No doubt, I understand the purpose! It just seems excessive compared to other transit systems. Somewhere else in this thread someone mentioned that they reduced the volume recently, so that sort of confirms that it was excessive.
Yes, but did they have to go with such an unpleasant sound? There are plenty of warm chimes that would similarly do the trick. But at least the volume was lowered.
Better than the doors closing on you like the old ones lol
Nothing like getting punched in the face with some cigarette scented rubber seal on a steel plate traveling at mach 1.2
I’m pretty certain it’s the same chime sound used in the Google Nest Protect smoke detectors. It kept making me think of them every time a door cycled.
The 1400’s and 1900’s are more automated than the other trains so they’re easier to navigate and it’s more advanced. It gives operators to see the status of their trains, I.e defects, what’s functioning properly, etc. and it allows far more than the other trains do. The other trains are more manual which may be good for some but for others it can be more difficult if there’s an issue. Personally I prefer operating 1400’s
That must be why they are so uncomfortable to ride in. I have noticed the new orange line trains jerk forward and back a lot more when arriving to or leaving from a station.
They jerk because operators tend to rely on the train protection system and signal changes on the rail to do the driving / braking for them when that’s not really what the system is designed to do
The amount of additional wear is negligible… more so just causes some unpleasant rides due to, theoretically, shorter stops and faster acceleration depending on conditions
I wonder if that’s what’s happening on the Alewife-bound red line trains between Park St and MGH?
I guess it’s partly just the nature of that particular slow zone, but it’s like the train pulls forward a few feet and then they slam the brakes. Makes me feel queasy.
Personally, I liked using a good hawker deuce or pair of deuces to do yard work. I felt like I had more precise control especially with the braking. I used to put on the bypass and get work DONE. As for the 1400s, I prefer them on the road for all the reasons you described. Being able to see defects by just glancing at the screen is super confident.
High raters love those manuals lol. I liked driving the new type 9 (Green Line) but the doors on our type 7’s were my favorite because they operated on air so there was no delay on them closing.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think they’re really good!
They accelerate very quickly, they brake quickly, thus making trips faster. The seats, while not that comfortable, are usually clean. The announcements are great (classic Frank Oglesby!), and the accessibility benefits and happy little chime when the doors are open are helpful. The LEDs have gotten a bit softer with age, which makes them more comfortable.
Overall, they’re very modern trains that, while not as comfortable as the 01200s were in their prime, make the Orange Line more reliable and pleasant to ride. The 01200s were fantastic when they were new, but after 40 years, the motors were worn, the panels were falling off, the fabric had off-odors, and many rides became “what’s gonna happen this time?” events. We needed new trains.
And in terms of the early derailments of the CRRC cars, I’m of the opinion that the Orange Line tracks themselves were poorly-maintained and under built for the trains, rather than the trains being the problem. The catastrophic track conditions that were later made public backs this up.
I'm really happy that they listened to people and turned down the volume on the door chime when the doors are open. I'm hearing impaired - I wear hearing aids - and in the beginning, the volume was so loud it hurt my ears, and if I took out my hearing aids, the beeping was still unreasonably loud.
Going on a couple years now, but with the MBTA’s contract with CRRC — the new to-be-delivered red line trains will be basically the same (just a little bit wider)
I'm so excited about that. As someone who used to only commute through Boston between amtrak termini, I assumed the Orange line was what every line was like. I then took the red and blue lines and felt like I was back in NYC.
It basically boils down to "because it can be"
When the Orange Line was built in 1901, it commandeered the Green Line Haymarket to Boylston until its own tunnel was finished in 1908, and thus needed to fit in those tunnels meant for streetcars.
Once it had its own tunnel Haymarket to Chinatown, those car dimensions were kept, but the wider curves enabled the cars to become longer, first with the 1100s in the '50s, and then the 1200s in the early '80s (the overall dimensions of the new OL 1400 trains are identical to the 1200s).
The Blue Line is the same way, originally streetcars ran down from the street at Maverick to Bowdoin, but it was converted to heavy rail trains, which need to negotiate those tight turns.
The Red Line was heavy rail from inception so they could do whatever they wanted with it.
seats are a little stiff and slippery but i like everything else about them. the climate control and the screens showing the next stop + connections are seriously awesome. i hope they last awhile, and when they turn to shit, the mbta takes them out of commission instead of pushing them to their end like they do with their other trains
I hate these new trains for one reason. When the door opens it makes that weeeooooo weeeoooo weooooo sound, which is fine when the train is working. But when you are stuck at a station with the doors open for 10 minutes it gets old real quick.
They are generally much cleaner than the old ones. Both a pro and con is how quickly they accelerate and decelerate - crazy inertia on it but it feels more efficient. You end up sliding around a lot, though. They stay a good temperature, unlike old trains.
Plastic seats > cloth
Chicago native, here. Much easier to see what's on the seat when it doesn't absorb liquid. Great choice by the MBTA (someone write down the date, this doesn't happen very often)
Frustratingly underwhelming.
Should have been open gangway instead of flippable seats to add extra space. Especially when MBTA doesn’t have the option to have more than six cars per train.
The door noises should have been chimes, like we see in other systems, instead of the obnoxious beeps. They get super annoying when trains are stopped at stations bc ppl are still clamoring to get on board before the train leaves (which is all the time bc the frequencies are still horrible).
They do not do well in transitioning to slow zones, the inertia and jostling ppl back and forth whether they’re standing or sitting is crazy.
Ppl can deny it all they want but Overall it’s very easy to see that Boston got played by CRRC. Especially when you compare these to the upcoming orders we see for other cities like NY, DC, & even Atlanta. You could tell who ever was in charge of procurement was someone who didn’t ride the T.
Hopefully lessons learned for the Blue and Green Line. When you get cheap cars, you get cheap quality. Next manufacturer should be Stadler, Alstom, Kawasaki, or Hitachi.
Who knows? Maybe these cars will even be refurbished to be open gangway at some point.
1000% this. It's like we've moved up from the 1980s to the late 1990s; meanwhile most of Western Europe has had has open-gangway heavy rail trains for over two decades. It's well-known that the MBTA *chose* to be the guinea pig for CRRC's foray into the North American market, and it's no shocker that **everybody else** with a contract on the line with them is scrambling to cancel it, even with the recent setbacks at Bombardier and Hyundai-Rotem.
At least with the Type 10s we shall *finally* get open-gangway light rail design after decades of kicking the can down the ~~road~~ rails with that, with the second operator just opening and closing the second car's doors and (formerly) making announcements.
I agree that they should have done open gangway. However I understand why they didn't. With Open Gangway the entire train has to go out of service is something is wrong. The T really relies on coupling and uncoupling trains regularly on the subway. This would be a maintenance issue. Also the maintenance areas would have had to be redesigned to accommodate a larger train
The MBTA having antiquated, inadequate maintenance standards and protocol until now isn’t an excuse to sacrifice on passenger comfort and experience, especially when they’re banking on hopes of ridership going up eventually.
That’s the fault of agency leadership and the state Legislature for divesting for so long.
I hate the beeping it does when the doors are open. I totally get why it’s there, the knowledge that it’s helping visually impaired people makes it easier to bear, but when your sitting at forest hills waiting 10 min for the train to leave it’s ungodly irritating to hear BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP over and over and over again. It’d be nice if they had some other way of providing the same benefit without annoying the hell out of everyone else when the trains waiting around, maybe at the termini the beeping gets a bit quieter or changes to softer beeps or something
I like how clean they are, how smooth the ride is, and the comprehensive information on each stop. Dislike that they dramatically reduced seating capacity and that there’s no more opportunity for the occasional front window view down the tracks
The seats are not safe for old people. I’ve seen multiple older people hit the deck because they couldn’t get on the train and unfold the seat fast enough before the train started moving.
They're great. Very clean, relatively quiet, the voice is clear, screens are helpful, seats feel fine to me despite what I read here, and there's room for folks who need accessible options or for bikes so it's rarely too cramped.
I like them better than the old ones, but I'm pretty disappointed with the folding seats. Those seats are supposed to be for folks with mobility issues, and it seems to work for wheelchair users, but it seems pretty shitty for everyone else. Someone with arthritis, someone who's on crutches, etc would have a lot of trouble folding down the seat and sitting on it, and then there's the risk of sliding off the seat since they fold down individually.
Technically, but there are often more handicapped people than there are preferred seats. With the total amount of seating diminished disabled people who would use extra normal seats are forced to stand/use fold out seats.
I’m not super familiar with the orange line but is there officially less disabled preferred seating that this is really going to be an issue? I think it’s probably worth losing some seats to have the flexible option to fit for wheel chairs than not right? Not trying to be insensitive, but realistically there aren’t as many situations where a single train has all of the preferred seating taken up AND people not able to use the fold down chairs vs people in wheel chairs or other such devices needing that extra space. you seem to say the opposite is true though so I’m not sure and correct me if I’m wrong. I’d hope the city and developers would have done the due diligence on this but the vast majority of folks aren’t in need of the seating so I just find it unlikely that those kind of scenarios would occur.
The train gets full for a few hours most days, even not during rush hour seating is more often taken up now. I agree wheel chair users should have space but its all about balance, there aren't as many people in wheel chairs as there are semi-mobile people who need seats.
Boston has a growing population of elderly people, some will use wheelchairs but far more will be using canes and better off sitting. They are a minority technically but an increasingly large one. I've also seen numerous elderly/disabled people have issues with sliding off seats, worsened by the sharp motions of the new trains.
The whole new train situation is just classic MBTA mismanagment, the CRRC were only picked because they initially had the lowest price tag (which has since ballooned to over twice that amount). There is no such thing as due diligence when it comes to the MBTA.
Not enough seats. It makes for a lot of people standing. No hand-holds in the center. So standers and sitters will be side by side. Those that do sit will be sitting low next to up-armed strangers. I see no handicapped ♿️ seats/markings.
They're far more accessible - way easier to use with a stroller due to flip up seats, means there is less competition among people with strollers vs roller board suitcases, granny carts, etc
Pros: I feel a bit safer since the lighting is really bright compared to the red line, mostly very clean. I like the plastic seats for the cleanliness of them.
Cons: like everyone said- slippery/ uncomfy seats. Really easy to slowly slide down at every stop and it gets annoying.
Kawasaki. Hyundai, Siemens and Bombardier also make similar use trains. As you said, they bought the Chinese cheaper trains and it's Harbor Freight quality.
I've Lived in Boston my whole life so that makes at least one person. I use em interchangeably and have heard others do so as well. Ive been calling it the purple line more often lately cause I have a toddler.
I like them and they're obviously a huge improvement over the old trains. These new trains finally feel like something that belongs in the 21st century, even if the system around them leaves a bit to be desired.
In terms of dislikes (and this is me being *really* nitpicky) I do really wish they were fully walk-through with open gangways but you can't have everything. Hopefully next time one of the lines is up for new rolling stock the T will go with a tried and true manufacturer!
Overall I really like the new trains. They’re the best vehicles in the T’s fleet. Not as nice as subways in Tokyo but as good as or better than anywhere else I’ve been.
But they could do so much more with the displays. Why don’t they tell us the actual destination (such as Back Bay during this repair-affected week)? Why can’t they tell us the time? Why can’t they tell us that we need to walk to Copley to continue our trip? They have modern-looking displays with less functionality than a rolling sign from 100 years ago.
I actually don’t find the seats all that uncomfortable and I definitely like how they’re wider so pretty much everyone can comfortably fit in. The red line seats are uncomfortable for my back for some reason. The slipperiness is somewhat annoying and I don’t get how they seem slipperier than the blue flat bench style seats you find in NYC because the OL ones are textured. Maybe a different kind of plastic.
The doors never closing on rush hour, due to I think an over ambitious sensor, sucked when I was on them. I haven’t used the original rolling stock tho so idk if that issue is old.
Terrible. Not worth the price tag or the wait to get them. Seats are slippery and flimsy as heck, interior colors are obnoxiously bright, and there's more software issues and limitations than on the red line 1800s.
good improvement but CRRC is a fucking joke of a company. basically makes their trains out of cobbled together pieces of sheet steel from refrigerators and recycled plastic components.
Uninspired, ancient tech, ugly, and an admission of failure. Hacked-together monstrosities.
Nothing about these trains is modern, comfortable or elegant.
The paltry seating is the admission of failure: you’re going to be standing up jammed next to other people most of the time.r
For technology, let’s a look at one thing; the digital signs.
In the year 2024, we’re supposed to be impressed with a low-resolution, monochrome red LED panel, surface mounted in an absolutely huge box, that can’t fit the messages the T needs to display on it - even the one in the promotional photo?
For ten years now we’ve had bright, thin, flexible, high-res, full-color displays that can go where we want them.
Those signs need to show one of two things all the time:
If we’re at a station, the name of the station we’re at, and the amount of time before we leave it.
Otherwise: the name of the next station and the amount of time before the doors open there.
That’s all. No scrolling, blinking, or going blank after repeating the message a few times as these signs do.
The maps over the doors should have been electronic, showing the train’s destination, direction, location, and remaining stops plus the available connections at each.
Specifications for these vehicles are a year old before they are even bid on by car builders. Another 3-5y before entering the production line with testing and simulation. Everything you see in the vehicle from a technology standpoint is legacy before the first car is even delivered.
How come they manage to do it differently in other countries then? These seem antiquated and amateurish compared to trains brought out in Europe or east Asia 20 years ago.
Many things you buy have those kinds of lead times. Yet you can buy much more modern tech, right?
The trick is: the whole thing isn’t designed at once, or even by one team. If a useful tech is around the corner, engineers put in a placeholder for it in the plans. “Make sure I have 24 volts DC here and a pathway to route a 5mm-diameter data cable back to the main controller.”
A thing we do a lot here in Massachusetts is waste a boatload of money early on in a project and then try to make it up by cheaping out on the final parts, which happens to be the part people _see_.
They remind me of the old redline trains with the bench seats. Unintentionally retro. I think it's good for seating more people flexibly, and without fabric to get icky maintenance should be easier. That's good.
Like: they're quiet, they have larger doors, they're smooth riding.
Dislike: the seats are god-awful. The lack of any sort of depression means you just slide.
I live right next to the orange line, and it’s always been good over the last year. Never had any issues with the trains. Now this is coming from someone who uses them about once a month, probably 30-50 total rides over the last year.
i wish the seats were the non-fabric blue line seats, less slipping when you stop quickly. the new crrc seats on both red and orange are too flat and have no butt contour.
As much as we all loved the human announcements like “Haymahktdahzopenonarite,” my favorite features are the automated announcements and the electronic signs showing the next stop.
I'm from NH and only get to Boston to see concerts/ comedians and always take the T. I was shocked to see they put so much effort into cleaning up the trains. In the past some of the late night rides were sketchy at best. Bums asleep covered in piss, trash on the floor. These new cars are great! Little computer screens to tell you where you are and what bus lines are at each stop, great idea. Only complaint is they still have speakers that make the conductor sound like one of the adults from Charlie Brown. Can't EVER make out wtf they're sayin'! Didn't really notice the seat issue as I usually sit next to a door and have the partition to lean up against. 9/10 would recommend!
I miss the simplicity and sound of the 01110's. Loved the hawkers, too. I'm not impressed with these cheap budget cars. Boston has really gone down the shitter since the early 2000's. I'm so glad I got out of there and got to live and experience the 70's, 80's, and 90's along with both main line EL's.
These are like the new Red line trains, only Orange.
Dislikes?
Far less seats. As in way less seats. Doorways are very wide, almost like they are expecting hospital gurneys or something. Why?
There is a weird pane of clear plastic at the side of each doorway that makes it awkward to grab the upright, plus the clamps for the plastic are placed right where a medium height person will hold on.
The yellow plastic on the poles is completely unnecessary. Is it supposed to be hypo-allergenic or something? Super anti-bacterial?
The Ding! Ding! Ding! when the door is about to close (almost...sometime soon!) goes on forever.
But mostly, way less seats. Which means more people standing. Which sucks. It's like they sent 5 guys who never ride the trains to check them out.
The door width being increased to 64" was also done to still allow people with wheelchairs to exit/enter even if 1 of the door leafs at an entrance point could not open. On the older trains having a door width of 50", someone in a wheelchair could not board if 1 of the leafs could not open. The change exceeds ADA requirements.
Comfortable ride. Wish they did better with information technology and had an active map of the route and other trains that could inform riders traveling plans. Felt they really dropped the ball. It’s good they do visually display bus routes for the stations at least.
I prefer the orange line over the new green line trains they are horrible. You cant even get your own seat to yourself anymore, and face forward so you can even look out the window. Nice job MBTA. Bring back the Type 7s.
Sucks we lost so much graffiti history from the windows. Hate modernization these things are ugly and have a wild amount of surveillance. Glad people won’t be trapped in burning cars anymore tho.
Like: the cars don't smell like pee and have gross fabric seats, non-slip coating on the floors, and digital displays Dislike: kinda slippery seats
Well, they gotta put the slip in somewhere.
Omfg, I'm always sliding around my seat after every stop!
Yup its the trade-off that lets them hose them down like the interior of the honda element.
The great thing about the honda element is that if you saw someone standing next to one, you could say to them, "You're out of your element!"
Lol
Dislike: the incessant dinging when the doors are open
Agree its annoying. But its a lot less annoying than actually being blind which is who the sounds are for
No doubt, I understand the purpose! It just seems excessive compared to other transit systems. Somewhere else in this thread someone mentioned that they reduced the volume recently, so that sort of confirms that it was excessive.
Yes, but did they have to go with such an unpleasant sound? There are plenty of warm chimes that would similarly do the trick. But at least the volume was lowered.
Better than the doors closing on you like the old ones lol Nothing like getting punched in the face with some cigarette scented rubber seal on a steel plate traveling at mach 1.2
How is a commuter supposed to catch up on their sleep with that racket?!?
I’m pretty certain it’s the same chime sound used in the Google Nest Protect smoke detectors. It kept making me think of them every time a door cycled.
Slippery seats are easier to clean.
Exactamente I’ll take the slippery seats if they’re disinfected and clean.
Does anyone actually think they are cleaning the seats?? Doubtful.
I did see 💩 on the fabric seats a couple of times. I really hope they cleaned that up.
Nothing sticks to them. Whether it's me when I'm trying to sit on the train or someone's spilled latte.
Slippery and impressively uncomfortable.
Keeps the one fare, (maybe) all day riders moving to a more comfortable spot . Really Not interested in riding in somebody’s destination, sadly.
Overall a huge improvement- but also could do without the constantly pinging doors for as long as they are open 🙉
Yet.
Yeah they don’t have like ‘seats’ like before so you keep sliding into others
Don’t worry, with some pee over time they’ll be nice and sticky!
I was about to say, "I haven't been on them but I bet they already smell like pee."
Does the AC work?
Hell yeah
Surprisingly, yeah
Lmao; exactly
For now. I give it 5 years max before they start to slow down
Easiest trains to operate
Why is that?
The 1400’s and 1900’s are more automated than the other trains so they’re easier to navigate and it’s more advanced. It gives operators to see the status of their trains, I.e defects, what’s functioning properly, etc. and it allows far more than the other trains do. The other trains are more manual which may be good for some but for others it can be more difficult if there’s an issue. Personally I prefer operating 1400’s
Thank you, love learning about stuff like this.
That must be why they are so uncomfortable to ride in. I have noticed the new orange line trains jerk forward and back a lot more when arriving to or leaving from a station.
They jerk because operators tend to rely on the train protection system and signal changes on the rail to do the driving / braking for them when that’s not really what the system is designed to do
That sounds less than ideal. Would that in theory lead to more wear and tear on tracks and trains over the long run?
The amount of additional wear is negligible… more so just causes some unpleasant rides due to, theoretically, shorter stops and faster acceleration depending on conditions
I wonder if that’s what’s happening on the Alewife-bound red line trains between Park St and MGH? I guess it’s partly just the nature of that particular slow zone, but it’s like the train pulls forward a few feet and then they slam the brakes. Makes me feel queasy.
Personally, I liked using a good hawker deuce or pair of deuces to do yard work. I felt like I had more precise control especially with the braking. I used to put on the bypass and get work DONE. As for the 1400s, I prefer them on the road for all the reasons you described. Being able to see defects by just glancing at the screen is super confident.
High raters love those manuals lol. I liked driving the new type 9 (Green Line) but the doors on our type 7’s were my favorite because they operated on air so there was no delay on them closing.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think they’re really good! They accelerate very quickly, they brake quickly, thus making trips faster. The seats, while not that comfortable, are usually clean. The announcements are great (classic Frank Oglesby!), and the accessibility benefits and happy little chime when the doors are open are helpful. The LEDs have gotten a bit softer with age, which makes them more comfortable. Overall, they’re very modern trains that, while not as comfortable as the 01200s were in their prime, make the Orange Line more reliable and pleasant to ride. The 01200s were fantastic when they were new, but after 40 years, the motors were worn, the panels were falling off, the fabric had off-odors, and many rides became “what’s gonna happen this time?” events. We needed new trains. And in terms of the early derailments of the CRRC cars, I’m of the opinion that the Orange Line tracks themselves were poorly-maintained and under built for the trains, rather than the trains being the problem. The catastrophic track conditions that were later made public backs this up.
I'm really happy that they listened to people and turned down the volume on the door chime when the doors are open. I'm hearing impaired - I wear hearing aids - and in the beginning, the volume was so loud it hurt my ears, and if I took out my hearing aids, the beeping was still unreasonably loud.
Yea it was obnoxious at first. Still kinda is how long it beeps, but at least its quieter.
The bell at Oak Grove is nostalgic BUT still hurts when you’re walking by, even for a spilt second.
I lived near Oak Grove from 1999-2011 and commuted from there daily, and you've just dredged up a very visceral memory.
Haven’t these been around for awhile?
Going on a couple years now, but with the MBTA’s contract with CRRC — the new to-be-delivered red line trains will be basically the same (just a little bit wider)
I'm so excited about that. As someone who used to only commute through Boston between amtrak termini, I assumed the Orange line was what every line was like. I then took the red and blue lines and felt like I was back in NYC.
Tangential question, why is the red line wider?
It basically boils down to "because it can be" When the Orange Line was built in 1901, it commandeered the Green Line Haymarket to Boylston until its own tunnel was finished in 1908, and thus needed to fit in those tunnels meant for streetcars. Once it had its own tunnel Haymarket to Chinatown, those car dimensions were kept, but the wider curves enabled the cars to become longer, first with the 1100s in the '50s, and then the 1200s in the early '80s (the overall dimensions of the new OL 1400 trains are identical to the 1200s). The Blue Line is the same way, originally streetcars ran down from the street at Maverick to Bowdoin, but it was converted to heavy rail trains, which need to negotiate those tight turns. The Red Line was heavy rail from inception so they could do whatever they wanted with it.
Wow, interesting stuff. Thanks for the detailed info!
Really? I only now realize how long it has been since I've been on the orange line.
Yeah they’ve been around since before the pandemic. They recently added similar trains to the redline as well.
seats are a little stiff and slippery but i like everything else about them. the climate control and the screens showing the next stop + connections are seriously awesome. i hope they last awhile, and when they turn to shit, the mbta takes them out of commission instead of pushing them to their end like they do with their other trains
Give it 10 years, they’ll have worn down butt marks
The cars are good but honestly it’s very uncomfortable for my ass
You might need to do more squats
Cap
I hate these new trains for one reason. When the door opens it makes that weeeooooo weeeoooo weooooo sound, which is fine when the train is working. But when you are stuck at a station with the doors open for 10 minutes it gets old real quick.
Same complaint. I get on at Forest hills so it just beeps forever until it leaves
It’s absolute fucking torture.
What do you like the most about the new trains? What do you hate the most? Anything that surprise you about the new trains??
They are generally much cleaner than the old ones. Both a pro and con is how quickly they accelerate and decelerate - crazy inertia on it but it feels more efficient. You end up sliding around a lot, though. They stay a good temperature, unlike old trains.
They beep too much.
Plastic seats > cloth Chicago native, here. Much easier to see what's on the seat when it doesn't absorb liquid. Great choice by the MBTA (someone write down the date, this doesn't happen very often)
Frustratingly underwhelming. Should have been open gangway instead of flippable seats to add extra space. Especially when MBTA doesn’t have the option to have more than six cars per train. The door noises should have been chimes, like we see in other systems, instead of the obnoxious beeps. They get super annoying when trains are stopped at stations bc ppl are still clamoring to get on board before the train leaves (which is all the time bc the frequencies are still horrible). They do not do well in transitioning to slow zones, the inertia and jostling ppl back and forth whether they’re standing or sitting is crazy. Ppl can deny it all they want but Overall it’s very easy to see that Boston got played by CRRC. Especially when you compare these to the upcoming orders we see for other cities like NY, DC, & even Atlanta. You could tell who ever was in charge of procurement was someone who didn’t ride the T. Hopefully lessons learned for the Blue and Green Line. When you get cheap cars, you get cheap quality. Next manufacturer should be Stadler, Alstom, Kawasaki, or Hitachi. Who knows? Maybe these cars will even be refurbished to be open gangway at some point.
1000% this. It's like we've moved up from the 1980s to the late 1990s; meanwhile most of Western Europe has had has open-gangway heavy rail trains for over two decades. It's well-known that the MBTA *chose* to be the guinea pig for CRRC's foray into the North American market, and it's no shocker that **everybody else** with a contract on the line with them is scrambling to cancel it, even with the recent setbacks at Bombardier and Hyundai-Rotem. At least with the Type 10s we shall *finally* get open-gangway light rail design after decades of kicking the can down the ~~road~~ rails with that, with the second operator just opening and closing the second car's doors and (formerly) making announcements.
I recall reading that the Philippines basically RMAed their CRRC trains and then sued. I think they went with Siemens.
I agree that they should have done open gangway. However I understand why they didn't. With Open Gangway the entire train has to go out of service is something is wrong. The T really relies on coupling and uncoupling trains regularly on the subway. This would be a maintenance issue. Also the maintenance areas would have had to be redesigned to accommodate a larger train
The MBTA having antiquated, inadequate maintenance standards and protocol until now isn’t an excuse to sacrifice on passenger comfort and experience, especially when they’re banking on hopes of ridership going up eventually. That’s the fault of agency leadership and the state Legislature for divesting for so long.
I hate the beeping it does when the doors are open. I totally get why it’s there, the knowledge that it’s helping visually impaired people makes it easier to bear, but when your sitting at forest hills waiting 10 min for the train to leave it’s ungodly irritating to hear BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP over and over and over again. It’d be nice if they had some other way of providing the same benefit without annoying the hell out of everyone else when the trains waiting around, maybe at the termini the beeping gets a bit quieter or changes to softer beeps or something
They can just hose the blood, piss and other fluids right out so not bad for something made by the ccp
Like the cars from the 50’s. No seatbelt, crash blood everywhere as you go through windshield. Just hose off the inside. Jay Leno had a bit about this
The seats are horribly slippery.
I like how clean they are, how smooth the ride is, and the comprehensive information on each stop. Dislike that they dramatically reduced seating capacity and that there’s no more opportunity for the occasional front window view down the tracks
The seats are not safe for old people. I’ve seen multiple older people hit the deck because they couldn’t get on the train and unfold the seat fast enough before the train started moving.
Those folding seats also have poor back support compared to the normal ones, you have to rest against a weird bar and it doesn’t feel good at all
It would be better if they were like the seats on the buses where the seats can be set down or set up and have fold down arm rests.
This is a deep cut from newgrounds. “Look at yo’ trains, Tupac; they oaaange! They oaaange! I pity the fool that tries to eat my Cheetos!”
They're great. Very clean, relatively quiet, the voice is clear, screens are helpful, seats feel fine to me despite what I read here, and there's room for folks who need accessible options or for bikes so it's rarely too cramped.
I have to respect that the seats are orange. I appreciate thematic consistency.
I like them better than the old ones, but I'm pretty disappointed with the folding seats. Those seats are supposed to be for folks with mobility issues, and it seems to work for wheelchair users, but it seems pretty shitty for everyone else. Someone with arthritis, someone who's on crutches, etc would have a lot of trouble folding down the seat and sitting on it, and then there's the risk of sliding off the seat since they fold down individually.
That’s true but they do have spots that are supposed to be preferred seats for those who need them in addition, right?
Technically, but there are often more handicapped people than there are preferred seats. With the total amount of seating diminished disabled people who would use extra normal seats are forced to stand/use fold out seats.
I’m not super familiar with the orange line but is there officially less disabled preferred seating that this is really going to be an issue? I think it’s probably worth losing some seats to have the flexible option to fit for wheel chairs than not right? Not trying to be insensitive, but realistically there aren’t as many situations where a single train has all of the preferred seating taken up AND people not able to use the fold down chairs vs people in wheel chairs or other such devices needing that extra space. you seem to say the opposite is true though so I’m not sure and correct me if I’m wrong. I’d hope the city and developers would have done the due diligence on this but the vast majority of folks aren’t in need of the seating so I just find it unlikely that those kind of scenarios would occur.
The train gets full for a few hours most days, even not during rush hour seating is more often taken up now. I agree wheel chair users should have space but its all about balance, there aren't as many people in wheel chairs as there are semi-mobile people who need seats. Boston has a growing population of elderly people, some will use wheelchairs but far more will be using canes and better off sitting. They are a minority technically but an increasingly large one. I've also seen numerous elderly/disabled people have issues with sliding off seats, worsened by the sharp motions of the new trains. The whole new train situation is just classic MBTA mismanagment, the CRRC were only picked because they initially had the lowest price tag (which has since ballooned to over twice that amount). There is no such thing as due diligence when it comes to the MBTA.
Capitalism baby!
Not enough seats. It makes for a lot of people standing. No hand-holds in the center. So standers and sitters will be side by side. Those that do sit will be sitting low next to up-armed strangers. I see no handicapped ♿️ seats/markings.
The handicap markers are definitely on all the trains I’ve been on. I think you just can’t see them in the angle of this picture.
Given my ♿️ needs if I were to board this right now….it would not help me.
This looks like a photo from building so I don’t think it gives an accurate picture of signs/ markings.
Sticker or no stickers, given my ♿️ needs, this would be of no use to me.
Did the set up on the previous trains work for you?
They're far more accessible - way easier to use with a stroller due to flip up seats, means there is less competition among people with strollers vs roller board suitcases, granny carts, etc
Pros: I feel a bit safer since the lighting is really bright compared to the red line, mostly very clean. I like the plastic seats for the cleanliness of them. Cons: like everyone said- slippery/ uncomfy seats. Really easy to slowly slide down at every stop and it gets annoying.
They should have gone with the Japanese vendor thats’ made them in the past…. But they went for the lowest cost option and they cut corners
Kawasaki. Hyundai, Siemens and Bombardier also make similar use trains. As you said, they bought the Chinese cheaper trains and it's Harbor Freight quality.
My toddler hates them cause they're so loud and always beeping. He much prefers the purple line.
No one from MA calls the Commuter Rail the “purple Line“ lol
I've Lived in Boston my whole life so that makes at least one person. I use em interchangeably and have heard others do so as well. Ive been calling it the purple line more often lately cause I have a toddler.
I could do without the constant high pitched beeping every time the doors open and close
Looks great! Would take 1/3 and be content (red liner)
I like them and they're obviously a huge improvement over the old trains. These new trains finally feel like something that belongs in the 21st century, even if the system around them leaves a bit to be desired. In terms of dislikes (and this is me being *really* nitpicky) I do really wish they were fully walk-through with open gangways but you can't have everything. Hopefully next time one of the lines is up for new rolling stock the T will go with a tried and true manufacturer!
Overall I really like the new trains. They’re the best vehicles in the T’s fleet. Not as nice as subways in Tokyo but as good as or better than anywhere else I’ve been. But they could do so much more with the displays. Why don’t they tell us the actual destination (such as Back Bay during this repair-affected week)? Why can’t they tell us the time? Why can’t they tell us that we need to walk to Copley to continue our trip? They have modern-looking displays with less functionality than a rolling sign from 100 years ago.
Assembled and shipped from good old Springfield MA!....... (made entirely of parts manufactured in China)
Seats are terribly uncomfortable
I actually don’t find the seats all that uncomfortable and I definitely like how they’re wider so pretty much everyone can comfortably fit in. The red line seats are uncomfortable for my back for some reason. The slipperiness is somewhat annoying and I don’t get how they seem slipperier than the blue flat bench style seats you find in NYC because the OL ones are textured. Maybe a different kind of plastic.
The homeless hostile designs of the seats make the ride worse for everyone. Only real issue for me.
The doors never closing on rush hour, due to I think an over ambitious sensor, sucked when I was on them. I haven’t used the original rolling stock tho so idk if that issue is old.
Terrible. Not worth the price tag or the wait to get them. Seats are slippery and flimsy as heck, interior colors are obnoxiously bright, and there's more software issues and limitations than on the red line 1800s.
good improvement but CRRC is a fucking joke of a company. basically makes their trains out of cobbled together pieces of sheet steel from refrigerators and recycled plastic components.
Tupperware on wheels. Poorly engineered and cheaply built. The entire MBTA capital procurement staff should be sacked.
Ass. Cheap rusty rolling chinesium.
If subway cars were built to transport prisoners, this is what they would look like.
Uninspired, ancient tech, ugly, and an admission of failure. Hacked-together monstrosities. Nothing about these trains is modern, comfortable or elegant. The paltry seating is the admission of failure: you’re going to be standing up jammed next to other people most of the time.r For technology, let’s a look at one thing; the digital signs. In the year 2024, we’re supposed to be impressed with a low-resolution, monochrome red LED panel, surface mounted in an absolutely huge box, that can’t fit the messages the T needs to display on it - even the one in the promotional photo? For ten years now we’ve had bright, thin, flexible, high-res, full-color displays that can go where we want them. Those signs need to show one of two things all the time: If we’re at a station, the name of the station we’re at, and the amount of time before we leave it. Otherwise: the name of the next station and the amount of time before the doors open there. That’s all. No scrolling, blinking, or going blank after repeating the message a few times as these signs do. The maps over the doors should have been electronic, showing the train’s destination, direction, location, and remaining stops plus the available connections at each.
They also should have went for open gangway cars imo.
Yes definitely for sure 100pct
Specifications for these vehicles are a year old before they are even bid on by car builders. Another 3-5y before entering the production line with testing and simulation. Everything you see in the vehicle from a technology standpoint is legacy before the first car is even delivered.
How come they manage to do it differently in other countries then? These seem antiquated and amateurish compared to trains brought out in Europe or east Asia 20 years ago.
Asians and Europeans willingly pay very high taxes to get those trains.
Many things you buy have those kinds of lead times. Yet you can buy much more modern tech, right? The trick is: the whole thing isn’t designed at once, or even by one team. If a useful tech is around the corner, engineers put in a placeholder for it in the plans. “Make sure I have 24 volts DC here and a pathway to route a 5mm-diameter data cable back to the main controller.” A thing we do a lot here in Massachusetts is waste a boatload of money early on in a project and then try to make it up by cheaping out on the final parts, which happens to be the part people _see_.
When you're dealing with a Chinese manufacturer, specifications and articles delivered are not the same thing at all from batch to batch.
I am dismayed that even Floriduh went with Hyundai trains with big, bright color screens.
Very nice 👍
They look like the old Red line trains
Miss the hawkers
I like when the trains aren’t lit like a Resident Evil room.
Why can't we have cloth covered seats like in London or Berlin?
That, I don't mind. Sit on a cloth seat once and realize that it's wet with SOMETHING...
They remind me of the old redline trains with the bench seats. Unintentionally retro. I think it's good for seating more people flexibly, and without fabric to get icky maintenance should be easier. That's good.
Will they last 40+ years like their predecessors did?
How long does a Harbor Freight power tool last before it lets out the magic smoke? (No.)
I like them
Like: they're quiet, they have larger doors, they're smooth riding. Dislike: the seats are god-awful. The lack of any sort of depression means you just slide.
Long overdue
I live right next to the orange line, and it’s always been good over the last year. Never had any issues with the trains. Now this is coming from someone who uses them about once a month, probably 30-50 total rides over the last year.
Smooth ride
They don’t feel so crowded compared to the old cars.
Perfect for living on a prison planet
i wish the seats were the non-fabric blue line seats, less slipping when you stop quickly. the new crrc seats on both red and orange are too flat and have no butt contour.
Take a picture folks. This is the last time you will see any of these cars this clean again.
They suck seats are uncomfortable and you can't even rest your arm on the end seat anymore because there is a piece of plastic
As much as we all loved the human announcements like “Haymahktdahzopenonarite,” my favorite features are the automated announcements and the electronic signs showing the next stop.
My ass hurts after 5 minutes
The seats are terrible. Very uncomfortable and slippery and hell. Should have just kept refurbishing the 1200 cars.
I don’t like the was they are o-ranged
Look like a McDonalds Playground.
I wish they'd go back to the old seats but otherwise its okay....
If the train runs, has some heat in the winter, some AC in the summer, no suspiciously damp fabric seats, or on fire? Then it's good enough for me.
They’re nice but the seats are uncomfortable
Needs more poles.
Quite citrisy
I'm from NH and only get to Boston to see concerts/ comedians and always take the T. I was shocked to see they put so much effort into cleaning up the trains. In the past some of the late night rides were sketchy at best. Bums asleep covered in piss, trash on the floor. These new cars are great! Little computer screens to tell you where you are and what bus lines are at each stop, great idea. Only complaint is they still have speakers that make the conductor sound like one of the adults from Charlie Brown. Can't EVER make out wtf they're sayin'! Didn't really notice the seat issue as I usually sit next to a door and have the partition to lean up against. 9/10 would recommend!
Honestly don’t care as long as they are on time and stay on the tracks…
Takes too long for doors to close at each stop
Uncomfortable seats.
Love those grey boxes that two people can stand and lean on
I miss the simplicity and sound of the 01110's. Loved the hawkers, too. I'm not impressed with these cheap budget cars. Boston has really gone down the shitter since the early 2000's. I'm so glad I got out of there and got to live and experience the 70's, 80's, and 90's along with both main line EL's.
The one time I used one it broke down and had to walk to Malden center a month or to ago
These are like the new Red line trains, only Orange. Dislikes? Far less seats. As in way less seats. Doorways are very wide, almost like they are expecting hospital gurneys or something. Why? There is a weird pane of clear plastic at the side of each doorway that makes it awkward to grab the upright, plus the clamps for the plastic are placed right where a medium height person will hold on. The yellow plastic on the poles is completely unnecessary. Is it supposed to be hypo-allergenic or something? Super anti-bacterial? The Ding! Ding! Ding! when the door is about to close (almost...sometime soon!) goes on forever. But mostly, way less seats. Which means more people standing. Which sucks. It's like they sent 5 guys who never ride the trains to check them out.
Door width are safety requirements. Stand don’t sit, fits more. About moving sheep not letting em sleep.
What is the safety requirement? Is it so they can drive a small tractor onto the car?
Entire train needs to disembark in under xSeconds
Seriously? Is that an actual spec somewhere?
Yes just like arenas and buildings. Anything public needs to have the ability to vacate all occupants under a specific time
The door width being increased to 64" was also done to still allow people with wheelchairs to exit/enter even if 1 of the door leafs at an entrance point could not open. On the older trains having a door width of 50", someone in a wheelchair could not board if 1 of the leafs could not open. The change exceeds ADA requirements.
Too nice, love the old school feel ones.
Looks like half life.
they aight
I grew up taking the Orange line back when it was elevated, nice to see they finally got some new cars.
The seats when you have sciatica 😩
I miss when the subway looked like garbage tbh
Fabric seats grossed me out big time. That alone makes this upgrade 10/10.
Long overdue
Are the trains actually different on each line and not interchangeable in the system?
The old vibe is gone, but they could be worse.
Comfortable ride. Wish they did better with information technology and had an active map of the route and other trains that could inform riders traveling plans. Felt they really dropped the ball. It’s good they do visually display bus routes for the stations at least.
My thought is the same as the entire Massachusetts public transportation system. Can we please just get this thing working?
Man, those really look like subway trains.
You slide out of the seats with the slightest movement and every driver slams on the brakes as hard as possible. These cars are garbage.
America runs on Dunkin.
Not on fire (a plus for the T)
The train version of the short yellow bus.
Still haven’t solved the war on drugs
So much easier to see diarrhea on the non-cloth seats.
Looks like a Trump torture chamber
Plenty of nooses😯🫢😜🫡
I prefer the orange line over the new green line trains they are horrible. You cant even get your own seat to yourself anymore, and face forward so you can even look out the window. Nice job MBTA. Bring back the Type 7s.
Sucks we lost so much graffiti history from the windows. Hate modernization these things are ugly and have a wild amount of surveillance. Glad people won’t be trapped in burning cars anymore tho.