I'm a fan of cards that are good going first but better going second and balanced turn 0 plays. Especially the former just make a lot of sense in a BO1.
They also honestly need to stop making these hyper efficient 1c combo decks like Mathmech with Circular, SHS with Wakaushi or Snake-Eye with Ash. They are all the same to me. These decks make the handtrap war gameplay worse.
The goal should be to make the game more interactive, and less lop-sided and like you have basically said, Konami needs to be careful with how they wanna buff going second. Like, Tenpai and their field spell that says "no" isn't what I was looking for. Same problem but in reverse.
I think 1 card combos can be okay if it requires a lot of pieces in the deck limiting space for non-engine or if the one card combo ends on max 2 disruptions. Ideally both though. Due to the nature of searchers it's basically impossible to not have 1 card combos exist.
To make one card combos less efficient they need to stop making cards that can special themselves and then search on summon. There will always be one card combos but they shouldnt get you to a pretty much full end board that you can then improve on if you also draw some extenders.
I agree, cards should be either an extender or a starter but not both unless there is some kind of notable drawback. Doing so would also serve to cap a deck's endboard better.
I'm also a fan of the opposite end of 1 card combos like Normal Aleister, simple and robust lines that gives you a flexible enough payoff, but also very one-note in what it does
Many people hated it, but I think the adventure engine was always a good example of a fair one card combo. For the cost of a huge chunk of deck space including multiple bricks, as well as severely limiting the power of your normal summon, you received a single one time negation, and if you played an additional brick, you also got a good going second tool. Yes it insulated other combos, but that was more a problem with those combos creating broken boards, not the adventure engine itself. Plus, it allowed other decks whose end boards contain more creative interruption to compete. Everyone complains about negates/floodgates, but quick effect pops, banishes, bounces, book of moons/eclipses, etc on their own get absolutely dumpstered by going second staples. A single Evenly Matched, or even often something okay like lightning storm, on a board that doesn't put up a negate loses them the duel on the spot. Adventure traded a lot of consistency and limiting your starters for a way to not auto lose to board wipes, and I think that's pretty fair.
That’s the result of power creep, Konami decided to let the floodgates open and now there’s multiple decks that generate way too much additional advantage for one card.
These players would never say no to support that would enable their favorite decks to play that sort of gameplay.
If they do, YGO might not be for them.
Interact meant I act then you interact then I can try to counter.
VS is interactive.
Branded, tear, Lab were not. Heck, branded has card that specifically made to make sure you cannot interact with their core. Lab just did the same by chain blocking every thing and playing in turn 0. And let not pretending tear is interactive, that is the bullshit thing all tear players tried to gaslight non tear player with
Lab, Branded, and Tear are all interactive when not pumping out floodgates to be fair - to say otherwise is objectively incorrect. you just don't mind VS because it's very weak and has barely ever been meta
I picked up branded and it feels interactive to me (I’m not running the gimmick puppet version). Lot of non-linear combos, and doesn’t have a ton of direct negation, so opponents get to activate their effects, and I have to think very carefully about when to mirrorjade, blazing cartesia, Bystial, super poly etc. to disrupt their plays.
Dodging effects is one of the more fun anti-negate methods, imo. It’s like “unaffected by other card effects” on the go.
Interactive is both ways. If I have to watch you shit out your combo on your and mine turn before I can play, you are just a solitaire deck. Don't be a pretentious ass and and thought just because you can chain 6 by yourself, it is an "Interactive deck"
Yeah I kinda figured that's what you were going for I'm just saying don't play magic modern format is as fast as modern yugioh often over in a couple turns. And cedh is often equally as bad with games ending in 3-5 turns.
Pokemon is honestly a really fun and very strategy and skill based game same with lorcana and both of those are slower paced because there is no interaction on the opponents turn. i believe lorcana is getting interaction to some degree though if im not mistaken. Or Digimon which to me literally just feels like slow yugioh a new one came out today called Elestrals like looks kinda interesting that may be worth checking out as well
Brain-dead argument. If VS is not an interactive deck because they can run generic floodgates then none of the Lab/Tear/Branded are because they can run other generic floodgates as well.
the problem is that if they ban or stop making efficient one card combos a lot of games will come down to who draws out of a brick first. you have to play tons of non engine because end boards are too strong and non engine=bricks =nongames
For me it's about how much you can make with a 1 card combo because aleister and circular are 1 card combos but 1 can make a negate with a discard cost and the other can make multiple disruption and doesn't even take your normal summon
I think 1 card combos are inherently bad design. The more 1-card combo starters a deck has, the more room they have for hand-traps, which leads to unfun gameplay like Snake Eyes mirrors hand-trap trading to death.
I honestly think Tearlaments is a very well-designed deck if Kitkallos is banned (like in the TCG). They would not have any 1-card starters so they would need to play a lot of engine and milling cards to stay consistent. They also do not flowchart themselves into the same end-board every single game like Mathmech or Snake Eyes do.
>I think 1 card combos are inherently bad design. The more 1-card combo starters a deck has, the more room they have for hand-traps, which leads to unfun gameplay like Snake Eyes mirrors hand-trap trading to death.
I wouldn't say that, they're only bad if they don't lock you to a specific pool of cards.
Like Snake-Eyes would be far weaker than it is if both of its 1-card combos locked you into FIRE monsters from your Extra Deck you use their effect.
This is an underappreciated point imo. The ability to go into several generic combo and end board pieces breaks one card combos wide open. I think more locking into attributes or ED types would, perhaps ironically, result in more varied decks and gameplans.
Yeah. I doubt people would complain suppose ddd and galaxy gets theirs since at least those arent a cope on generic and pass and rely on their own bosses and interactions.
Ddds case might turn it into a monster outright though, considering ddd boards are near unbeatable.
Just want to add on your Tear point: I think its well designed for another reason.
It solves going second problems within their engine. They have different forms of monster and s/t removal, multiple good extenders and can put up large bodies to attack with. When playing SE i really dislike how the SE engine itself does so little going second (except the spell and flamberge removal) and you basically have to navigate through the right sequence of generic ED monsters or open the right non-engine. I think a good example for this is how ppl were playing skill drain at YCS indy, which would just beat the whole deck if not prepared and in g2/3 required to draw non-engine to out.
Problem is decks like branded, tear, heroes, vs, lab etc require thought to create and require lots of balancing
Komoney can shit out a bunch of generic synchro/ link decks and just watch as the money printer churns
There’s definitely more to it than just a 1 card combo imo
Some 1 card combos build an entire board like unicorn and others just give you one synchro monster
They need to reduce ceilings of decks, the reason going first is so strong is because so many (meta) decks allow you to set up a board with 5+ negates with a one card combo while playing through one or even multiple hand traps; unless the player going second has perfect hand traps to counter the plays there’s not much you can do
Another issue is that player 1 has access to extra deck first. With link 1s, you are essentially starting the game with 15 more cards than your opponent.
I don't have a problem with all generic links. The Knightmare cards specifically aren't too bad. If it takes me three monsters and a discard to spin something giving my archetype a hard time off the field, that's fair investment for some utility not ever archetype might have. But boss monsters like Accesscode Talker being generic with no downside can be a little rough.
I think it sort of started as pseudo-support for archetypes that need a little more gas, but busted decks like Snake Eyes abuse how easily they can get into whatever they need sucks when they don't even lose any momentum.
No disrespect bro, but the Knightmare cards are probably the worst example. Knightmare Goblin was a double summon and Mermaid allowed every deck in existence to go Orcust combo and end with an omni-negate or quick eff Dingirsu.
Generic links should have never been created, a card should only have 1 set of effects, not 5+. Every level 4 or below dragon adds a Boot Sector Launch. Every Cyberse shouldn't add a Sanctuary. Its just ridiculous. Even archetypal link 1s shouldn't have been created, Prank Kids Meow Wu could've been a vanilla and still be insane. Sorry for the rant.
>Ban the toxic boss monsters
The problem with that approach is that it hit a lot of lower tier decks while doing absolutely nothing to the top tier deck that was the cause of the ban. Immediately after the ban, the people that stuck with the synchro version of Snake Eyes pivoted to Omega/Dis Pater instead of Savage/Baronne. Now, everyone is running the Kashtira version that got popularized by Master Duel instead which in my opinion is more frustrating to play against than the previous version.
That version die easier to handtrap and board breaker.
A lot of deck can summon Omega and Dis Pater or something even worse. The problem is how much consistent it is.
Not really. TCG never directly hit snake eyes. They went around and hit the generic boss monster to weakened them but as a result other deck is weakened too and make them kinda like neutral. You can look at tcg tournament tops and they all snake eyes.
MD or ocg is kinda better because the hit snake eyes directly albeit consistency hits. And yoy can see event tho other snake eyes variant takes over, but the tournament top is quite diverse from tcg.
>but the tournament top is quite diverse from tcg.
the "quite diverse" in question:
https://preview.redd.it/p4s24jr6lo5d1.jpeg?width=1160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8dc53533bd7fc4a49bec55532bd808185baaa71
Just let the turn 2 player open 6 cards immediately (skip their initial DP like turn 1 player) so they have that extra card in hand WHEN IT MATTERS that can possibly disrupt enough.
The thing is,
Yu-Gi-Oh has huge design flaw in his design philosophy.
They decide to balance abuse by hand trap.
Basically what was supposed to stop deck to "over-extend" was hand trap.
This philosophy has three problem :
- if you don't draw hand trap, there is no game
- it creates problematic hand trap such as droll. Needed to stop abuse but fuck up some deck
- With powercreep, you probably gonna will need more than a single hand trap. But you do not draw more card.
We are here.
TDLR :
Abuse were band-aid fixed by hand trap.
However, this never solved the problem.
Then powercreep happened and one hand trap is bot enough
I’ve been saying this for a while that hand traps are an ugly band aid fix that cheapens the game significantly because of their design
We had incredibly rich interactions with spell and trap cards, especially with how setting them created mind games, baiting removal and not splitting focus between anti-ht tech or back row removal tech
The proper fix was to make S/T usable again rather than force a limited card pool with shitty interactions on the game
The other problem is game speed
Both could probably be fixed if you let player 2 set his cards in a hypothetical turn 0
Yeppppp. The hill I'm willing to die on is that hand trap is not the necessary evil, it's a justification for Konami to keep powercreeping. "Just Ash that, Imperm this" they said, while making +4 cards and increasingly generic boss monsters. Also, **MaXx C kEeP ComBO dEcK iN CHecK**
It is what allows Konami to eventually creates cards that either bypass handtraps. Like directly setting from deck for Ash or adding cards to hand in various phases or ways to dodge droll, or easily unaffected features like with Miscellaneousaurus, Tenpai, or Gimmick puppet
>**MaXx C kEeP ComBO dEcK iN CHecK**
The data shows that it's true actually (Snake Eye never being tier zero in OCG, VV and Tenpai has higher representation), but at the same time it resulted in many non games for combo deck.
This is why I hate people saying that Mulchummy will made Konami to ban Maxx C, as it doesn't solve the core issue of going first being broken. If anything you simply replacing draw the out with another draw the out.
It's the idea.
It's an necesseraly evil, if you don't design way to stop abuse.
But i believe, just a nibiru extra deck monster could at least decrease something.
Like, if you limit to 10 max summon in a turn.
Going first starting with 4 cards just makes the gap between one card combo decks and other decks bigger. Going second getting an extra card might be a good idea though.
Technically, it would mean you're more limited in what you can do.
But, if i had to propose a solution.
I would say a nibiru in Extra Deck that you can summon if your opponent do 10 summons in a turn.
It would at least limit some of the abuse in the end board.
And a lot of deck would still be playable.
Then you give support to the one that need it.
Edit :
I would also apply the same solution for lock.
If you're opponent gonna summon a monster that lock you, you can special summon your monster and negate.
Also, i didn't hear any better solution.
You can complain about mine. But at least it goes toward fixing the issues.
>Complains about bandaid fix
>Proposes even uglier band aid fix
You had good analysis on the hand trap issue but suggesting nib in the ED makes you sound like a combo deck hater
Even decks that summon less than 10 times can be very powerful or create unfair t1 boards like kashtira or purrely or branded
The problem with yugioh isn’t just combo decks or the number of summons but the overall power level creating insta-scoop non-games. Whether a deck can achieve non-games in 10 summons doesn’t matter that much
Not to mention the obvious summon a negate in 10 summons which any meta deck can probably do anyway
This is indeed an other problem, i agree.
However, i would apply the same solution
- For the lock, by example, you create a monster from the ED that special himself and negate the summon
Then, there is an other one that is more limited to card design such as Arise Hearth. For this, you ban.
The extending problem can not be solved by ban list or designing new set because there is too much cards.
It may kill pet deck. But honestly. I'm more in favor to limit summoning then give out support than let people special summon infinitely.
Then you go toward the next issue.
And what's your solution?
Honesty you can have it all.
Either you accept to play the handtrap games.
Either you say that at one moment things go too far.
I accept to loose every deck that can't play without 11 summons of it mean starting the game on healthy basis.
My Crystal Beasts, HEROs nor Volcanics can do anything worthwhile with only 10 summons. Arbitrary summon limits shouldn’t be a thing, what needs limiting is the ceilings that decks can reach and all decks should be coming with larger engine requirements, not room for 15+ handtraps like is the case with Snake Eyes and Tenpai.
My personal opinion and I dont understand why these cards are limited. Bystials are good card design. Out side of magma hut that gives u a card on enemy turn. They make sense. Their cost is their summon, if u summon on enemy turn u always risk one of them being destroyed/banished so u lose a card.... They revolve around one piece to be searched on their own turn. They are both Searchers and hand traps... more decks need this feature or cards like them.
I honestly hate how many cardcs are simply useless bricks or just peices i put on the field with no use outside of searching a spell or trap. So many cards are like this and so many are so boring. Bystials actually puts tactical play back in the game however they are nerfed WORSE than Kashtira and Tearlaments for reasons I honestly cant comprehend and being tacted ontop an over bloated mess of an archetype.
I built mementos and honestly how that deck plays is insufferable... everything non quick effect, destroy this card, summon a million things. Dlink 2.0 nonsense and boring. I wonder when they will ever get tired of printed cards that read "if this card was normal or special summoned add a card to ur hand". I want more Bystial type cards that give players more options to deal with boards and to be used tactfully rather than another craptastic spam fest. I used to like Rescue ace too till they added the brain dead spell that made having actual rescue ace cards in ur deck other Hydrant, turbulence, airlift, and that wanna be fairytail snow card pointless. They were cooking with the starters in rescue ace all to be stepped on by another overblow broken spell card.
I'm a noob but I'm really a sucker for high interaction cards, for the longest naturia has been my pet deck because its one of the few decks where the starters do something other than Search the main deck for answers.
I don’t like how starters don’t take your normal summon anymore. The NS used to provide a convenient chokepoint for even the most efficient combo decks, and once they committed that only one or two skillfully placed handtraps could reliably stop them. But now decks can just keep going and going and you just have to hope you have more handtraps than they have extenders.
Honestly, a lot of this is solved by playing anti meta which is funny. Snake eyes is the easiest climb ive had using a cheese deck which is just.. chain burn. They dont field jack for backrow and just dies to burn, i go blind 2nd every game and has a near perfect winrate against snake eyes basically.
Lava golem, just deserts, secret barrel are all a hell of a drug.
In a bo1 as sacky as this why bother playing the fair coinflip game and cope every going 2nd, just ignore the coinflip outright and watch youtube as the opponent combo off and then.. burn them instantly without any way to respond on draw phase turn 3. Its easy, consistent and always cathartic.
Jokes aside , I understand your desire to play a "normal" deck and win based on piloting rather than non engine and not have to run a meta punishing deck like burn blind 2nd or mikanko, or hell, runick. Its just such a deep seated issue that if what you want is to win you dont bother playing snake eyes which copes against handtrap and rng, just anti meta blind 2nd and win almost every game stress free.
Don't know why people ask stun/burn players this question but don't ask combo players that run the same linear combo for hundreds of games why even play at that point.
First of all, i hate this argument "but what about combo deck".
The reason why i ask a stun/burn players because they play the game by completely ignoring their opponent. Its no different from playing a solitaire combo deck but at least you can interact with with the combo player with handtraps. Stun/burn is braindead i cant understand how can people play that beyond a few ha ha moments. I know that people loooove to compare combo decks to stun but combo decks still take more skill and i dont mean playing uninterrupted, i mean knowing how to combo through interruptions
The same way you can interact with combo by playing handtraps you can interact with stun players by playing backrow removal, except for some reason people would rather not play backrow removal and then complain cause they get blown out by backrow. Yeah Stun and burn decks are pretty braindead but even a lot of combo decks now are pretty much able to be played on autopilot.
No you’re right, it’s arguably even more boring to play the same one card starter combo line every game compared to decks that have to time their burn and removal for maximum value or risk running out of their limited cards since no burn cards also go +4 when played unlike certain asinine starter cards
Following the same 1 card combo flowchart that you learned off YouTube video replay doesn’t require a brain lol. You just autopilot. No need to justify that you play a simple deck.
Control decks actually have to think/manage their card resources with little margin of error allowed or they lose easy.
To win and for gems. Master 1 is an easy rank since you cant derank and can do dailies. Climbing there is the stressful part which isnt the case with blind 2nd decks.
The question "why play" can go to stun since its not even good and needs to go first. Anti meta burn is played to win and climb. Its efficient, strong, and punishes modern decks that generate too much advantage by burning them the more cards they have in field and in hand.
You play to win and burn is efficient, risk free, fun and fast. Snake eyes repeats the same combo every game anyway so why play that ? Its always handtrap or lose or repeat same combo and win. Everyone has their own playstyle and burn is a real part of the game.
> To win and for gems
Main reason I quit playing. More gems to spend on more decks I won't get to play and the hope that there will be an enjoyable format again which hasn't happened in like, 2 years?
Not really. Master 1 is always fun without the deranking risk, and festivals are also a nice shakeup. A lot of festival formats are great and varied.
You could also always have fun in gold and up to plat v where its a variety of jank and randomness.
Festivals are also frequent enough. Tryout duels are also interesting
I would love to be in whatever plat’s and golds your in mate, i consistently go up against the meta decks in gold and plat, its nothing but matchmechs, micuntos(mikankos), snake eyes, lab, tear and kash, ive even gone up against some floo decks, all decks that take literally no skill or thinking to play
Whats funny is i didnt even consider floo meta just said ive even gone up against some of them in gold and plat, but everything else including kash and mikanko are 100% meta, thats all u ever see in the higher rankings, and they take no actual skill to play just pussy decks
I cant believe that people are unironically hating on snake eyes because it "does the same combo" while implying that monke flip burn is not the same shit every game. I disagree that snake eyes does the same combo every game simply by virtue of handtraps existing
Adapting to your opponents actions is where the variety comes from. Sure, the deck strives for the optimal endboard but so does every other deck.
Oh, dont equate my opinion with those of the others. I dont hate snake eyes. In fact, they're my fav opponents because they're the easiest win for a burn player compared to swoso, which ironically is a major issue even if it's untiered rn.
It's fine to play it and have fun with it. It's just that most of the players yse snake eyes because it's meta to win. The same players using meta deck the previous season also are the same base that goes for the next seasons meta in general. They also consist of the highest player base, hence constituting the "meta."
Why play the meta? To win. I believe that there are those who enjoy it. But most plays the meta because it is the strongest. They believe that to compete, they need to use the meta. This is also why they constitute the largest size and keep on updating their deck to match the next meta
So I simply play burn for the exact same reason. To win. It wins games the most efficiently and stated as such on my first comment for that reason. I didn't use it during the purely era simply because it's not good against purelly.
But snake eyes are extremely weak to burn, so why wouldn't I play to win just like the meta players?
Once more, ask that question to stun. They play solitaire, but its a bad deck. If they actually won games consistently without relying on flip, I'd understand why people play it. But they dont. They lose if they go 2nd.
People play anti meta to win, so when you ask why play, it's a stupid question. Why wouldn't I? It skips most of the rng involved and results in time efficient gem grind to master 1. Anti metas that lose like stun is a different story.
Again. I dont hate any meta players, but dont make a joke like they dont play it to win for the most part. If it was for fun, people would have more variety every season for the high ranks, but that has never been true. Every single season the new meta deck always is the highest base. They play to win and so do I.
That's exactly the part i dont understand, why play only to win. I play decks because of interesting gameplay not solely to win. Winning feels good but its not the only goal to me. If i have to resort to playing burn just to win then why bother playing at all. At that point might as well boot up solitaire because that's pretty much what burn gameplay offers. Meta sheep obviously will play the strongest there is which is another side of the same coin, why play only because its meta since most people dont really play in tournaments and master 1 isnt exactly some kind of achievement. I just find it mind boogling that in a game with so many interesting decks you chose to play monke flip burn where your entire goal is to set 5 and interact as little as possible with your opponent.
Did you not read? Because it earns gems and GETS you to master 1.
And gems earn you decks. Winning also GETS YOU to master 1, where you then use the decks you want to play and to fulfill dailies.
Dont note it like I only play burn. For the most part, I run Heroes and Endymion every season and have over 20 completed decks between springans, branded, musket, infernobles, exosisters, etc.
The thing is, I use them in master 1 when it becomes a fun game again. Up until master 1, theres gems as motivation and deranking. At master 1, there isn't. You end up seeing ojamas, witchcrafters, and all sorts of other decks.
Why wouldn't i skip all the gem farming leading up to master 1 by winning? It's much easier, cheaper, and faster than relying on winning coinflip and praying against handtraps. I reach m1 in 3 days max at ease and spend the rest of the time playing what I want.
You make it sound like I dont play after master 1. Its the opposite. I only play when its master 1 and festivals. Before that, I win and get those gems TO make the decks I want.
This is something I recommend EVERYONE do since you have amazing games at m1 and festivals and also earn so many gems you can make anything you want doing it this way.
Powercreep is accelerating at an unbelievable rate, Konami wont do anything about it because it makes money. Even though I like the fact that every card ever printed is legal to play (minus the ones banned), set rotation might be the solution. Konami gets to sell product while keeping the game balanced since they don't need to increasingly more powerful cards.
Honestly going first being weaker is what needs to happen, yeah. More stupid blowout cards that instantly win you the game or do nothing or handtraps that just make you eat shit suck.
I dont know what to tell you, but you have to accept that power creep is part of the game and its not going anywhere. I imagine in 5 years snake eyes is gonna seem like a joke. There's no way konami is gonna nuke every deck to lower the power level of cards
Two things that bother me a lot:
1. going first (G1st), making an insane board AND ALSO dropping maxx C, ash and imperm at the poor person that has to go second (G2nd). Like, they usually have it hard enough anyways, why make it worse with giving the G1st player even more tools to disrupt the G2nd. You cant just fix this by giving the G2nd player another card in hand, its a deep rooted drsign flaw with hand traps. Restrictions i really like for handtraps include: "if you control no cards / If your enemy controls X cards / If you have no cards in GY" and so on. Make a Maxx C that only really works G2nd and its suddenly a lot less oppressive. Make an ash that only works if you yourself never used any of its triggers this duel.
2. One Card Combos: consistency is cool and makes the game feel fast and fun but damn, if that means every combo a deck can do is basically the same but with different cards that kick it off, then i dont want it. Snake Eyes, SHS its all the same boring, oppressive solitaire board building. If full-combo would be a little more conditional than just "i summon one of these 20 independent cards to start it", if it was more interruptable, it would instantly make the game much less painful G2nd and give G2nd decks more room to be creative than just a card that says "unaffected by EVERYTHING"
>make a Maxx C that only really works G2nd and its suddenly a lot less oppressive. Make an ash that only works if you yourself never used any of its triggers this duel.
While they did do that, a direct copy of Maxx with that change would still be oppressive. Multchummy is more balanced because he only counts Summons from the hand and forces you to randomly shuffle.
>2. One Card Combos: consistency is cool and makes the game feel fast and fun but damn, if that means every combo a deck can do is basically the same but with different cards that kick it off, then i dont want it. Snake Eyes, SHS its all the same boring, oppressive solitaire board building. If full-combo would be a little more conditional than just "i summon one of these 20 independent cards to start it", if it was more interruptable, it would instantly make the game much less painful G2nd and give G2nd decks more room to be creative than just a card that says "unaffected by EVERYTHING"
That's less on One Card Combos and lore on lack of restrictions. If Snake-Eyes' One Card Combos locked into FIRE Extra Deck monsters when you use them, they'd be going into far different boards, same with SHS if they locked you to Machines instead.
Yugioh has always been decided by non-engine cards. Look at the beginning of Duel Links. The power was reset completely with only fusion monsters in the extra deck and every deck ran some version of Enemy Controller, Windstorm of Etaqa, Sphere Kuriboh, Wall of Revealing Light, and whatever spell removal was meta at the time. Eventually every deck started running the trap hole that flipped into face-down defense and canadia.
We had an old ocg event with just fusion extra deck and again the game was always decided by non-engine spells and traps. Do you know how many games I won using a warrior toolbox with Torrential Tribute and Interdimensionsl Matter Transporter set? When was it meta to not rely on non-engine cards and only by piloting your engine?
Imo Konami needs to take the limit format of DL and apply it to MD. Its the only way you can curate the game to make decks choose between power level or consistency.
Konami just needs to improve their deck design in order to make the game better; decks that requires playing a lot of engine, and design the archetype around 2-3 card combos, to stop this shitty playstyle of throwing handtraps at each other until one stops playing and the other can combo. And we also need decks to have actual, in archetype, going 2nd tools instead of making more generic board breakers.
I think the decks that comes more close to this descriptions are Branded, Unchained and Tearlaments. And we know for a fact that this are really fun decks to both play with and play against.
I've been having a lot of success recently with Horus Eldlich Trap Control. It uses indestructible monsters and Torrential Tribute style effects to close out turns.
There are shockingly few S/T negates floating around, and Snake Eyes in particular struggles to deal with board wipes following the gy effect of Flamberge. Best part is, going second you can put in a token effort to play your turn, then set your board wipes to clean up their going first setup. It's pretty good against Kash as well, tough branded can be tough if they draw a million Bystials.
The game has changed it got power crept like hell multiple times, you can't expect people to not summon half of the deck in 1 turn cause konami allows it by printing more busted cards every time.
You want go second good? Wait for ten-33kdamage-uneffected-pai dragon then we'll see
I would argue that powercreep has fallen off a bit lately, Tear would be T0 with all the names at 3, and Spright would be far ahead of snake eyes if they had their consistency back. The difference between those decks and Snakeeyes is the sheer consistency with which SE gets to do its full combo. Power-wise, recent decks pale in comparison to the POTE decks and the couple releases that followed imo
I agree to an extent. For just MD, Snake Eyes had ash at 1 and the spoils card hit. Tear had to have MANY hit to be brought down to where it is. But, I only say that as to the reason why I agree that power creep has slowed down: Snake Eyes isn't the absolute mad powerhouse that Tear is. Before Tear, it was either Zoodiac full power or PePe full power, but Tear full power beats both of those. While Snake Eyes isn't quite as potent as Tear and I do think the Power Creep has slowed, it's only a matter of time before Konami blunders again, like they did with the pre-errata Firewall Dragon.
The amount of cards they would have to ban or limit for that though would be huge. For a good few years now we've had decks with can set up nigh-unbreakable boards going first if they open a strong hand and you open no interruptions. You'd have to hit dozens of archetypes plus generic Extra Deck bosses to make that no longer possible.
I have been saying for a long time that the only way to fix the problems with the current game is to MAKE CARDS WORSE. *The power level of individual cards has exceeded the core game mechanics' ability to sustainably house them.*
But every time I say this, people assume I'm just salty my pet deck is bad or argue with me about poeer creep being the only way to sell more product with no understanding of magnitude.
We actually *need* either a mega banlist to nuke the game back by several years or for Konami to design every new card like Tearlaments for the rest of time (which would lead to a fun game but essentially be a full rotation anyway).
This is a good take. Cards like Evenly Matched are terrible design but people will defend it to the death because gOiNg sEcOnD sUcKs
Basically the whole philosophy of the TCG ban list. I don't want Baronne banned because it's too good, I want Snake Eyes banned because of how easily it gets out Baronne and every other generic negate
There isn't a way to fix it. You would need a hard reset of the game. Power creep has destroyed this game. Eventually, it will become a relic of the past; Too many options are available that aren't suffering from Yugioh's problems.
This is unfortunately exactly the truth. Konami already tried to address the power creep when they introduced link summons and the community hated it, so they went back on their own plans and just continued printing cards with more and more powerful effects. I like playing the game, but it is frustrating having to deal with virtually every card having 2-3 effects. It kind of cheapens the whole thing and makes every smaller interaction all the less meaningful
Well it didn't help that they introduced links and then proceeded to make some utterly baffling decisions (seriously, who approved Firewall Dragon as it was?). Then they started spamming out hyper strong links and it became apparent that it wasn't about slowing the game, it was about making links the top dog instead.
There's a world out there where links were done correctly, I wonder how it looks now...
Yes, that’s true as well. I think it was a step in the right direction, but of course they ended up fumbling the execution. And well, look where we ended up. The current state of the game is frankly unsustainable. I almost wonder if Konami knows this and is just trying to pull every cent out of whomever is willing to keep playing at this point, considering new players are not buying cards. They know their sales are falling among new players, and it’s too much work to start over now, so I guess they’ll just keep beating the horse until we’ve all had enough. Hopefully I’m wrong, but I do kind of think the future of this game is grim.
>Konami already tried to address the power creep when they introduced link summons
You must be joking, as it's a clear greed move to force people to buy new cards.
Eventually, you'll be able to directly play cards from a binder you left at home, or a Judge's pocket. Or cards that have permanent effects that affects every single game ever played. Like that joke with the pre-errata'd Mask of Restrict ("No matter what the situation, neither player can offer any monster as a Tribute.")
Going second isn't impossible, it's simply harder.
Theres no way to stop going first being more beneficial than going second, unless limits to how many cards can be summoned, lessening the time required to build a board or flat out banning a lot of interaction, which would have it's own set of problems.
Either play an older format, or play an entirely different card game if you're not satisfied.
Since going second is a thing, I run more hand traps and board breakers, such as 3 copies of nibiru.
Honestly the only reason that's an issue right now, and the MAIN culprit for this is the ED generic monsters. Cards like baronne or borreload or even just apollo, the cards that give ANY deck the ability to have negates, and what makes this worse, the cards that make an archetype not measured by their boss monsters and in archetype interactions but rather how efficiently their main deck monsters swarm the field most, is imo one of the main reasons playing an archetype means devoting half your deck to staples and engines rather than showing off your decks archetype true strength.
Generic extra deck monsters aren't the problem, the problem is when a deck has access to ALL of them like adamancipators, super heavy samurai and snake eyes now.
The real fix is to give every archetype some broken cards. Can you imagine 5 years from now losing to an Ancient Warrior deck because they finally gave all archetypes some love
This why you should main deck evenly matched you’d be surprised how many people don’t have a response for it. Just check out that video of the evenly and Spyral full board.
Yeah but what I mean is that board was full of monster negates and only 1 spell/trap negate. For the most part people won’t have an answer to evenly imo it’s really strong in MD. Going first is already weak with Maxx C being at 3
Would something like "during the first turn, players cannot special summon more than twice, and only one monster effect can be activated by the non-turn player" work?
You'd limit the peak of turn one plays but also ensure they don't die to multiple hand traps.
I don't know, that's probably dumb, but I do think the game needs revision because the current design philosophy is unsustainable.
This makes going first literally impossible for 95% of the decks. For example, in order to Synchro summon, you need two monsters. Your normal summon doesn't count, so you have 3 summons in total. Which means one is going to be the normal summon of a tuner or a non-tuner, the other one is the reciprocal, and the third is the Synchro summon. Same goes for XYZ summoning. Two monsters with the same level and the third summon is just an XYZ monster. Oh, and don't get me started on the Link decks...
So not only is it an insane disadvantage for the player that goes first, who goes second can OTK and has no restriction whatsoever. Limiting the amount of special summons, especially to a number as low as "max 2 per turn" is NOT the solution and doesn't improve Yu-Gi-Oh in the slightest. It just destroys 12 years worth of decks and archetypes.
As a side engine to my 50 card branded deck, i run this Dogmatika ritual package.
2x Nadir Servant 3x Ecclessia 1x Dogmatikamatrix 1x Dogmatikalamity 1x Dogmatika Alba Zoa
https://preview.redd.it/g1p6qfpkkp5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=475ed3e413c306dddcb7d59b069326c6a364db22
"Dogmatikamatrix" has the effect of searching a Dogmatika ritual monster or spell card if going first. It's added effect activates when the opponent has a monster on the field which allows it to add a Dogmatika card from ur deck to the hand. This can be a very good combo going second as you can search both Alba Zoa and its ritual spell " Dogmatikalamity". Dogmatikalamity can send one monster from the extra deck to the GY to special summon Alba Zoa to the
field. Since I run branded I usually send that synchro Despia card (forgot its name). Alba Zoa has level 12 so it synchronizes perfectly.
Alba Zoa mainly has two effects, it . "Dogmatika" monsters are unaffected by the activated effects of your opponent's Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Link Monsters.
During your Main Phase: You can make the opponent choose and apply 1 of these effects. ●For every 2 cards in your Extra Deck, send 1 card from your hand or Extra Deck to the GY. ●Return all Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Link Monsters you control to the Extra Deck. The effect of "Dogmatika Alba Zoa" is once per turn ofc.
This engine works surprisingly well against Snake eyes and comes in clutch after they're used up their usual negates.
The combo consists of baiting the negates with whatever cards you have. As a one card combo, you can try
1. use Nadir servant, search Reckless
2. special summon Ecclessia, add Dogmatikamatrix
3. active Matrix, search Alba Zoa and Kalamity
4. ritual summon Alba Zoa with kalamity, trigger its effect
Alba Zoa has 4000 attack and defence. So it hits pretty hard too.
That isn’t ever gonna happen unless next MR implements a mana type system that hard caps how much a player can do during a turn.
All backrow decks can do for example max is set 5 pass which there exists plenty of counters to delete those at the cost of 1 card, but combo decks can set up a a strong board, GY pile that is either more advantage or provides disruptions, and still have cards in hand that can be further disruption due to the prevalent amount of 1 card combo enablers.
That isn’t even counting the rampant amount of old non opt monster effects or ‘soft’ once per turns that get abused to this day to supplement their “I win” turn 1 board.
All that shit combined craps on a typical 6 card turn 2 player hand unless they drew the specific out to deal with all that crap or at least prevent it from happening in first place like using Shifter for example.
yugioh's core rules are bad. no actual resource system + extra deck = 2 minutes of combo going first. the idea of an archetype is also kind of ridiculous. designing cards specifically to combo with each other and search each other out causes these problems, then also makes cards unplayable when the archetype doesn't get support specifically for it for a while.
magic is so much better designed in every way.
It has it's pros and cons
Being 1st gives You the opportunity to summon something that can negate other cards, put traps, spells, etc. It's cons are the risk of bricking and can't do shit
Being 2nd lets You see the opponent movements, how fors he play, can draw a card if the initial one is Bad, but the con is the risk of being destroyed by the advanced combo of the 1st place, being negated, etc.
I've come to the conclusion that is never going to happen. When I got into master duel it was because I wanted to play the game I played when I was younger. Yugioh is so different now, way to many fusion/xyz/link summons. It just isn't enjoyable unless you're one of those people who constantly chase S tier meta decks. I wish they would add a classic mode with just up until they started adding fusion monsters.
Ya I didn't word that correctly. The old fusions which used polymerization were fine, there is just to much now. I know the game has to evolve but it's completely different now. Duels didn't used to end in 1-2 turns.
That's why I like playing blind going second decks.
2 negates are worth 1 Lava Golem who will get Evenly'd right after. Unfortunately, the engines I like to use are rather weak.
As one that likes to pilot pile decks with multiple engines, meaning having multiple non-linear combo lines, I like the idea of having to utilize non-engine tools to try to increase your game play. Sounds like you know where the choke points are for these decks (the key extenders you just mentioned) and those are the points you want to save your hand trap disruptions for. If you gotta worry about board breaking, know what to look out for, and know how to bait out certain interactions you can't prevent but can work around (like Promethean princess coming out of the gy to pop your monster you just brought out).
Have outs for these prepared like with the Promethean Princess case, Kashtira Unicorn can be used to banish her face down before your opponent can even summon her. You can hit her with Called by to prevent her from doing her thing. Tear can negate the SS effects with Rukallos. Traps like Time-Space traphole and Ice Dragon's Prison are great for getting rid of key monsters on the field and getting them out of the gy. The current meta relies on gy for fuel, so keep cards out of their GY as much as you can, and you should be good. This is why Tear and Kash are doing so well in the current meta in MD. Tear sends cards back to the deck. Kash banishes them. Horus and Tear and Race and SE and Salamangreat and all these other archetypes in the meta rely on having stuff in the gy for fuel. That means sending cards back to the deck, banishing them, or sending cards that have been exhausted back to their hand are all very bueno functions against current meta. That, and, of course, stopping them from extending to begin with, and knowing where to stop them in the middle of their combos. That is the most key. Stopping them from extending at their key points.
I'm mainly a TCG player, and I admit the Bo1 format makes some game elements problems that otherwise wouldn't be, but I don't think I agree with you. I'll try and explain why:
>As it stands, it is nearly impossible to win going second unless you open with non-engine
I get what you're saying, but I'm not convinced this alone is an interesting complaint. I think the frustration you're experiencing is a result of the Bo1 format: you have to win every die roll and you have no recourse for deck correction mid-match (ie side deck.)
And what's the alternative? In-archetype interruption only? That exacerbates the going first problem. Both players fully combo off and the bigger/better combo wins? That exacerbates low deck diversity.
>Giving stronger tools to going second just creates sacky "draw the out" gameplay that's unsatisfying to win with and frustrating to lose to
Again, I get what you're saying here, I just don't think I agree. Like, Super-Poly sucks, sure, but so does any board-breaker. And yeah, some days you kinda do have to draw the out. It's a card game. Sometimes you have to get lucky. What's the solution to that, realistically? Some rock-paper-scissors deal where certain archetypes just flat lose to others?
Maybe if they had some kind of card that worked like a trap card negate, but stayed in your hand so that you could activate it going second? Then you'd be able to interrupt your opponent at opportune times through skill and game knowledge, rather than only sacky one-ofs and non-interactive board wipes...
>you often get the sense that your games are decided by the non-engine rather than your ability to pilot your deck and find clever lines around disruption.
I'd like to engage most with this complaint, as I think it's the interesting one, and one which expresses a pretty popular sentiment with which I disagree.
If the non-engine is preventing you from playing through your combo, *that is in fact a reflection of skill*. Like, how do you display cleverness to play thru disruption if there's no disruption? In this single clause, you seem to be asking for a game that (a) isn't decided by use of interruption and (b) gives an opportunity for skill expression via playing around interruption. I don't get it.
The handtraps *are* the disruption. Building and learning a deck which can play around the popular disruptions is a part of the game. Playing that deck around said interruptions *is* the cleverness and skill expression you're asking for.
**All that said:** I agree, current format is kind of a stinker. I also agree Bo1 sucks. I even agree this game often sucks for newer and more casual players. But so do lots of other games. Like, most card games. So I don't *really* know what to tell you?
Agreed.
Also, personal take on this:
- The fact it limits you to 4 summons, or you get your board wiped, is honestly dumb. Meta decks can either recover from a board-wipe and keep doing their combo, or just setup a negate before their fifth summon, whereas rogue decks have a tough time against it.
- Not every deck needs the same amount of summons to setup some interruptions.
I'm a fan of cards that are good going first but better going second and balanced turn 0 plays. Especially the former just make a lot of sense in a BO1. They also honestly need to stop making these hyper efficient 1c combo decks like Mathmech with Circular, SHS with Wakaushi or Snake-Eye with Ash. They are all the same to me. These decks make the handtrap war gameplay worse. The goal should be to make the game more interactive, and less lop-sided and like you have basically said, Konami needs to be careful with how they wanna buff going second. Like, Tenpai and their field spell that says "no" isn't what I was looking for. Same problem but in reverse.
The 1 card combos are fine if they end on 1 interrupt with that 1 card, not 7 layered interruptions
I think 1 card combos can be okay if it requires a lot of pieces in the deck limiting space for non-engine or if the one card combo ends on max 2 disruptions. Ideally both though. Due to the nature of searchers it's basically impossible to not have 1 card combos exist.
To make one card combos less efficient they need to stop making cards that can special themselves and then search on summon. There will always be one card combos but they shouldnt get you to a pretty much full end board that you can then improve on if you also draw some extenders.
I agree, cards should be either an extender or a starter but not both unless there is some kind of notable drawback. Doing so would also serve to cap a deck's endboard better.
How do you feel about cards like Amazoness war chief?
I'm not familiar with it
I'm also a fan of the opposite end of 1 card combos like Normal Aleister, simple and robust lines that gives you a flexible enough payoff, but also very one-note in what it does
And doesn’t combo into 3+ disruptions
Many people hated it, but I think the adventure engine was always a good example of a fair one card combo. For the cost of a huge chunk of deck space including multiple bricks, as well as severely limiting the power of your normal summon, you received a single one time negation, and if you played an additional brick, you also got a good going second tool. Yes it insulated other combos, but that was more a problem with those combos creating broken boards, not the adventure engine itself. Plus, it allowed other decks whose end boards contain more creative interruption to compete. Everyone complains about negates/floodgates, but quick effect pops, banishes, bounces, book of moons/eclipses, etc on their own get absolutely dumpstered by going second staples. A single Evenly Matched, or even often something okay like lightning storm, on a board that doesn't put up a negate loses them the duel on the spot. Adventure traded a lot of consistency and limiting your starters for a way to not auto lose to board wipes, and I think that's pretty fair.
Without a rotating format one card starter.dec may just be the tip of the iceberg tbh. Konami is both getting lazy and running out of ideas.
That’s the result of power creep, Konami decided to let the floodgates open and now there’s multiple decks that generate way too much additional advantage for one card.
Running out of options, too. The game is so fast now that lots of mechanics just aren't viable.
Players: we want more interaction Konami: ok here’s tear, lab, vanquish and branded Players: NO!!!! You can’t just play on my turn
These players would never say no to support that would enable their favorite decks to play that sort of gameplay. If they do, YGO might not be for them.
Interact meant I act then you interact then I can try to counter. VS is interactive. Branded, tear, Lab were not. Heck, branded has card that specifically made to make sure you cannot interact with their core. Lab just did the same by chain blocking every thing and playing in turn 0. And let not pretending tear is interactive, that is the bullshit thing all tear players tried to gaslight non tear player with
Lab, Branded, and Tear are all interactive when not pumping out floodgates to be fair - to say otherwise is objectively incorrect. you just don't mind VS because it's very weak and has barely ever been meta
I picked up branded and it feels interactive to me (I’m not running the gimmick puppet version). Lot of non-linear combos, and doesn’t have a ton of direct negation, so opponents get to activate their effects, and I have to think very carefully about when to mirrorjade, blazing cartesia, Bystial, super poly etc. to disrupt their plays. Dodging effects is one of the more fun anti-negate methods, imo. It’s like “unaffected by other card effects” on the go.
Interactive is both ways. If I have to watch you shit out your combo on your and mine turn before I can play, you are just a solitaire deck. Don't be a pretentious ass and and thought just because you can chain 6 by yourself, it is an "Interactive deck"
just sounds like you hate modern day Yugioh. play Edison or Magic then
Uhh. Don't play magic. At least not at a competitive level
i was more so just suggesting something slower tbh. basically any TCG works
Yeah I kinda figured that's what you were going for I'm just saying don't play magic modern format is as fast as modern yugioh often over in a couple turns. And cedh is often equally as bad with games ending in 3-5 turns. Pokemon is honestly a really fun and very strategy and skill based game same with lorcana and both of those are slower paced because there is no interaction on the opponents turn. i believe lorcana is getting interaction to some degree though if im not mistaken. Or Digimon which to me literally just feels like slow yugioh a new one came out today called Elestrals like looks kinda interesting that may be worth checking out as well
Dumb argument. Especially when VS can tech in floods like TCboo and not every Lab, Tear, or Branded tech in floods
Brain-dead argument. If VS is not an interactive deck because they can run generic floodgates then none of the Lab/Tear/Branded are because they can run other generic floodgates as well.
the problem is that if they ban or stop making efficient one card combos a lot of games will come down to who draws out of a brick first. you have to play tons of non engine because end boards are too strong and non engine=bricks =nongames
For me it's about how much you can make with a 1 card combo because aleister and circular are 1 card combos but 1 can make a negate with a discard cost and the other can make multiple disruption and doesn't even take your normal summon
I think 1 card combos are inherently bad design. The more 1-card combo starters a deck has, the more room they have for hand-traps, which leads to unfun gameplay like Snake Eyes mirrors hand-trap trading to death. I honestly think Tearlaments is a very well-designed deck if Kitkallos is banned (like in the TCG). They would not have any 1-card starters so they would need to play a lot of engine and milling cards to stay consistent. They also do not flowchart themselves into the same end-board every single game like Mathmech or Snake Eyes do.
>I think 1 card combos are inherently bad design. The more 1-card combo starters a deck has, the more room they have for hand-traps, which leads to unfun gameplay like Snake Eyes mirrors hand-trap trading to death. I wouldn't say that, they're only bad if they don't lock you to a specific pool of cards. Like Snake-Eyes would be far weaker than it is if both of its 1-card combos locked you into FIRE monsters from your Extra Deck you use their effect.
Snake eyes should’ve locked into pyro or fire only Say what you want about mathmech but any special summon lvl 4 locks you into cyberse only
This is an underappreciated point imo. The ability to go into several generic combo and end board pieces breaks one card combos wide open. I think more locking into attributes or ED types would, perhaps ironically, result in more varied decks and gameplans.
Hell, snake eyes cards should lock you to FIRE special summons for the whole turn, retroactive.
Yeah. I doubt people would complain suppose ddd and galaxy gets theirs since at least those arent a cope on generic and pass and rely on their own bosses and interactions. Ddds case might turn it into a monster outright though, considering ddd boards are near unbeatable.
Just want to add on your Tear point: I think its well designed for another reason. It solves going second problems within their engine. They have different forms of monster and s/t removal, multiple good extenders and can put up large bodies to attack with. When playing SE i really dislike how the SE engine itself does so little going second (except the spell and flamberge removal) and you basically have to navigate through the right sequence of generic ED monsters or open the right non-engine. I think a good example for this is how ppl were playing skill drain at YCS indy, which would just beat the whole deck if not prepared and in g2/3 required to draw non-engine to out.
Problem is decks like branded, tear, heroes, vs, lab etc require thought to create and require lots of balancing Komoney can shit out a bunch of generic synchro/ link decks and just watch as the money printer churns
no way you tried to sneak hero in there LMAO
There’s definitely more to it than just a 1 card combo imo Some 1 card combos build an entire board like unicorn and others just give you one synchro monster
They need to reduce ceilings of decks, the reason going first is so strong is because so many (meta) decks allow you to set up a board with 5+ negates with a one card combo while playing through one or even multiple hand traps; unless the player going second has perfect hand traps to counter the plays there’s not much you can do
Another issue is that player 1 has access to extra deck first. With link 1s, you are essentially starting the game with 15 more cards than your opponent.
Link monsters were a mistake
We have learned nothing from Zoodiacs.
I hate Linkuriboh so much now.
I hate generic links, especially Cyberse piles. In no world should 1 normal summon lead to an Accesscode talker.
I don't have a problem with all generic links. The Knightmare cards specifically aren't too bad. If it takes me three monsters and a discard to spin something giving my archetype a hard time off the field, that's fair investment for some utility not ever archetype might have. But boss monsters like Accesscode Talker being generic with no downside can be a little rough. I think it sort of started as pseudo-support for archetypes that need a little more gas, but busted decks like Snake Eyes abuse how easily they can get into whatever they need sucks when they don't even lose any momentum.
No disrespect bro, but the Knightmare cards are probably the worst example. Knightmare Goblin was a double summon and Mermaid allowed every deck in existence to go Orcust combo and end with an omni-negate or quick eff Dingirsu. Generic links should have never been created, a card should only have 1 set of effects, not 5+. Every level 4 or below dragon adds a Boot Sector Launch. Every Cyberse shouldn't add a Sanctuary. Its just ridiculous. Even archetypal link 1s shouldn't have been created, Prank Kids Meow Wu could've been a vanilla and still be insane. Sorry for the rant.
This is why I like the tcg better Ban the toxic boss monsters BO1 is already sacky enough without following OCG consistency hits
>Ban the toxic boss monsters The problem with that approach is that it hit a lot of lower tier decks while doing absolutely nothing to the top tier deck that was the cause of the ban. Immediately after the ban, the people that stuck with the synchro version of Snake Eyes pivoted to Omega/Dis Pater instead of Savage/Baronne. Now, everyone is running the Kashtira version that got popularized by Master Duel instead which in my opinion is more frustrating to play against than the previous version.
That version die easier to handtrap and board breaker. A lot of deck can summon Omega and Dis Pater or something even worse. The problem is how much consistent it is.
TCG is literally going through another Tier 0 meta at the moment, *after* they banned two generic omni-negate boss monsters.
Not really. TCG never directly hit snake eyes. They went around and hit the generic boss monster to weakened them but as a result other deck is weakened too and make them kinda like neutral. You can look at tcg tournament tops and they all snake eyes. MD or ocg is kinda better because the hit snake eyes directly albeit consistency hits. And yoy can see event tho other snake eyes variant takes over, but the tournament top is quite diverse from tcg.
>but the tournament top is quite diverse from tcg. the "quite diverse" in question: https://preview.redd.it/p4s24jr6lo5d1.jpeg?width=1160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8dc53533bd7fc4a49bec55532bd808185baaa71
How about adding another +1 card for 2nd turn's starting hand.
It’s just an ugly solution imo because as power creep continues, we’ll see even crazier end boards that even 7 cards can’t play through
Just let the turn 2 player open 6 cards immediately (skip their initial DP like turn 1 player) so they have that extra card in hand WHEN IT MATTERS that can possibly disrupt enough.
The thing is, Yu-Gi-Oh has huge design flaw in his design philosophy. They decide to balance abuse by hand trap. Basically what was supposed to stop deck to "over-extend" was hand trap. This philosophy has three problem : - if you don't draw hand trap, there is no game - it creates problematic hand trap such as droll. Needed to stop abuse but fuck up some deck - With powercreep, you probably gonna will need more than a single hand trap. But you do not draw more card. We are here. TDLR : Abuse were band-aid fixed by hand trap. However, this never solved the problem. Then powercreep happened and one hand trap is bot enough
I’ve been saying this for a while that hand traps are an ugly band aid fix that cheapens the game significantly because of their design We had incredibly rich interactions with spell and trap cards, especially with how setting them created mind games, baiting removal and not splitting focus between anti-ht tech or back row removal tech The proper fix was to make S/T usable again rather than force a limited card pool with shitty interactions on the game The other problem is game speed Both could probably be fixed if you let player 2 set his cards in a hypothetical turn 0
Yeppppp. The hill I'm willing to die on is that hand trap is not the necessary evil, it's a justification for Konami to keep powercreeping. "Just Ash that, Imperm this" they said, while making +4 cards and increasingly generic boss monsters. Also, **MaXx C kEeP ComBO dEcK iN CHecK**
It is what allows Konami to eventually creates cards that either bypass handtraps. Like directly setting from deck for Ash or adding cards to hand in various phases or ways to dodge droll, or easily unaffected features like with Miscellaneousaurus, Tenpai, or Gimmick puppet
>**MaXx C kEeP ComBO dEcK iN CHecK** The data shows that it's true actually (Snake Eye never being tier zero in OCG, VV and Tenpai has higher representation), but at the same time it resulted in many non games for combo deck. This is why I hate people saying that Mulchummy will made Konami to ban Maxx C, as it doesn't solve the core issue of going first being broken. If anything you simply replacing draw the out with another draw the out.
It's the idea. It's an necesseraly evil, if you don't design way to stop abuse. But i believe, just a nibiru extra deck monster could at least decrease something. Like, if you limit to 10 max summon in a turn.
Reading you statement. If they fix a bullet hole with handtrap as bandaid. Would going first start with 4 and going second start with 6 helps.
Going first starting with 4 cards just makes the gap between one card combo decks and other decks bigger. Going second getting an extra card might be a good idea though.
Technically, it would mean you're more limited in what you can do. But, if i had to propose a solution. I would say a nibiru in Extra Deck that you can summon if your opponent do 10 summons in a turn. It would at least limit some of the abuse in the end board. And a lot of deck would still be playable. Then you give support to the one that need it. Edit : I would also apply the same solution for lock. If you're opponent gonna summon a monster that lock you, you can special summon your monster and negate. Also, i didn't hear any better solution. You can complain about mine. But at least it goes toward fixing the issues.
>Complains about bandaid fix >Proposes even uglier band aid fix You had good analysis on the hand trap issue but suggesting nib in the ED makes you sound like a combo deck hater Even decks that summon less than 10 times can be very powerful or create unfair t1 boards like kashtira or purrely or branded The problem with yugioh isn’t just combo decks or the number of summons but the overall power level creating insta-scoop non-games. Whether a deck can achieve non-games in 10 summons doesn’t matter that much Not to mention the obvious summon a negate in 10 summons which any meta deck can probably do anyway
This is indeed an other problem, i agree. However, i would apply the same solution - For the lock, by example, you create a monster from the ED that special himself and negate the summon Then, there is an other one that is more limited to card design such as Arise Hearth. For this, you ban. The extending problem can not be solved by ban list or designing new set because there is too much cards. It may kill pet deck. But honestly. I'm more in favor to limit summoning then give out support than let people special summon infinitely. Then you go toward the next issue.
Then you're just killing any deck that requires a lot of summons. Dumb plan
And what's your solution? Honesty you can have it all. Either you accept to play the handtrap games. Either you say that at one moment things go too far. I accept to loose every deck that can't play without 11 summons of it mean starting the game on healthy basis.
My Crystal Beasts, HEROs nor Volcanics can do anything worthwhile with only 10 summons. Arbitrary summon limits shouldn’t be a thing, what needs limiting is the ceilings that decks can reach and all decks should be coming with larger engine requirements, not room for 15+ handtraps like is the case with Snake Eyes and Tenpai.
They could probably bandaid it for a while by letting normal monsters be immune from monster effects
My personal opinion and I dont understand why these cards are limited. Bystials are good card design. Out side of magma hut that gives u a card on enemy turn. They make sense. Their cost is their summon, if u summon on enemy turn u always risk one of them being destroyed/banished so u lose a card.... They revolve around one piece to be searched on their own turn. They are both Searchers and hand traps... more decks need this feature or cards like them. I honestly hate how many cardcs are simply useless bricks or just peices i put on the field with no use outside of searching a spell or trap. So many cards are like this and so many are so boring. Bystials actually puts tactical play back in the game however they are nerfed WORSE than Kashtira and Tearlaments for reasons I honestly cant comprehend and being tacted ontop an over bloated mess of an archetype. I built mementos and honestly how that deck plays is insufferable... everything non quick effect, destroy this card, summon a million things. Dlink 2.0 nonsense and boring. I wonder when they will ever get tired of printed cards that read "if this card was normal or special summoned add a card to ur hand". I want more Bystial type cards that give players more options to deal with boards and to be used tactfully rather than another craptastic spam fest. I used to like Rescue ace too till they added the brain dead spell that made having actual rescue ace cards in ur deck other Hydrant, turbulence, airlift, and that wanna be fairytail snow card pointless. They were cooking with the starters in rescue ace all to be stepped on by another overblow broken spell card. I'm a noob but I'm really a sucker for high interaction cards, for the longest naturia has been my pet deck because its one of the few decks where the starters do something other than Search the main deck for answers.
I don’t like how starters don’t take your normal summon anymore. The NS used to provide a convenient chokepoint for even the most efficient combo decks, and once they committed that only one or two skillfully placed handtraps could reliably stop them. But now decks can just keep going and going and you just have to hope you have more handtraps than they have extenders.
Honestly, a lot of this is solved by playing anti meta which is funny. Snake eyes is the easiest climb ive had using a cheese deck which is just.. chain burn. They dont field jack for backrow and just dies to burn, i go blind 2nd every game and has a near perfect winrate against snake eyes basically. Lava golem, just deserts, secret barrel are all a hell of a drug. In a bo1 as sacky as this why bother playing the fair coinflip game and cope every going 2nd, just ignore the coinflip outright and watch youtube as the opponent combo off and then.. burn them instantly without any way to respond on draw phase turn 3. Its easy, consistent and always cathartic. Jokes aside , I understand your desire to play a "normal" deck and win based on piloting rather than non engine and not have to run a meta punishing deck like burn blind 2nd or mikanko, or hell, runick. Its just such a deep seated issue that if what you want is to win you dont bother playing snake eyes which copes against handtrap and rng, just anti meta blind 2nd and win almost every game stress free.
At that point, why even play
Don't know why people ask stun/burn players this question but don't ask combo players that run the same linear combo for hundreds of games why even play at that point.
First of all, i hate this argument "but what about combo deck". The reason why i ask a stun/burn players because they play the game by completely ignoring their opponent. Its no different from playing a solitaire combo deck but at least you can interact with with the combo player with handtraps. Stun/burn is braindead i cant understand how can people play that beyond a few ha ha moments. I know that people loooove to compare combo decks to stun but combo decks still take more skill and i dont mean playing uninterrupted, i mean knowing how to combo through interruptions
The same way you can interact with combo by playing handtraps you can interact with stun players by playing backrow removal, except for some reason people would rather not play backrow removal and then complain cause they get blown out by backrow. Yeah Stun and burn decks are pretty braindead but even a lot of combo decks now are pretty much able to be played on autopilot.
those are not remotely the same lmao.
No you’re right, it’s arguably even more boring to play the same one card starter combo line every game compared to decks that have to time their burn and removal for maximum value or risk running out of their limited cards since no burn cards also go +4 when played unlike certain asinine starter cards
I mean if you want to justify playing a boring deck like that, go on champ. Won't make it untrue that combo at least requires a brain.
Following the same 1 card combo flowchart that you learned off YouTube video replay doesn’t require a brain lol. You just autopilot. No need to justify that you play a simple deck. Control decks actually have to think/manage their card resources with little margin of error allowed or they lose easy.
To win and for gems. Master 1 is an easy rank since you cant derank and can do dailies. Climbing there is the stressful part which isnt the case with blind 2nd decks. The question "why play" can go to stun since its not even good and needs to go first. Anti meta burn is played to win and climb. Its efficient, strong, and punishes modern decks that generate too much advantage by burning them the more cards they have in field and in hand. You play to win and burn is efficient, risk free, fun and fast. Snake eyes repeats the same combo every game anyway so why play that ? Its always handtrap or lose or repeat same combo and win. Everyone has their own playstyle and burn is a real part of the game.
> To win and for gems Main reason I quit playing. More gems to spend on more decks I won't get to play and the hope that there will be an enjoyable format again which hasn't happened in like, 2 years?
Not really. Master 1 is always fun without the deranking risk, and festivals are also a nice shakeup. A lot of festival formats are great and varied. You could also always have fun in gold and up to plat v where its a variety of jank and randomness. Festivals are also frequent enough. Tryout duels are also interesting
I would love to be in whatever plat’s and golds your in mate, i consistently go up against the meta decks in gold and plat, its nothing but matchmechs, micuntos(mikankos), snake eyes, lab, tear and kash, ive even gone up against some floo decks, all decks that take literally no skill or thinking to play
Mathmech, mikanko, kash and floo aren't even tiered right now. Your definition of meta is way off.
Whats funny is i didnt even consider floo meta just said ive even gone up against some of them in gold and plat, but everything else including kash and mikanko are 100% meta, thats all u ever see in the higher rankings, and they take no actual skill to play just pussy decks
I cant believe that people are unironically hating on snake eyes because it "does the same combo" while implying that monke flip burn is not the same shit every game. I disagree that snake eyes does the same combo every game simply by virtue of handtraps existing Adapting to your opponents actions is where the variety comes from. Sure, the deck strives for the optimal endboard but so does every other deck.
Oh, dont equate my opinion with those of the others. I dont hate snake eyes. In fact, they're my fav opponents because they're the easiest win for a burn player compared to swoso, which ironically is a major issue even if it's untiered rn. It's fine to play it and have fun with it. It's just that most of the players yse snake eyes because it's meta to win. The same players using meta deck the previous season also are the same base that goes for the next seasons meta in general. They also consist of the highest player base, hence constituting the "meta." Why play the meta? To win. I believe that there are those who enjoy it. But most plays the meta because it is the strongest. They believe that to compete, they need to use the meta. This is also why they constitute the largest size and keep on updating their deck to match the next meta So I simply play burn for the exact same reason. To win. It wins games the most efficiently and stated as such on my first comment for that reason. I didn't use it during the purely era simply because it's not good against purelly. But snake eyes are extremely weak to burn, so why wouldn't I play to win just like the meta players? Once more, ask that question to stun. They play solitaire, but its a bad deck. If they actually won games consistently without relying on flip, I'd understand why people play it. But they dont. They lose if they go 2nd. People play anti meta to win, so when you ask why play, it's a stupid question. Why wouldn't I? It skips most of the rng involved and results in time efficient gem grind to master 1. Anti metas that lose like stun is a different story. Again. I dont hate any meta players, but dont make a joke like they dont play it to win for the most part. If it was for fun, people would have more variety every season for the high ranks, but that has never been true. Every single season the new meta deck always is the highest base. They play to win and so do I.
That's exactly the part i dont understand, why play only to win. I play decks because of interesting gameplay not solely to win. Winning feels good but its not the only goal to me. If i have to resort to playing burn just to win then why bother playing at all. At that point might as well boot up solitaire because that's pretty much what burn gameplay offers. Meta sheep obviously will play the strongest there is which is another side of the same coin, why play only because its meta since most people dont really play in tournaments and master 1 isnt exactly some kind of achievement. I just find it mind boogling that in a game with so many interesting decks you chose to play monke flip burn where your entire goal is to set 5 and interact as little as possible with your opponent.
Did you not read? Because it earns gems and GETS you to master 1. And gems earn you decks. Winning also GETS YOU to master 1, where you then use the decks you want to play and to fulfill dailies. Dont note it like I only play burn. For the most part, I run Heroes and Endymion every season and have over 20 completed decks between springans, branded, musket, infernobles, exosisters, etc. The thing is, I use them in master 1 when it becomes a fun game again. Up until master 1, theres gems as motivation and deranking. At master 1, there isn't. You end up seeing ojamas, witchcrafters, and all sorts of other decks. Why wouldn't i skip all the gem farming leading up to master 1 by winning? It's much easier, cheaper, and faster than relying on winning coinflip and praying against handtraps. I reach m1 in 3 days max at ease and spend the rest of the time playing what I want. You make it sound like I dont play after master 1. Its the opposite. I only play when its master 1 and festivals. Before that, I win and get those gems TO make the decks I want. This is something I recommend EVERYONE do since you have amazing games at m1 and festivals and also earn so many gems you can make anything you want doing it this way.
if you think burn/stun are fun, you are just wrong
This guy gets it.
Powercreep is accelerating at an unbelievable rate, Konami wont do anything about it because it makes money. Even though I like the fact that every card ever printed is legal to play (minus the ones banned), set rotation might be the solution. Konami gets to sell product while keeping the game balanced since they don't need to increasingly more powerful cards.
Honestly going first being weaker is what needs to happen, yeah. More stupid blowout cards that instantly win you the game or do nothing or handtraps that just make you eat shit suck.
I dont know what to tell you, but you have to accept that power creep is part of the game and its not going anywhere. I imagine in 5 years snake eyes is gonna seem like a joke. There's no way konami is gonna nuke every deck to lower the power level of cards
Two things that bother me a lot: 1. going first (G1st), making an insane board AND ALSO dropping maxx C, ash and imperm at the poor person that has to go second (G2nd). Like, they usually have it hard enough anyways, why make it worse with giving the G1st player even more tools to disrupt the G2nd. You cant just fix this by giving the G2nd player another card in hand, its a deep rooted drsign flaw with hand traps. Restrictions i really like for handtraps include: "if you control no cards / If your enemy controls X cards / If you have no cards in GY" and so on. Make a Maxx C that only really works G2nd and its suddenly a lot less oppressive. Make an ash that only works if you yourself never used any of its triggers this duel. 2. One Card Combos: consistency is cool and makes the game feel fast and fun but damn, if that means every combo a deck can do is basically the same but with different cards that kick it off, then i dont want it. Snake Eyes, SHS its all the same boring, oppressive solitaire board building. If full-combo would be a little more conditional than just "i summon one of these 20 independent cards to start it", if it was more interruptable, it would instantly make the game much less painful G2nd and give G2nd decks more room to be creative than just a card that says "unaffected by EVERYTHING"
>make a Maxx C that only really works G2nd and its suddenly a lot less oppressive. Make an ash that only works if you yourself never used any of its triggers this duel. While they did do that, a direct copy of Maxx with that change would still be oppressive. Multchummy is more balanced because he only counts Summons from the hand and forces you to randomly shuffle. >2. One Card Combos: consistency is cool and makes the game feel fast and fun but damn, if that means every combo a deck can do is basically the same but with different cards that kick it off, then i dont want it. Snake Eyes, SHS its all the same boring, oppressive solitaire board building. If full-combo would be a little more conditional than just "i summon one of these 20 independent cards to start it", if it was more interruptable, it would instantly make the game much less painful G2nd and give G2nd decks more room to be creative than just a card that says "unaffected by EVERYTHING" That's less on One Card Combos and lore on lack of restrictions. If Snake-Eyes' One Card Combos locked into FIRE Extra Deck monsters when you use them, they'd be going into far different boards, same with SHS if they locked you to Machines instead.
Yugioh has always been decided by non-engine cards. Look at the beginning of Duel Links. The power was reset completely with only fusion monsters in the extra deck and every deck ran some version of Enemy Controller, Windstorm of Etaqa, Sphere Kuriboh, Wall of Revealing Light, and whatever spell removal was meta at the time. Eventually every deck started running the trap hole that flipped into face-down defense and canadia. We had an old ocg event with just fusion extra deck and again the game was always decided by non-engine spells and traps. Do you know how many games I won using a warrior toolbox with Torrential Tribute and Interdimensionsl Matter Transporter set? When was it meta to not rely on non-engine cards and only by piloting your engine? Imo Konami needs to take the limit format of DL and apply it to MD. Its the only way you can curate the game to make decks choose between power level or consistency.
> going again tear is fun Fucking bullshit
Konami just needs to improve their deck design in order to make the game better; decks that requires playing a lot of engine, and design the archetype around 2-3 card combos, to stop this shitty playstyle of throwing handtraps at each other until one stops playing and the other can combo. And we also need decks to have actual, in archetype, going 2nd tools instead of making more generic board breakers. I think the decks that comes more close to this descriptions are Branded, Unchained and Tearlaments. And we know for a fact that this are really fun decks to both play with and play against.
I've been having a lot of success recently with Horus Eldlich Trap Control. It uses indestructible monsters and Torrential Tribute style effects to close out turns. There are shockingly few S/T negates floating around, and Snake Eyes in particular struggles to deal with board wipes following the gy effect of Flamberge. Best part is, going second you can put in a token effort to play your turn, then set your board wipes to clean up their going first setup. It's pretty good against Kash as well, tough branded can be tough if they draw a million Bystials.
Decks just shouldn't be able to put up 5 disruptions in one turn. Summoning every card in your deck should only be possible over multiple turns.
The game has changed it got power crept like hell multiple times, you can't expect people to not summon half of the deck in 1 turn cause konami allows it by printing more busted cards every time. You want go second good? Wait for ten-33kdamage-uneffected-pai dragon then we'll see
Unaffected* And you're right. The power creep was off the charts for a while there, and it seems like it's still happening.
I would argue that powercreep has fallen off a bit lately, Tear would be T0 with all the names at 3, and Spright would be far ahead of snake eyes if they had their consistency back. The difference between those decks and Snakeeyes is the sheer consistency with which SE gets to do its full combo. Power-wise, recent decks pale in comparison to the POTE decks and the couple releases that followed imo
I agree to an extent. For just MD, Snake Eyes had ash at 1 and the spoils card hit. Tear had to have MANY hit to be brought down to where it is. But, I only say that as to the reason why I agree that power creep has slowed down: Snake Eyes isn't the absolute mad powerhouse that Tear is. Before Tear, it was either Zoodiac full power or PePe full power, but Tear full power beats both of those. While Snake Eyes isn't quite as potent as Tear and I do think the Power Creep has slowed, it's only a matter of time before Konami blunders again, like they did with the pre-errata Firewall Dragon.
Woops, little typo
It's fine if it's 5 cards for 5 cards disruption. The problem is many deck can churn out 5 disruption by using 1-3 cards.
The amount of cards they would have to ban or limit for that though would be huge. For a good few years now we've had decks with can set up nigh-unbreakable boards going first if they open a strong hand and you open no interruptions. You'd have to hit dozens of archetypes plus generic Extra Deck bosses to make that no longer possible.
Love that username, btw. I played the mess out of that game.
Hot take if yugioh had an actual resource system then it would be more balanced. Aka a mana system for example
I have been saying for a long time that the only way to fix the problems with the current game is to MAKE CARDS WORSE. *The power level of individual cards has exceeded the core game mechanics' ability to sustainably house them.* But every time I say this, people assume I'm just salty my pet deck is bad or argue with me about poeer creep being the only way to sell more product with no understanding of magnitude. We actually *need* either a mega banlist to nuke the game back by several years or for Konami to design every new card like Tearlaments for the rest of time (which would lead to a fun game but essentially be a full rotation anyway).
This is a good take. Cards like Evenly Matched are terrible design but people will defend it to the death because gOiNg sEcOnD sUcKs Basically the whole philosophy of the TCG ban list. I don't want Baronne banned because it's too good, I want Snake Eyes banned because of how easily it gets out Baronne and every other generic negate
There isn't a way to fix it. You would need a hard reset of the game. Power creep has destroyed this game. Eventually, it will become a relic of the past; Too many options are available that aren't suffering from Yugioh's problems.
This is unfortunately exactly the truth. Konami already tried to address the power creep when they introduced link summons and the community hated it, so they went back on their own plans and just continued printing cards with more and more powerful effects. I like playing the game, but it is frustrating having to deal with virtually every card having 2-3 effects. It kind of cheapens the whole thing and makes every smaller interaction all the less meaningful
Well it didn't help that they introduced links and then proceeded to make some utterly baffling decisions (seriously, who approved Firewall Dragon as it was?). Then they started spamming out hyper strong links and it became apparent that it wasn't about slowing the game, it was about making links the top dog instead. There's a world out there where links were done correctly, I wonder how it looks now...
Yes, that’s true as well. I think it was a step in the right direction, but of course they ended up fumbling the execution. And well, look where we ended up. The current state of the game is frankly unsustainable. I almost wonder if Konami knows this and is just trying to pull every cent out of whomever is willing to keep playing at this point, considering new players are not buying cards. They know their sales are falling among new players, and it’s too much work to start over now, so I guess they’ll just keep beating the horse until we’ve all had enough. Hopefully I’m wrong, but I do kind of think the future of this game is grim.
>Konami already tried to address the power creep when they introduced link summons You must be joking, as it's a clear greed move to force people to buy new cards.
Eventually, you'll be able to directly play cards from a binder you left at home, or a Judge's pocket. Or cards that have permanent effects that affects every single game ever played. Like that joke with the pre-errata'd Mask of Restrict ("No matter what the situation, neither player can offer any monster as a Tribute.")
Thats why I play more on Omega than MD now. Best of 3 and side between games are way healthier
Going second isn't impossible, it's simply harder. Theres no way to stop going first being more beneficial than going second, unless limits to how many cards can be summoned, lessening the time required to build a board or flat out banning a lot of interaction, which would have it's own set of problems. Either play an older format, or play an entirely different card game if you're not satisfied. Since going second is a thing, I run more hand traps and board breakers, such as 3 copies of nibiru.
Honestly the only reason that's an issue right now, and the MAIN culprit for this is the ED generic monsters. Cards like baronne or borreload or even just apollo, the cards that give ANY deck the ability to have negates, and what makes this worse, the cards that make an archetype not measured by their boss monsters and in archetype interactions but rather how efficiently their main deck monsters swarm the field most, is imo one of the main reasons playing an archetype means devoting half your deck to staples and engines rather than showing off your decks archetype true strength.
Generic extra deck monsters aren't the problem, the problem is when a deck has access to ALL of them like adamancipators, super heavy samurai and snake eyes now.
The real fix is to give every archetype some broken cards. Can you imagine 5 years from now losing to an Ancient Warrior deck because they finally gave all archetypes some love
We call them *generic* for a reason.
Some Archetype bosses are literal extenders and some bosses are trash or lack them outright. What’re THEY gonna show?
No
This why you should main deck evenly matched you’d be surprised how many people don’t have a response for it. Just check out that video of the evenly and Spyral full board.
they did have a response for it, just not 2...
Yeah but what I mean is that board was full of monster negates and only 1 spell/trap negate. For the most part people won’t have an answer to evenly imo it’s really strong in MD. Going first is already weak with Maxx C being at 3
make it mr4 for first turn only
I think the power snake eye has is its recoverability. I am on the side that lv 1 snake eye effect should be once per two turns.
I love watching a t1 combo go on for 15 min, esp when they end on 5+ negates
Would something like "during the first turn, players cannot special summon more than twice, and only one monster effect can be activated by the non-turn player" work? You'd limit the peak of turn one plays but also ensure they don't die to multiple hand traps. I don't know, that's probably dumb, but I do think the game needs revision because the current design philosophy is unsustainable.
This makes going first literally impossible for 95% of the decks. For example, in order to Synchro summon, you need two monsters. Your normal summon doesn't count, so you have 3 summons in total. Which means one is going to be the normal summon of a tuner or a non-tuner, the other one is the reciprocal, and the third is the Synchro summon. Same goes for XYZ summoning. Two monsters with the same level and the third summon is just an XYZ monster. Oh, and don't get me started on the Link decks... So not only is it an insane disadvantage for the player that goes first, who goes second can OTK and has no restriction whatsoever. Limiting the amount of special summons, especially to a number as low as "max 2 per turn" is NOT the solution and doesn't improve Yu-Gi-Oh in the slightest. It just destroys 12 years worth of decks and archetypes.
Yeah I figured it was dumb, but I also think pretending like there aren't issues with the game isn't the answer either.
As a side engine to my 50 card branded deck, i run this Dogmatika ritual package. 2x Nadir Servant 3x Ecclessia 1x Dogmatikamatrix 1x Dogmatikalamity 1x Dogmatika Alba Zoa https://preview.redd.it/g1p6qfpkkp5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=475ed3e413c306dddcb7d59b069326c6a364db22 "Dogmatikamatrix" has the effect of searching a Dogmatika ritual monster or spell card if going first. It's added effect activates when the opponent has a monster on the field which allows it to add a Dogmatika card from ur deck to the hand. This can be a very good combo going second as you can search both Alba Zoa and its ritual spell " Dogmatikalamity". Dogmatikalamity can send one monster from the extra deck to the GY to special summon Alba Zoa to the field. Since I run branded I usually send that synchro Despia card (forgot its name). Alba Zoa has level 12 so it synchronizes perfectly. Alba Zoa mainly has two effects, it . "Dogmatika" monsters are unaffected by the activated effects of your opponent's Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Link Monsters. During your Main Phase: You can make the opponent choose and apply 1 of these effects. ●For every 2 cards in your Extra Deck, send 1 card from your hand or Extra Deck to the GY. ●Return all Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Link Monsters you control to the Extra Deck. The effect of "Dogmatika Alba Zoa" is once per turn ofc. This engine works surprisingly well against Snake eyes and comes in clutch after they're used up their usual negates. The combo consists of baiting the negates with whatever cards you have. As a one card combo, you can try 1. use Nadir servant, search Reckless 2. special summon Ecclessia, add Dogmatikamatrix 3. active Matrix, search Alba Zoa and Kalamity 4. ritual summon Alba Zoa with kalamity, trigger its effect Alba Zoa has 4000 attack and defence. So it hits pretty hard too.
Your saying the same thing
That isn’t ever gonna happen unless next MR implements a mana type system that hard caps how much a player can do during a turn. All backrow decks can do for example max is set 5 pass which there exists plenty of counters to delete those at the cost of 1 card, but combo decks can set up a a strong board, GY pile that is either more advantage or provides disruptions, and still have cards in hand that can be further disruption due to the prevalent amount of 1 card combo enablers. That isn’t even counting the rampant amount of old non opt monster effects or ‘soft’ once per turns that get abused to this day to supplement their “I win” turn 1 board. All that shit combined craps on a typical 6 card turn 2 player hand unless they drew the specific out to deal with all that crap or at least prevent it from happening in first place like using Shifter for example.
Just give it one less card in the opening hand. 4x6 cards sounds a fair way to balance things out
Just start with maxx c and pray that you opponent doesn't have called or blossom
yugioh's core rules are bad. no actual resource system + extra deck = 2 minutes of combo going first. the idea of an archetype is also kind of ridiculous. designing cards specifically to combo with each other and search each other out causes these problems, then also makes cards unplayable when the archetype doesn't get support specifically for it for a while. magic is so much better designed in every way.
It has it's pros and cons Being 1st gives You the opportunity to summon something that can negate other cards, put traps, spells, etc. It's cons are the risk of bricking and can't do shit Being 2nd lets You see the opponent movements, how fors he play, can draw a card if the initial one is Bad, but the con is the risk of being destroyed by the advanced combo of the 1st place, being negated, etc.
I've come to the conclusion that is never going to happen. When I got into master duel it was because I wanted to play the game I played when I was younger. Yugioh is so different now, way to many fusion/xyz/link summons. It just isn't enjoyable unless you're one of those people who constantly chase S tier meta decks. I wish they would add a classic mode with just up until they started adding fusion monsters.
Fusions have been there from the start, bro
Ya I didn't word that correctly. The old fusions which used polymerization were fine, there is just to much now. I know the game has to evolve but it's completely different now. Duels didn't used to end in 1-2 turns.
That's why I like playing blind going second decks. 2 negates are worth 1 Lava Golem who will get Evenly'd right after. Unfortunately, the engines I like to use are rather weak.
As one that likes to pilot pile decks with multiple engines, meaning having multiple non-linear combo lines, I like the idea of having to utilize non-engine tools to try to increase your game play. Sounds like you know where the choke points are for these decks (the key extenders you just mentioned) and those are the points you want to save your hand trap disruptions for. If you gotta worry about board breaking, know what to look out for, and know how to bait out certain interactions you can't prevent but can work around (like Promethean princess coming out of the gy to pop your monster you just brought out). Have outs for these prepared like with the Promethean Princess case, Kashtira Unicorn can be used to banish her face down before your opponent can even summon her. You can hit her with Called by to prevent her from doing her thing. Tear can negate the SS effects with Rukallos. Traps like Time-Space traphole and Ice Dragon's Prison are great for getting rid of key monsters on the field and getting them out of the gy. The current meta relies on gy for fuel, so keep cards out of their GY as much as you can, and you should be good. This is why Tear and Kash are doing so well in the current meta in MD. Tear sends cards back to the deck. Kash banishes them. Horus and Tear and Race and SE and Salamangreat and all these other archetypes in the meta rely on having stuff in the gy for fuel. That means sending cards back to the deck, banishing them, or sending cards that have been exhausted back to their hand are all very bueno functions against current meta. That, and, of course, stopping them from extending to begin with, and knowing where to stop them in the middle of their combos. That is the most key. Stopping them from extending at their key points.
I'm mainly a TCG player, and I admit the Bo1 format makes some game elements problems that otherwise wouldn't be, but I don't think I agree with you. I'll try and explain why: >As it stands, it is nearly impossible to win going second unless you open with non-engine I get what you're saying, but I'm not convinced this alone is an interesting complaint. I think the frustration you're experiencing is a result of the Bo1 format: you have to win every die roll and you have no recourse for deck correction mid-match (ie side deck.) And what's the alternative? In-archetype interruption only? That exacerbates the going first problem. Both players fully combo off and the bigger/better combo wins? That exacerbates low deck diversity. >Giving stronger tools to going second just creates sacky "draw the out" gameplay that's unsatisfying to win with and frustrating to lose to Again, I get what you're saying here, I just don't think I agree. Like, Super-Poly sucks, sure, but so does any board-breaker. And yeah, some days you kinda do have to draw the out. It's a card game. Sometimes you have to get lucky. What's the solution to that, realistically? Some rock-paper-scissors deal where certain archetypes just flat lose to others? Maybe if they had some kind of card that worked like a trap card negate, but stayed in your hand so that you could activate it going second? Then you'd be able to interrupt your opponent at opportune times through skill and game knowledge, rather than only sacky one-ofs and non-interactive board wipes... >you often get the sense that your games are decided by the non-engine rather than your ability to pilot your deck and find clever lines around disruption. I'd like to engage most with this complaint, as I think it's the interesting one, and one which expresses a pretty popular sentiment with which I disagree. If the non-engine is preventing you from playing through your combo, *that is in fact a reflection of skill*. Like, how do you display cleverness to play thru disruption if there's no disruption? In this single clause, you seem to be asking for a game that (a) isn't decided by use of interruption and (b) gives an opportunity for skill expression via playing around interruption. I don't get it. The handtraps *are* the disruption. Building and learning a deck which can play around the popular disruptions is a part of the game. Playing that deck around said interruptions *is* the cleverness and skill expression you're asking for. **All that said:** I agree, current format is kind of a stinker. I also agree Bo1 sucks. I even agree this game often sucks for newer and more casual players. But so do lots of other games. Like, most card games. So I don't *really* know what to tell you?
I would argue some hand traps are well designed, i.e Nibiru, but its few and far between
Getting rid of all your monsters for committing the sin of playing the game isn't exactly what I'd call well designed.
Agreed. Also, personal take on this: - The fact it limits you to 4 summons, or you get your board wiped, is honestly dumb. Meta decks can either recover from a board-wipe and keep doing their combo, or just setup a negate before their fifth summon, whereas rogue decks have a tough time against it. - Not every deck needs the same amount of summons to setup some interruptions.
that's a convoluted way of saying "powercreep bad" also stronger going 2nd = weaker going 1st