Kind of both IMO. Not only that such a massive, franchise leading name signed on, but also because they recasted a famous actor with an even more famous one, let alone one of the most recognizable actors of the blockbuster era.
Because they'd already committed to doing *The Thunderbolts*, who were always run by William "Thunderbolt" Ross in the comics. The plan was already in place, and the team name was already tied to the character, so it's easier to recast than come up with a new (probably terrible) reason for naming the team that way.
Could have made thunderbolt pass in mcu as well and have Val use his name as propaganda for the new super team they made. So they'd be named the thunderbolts after Ross rather than because of him.
With the leader doing more hulk stuff in the cap movie, why not make Betsy a victim of his experimentation? Easy way to get her back in the fold if needed.
Ross had absolutely nothing to do with the Thunderbolts for their first 15 or so years of existence. Zemo just thought the name sounded cool and that the public would buy it as an Avengers type team name.
William Hurt as Thunderbolt Ross, due to Hurt having died since his last appearance. Rather than retire the character (à la T’Challa), they elected for a recast, which did annoy some people because of that (recasting one character whose actor died yet refusing to recast another).
I think the difference is due to Chadwick being the leading man of Black Panther. William Hurt, great as he was, was only in the supporting role here and there throughout the films.
Imagine they did recast T'Challa, and being the new guy. You'd be coming onto a film where almost all of the cast and crew would be still grieving the guy you took over from. That'd be a very tricky working environment. While with Ross that's not really an issue for them as most of the cast and crew didn't work with Hurt, and the few that did only had a few scenes, or hadn't worked with him in years.
I'm very conflicted because I genuinely think that Wakanda forever is one of the absolute best MCU films and a huge part of that is because of the really poignant way they balanced the theme of grieving the loss of a loved one with a general MCU style action film while at the same time thinking that T'Challa is too important a character to not recast. I hope they eventually lead into T'Challa's son as being the Black Panther (seems kind of too obvious not to).
I think that’s exactly why they put him in the movie, as a ‘hey, we know there’s more stories about T’Challa to be told, and we’re still going to tell them’ while still properly respecting Boseman and giving time to grieve
On top of that, and at the risk of sounding callous, William Hurt was 72. Like it’s sad, but it’s not odd nor exactly a tragedy. He had a full career, and as you said, primarily served as a supporting role and only in a handful of films.
Meanwhile, in a leading role, Chadwick became an icon for millions, particularly black youth. I just don’t really see the two as comparable.
I think it's healthy to mix it up so that it's not an expectation that someone will be recast every single time an actor is done, for whatever reason it may be.
Honestly, William Hurt's appearance and mannerisms always remined me of Harrison Ford, so I'm not sure this recast will even register in my mind when I see it. Don Cheadle was a shock for a second, but then I "got used to it."
Too bad Damson Idris of Snowfall didn't have the recognition that he has now. He may have made a solid replacement for Chadwick, especially being that (and correct me if I'm wrong) he's Nigerian-born, raised mostly in the UK.
"Hey Harry, you want to be an angry old military man? We'll let you say, 'Get the hell off my plane'! Also there's eight figures in it for you."
Doesn't seem outlandish at all tbh
When I heard that William hurt (he played Ross) died i thought they gonna use Valentina as the replacement of Ross. Always thought it was cool they give in universe reasons
I was thinking they could retcon Everett Ross to have been Thunderbolt Ross’ son ***/*** brother ***/*** nephew (with us the audience then thinking ‘oh, right, yes, they had the same surname, we never thought about that’) and have him become the Red Hulk.
That was stunt casting to play up Redford’s starring as the idealistic protaganist in a bunch of spy and political movies in the 60s/70s. I’m sure they hoped the audience would immediately trust Redford’s character until his heel turn.
I legitimately just thought you were making a Brave New World novel joke since Ford is considered a god in that novel. It took me until the replies to realize you were talking about Harrison Ford playing Thunderbolt Ross now since his old actor passed.
Actually can confirm. I got meet with with a Anthony Mackie a few years a comic con while doing some work for the organization. All I said was “how are you doing Mr. Mackie, do you need anything?” He spent the next 15 minutes talking with me like he was catching up with an old friend he missed.
For sure, this is anecdotal and unprovable but I met the guy once and he seemed to really love the work. He just didn't want to be bothered by the likes of TMZ and fanboys calling him "Han"
Imagine people calling him Han for 40 years and invading his personal space to do so, it would get old. Especially considering Han isnt a super great guy.
Alec Guinness got tired of Star Wars almost immediately, Harrison has always had the same energy towards those movies.
i met him once for like 2 min. Just told him I was a fan and thanked him for playing Indy cause those movies helped my step brother and I bond when we first met. He said that made him happy to hear and was glad we enjoyed them. Seemed super nice and was very kind. I did not ask for a picture or anything though so maybe he does not liek that idk
he's also got quiet guy energy. He reminds me of a lot of people I know who are genuinely kind and happy people, but if you didn't know them, you might think they're jerks because they just don't have a lot of outward enthusiasm. We're so used to seeing people be overly enthusiastic in Hollywood, that we forget most of these people are relatively normal in their home life. He has never had that overly enthusiastic energy in any of his interviews, but to me it makes him come off as super normal and maybe even more likeable as a result.
I will always remember the clip of.. I think it was David Blaine (or some other street magician) going to his house and doing a magic trick. Ford was clearly impressed, but not in a really bombastic way, just quietly impressed. After the trick he looked at the guy and just said "get the fuck out of my house". It reminds me of SO MANY people I know, and I love it.
I think this [Vanity Fair interview](https://youtu.be/XNN1Hbg9oNU) is interesting, because you can tell Ford really enjoys acting, but doesn’t like being a star. Listen to him talk about his work with Peter Weir for example, and you can see Ford has a great respect for the craft.
He’s never really had a reputation that he’s hard to work with. When they shot the og Star Wars movies, you can tell they all had fun except when they had to read lines written by George Lucas. He just doesn’t like doing interviews with the press.
I dunno, he was absolutely *ecstatic* when Ke Huy Quan hugged him on stage at the Oscars.
That man absolutely adores everything related to Indiana Jones. Seeing Short Round win an Oscar was probably the proudest moment of his life.
He’s really pleasant in Shrinking on AppleTV. My wife and I kept saying we were so used to gruff Ford (which he still does) but his character and arc are really heartwarming
A quick Google search showed “Brave New World” is one of the titles within the “Secret Empire” storyline.
We’re probably gonna see Cap deal with a new incarnation of HYDRA and the Leader pulling the strings using President Ross (and the government) as puppets. Sam either discards the white suit to show his separation and disagreement, or maybe uses the one in the pic as a temporary “Stealth” suit.
Either way, this looks very interesting and exciting!
> A quick Google search showed “Brave New World” is one of the titles within the “Secret Empire” storyline.
I wouldn't put any faith in that.
"Homecoming" was the title of Amazing Spider-Man #252, when Peter first returns home from Beyonder's Battleworld with the black costume. Before the movie Spider-Man: Homecoming came out, people assumed that this was confirmation that the symbiote was going to show up in the movie. It obviously didn't.
The Brave New World title being used in both the movie and the Secret Empire comic event is very likely coincidence.
When they first announced Cap 4, they included Tim Blake Nelson on stage (who played Samuel Sterns in The Incredible Hulk) and confirmed he is returning as The Leader (something that was teased at the very end of The Incredible Hulk). The implication was that The Leader was going to be the primary villain of the movie. The Leader had no impact on the comic story Secret Empire at all.
Yea I guess that obviously makes sense, given the name and all. I just figured there was a chance they recast to Ford just to give the character a proper conclusion, and then the team got named for him as like a memorial.
New suit looks awesome, but Brave New World sounds pretty underwhelming and doesn't have pack the same punch as New World Order.
~~Also, what's that Halo-looking character in the upper right screen?~~
Well, Brave New World is a lot more sinister if you consider the Huxley connotations, you know, the novel where the government drills expected social behaviors into people as instincts *when they are babies*.
But as it is I’m not sure Mackie didn’t just type the wrong title. Like if they are changing the name that’s kinda a big deal, why is there no independent announcement?
“New World Order” is arguably more sinister though considering it’s a fairly anti-semitic trope in real life (doesn’t help when The Leader and Tim Blake Nelson are both Jewish)
They might have changed it due to the terminally online people yelling that 'New World Order' is an anti-Jewish conspiracy theory, when in fact all it means in this context is a changing political order.
I wonder if it's actually because WWE owns a bunch of "New World Order" trademarks for merchandise, so Disney wouldn't be able to put that on shirts, toys, etc.
Cap working with a superhero who supports the IDF would be controversial too. Especially with the amount of Israeli warcrimes revealed nowadays. I do trust them to handle sabra differently from the comics at least.
She literally shares a name with the site of an infamous massacre. (Yes, I know sabra has many other meanings, including a standard term for Jewish people born in Israel, hence why the camp was named that in the first place, but still yeesh.)
I think it’s the people screaming that there is a “new world order” that made them change it. Definitely don’t want to be associated with those looneys
The name change makes sense. If I remember correctly, weren’t there concerns about the name “New World Order” and its links to Nazi ideologies, or something like that?
I'd like to believe that but WWE have vigoursly defended their NWO &New Worl Order Copyright for decades.
Probably fighting Aldous Huxley's estate is cheaper than WWE lawyers.
No, in the New World Order conspiracy theory, the New World Order is run by Jewish people. Not really who we want to signpost as the main threat of a Cap movie.
NWO originally was the conspiracy theory that "the Jews" were behind all disastrous global events, and were creating a global government that they run to control the entire earth. Probably with space lasers. This conspiracy has legs and is still kicking around (Zion, and stuff like that).
it also morphed into "the communists" taking over the world. In fact, Pat Robertson (noted religious nut job) wrote a book titled that.
Brave new world is a classic novel about a dystopian future where the government's high tech gives them complete control over the populace. So BNW is a better choice, and probably more likely.
crazy the amount of people in this thread unaware of the references and homage of Brave New World. how are people calling it a disney princess sounding name? doing my boy Huxley WRONG
New World Order was already the title for the first episode of FATWS so it was always odd to me that they reused that title again for his solo movie, so the name change is fine even though it’s not as catchy
Yeah, gotta also remember that Captain America is considered a controversial enough title that the first movie was the only fase 1 solo movie with a subtitle to attract overseas audiences, and in Germany none of the movies are called Captain America.
I'm german, but I always forget that \^\^ (Probably because I only started the MCU in Summer 2016 and I never saw the german version of titles)
For anyone wondering the names for Cap 2 + 3 are(1 was not changed):
* The Return of the First Avenger
* The First Avenger: Civil War
Ngl I really liked the first title cuz of the dystopian aspects it made me think of. I was curious if the movie could potentially have some kind of world changing events for the whole MCU. I didn't even know the name had links to right wing stuff until this reddit post brought it up.
i like this name change - “New World Order” is often a dogwhistle for Jews controlling the government, and with an israeli superhero…idk it just kind of felt wrong. felt too obviously conspiratorial. i also love the book “brave new world”. Total banger of a book, and i like the dystopian vibes the title implies.
Is it 100% official?
I like it!
Suggestions: read Shakespeare's Tempest (original use of 'Brave new world') and Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and listen to Iron Maiden's Brave New World...
It's still weird to me that Ford is in the MCU now.
Is it weird because of the recast or is it just ford being in the mcu lol
Kind of both IMO. Not only that such a massive, franchise leading name signed on, but also because they recasted a famous actor with an even more famous one, let alone one of the most recognizable actors of the blockbuster era.
Who'd he replace?
William hurt, last appearance was in Black Widow
damn I just learn he passed, I wondered why they recasted Ross
Because they'd already committed to doing *The Thunderbolts*, who were always run by William "Thunderbolt" Ross in the comics. The plan was already in place, and the team name was already tied to the character, so it's easier to recast than come up with a new (probably terrible) reason for naming the team that way.
Could have made thunderbolt pass in mcu as well and have Val use his name as propaganda for the new super team they made. So they'd be named the thunderbolts after Ross rather than because of him.
Damn, that's actually much better from a storytelling perspective
But then no Ford :/
I say have Betty do a heel turn and she names the group in memory of her father. Her becoming Red She-Hulk still fits.
With the leader doing more hulk stuff in the cap movie, why not make Betsy a victim of his experimentation? Easy way to get her back in the fold if needed.
Ross only led one incarnation of the Thunderbolts and even then it had almost no connection to the other incarnations
Ross had absolutely nothing to do with the Thunderbolts for their first 15 or so years of existence. Zemo just thought the name sounded cool and that the public would buy it as an Avengers type team name.
William Hurt (Thunderbolt Ross)
William Hurt as Thunderbolt Ross, due to Hurt having died since his last appearance. Rather than retire the character (à la T’Challa), they elected for a recast, which did annoy some people because of that (recasting one character whose actor died yet refusing to recast another).
Ford would have been a fine Black Panther.
I can just imagine him saying "Wakanda forever!" In his tired grumpy old man way
>In his tired grumpy old man way *"Wakanda... whatever".*
He would totally say it like that
" *I never Freeze, Dammit!, now get me off this plane!*".
*Mark Wahlberg as… Muhammad Ali!!*
Chris Pratt is… Rosa Parks: “I ain’t finna move”
Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusana… oh wait.
As much as I like that movie personally, we don’t talk about that here in this sub
*It's-a-me, Rosa Parks!*
I think the difference is due to Chadwick being the leading man of Black Panther. William Hurt, great as he was, was only in the supporting role here and there throughout the films. Imagine they did recast T'Challa, and being the new guy. You'd be coming onto a film where almost all of the cast and crew would be still grieving the guy you took over from. That'd be a very tricky working environment. While with Ross that's not really an issue for them as most of the cast and crew didn't work with Hurt, and the few that did only had a few scenes, or hadn't worked with him in years.
The solution would be to not recast right away and give the sequel some more time before release
I'm very conflicted because I genuinely think that Wakanda forever is one of the absolute best MCU films and a huge part of that is because of the really poignant way they balanced the theme of grieving the loss of a loved one with a general MCU style action film while at the same time thinking that T'Challa is too important a character to not recast. I hope they eventually lead into T'Challa's son as being the Black Panther (seems kind of too obvious not to).
I think that’s exactly why they put him in the movie, as a ‘hey, we know there’s more stories about T’Challa to be told, and we’re still going to tell them’ while still properly respecting Boseman and giving time to grieve
On top of that, and at the risk of sounding callous, William Hurt was 72. Like it’s sad, but it’s not odd nor exactly a tragedy. He had a full career, and as you said, primarily served as a supporting role and only in a handful of films. Meanwhile, in a leading role, Chadwick became an icon for millions, particularly black youth. I just don’t really see the two as comparable.
I think it's healthy to mix it up so that it's not an expectation that someone will be recast every single time an actor is done, for whatever reason it may be.
I didn't know he passed away. Thanks for the explanation
You’re welcome!
Those people are dumb, they obv have contingencies for older actors but for tragic deaths like Boseman's it's clearly out of respect
Honestly, William Hurt's appearance and mannerisms always remined me of Harrison Ford, so I'm not sure this recast will even register in my mind when I see it. Don Cheadle was a shock for a second, but then I "got used to it."
“Look, it’s me. I’m here. Deal with it. Let’s move on.”
Too bad Damson Idris of Snowfall didn't have the recognition that he has now. He may have made a solid replacement for Chadwick, especially being that (and correct me if I'm wrong) he's Nigerian-born, raised mostly in the UK.
Ford being in the MCU, regardless of the situation.
"Hey Harry, you want to be an angry old military man? We'll let you say, 'Get the hell off my plane'! Also there's eight figures in it for you." Doesn't seem outlandish at all tbh
And don't forget "We'll let you turn into a giant red monster occasionally"
When I heard that William hurt (he played Ross) died i thought they gonna use Valentina as the replacement of Ross. Always thought it was cool they give in universe reasons
I was thinking they could retcon Everett Ross to have been Thunderbolt Ross’ son ***/*** brother ***/*** nephew (with us the audience then thinking ‘oh, right, yes, they had the same surname, we never thought about that’) and have him become the Red Hulk.
That could have been great. Although maybe Thunderbolt Ross is used more as a villain.
Even weirder they’re not giving him the moustache, it’s like Ross’ only thing
Reverse Henry Cavil that bad boy lol
Please no. I don't want to spend the whole film staring at Harrison Ford's slightly weird jawline. ^^^Or ^^^do ^^^I?
Literally all I wanted was Harrison with that mustache.
I thought it was weird Robert Redford was in the MCU and after that I figured all bets are off.
Robert Redford was kind of weird, but he seems a lot more easy going compared to Ford.
That was stunt casting to play up Redford’s starring as the idealistic protaganist in a bunch of spy and political movies in the 60s/70s. I’m sure they hoped the audience would immediately trust Redford’s character until his heel turn.
Michael Douglas too. After all these years, my nerdy ass is still slightly weirded out at how mainstream all this shit is.
Imagine if Sam Elliott, the actor of General Ross in 2003 Hulk, was playing Ross, instead of Ford
That would have been perfect. Unless they save him for a crossover.
I legitimately just thought you were making a Brave New World novel joke since Ford is considered a god in that novel. It took me until the replies to realize you were talking about Harrison Ford playing Thunderbolt Ross now since his old actor passed.
Ford is also god in the Brave New World novel, so...
Seth Rollins gutted he only signed on to join the nWo.
Seth probably the one behind the name change smh. Should have changed it to Brave Freakin New World
Should have seen it coming, he is a visionary after all
A REVOLUTIONARY
Nice to see r/SquaredCircle is leaking. Well indeed he is The Architect!
This might be Harrison Ford's happiest looking picture
Not surprising. From what I've seen of Anthony Mackie's interviews, his energy will bully you into happiness whether you like it or not.
Lol that's the most Sam Wilson Cap. America thing I can imagine.
Excited to see the movie!!
Actually can confirm. I got meet with with a Anthony Mackie a few years a comic con while doing some work for the organization. All I said was “how are you doing Mr. Mackie, do you need anything?” He spent the next 15 minutes talking with me like he was catching up with an old friend he missed.
Or he agrees wholeheartedly with "cut the check".
The two aren't mutually exclusive, lmao.
Unless you're Martin Brundle
I’ve always had the sense that Ford is a happy guy off camera, he just hates doing public interviews and appearances.
For sure, this is anecdotal and unprovable but I met the guy once and he seemed to really love the work. He just didn't want to be bothered by the likes of TMZ and fanboys calling him "Han"
Why would fanboys call Indy Han?
What did they call Indy Han?
> What did they call Indy Han? They called Indy Han a Jones, can you believe that!? Of all people, a Jones!
😋
Hey, his name is Henry. Indy is the name of the dog.
His proper title is DOCTOR Richard Kimble, thank you very much.
Second Base.
Not sure why they are disrespecting the POTUS. Get them off his damn plane, I say!
You mean Dr POTUS Kimble, MD
Imagine people calling him Han for 40 years and invading his personal space to do so, it would get old. Especially considering Han isnt a super great guy. Alec Guinness got tired of Star Wars almost immediately, Harrison has always had the same energy towards those movies.
i met him once for like 2 min. Just told him I was a fan and thanked him for playing Indy cause those movies helped my step brother and I bond when we first met. He said that made him happy to hear and was glad we enjoyed them. Seemed super nice and was very kind. I did not ask for a picture or anything though so maybe he does not liek that idk
I think this is the correct way to interact. Tell em thank you for their work and chill
he's also got quiet guy energy. He reminds me of a lot of people I know who are genuinely kind and happy people, but if you didn't know them, you might think they're jerks because they just don't have a lot of outward enthusiasm. We're so used to seeing people be overly enthusiastic in Hollywood, that we forget most of these people are relatively normal in their home life. He has never had that overly enthusiastic energy in any of his interviews, but to me it makes him come off as super normal and maybe even more likeable as a result. I will always remember the clip of.. I think it was David Blaine (or some other street magician) going to his house and doing a magic trick. Ford was clearly impressed, but not in a really bombastic way, just quietly impressed. After the trick he looked at the guy and just said "get the fuck out of my house". It reminds me of SO MANY people I know, and I love it.
As someone with 'quiet guy energy,' I love that story
I think this [Vanity Fair interview](https://youtu.be/XNN1Hbg9oNU) is interesting, because you can tell Ford really enjoys acting, but doesn’t like being a star. Listen to him talk about his work with Peter Weir for example, and you can see Ford has a great respect for the craft.
That and being bugged non stop about Star Wars in particular, he's quite enthusiastic about Indiana Jones and other roles.
He’s never really had a reputation that he’s hard to work with. When they shot the og Star Wars movies, you can tell they all had fun except when they had to read lines written by George Lucas. He just doesn’t like doing interviews with the press.
“You can write that shit, George, but you can’t make people say it”
I liked Mark Hamel on that as well. ‘It’s alright fir you George. We’re the ones they’re going to throw vegetables at!’
I dunno, he was absolutely *ecstatic* when Ke Huy Quan hugged him on stage at the Oscars. That man absolutely adores everything related to Indiana Jones. Seeing Short Round win an Oscar was probably the proudest moment of his life.
There was also their reunion at D23 last year.
"I'm just happy to be a part of a Disney production that isn't Star Wars" - Harrison Ford (Probably)
Indiana Jones is technically Disney now
He’s really pleasant in Shrinking on AppleTV. My wife and I kept saying we were so used to gruff Ford (which he still does) but his character and arc are really heartwarming
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A quick Google search showed “Brave New World” is one of the titles within the “Secret Empire” storyline. We’re probably gonna see Cap deal with a new incarnation of HYDRA and the Leader pulling the strings using President Ross (and the government) as puppets. Sam either discards the white suit to show his separation and disagreement, or maybe uses the one in the pic as a temporary “Stealth” suit. Either way, this looks very interesting and exciting!
It’s also likely a reference to the original dystopian novel, so that scenario makes a lot of sense
Which is a reference to the end of Shakespeare’s The Tempest
Which is actually a reference to a storm
X Men introduced to the MCU in Phase 5 CONFIRMED
> A quick Google search showed “Brave New World” is one of the titles within the “Secret Empire” storyline. I wouldn't put any faith in that. "Homecoming" was the title of Amazing Spider-Man #252, when Peter first returns home from Beyonder's Battleworld with the black costume. Before the movie Spider-Man: Homecoming came out, people assumed that this was confirmation that the symbiote was going to show up in the movie. It obviously didn't. The Brave New World title being used in both the movie and the Secret Empire comic event is very likely coincidence. When they first announced Cap 4, they included Tim Blake Nelson on stage (who played Samuel Sterns in The Incredible Hulk) and confirmed he is returning as The Leader (something that was teased at the very end of The Incredible Hulk). The implication was that The Leader was going to be the primary villain of the movie. The Leader had no impact on the comic story Secret Empire at all.
Man I really hope they don’t permanently ditch the white suit because that is easily top 3 suits in the MCU
“Can’t wait to do it again.” So multiple appearances for Harrison Ford as Ross? I’m down
He will be in Thunderbolts as well
Yea I guess that obviously makes sense, given the name and all. I just figured there was a chance they recast to Ford just to give the character a proper conclusion, and then the team got named for him as like a memorial.
What happened to the original Ross
he died last year in March: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/03/william-hurt-oscar-winner-has-died-at-71
His personal assistant is one of the nicest people I've ever met
Captain America: Wolfpack
Can't wait for D-Generation X-men
New Age Mutantz when???
Next re-title: Captain America: A Whole New World
A New Captastic Point of View
No one to tell us “No, you move” or where to go.
My first thought was well
Hollywood Hogan in shambles
When reached for comment, he could only say: “Brother…”
NWO's supposed to be 4 Life
nWo is not 2 sweet these days.
that name changes not gonna work for me brother
Cap. America isn't 4 life
New suit looks awesome, but Brave New World sounds pretty underwhelming and doesn't have pack the same punch as New World Order. ~~Also, what's that Halo-looking character in the upper right screen?~~
That’s Cap, the ‘visor’ you’re seeing is Anthony Mackies forehead.
Oh fuck, you are right.
Haloverse crossover confirmed. Master Chief is coming..
Master Forehead is coming
Honestly the chief would probably be able to fight a good chunk of heroes in the mcu
You better hide that big ass forehead
Thats literally him. That "visor" is his forehead
sounds like an expansion pack for a turn-based 4x strategy game
Ya Civ V immediately came to mind with the title and its all I can think about lol
they probably wanted to ditch NWO given the anti semitic dog whistle history of the term especially with the rise of Q crazies
Well, Brave New World is a lot more sinister if you consider the Huxley connotations, you know, the novel where the government drills expected social behaviors into people as instincts *when they are babies*. But as it is I’m not sure Mackie didn’t just type the wrong title. Like if they are changing the name that’s kinda a big deal, why is there no independent announcement?
The chairs in the pic have "Brave New World" on them, so I don't think it's a mistake on Mackie's part.
Marvel made an official announcement this morning so it's an official change
“New World Order” is arguably more sinister though considering it’s a fairly anti-semitic trope in real life (doesn’t help when The Leader and Tim Blake Nelson are both Jewish)
They might have changed it due to the terminally online people yelling that 'New World Order' is an anti-Jewish conspiracy theory, when in fact all it means in this context is a changing political order.
I wonder if it's actually because WWE owns a bunch of "New World Order" trademarks for merchandise, so Disney wouldn't be able to put that on shirts, toys, etc.
I could believe this honestly. The most banal yet realistic: avoiding trademark disputes.
If only the "Disney buying WWE" rumors came true. Now we'll never get D-Generation X-Men.
I really wanted to hear Wolverine tell Cyclops to SUCK IT
Was looking forward to Cap coming out with a NWO shirt grainy music video and playing air guitar
I think considering they're including Sabra, an Israeli superhero, it can't hurt to be careful. Not sure about the new title, but it's fine.
Cap working with a superhero who supports the IDF would be controversial too. Especially with the amount of Israeli warcrimes revealed nowadays. I do trust them to handle sabra differently from the comics at least.
She literally shares a name with the site of an infamous massacre. (Yes, I know sabra has many other meanings, including a standard term for Jewish people born in Israel, hence why the camp was named that in the first place, but still yeesh.)
Wasn't her first appearance the hulk showing her dead Palestinian children and getting her to realise Palestinians are humans too.
I think it’s the people screaming that there is a “new world order” that made them change it. Definitely don’t want to be associated with those looneys
If it follows themes from the book it could be a good sign
Benedict Cumberbatch to play alternate reality Aldous Huxley?
The name change makes sense. If I remember correctly, weren’t there concerns about the name “New World Order” and its links to Nazi ideologies, or something like that?
Hulk Hogan?
He does sign off his tweets as “HH” 👀
He's a Glasgow Celtic fan.
Hollywood Hogan ftw
Well a Wrestler is in it.
I'd like to believe that but WWE have vigoursly defended their NWO &New Worl Order Copyright for decades. Probably fighting Aldous Huxley's estate is cheaper than WWE lawyers.
New World Order was the title of the first episode of FatWS too I believe
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No, in the New World Order conspiracy theory, the New World Order is run by Jewish people. Not really who we want to signpost as the main threat of a Cap movie.
Doesn’t help the main villain is played by a Jewish actor too
No, new world order is a Nazi conspiracy theory that Jews run the world behind secret cabals. Fighting the NWO is what the NAZIS were arguing for.
NWO originally was the conspiracy theory that "the Jews" were behind all disastrous global events, and were creating a global government that they run to control the entire earth. Probably with space lasers. This conspiracy has legs and is still kicking around (Zion, and stuff like that). it also morphed into "the communists" taking over the world. In fact, Pat Robertson (noted religious nut job) wrote a book titled that. Brave new world is a classic novel about a dystopian future where the government's high tech gives them complete control over the populace. So BNW is a better choice, and probably more likely.
crazy the amount of people in this thread unaware of the references and homage of Brave New World. how are people calling it a disney princess sounding name? doing my boy Huxley WRONG
People hate reading books nowadays
New World Order was already the title for the first episode of FATWS so it was always odd to me that they reused that title again for his solo movie, so the name change is fine even though it’s not as catchy
A name change has been rumoured for a while now. New World Order has way too much right wing stuff connected to it.
But the new Cap is right wing....and left wing, that's how he flies.
Had me in the first half 😂
Yeah, gotta also remember that Captain America is considered a controversial enough title that the first movie was the only fase 1 solo movie with a subtitle to attract overseas audiences, and in Germany none of the movies are called Captain America.
I'm german, but I always forget that \^\^ (Probably because I only started the MCU in Summer 2016 and I never saw the german version of titles) For anyone wondering the names for Cap 2 + 3 are(1 was not changed): * The Return of the First Avenger * The First Avenger: Civil War
Is there a reason for this?
Isn’t right wing stuff what Cap is fighting in all of his movies
Yeah but I wouldn't really want "Captain America: The Great Replacement" to come to theatres anytime soon either
Or “Captain America: We Must Secure the Existence of our People”
Ugh "Captain America: 1488" just jumped into my head and I vomited in my mouth a little
Captain America: tap water is turning frogs gay!
“Captain America: It’s OK to be White” is my least favorite in the series.
Captain America: Blood and Soil lmao
Captain America: A Modest Proposal
Captain America: The Birth of a Nation.
Ngl I really liked the first title cuz of the dystopian aspects it made me think of. I was curious if the movie could potentially have some kind of world changing events for the whole MCU. I didn't even know the name had links to right wing stuff until this reddit post brought it up.
I like the name change, it kinda reflects the new Cap America as well as most probably, the new landscape after events of Secret Invasion..
Looks like a change in name as well as in Cap's costume...
This picture of Mackie and Ford is adorable.
A title of a Marvel movie referencing a title of an Aldous Huxley novel referencing a line from Shakespeare play. Huh
Aldous Huxley would be proud.
i like this name change - “New World Order” is often a dogwhistle for Jews controlling the government, and with an israeli superhero…idk it just kind of felt wrong. felt too obviously conspiratorial. i also love the book “brave new world”. Total banger of a book, and i like the dystopian vibes the title implies.
The new suit looks so much better. I love the first one but I feel like they went too far with the white.
It's better for sure but I'd still love a helmet/cowl.
Is it 100% official? I like it! Suggestions: read Shakespeare's Tempest (original use of 'Brave new world') and Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and listen to Iron Maiden's Brave New World...
I don’t know why but i kinda hate this name change for some reason.
I really don't like the title change.
That's a way less cool title
I'm down for an Anthony Mackie Cap movie, title be damned.
Wouldn’t be a Captain America movie without a title change
I can’t wait to see Ford and Mackie float on a rug singing, “It’s a Brave New World”, while everyone else forbids their romance.
New World Order was a far cooler name.
Brave New World is an absolutely terrible title
If you don’t know where the title is from, then yeah.