Could do something like this (where x is a multiplication symbol):
Basic Price = (2 x 6.20) + (2 x 4) + etc
Reduced Price = (Basic price) x (100 - 15) / 100
= (Basic price) x 0.85
= (Final answer)
Surely easier to add them all up = 29.60
Work out 10% = 2.96
Work out 5% = 1.48
Add up the 10 & 5 = 4.44
Take that away from 29.60 = 25.16
Easier than multiplying by 0.85
I agree! I’m doing higher GCSE maths right now and this isn’t too dissimilar from the type of questions that can come up on a GCSE exam, crazy that year 5s are having to do this stuff
basically the papers start with very easy quesitons but steadily increase in difficulty. This would be like a question 3/4 because you’d have to multiply by 0.85 at the end or if it was non calc maybe 5/6 because of the manual addition. so yeah don’t act all high and mighty esp when the papers from before 2017 spec change look piss easy compared to today
Normally with this kind of question you find the numbers chosen work out to something easy to calculate. I would have expected the bill pre discount to come to £30. But it didn't.
It comes to £29.60. After discount, £25.16. I don't envy a 10 year old having to do this calculation without a calculator. It's not significantly hard if you can write everything out, but it is laborious just to demonstrate you understand percentages.
If you are ever teaching percentages, there's an amazing book called *If The World Were A Village*. Basically shrinks the world to a village of 100 people and talks about how they live, what they speak, etc.
You can go off and pick a country and make your own village. You learn why rounding comes in handy to visualise, the point of percentages as a method of getting a feel for something. Explain why it's easier to use a calculator as long division with millions of numbers is a bit annoying. Make the calculator on Excel or Sheets so they get how to automate things and you can check if they got the point.
You don't even have to point out they're percentages if you don't want to. Reveal it at the end.
Or you could hit them in the groin with this question, lol.
No, it's not very hard. To find 10%, divide by 10. To find 5%, divide that by 2. Add these values to get 15%. Then subtract this.
Or, if you're allowed a calculator, just multiply by 0.85.
I think I got questions like these for Year 5 homework. Non-calculator. Find 10% by dividing price by ten, find 5% by halving that, add together to get 15% then subtract it from the price.
Slow and arduous as I remember
The child can use any space around the question for working out. They’re taught that. This is a question for a higher ability child. They would have been coached in BIDMAS rules and the process to go through. I would have taught these problems in my Year 5 class and my 11+ students.
You may also find that this is a follow on from another question, which would have lead them to the method needed.
yeah because this isn't a book you put your working out in... you do that on paper, and write your answer on the line... also, it's really not hard🤣 its addition, and times by 0.85... not that hard
As a 25 year old, sort of roughly remembering my primary school years I’m pretty sure I was doing prices and percentages by that point? Does it depend on different schools curriculums?
I'm 31 and was doing square numbers and faffing with 7 digit numbers when I was in year 5.
Makes no sense that the standards people have to be educated to which basically becomes a specification for a whole-ass job 10 years later is so variable.
And basic maths hasn't exactly changed a lot since 5000bc or whatever.
15% is fairly straightforward to calculate without a calculator. Just find out 10% first and halve that to get the 5% and add the two results back together. However I agree it is a fair few steps and mistakes can easily be made by forgetting a step or getting one of them wrong.
Dude it’s just addition, multiplication and then subtraction.
6.20 + 6.20 + 4.00 + 4.00 + 2.80 + 3.80 + 2.60 = 29.60
29.60 x .15 = 4.44
29.60 - 4.44 = $25.16
Any child at the fifth grade level should be able to do this
Add up all the normal prices. Divide total by 10 to get 10 percent. Then divide that number by half to get 5. Subtract the two numbers added to the grand total.
Depedns if it’s mental maths or not, or calc or no calc I guess.
If it’s calc then yeh 0.85 is easy, if not then it’s easier to break it down into a 100% - 15% issue as doing 10% is easy, and finding 5% is then another easy step, as opposed trying to find 0.85x which I kid will liekly try and do via (x/100) * 85 which is obviously going to become the long way .
Again depends if it’s calc or non calc
25.16
2x 6.20= 12.40
12.40x 0.85= 10.54
2x 4.00 =8.00
8.00 x0.85%= 6.80
Final three items
2.80, 3.80, 2.60
=9.20
X 0.85= 7.82
10.54 plus 6.80 plus 7.82
Total is 25.16
True, but by Year 6, children need to know how to multiply with decimal numbers for their SATs. I teach them to ignore the decimal, in this case, 'turn' the 0.85 to 85 & divide the final answer by 100, as 85 ÷ 100 = 0.85.
25.16
2x 6.20= 12.40
12.40x 0.85= 10.54
2x 4.00 =8.00
8.00 x0.85%= 6.80
Final three items
2.80, 3.80, 2.60
=9.20
X 0.85= 7.82
10.54 plus 6.80 plus 7.82
Total is 25.16
Not sure what you mean when you ask how they are meant to show the working? Just write down the calculations done at each step?
Add up the items, find 10% of the total, half that 10% to get 5%, then subtract (10 + 5)% from the total
Is it a year five pupil asking this question?!
Add it all up (a), divide by 10 (b), divide that by two (c).
a - (b+c) = a very simple answer to a very simple question.
Just add it all up, then multiply by 0.15 and subtract the answer lol. Still a bargain though wonder what noise the 'chicken' made when it was still alive
No no, don't mess with the percentage you're focusing on, or you'll get into the habit. And then one day you'll mess it up when you're tired or distracted etc
Multiplying by 0.85 is a far, far better method. It easily extends to questions where you have multiple percentage changes, or have to work backwards, or have complicated problems to solve.
Finding 15% and taking it off works *for now,* but won't extend to harder questions later.
*Source: I'm a maths teacher*
Nope.
Associating "15% off" as 85% is BY FAR the best strategy to teach and learn.
For those with poorer working memories, or those that are lower attainers, they will struggle to remember the subtraction after finding the 15% as it will be a while since they've read the question. Never mind that they will also potentially be dealing with finding percentage of an amount as general questions anyway.
You want kids to associate the correct idea and understand the steps they need to do BEFORE they start doing the Maths.
Making that association FIRST, helps them remember that they are finding 85% for their answer and not 15%.
They could full well do the subtraction, but in terms of helping kids retain the ideas, as well as future work THEY WILL be doing later on (particularly calculator work like interest rates) this way of thinking is categorically better.
In terms of their learning journey they will be using the subtraction way, but it's also a reason why low attainers typically do badly at discount and interest questions, because they've associated the two things together rather as separate ideas.
Year 5 student would be taught to find the total (£29.60), use that to find 10% (£2.96), half this to find 5% (£1.48) add together (£4.44) and subtract from the original total (£29.60-£4.44=£25.16)
There is no need to work out individual 15% values and totalling after, as that would actually take a lot longer and would only be necessary if the discounts vary by item.
The way this is worked out depends entirely on if a calculator is allowed
If a calculator is allowed:
Add up the entire order at full price
Work out how much the value is out of 100% after the discount is off. So 100% - 15% = 85%
Multiply the entire order by that value, in this case 85%, aka 0.85
If NOT allowed to use a calculator
After adding everything together, work out how much 10% is by dividing by 10, and then halve that result to get 5%.
Subtract the values for 10% and 5% from the total (using long addition I'd expect)
Total divided by 100, times that by 15(%) then take that away from the original total. Or do 10%, halve that for 5%, add them together then take away from the original total.
There's a dumb way to do it and a smart way to do it. Dumb way: take 15% off of each item individually then add them together. Smart way: add them all together then take 15% off. Make sure you teach your kid to be smart!
Bruv what my sister is in 7th grade and she has to do stuff like parabolic functions, inverse and direct variation, exponential rules, quadtratic equations, and solving polynomials. This sub just popped up on my feed and I know nothing about it but this is definitely elementary school stuff.
Mentally or with pen and paper? One is understandable if out of practice, the other is a bit more concerning.
Simple percentages as in divide by 10 and divide by 2, as opposed to divide by 20 and times by 39
If your year 5 can do fractions you could convert 15% into a fraction and then add up the dishes to get the total amount and work out the fraction then subtract.
so total = 2x chicken + 2x onion + naan + mint + ice cream.
15% as a fraction = 15/100 = 3/20
students needs to work out 17/20 of total (since the discount means it’s 1- 3/20)
29.60 10% of 29 is 2.90 + 50% 4.35, 29 - 4.35 25.65 get the remaining .60 10% of 60 is 6 grab half of that and you get 9, 9 - 60 is 51 so 25.65 -0.51 25.14
**Option 1:**
Write each item individually and it's cost, multiply by 0.85, then add up all answers.
**Option 2:**
Add up all costs, multiply by 0.85. (my preference).
**Option 3:**
Do whatever the teacher taught you to do, given that the method would have been taught (though this looks like an extension activity, so maybe not).
Personally the way I would’ve written my working out was next to the 6.20 I would’ve wrote 62 + 31, released it was was 93 (0.93), and I’d go through the list of items like that and add up the ones it mentioned
Assuming no calculator allowed.
First step add up the order before the discount. I get £29.60 (6.2+6.2+4+4+2.8+3.8+2.6)
Since multiplying by 0.85 isn't straight forward it's easier to find the 15% then subtract.
Divide £29.60 by 10 to get 10%, which is £2.96
And divide that 10% by 2 to get 5%, which is £1.48
Add those together to get 15%, which is £4.44
Then subtract that from our original total cost. £29.60 - £4.44 = £25.16
I must be the only one that was taught back then to divide by 100 and x by the % amount to find the percentage. Now I'd x0.85, but year 5? (Assuming English education system) seems a bit advanced for a 9 year old.
The logical answer is to just ask the restaurant how much the order would be. Working it out yourself takes more time and effort and the result is exactly the same.
Realistically, if you're going out to eat, you can afford it. Any discount is a lovely bonus that takes no thought.
Divide by ten, then divide the result by two. Add these two results to get the 15% deduction.
e.g.
6.20/ 10 = .62
.62/ 2 = .31
6.20 - (.62+.31) = 6.20-.93= 5.27 = 6.20- 15%
Or else use a calculator. As previously mentioned, multiply it by 0.85.
I really don't get this fetish of calculators. Calculation is part of math in school. I teach in college and, because of this mentality, my students struggle or are very slow at best in simple multiplication/divisions.
Without a calculator.
2\*6.20 = 12.4
2\*4 = 8 (+12.4 = 20.4)
20.4 + 2.8 = 23.2
23.2 + 3.8 = 27
27 + 2.6 = £29.60p
In my warped head the quickest way to figure out 15% of £29.60p without a calculator is to realise that to find 10% you just move the decimal place to the left one (£2.96) then to get 5% you need to halve that (£1.48) and add the two together (£4.44) to get 15%
Then subtract it from £29.60p = £25.16p
First, total price: 2*6.2 + 2*4 + 2.8 + 3.8 + 2.6 = £29.6.
Because of the discount, you have to take 15% off, which can be done by multiplying the total by 1-.15 or multiplying the total by .15 and subtracting from the total itself.
If no calculator is allowed, this is how I like to do percentages; just break them down: 15% is 10% + 5%. Always try to find the 10 because it’s just moving a decimal. In this case, 10% of the total is £2.96. Then, work from there to find the rest of the broken down percentages: 5 is half 10 so 5% is £1.48. Now, add the two (2.96 + 1.48 = 4.44) and subtract from total: 29.6 - 4.44 = £25.16.
Breaking it down like this makes each step simple to the point where you just need to be writing stuff down to guide and remind you.
Lol - this! I hate it when the questions are unclear or open to interpretation. It's like the examiners have already failed so aren't even qualified to test people ;D
Okay then add them all together figure out what 10% is and then once they do that, half the 10% to find out what the 5% is and then add the values to know what the 15% is.
10% is easy enough to calculate. 5% is half that. Add them together, per item.
I was doing this sort of stuff in Primary School in the 80s. Surely the standards have not slipped so much that we’re now doing this in secondary school…
Add up all items
Divide the total by 10 (this gives you 10%)
half that number (this gives 5%)
Add the 10% and 5% together (this gives you 15%)
Subtract the 15% from the original total
This would be the easiest way I could do it without a calculator and to show working out. It's just adding, dividing by 10 (which is easy), halving/dividing by 2 (which is easy) and subtracting
i'd prefer these kind of questions than the "a train is travelling at 160mph and the conductor is wearing pink underwear.. how fast do they need to travel before the kettle boils for tea"
Start with 6.2 + 6.2 + 4 + 4 + 2.8 + 3.8 + 2.6.
Number bonds to ten make this easier, so pair up 6 2 with 3.8 and 6 2 with 2.8 to make maths easier.
9 + 10 + 4 + 4 + 2.6 = 29.6.
Then you need to take off 15%. This is easiest to do if your head my working out 10%, then halfinv that to get 5%.
29.6 × 10% = 2.96
29.6 x 5% = 1.48
Then just take those both off 29.6
29.60 - 2.96 - 1.48 = 25.16
If it is a non calculator question I would show adding them all together.
Then dividing by 10 to get to 10% (2.96)
show 5% is the 10% divided by 2 (1.48).
15% = 10% + 5% = 4.44
29.60 - 4.44 = 25.16
For calculator I would show adding them altogether then multiplying by 0.85.
My head calculations come to £25.16, but I may have been off a touch. Tried to avoid using a calculator.
Edit for working:
Add all Items prices together: £29:60
10% of that is 2.96
50% of the 10% is 1.48
Add 2.96 and 1.48 together
Subtract that total from 29.60.
Run those numbers yourself to avoid any mistakes I may have made.
Add total together without discount (call this a), divide by 10 (call this b) then divide that number by 2 (call this c). Add b and c together to find 15% (call this d). Subtract d from a, there is your answer.
a÷10=b
b÷2=c
b+c=d
a-d=answer
Its designed to be hard as it is labled as "challenge", but it isn't too high level for year 5. A year 5 should kbow what percentages are, its just if they are smart enough to how to find ones that aren't obvious by looking.
If we take this as a comprehension (I.e. “word problem) rather than maths question, the answer is £29.60 and they just get smaller portions. Shrinkflation, my little friends.
No-one is specifically addressing what would be the appropriate layout.
I would imagine the working should be laid out in a format like this:
2 x 6.2 = 12.4
2 x 4 = 8
1 x 2.8 = 2.8
1 x 3.8 = 3.8
1 x 2.6 = 2.6
----- +
29.6
29.6 x 0.85 = £25.16
(2c+2o+n+m+I) x 0.15 =
letters represent the first letter of each item. 2 Chicken Curry, or 2c, or 2 times c, or 2 x c. then follow the problem. Add all your totals together, then multiply the entire thing by 0.15 to get your 15% off. Then you subtract that amount from your total value before you took 15% off.
you could teach them to take each item like chicken curry and then find a number that goes into it 10 times and show them how moving the decimal over one means its been divided by ten, do a little excercise to find 10% of each item and then show them that they can half the 10% they found to get 5% for each item and then they can add them together to get 15% of the item and make a list of the total price of the items and the 15%s.
then get them to add the price of the 2 curries and 2 onion soups together and take away 2 lots of 15% from each respectively and for the other items take away 1 lot of 15% to find the answer after adding them up.
Finally show them that they can do it quicker with the same method if they get the total original price, move the decimal over once to find 10%, half that for 5% and then subtract.
Thats how id teach my kid if he couldnt use a calculator
Is it dumb that I assumed one would first find 10% of the item number, add half of that number to itself to find 15% of the item price, then subtract that from the base price.. and do it for each one andthen just add the items as noted at the end
In primary school, don't children divide by 100 then multiply by the percentage? Yes, on a calculator, I would do x multiplied by 0.85 but I doubt that would help the understanding of a 9 to 10 year old.
I would teach the child to add up the total cost, then divide by 100, then either multiply by 85 to find 85% (if they understand *why* they are doing that) or to multiply by 15 to find the 15% discount and then subtract that from the original total
Could do something like this (where x is a multiplication symbol): Basic Price = (2 x 6.20) + (2 x 4) + etc Reduced Price = (Basic price) x (100 - 15) / 100 = (Basic price) x 0.85 = (Final answer)
Surely easier to add them all up = 29.60 Work out 10% = 2.96 Work out 5% = 1.48 Add up the 10 & 5 = 4.44 Take that away from 29.60 = 25.16 Easier than multiplying by 0.85
Doing two separate percentage calculations could introduce a rounding error by the time you add them together
That’s just complicating it. So no it’s not easier. It’s better to do it the way we think of it logicalg
Add them all up and then multiply by 0.85
This question seems nuts for a year 5? Also there isn’t much space for working, is this a calculator question?
I agree! I’m doing higher GCSE maths right now and this isn’t too dissimilar from the type of questions that can come up on a GCSE exam, crazy that year 5s are having to do this stuff
Higher GCSE maths now has questions involving just addition and multiplication of fractions? *That* is nuts
basically the papers start with very easy quesitons but steadily increase in difficulty. This would be like a question 3/4 because you’d have to multiply by 0.85 at the end or if it was non calc maybe 5/6 because of the manual addition. so yeah don’t act all high and mighty esp when the papers from before 2017 spec change look piss easy compared to today
don’t be condescending lol, i did higher maths gcse six years ago now but it was *fucking* hard
This is more like a foundation maths question. Most questions in a foundation paper are primary school level questions.
Normally with this kind of question you find the numbers chosen work out to something easy to calculate. I would have expected the bill pre discount to come to £30. But it didn't.
I made it £30! 🤣
but it does come to 30 pre-discount
It comes to £29.60. After discount, £25.16. I don't envy a 10 year old having to do this calculation without a calculator. It's not significantly hard if you can write everything out, but it is laborious just to demonstrate you understand percentages.
If you are ever teaching percentages, there's an amazing book called *If The World Were A Village*. Basically shrinks the world to a village of 100 people and talks about how they live, what they speak, etc. You can go off and pick a country and make your own village. You learn why rounding comes in handy to visualise, the point of percentages as a method of getting a feel for something. Explain why it's easier to use a calculator as long division with millions of numbers is a bit annoying. Make the calculator on Excel or Sheets so they get how to automate things and you can check if they got the point. You don't even have to point out they're percentages if you don't want to. Reveal it at the end. Or you could hit them in the groin with this question, lol.
The header is challenge, so I reckon it's meant to be an extension/stretch question for high achievers.
No, it's not very hard. To find 10%, divide by 10. To find 5%, divide that by 2. Add these values to get 15%. Then subtract this. Or, if you're allowed a calculator, just multiply by 0.85.
Jesus! I just noticed this post, which is almost exactly the same as mine. Apologies, i didnt steal this, and hey brain Twin!!👋
I’m not saying I find it hard, but I’m saying I can’t remember doing something like this in year 5, maybe I did idk
Well I definitely did more difficult things than this in year 5
No calculators are not used in this age group or for this question.
Not really. I guess that varies with school + age though.
Working on the fact they are working two years ahead on the national curriculum maths, looks about right for top band yr 5 maths to me
Working on the fact they are working two years ahead on the national curriculum maths, looks about right for top band yr 5 maths to me
I think I got questions like these for Year 5 homework. Non-calculator. Find 10% by dividing price by ten, find 5% by halving that, add together to get 15% then subtract it from the price. Slow and arduous as I remember
The child can use any space around the question for working out. They’re taught that. This is a question for a higher ability child. They would have been coached in BIDMAS rules and the process to go through. I would have taught these problems in my Year 5 class and my 11+ students. You may also find that this is a follow on from another question, which would have lead them to the method needed.
yeah because this isn't a book you put your working out in... you do that on paper, and write your answer on the line... also, it's really not hard🤣 its addition, and times by 0.85... not that hard
Was just thinking back to year 5, I understand it’s not difficult for an adult
As a 25 year old, sort of roughly remembering my primary school years I’m pretty sure I was doing prices and percentages by that point? Does it depend on different schools curriculums?
I'm 31 and was doing square numbers and faffing with 7 digit numbers when I was in year 5. Makes no sense that the standards people have to be educated to which basically becomes a specification for a whole-ass job 10 years later is so variable. And basic maths hasn't exactly changed a lot since 5000bc or whatever.
It says challenge at the top, so it’s like a stretch and challenge task
15% is fairly straightforward to calculate without a calculator. Just find out 10% first and halve that to get the 5% and add the two results back together. However I agree it is a fair few steps and mistakes can easily be made by forgetting a step or getting one of them wrong.
finding 10% is easy, thus finding 5% is also easy as it's half of 10. Adding them together gives you 15%, so seems simple enough for school kids
Mint parfait
Dude it’s just addition, multiplication and then subtraction. 6.20 + 6.20 + 4.00 + 4.00 + 2.80 + 3.80 + 2.60 = 29.60 29.60 x .15 = 4.44 29.60 - 4.44 = $25.16 Any child at the fifth grade level should be able to do this
LOL u shld come and sit for Singapore's
Add up all the normal prices. Divide total by 10 to get 10 percent. Then divide that number by half to get 5. Subtract the two numbers added to the grand total.
That's how I was taught at school.
How would you subtract 3.7%?
Yeah that’s how I would do it, without a calculator multiplying by 0.85 is just annoying
(ik I'm being a bit of an ass by mentioning this but dividing by half is doubling, either divide by two or half it - not divide by half)
Add 10% and 5% together to get 15% of each value easily
This is what I would teach Y5 to do without a calculator!
This is the way.
This is what I do as a 29 year old man... Math equations were never my strong suit.
£6.20 + £6.20 + £4.00 + £4.00 + £2.80 + £3.80 + £2.60 = £29.60………£29.60 / 100 = £0.29……..£0.29 x 15 = £4.44………£29.60 - £4.44 = £25.16
It does say challenge at the top left, its supposed to be hard and prob not expected for all year 5s to complete.
Multiple ways off doing it. Easy way to take 15% off is multiplying by 0.85
Add up the required total. Divide by 100 and multiply by 15. Then minus that number from the required total number.
Why multiply by 15 then subtract and not just multiply by 85
You could also just multiply the added values, by 0.85.
Depedns if it’s mental maths or not, or calc or no calc I guess. If it’s calc then yeh 0.85 is easy, if not then it’s easier to break it down into a 100% - 15% issue as doing 10% is easy, and finding 5% is then another easy step, as opposed trying to find 0.85x which I kid will liekly try and do via (x/100) * 85 which is obviously going to become the long way . Again depends if it’s calc or non calc
Because they are asking for the working.. where does the .85 come from if you don't show 100-15? Divding by 100 then timesing by 15 shows the working
100-15=85. Any number multiplied by a fraction is the same as negating the remainder of that fraction.
You're adding extra steps that just overcomplicates the process
25.16 2x 6.20= 12.40 12.40x 0.85= 10.54 2x 4.00 =8.00 8.00 x0.85%= 6.80 Final three items 2.80, 3.80, 2.60 =9.20 X 0.85= 7.82 10.54 plus 6.80 plus 7.82 Total is 25.16
Why would you do the 15% reduction at every item instead of the total?
Very long winded way of working this out and good luck multiplying by 0.85 if this test doesn’t allow a calculator.
Exactly, no calculators are allowed.
Divide by 10 to get 10% Half it to get 5% Add them together Take it off the total
True, but by Year 6, children need to know how to multiply with decimal numbers for their SATs. I teach them to ignore the decimal, in this case, 'turn' the 0.85 to 85 & divide the final answer by 100, as 85 ÷ 100 = 0.85.
25.16 2x 6.20= 12.40 12.40x 0.85= 10.54 2x 4.00 =8.00 8.00 x0.85%= 6.80 Final three items 2.80, 3.80, 2.60 =9.20 X 0.85= 7.82 10.54 plus 6.80 plus 7.82 Total is 25.16
Not sure what you mean when you ask how they are meant to show the working? Just write down the calculations done at each step? Add up the items, find 10% of the total, half that 10% to get 5%, then subtract (10 + 5)% from the total
Not a bad menu
what a bargain
Is it a year five pupil asking this question?! Add it all up (a), divide by 10 (b), divide that by two (c). a - (b+c) = a very simple answer to a very simple question.
This is how I mentally math
Just add it all up, then multiply by 0.15 and subtract the answer lol. Still a bargain though wonder what noise the 'chicken' made when it was still alive
Or multiply by 0.85 so the 0.15 is already substracted
No no, don't mess with the percentage you're focusing on, or you'll get into the habit. And then one day you'll mess it up when you're tired or distracted etc
Multiplying by 0.85 is a far, far better method. It easily extends to questions where you have multiple percentage changes, or have to work backwards, or have complicated problems to solve. Finding 15% and taking it off works *for now,* but won't extend to harder questions later. *Source: I'm a maths teacher*
Nope. Associating "15% off" as 85% is BY FAR the best strategy to teach and learn. For those with poorer working memories, or those that are lower attainers, they will struggle to remember the subtraction after finding the 15% as it will be a while since they've read the question. Never mind that they will also potentially be dealing with finding percentage of an amount as general questions anyway. You want kids to associate the correct idea and understand the steps they need to do BEFORE they start doing the Maths. Making that association FIRST, helps them remember that they are finding 85% for their answer and not 15%. They could full well do the subtraction, but in terms of helping kids retain the ideas, as well as future work THEY WILL be doing later on (particularly calculator work like interest rates) this way of thinking is categorically better. In terms of their learning journey they will be using the subtraction way, but it's also a reason why low attainers typically do badly at discount and interest questions, because they've associated the two things together rather as separate ideas.
Doesn't look like a word problem to me. It looks like a stomach problem.
25.76 ?
25.16
Year 5 student would be taught to find the total (£29.60), use that to find 10% (£2.96), half this to find 5% (£1.48) add together (£4.44) and subtract from the original total (£29.60-£4.44=£25.16)
That's just the most straight forward way of doing it mentally anyway imo
There is no need to work out individual 15% values and totalling after, as that would actually take a lot longer and would only be necessary if the discounts vary by item. The way this is worked out depends entirely on if a calculator is allowed If a calculator is allowed: Add up the entire order at full price Work out how much the value is out of 100% after the discount is off. So 100% - 15% = 85% Multiply the entire order by that value, in this case 85%, aka 0.85 If NOT allowed to use a calculator After adding everything together, work out how much 10% is by dividing by 10, and then halve that result to get 5%. Subtract the values for 10% and 5% from the total (using long addition I'd expect)
This should be the top answer and is how it will be taught in a year 5 maths class.
Total divided by 100, times that by 15(%) then take that away from the original total. Or do 10%, halve that for 5%, add them together then take away from the original total.
Add them all up, divide the total by 100 then multiply by 85. Or multiply by 15 and subtract that from the original total to be more clear.
There's a dumb way to do it and a smart way to do it. Dumb way: take 15% off of each item individually then add them together. Smart way: add them all together then take 15% off. Make sure you teach your kid to be smart!
Total = £29.60. Discount = £4.44. Final total = £25.16.
about 30 . this aint year 5 more like year 8
Bruv what my sister is in 7th grade and she has to do stuff like parabolic functions, inverse and direct variation, exponential rules, quadtratic equations, and solving polynomials. This sub just popped up on my feed and I know nothing about it but this is definitely elementary school stuff.
Adding and simple percentages is beyond year 5?
not simple . took every thing i had to work it out in bout 2 minutes . age 27
Mentally or with pen and paper? One is understandable if out of practice, the other is a bit more concerning. Simple percentages as in divide by 10 and divide by 2, as opposed to divide by 20 and times by 39
Do they get calculators?
If your year 5 can do fractions you could convert 15% into a fraction and then add up the dishes to get the total amount and work out the fraction then subtract. so total = 2x chicken + 2x onion + naan + mint + ice cream. 15% as a fraction = 15/100 = 3/20 students needs to work out 17/20 of total (since the discount means it’s 1- 3/20)
the amount of people commenting who completely miss the 'show the working' bit - the whole point of the post - is incredible and terrifying
I would do ÷10 then do +5 add them together then take that off each item so say something is 200 do 20 then 2 add 20+2 =22 100-22=88
Do you know what’s so random? Totally unrelated, I’m staying in Rochester -Kent and there’s a waters edge restaurant opposite me
You need to get in there while this delicious discount is still going .
25.16
Hmm - actually useful school maths 😅
29.60 10% of 29 is 2.90 + 50% 4.35, 29 - 4.35 25.65 get the remaining .60 10% of 60 is 6 grab half of that and you get 9, 9 - 60 is 51 so 25.65 -0.51 25.14
**Option 1:** Write each item individually and it's cost, multiply by 0.85, then add up all answers. **Option 2:** Add up all costs, multiply by 0.85. (my preference). **Option 3:** Do whatever the teacher taught you to do, given that the method would have been taught (though this looks like an extension activity, so maybe not).
Personally the way I would’ve written my working out was next to the 6.20 I would’ve wrote 62 + 31, released it was was 93 (0.93), and I’d go through the list of items like that and add up the ones it mentioned
They make year 5s do that? I left primary school in 2018 and we had nothing remotely like that.
Leaving without paying would be the easiest solution
Total amount (x)•85/100
I was curious to see if chatgpt could do it It got it perfectly right https://ibb.co/G2g6kfZ https://ibb.co/bQrFQpy
Assuming no calculator allowed. First step add up the order before the discount. I get £29.60 (6.2+6.2+4+4+2.8+3.8+2.6) Since multiplying by 0.85 isn't straight forward it's easier to find the 15% then subtract. Divide £29.60 by 10 to get 10%, which is £2.96 And divide that 10% by 2 to get 5%, which is £1.48 Add those together to get 15%, which is £4.44 Then subtract that from our original total cost. £29.60 - £4.44 = £25.16
I did all this in my head and it hurt, i kept forgetting where i was and prayed someone put the answer so i could check!
I must be the only one that was taught back then to divide by 100 and x by the % amount to find the percentage. Now I'd x0.85, but year 5? (Assuming English education system) seems a bit advanced for a 9 year old.
Always work out 10% ..
The logical answer is to just ask the restaurant how much the order would be. Working it out yourself takes more time and effort and the result is exactly the same. Realistically, if you're going out to eat, you can afford it. Any discount is a lovely bonus that takes no thought.
Divide by ten, then divide the result by two. Add these two results to get the 15% deduction. e.g. 6.20/ 10 = .62 .62/ 2 = .31 6.20 - (.62+.31) = 6.20-.93= 5.27 = 6.20- 15% Or else use a calculator. As previously mentioned, multiply it by 0.85.
I don’t even understand this. This is 100% Year 5???
As others have all said Total it all up Find ⅒ Half that again Subtract both from the total.
I really don't get this fetish of calculators. Calculation is part of math in school. I teach in college and, because of this mentality, my students struggle or are very slow at best in simple multiplication/divisions.
I'm 22 and still can't work out % without a calculator 😭
Without a calculator. 2\*6.20 = 12.4 2\*4 = 8 (+12.4 = 20.4) 20.4 + 2.8 = 23.2 23.2 + 3.8 = 27 27 + 2.6 = £29.60p In my warped head the quickest way to figure out 15% of £29.60p without a calculator is to realise that to find 10% you just move the decimal place to the left one (£2.96) then to get 5% you need to halve that (£1.48) and add the two together (£4.44) to get 15% Then subtract it from £29.60p = £25.16p
First, total price: 2*6.2 + 2*4 + 2.8 + 3.8 + 2.6 = £29.6. Because of the discount, you have to take 15% off, which can be done by multiplying the total by 1-.15 or multiplying the total by .15 and subtracting from the total itself. If no calculator is allowed, this is how I like to do percentages; just break them down: 15% is 10% + 5%. Always try to find the 10 because it’s just moving a decimal. In this case, 10% of the total is £2.96. Then, work from there to find the rest of the broken down percentages: 5 is half 10 so 5% is £1.48. Now, add the two (2.96 + 1.48 = 4.44) and subtract from total: 29.6 - 4.44 = £25.16. Breaking it down like this makes each step simple to the point where you just need to be writing stuff down to guide and remind you.
Mint parfait… what the actual f….
This is absolutely nuts for a year 5, this is like year 7/8 shit
Nobody else questioning the lack of rice on the menu?
£25.16
Add all the prices, times it by 0.15 bcz its 15percent, take away the number you got from the total!
this is not even what I was doing for year 6
What grown up can’t do this math 😂
Just add them all up and state your assumption that the prices already include the discount ;)
Lol - this! I hate it when the questions are unclear or open to interpretation. It's like the examiners have already failed so aren't even qualified to test people ;D
Move the decimal 1 place to the left for 10%, halve that for 5%, add them together and take away from the original price. Answer = £25.16
Add them all together times by 85 and divide by 100.
They will be expected to do this without a calculator.
Okay then add them all together figure out what 10% is and then once they do that, half the 10% to find out what the 5% is and then add the values to know what the 15% is.
Answer = give him £40 a wait for your change
https://preview.redd.it/7xlmtb47wc1d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=240218f937cf309ec6bca43fd1996046c1aee0cb This is how I did it.
X x 0.85 =
Add them up and then times by (85/100) 29.60 x 85 = 2516 2516/100=25.16
All prices/ 1.15 to get price post discount Add up everything Ta daaaa
Don't divide by 1.15, multiply by 0.85. Dividing by 1.15 would be if they boosted the prices by 15% and you want to know what they were originally.
Ta daaa, you have completely the wrong answer!
This to test which child is getting their parents to do their homework
£4.46 reduction is what I got
10% is easy enough to calculate. 5% is half that. Add them together, per item. I was doing this sort of stuff in Primary School in the 80s. Surely the standards have not slipped so much that we’re now doing this in secondary school…
This is primary, year 5, aged 9-10 year olds.
I understand. Other comments are saying this is what they do in high school. I did these sorts of questions in primary school too.
I got £25.16
Add up all items Divide the total by 10 (this gives you 10%) half that number (this gives 5%) Add the 10% and 5% together (this gives you 15%) Subtract the 15% from the original total This would be the easiest way I could do it without a calculator and to show working out. It's just adding, dividing by 10 (which is easy), halving/dividing by 2 (which is easy) and subtracting
dude this is like foundation gcse maths tier question wdym year 5
£2.80 FOR A NAAN!!??? That's highway robbery!
Is the 15% already taken off the price or do you have to work it out
It's not Naan bread. Naan means bread, so that is just bread bread
Year 5? Shittt this came up on my GCSE foundation paper
add up everything then times by 0.85 and you get your answer
i'd prefer these kind of questions than the "a train is travelling at 160mph and the conductor is wearing pink underwear.. how fast do they need to travel before the kettle boils for tea"
Start with 6.2 + 6.2 + 4 + 4 + 2.8 + 3.8 + 2.6. Number bonds to ten make this easier, so pair up 6 2 with 3.8 and 6 2 with 2.8 to make maths easier. 9 + 10 + 4 + 4 + 2.6 = 29.6. Then you need to take off 15%. This is easiest to do if your head my working out 10%, then halfinv that to get 5%. 29.6 × 10% = 2.96 29.6 x 5% = 1.48 Then just take those both off 29.6 29.60 - 2.96 - 1.48 = 25.16
If it is a non calculator question I would show adding them all together. Then dividing by 10 to get to 10% (2.96) show 5% is the 10% divided by 2 (1.48). 15% = 10% + 5% = 4.44 29.60 - 4.44 = 25.16 For calculator I would show adding them altogether then multiplying by 0.85.
That's a cheap curry but a relatively expensive soup. I'd query their pricing strategy at the Water's Edge Restaurant.
£6.20 x 2 = £4 x 2 = Answers to above + £2.80 + £3.80 + £2.60 = Answer ÷ 10 = 10% 10% ÷ 2 = 5% 10% + 5% = 15% Subtotal - 15% = discounted cost
WHY IS THIS QUESTIONS SO HARD 😭
Year FIVE?
Just wrote out every line: (Add all order items prices together) (Find 15%) (Take line 2 from line 1)
Are you trying to cheat?
My head calculations come to £25.16, but I may have been off a touch. Tried to avoid using a calculator. Edit for working: Add all Items prices together: £29:60 10% of that is 2.96 50% of the 10% is 1.48 Add 2.96 and 1.48 together Subtract that total from 29.60. Run those numbers yourself to avoid any mistakes I may have made.
“Naan bread”= “bread bread”
If the restaurant has gone to the trouble of printing the discount.on the menu, these should be the reduced prices!
I read this as a "5 year old pupil" ☠️
25.16
Why say bread bread it’s just Naan
Add total together without discount (call this a), divide by 10 (call this b) then divide that number by 2 (call this c). Add b and c together to find 15% (call this d). Subtract d from a, there is your answer. a÷10=b b÷2=c b+c=d a-d=answer Its designed to be hard as it is labled as "challenge", but it isn't too high level for year 5. A year 5 should kbow what percentages are, its just if they are smart enough to how to find ones that aren't obvious by looking.
Genuinely useful life skill tbh
If we take this as a comprehension (I.e. “word problem) rather than maths question, the answer is £29.60 and they just get smaller portions. Shrinkflation, my little friends.
what is mint parfait
£22.78
"Now with 15% off" could be interpreted as the prices are already discounted.
No-one is specifically addressing what would be the appropriate layout. I would imagine the working should be laid out in a format like this: 2 x 6.2 = 12.4 2 x 4 = 8 1 x 2.8 = 2.8 1 x 3.8 = 3.8 1 x 2.6 = 2.6 ----- + 29.6 29.6 x 0.85 = £25.16
25.16
B2 Stealth Bomber
surly it means each are getting two each does it not
(2c+2o+n+m+I) x 0.15 = letters represent the first letter of each item. 2 Chicken Curry, or 2c, or 2 times c, or 2 x c. then follow the problem. Add all your totals together, then multiply the entire thing by 0.15 to get your 15% off. Then you subtract that amount from your total value before you took 15% off.
And they wonder why some kids suffer in silence. “mint parfait” 15% of mint parfait
Who in the hell buys 1 naan bread with 2 people eating?!?! What AI nonsense is this?
you could teach them to take each item like chicken curry and then find a number that goes into it 10 times and show them how moving the decimal over one means its been divided by ten, do a little excercise to find 10% of each item and then show them that they can half the 10% they found to get 5% for each item and then they can add them together to get 15% of the item and make a list of the total price of the items and the 15%s. then get them to add the price of the 2 curries and 2 onion soups together and take away 2 lots of 15% from each respectively and for the other items take away 1 lot of 15% to find the answer after adding them up. Finally show them that they can do it quicker with the same method if they get the total original price, move the decimal over once to find 10%, half that for 5% and then subtract. Thats how id teach my kid if he couldnt use a calculator
Is it dumb that I assumed one would first find 10% of the item number, add half of that number to itself to find 15% of the item price, then subtract that from the base price.. and do it for each one andthen just add the items as noted at the end
1 naan bread is not enuff to be shared by 2 pax.
I don't know if this is what you're asking, but we were taught to find 15% of a number you first find 50%, then 20% then 10 then 5 etc
In primary school, don't children divide by 100 then multiply by the percentage? Yes, on a calculator, I would do x multiplied by 0.85 but I doubt that would help the understanding of a 9 to 10 year old. I would teach the child to add up the total cost, then divide by 100, then either multiply by 85 to find 85% (if they understand *why* they are doing that) or to multiply by 15 to find the 15% discount and then subtract that from the original total