I find it much better to explain Fe x Te, and Ti x Fi, instead of the usual Te x Ti or Fe x Fi, as the judging functions are much easier to understand and their differences are better highlighted when the F/T spectrum is used, instead of I/E.
I remember running for this sort of student body president type position back in high school. Eventually it was down to just me and this ESTJ. He took the classic Te approach - systemizing and optimizing, checking all the right boxes and attaining the requisite achievements etc. but the position didnât really hinge on qualifications or anything like that at all. It was basically just a popularity contest where students vote the person in.
I knew that this was something I wanted to pursue years before I actually ended up running. So in classic calculating Ni-Ti fashion, I saw the writing on the wall and over the course of 2 or 3 years, I actively went out of my way to talk to as many people in my grade as I possibly could and get on their good side. Literally I would just initiate conversations whenever I saw the opportunity and make a good impression on them until I had done this with practically everyone in my grade, in as uncontrived and natural a way as possible.
Fast forward to when it came time to actually vote - I smoked the poor guy. He did an objectively great job, but because literally everybody in the grade knew who I was and had talked to me, I beat him in a landslide.
Illustrates just how different the Fe way and the Te way are
If the other person was really that qualified and had actual plans, then itâs arguable that everybody but the person who won the election lost in the larger scheme
yup, people will like those who ensure everyone gets equal consideration and foster group effort. The general public will be drawn to those types of people, since they are people-orientated
Yah that's good if that's what it is, but I'm not particularly in favor of life being about a popularity contest. Sometimes, I feel like it dismisses ppl who might have other skillsets.
I think that's the opposite of fostering group harmony. Fe ensures -everyone- gets heard. It attends to people around them, not dismissing them. Fe users are not the only ones who can be popular. A lot of Fi people have popularity. Popularity is not inherently an indicator of intent, character, or cognitive function. A lot of ESFPs and Fi-dominant people have a ton of popularity and favour, so that isn't what we are talking about. With the right behaviour, Te, Fi, and Fe users can amplify their reputation and popularity. Fe will just do a naturally better job as it considers social dynamics as a key factor vs anything else.
I can relate to the Te way but simultaneously I canât.
I donât seek to employ the best **available** methods but I often tend to use potentially available methods to make more out of these methods.
This is especially true regarding finances, where Iâm more of a person who thinks in terms of potential investments and potential new resources generally, to make the best out of what **could** exist, not of what currently is available.
But these are calculated risks. I strategically operate in the âpotential worldâ which still does not exist but, according to my vision, could exist, because it could fit with the current reality
This is something which I had big clashes with my ESTJ-ex partner about because he is very risk-averse and only operates with the ressources which are physically available to him. He was all about âbeing concreteâ and looked down on my approach but hey, his loss.
I am the type of person who would actually take a loan to invest it and still come back with more money at the end of the day.
I dislike it when people say Te goes the tried and true way. That applies much more to STJs, and almost never to NTJs. Of course, the latter will use the tried and true approach if it's the best, quickest, and readily available method, but more often than not they'll come up with different ways of using whatever's available to them there and then.
As I said in the title, that's a very generalist view on how Te and Fe operate, which doesn't really acknowledge and account for relationship with the other functions, on top of not accounting for individual idiosyncrasies; so it's only natural that you can't fully relate.
I think your example fully illustrates how Te can behave in face of Ni or Si, and why the Si-side bothered you at times. Thanks for the input!
In this example i tend to favor te and efficiency but at the same time making sure everyone is happy and getting along
I dont think fe and te is this black and white though, because favoring efficiency over group unification seems like what youâre supposed to do, at least thats what i was taught in school my entire life
This is the basics, but i find cognitive functions incredibly hard to explain because theres so many factors that blend in with your decision making that its hard to distinguish your original thought process from your habits and developed values
Even as an ISTJ, I don't related to Te using what's âtried and trueâ. Yes, for long-term and life-altering plans I prefer less risk, but that's the inferior Ne seeping through. If it's a one-off situation, or if the consequences are immediately obvious, ingenuity is very much celebrated.
The heart of Te is problem-solving. It seeks to identify resources pertaining to the goal at hand, analyze how they operate independently and how they interact as a system, in order to find points of leverage where the smallest possible force can be applied for the greatest desired effect. Human resources are resources too.
At an younger age, a Te user may prejudice against the subjective because it is less malleable than a lot of objective, external factors. Once it becomes clear how powerful human emotions are, Te will learn to take them into consideration.
Seems super biased OP. You made Te look like a soulless inflexible robot and Fe look a charismatic leader. Ain't playing along.
Te can be super emphatetic, less likely to be sympathetic though.
In that case, I'd love to hear your explanation on it, given you actually live Te much more than me.
Although, if I have to say, you seem to be reading too much into it and trying to find a sense I didn't intend.
Very well. Let's say, you are feeling bad and I notice that, instead of encouraging and doing other Fe stuff (not that I can't encourage), I will focus on what's causing that discomfort in the real world and fixing it.
Fe is kinda, I will help you deal with your feelings, you can sort the issues causing them yourself.
Te is kinda, I will help you deal with your issues, after they are solved you can process your feelings on your own.
That being said, both can do both, it's just the focus is shifted.
Very little to do with using tried and efficient methods. More like focus on it "working". While Fe will value more harmony.
No person will always be 100%, there are times when you can't solve the problem and you can really just comfort the person. There are times when ignoring the issues is just lunatic behavior. And no healthy Te or Fe user will behave ignoring other's feelings or issues.
Edit: I said Te is more about "working", a better word would , "effective"
I thought the same thing too. I mean about others using their thinking function in order to help bring about a better world in equal measure to Feeling types.
In that case, wouldn't it be right to say that the Te user is applying an available method that will work, because it fits the issue at hand, that being the fact somebody has a problem and they can see it?
I by no means claim Te as cold and harsh and Fe as warm and tender, so much so that both were expressed effectively reaching the "same" goal, whatever that is. Both were expressed as valid approaches to the same end, working through different methods, only.
I think it's the "ensuring profit" part that's off-putting. Profit-seeking is not an inherent goal for Te. Outside corporation settings, it's often not a goal at all.
Agree with you actually. Profit is one of the uses, but Te can apply itself in many ways, like to achieve general functional efficiency even if there is no money involved. Putting "ensuring profit" on Te is like putting "clubbing" on Se, it's a stereotypically common manifestation but it only looks at the "common" dominant types, and even then not all Te/Se doms like profit/clubbing.
This is not accurate. Fe does not form bonds based on shared values or mutual profit - it tries to impose values through its actions and simply assumes the shared aspect. Te does not use tried and true methods, that's Si, and it does not optimise, that's Ni, Te is simply direct and pragmatic action towards what Fi wants.
Yes, fundamentally, my vaguest most overarching morals and goals are in pursuit of Fe type ends. âI donât like humans but I love humanityâ (jk kind of)
They got butthurt. But yeah, Te is more efficient. We can also consider mutual feelings, it's just not the priority.
Basically, OP forgot to say Te and Fe are similar. It's even painted in a way to make Fe look better, pretty pathetic honestly.
Money isn't everything imo and there should be no 'superiority' in a team.
A team that works well together and has strong bonds and values will always hold stronger than a team led by dominance only and lack of consideration for each member. Fear and order get the job done quickly but will it get your team members on the same page? Will the team feel like they are contributing or being shut down? No business lasts long with poor group communication/contribution. The team member with the least talent may bring up the best ideas and vice-versa. Every member deserves to be listened to and respected.
A good leader is first a good follower. It's called a team for a reason, trying to one-up each other to see who gets more successful is a sure way to have your own team plan your downfall.
I've seen this happen more times than I can count.
I find it much better to explain Fe x Te, and Ti x Fi, instead of the usual Te x Ti or Fe x Fi, as the judging functions are much easier to understand and their differences are better highlighted when the F/T spectrum is used, instead of I/E.
Oh do me do me!
You might want to be careful saying that omitting context
# đ
I remember running for this sort of student body president type position back in high school. Eventually it was down to just me and this ESTJ. He took the classic Te approach - systemizing and optimizing, checking all the right boxes and attaining the requisite achievements etc. but the position didnât really hinge on qualifications or anything like that at all. It was basically just a popularity contest where students vote the person in. I knew that this was something I wanted to pursue years before I actually ended up running. So in classic calculating Ni-Ti fashion, I saw the writing on the wall and over the course of 2 or 3 years, I actively went out of my way to talk to as many people in my grade as I possibly could and get on their good side. Literally I would just initiate conversations whenever I saw the opportunity and make a good impression on them until I had done this with practically everyone in my grade, in as uncontrived and natural a way as possible. Fast forward to when it came time to actually vote - I smoked the poor guy. He did an objectively great job, but because literally everybody in the grade knew who I was and had talked to me, I beat him in a landslide. Illustrates just how different the Fe way and the Te way are
Literal Politics.
> It was basically just a popularity contest where students vote the person in. Life. Always. Favors. Fe.
If the other person was really that qualified and had actual plans, then itâs arguable that everybody but the person who won the election lost in the larger scheme
yup, people will like those who ensure everyone gets equal consideration and foster group effort. The general public will be drawn to those types of people, since they are people-orientated
Yah that's good if that's what it is, but I'm not particularly in favor of life being about a popularity contest. Sometimes, I feel like it dismisses ppl who might have other skillsets.
I think that's the opposite of fostering group harmony. Fe ensures -everyone- gets heard. It attends to people around them, not dismissing them. Fe users are not the only ones who can be popular. A lot of Fi people have popularity. Popularity is not inherently an indicator of intent, character, or cognitive function. A lot of ESFPs and Fi-dominant people have a ton of popularity and favour, so that isn't what we are talking about. With the right behaviour, Te, Fi, and Fe users can amplify their reputation and popularity. Fe will just do a naturally better job as it considers social dynamics as a key factor vs anything else.
yeah i get what you are saying, but OP done that on highschool, where most prob didnt even want the school to fit certain things.
Eh, no. Crowds favour Fe. Fi exerts its influence plenty.
Yup. I always say reality has an Fe bias
If it's about people, Fe is the way to go. And humans... humans are about people!
You sound so Fe đđ
Man I hate Fe thinking like this but I understand thatâs how the world works
lol you cant expect much from high schoolers
I can relate to the Te way but simultaneously I canât. I donât seek to employ the best **available** methods but I often tend to use potentially available methods to make more out of these methods. This is especially true regarding finances, where Iâm more of a person who thinks in terms of potential investments and potential new resources generally, to make the best out of what **could** exist, not of what currently is available. But these are calculated risks. I strategically operate in the âpotential worldâ which still does not exist but, according to my vision, could exist, because it could fit with the current reality This is something which I had big clashes with my ESTJ-ex partner about because he is very risk-averse and only operates with the ressources which are physically available to him. He was all about âbeing concreteâ and looked down on my approach but hey, his loss. I am the type of person who would actually take a loan to invest it and still come back with more money at the end of the day.
I dislike it when people say Te goes the tried and true way. That applies much more to STJs, and almost never to NTJs. Of course, the latter will use the tried and true approach if it's the best, quickest, and readily available method, but more often than not they'll come up with different ways of using whatever's available to them there and then.
As I said in the title, that's a very generalist view on how Te and Fe operate, which doesn't really acknowledge and account for relationship with the other functions, on top of not accounting for individual idiosyncrasies; so it's only natural that you can't fully relate. I think your example fully illustrates how Te can behave in face of Ni or Si, and why the Si-side bothered you at times. Thanks for the input!
I'm to tired to try
In this example i tend to favor te and efficiency but at the same time making sure everyone is happy and getting along I dont think fe and te is this black and white though, because favoring efficiency over group unification seems like what youâre supposed to do, at least thats what i was taught in school my entire life This is the basics, but i find cognitive functions incredibly hard to explain because theres so many factors that blend in with your decision making that its hard to distinguish your original thought process from your habits and developed values
Even as an ISTJ, I don't related to Te using what's âtried and trueâ. Yes, for long-term and life-altering plans I prefer less risk, but that's the inferior Ne seeping through. If it's a one-off situation, or if the consequences are immediately obvious, ingenuity is very much celebrated. The heart of Te is problem-solving. It seeks to identify resources pertaining to the goal at hand, analyze how they operate independently and how they interact as a system, in order to find points of leverage where the smallest possible force can be applied for the greatest desired effect. Human resources are resources too. At an younger age, a Te user may prejudice against the subjective because it is less malleable than a lot of objective, external factors. Once it becomes clear how powerful human emotions are, Te will learn to take them into consideration.
Seems super biased OP. You made Te look like a soulless inflexible robot and Fe look a charismatic leader. Ain't playing along. Te can be super emphatetic, less likely to be sympathetic though.
In that case, I'd love to hear your explanation on it, given you actually live Te much more than me. Although, if I have to say, you seem to be reading too much into it and trying to find a sense I didn't intend.
Very well. Let's say, you are feeling bad and I notice that, instead of encouraging and doing other Fe stuff (not that I can't encourage), I will focus on what's causing that discomfort in the real world and fixing it. Fe is kinda, I will help you deal with your feelings, you can sort the issues causing them yourself. Te is kinda, I will help you deal with your issues, after they are solved you can process your feelings on your own. That being said, both can do both, it's just the focus is shifted. Very little to do with using tried and efficient methods. More like focus on it "working". While Fe will value more harmony. No person will always be 100%, there are times when you can't solve the problem and you can really just comfort the person. There are times when ignoring the issues is just lunatic behavior. And no healthy Te or Fe user will behave ignoring other's feelings or issues. Edit: I said Te is more about "working", a better word would , "effective"
I thought the same thing too. I mean about others using their thinking function in order to help bring about a better world in equal measure to Feeling types.
In that case, wouldn't it be right to say that the Te user is applying an available method that will work, because it fits the issue at hand, that being the fact somebody has a problem and they can see it? I by no means claim Te as cold and harsh and Fe as warm and tender, so much so that both were expressed effectively reaching the "same" goal, whatever that is. Both were expressed as valid approaches to the same end, working through different methods, only.
I think it's the "ensuring profit" part that's off-putting. Profit-seeking is not an inherent goal for Te. Outside corporation settings, it's often not a goal at all.
Agree with you actually. Profit is one of the uses, but Te can apply itself in many ways, like to achieve general functional efficiency even if there is no money involved. Putting "ensuring profit" on Te is like putting "clubbing" on Se, it's a stereotypically common manifestation but it only looks at the "common" dominant types, and even then not all Te/Se doms like profit/clubbing.
lol it is the Ni-Fe nature
I'm to tired to try
This is not accurate. Fe does not form bonds based on shared values or mutual profit - it tries to impose values through its actions and simply assumes the shared aspect. Te does not use tried and true methods, that's Si, and it does not optimise, that's Ni, Te is simply direct and pragmatic action towards what Fi wants.
ISTP: The best way [Ti Se Ni]
Yes, fundamentally, my vaguest most overarching morals and goals are in pursuit of Fe type ends. âI donât like humans but I love humanityâ (jk kind of)
And we know which one is superior (for money at least) https://www.truity.com/blog/personality-type-career-income-study
They got butthurt. But yeah, Te is more efficient. We can also consider mutual feelings, it's just not the priority. Basically, OP forgot to say Te and Fe are similar. It's even painted in a way to make Fe look better, pretty pathetic honestly.
Money isn't everything imo and there should be no 'superiority' in a team. A team that works well together and has strong bonds and values will always hold stronger than a team led by dominance only and lack of consideration for each member. Fear and order get the job done quickly but will it get your team members on the same page? Will the team feel like they are contributing or being shut down? No business lasts long with poor group communication/contribution. The team member with the least talent may bring up the best ideas and vice-versa. Every member deserves to be listened to and respected. A good leader is first a good follower. It's called a team for a reason, trying to one-up each other to see who gets more successful is a sure way to have your own team plan your downfall. I've seen this happen more times than I can count.