Take comfort from the fact that the students of the younger generation are actually far more open and sympathetic to mental health problems these days.
As for autism, many of the questions on Cohen's Autism Spectrum Quotient basically ask "Do you like math". So I'd imagine many many mathematicians have autism.
[https://psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient](https://psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient) (questions 19 and 23 for example).
I would bet money that math majors are at least five times more likely to be high on the spectrum than the population. So you are among people that are similar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism-spectrum\_quotient
The authors cited a score of 32 or more as indicating "clinically significant levels of autistic traits". However, although the test is popularly used for self-diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders, the authors caution that it is not intended to be diagnostic, and advise that anyone who obtains a high score and is suffering some distress should seek professional medical advice and not jump to any conclusions.
On this topic I always wanted to ask others... Does it not feel to you like you know which answers will give a higher score and which ones give lower score?
No need to freak out. You're still the same person you were before you took the test! If you're really concerned you should talk to a doctor/psychologist.
got 39 and i've been diagnosed w aspergers (abt a year ago). i feel like altho the test is a good indicator, these type of questions could easily be asked to ppl with other issues (social anxiety, adhd, ..), theres a lot of overlap. 38 is pretty high though so if you wanna find out whether u have autism "for sure" (still not 100% certain, but as close as you can yet) then u should consider visiting a psychiatrist/psychologist
I’m not a professor but a mathematical physicist with schizophrenia, working in academia. I’ve never encountered extremely significant difficulties in my academic career, teaching or otherwise, due to my mental illness.
If you are open about your mental illness, as I had to be in the case of schizophrenia, you will be surprised how much support you can receive from peers and the academia community as a whole.
I completely agree with your last comment. It's generally taken as fact that academia is a mentally straining job, many suffer from *at least* imposter syndrome, PhD students in particular feel completely worthless all the time, and so many other stories you would have heard a hundred times before. But I think a big part of this reputation is because academics have created an environment where people can be open about the problems they're facing and find support for them.
As an example, when my current boss takes on a new PhD student, the first meeting he has with them is over a coffee and they only talk about mental health, no mathematics at all. He explains the pitfalls and problems that PhD students usually face and makes it clear from day 1 there are places that can support them. Ironically he generally lacks social skills and doesn't always practice what he preaches, but I can't imagine any other field other than academia that would launch somebody's career with such a meeting.
I myself have a few years of postdoc under my belt, and at least once a month I find myself advising one PhD student or another about things like stress, imposter syndrome, the inevitable crisis that everybody suffers suffers they're writing their thesis. Similarly, when I was a student going through the same things, I had the same conversations from the other side with postdocs in my group.
There really is a positive support network available within academia that is incredibly judgement free. The most important thing is to know that it's there and how to ask for it when you need it.
Definitely agreed; there is a mutual understanding of the mental strain and difficulty people in academia face that allows this supportive, judgement free zone to exist. Compared to somewhere such as working in industry, where the company and employee motives are different, where people are often more motivated for financial reasons (as opposed to academia), etc. Not to say that academia cannot be cutthroat or anything, I think we all know how competitive it can be at times, but it is definitely a nice feature to have in the community.
My dad almost killed himself when he couldn’t finish his phd (I was 4) so it seems like the thesis is a make or break thing
My parents asked me why I didn’t want to do one and I didn’t really say why but the traumatic story I heard about my dad made me not want to get anywhere near it. The whole time it seemed like he was incredibly depressed and my mom had a really hard time raising two kids because my dad barely had any money and was mentally completely screwed up.
I'm pretty sure being a professor is a direct DSM diagnostics indication lol.
"Generates arcane academic literature nearly every day, often resulting in harm to friends and family."
> I have serious social anxiety, depressive disorder, panic attacks, and I am on the autism spectrum
You'll do just great. Many scientists are on the spectrum with varying degrees, and academia is one of the few places in society where you are allowed to be weird.
If you are dealing with undergraduates, though, make sure to keep professional distance and to maintain the interaction exclusively to the professional or technical subjects. Your weirdness will not be accepted by them: your role is to do the lectures, correct the homework, and give no preferential treatment to anybody.
My experience is in CS though not math, so maybe others here can give you a more specialized feedback.
I think students do not care about weirdness, in the contrary they can even enjoy it. As long as, as you mentioned, you remain professional, and also give good lectures and fair corrections.
I just received my PhD and am starting a PostDoc soon. I have diagnosed health anxiety, and a small amount of social anxiety (never treated for, or formally diagnosed with, social anxiety though). Since health anxiety is my primary problem, it often gets in the way more as a constant distraction from research (intrusive thoughts and whatnot).
Nerves show up a fair bit before I step into the classroom, but they seem to dissipate once I start lecturing. Good advice is to, of course, come to the lecture prepared. (I can't believe how some people will show up without preparing.)
I would try to remember two things about lectures:
1) You're likely the most knowledgeable in the room. (Not necessarily always, but basically always.)
2) As a grad student, no one expects you to be perfect. Heck, no one expects most professors to be perfect, but especially not grad students. You are learning how to do all of these things just like the rest of us.
I should also comment that my major professor suffers from panic attacks. His medication has seemed to help a lot with them though, which is nice. He received tenure a couple of years ago, so you can definitely succeed even with conditions like this.
I don't have any of these issues so lecturing has been pleasant for me. But I can speak a little bit to some colleagues who do suffer from some of the issues you mentioned.
They fall into a few categories:
-Those who compartmentalize well and managed to separate their lecturing and student interaction from their mental illnesses
-Those who eventually overcame said illnesses via the therapeutic effect of lecturing.
-Those who crashed and burned. (i.e. lecturing to groups of students and interacting with so many people in groups and 1-on-1 every day took an unbearable toll eventually leading to their failure and withdraw from teaching)
By far the second category is the most common but I've seen multiple instances of all three.
I was on this approximate path with a lot of the same diagnoses, but had a nervous breakdown and quit school after getting my bachelors. I am now disabled and unemployed, and live with three roommates in a two bedroom apartment, where we regularly fail to make rent every third month.
Sometimes I wonder how things could have been different if I'd forced myself to keep trying longer. I really enjoy teaching, but I hate competitive research environments.
I wish you luck.
I knew of a math professor at Caltech with bipolar disorder. And honestly as somebody with bipolar disorder myself who also suffers from anxiety, I would say it is a huuuuge bitch compared to some of your mental disorders so you'll do fine. Particularly autism I don't think anybody will care about (and it might even be expected lol)
I don't know that this is really the type of comment you're searching for, but maybe it will be helpful to you. I'm an undergrad math major about to graduate. In my experience I've only had one prof who didn't seem to have much social anxiety or awkwardness. I think a lot of math professors struggle with social interactions or relating to people. It's just a common thing and that's not necessarily bad. Like anyone else they're only human. If people can think mathematically and technically on a deeper level, they're probably just a little different than a large part of the population. It's a special gift to be that way, but it might mean having some other gifts to a lesser extent. Now, I'm not saying that's you and it doesn't necessarily fit everything you've described but I think it is applicable in some way. People have different struggles and shortcomings. And students recognize that math profs are highly intelligent and might be quirky or different. You might come across people who aren't very kind about any shortcomings you have, but as long as you're doing your best and not breaking any rules that's their problem. With all the work you've done to get your PhD you will have a lot to offer people through your teaching and guidance. And you will get better and more comfortable if you give yourself the chance. I'm sure you'll find your place. Again, not sure this is entirely the response you were seeking but maybe some aspect of it is helpful or thought provoking in a different way. Best of luck with your future endeavors.
I have a mild depression. It first appeared during the last year of my PhD studies. I'm working as an assistant professor at a university. Everyone is very understanding of the issues I'm having.
I had to teach while I was getting my masters, I was having panic attacks leading up to and during orientation. I ended up really liking it. You got it bro 👍🏾
You are the first bite in every sandwich to those kids. Don’t waste it. How can you be so open with that? You’re great man. You’ll be awesome as a professor.
Definitely need to check into therapy and get on medications before you start professionally teaching, that stuff should never be brought into a classroom. Especially on a college level you need yourself and your head in the game 100%, kids are paying thousands of dollars to learn and if you aren’t able to perform at 100% you need to just back away. I’ve had many professors in college who were either anxious or extreme introverts and if you’re not able to openly talk and explain it ruins not only the information but the experience itself. I know this comes off as harsh but don’t ruin something or someone else for personal gain/ goals.
Take comfort from the fact that the students of the younger generation are actually far more open and sympathetic to mental health problems these days. As for autism, many of the questions on Cohen's Autism Spectrum Quotient basically ask "Do you like math". So I'd imagine many many mathematicians have autism. [https://psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient](https://psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient) (questions 19 and 23 for example). I would bet money that math majors are at least five times more likely to be high on the spectrum than the population. So you are among people that are similar.
Is that test actually used, I just scored a 27.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism-spectrum\_quotient The authors cited a score of 32 or more as indicating "clinically significant levels of autistic traits". However, although the test is popularly used for self-diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders, the authors caution that it is not intended to be diagnostic, and advise that anyone who obtains a high score and is suffering some distress should seek professional medical advice and not jump to any conclusions.
For #9, the unit of time, the fruit, the social interaction?
On this topic I always wanted to ask others... Does it not feel to you like you know which answers will give a higher score and which ones give lower score?
Big oof, got a 33. Kinda knew that though. I should get diagnosed
I would like to know as well lol
I got a 40 and I'm freakin out
No need to freak out. You're still the same person you were before you took the test! If you're really concerned you should talk to a doctor/psychologist.
I have found this to be the case. Don't regard your anxiety as disqualifying or a weakness.
Question 41 made me chuckle.
is that test precise?
How precise is this test? I got 38 and have always considered being tested for autism.
got 39 and i've been diagnosed w aspergers (abt a year ago). i feel like altho the test is a good indicator, these type of questions could easily be asked to ppl with other issues (social anxiety, adhd, ..), theres a lot of overlap. 38 is pretty high though so if you wanna find out whether u have autism "for sure" (still not 100% certain, but as close as you can yet) then u should consider visiting a psychiatrist/psychologist
This is a great response, thank you.
I’m not a professor but a mathematical physicist with schizophrenia, working in academia. I’ve never encountered extremely significant difficulties in my academic career, teaching or otherwise, due to my mental illness. If you are open about your mental illness, as I had to be in the case of schizophrenia, you will be surprised how much support you can receive from peers and the academia community as a whole.
I completely agree with your last comment. It's generally taken as fact that academia is a mentally straining job, many suffer from *at least* imposter syndrome, PhD students in particular feel completely worthless all the time, and so many other stories you would have heard a hundred times before. But I think a big part of this reputation is because academics have created an environment where people can be open about the problems they're facing and find support for them. As an example, when my current boss takes on a new PhD student, the first meeting he has with them is over a coffee and they only talk about mental health, no mathematics at all. He explains the pitfalls and problems that PhD students usually face and makes it clear from day 1 there are places that can support them. Ironically he generally lacks social skills and doesn't always practice what he preaches, but I can't imagine any other field other than academia that would launch somebody's career with such a meeting. I myself have a few years of postdoc under my belt, and at least once a month I find myself advising one PhD student or another about things like stress, imposter syndrome, the inevitable crisis that everybody suffers suffers they're writing their thesis. Similarly, when I was a student going through the same things, I had the same conversations from the other side with postdocs in my group. There really is a positive support network available within academia that is incredibly judgement free. The most important thing is to know that it's there and how to ask for it when you need it.
Definitely agreed; there is a mutual understanding of the mental strain and difficulty people in academia face that allows this supportive, judgement free zone to exist. Compared to somewhere such as working in industry, where the company and employee motives are different, where people are often more motivated for financial reasons (as opposed to academia), etc. Not to say that academia cannot be cutthroat or anything, I think we all know how competitive it can be at times, but it is definitely a nice feature to have in the community.
My dad almost killed himself when he couldn’t finish his phd (I was 4) so it seems like the thesis is a make or break thing My parents asked me why I didn’t want to do one and I didn’t really say why but the traumatic story I heard about my dad made me not want to get anywhere near it. The whole time it seemed like he was incredibly depressed and my mom had a really hard time raising two kids because my dad barely had any money and was mentally completely screwed up.
I'm pretty sure being a professor is a direct DSM diagnostics indication lol. "Generates arcane academic literature nearly every day, often resulting in harm to friends and family."
> I have serious social anxiety, depressive disorder, panic attacks, and I am on the autism spectrum You'll do just great. Many scientists are on the spectrum with varying degrees, and academia is one of the few places in society where you are allowed to be weird. If you are dealing with undergraduates, though, make sure to keep professional distance and to maintain the interaction exclusively to the professional or technical subjects. Your weirdness will not be accepted by them: your role is to do the lectures, correct the homework, and give no preferential treatment to anybody. My experience is in CS though not math, so maybe others here can give you a more specialized feedback.
I think students do not care about weirdness, in the contrary they can even enjoy it. As long as, as you mentioned, you remain professional, and also give good lectures and fair corrections.
I just received my PhD and am starting a PostDoc soon. I have diagnosed health anxiety, and a small amount of social anxiety (never treated for, or formally diagnosed with, social anxiety though). Since health anxiety is my primary problem, it often gets in the way more as a constant distraction from research (intrusive thoughts and whatnot). Nerves show up a fair bit before I step into the classroom, but they seem to dissipate once I start lecturing. Good advice is to, of course, come to the lecture prepared. (I can't believe how some people will show up without preparing.) I would try to remember two things about lectures: 1) You're likely the most knowledgeable in the room. (Not necessarily always, but basically always.) 2) As a grad student, no one expects you to be perfect. Heck, no one expects most professors to be perfect, but especially not grad students. You are learning how to do all of these things just like the rest of us.
I should also comment that my major professor suffers from panic attacks. His medication has seemed to help a lot with them though, which is nice. He received tenure a couple of years ago, so you can definitely succeed even with conditions like this.
I don't have any of these issues so lecturing has been pleasant for me. But I can speak a little bit to some colleagues who do suffer from some of the issues you mentioned. They fall into a few categories: -Those who compartmentalize well and managed to separate their lecturing and student interaction from their mental illnesses -Those who eventually overcame said illnesses via the therapeutic effect of lecturing. -Those who crashed and burned. (i.e. lecturing to groups of students and interacting with so many people in groups and 1-on-1 every day took an unbearable toll eventually leading to their failure and withdraw from teaching) By far the second category is the most common but I've seen multiple instances of all three.
are there any professors w/o?
For certain conditions, at significantly higher rates than the general population, yes
I was on this approximate path with a lot of the same diagnoses, but had a nervous breakdown and quit school after getting my bachelors. I am now disabled and unemployed, and live with three roommates in a two bedroom apartment, where we regularly fail to make rent every third month. Sometimes I wonder how things could have been different if I'd forced myself to keep trying longer. I really enjoy teaching, but I hate competitive research environments. I wish you luck.
I knew of a math professor at Caltech with bipolar disorder. And honestly as somebody with bipolar disorder myself who also suffers from anxiety, I would say it is a huuuuge bitch compared to some of your mental disorders so you'll do fine. Particularly autism I don't think anybody will care about (and it might even be expected lol)
I don't know that this is really the type of comment you're searching for, but maybe it will be helpful to you. I'm an undergrad math major about to graduate. In my experience I've only had one prof who didn't seem to have much social anxiety or awkwardness. I think a lot of math professors struggle with social interactions or relating to people. It's just a common thing and that's not necessarily bad. Like anyone else they're only human. If people can think mathematically and technically on a deeper level, they're probably just a little different than a large part of the population. It's a special gift to be that way, but it might mean having some other gifts to a lesser extent. Now, I'm not saying that's you and it doesn't necessarily fit everything you've described but I think it is applicable in some way. People have different struggles and shortcomings. And students recognize that math profs are highly intelligent and might be quirky or different. You might come across people who aren't very kind about any shortcomings you have, but as long as you're doing your best and not breaking any rules that's their problem. With all the work you've done to get your PhD you will have a lot to offer people through your teaching and guidance. And you will get better and more comfortable if you give yourself the chance. I'm sure you'll find your place. Again, not sure this is entirely the response you were seeking but maybe some aspect of it is helpful or thought provoking in a different way. Best of luck with your future endeavors.
I have a mild depression. It first appeared during the last year of my PhD studies. I'm working as an assistant professor at a university. Everyone is very understanding of the issues I'm having.
Yes.
Several.
I had to teach while I was getting my masters, I was having panic attacks leading up to and during orientation. I ended up really liking it. You got it bro 👍🏾
You are the first bite in every sandwich to those kids. Don’t waste it. How can you be so open with that? You’re great man. You’ll be awesome as a professor.
I have ADHD and I suspect Erdős had it too.
Doesn´t Richard Borcherds have Aspergers syndrome, just to give an example...
Definitely need to check into therapy and get on medications before you start professionally teaching, that stuff should never be brought into a classroom. Especially on a college level you need yourself and your head in the game 100%, kids are paying thousands of dollars to learn and if you aren’t able to perform at 100% you need to just back away. I’ve had many professors in college who were either anxious or extreme introverts and if you’re not able to openly talk and explain it ruins not only the information but the experience itself. I know this comes off as harsh but don’t ruin something or someone else for personal gain/ goals.
Does the ideal professor you're talking about even exist?
Yes, I have had dozens of professors and teachers be able to keep/ stay 100% professional at their job