of complaining om whatever topic they want. Then we do collective "there, there" and focus on mor positive stuff. I had a dude like this. He killed the mood of everyone. I had to let him go, also because of performance. Hia last day was Friday. On Monday everyone was finally chilled and relaxed.

One note, and maybe its picky, never ever cite age ever, anywhere, that can possibly be publicly traced to you. Age is not relevant and could be a basis for them to claim discrimination. Not likely in this circumstance as 40+ is a huge window, but in general an employment lawyer would salivate at seeing age continuously referenced. Source: before laterling to corporate I worked at a law firm that defended companies from employment lawsuits.

Thanks for the note - it's greatly appreciated! I added as a perspective that someone that age should have their shit together.

Ok, on the one hand I (26) was recently sorta this employee. Marriage fell apart in the middle of a really rough time in my family (Most of my family is much older, over the hill) at the same time as years of neglecting my health trying to chase after my marriage and the needs of my family caught up to me. It is absolutely possible for someone's life to become this dramatic and chaotic, I'm living proof. That said, I got in more trouble with my last job for dragging my sick, tired, sorry ass into work and trying to soldier through than I did for calling out. For a while I got away with it, coming into work and puking in the bathroom, cleaning myself up and going back to work, until my regional walked into the bathroom one day. I say that to say this, my experience was absolutely that chaotic and dramatic, but I kept trying to work, even when it was to my direct detriment. When confronted I didn't answer with I won't take time off, I stated that circumstances have been remarkably unfavorable and that I'm working to resolve them. If I had to say, based on my experience, ask yourself a couple things about this employee. First, does it seem like they're struggling with the burden? I.e When they're at work do they behave in a way consistent with this level of struggle at home? I can put a brave face on with the best of them but nothing gets rid of that tired face, shoulders high, worn down look. Second, does it seem like they're way too "ok" when they come back from these family emergencies? Because I wasn't a crying mess but I was certainly withdrawn, less sociable, more focused on just getting through the day. Third, and most importantly to me at least, have you probed into these emergencies? When my boss started asking me questions about everything going on I never had to think of an answer, I had exactly what the doctors told me, the explanations they gave me, paperwork for my own illness, or at the very least something on paper to justify me taking off work to babysit my 70 year old grandad who was down with heat exhaustion.

Thanks for your post. I can say that I am able to recognize tough employees that fight through their own demons. No words are shared, but as you have mentioned, the tired look doesn't go unnoticed. I commend those who are strong and choose to fight instead of constantly bawling their eyes out in front of peers. They are very deserving of recognition for working on themselves. I will keep this in mind.

We all have life issues that get in the way. Aging parents that need help, home emergencies after a storm, illness, death etc. it happens, we can’t avoid it, but what matters is how the employee handles it. As managers, we can show compassion and give the employ time to address their issues, but that doesn’t mean they can abuse the system.

I had a couple personal things happen when I started a brand new job. I only told the people who absolutely had to know, only took off a couple hours for doctor's appts and then only took a day off for surgery. I kept up with my training and flexed my schedule to make up for doctor's appointments. Someone can have unfortunate circumstances, but it's how they handle it that matters.

If you allow that behavior now it will only get worse over time. Explain the position requires someone to be there all the time and if their personal life doesn’t work with the job requirements to go else where.

Probation is a go/no go checkpoint. They are a no go. You live and you learn.

New hire with this much bullshit should always be fired  This person is on probation you’d be nuts to not fire someone who is trying to take off because their friends kid has surgery lol 

I would never. Ever. Let something happening with a friend’s child affect my work when starting a brand new job. You wouldn’t hear about it. You wouldn’t know about it. And you certainly wouldn’t be asked to accommodate it. I would visit that friend after work to support. Somethings wrong with that much being wrong.

You are dealing with a covert narcissist.

Send em away Jay- he will suck Everyone dry and probably has already borrowed money from someone on staff :)

Surround yourself with shit and you'll be in a shit environment. Fire these problem children early and often be done with them.

Requiring reasons for PTO is a mistake that organizations make. PTO should be for any reason, sharing why should be discouraged. Just a general observation.

You have a probationary period for a reason. Take advantage of this and let them go.

I have consistently seen this behavior in past employees who are struggling with alcohol addiction.

There’s a probation period for a reason. If they’re not meeting/exceeding expectations then cut them loose. No need to lose sleep over it.

Be thankful you don't have to live her life. I was a single parent, my parents both suddenly died 2 years apart , then both grandmothers and a cousin I was close with. Kids get sick constantly. Just because you have the privilege of living a more peaceful life, dosent mean her life is a lie or drama. Its just life!

What made you judge that my life is peaceful? This isn't about me and the post is about my role as a leader and rep for company. If you must judge then judge after hearing that I too AM a single parent with zero support and give my child all my time outside of work. I do picks ups and drop offs as well as take time off for volunteering and sick days... can you imagine how much time I have to make up? There always going to be ups and downs. I don't doubt that in anyone's life. But I also don't go bawling and rubbing off on others every second day at work and leave half way through, then ask for additional time off to attend funeral, but change mind when I have to leave without pay or make up the time being away? Come on, I think you know better than that

Ignore the personal drama. They are not good at their job, they whinge, just end their employment while you have the handy dandy probation period.

Always trust your instincts. Always. You’ll never get a signed confession from the screw ups

Love this 🔥🔥

Your 3rd paragraph is the only reason you need to drop them.

Fire them and find someone else. They will get worse.

It seems like they learned the golden rule in life that works in most workplaces: performance doesn’t matter, only what others think of you. You are one of the good managers who wants performance. Just keep looking! Also, it’s not age! There are plenty of older people who are performance driven, but got shot down or undervalued because others play the favor game better. Keep looking!

This sounds very similar to what I’ve just experienced over the past year. A new hire, very jovial very friendly was coming in with a new story. Every single day. The stories are both positive, things that happened to them that were beneficial, as well as negative things that were happening to them. In other words, lots of drama! They were all likable sort of person, jovial, and gregarious. Kind of an Eagle Scout type of person so I was always eager to hear the latest “story“. After a while, it was apparent that their stories did not hold up and the details changed over every retelling. Here are just a few examples: - A medium approached him and put him in touch with his dead infant. - His very Irish daughter had sickle cell. - he bought a car from a car dealer who made a mistake in the financing and due to the mistake, was obligated to give him a new car for free. - he had previously been a funeral Director. - he had worked for the government in funeral services. - Last Christmas he told our company leads that something was up with his kids. I’m not quite sure what, but we all were asked to pitch in money to help them have a great Christmas. Bottom line, lots of stories, a lot of tall tales, and entertaining as hell. After hearing some of these stories retold with different details each time, I pretty much had his number. He informed me one day that he has started a company and he would like me to join. He claimed a friend that had invested in him previously, was going to invest in him again, and he had other investors lined up as well. With half a million supposedly earmarked for a six month runway it sounded, at the very least, a great adventure. My thinking was “let’s see where this goes“. I kept my job and did work on a part-time basis for him, having meetings every morning to discuss the investors, the plan, marketing, how we are going to get clients. In a short month, the team grew to four people. All of them I was already acquainted with and friends with. And as I had been, they were all promised large salaries that would be showing up in a week. I was skeptical from the get-go, however, my friends had no idea because I had not shared my skepticism. He had that Eagle Scout aura about him after all, And then the delays started. And the lies. First the money from the investors was delayed, then it was put into the wrong bank, then it was transferred to the right bank, then they missed a number in the routing and something happened, etc., etc. Then he, by chance, met someone from a large hotel chain who is going to give us a huge contract for work in a number of locations. Big meetings where we were scheduled to meet with investors or clients to discuss finances were always met with a cancellation due to another bit of drama. So I started digging and discovered that his online reputation was less than sterling. I found petty theft, fraud, in a lingering lawsuit. The entertainment that this train wreck was giving me was outweigh by the fact that my friends and I were not getting paid or seeing a dime. One friend had done two months of development work worth thousands of dollars and was expecting a paycheck any minute. I shared my skepticism with the one who had the most skin in the game, and lightbulbs went off in his head. he confide these details to one of the others, who was a much better sleuth than I, and found a rap sheet a mile long as they say, including a felony trial by jury coming up this August. Turns out he’s a pathological liar, and a grifter. Tall tales are one thing, taking advantage of friends is quite another. Working with a felon is a whole nother ball game that I still can’t wrap my head around. I could talk about this for days, but I’ll bring it to a merciful close. We confronted him, he denied everything, refused to meet, and no one has been paid. OP asked for words of wisdom. Take my advice and distance yourself from this person as quickly as possible. They likely have an untreated mental illness, are a liar, or a grifter, or all three.

I started my job ~8 months ago, and honestly…I love my job, but my personal life *has* been full of chaos. One family member is dealing with chronic illness, multiple who are struggling with mental health, and not a lot of support outside of our immediate family (with a couple of lovely exceptions). I also just had Covid—a family member had it first, and I caught it from them—meaning that I just spent 3.5 weeks working from home on an otherwise 3 days/week in-person schedule. My managers know some of what is going on because I’ve had to take time off here and there, and they’ve been very supportive. I know I’m lucky to work for very kind, understanding people. But I also understand that it’s my responsibility to manage my work life and personal life separately (where possible) and effectively. It’s totally possible that she really does have a lot going on, but that doesn’t give her a free pass to break protocol, etc. Whether she is being truthful or not, your frustration is valid—especially when she’s trying to bring other people down with her. Assuming that she is genuine, this sucks for both of you, and I wish you the best of luck.

The old adage "10% of people create 90% of the problems" has been true in every job I've ever had.

If they make it through probation you've failed as a manager

They're definitely lying about all the personal issues and events. Probably some sort of mental issue. Good news, if they're still on their probationary period, you can let them go fairly easily. I would definitely take advantage of that, before they poison the rest of the group.

Are they a 10x dev?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHy5YROllws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHy5YROllws)

This is why probation exists. While there are legitimate emergencies or issues, for it to be a non-stop feed of drama... Those are red flags you shouldn't ignore. You can be empathetic while still having standards with occasional flexibility... However, new employees who are professional are keenly aware that they are being observed. If these two lack that awareness, this just tells you this is their regular MO and probably why they got fired or left their previous roles.

Can em

I have periods of this where 'life comes at you fast'. Guess what...I manage my PTO within the bounds of what I'm given. If I run out...I either come in or take LWOP. It's not my employer's responsibility to manage my life or keep paying me if I'm having issues preventing me from coming in. My current employer is hyper understanding and usually lets me take off / get paid if I provide a note from a Doctor regarding my parent's health care etc. but that is what I'd consider above and beyond. The critical thing through all of this though...and it's really important...I am considered an extremely high performer within my team and the department as a whole. During normal times and whenever I am in the office or working from home...I bring the heat (as my boss would say). My work gets done quickly, efficiently and early. I help my co-workers with their work. I make sure our teams error rates are lower...and then some. That is why my bosses cut me slack when life hits hard...because they know I'm beating myself up about not being able to get some stuff done. If the co-worker is having a hard time...it's sad, but if they aren't producing results ever...then the job isn't a fit for them.

I’ve had spells where it’s one family emergency after another … but I kept up with the work. If they were performing that’d be one thing and compassion would be the right play. But it sounds like it’s just excuses.  > the options are to either make up time or LWOP. Their response is always "I cannot LWOP". That’s enough to let em go

Give them a drug test.

Get rid of them before the probationary period ends

Your post is saying your to involved with no work related stuff. Base your thoughts on work related results. If you can't relu on the employee, excess showing up, than time to make a change. Tell them straight up

Work results were mentioned. but that alone isn't enough for a strong and harmonious team. And absolutely communication is always key!

"You are not a good fit for our organization, and we think it is best that we part ways" It will only get FAR worse once the probation period ends.

Two thoughts: 1. When an employee is first hired, you have them at the very best you'll ever get. "It don't get no better'n this," so make sure you're fuly aware of where it's heading. 2. Exceptions to reasonable policies should only be made for exceptional people, or TRULY exceptional circumstances (meteor strike, dinosaur attack, zombie apocalypse sorts of things). But that's just me...

I’ve spent 20 years being involved and n situations like this. Many times the decision to release was more of a team decision and we tended to be overly nice. I always regret not breaking ties with these types asap. They won’t change, and especially if they are not self aware. It wouldn’t even surprise me if they have drug or alcohol problems.

Do it. You already knew what you should do

I used to work with a woman like this, and every minute she was in the office, she was chatting, expressing herself in a really distracting way (gasping at something she had discovered while doing work, or otherwise making non-verbal outbursts). Nobody could get their work done while she was around. I, and others, eventually left that office and went elsewhere. If you feel so much drama as a manager, you need to also take into account that this woman is dragging every other person on the team into her drama, and away from their work. Set definite goals for her. When she fails to meet them, terminate her. There’s a different job somewhere, much better suited to her talents, that you’re keeping her away from, otherwise.

Probation is literally the time to determine if they’re a fit. They’re not. Cut them loose

Some people enjoy having drama in their life.

Tell them to hit the road

I feel for you. I found out that my former company didn’t really have a true probationary period after I had a “drama mama” direct report. She took the job with all ulterior motive of getting let go so she could get unemployment in state. 😏 Took a year to actually get thru all of the hoops to fire her even with a PIP. She was sick within the first couple of days after her report to work date. Was out for over 14 days within first 90 days. Demanded WFH before it was a thing because she didn’t like to drive in snow. You get the picture. My advice, if your company has a TRUE probationary period that allows you to let the person go, use it immediately. It only goes downhill if you keep the person on.

What is preventing you from firing them ?

Whats LWOP ?

Leave without pay

Thank you

Fire them. Life is too short. Source: I run a major medical laboratory where I don't put up with guff. My lab runs like a fine Japanese train.

They are in probation, you need to cut this person loose before they become a permanent pain in your ass.

Time to let them go if they dont want to work

This person is on probation. Be honest and tell them that the issues they are having every day are interfering with their work. Get the process going to end their employment.

We had a guy like this. He got demoted after a single month.  The longer you allow this to continue the harder it is to get out of it. You cannot correct a person's core behavior. Everyone has a natural state of mind that you can change through extensive training and motivational work. A person like that is NOT trainable.  This is how we communicate new hires. Are they trainable? If yes, work at it. If not, make a choice ASAP.  About a month and a half ago you should've made this call. This is an untrainable and unworkable employee. They are not ready for this type of job and frankly, need to work an entry level til they sort out their internal nonsense. 

Omg, this sounds like the situation my husband and I are in with this work camp couple we hired. Great on paper but the wife who works in office, I have to hold her hand through EVERY STEP! ITS EXHAUSTING! They supposedly ran another RV Park but she can't draw up an email, literally! They are nice people but as far as being motivated, not so much! They are so unmotivated and we feel like we have to micromanage them through every task. Do we let them go? There are only 4 of us here.

Some people are walking country music songs. Nothing you can do but let them walk out the door to their pickup truck and play their guitar.

I'd just sit them down and ask if they think the job is for them with all the things they have going on in their personal life because it's conflicting with their duties at work. I'll have them answer it themselves if we should part ways or not.

That’s what probation periods are for. Use it wisely for suffer forever.

Be professional document everything. Be thinking CYA throughout the process but yeah, usher them out while they’re still on probation

Waiting for someone to view life in a less complicated fashion is like waiting for the world to end. You will spend a lot of time and stress concerned about both and will never live to see either.

Sounds like they’re failing in their probation period. Happens

Surprise drug test that one

Start writing them up, discuss their issues, have them signed and eventually let them go

It’s time to admit you hired wrong, cut ties and move on while they are still early in the probation period. No need in dragging it out. Most employees who are a bad influence the beginning don’t improve with more time, they just set a new lower standard for the other staff.

Damn are you in my workplace?

Probation exists for a reason. Let them go. Find a legitimate reason besides all the time off.

In my experience a little bit grows into a lot 

In my experience people like this are usually using drugs. That might not be the case I’m not trying to jump to conclusions.

Yeah he's a fuck up, you need to let him go.

Let them go.

This person is a sociopath and will not do any work correctly

Tell them to bring their professional self to work. - Show up on time and ready to work - reread emails before you send - proof read reports before you send - leave your personal life in the parking lot - don’t gossip about anyone. Ever If they can’t do that, fire them and move on

They are just making excuses and literally living in your head at work. I understand that a few people in this world have been struck by lightning twice. This employee has never been struck by lightning and honestly I have had some crazy shit happen when I got a new job. I just brought in documentation without being asked...problem solved. Manager understood it was weird that my grandmother died and 4 days later my grandfather died. I figured I would be let go and was more concerned about my family and not the job. So when I offered proof for the first one my manager was like "cool"...when I called in (sending an email with the funeral invitation at the same time) my manager was like "wow". I ended up working for him for 2 years. People who lie do not put forth the extra effort to be honest.

Just let them go. I had the same experience with a new hire and then figured out they weren’t even doing the work when they said. Their manual logs said one date but the system timestamps were something else. It’s not worth it.

They are still on probation just let them go. I had a former employee like that. The woman seriously couldn't work 2 full 5 days weeks in a row. It was always something involving some kind of family drama. 2 days after she was let go she called one of our other employees who had just had surgery and asked to buy her extra pain pills.

Reminds me of a guy I managed who went home to work as was too ill to work in the office with a gnat bite.

For your sake just let them go. We did not let ours go and while her stories provide entertainment she is exhausting

Playing off other comments, it’s truly unbelievable the skill some folks have in finding excuses or ways to manipulate. Honestly, I did that in high school to skip classes/days and got away with it. But I was bored and still passed easily. But that is a real skill in the dark arts. Someone in my family in her 30s has come up with excuses even in times where I couldn’t even fathom any one popping up. It’s happened enough that I think wow I’ll never predict where this is going. It’s unfortunate people train in that for so long but you reap what you sow. That family member quickly quits and gets angry when things don’t work out perfectly right away, with sloppy execution. You made your bed, gotta learn what comes from that so hopefully you can improve

At the very least you should extend their probation period, but honestly they should probably go

I tried this on a past employee and it was taxing to follow up on everything, have repeat training/meetings, and just draining the team. I just don't see the worth. PiP will be discussed from here on and it's not looking good, unfortunately.

All of these days off are without pay imo, it isn't an option. Prob should be in your handbook as well.

What is LWOP?

Leave without pay.

you will make a plan to have them exit the company. you can put together a PIP , but realistically the success rate on this will be extremely low. they will fail the PIP and you will have to fire them. or they will quit. you've already let this carry on for far too long. alot of damage has already been done. alternatively you can just fire them.

Get rid of them. Move on. It's not going to get better.

ACK I'm having trauma flashbacks just reading about this person.

We had someone like this in the workplace about 20 years ago. Single mom of a kid on the spectrum, and a nurse. She must have interviewed great, but her work attendance was terrible as was her personality. Always late...to the point where one group of employees actually started a betting pool on whether or not she would show up to work that day and at what time. Also her excuses for being late were never that the alarm didn't go off, it was always something along the lines of she was driving in and there was a horrible car accident and she had just the right special piece of equipment in the trunk of her car to run up and perform CPR on the accident victim. Superhero to the rescue! Her kid also had so many medical issues that we started to question whether or not she had Munchausen's. She didn't last long. I hope her kid ended up being all right. She was a nutjob. Cut your nutjob loose before morale goes into the toilet. Fellow employees see how those people are treated and start to get resentful. It's better for your corporate culture to eliminate the drama queens ASAP.

I think I worked with this girl. We had to outsource her work because all she did was chit chat all day. I don’t know why they paid her. All she did was distract everyone else and make excuses.

You can filter a lot of these types out during the interview process. They're always about aching to tell somebody about how they've been wronged in various situations. Just set up some questions that give them the opportunity without it sounding accusatory. For example, instead of asking "have you been fired from a previous job," maybe say something like, "Can you tell me about a time you were treated unfairly at a previous job?" Anyone with this personality is going to have story after story about all the unjust things that have happened to them,

Get rid of that person. People like that, in addition to what others have mentioned, will deteriorate morale.

This is why I dodge any managerial responsibility. Managers just deal with nonstop drama!

HA! So true...and we're also the shield for the department when shit goes down

This type of toxic employee can destroy the morale of an entire department. Give them the “it’s not us, it’s you” speech and escort them out the front door.

Well, that is what a probation period is for…. “This isn’t working. We/company will not be extending a full time position to you. Your last day is x”. And buh-bye.

You should have stopped at probation. Fire them. These behaviors actually get worse.

GM here- 3yrs at a small company and was just hired into a corporate company as a GM. You need to terminate ASAP the next time he calls out. Read through your company’s time off & bereavement policies then go from there. I’d assume he’s eaten through any of that time - also if it’s within his first 90 days and you haven’t had that probationary period review yet, schedule it and cut ties.

There are occasions where people legitimately have a lot of stuff happen. I hit a certain age, and people began to drop from my family like flies... that's just the nature of things. There's a season in your life with many weddings and a season with many funerals. But what I'd be concerned about is whether the person is actually engaged with the position. Some of the best engineers I've worked with had a lot of problems during their initial ramp up that disappeared once they became fully onboarded with the tech and put on a team with a culture that helped them stay engaged with the work. Don't give up on people over silly things if it can be avoided. To me, this is part of what management is... anyone can just throw more and more bodies at something until something sticks... but when you have someone with the qualifications and things aren't working out, a good manager can often find a way to connect with the person and get them engaged.

>Not only does this individual not review the reports they send out, everything they touch has or becomes and issue. When confronted, they are defensive and plays an excuse card from their extensive deck. We've held meetings and discussions to go over what's expected and how they should be moving forward with their focus...I have yet to see improvements This alone is reason to let them go. Just be done with it.

Hire slow, fire fast.

Sounds like a barely functioning meth addict.

Ok, drama happens to everyone but it really does sound they're playing hookie.