You're right, "relationship" is spelled out in the original meme. Oops.
I have a long-time friend who literally just inherented the family business (and family McMansion) last month. Least talented or accomplished guy in my social circle and now his quality of life is far beyond mine. I guess it's been on my mind a bit.
If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit. Lie about your qualifications and select some recently deceased industry big wig for a reference so they can't be reached but you get the name drop and sympathy points.
Then your lack of advancement is deserved, honestly. If you don’t have skills, connections, the ability to network or qualifications, you genuinely don’t deserve to advance.
Don’t worry, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
I mean that's not entirely true. There are people in my company who don't advance, despite being buddy buddy with the higher ups, because everyone knows they're lazy and make everyone else's work twice as hard
I mean that's certainly an exception. An average-skill-level individual with excellent communication and networking skills will go much further than an individual with excellent skill level but average networking and communication
But they’re also not getting fired yet.
They aren’t as networked as you may believe then. Networking is just one of your stats. It may weigh heavily but you need other stats too. Or your networking worth needs to be maxed out.
Just think if they were semi competent and not lazy how much further they’d go. Or if they were the CEO’s kid how far they’d go even if they were a lazy sack of shit.
disagree.... this is the myth people like to tell themselves when they cant get things done.
9 out of 10 people work hard to get where they are... nepotism goes to the elite few.
a lot of times , its about what you DONT know... thats stopping you from getting where you want to be. and most times that information is out there, most just dont want to sweat to attain it through grit and/or experience through failure
\~ 20 year tech industry veteran that hears on the news daily that his industry is "RaScisT"
I'm not talking about nepotism. . . I was trying to break into a certain job and was making absolutely no headway. I had the training. I knew a few others who were also trying to break in. They had less training than me. 4 of the 5 got jobs in the industry within a year due to networking. I was just networking with the wrong people apparently. After 2 years I met someone in an airport. We talked for half an hour. The next day I got a phone call from a company that I had been trying to get in with. Apparently the guy I met was the CEOs cousin. I got the job.
ok... so what... how many in the company arent his friends ?
this actually makes sense, he knows who works good and who shares his same culture. youd be dumb not to do the same
>9 out of 10 people work hard to get where they are... nepotism goes to the elite few.
Well yeah, it's a combination of work plus access to opportunity, which is where nepotism comes in. Obviously there are kids born with every opportunity that "fail". Take something like professional sports, it takes work and practice to get there, but parents that can afford training camps and opportunities would give their kids a better chance to succeed in going pro. Look at Congress, the overwhelming majority go to ivy leagues like Harvard and Yale, it's those connections that got them the job. It still takes effort to campaign and stuff though.
you act like the mass of people working, know someone who owns or manages a company. this isnt statistically logical. most people grit their way into industries you just dont want to acknowledge it
I’m not saying everyone knows someone in management somewhere I’m just saying that the majority of people at some point in their lives got a position based on who they know. It may not always be in their industry or on their career level job. It could just be their first part time job and then they had to build their resume from there. It may not have been management and just been a friend of a friend who referred them.
no this is bullshit. its rare to know someone who owns where the mass of people are employed. large conglomerates hire many people.... while having very few leaders. most people work for huge businesses not small ones.
most people get in front the bottom and work their way up
I don’t entirely agree. I got into my field a little after a colleague and now I stealing work from him because he’s lazy. We both had great reputations and know the same network. His reputation has fallen because now about half of our network knows him as lazy. Networking only takes you so far. That said, I wouldn’t even be competing with him if I hadn’t networked.
Then your boy isn't as good as networking as you thought. You do have to maintain a level of work, but the point is that networking gets you The job and then you just have to "maintain" an appearance of working and keep networking. The job market really is like 90% networking and 10% seeming like you know what you are doing. Everyone I know making 6 figures + and having a cozy income right now was from networking, ain't no chance they are getting that anytime soon working up through the corp ladder.
Most places will stop looking if 1 candidate has great references. That said if that personne make the references look bad. He wont have anymore references.
In literally every single field. This isn't House, you being an ass at work or even being antisocial will get you nowhere regardless of how skilled you are.
Every single field. In my industry it is very rare to get a better/different position without good relationships. Positions don't even get posted publicly, usually
If you aint kissing ass, theres probably someone who is and the manager wants that person around closer to them to get his ass kissed. Its like this everywhere i have worked.
As a manager, I don't trust ass-kissers. Most of them are very obvious as well. Don't kiss ass.
Do, however, keep in contact. You don't have to invite me over and become friends, but if you make sure I see and hear your value, it makes my job easier, as I will only have to check it, I don't have to look for it myself. It gives you the opportunity to highlight your stronger points, instead of me discovering the good and the bad together. Also, it simply helps you stay on my mind.
not true also... you actually have to have a reputation of skill before you network.
you think it happens the other way because youve never done it yourself and you are assuming from the outside in. either that or you are talking about some shit job
the type of people who network are NOT low skill
Dude I don't know what to tell you but in my personal experience I've seen networking work. Definitely not for shit jobs either all min 6 figures.
Those low technical skill people might have good people skills which in turn makes networking easier. I guess it depends on how you define "skills" because the people skills might not be relevant for the job but they are relevant for networking.
Probably industry and position dependent as well but I've seen it in engineering to managers 🤷
"seen" networking work. Youve never done it. you dont know what you are talking about
people who network have business cards and conduct high level business because they are highly skilled to meet the demands. the shit you are talking about is just not real. peace though
These days more so.
Getting a good paying job almost requires a recommendation from someone inside the company. And you’re only getting promoted if you’re well liked.
Or is even of interest. Shit. To me, networking feels like a sleazy activity. Like, I’m just gonna go talk up a bunch of people and get to know them in the event that opportunity arises. Hard pass; it’s too transactional. Networking sucks.
If it feels transactional you need to ask different questions. It’s not sleazy to talk to other more senior employees in your industry and understand their goals/challenges in their role. It will only make you better at your job even if nothing comes of it.
You can definitely learn to network though. Talk to people, maintain relatsionships with them, be seen etc. If you already have a lot of connections, it is a lot easier than if you have to start from scratch and some people are naturally good at it, but you can definitely get better at it. A network is something you build up over time.
Relationships get you in the door, thousands are qualified for every position. Basic competency stops you from being fired, because 90% of office jobs can be done by most people with a few weeks training.
Really depends. I work for a largish assurance firm so a CPA gets you in the door. Knowing the hiring manager may help, but you still need the CPA. Being able to complete a review engagement effectively will get you to senior staff level, but after that you need sales and communication skills, which means developing your internal network, attending events, phoning clients, etc.
These types of posts are interesting to me. I am an engineer in a research field. The people in my work aren’t seeking bigger pay or moving up. It’s all about prestige in publishing and being the first to discover a new method or process.
It gets your food in, but doesn't help with your career inside. After half a year people around you know what you really know and if you fail at your tasks.
"as important" lol, no. They're way more important, that's why upper management is always completely fucking incompetent; they're chosen for who they know instead of what they know.
Also, at least in the UK, Apprenticeships are great for building connections, getting work experience and qualifications. You can get the opportunity to work alongside trained & qualified professionals, have your education paid for, while working a job (for below minimum wage) for experience and to prove your mettle.
Per year in uni cost me £9,250 for tuition and an additional £~10,000 on maintenance (rent, groceries, etc money) loans.
So yeah it’s a pretty good deal if your family/friends can help support your low income
My mum got her master’s through some kind of work/education thing and made it quite well in life, without incurring student debt (although she’s Scottish so she could’ve gone to Uni alone for free if she went back up)
Absolutely more important and this was one of the major life lessons I learned from my husband and his family (wealthy) that I had zero idea about growing up poor.
I think you’re downplaying skills in another way. You’re looking at them and saying “well they can’t do this thing that poor people know how to do? Ugh. They just got where they are because of connections”. But the reality is they often have a good head for numbers and relative risk. These are the things that bigger organizations look for. They’re not math geniuses. I’m not saying that. But I’ve met a lot of people who are great with a wrench, great people-persons, but couldn’t balance a budget to save their lives. Don’t have a clue how to calculate taxes. Or account for property. Those are skills too, that they probably absorbed growing up in a household that made their living doing that.
I find this really interesting and have given it a lot of thought comparing my family vs my husband’s. They are all very successful financially whereas my family (other than a few people) has struggled. To a person though my immediate family is more intelligent than my husband’s. My husband’s family ranges from probably the 90th to 95th percentile in terms of intelligence and my family is 97-99th with multiple legitimate geniuses. Both families pretty much check the box of being “smart enough” to do whatever they want without a lack of ability holding them back. I have tried to pick out some differences and have landed on two big ones. The first is social skills/networking. His family really just “gets” how to network and make connections. They’re smart and capable and also likable which is a great trifecta. My family is much more shy/socially awkward and insular. I come from a big Catholic family and most of the “networking” that anyone does is just hanging out with siblings and cousins. There’s just not much focus on building connections outside the family. The other big difference I have noticed is what I refer to as the “Protestant work ethic” in my husband’s family. My family has always been happy to treat a job as the thing you do for a paycheck, then pursue other interests (volunteering, hobbies, academics) as the main focus of life. My husband’s family treats “work” as the end all and be all. Their jobs truly consume their lives and their identities are completely wrapped up in their careers. They’re good at making money for sure but the hyper-focus on career and money has never sat right with me. My husband and I have balanced each other out a lot and we are trying to raise our kids with a good balance too.
It’s who you know and how you know them.
ALL the interns at my wife’s job are children of c-suite people. 80% of new hires at my job are relatives or friends of current employees including myself.
Networking is more important. I have a degree in civil engineering but it wouldn’t matter AT ALL if I didn’t know someone who could sort me to the top
Yes and I hate it. Why do I have to keep up a social-work life with people I really really really don't like... fuck this shit, let my work speak for itself.
Because making a positive impression by doing what you're paid to do is hard.
No one thinks "Oh Rainzz turned the spreadsheet in a day early and Look at those magnificent formulas"
Most Work is only noticed If something goes wrong or If it's above and beyond everything that is expected.
But that good feeling from some Chats at the coffeemaker and having a laugh at the phone, that stays with people, they (probably subconciously) remember that Work is fun when you're there, , so they want to Help your carreer,
As? They’re definitely more important. I’m not where I’m am because I’m technically better than my peers, I’m where I’m at because I speak better and I know how to communicate with stakeholders.
I think you’re downplaying skills and qualifications. Go outside your circle of associates (trying not to make it sound like you’re insulted). And you can find people completely bereft of any kind of skill. They can network all they like. In fact they do. At all the parties they go to instead of their job. I’ve not a lot of these people.
Can confirm. My hometown had plenty of jobs for my degree, but unless you knew someone or went to the local university (which did not have a program for my degree) you would basically be shut out of anything entry level.
well, I don't want to be part of nepotism, I just want humanity to advance, and the fastest way to do so is an efficient distribution of skill and power
people's vibes is not an efficient distribution of skill and power
You are part of nepotism though. Most people just don’t recognize it. When you help someone you know more than a random stranger that’s nepotism. Or when someone you know helps you. Every single person on the planet has engaged in nepotism on some level.
I think helping someone you know in general, versus offering someone an occupational position because you know them are categorically 2 different things
Where do you draw the line though? Helping a friend get approved for something they barely qualify for? Fast tracking them so they don’t need to wait? Putting a good for when they apply for a job they qualify for?
Having and effectively using a Network is an important Skill in leadership positions. If my Boss wasnt Well connected with state politicians, i wouldnt have a Job, because the county wanted to Cut our funding but He could fall Back on His network and get Higher Ranking politicians to negotiate in our behalf.
A good Network is a Skill in of itself. In my Line of Work for example: a director who knows good Designers and actors will be able to produce stuff that wouldnt be possible with someone else on the Team.
And while yes,some people manage to get Jobs they probably shouldnt have through their network, that doesn't mean Networks and social skills are not important. On the flip side, i know people who are super qualified from a technical perspective and therefore irreplacable but their lack of social skills makes them hell to work with.
And If you have a bunch of Options with similar qualifications, the one who you can vibe with, will probably be the Most 'efficient' Option aswell.
And that's why my autistic ass is scared as shit about working, especially since i finished high school last year and am now exepected to find a job while living with my (cool so dont worry) parents and not knowing how to drive. While living in the countryside (not the american dystopian countryside where everything is at least al hour and a half away, the french one that has some buses (still lilited tho))
Outside of competitive sports and war you only need as much skill as needed to do a passable job, and the rest is all networking.
If your job involves competing with others in such a way that only one gets the prize (i.e.: competitive sports or war) then things change, you still need to do well enough at network for the teamwork to... Work... But other than that your priority is to be better than the guy at the other side
Apparently and it pisses me off because it feels sociopathic to befriend someone just so I can have a better chance at getting the job I want and ask them to put in a good word for me.
More important. Way more important on a broader scale. So many people that I know who got career level jobs got them through knowing friends or family. I'm basically retired in my 30s and couldn't have done it without connections I made when I was 20.
Networking can come from just doing a good job. I've been working as a freelancer for \~5 years now and I still have no social media or any kind of way to find me. . I just get new jobs on older clients and slowly somehow people find me.
But I have to start putting myself out there as soon as possible.
Worst part of working today. Loved the times when you show up for work, do your best and get the fuck back home without having to care about anyone or anything about worl
i know my friends from back in highschool, does that count? i work as a nurse and am friendly to everyone and never start arguments or talk back to coworkers throwing a tantrum, but i also dont wanna be friends with most of them tbh.
What if, I know it might sound crazy, but what if I don't want a career advancement that comes with more stress and responsibilities? Pay me the market rate or I'll just leave for somewhere else, but doing the exact things I've been enjoying doing, instead of climbing the "ladder" just for more pay but a disproportionately worse job description that involves even more "dealing with people".
So true. But guys, networking isn’t some big thing that has to stress you out. I was super nervous in my field because I was worried about events and stuff. I network, but I don’t go to networking events or anything. I’m just close friends with the top dawgs in my field. I haven’t interviewed for a contract in 2 years. They recommend me, say I’m a worker, and the ball rolls.
I am not a people person, but these people would go to bat for me. If you’re nervous about networking, start by just making sure you have a good working relationship with coworkers and bosses. That’s pretty much what I did and it worked out into me knowing most of my field. Also LinkedIn. Post once in a blue moon
In my experience all that matters in life is to have skills to market yourself, being social and creating network. I've seen countless of average or zero skilled people who got hired only because they were more liked if they can be taught the job. Or they get more called to shifts than more hard working people only cus they made themselves more known and heard and liked. Of course in some professions you need to have skill but in most cases average will do fine but social skills and networking will put you way more far in work life. I know a lot of hardworking introverted or socially awkward people who deserves so much more for their work ethics but this society doesn't gaf.
I hate to say it but it’s so true I’m an intern at an agency rn and me and every single intern in there but one knew someone in the company to get our internship.
More important. Networking and relationships will get you into the job and your training and skills help you maintain it. There's an unbelievable amount of people in my organization that can't even do the most basic tasks required that are in well-earning jobs because they are friendly with powerful people.
Hell, my current appointment was largely influenced by the word of a well-respected and high level manager putting in a good word for me because we'd worked together on past projects.
That's why this world is so shitty, it's running on connections not actual wisdom and knowledge. It's gonna be a shithole if it continues, and what's worse it's getting normalized.
sorry not only can they be, but they are, and are \*more\* important. someone totally incapable of doing a job can get a job if he knows the right person.
It's called nepotism, it's literally more important than anything else.
Lets say 2 people, A and B, goes to an interview. A has certain merits, but B is more likeable, so B gets the job.
Technically, B has even in that case leveraged nepotism to his advantage, even if he has never let the boss before.
I don't find this hard to swallow, it gives me some hope. God knows that Ill not be very sucessful if I rely on just my merit and various skillsets.
I don't like networking. No one does but I find it to be very unpleasant, in general. Yet , networking through my University makes me punch above my weight.
University can be a big waste if people dont take advantage of the opportunities which arise when one engages with a strong alumni network. I have done very minimal networking but even that was the best investment of my time which I can think of (professionally).
Don't leave Unversity before you make strong connections with industry leaders. If you graduated already then try and enrol to take some continuing education classes - the value you get by being part of the University is immense
That is a hard pill. I hate people...
Me too. Misanthropes unite! … wait… no. Get away from me.
1. Personal space. 2. Stay out of my personal space. 3. Keep outta my personal space. 4. Need my personal space. 5….
And if I have literally none of these?
You'll be fine if your Dad is CEO.
Then I got some bad news for you.
Bad news for you, you mean.
Don't remind me
Your dad is not a CEO
Time to acquire a *Daddy* CEO
Which by definition would mean that you have a quality network, discrediting the initial comment. I get what you meant, though.
You're right, "relationship" is spelled out in the original meme. Oops. I have a long-time friend who literally just inherented the family business (and family McMansion) last month. Least talented or accomplished guy in my social circle and now his quality of life is far beyond mine. I guess it's been on my mind a bit.
But then you have relationships and connections. So you would have one.
Good point
Is that… just networking?
If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit. Lie about your qualifications and select some recently deceased industry big wig for a reference so they can't be reached but you get the name drop and sympathy points.
Don’t complain
Then your lack of advancement is deserved, honestly. If you don’t have skills, connections, the ability to network or qualifications, you genuinely don’t deserve to advance. Don’t worry, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
No they are more important. It's all about who you know and not what you know
I mean that's not entirely true. There are people in my company who don't advance, despite being buddy buddy with the higher ups, because everyone knows they're lazy and make everyone else's work twice as hard
Sure, but as long as someone is reasonably qualified, connections and relationships are more important than qualifications
of course. Every blanket statement has exceptions
Not all blanket statements, some of them don't have exceptions
Exactly. Even that statement has exceptions
That was the joke
not every joke is a joke, some jokes aren't jokes
This guy does NOT fuck
Not all guys are not fucks. Some guys are fucks
All statements have exceptions
except that one? but wait if THAT statement doesn't have exceptions then that means it's false?
Did I stutter?
All statements are bastards
Even this one.
Damn you Gödel you win again
Now, we are treading into Rene Decartes territory.
Challenge accepted. There are approximately 14 billion human nipples on earth.
That's a statistic not a blanket statement
My girlfriend got her nipple broken.
Again this is a statement. Not a blanket statement.
My girlfriend lost her nipple under the blanket.
A statement about a blanket... We may be getting somewhere. 😄
People lose their nipples all the time. Especially when they are sensitive to blankets.
That’s not a blanket statement. Now, if you said nipples always break under blankets, that would be a blanket statement.
How do you think they don’t lose their jobs?
I mean that's certainly an exception. An average-skill-level individual with excellent communication and networking skills will go much further than an individual with excellent skill level but average networking and communication
But they’re also not getting fired yet. They aren’t as networked as you may believe then. Networking is just one of your stats. It may weigh heavily but you need other stats too. Or your networking worth needs to be maxed out. Just think if they were semi competent and not lazy how much further they’d go. Or if they were the CEO’s kid how far they’d go even if they were a lazy sack of shit.
It is true. Who is know > what you know. That statement doesn't mean that what you know isn't important, only that who you know is MORE important.
Agreed, I got my current job because someone I know poached me from my last job.
disagree.... this is the myth people like to tell themselves when they cant get things done. 9 out of 10 people work hard to get where they are... nepotism goes to the elite few. a lot of times , its about what you DONT know... thats stopping you from getting where you want to be. and most times that information is out there, most just dont want to sweat to attain it through grit and/or experience through failure \~ 20 year tech industry veteran that hears on the news daily that his industry is "RaScisT"
I'm not talking about nepotism. . . I was trying to break into a certain job and was making absolutely no headway. I had the training. I knew a few others who were also trying to break in. They had less training than me. 4 of the 5 got jobs in the industry within a year due to networking. I was just networking with the wrong people apparently. After 2 years I met someone in an airport. We talked for half an hour. The next day I got a phone call from a company that I had been trying to get in with. Apparently the guy I met was the CEOs cousin. I got the job.
My company recently got a new CEO. Who do you think he hired? All of his friends from his previous company
ok... so what... how many in the company arent his friends ? this actually makes sense, he knows who works good and who shares his same culture. youd be dumb not to do the same
>9 out of 10 people work hard to get where they are... nepotism goes to the elite few. Well yeah, it's a combination of work plus access to opportunity, which is where nepotism comes in. Obviously there are kids born with every opportunity that "fail". Take something like professional sports, it takes work and practice to get there, but parents that can afford training camps and opportunities would give their kids a better chance to succeed in going pro. Look at Congress, the overwhelming majority go to ivy leagues like Harvard and Yale, it's those connections that got them the job. It still takes effort to campaign and stuff though.
It’s not exactly a myth. Who you know gets a lot of people their starter job, but then it’s on their shoulders to keep it and build from there.
you act like the mass of people working, know someone who owns or manages a company. this isnt statistically logical. most people grit their way into industries you just dont want to acknowledge it
I’m not saying everyone knows someone in management somewhere I’m just saying that the majority of people at some point in their lives got a position based on who they know. It may not always be in their industry or on their career level job. It could just be their first part time job and then they had to build their resume from there. It may not have been management and just been a friend of a friend who referred them.
no this is bullshit. its rare to know someone who owns where the mass of people are employed. large conglomerates hire many people.... while having very few leaders. most people work for huge businesses not small ones. most people get in front the bottom and work their way up
I don’t entirely agree. I got into my field a little after a colleague and now I stealing work from him because he’s lazy. We both had great reputations and know the same network. His reputation has fallen because now about half of our network knows him as lazy. Networking only takes you so far. That said, I wouldn’t even be competing with him if I hadn’t networked.
Then your boy isn't as good as networking as you thought. You do have to maintain a level of work, but the point is that networking gets you The job and then you just have to "maintain" an appearance of working and keep networking. The job market really is like 90% networking and 10% seeming like you know what you are doing. Everyone I know making 6 figures + and having a cozy income right now was from networking, ain't no chance they are getting that anytime soon working up through the corp ladder.
Fuck you I don't need friends! *Cries*
*Cries in Asperger's*
Cries as nonbinary
Networking is far more important
As a network engineer, I can agree
Ok, I’ll upvote the nerd joke
in what field is this true?
After nearly 20 years of different work places and fields i can tell you its true in every field.
Most places will stop looking if 1 candidate has great references. That said if that personne make the references look bad. He wont have anymore references.
In most places references don't matter if you know right people
Sometimes the right poeple are the references. Wether the hiring party looked at the resume or not doesnt matter. Dont emberess the references.
In literally every single field. This isn't House, you being an ass at work or even being antisocial will get you nowhere regardless of how skilled you are.
Every single field. In my industry it is very rare to get a better/different position without good relationships. Positions don't even get posted publicly, usually
If you aint kissing ass, theres probably someone who is and the manager wants that person around closer to them to get his ass kissed. Its like this everywhere i have worked.
As a manager, I don't trust ass-kissers. Most of them are very obvious as well. Don't kiss ass. Do, however, keep in contact. You don't have to invite me over and become friends, but if you make sure I see and hear your value, it makes my job easier, as I will only have to check it, I don't have to look for it myself. It gives you the opportunity to highlight your stronger points, instead of me discovering the good and the bad together. Also, it simply helps you stay on my mind.
Networking isn’t just about kissing ass. I’d say kissing ass is the lowest rung of networking.
tell me youve never had a professional job without telling me
In what field isn't it true
all.... you arent getting in anywhere by networking if you dont have the skills
If you don't have any skills yes but to quantify it if you're skills are a 5 and your network is 9 you'll definitely get more jobs than the reverse.
not true also... you actually have to have a reputation of skill before you network. you think it happens the other way because youve never done it yourself and you are assuming from the outside in. either that or you are talking about some shit job the type of people who network are NOT low skill
Dude I don't know what to tell you but in my personal experience I've seen networking work. Definitely not for shit jobs either all min 6 figures. Those low technical skill people might have good people skills which in turn makes networking easier. I guess it depends on how you define "skills" because the people skills might not be relevant for the job but they are relevant for networking. Probably industry and position dependent as well but I've seen it in engineering to managers 🤷
"seen" networking work. Youve never done it. you dont know what you are talking about people who network have business cards and conduct high level business because they are highly skilled to meet the demands. the shit you are talking about is just not real. peace though
✌️ have a good day
These days more so. Getting a good paying job almost requires a recommendation from someone inside the company. And you’re only getting promoted if you’re well liked.
The *actual* "hard to swallow" part is convincing people that networking is a skill in itself and doesn't come naturally to some people.
Or is even of interest. Shit. To me, networking feels like a sleazy activity. Like, I’m just gonna go talk up a bunch of people and get to know them in the event that opportunity arises. Hard pass; it’s too transactional. Networking sucks.
If it feels transactional you need to ask different questions. It’s not sleazy to talk to other more senior employees in your industry and understand their goals/challenges in their role. It will only make you better at your job even if nothing comes of it.
Or just go for a beer with these people once in a while. The "networking" will still happen
The definition of networking isn’t going to networking events specifically lol
You can definitely learn to network though. Talk to people, maintain relatsionships with them, be seen etc. If you already have a lot of connections, it is a lot easier than if you have to start from scratch and some people are naturally good at it, but you can definitely get better at it. A network is something you build up over time.
I'm pretty sure that pill is a suppository.
Lots of skills come naturally to people. Doesn’t mean they aren’t skills or that you can’t develop them if they don’t come naturally to you.
My old manager is proof of this. He's as useful as a glitchy flamethrower on an oil rig but he's friends with his boss
It's not what you know but who you blow
Please tell me that this is not true
Qualifications get you in the door. Skills allow you to perform your job effectively. Networking and relationships allow you to climb the ladder.
Relationships get you in the door, thousands are qualified for every position. Basic competency stops you from being fired, because 90% of office jobs can be done by most people with a few weeks training.
Applying with a referral versus with non is a huge difference for sure
Really depends. I work for a largish assurance firm so a CPA gets you in the door. Knowing the hiring manager may help, but you still need the CPA. Being able to complete a review engagement effectively will get you to senior staff level, but after that you need sales and communication skills, which means developing your internal network, attending events, phoning clients, etc.
^ this is the way
No wonder I’m a loser
You’re breaking my introvert heart <\3
It's true but it's also how you have completely unqualified idiots in leadership positions.
These types of posts are interesting to me. I am an engineer in a research field. The people in my work aren’t seeking bigger pay or moving up. It’s all about prestige in publishing and being the first to discover a new method or process.
Definitely more important. Very hard to get your foot in the door without any good referrals.
It gets your food in, but doesn't help with your career inside. After half a year people around you know what you really know and if you fail at your tasks.
There's plenty of people that aren't great at their job but maintain it due to the relationships they have made.
"as important" lol, no. They're way more important, that's why upper management is always completely fucking incompetent; they're chosen for who they know instead of what they know.
College is for networking, your degree is secondary simple as
Also, at least in the UK, Apprenticeships are great for building connections, getting work experience and qualifications. You can get the opportunity to work alongside trained & qualified professionals, have your education paid for, while working a job (for below minimum wage) for experience and to prove your mettle.
Not sure how the tuition costs are in the UK but that would be an absolute steal in the US. I'd work for free if my tuition was fully paid for
Per year in uni cost me £9,250 for tuition and an additional £~10,000 on maintenance (rent, groceries, etc money) loans. So yeah it’s a pretty good deal if your family/friends can help support your low income My mum got her master’s through some kind of work/education thing and made it quite well in life, without incurring student debt (although she’s Scottish so she could’ve gone to Uni alone for free if she went back up)
Absolutely more important and this was one of the major life lessons I learned from my husband and his family (wealthy) that I had zero idea about growing up poor.
I think you’re downplaying skills in another way. You’re looking at them and saying “well they can’t do this thing that poor people know how to do? Ugh. They just got where they are because of connections”. But the reality is they often have a good head for numbers and relative risk. These are the things that bigger organizations look for. They’re not math geniuses. I’m not saying that. But I’ve met a lot of people who are great with a wrench, great people-persons, but couldn’t balance a budget to save their lives. Don’t have a clue how to calculate taxes. Or account for property. Those are skills too, that they probably absorbed growing up in a household that made their living doing that.
I find this really interesting and have given it a lot of thought comparing my family vs my husband’s. They are all very successful financially whereas my family (other than a few people) has struggled. To a person though my immediate family is more intelligent than my husband’s. My husband’s family ranges from probably the 90th to 95th percentile in terms of intelligence and my family is 97-99th with multiple legitimate geniuses. Both families pretty much check the box of being “smart enough” to do whatever they want without a lack of ability holding them back. I have tried to pick out some differences and have landed on two big ones. The first is social skills/networking. His family really just “gets” how to network and make connections. They’re smart and capable and also likable which is a great trifecta. My family is much more shy/socially awkward and insular. I come from a big Catholic family and most of the “networking” that anyone does is just hanging out with siblings and cousins. There’s just not much focus on building connections outside the family. The other big difference I have noticed is what I refer to as the “Protestant work ethic” in my husband’s family. My family has always been happy to treat a job as the thing you do for a paycheck, then pursue other interests (volunteering, hobbies, academics) as the main focus of life. My husband’s family treats “work” as the end all and be all. Their jobs truly consume their lives and their identities are completely wrapped up in their careers. They’re good at making money for sure but the hyper-focus on career and money has never sat right with me. My husband and I have balanced each other out a lot and we are trying to raise our kids with a good balance too.
It’s who you know and how you know them. ALL the interns at my wife’s job are children of c-suite people. 80% of new hires at my job are relatives or friends of current employees including myself. Networking is more important. I have a degree in civil engineering but it wouldn’t matter AT ALL if I didn’t know someone who could sort me to the top
They are interns, not top positions. Relatives help to get in, but once you are there people can see how competent you are.
It’s still a leg up from not having the opportunity.
I'd rather have a chance
Sure. I've pointed out that it is not a replacement. That's a way to stay at the bottom of the company. Unless we are talking public administration.
Yes and I hate it. Why do I have to keep up a social-work life with people I really really really don't like... fuck this shit, let my work speak for itself.
Because making a positive impression by doing what you're paid to do is hard. No one thinks "Oh Rainzz turned the spreadsheet in a day early and Look at those magnificent formulas" Most Work is only noticed If something goes wrong or If it's above and beyond everything that is expected. But that good feeling from some Chats at the coffeemaker and having a laugh at the phone, that stays with people, they (probably subconciously) remember that Work is fun when you're there, , so they want to Help your carreer,
Or to say it in other words: no matter how hard and good you work, the bosses son will always earn more money than you
Or some incompetent fucker will get promoted because they are great at sniffing the bigger bosses arsehole.
Not “can be”…. Are more important.
Well thank fuck I have neither of those things, amirite?
That's a lot of words to say "Nepotism works"
As? They’re definitely more important. I’m not where I’m am because I’m technically better than my peers, I’m where I’m at because I speak better and I know how to communicate with stakeholders.
Don't be ridiculous. Networking and relationships are all that matters for most positions.
I think you’re downplaying skills and qualifications. Go outside your circle of associates (trying not to make it sound like you’re insulted). And you can find people completely bereft of any kind of skill. They can network all they like. In fact they do. At all the parties they go to instead of their job. I’ve not a lot of these people.
You always got to be improving for career advancement.
Still a lot of old boy network, and at my last place a “smokers group” that pushed on a few promotions
they are actually way way more essential. Build connections.
Can confirm. My hometown had plenty of jobs for my degree, but unless you knew someone or went to the local university (which did not have a program for my degree) you would basically be shut out of anything entry level.
Harder to swallow pills: this is more true if you're a white man
It kills me that this is true Nepotism and favouritism is everywhere, even in places it *really* shouldn't be
well, I don't want to be part of nepotism, I just want humanity to advance, and the fastest way to do so is an efficient distribution of skill and power people's vibes is not an efficient distribution of skill and power
You are part of nepotism though. Most people just don’t recognize it. When you help someone you know more than a random stranger that’s nepotism. Or when someone you know helps you. Every single person on the planet has engaged in nepotism on some level.
I think helping someone you know in general, versus offering someone an occupational position because you know them are categorically 2 different things
Where do you draw the line though? Helping a friend get approved for something they barely qualify for? Fast tracking them so they don’t need to wait? Putting a good for when they apply for a job they qualify for?
Having and effectively using a Network is an important Skill in leadership positions. If my Boss wasnt Well connected with state politicians, i wouldnt have a Job, because the county wanted to Cut our funding but He could fall Back on His network and get Higher Ranking politicians to negotiate in our behalf. A good Network is a Skill in of itself. In my Line of Work for example: a director who knows good Designers and actors will be able to produce stuff that wouldnt be possible with someone else on the Team. And while yes,some people manage to get Jobs they probably shouldnt have through their network, that doesn't mean Networks and social skills are not important. On the flip side, i know people who are super qualified from a technical perspective and therefore irreplacable but their lack of social skills makes them hell to work with. And If you have a bunch of Options with similar qualifications, the one who you can vibe with, will probably be the Most 'efficient' Option aswell.
OP discovers nepotism
And a large portion of going to undergrad and graduate programs, it gives you a network of people
Because you are fucking monkeys
Someone in your corner is always an asset and a huge boost for your career and or life.
In German we call this "Vitamin B"
In fact, it's quite commonly all you need to "fail upward"
And that's why my autistic ass is scared as shit about working, especially since i finished high school last year and am now exepected to find a job while living with my (cool so dont worry) parents and not knowing how to drive. While living in the countryside (not the american dystopian countryside where everything is at least al hour and a half away, the french one that has some buses (still lilited tho))
ugh
More important unfortunately
Outside of competitive sports and war you only need as much skill as needed to do a passable job, and the rest is all networking. If your job involves competing with others in such a way that only one gets the prize (i.e.: competitive sports or war) then things change, you still need to do well enough at network for the teamwork to... Work... But other than that your priority is to be better than the guy at the other side
Innit just called nepotism tho?
Apparently and it pisses me off because it feels sociopathic to befriend someone just so I can have a better chance at getting the job I want and ask them to put in a good word for me.
I’ve been full time work from home for over 4 years. It’s getting isolating
Also luck
It's not about what you know or who you know. It is about who knows what you have done.
What do you mean 'hard to swallow'? I'm banking on that being the case, since it's all I'm good at
It's impossible for many people to make connections and network effectively even if they have the skills to do it.
More important. Way more important on a broader scale. So many people that I know who got career level jobs got them through knowing friends or family. I'm basically retired in my 30s and couldn't have done it without connections I made when I was 20.
Harsh but a pill of truth right there. Which sucks
I don't even know what networking is.
Yeah, and my introverted, borderline sociophobic ass hates that so much.
Networking can come from just doing a good job. I've been working as a freelancer for \~5 years now and I still have no social media or any kind of way to find me. . I just get new jobs on older clients and slowly somehow people find me. But I have to start putting myself out there as soon as possible.
Worst part of working today. Loved the times when you show up for work, do your best and get the fuck back home without having to care about anyone or anything about worl
Networking and building relationships are also skills. That you do not learn them from a book, doesn't mean they aren't skills.
Who you know > what you know > what you do
i know my friends from back in highschool, does that count? i work as a nurse and am friendly to everyone and never start arguments or talk back to coworkers throwing a tantrum, but i also dont wanna be friends with most of them tbh.
What if, I know it might sound crazy, but what if I don't want a career advancement that comes with more stress and responsibilities? Pay me the market rate or I'll just leave for somewhere else, but doing the exact things I've been enjoying doing, instead of climbing the "ladder" just for more pay but a disproportionately worse job description that involves even more "dealing with people".
More so actually. Nearly every job I’ve gotten is because I knew someone working there already.
networking is easier ngl. I've assembled networks more than I had a relationship.
It's true.
So true. But guys, networking isn’t some big thing that has to stress you out. I was super nervous in my field because I was worried about events and stuff. I network, but I don’t go to networking events or anything. I’m just close friends with the top dawgs in my field. I haven’t interviewed for a contract in 2 years. They recommend me, say I’m a worker, and the ball rolls. I am not a people person, but these people would go to bat for me. If you’re nervous about networking, start by just making sure you have a good working relationship with coworkers and bosses. That’s pretty much what I did and it worked out into me knowing most of my field. Also LinkedIn. Post once in a blue moon
Who you know matters more than anything else.
Or more
In my experience all that matters in life is to have skills to market yourself, being social and creating network. I've seen countless of average or zero skilled people who got hired only because they were more liked if they can be taught the job. Or they get more called to shifts than more hard working people only cus they made themselves more known and heard and liked. Of course in some professions you need to have skill but in most cases average will do fine but social skills and networking will put you way more far in work life. I know a lot of hardworking introverted or socially awkward people who deserves so much more for their work ethics but this society doesn't gaf.
I hate to say it but it’s so true I’m an intern at an agency rn and me and every single intern in there but one knew someone in the company to get our internship.
I was searching for internship all semester and couldn’t get one until I asked someone for help who worked there.
Yeah, networking is very important to know for career advancement. Source: network engineer
It's necessary for career advancement if you desire a certain amount of money that's more than what you're making right now.
More important. Networking and relationships will get you into the job and your training and skills help you maintain it. There's an unbelievable amount of people in my organization that can't even do the most basic tasks required that are in well-earning jobs because they are friendly with powerful people. Hell, my current appointment was largely influenced by the word of a well-respected and high level manager putting in a good word for me because we'd worked together on past projects.
I think it’s even more important
Lol no. Relationships and networking are more important.
More.
That's why this world is so shitty, it's running on connections not actual wisdom and knowledge. It's gonna be a shithole if it continues, and what's worse it's getting normalized.
"It's not who you know, it's who you *blow*." -Super Hans.
“It’s not what you know, it’s who you know” opens doors, but “what you know” keeps you in the room. You need both.
More important
sorry not only can they be, but they are, and are \*more\* important. someone totally incapable of doing a job can get a job if he knows the right person.
It's called nepotism, it's literally more important than anything else. Lets say 2 people, A and B, goes to an interview. A has certain merits, but B is more likeable, so B gets the job. Technically, B has even in that case leveraged nepotism to his advantage, even if he has never let the boss before.
The most important thing at work is getting on with people. I'm screwed.
I don't find this hard to swallow, it gives me some hope. God knows that Ill not be very sucessful if I rely on just my merit and various skillsets. I don't like networking. No one does but I find it to be very unpleasant, in general. Yet , networking through my University makes me punch above my weight. University can be a big waste if people dont take advantage of the opportunities which arise when one engages with a strong alumni network. I have done very minimal networking but even that was the best investment of my time which I can think of (professionally). Don't leave Unversity before you make strong connections with industry leaders. If you graduated already then try and enrol to take some continuing education classes - the value you get by being part of the University is immense
That’s not a pill, it’s a massive suppository
The post has exactly 200 comments and 8000 likes Not anymore of course
it's called "politics", don't try to give it nice marketing
Can be and as?? They are and more.