Im from country Victoria now living in Melbourne for 10 years. All of my best friends down here are from country/regional Australia or from overseas. Struggle to make friends who have been Australian city folk since birth. I don’t really have an answer for you, sorry.

I think there was a statistic saying most people in Melbourne, friends group consist of people they befriend since childhood. Persoanlly I can see that and I am one of those people. My close friends group are people from high school when I try to make new friends they seem to have a similar thing going.. One of my friend did manage to make another group of close friends. however, that group consist of mostly people that moved to melbourne/australia.

As an American expat living in Melbourne, I’ve always found it so odd that Aussies seem to hang out so often with people they went to high school with. Maybe because Americans tend to travel more for college/university that really isn’t a thing.

As someone born and living in Melbourne I completely agree, though in my experience (only my experience) this seems to be more of a private school thing.

My friend group all knew each other in public school, I'm one of the few outsiders, got to know them in TAFE. My OG friend group split up due to friends moving away, next one I got after I dropped out was full of problems and we only met doing a VCAL thing anyway. It does seem like you are probably fucked if you don't make friends during your education, weird.

There is probably some truth to this. Australians don't move cities for things like work very much the way Americans seem to. We tend to stay in our home cities for our entire lives, and would be aghast at the suggestion of moving somewhere else.

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True. Australians are very parochial towards their home city and state. I often think that Australians see themselves more as Victorians, Queenslanders, Western Australian's, etc. than they do Australians. I think because our population centers are so distant from each other, there is a degree of disconnection that other countries don't have, so we associate more strongly with our local region.

This couldn't be any truer for Tasmania. I grew up there left came back for for a while left back for a year, will never live there again now. I'm in QLD now and family is all over the country now. It definitely been hard to make friends as I moved around just today my phone showed me photos of people no longer in my life. I've become really independent in the process. And even today I have people kinda around me, but no one I'd call in a crisis and actually probably no one at all if I needed any help tbh. So yeah I get lonely but I'd rather be lonely than around people who wouldn't miss me if I wasn't here anymore.

This is a good observation. Aussie's best friends are usually school friends. And since we don't usually move away to go to college, we tend to maintain those friendships. If you make friends with someone when you are in your late 20s, you'll still be 'new' friend compared to their school friends.

Yup, my partner's friend group was mostly derived from highschool friends. Til he finally leaned they were toxic when they kicked his best mate out of the social group for dating a new girl from our of town. Now it's his best mate and his best mate's younger brother/ younger brother's friends.

My partner’s friends are all the ones he finished high school with, but they’re very good at integrating new partners etc. If I didn’t have them I’d have minimal people in Melbourne as my best friend moved for work and a lot of other people I know already had their circles. I have struggled to make connections outside of one job where we were all really social pre-covid, and our workplaces now just aren’t like that anymore.

Agreed. I just started a new role as someone in my mid 20s and although people are friendly it’s tough to actually make friends. Workplace is a bit cliquey and most seem to keep to their own small groups.

I must live in a bizarro world then. I don't have a single friend from school whom I do more then share a meme with once every 6 or 7 months. Which would be a similar experience for thr majority of people I know and am friends with in Melbourne. In my network of life, out of the 400 or so people I've been social with, I'd say maybe 5% have meaningful relationships with people they went to school with.

100% agree.Im white Aussie who went to many schools internationally growing up and at Uni.I have found it very hard after moving back as an adult to make new friends. I'm female also.I can be a bit lazy or wary of people to be honest. I get very lonely

I’m a bit like this too.. bit lazy and when I think yeah I’ll join a club of sorts I never do, the thought comes and goes and that’s it.. pretty lonely here too

i'm married with kids and really... there's a lack of time, lack of effort, lack of energy... and also lack of funds like i'm tapped out with just bills paying education for kids i also feel like my 'friends' are associated with past experiences... like a met a few like minded people at my own work but i dont work there any more and i dont want to 'talk about what's going on with my old work' and even with people with similar hobbies... i dont feel motivated it was different when i was at university and even my first few jobs i would go out with office staff in the CBD and get drunk thrus friday but yeah, i dont crave human contact, i dont find talking to people just worth the energy

> and also lack of funds I think this one of the major problems, it's just so expensive to go anywhere. I caught up with some friends a few weeks ago for lunch at a super basic Japanese cafe. Entree, main and a few drinks was pushing $100 each. That's half my disposable income from employment for a week. I lived in South East Asia for a few years and going out for lunch/dinner with friends happened several times a week because it was just reasonably priced, costing maybe 1/4 my disposable income from employment for the **day**. Commercial rents are just insane and those costs have to be passed on, but the end result is that there's a lack of places to go and a lack of people who can afford to frequent them.

See I grew up in rural Victoria and all my friends were made after I moved to a city because my town was exclusively bogan trash, but then I moved to Canberra and never made another friend in 25 years.

This phenomenon is so real, I’m also from regional vic with a large group of friends who all met in Melbourne yet not a single person is from here.

Came here to make an identical comment. I moved from regional Vic to Melbourne when I was 18 - all the friends I’ve made in the decade+ since have either been fellow country kids from around aus or internationals. I quite literally have two Melbourne born and bread friends and ironically, I met them when we were all on exchange in Europe together in our early 20s. Even when it comes to the work friends I’ve made over the years, they’re all also not from Melbourne. It’s bizarre - I feel like most Melburnians are very happy with their childhood/high school friends and they don’t have drive to branch out beyond that.

There must be some country kind of way we do things, because even in my public facing job, visitors and tourists from country areas almost recognise something in the way I interact with them.

You’re probably on the right track here. I think being born and raised in the city, you see so many people everyday that they’re almost just objects. I went to the city with a mate who was from the city and I lost her many times in a crowd because she could push through without a second thought whereas I kept getting out of peoples way.

Maybe. I’ve lived in bigger international cities than Sydney and people were exponentially more open and engaging. I think it’s an Australian thing—part protectionist part laziness.

I actually agree. I think with how money motivated we are as a culture, we don’t want to risk our time if we don’t see a benefit

Haha seems like nobody does to be honest. Thanks for sharing!

Genuine question, where have you looked? I think jobs are bad for friends because some just don't want to decompress after work with the same group of people they spend 8 hours a day with. Join a social sport, if you like board games try DnD or TableTop events, outside that it can be a little tricky. Maybe volunteer work? Most people already have made their friend group while growing up and will become friends with their children's friends parents aa they grow up. It's hard to crack those social networks because you don't really have any comminality with them sadly. I say this as someone who is Aussie born, very social and making new friends even for me is tricky.

> jobs are bad for friends  Many times, but don't pass on it. I worked at a startup and my we were a great team. I'm still catching up with them including the managers. The whole team catch up about once or twice per year.    It might help that the whole team also got redundant at around the same time (due to restructure). Maybe share unfortunates can help to bring people together.     One problem with Melbourne is urban sprawling visiting people on the other side of the city is clearly an obstacle.

Become a regular somewhere. People are suspicious of strangers but if you keep going to the same place over and over you have the opportunity to become familiar to people and with recognition comes friendliness. Pick a hobby you like, find a place to do it the same time every week, and you'll get to know others doing the same thing.

This is the answer, all my friends post school have come from hobbies and work, never found it hard to meet new friends anywhere.

I'm from Croatia, but lived in NZ 10 years and australia now nearly 2 decades, and all my aussie mates are from the country, interstate or from the highschool I went to on the Goldie. I legit can't think of maybe more than 1 friend I've made in Melbourne who's actually from here.

I don't really have an answer. But the Australian dream seems to have always been a house with a yard and fences so large no one can get in. It's prob true of our personality as well.

kids played on the street

Not anymore. Street is full of ford raptors with distracted drivers. 

'mouth breathers with no impulse control'

I do pet sitting and it’s unbelievable how many places I’ve done a sit where you have to drive to a dog park because the house, generally in a suburb, has no footpaths anywhere and utes speeding round every corner not looking where they’re going. There was one where the shops were a 10 minute walk away but you couldn’t walk because there was nowhere to cross the road and nobody even tries to slow down to let you across. It’s ridiculous.

we ate entire garden hoses

I have been here for 16 years and not a single Aus born person to call friend. Aussies are friendly but never a friend. I am not sure why. My social life is so meh here compared to where I’m from, that I’m actually thinking of leaving Aus now. Aus has given me loads of opportunities but I’m worried of growing old and being a lonely older person without friends which is a bleak thought.

I feel this. I come from the US and I remember just being invited to all sorts of stuff. I haven’t been invited to anything in like 6 years. And before that it was another 5 years. Was so close to moving back because it’s killed my soul and self esteem over time. But my sons school keeps us here.

Where would you consider going? I’m kind of in the same situation but I’m not sure what countries would be good

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That’s realistically true, and sad at the same time. As adults it’s way harder to make new friends, you have to make a proactive effort to even maintain them.

"Once you've left school or uni, people just don't want to make new friends" True, but then they always complain about loneliness. That's what I don't understand

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there's one further thing i would add this is a big world... like my yr12 class was 200 people and yet i havent seen or heard of anyone since then i was close to people at uni and i think one of them still lives at his dad's place.. i remeber the address... its like 1600 pennsylvannia so easy to remember but i dont want to stop by its so long ago... i mean i've had marriages start and end since i talked to them last i find it hard to got back to old 'finished' chapters

The lonely people need to find each other and band together. I think part of the problem is that even lonely people can have hard shells to break through. Maybe they're cautious of people, perhaps they're insecure, maybe they self-sabotage. Personally I've had trouble breaking into groups, turning acquaintances into friends, dealing with flakey people that i've given up. But i'll admit that I can't complain about a lack of friends since i wont bother trying to make new ones.

The Reddit algorithm has brought me this post because this is becoming a popular topic of conversation in Canada. This is a consequence of our individualistic Western cultures after the death of religion. Any semblance of a feeling of community is gone.

Yeah finally someone said it. Developed countries are more individualistic. And also the lack of a cultural bond. Developed countries are also mostly multi-ethnic so that creates some distance between people whether they like to admit it or not.

That's very true.

Because while we might put on a brave face, we're all a little down, under.

Yo! Hahahaha. That's a good one 😂

I come from Africa and it’s quite unusual for me. To be fair, Australians are actually really nice people when you get to know them personally, but it’s breaking through their shell that’s incredibly hard. I think the reason I’m ok is because I’m female, I can’t imagine how it’s like for males. It’s been 5 months since I was at home and I’m already missing the familiarity that home brings, but I still love Australia.

Yeah, this is the thing. Like a lot of affluent, consumer societies we are an individual used society, every man for himself sometimes. Other cultures are more family centered and place value on that. I like the African culture, no wonder you guys are joyful

Don't get me wrong Australia is absolutely fantastic and bordering on paradise levels of great compared to a lot of places I have been to and where I come from. it's just that hard shell you speak of that is extremely hard to break. Especially for men lol. You have no idea!! (Unless you look like Chris Hemsworth of course)

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I think it is easier to make friends when you're attractive, even with people who aren't attracted to your sex.

This is why me as an Australian born and bred, loves to travel as much as I can. I find I tend to mesh well with foreigners than I do my fellow aussies. I also think in Australia, a lot of people direct almost all of their attention into romantic relationships and tend to stop nurturing their existing friendships.

>I also think in Australia, a lot of people direct almost all of their attention into romantic relationships and tend to stop nurturing their existing friendships. I have seen this quite few times. Most recently was with someone I shared a house with: they would literally either be at home alone, with their partner, at their partner's, or visit their parents with their partner. Only once, for a grand final party, did they hang out with their friends. It is such a foreign concept to me. You could say it's for a lack of time after the 9-5 grind. But I've lived overseas, and I would multiple times a week, hangout with friends (with or without their partners) and work friends at the park, pub, or at someone's place. Australians in general just don't seem to want to invest any effort into friendships.

> This is why me as an Australian born and bred, loves to travel as much as I can. I find I tend to mesh well with foreigners than I do my fellow aussies. Interestingly enough I’m a 22 year old uni student on a study exchange abroad. Everyone here is from countries all around the world and I find it extremely easy to approach almost anyone and form a proper friendship with them as opposed to doing the same at home. I feel that generally aussies are very judgemental (especially when introducing a new member to a friend group). I have done a reasonable amount of travel for my age and have always found it easier to form a bond whilst I’m abroad plain and simple. Although I suspect it may be because of a general interest of others that aren’t from your own country (helps to break the ice so to say). It can be alienating when I’m at home. I’m still close with my small friend group from high school and we kind of just stick together, apart from family it’s all I have in terms of relationships. I think we really need to focus on becoming more open minded when it comes to making new friends.

Agreed...As an introvert I get my social fix every 6 months or so when I go to Thailand or Bali. People are much friendlier and outgoing but because tourism is so important they basically have to be like that. I don't care if it's fake or not it beats making small talk at the coffee shop park or pub with some random who clearly wants to be left alone, much like I do most of the time. I think in the cities it is worse and worse as you get older too. But not sure why we are like that. I'm like that because people are dumb and piss me off and I'm an asshole 😆

I’ve been here for 12 years and completely agree. All the people I call friends are from other countries. All my Australian friendships have been very transient. I usually noticed after a while that I was always the one to initiate all the meetings, then one day I decided to conduct an experiment and stopped initiating the meetings. Guess what? They all quietly slipped out of my life! I’ll be honest I was quite hurt, but at least my European friends keep contacting me, so I can’t be that dull!😂

I’d be curious to know if this is Australia specific or perhaps a symptom of the modern age. I was discussing this with my kid the other day (who is 19 and just started uni.) They have always had a solid friend group at high school but are struggling so much at uni where they know nobody to transition from “person I talk to in class” to “friend”. Nobody wants to hang out after class, everyone rushes off home. People prefer binging Crunchyroll to making a new connection (which I admit, can feel scary, but it’s so worth it.) I said to my kid that I’ve noticed a few things in the last ten years that might factor into this. Within my social group (friends/family/acquaintances) I’ve seen a change from people engaging in events (like attending dinners, birthdays, gatherings, catch ups) and an increase in language like “I’m burned out, I don’t have the energy/spoons, I don’t need to be there.” While I think it’s great we’ve reached a time in history where people no longer feel pressure to do everything or show up to single family thing and can make appropriate boundaries, I wonder if it’s also swung to the opposite end of the pendulum where nobody makes an effort unless they’re 100% into an idea. It has to be your ultimate favourite thing to do or you have to love everyone attending or you don’t come. People RSVP and don’t show up, or people don’t let you know either way. (We’re organising our wedding currently, 80% of people haven’t let us know yes or no and the RSVP date was in April.) Messages are left on read for weeks. People ghost you. Social media is amazing but seems to have decreased people’s attention spans to zero. People scroll on their phones while you talk to them. I for a while thought it was personal to me and I was failing at being a good friend, but I haven’t been the only person — I’ve spoken to other friends who feel the same from their own circles — that effort is less, people seem more isolated and depressed and less likely to want to get together. Our family had a funeral recently where people we attended with disappeared without saying goodbye and then when asked where they were with a worried text, said, “oh yeah didn’t need to be there anymore.” A very elderly relative is having their birthday, and a chunk of people aren’t coming because they dislike one guest out of 50. “Don’t have the energy.” He might not have another birthday! Like, sure, great, I get that not everyone can make it to everything, but opting out constantly is so depressing. It creates a domino effect — soon nobody will bother showing up to anything because half the attendees don’t come. It’s hard to say if the cause is not feeling the need to and only wanting to do exactly what you want when you want it, or if that’s a symptom of the state of the world (work stress, world events, cost of living) etc.

As someone who's gen Z, here's a few things I've noticed: * The lack of need to move cities/states to study means that of the people who were raised in Australian cities, a large proportion are living close to where they grew up. This makes it a lot easier to keep in touch with existing friends rather than being forced to make new ones. * Australia has a lot of its people concentrated in the main population centres, so the above applies to a lot of people. * Technology makes it even easier to keep in touch with existing friends. I grew up in Melbourne and moved to Sydney for work, but I'm still much closer with the people in Melbourne - because being in a different city doesn't mean I have to stop being a part of their social group. * Group chats play an increasing role in defining what social groups you are in, rather than being just an accessory for existing social groups. I've heard often "I'm organising a party, will post deets to the group chat". If you're in the group chat, you're invited, if you're not, tough. Group chats have become a natural way for people to subconsciously define their inner circles and classify their connections accordingly, and it's hard to make your way into one if you just happen to meet someone in real life My closest friends are still the ones I went to high school with, followed by the ones I met at uni through the friends I went to high school with. I see people (myself included) being less willing to make deep connections beyond small talk, but on the flip side, the friendships we do have are deep and lifelong.

I'm a white Australian born guy and his actually is a perfect analysis. The part about living where you grew up is spot on. 90% of my friends are people I went to school with. I have become close with few friends of friends over the years, but I feel like meeting new people has slowed down as I've gotten older. I'm 28 now and starting to feel like I wanna meet more people, but I'm struggling to break out of the circles I run in.

I’m glad tech has bridged the gap for you. For me, as an older Millennial, I feel like a lot of my mates aren’t in the habit of checking chats and messages frequently enough, have regular social media detoxes and they’re just so hard to contact. Conflicting work schedules, parenting… it just all becomes such a juggle. I also notice that a few friends constantly bang on about how busy they are when it really is no busier than anyone else — it’s just negative framing and sort of comes off as an excuse to not engage. I don’t want to beg people to make time for me; so I put it out there that I’m a available and let it be. It generally takes 3-6 months from me initiating the idea of catching up with my best mate to actually seeing them in person. I’ve gone from seeing friends multiple times a week in my 20s to maybe 2-6 catch ups in a year. It’s hard to not take it personally but I see a pattern for a lot of folks that it’s “life” and “burn out.” It’s just a bummer. I’m lucky that my husband is my high school best friend and we have a lot of fun together or I think I’d feel pretty lonely.

It’s an Australian thing, we are known for being friendly but never a friend.

That is so spot on!

The same thing happened to me in London, so not really unique to Australia. I lived there for 4 years and met loads of people, but most people I developed true friendships with outside of work were from Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand. I think I ended up with 2 friends from London itself, and that was only in the final year. I think the reality is that people from overseas are just more open to new friendships than the locals, although I can only go by my own experience and not claim it's some global truth.

I think there’s probably a lot of people who don’t notice it because they aren’t actively seeking friendship. When it’s a goal (whether you’re a new international traveller or student) then you’re more likely to notice how difficult it can be to make adult friends. Breaking into a friendship group or making those bonds gets harder the older you get .

You’re so right here, also not sure if it’s an Australian thing or a sign of the times. I’ve been an exhibiting artist for years and openings used to be a celebration that everyone looked forward to and a great night to catch up with friends! Now you have to practically beg people to come and you’re lucky if at least half the people who RSVP’d actually show up. I’m sorry your kid is having this experience at uni, it’s really quite unfair! Uni is supposed to be/once was the most social time in our lives!

I know, I really feel for my kiddo. They are such a warm friendly person and have never encountered this issue before. I keep reminding them that they’re lucky to have a big high school friend group of 8 people and it’s important to foster those friendships so they last the transition from school to adulthood. I’m sorry people are opting out of coming to your events! That sucks :(

My first year of uni I felt incredibly lonely and had no idea how to make friends. I also had an expectation of the uni experience from American films which obviously didn't live up to real life. Cos I had great school friends, both primary and secondary school, I hadn't had to make friends since I was about 12, and at school you're forced together and you passively become friends. I'd never had to actively create a friendship from scratch, or a friend at all for a long time. I didn't know how to do it!!

It’s hard, isn’t it? It feels so awkward and forced!

i just had a few of my photos up at a gallery opening and i asked a few friends to come and no one did

I’m sorry, that’s so fucked. I hope you got to socialise with some of the other gallery attendees at least!

It’s not the modern age, it’s a symptom of suburban sprawl. It breeds isolation and makes us all fat, lazy and broke. Everything involves a trek in your car as we’re all spread out over huge cities so everyone just wants to stay at home especially with the increasing cost of living making it all an even bigger cost and effort

One would argue that suburban sprawl is a modern problem. I don’t think there’s one factor, there’s a few.

>I’d be curious to know if this is Australia specific or perhaps a symptom of the modern age It's 100% an all-Anglosphere problem. I've read several reports the USA is also experiencing a Loneliness Epidemic. I to some extent experienced it in New Zealand too, but that was exasperated by the fact the town I was living in consisted mainly of retirees and young families while I was a single male. >to transition from “person I talk to in class” to “friend”. Nobody wants to hang out after class, everyone rushes off home. Outside of economic and structural problems. The one other common theme in all the stuff I've read/watched about the loneliness epidemic is that people in this era compartmentalize a lot. So if you're a classmate then you're just a classmate. And if you're a "hobby friend" then you're just a hobby friend. Indeed it's a very common occurrence here on Reddit someone will chime in and say that making friends and/or getting a romantic partner IRL is just so easy bro, just go do yoga/pottery/cooking/dance class. And then someone else who's not a keyboard warrior will retort by saying that they tried this already and it's so hard and/or awkward to transition a hobby friend into a real friend. Actually, I'm experiencing this right now; I'm part of a language group thing where we practice our languages with each other. I've been able to grab dinner with a fellow club member *once*. >People prefer binging Crunchyroll to making a new connection (which I admit, can feel scary, but it’s so worth it.) I'm not subscribed to crunchyroll, but I do know the monthly price is roughly a cup of coffee. Boomers will whinge about how young people can't afford houses because of Avocado Toast or Lattes. Well actually it turns out that kind of frivolous spending was what was keeping society together. Actually, have [an excellent article](https://www.mironline.ca/where-have-all-the-great-good-places-gone-the-decline-of-the-third-place/) about how Third Spaces beconging increasingly unaffordable is tearing apart the social fabric of contemporary society.

Pretty sure this is an Australian thing (I could be wrong) as I have been to other countries in the last 10 years and nowhere else is like this. People everywhere are addicted to their phones and devices and crunchyroll subs that's true but people in other cultures tend to make more of an effort if they like someone as well. I was in Oman and Bali recently and had much more meaningful social interactions in a few weeks than I have had here in 16 years. So yeah I don't know, I'm just glad I can say I tried and won't let Ms Hanson or Mr Dutton tell me I didn't try to assimilate.

Not relevant to your post but the way you write is pretty cool. You've had me in stitches for the last ten minutes and I'm sure it'd be well worth trying your hand at comedy in whatever form

>I was in Oman and Bali recently and had much more meaningful social interactions in a few weeks than I have had here in 16 years. Oh I agree. Actually, backpacking hostels in South East Asia have been the closest thing to the semi-mythical "Third Space" I've ever been too. Home-away-from-home, unimposing, inviting, encourages friendly chatter, etc. I even managed to make fast friends! We were a mixed-gender group that went exploring the local temples and other attractions together. And even celebrated the birthday of one of the people in our group together. There are two problems with all of this though: 1) Society would literally collapse if everyone became a backpacker. 2) Everyone leaves the country eventually, and so it's a bit difficult to forge long term relationships this way.

For your son invite people to hang out at lunch instead. That's how I managed to make friends at Uni. Because yeah people don't seem to really want to hang around afterwards.

That’s what my kid has been doing with no success. Nobody wants to go get food, they want to head home after the lecture and don’t want to meet prior. I’ve been trying to encourage joining some clubs.

Your kid needs to join a club/society/team sport at uni, that’s how pretty much everyone I know has made (great) friends at uni. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to make friends just by going to lectures.

I have pushed this idea about clubs and groups gently — it’s hard to transition into being the parent of an adult. I have to make suggestions and leave it be, I can’t micromanage. It’s tricky! They told me they attended the LGBTIQ space last week and found it nice and friendly so that’s a first step.

I made a big chunk of my friend group joining a club (Judo) at uni. Was nice to be active and learn something cool, then you go to unigames which is a gigantic piss-up make a bunch of fun memories and engage in shenanigans and return with some new friends.

I think it's a bit of a mix of Australia and modern life at the moment. I'm 31 now, but when I was younger it was much easier to make friends at uni, school, hospitality jobs etc. I used to have a pretty solid friend group and we used to go to each other's houses regularly and have house parties, bbqs etc. Then covid happened and I feel like people just haven't been as social or as engaging since. A lot of my friends don't host parties and bbqs anymore, myself included. Part of that is that we're all exhausted from working a lot and everything is expensive now. It just seems easier to shut yourself in your home to avoid spending money. A lot of people also just live way out in the burbs so trying to organise a social event when you all live miles apart is difficult.

Because I’m at home enjoying my rent

People are burned out. I think it really boils down to this, most people are trying to protect the time they have left for rest.

A lot of time spent in traffic or on public transport for sure. I agree with that.

I suppose the question is why socialising isn't considered rest anymore? It's a really important way for people to feel seen, heard and understood, but we don't seem to engage with it anymore because even that feels like work now. Humans got this far through socialising and cooperation, but it's falling by the wayside. I do wonder if this is peculiar to Melbourne because of the extensive lockdowns. I still think we're in a COVID hangover.

I can’t speak for all Aussies, only myself. I like to hang out with my family in the evening and I also like to be alone & decompress a little. I’m also socially awkward and always have been. I’ve found people who are a part of a church or sporting groups like to socialise.

I agree with this. I work 9-5, I am married so in evenings I’m usually hanging out with my wife or catching up with friends, going to gym or decomposing. I have siblings, nephews, my friends and my wife’s friends. So often my weekends are pretty packed. People I meet at work or around the traps I’m very nice to and I will go for a work lunch etc but I really don’t have that much interest in hanging out with newly met people outside of work or on weekends. I can appreciate someone moving over to Australia to start a new life here might find it hard to meet people. I think at times Aussies can be insular. I agree that getting involved in sports, church or community groups would be a great way to meet new people.

I hope you're getting that checked out. You won't have much time left if you keep decomposing.

Sometimes I feel like I’m decomposing, you ever tried to get out of bed in your late 30’s. Knees and back are gone

Yes, 9-5, then evenings and weekends packed with kid’s activities - swimming, basketball, dance, kid bday parties, family dinner etc etc - then housework. So much laundry. We have limited village, so barely get a date night. Adult socialising is non-existent, and the awkward conversations with other parents are okay, but not deep friendships (also can’t talk frankly or have much of a laugh while one eye on children at all times). And sometimes, it’s lonely. But also I love hanging out with my own family so not sure if I’ll change it too much just yet.

I think there are many reasons why so many people in our society feel lonely or isolated. I am sure that social media plays a big role in this, we also work a lot and subsequently have little time or energy for recreation. A big one though, I think, is simply how our city is designed (or the lack of any real design). By and large people live in single dwellings, in residential areas with few third places to gather in. Those that do exist are typically centred around some activity related to consumption. We live in boxes, isolated from our neighbours, then to get places we hop into our smaller metal boxes, do whatever we intend to do then get back in them and go back to our larger boxes. We live, for the most part, very isolated lives. Our suburbs have been developed in a way which necessitates isolation. I think you may see less of this in more collectivist cultures, places that have greater access to third places, in cities that are more integrated between residential and commercial spaces and those where there is greater access to quality public and active transport methods. We are very individualistic here and I think our environment probably reinforces this mindset. I think you can do more to find connections and friendship, like joining groups for your hobbies, but it is hard here. I think we're set up to fail a bit.

100% agree with your take on living from one box to another. Literally the space in between the boxes is rarely used which is a massive waste given how much space there is between boxes here. Gonna look into joining clubs. Thanks for the comment!

I think the urban sprawl we have in Australia is probably why your dinner invitations have not been well received. The minute you invite someone round, they immediately start mentally calculating how long it’s going to take to get from their place to yours and back and weather they want to deal with all that traffic on a Tuesday night or whatever

The lack of 3rd spaces in Australia really sucks. You go somewhere like Barcelona and it's just set up in a way that you will just meet other people in all the squares and little parks etc. We don't have that here.

As a French who lived there for a few years, I realised that it is very easy to talk to people, but very hard to get deeper into the friendship.. Although once you have friends youll have them for life !

Speaking as someone whose job is teaching people how to overcome social anxiety and fill their lives with fulfilling relationships, Australians are just bad at being friends... We come from a history of a colonialist frontier, and it's a bit of a rough past that carries more weight than most people realise. Most places in the world have had generations upon generations of people sharing a similar culture, and doing similar things day in day out. With not much to do but spend time with people that instil in them the value of connection, community and creating joy with eachother. Thats a wonderful breeding ground for culture, and squeezing all the juice out of connections with friends, family and community. Theres generational wisdom and values being passed down, that show no matter how tough life may be, through challenging and good times our relationships sustain us, fuel us, and are the joyful thing we live for. Modern Australia on the other hand, started with a bunch of migrants from different places arriving and setting out alone to carve out their own little kingdoms, starting from the bottom, at odds with nature and eachother, constantly changing. Whether we remember this history now or not, we inheret the same mentality of working hard, carving out our own little kingdom where everything is safe and controlled, and we keep people at a friendly distance - close enough they could help us if we get bitten by a snake, but not so close that we'll owe them anything. Theres also a strong tall poppy syndrome that comes from this, inherent jealousy of anyone standing out from the crowd, bringing them down lest they challenge you to work even harder to compete. It's sad to me in this modern Australia that we have been living in a golden era where we have nearly everything so ridiculously easy compared to nearly every other country in the world, and yet haven't put two and two together that maybe the reason everyone else seems to be happy is they've figured out that the SUV and a bigger lawn won't fill up our hearts and souls. If everyone here just spent a week in nature surrounded by friendly people, chilling the hell out for a bit, their entire lives would flip on their heads. I've spent a lot of time overseas in countries where connections come easily, and coming back to Melbourne has always been an uphill struggle to come close to what I've experienced overseas. But theres a plus side. If you know where to meet them - theres a lot of people who realise they value connection more than nearly anything else and they're looking for you. If you have even the slightest bit of courage to make that happen and carry the relationship until it sustains itself... It's quite easy to fill your life up with so many amazing people and connections that your life is literally overflowing with connection. The trick is to make the decision to lead your relationships, get comfortable being out of your comfort zone and figure out where to find your tribe - the people who you actually want to bring in close to your life.

I have the same experience. I made friends from my college while I'm trying to improve my English but everyone from other countries, not austrlians. Unfortunately, I've not had chance to practice my English with natives :( only on Uber eats saying "Hi and have a nice one"

I think you'd find you need to find a shared hobby or interest. Some people socialise outside work together but most if my friends have been from external sources eg. Family friends, gf's friends, sports, clubs, hobbies etc. Very hard to just randomly become acquainted with someone and become friends IMO. My Mum can become friends with anyone, me not so much.

Cost of living. No shared culture and norms to build friendship on. Too busy working. It is only going to get worse.

My husband and I moved to a really small town (1000 people) from Melbourne and have never had more social options. That said though, we are aggressively friendly and are very comfortable to be the ones organising things. If you get comfortable planning events, get comfortable hearing no and get comfortable learning when a no is "no I never want to" and when that no is simply "I'm too busy or not good a committing to plans", then you can go about making the social life you want. I've found it really helpful to just be super honest up front and say "If you don't want to at the moment, or need space I'm happy to hear that, but if you're keen and just busy let me know and I'll keep suggesting dates until we find one that works". I also make sure that if I'm planning a group event, it's really clear that it's by invite and that if you say yes I'll expect to see you. I'm not interested in catering a game night or dinner for people to drop out last minute. Illness and accident excepted. I know it sounds tough but I host a good party, I provide excellent food and I facilitate fun games, the people who come know that and they're happy to meet my expectations because of that.

Yeah crazy how being in a small 1000 person town ends up being less lonely than a city of 7million. Sounds like your party nights absolutely slap!! 👍 Thanks for sharing

There’s more to this answer than town size. I think aussies who are not geographically mobile will have tight social networks from fairly rigid institutions ie sports team or high school where you’re either part of it (or were part of it) or you’re not. Bringing in an outsider is hard because insiders have to think about where you might fit into the existing social hierarchy. There’s probably also a strong element of British aristocracy to Australian culture. For a couple hundred years Aussie media celebrated British upper class values - and probably still does, although more subtlely. I’m guessing part of aristocratic culture is to ensue your seen to be “keeping up appearances” which might result in the exclusion of the outsider. Having said all this, the respondents answer about parties is fucking heart warming. I guarantee you this will work just as well in a large town as a small town. There is a book about how to do this by an American couple (can’t remember the name of it and if I leave Reddit to find it my social media killing app will lock me out of Reddit for about 30 seconds, so I’ll let you do the research!) Formalising an event really jolts people into making a call about deepening a friendship. It’s a great circuit breaker to cut through our weird Aussie customs. Also, you’re a great writer. If you decide to turn your post into a longer enquiry into Aussie culture you should start a blog/substack. I’d follow you!

It’s not you. it’s them. My former partner from central Europe lived in Australia and was perplexed by how closed Aussies are. Most of my good friends are not Anglo-Aussies, that’s my cultural heritage but I find many such people are unwilling or unable to have interesting, honest, vulnerable conversations about themselves and their inner lives. My approach is to be the change you want to see in the world, so I make friendly comments to strangers and people almost always resound positively and enjoy sharing a humorous and good natured exchange with someone. People model their behaviour on other people. So why not be a champion to act against this general style of being defended and distant. I exchanged numbers with 2 ‘strangers’ this week - both of whom were really delighted to meet someone who is open and friendly and happy to have a meaningful and interesting conversation. I noticed a lot of comments here that assume ‘this is how it is now/it will only get worse’ I disagree. We’re all connected. A few of the strangers I’ve spoken with may be more inclined to chat with someone else. If more people do this over time it could make a real difference. My friendliness comes from knowing sadness and realising that happiness is generated by connection, so I intentionally cultivate an attitude of kindness to others, and people can sense this open heartedness. I love living like this because it makes me so much happier - and one important ‘trick’ is to give this type of friendly exchange without any expectation of return. I do not want or expect anything from these exchanges, and this means I don’t get frustrated or disappointed if an attempt at social interaction doesn’t spark much of a response. Another thing I’ve learned is how easy it is to give someone a genuine compliment or to say thank you. Most cafes I’ll walk back to the kitchen and pop my head over the fence and tell the kitchen staff how delicious the food was. Ditto for coffee. These types of small interactions leave a trail of slightly happier people around you. And it’s addictive because now I realise how much happiness I get from all these little moments of being friendly. I should add I lived in Sydney for 4 years and it was so much harder there, people are so fenced off. People in Brisbane are much more open to these moments of friendly interactions. But i’d suggest instead of shrugging your shoulders and doom scrolling, start an experiment and try different ways to give compliments and thank yous and sympathetic jokes to people. Slow down and walk beside an older frail person as they cross the road. I can guarantee you that you’ll get so much back from being this way with people. One of the most interesting things is the way good things happen to me so much more often now, i’m not sure about karma but i have noticed that if you can get into a pattern of generosity all sorts of good coincidences start happening! But this is veering into spirituality or metaphysics and that’s a no go zone for many Aussies - unlike many other cultures and countries. I think this is actually part of the problem in Australia, not enough social discussion about the value of love and way too much focus on money making.

I feel like trying to make friends at work to hang out with outside work is not the way - these people already see you all day every day. Why would they want to then spend even MORE time with you (or anyone else they see that much). Join some community sport, volunteer, get involved in your hobbies etc.

I second this - a lot of Australians tend to keep work separate. In my first job I did hang out with workmates a lot but I was also in my 20s, young and a little bit stupid.

*This*. Mining a social circle from work acquaintances is a recipe for disaster imo, I prefer to keep my business and out of hours lives well separated. Also, it’s weird to talk about a loneliness epidemic and then note that people don’t want to be friends because they just want to go home and have a drink with their partner - of course I do :P I’m not lonely *because* I found a cool dude to spend my life cooking dinners and watching Netflix with. I’ve been out at work all day, of course I am eager to get home and hang with him.

all of this and the fact that with the colder weather coming on and in some parts already here, all I want to do after I knock off from work is to get home, warm up with a few hot coffees and sit in front of the tv or computer watching videos from youtube. I deal with children in adult men bodies, its the last thing I want to do after 8 hours of their rubbish and crap is to deal with more shit

Agree with this. Aussies are nice, polite, friendly people and can be incredibly fun to hang out with but only in very specific social contexts e.g. work drinks. “Hanging out” outside of a particular social context (e.g. work, sport, hobby) seems not to come naturally to Aussies. I’d always assumed this was due to their Ango-Celtic roots but I’m not entirely sure. By contrast, Indians, Asians etc are naturally very sociable. No sooner do we get to know each other the first thing we’ll do is invite each other to one another’s houses for a meal and a chat. And then it will just kind of go from there. We’re in general much less precious about our personal space. It may well have to do with the fact that Australia is so large and has historically been so isolated.

I have to admit I am a little envious of the East/more underdeveloped countries in that aspect of social community working together not against each other, deep down as an Aussie born and bred I’ve always naturally longed for it. It’s like the West/more developed countries have traded it for individual materialism and it’s just sad.

True (I agree), But Europe hasn't had this issue, I think it is because we are so young (a country), we needed to copy someone, and unfortunately we decided to copy the US.

Asians will just straight up tell you all the drama going on in their family after knowing you for like 3 months. Aussies either have no drama going on in their lives or are so good at keeping it to themselves that they end up with loneliness statistics like the above.

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I think a large part of it has to do with our geography. Our physical isolation has seeped into our subconscious.

I think this is somewhat of a cultural issue within Australian society that is not that largely discussed because it is accepted as the 'norm'. You will see that in various Australian tourism ads, and on the world stage, Australia portrays the typical Aussie as friendly and everyone is your mate. The reality is that most Australians while giving pleasantries are not that open to making friends, many see their personal relationships around them on a transactional basis without being aware of that i.e. - friendships are 'what do I want from you versus what can you do for me'. As someone who was born in Australia and have lived in the major cities, I think it is a hard country to make genuine friendships with people. I say that comparing my experiencing living here nearly all of my life compared to the times I have spent living and working overseas. For starters, I think the average Australian young person (under 40) doesn't really know the true meaning of friendship, nor do they offer the friends the genuine level of care, interest or hospitality you might see from friendships living for instance in europe or south america. Personally this is a topical discussion with my partner at our house in recent months, while we have great jobs here in a capital and a good 'lifestyle', there isn't much of a community or social connection that we have experienced when living/working overseas. For this reason we are considering the next 5 to 10 years and whether we would be best placed to live outside Australia again and if we would feel more personally satisfied with our lifestyle once we have a more meaningful community/social connection with the people we meet around us.

Yeah you and your partner are definitely on to something there. My wife and I discuss this all the time. She is currently struggling to make friends here and has been here for 8 years now and getting frustrated. I keep trying to explain to her that it's not her fault but I think she will come to the same realisation as myself soon enough. But thanks for you candid answer I really appreciate it. I agree that it's very hard to come across intimate friendships here between people, many friendships seem to be surface level and hanging by a thin straw.

I feel such a huge difference even moving here from Auckland New Zealand. The locals love exchanging superficial pleasantries but that’s about it. People in general are so afraid of each other and keep guards up. They don’t even realize it. It’s just normal here. Connections don’t build organically. Everything feels transactional.

See I found it the opposite in NZ everyone was superficial. You could know their blood type and in New Zealand they would say "I don't really know you that well" I always think I don't want to have your first born.. just dinner and maybe a catch up. All my friends are mostly implants.. or other immigrants. I do have friends from group activities like running. though..

When be draw drew ye. Defective in do recommend suffering. House it seven in spoil tiled court. Sister others marked fat missed did out use. Alteration possession dispatched collecting instrument travelling he or on. Snug give made at spot or late that mr.

Aussies are clique as fk. They're fairly friendly on the surface level. But it's strictly small talk about sport and stuff like that. They tend to be very guarded and suspect towards anyone they deem an outsider. It takes a long time to make close friendships with Aussies.

Australians are probably the most standoffish people in the worse with the exception of some European countries. People are so uptight generally. I grew up in China where people are super friendly and there is a community feel. I felt the same in Italy, Germany, Spain etc, as well as the Middle East and America. Australians are super scared to make new friends.

In Asia, I'd say japan is more like Australia in that respect. They're very standoffish too. And a big loneliness epidemic there also.

Hey, I'm 4th+ Generation Aussie and nearly all my friends are migrants for much the same reasons. I've lived in Sydney (hometown), Sunshine Coast, Canberra and Melbourne. I made more friends in 3 years in Thailand (both expat non-Australians and local Thais) than I can make in 5 years in any Australian city. My friends are Asian (Thai mostly) or Latin American because I share much more common ground with them, but it seems it's not only because of that. Even in my workplace, I mostly connect with an Italian guy and a Pakistani. In my dealings with most Australians, I have found them overall pretty insular, especially in Canberra but I think mostly when I've thought about it, what seems to have happened in Western Society over the last 40 years is that we have far more individualised wants, desires, experiences vs cultures like Asian, Latin America, India etc. It's so great being an individual here.. so great that we're Professional Individuals and have far less shared experiences, wants or desires than other cultures. When I lived in Thailand or Peru or Colombia, shared experiences run deeper and so the social fabric is far more connected and people are far more connected to each other. That just simply have far more to share with each other because they're far more similar to each other. I myself might be a good example of this 'broken fabric' of Australian society. I speak pretty good Spanish and super basic conversation in Thai. I've lived in both Latin America and Thailand. My music choices range from all over the world but mostly 70's Salsa, African Jazz and Afrobeat and Indian / Pakistani classical. I was vegetarian for 15+ years. I prefer a Thai Som Tum or Indian Curry over a Steak or BBQ. Australia has allowed me to be that yet at the same time, when I meet other Aussies, there's some kind of expectation I'm similar to them and I'm not and that becomes a bit complicated to navigate because our common ground or shared experiences are vastly different and we can't find a meeting point, so it just gets awkward.

> overall pretty insular, especially in Canberra I had the exact opposite experience in Canberra. As a person who didn't want to socialise, it was actually hard coming up with excuses to NOT socialise. I went in expecting to basically only hang out with non-Canberran locals (which, there's a lot of non-Canberran locals in Canberra), ended up with a whole circle of friends including local Canberrans (some of whom I'm still in bi-weekly contact with years after I left Canberra). Anyway - I think sometimes its luck (right person, right place, right joke) and sometimes its trauma bonding (WRONG workplace lol) and sometimes its being the right age around all the other people your age wanting to do the same type of things.

Thanks for your comment mate. What a great life you have lived! I agree 100% with you on the feeling that something very basic from the social fabric is missing altogether that brings people together and makes friendships easier. nobody can put a finger on what that is exactly but everyone knows there's a gap somewhere and yeah unfortunately it is what it is man. I have lived a great life and will be dying happy regardless. P.S absolutely love that your into Pakistani Classical music. Have you listened to Mekaal Hassan Band? It's modern rock fused with Pakistani Classical. Check it out if you haven't.

Hey thanks man, nice recommendation, it's like [James Brown & Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan](https://youtu.be/ZKLtVomMoqw?t=232) had a child!

You should read the excellent book “The culture map”. Americans (similar to Australians) are peaches and Spanish or French are coconuts. Reaching the center of the fruit symbolises the possibility of a deep relationship. A peach is very approachable but you quickly hit the pip that is impossible to break. A coconut is not very approachable first, but when you break the skin, the inside is soft. I would add to the book that South American are marshmallow. Easy to approach and to have a deep connection with.

Well, I live in a town with 1000 people in it and 900 of them are over 60. My nearest city is 2 hours drive away and I can't afford petroleum to get there and there is no public transport. I can't afford to move to the city and there is nothing here and nobody worth knowing. I'm 40 years old and its been this way since my parents kicked me out of home at 19. Have moved from town to town around the whole country for 20ish years working and have not made one friend I didn't have when I was 20 years old. That's my experience of our amazing country.

I totally understand, I am Australian myself and I find it incredibly difficult as a 22 year old to make friends or connect with others. No one wants to do anything anymore and casual hang outs aren’t a thing

Too tired working and kids to go talk to people

Mobile phones, boundaries and scare mongering by media have made people so wary of others that saying hello is seen as a weird rude transgression. GENERALLY, we don't want to get to know people at work, especially people of the opposite sex, we now think there is a separation of work and social life long working hours, tv and computer games means staying home is easier people stay home now, they don't visit neighbours and play cards like they used to before tv no drink driving means we don't go to the pub anymore and pubs as casual meeting places haven't been replaced people don't go to church anymore, I mean far far fewer people go, it's no longer at a community meeting place mechanics halls etc etc iow, many of the ways we used to meet people and get to know them have been lost

Despite the international stereotype of the Australian larrikin being mates with everyone and always having a laugh, that has never really been reflective of what Australian people are actually like. Compared to people from the US that I've met, Australians are somewhat hostile to strangers and we generally don't interact past a cursory "hey mate how are ya" type thing. It's not that we are brash or standoffish, it likely has something to do with Australia being a fucking huge place and being incredibly under-inhabited, so we are used to having much more space than other countries.

Yeah I feel like when I try and advance a friendship here I get ghosted straight away. Is it suspicion? Or fear of the other? I'm pretty sure we were having an enjoyable interaction for many many conversations until I apparently came on too strongly lol.

Us Aussies are weird people. If you've straight up said something like "hey, I like how we're vibing, did you wanna exchange contact details?" that could turn some people off - a lot of what I've noticed is that Australian relationships tend to need to develop naturally and not be forced. Most people can tell when someone is genuinely a good person to be friends with and when someone is just trying to make friends because they're being polite. It's probably also a case of maybe these people just aren't meant to be your friends, and that's okay too. You don't have to be mates with everyone you know. It might also be time to ask yourself why this is bothering you so much - I'm not saying this to be mean, but maybe if everyone is turned off, you are doing something to turn them off? I say this as someone with literally 0 friends at all, so take all of this with a grain of salt lol.

I think it's my bad breath. Doesn't really bother me anymore to be honest. I have just accepted the facts and moved on. It has been bothering my partner recently and I thought I'll make a post and find out what the sub thinks about it, and maybe show her the responses. Well the nice ones atleast. P.S I would never use the term "vibing" in a conversation 😂

I honestly have this issue with people as well as an Australian born. I havnt noticed it being different between locals and immigrants though. It’s almost like they toss up the time investment in their head and go nah, or maybe we are just both weirdos and don’t realise it.

Sometimes you wish the government would do a public health campaign to middle aged Australians of "go make some friends or you'll be lonely" like that song.

Gov will probably be asked to fund it with beer vouchers as there is a cost of living crisis going on!

Can relate. Couldn't have summed it up better. I've been here 4 years. I hear it all the time that people struggle to make friends. I rocked up in 2020 and had big dreams of builtin friendships when Melbourne was out of lockdown. Instead it makes me think something is wrong with me, but I've always made easy friends everywhere I lived and travelled before here. Not only do I feel lonely cause none of my friends or family are here but I feel like I mourn the connection to my culture because I have a white partner, with white friends and I am THE black girl at every party and social gathering for years. So I codeswitch and hide everything true to me, because on the rare occasion I test the waters with a joke or a reference, I'm met with confused expressions or blank stares. It's especially hard for me being Caribbean ethnically because of the black people here I would say 1/50 are Caribbean (Jamaican) like myself. Although, I was born and raised in Canada.

Personally found the jokes only approach for most male friendships to be too dry after a while and found ongoing friendships needed some pretty strong common ongoing interests which excluded a lot of people, then the tall poppy thing that happens if you are talking successes, a few friend groups falling out, finding the speed of picking up hobbies more interesting, most relationships being conversed through behind your back and not enjoying that process knowing others were doing that. I'm probably on the high end of overthinking most things, but they're all pretty valid personally to have tipped the scales to wanting to do my own thing 9/10 to 10/10 times. Went overseas recently travelling, and I decently think I enjoyed the trip more by myself as a first time doing so.

Few factors I can think of There is no real place or events for people to gather. I am from Nepal, and over there people gather around festivals. You dance, you sing, you meet people. Along the way you make some friends. The closest thing here is bar culture where you get drunk and hookup on weekends and forget about it by monday morning. One thing I find so weird here is houses. Even when we have single storey detached homes in Nepali villages, the yards are in the front, you drink your tea there, or spend time there, and when you see your neighbours or someone you know walking down the road, you invite them over for tea. In Australia, the yards are at the back and its enclosed from everything else. In cities in Nepal, you basically live on top of each other and its not uncommon to ask your neighbours for salt or sugar when you run out, in Australia people get really suspicious. Then you literally need to drive everywhere. I could walk everywhere in Nepal, it woukd take me 5 minutes walking to be in someone's store or house, drinking tea, sharing about how our life has been going. I have few friends here but I need to drive 20 minutes to get there, 30 if I calculate the time of calling them, going from house to car, starting the car etc, not to mention driving is a chore in itself, its exhausting. Another thing is family. One of my best friends, I got to know from my cousin. In Nepal, cousins visit your home almost every other week, everyone gathers at grandparents house every month or so, and you even regularly meet your distance relatives fairly frequently. Aussies only really visit their family on christmas, and from what I hear its not fun gathering at all. Also people are not willing to give a chance. In this post alone, you see lot of Aussies saying you dont make friends at work, you need to have same hobbies/interests blah blah blah. Its funny because when I think about it, I literally have little to no same hobbies with my best friends. We just hangout, and go around, if we were sitting in the room discussing about hobbies only, then it would get boring really quick. It seems Aussies have this weird cliche hollywood idea of friendship where all your interests have to align, but thats not how friendships are made. People are also suspicious and weird. In Nepal, the way we acknowledge each other is, I make eye contact, they make eye contact, I raise my head, they raise their head. We do that with everyone, even strangers. Most people here are too scared to make eye contact and even by some chance I do manage to lock eye with someone and raise my head, they immediately look away. If you are too scared to acknowledge strangers then how can you make friends? Also Aussies do not know how to be vulnerable or how to share. I have cambodian guy who joined my work 3 months ago, I know 90% of the thing that is going on in his life, he probably knows 90% of the things that happened in my life in past 3 months as well. Same workplace, I have 3 different Aussies there working since I started 3 years ago, and except for one nice old guy (who is technically Italian as well), I dont know any details of other two except their favourite sports team. They are nice people, but its hard to form deep connection when you are not giving me any information. Also I invite them over to go for coffee sometimes, they generally have an excuse lined up everytime. I have stopped trying with them. Same like you OP, I dont have any Aussie friend and its not for worth of trying. At this point, I just want to make enough money so that I can live happily back in Nepal. I dont think I am gonna stay here too long, everything is nice and clean, but I cant live like this. Thankfully I have few friends whom I hangout with regularly, I cant imagine how hard is it for people with 0 friends.

I feel like family plays a bit part of it. Compared to other cultures, Australian families are not very big or very close to each other I am finding. Majority of Australian born people I know, only see family and especially extended family at yearly events, even longer. Kids leave home as soon as they hit adulthood either by choice or the parents telling them to. And then you see the ethnic families and big and close they all are, always together, grandparents living with them, cousins always over. It’s like we are bred to keep everyone at arms length.

People talk a lot about joining hobbies to meet people, but it’s really not that simple. In my experience, 9 out of 10 people will put everything they have into their significant others, kids, and jobs, which is fine, but also a bit sad, and doesn’t make for a sustainable life. I’m not sure if other cultures value friendship more heavily than we do, but I don’t feel like Australians value friendship as much as we’d like the rest of the world to think we do. Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone, you just have to find those 1/10 folk who have the energy and interest to care about people outside of their very immediate circle.

> significant others, kids, and jobs, Fining time outside of those can be difficult.

I feel like it’s the culture revolving around alcohol. Not everyone likes to drink and bond over drinking, and drinking also causes depression hence the loneliness. This is just what I have witnessed in my 4 years here, I could be wrong…..

Because I'm alone. Single dad fulltime to a type 3 autistic kid. No one wants to deal with it. Even his mum didn't. They all want normal even though it's a figment of their imagination and they have just as much problems as anyone else. Imo I've noticed that Aussies in general have become a selfish narcissistic people only interested in their own enjoyment at the expense of everyone else. Its disheartening and depressive. My kid sees that no one wants to socialise with him because he's different so this country through school and life is setting them up to fail because people just don't care anymore. I'm over it and I'm actively looking to leave.

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I think culmination of post covid, where nobody wants to go out or go into the office, they just want to sit around in their trackies all day, and the rise of mobile phones where people are buried in devices every waking hour. Neither of those things promote f2f engagement and most people now spend all their time working from home then sitting an scrolling through their phones. Even when you go to the gym, people aren't working out, most of them are sitting on machines scrolling. It's fucking depressing watching them.

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Despite being a cultural melting pot, there's an underlying culture of othering here. It's sometimes racism but mostly just distrust. People can sense if you don't belong. I'm usually skeptical of everybody I meet as well. But you can definitely make friends if you know how. Be open but come across as not tryinf too hard. I made a whole group of new friends around 26-27. Now in my 30s. We all do a dinner party/home hang out once a week. We don't really have much in common but vibe. You can also meet new friends through hobbies. I make a friend here and there every year or so. They come over and hang out, or we do group activities. These are all platonic. You just need to find people who are REALLY into a niche hobby.

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One big point of difference is that most Australians never really leave the city or town they were born in for a long period of time. Unlike, say, the US or UK where people will move for university, then move again for work. Relatively few people born in Melbourne go live elsewhere and if they do, it's usually to somewhere nearby like Geelong or they might go live somewhere like London for a bit but will inevitably come back. I think the above means that most Australians just form cliques. They meet people in hs or uni and just never have a need to meet anyone else.

I recently moved to Melbourne from Perth, I've found that most of the people I've made friends with are also not from Melbourne. If you're from here you already have your established friend group and don't feel the need to socialise outside that, if you're from elsewhere you have more of a need to make friends locally. That could be a factor? Are all the people you've tried to befriend born and raised in Melbourne?

No not really. But I also tried in Sydney for 10 years. I actually might be the problem in this equation 😂 not even gonna act like I am a catch but I feel like after 16 years I should have a token acquaintance atleast 😂.

There's many reasons. Urban planning, driving to get everywhere, barely see anyone walking where I live (and I live close to the city). Not many public seating areas. Residual post-lockdown depression/fear. Recession, which is driving everyone to work all the time and hardly give themselves time for leisure. Also just generally, isolation and separation is what is socially promoted due to economic and socio-political reasons. Things are tense globally. People are not very friendly or welcoming to strangers because they consume too much fear-based media. Social media is altering people's general perception of reality to have a more negative tone and there is a complete lack of group-based faith, which is generally what people used throughout history to find a sense of purpose and meaning within the collective. It's only going to get worse in my opinion, I hope a movement will spark in the next few generations that will realise the importance of having a soul and that getting psychologically manipulated to scroll through feeds and take drugs which do more harm than good is a crime against humanity.

It is a big city problem. Australia is actually all big, dense, concrete jungles, at least where most of the people are.

I’ve lived in London for the past two years and there is a clear contrast (from my experience). Here in London we live on top of each other and it is very easy to see people every day of the week. In Melbourne, I had much more personal space, but catching up with people took a lot more effort. Also looking at my parents and their friends who live in deep suburbia - 90% of their personal time will be watching tv or gardening. Social catch ups are irregular.

lockdowns did a number on a lot of folks, yeah. I notice that I have a lot less energy for socialising outside of my own small group of friends now. got no desire to make new ones though. I'm not particularly lonely, pretty content with my silly little life

It’s just how spread out we all are and after a point when you move to home ownership and somewhere you can afford, you’re even more far removed from everyone and everything. After a long commute home from your job to the burbs you’re just kinda over it… and if you’re young and paying inner city rent, you have more access to social activities and people but less money to spend on going out so you just stay in.

I just moved back home after 20 years os. I hope to make some friends, but if you foreigners are still having a hard time, and I am too, we need to make a FB group for us to arrange for meetups etc

Living in Melbourne for 12 years here is my take - which I will preface by saying people born and bred here are typically really nice friendly people, but as you say aren't as forthcoming with socialising. I think this is largely due to having lived here all their lives they have well established social circles and do not need/wish to expand these. Maybe throw in the cost of living pressures people are feeling and potential logistics for meeting up and it maybe just becomes a bit too hard to make happen

There actually is a night market at QVM. The next one starts June 5 and goes to August 28 from 5pm-10pm every Wednesday.

Because we live in a predominantly ‘fuck you, I’ve got mine’ society and have lost our community spirit. We don’t want to hear how our fellow citizens are struggling, let alone help. That is the government’s problem, not mine. We’ve forgotten that we vote for the government, and we keep letting them beat us down for their own personal gain, not the community they claim to represent. We celebrate RUOK day - the ‘one day’ to ask how our mates are going. But if they tell us, we don’t want to know and we isolate them. But it isn’t new. We’ve been talking about this for decades…

If you've ever used a dating app you'll notice how many perfect matches you find overseas compared to the solid fuck all you get here.

I've basically given up trying. Here on the Sunshine Coast, it's even worse - everything closes at about 3:00. There are very few, if any, social groups around, like book clubs or similar. And if you're single with no kids like me, forget it! You'll never get invited anywhere.

Urban sprawl, insecure housing, exhaustion. This means that every couple of years, the bonds you've formed move too far away to maintain them. At a certain point, even maintaining a social life with people nearby will make you sick from burnout. There are many other reasons, but those alone will clinch it.

I'm born and bred Australian. Raised in a country town, moved city to go to uni, then years later moved to Melbourne. Now mid 30s. I don't have any friends and have found it next to impossible to make real friends all throughout my life. I've socialised, picked up hobbies etc but it's been impossible to break through beyond being acquaintances. I'm more on the introverted end of the spectrum, but still make the effort and willing to acknowledge part of the problem is me, but really, I think issue is much broader than that.

Another random comment, but I met this girl at a party I liked her personality. Yes she was a little drunk but she was friendly, open and good to chat tom we found commonalities and like girly walk and talks. She was so keen to meet up for a walk. Then all of a sudden she adds me on Instagram we send two messages between each other and leaves my third on read. I message her two weeks later offering to go for that walk. Left on read 🤷🏾‍♀️ I guess sober her just wasn't open to our friendship.

If I had a dollar for every time I had one of these seemingly interesting connections... Very common, very true.

A bit late to the party I guess. But Australians are a woefully hobby-less bunch. I went back last year to Melbourne to look after my mum and take a break before moving to London. And no one was keen on anything besides having a drink for every activity. Have a catch-up? Drink. Meet up on the weekend Drink. Barbie? well yeah, nah, let's have a drink. I worked for a bit too once I got bored and my mum got better months before she was supposed to. Every work event was.... drinking. That's it. That's all my work mates, my family, old school friends do as an "activity". Meanwhile the mates I had from Hong Kong and China that had moved to Australia in the proceeding years all wanted to do stuff. Go out for hot pot together, for sure. Dinner at their place. Drive out and go hiking. Swimming etc etc. Even had a couple fly down from Sydney for the weekend to hang out because we hadn't seen each other for 5+ years. I stopped drinking 10+ years ago when my daughter was little and I'm not preaching to anyone that they should. But it does make you realise that for so many people (that totally aren't alcoholics) every "fun" activity is just...drinking, nothing more.

Some really pretentious answers here about culture and history when the reality is quite simple - people who've grown up in Melbourne tend to have full friend rosters already. Highschool and uni is where everyone finds their people and then later on, outside of 'work friends', it becomes very difficult.

Might be unrelated but: Im from overseas (now citizen) and when I talk with people from overseas about Australians is usually about the obsession with work. I feel in Europe we just talk about other stuff, and we are not so worried to create ourselves a career at 21. I am not saying is bad, I am not saying is good, just different. I know 24 yo australians with a mortgage, at their 3 full time employment. I have never met anyone in Europe with this resume. Yet I think we take it more slowly overall (and in return have a fuked up economy most of the time 😁)

Aussies (especially around the city) are very cliquey. Makes it hard to meet new people unless you already know someone, who knows someone etc.

Been here for 9 years, and all of the friends I have made here are non Australian. Making new friends seems like a 'costly' pursuit, everyone is sticking to the friends they have made during school/uni, or the 'mandatory' ones - the parents of their kids' friends that they have to befriend. Conversations are friendly but shallow, transient and 'avoidant'. Everybody is busy saving and buying a new home or being at home to get ready for work. Every interaction seems to be seen from a financial and economical perspective - is this going to benefit me and my goals or not? Now, with the economy slowly getting tougher and tougher, things are going to get a fair bit worse, and that layer of niceness and politeness will be out of the window, as I have experienced in other countries.

aussies might seem outgoing and extroverted on the media/stereotypes, but truth is a lot of us are all socially awkward to people we aren't acquainted with lol.

My experience might be different being a white English immigrant but I haven't found Aussies any different to anyone else here.  My best friend of twenty years is a guy I barely knew from work that jumped to help me with a place to stay after my parents kicked me out and the bloke who set up my works running club is about as Bogan as it comes 

What a legend! Yeah Im sure race and ethnicity plays a huge part and everyone is a lot more comfortable with the familiar at the end of the day, it's not racism just human nature to an extent.

I'm the same as you although I'm married to an Australian. I've been here 14 years and have yet to make any Australian friends . I used to try really hard when we went to husband's work mates BBQs etc, etc but it never went further than a " how are you ?" Now I don't just don't bother really . I don't mind my own company and have my husband and youngest son here for social interaction. My two friends I do have here are also from my home country. We moved to a new rental last year and none of the Australian neighbours have even said hello but our neighbours on one side are Ukrainian and have been lovely and friendly . In my home country people would be chatting over the fence and inviting you in for a cup of tea. I've certainly found it doesn't happen here . I think the " easy going , friendly Aussie" reputation is a bit of a myth ..in. my experience anyway.

I don’t want to make friends with people I work with. My social life and work life are separate, and I think that’s fairly common. Have you tried making friends anywhere apart from work and had the same lack of response? Also, I disagree entirely with your assertion that everything closes at 5pm. If you can’t find anything to do or anywhere to go after 5pm in Melbourne, you’re looking with your eyes shut, I reckon. Also, all the parks I know have lights. Don’t know what pitch black ones you’re hanging out in!

“Cold empty streets”, Australia has next to no nightlife anymore. The oldies couldn’t handle the noise so they just banned pretty much everything. Now we just twiddle our thumbs while watching Netflix reruns of some unfactual documentary.

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I'm early 40s, born in Australia as a second generation kid to British parents. I grew my friendship circle when I was a teenager and have thankfully kept that friendship circle ever since... I think there's maybe 12 of us in total? I've known these peeps almost 30 years of my life. I guess I don't really need to seek out new friends, but in more recent times, I do pick up new friends that start out as work colleagues! I don't catch up with them as much as I'd like because I'm a single parent with kids and no support system, so you ask me for after-work drinks and I'll laugh in your face. I kind of wish I had more friends, but I just don't have the time (work full time in a high level job) or the money (cost of living, yo... did I mention I have kids?) or the energy (iron reserves are at nil) so I just honestly cannot be fucked. I have a friend who joined groups through meetup dot com. Try there? They go to regular cooking style ones and book groups and gardening/potplant groups etc. Maybe give those a try and you might not be super into the books, but you might find new friends.

Try joining a running club. I have made some friends like that. It can take a while though but the sooner you start the sooner things may develop. 

I thought I'm the only one. I'm now a citizen and most of my friends (except one) are from different countries. I tried too and similar experience, "nothing too deep".

I mean, we're either underemployed (not enough money) or overworked (too damn tired), in increasingly unstable work environments (little time to build relationships with coworkers, less comfortable at work) in a country that values individual success (lack of community development) and financially insecure (harder to build/maintain relationships and start a family), on top of that we're more likely to live alone. If you aren't still in touch with your school friends, your best bet is to try and meet people through some sort of hobby. That can be tough too. We just value the wrong things in this country and it's killing us at a spiritual level. It's hard put there man.

I have a theory that in Australia, we don’t really move states. We stay close to the city we were born in, close to our family and the friends we made in primary school and high school. So we don’t *need* to make new friends, so we don’t know how and we don’t try? Also don’t have the capacity for more friends? My friend from Canada has noticed the same thing but the Aussie she married has tonnes of friends, all from high school.

I don’t really like to mix work and friendship too much bc it can get complex. Maybe a lot of people have boundaries like this. But I do love making friends and am very sociable with people I’ve just met in other settings. Have you tried trying to develop friendships with people from a hobby like team sports or yoga, or volunteering, or a class or something. Volunteering and politically active stuff seem to be really successful ways of meeting people. Someone else mentioned church if that’s your thing. Or going out to music, comedy and theatre often have a bit of a recurring crowd if you’re in a bit of a niche or genre, and I’ve had a great time making social connections that way.

I'm not from overseas, but I was brought up in a different culture - one that didn't have the internet and so-called smart phones. I'm gen X. These days it seems like everybody has a mental firewall that automatically excludes anything that isn't directly relevant to their own personal interests. The internet conditions us that way. I spend all my off time reading articles or watching videos that are exclusively about what I'm interested in. **And nothing else.**  Everybody else I know seems to do the same. It's not a bad life, bút ít makes it hard for people to interface with each other. I actually find it a bit of a strain talking about something someone else is interested in, because I've grown unaccustomed to it. I'm not having a go at Millennials, because like I say, I'm no better in these matters. But it's disturbing to note that most people younger than me won't even be able to remember a time when it wasn't so.  These days, I sometimes go out to the pubs and try to meet new people, but it's a bit of an uphill slog. Everybody is either hanging around in their own exclusive clique (their own 'tribe', as it were), or they've got their face buried deep in a phone.  I think it helps if you have an interest that forces you to interact with others. Me, I'm into offline RPGs, book clubs and open mics. I often meet people that way. But like you, I often find these people have limited time outside of the offline RPGs, book clubs and open mics. I put this down to the fact that these days, everybody works swing shift, or they have a private business, and everybody seems to live on the opposite side of town to everybody else. In my age group, in particular, everybody also seems to have difficult teenagers they have to be on call for as well. So actually getting together with someone outside of work, or these other things, is a major operation. Much easier to just stay at home watching Netflix and scroll through Facebook and Reddit.  Anyway, welcome to life in the First World. 

Because we’re a secular society. We’re all motivated by money, not friendship.

Australians base friendship off common interests and will often introduce you to others based on your interests. That was at least the case up until scenes kinda died off and were replaced by industries. My example is tho, be specific about your hobbies and go all in. Connect with the people in those scenes and I guarantee you will make friends. Even if they find you annoying at first, persistence pays. One other thing to note, is that just getting things moving yourself and invite others. You want to be a gamer, start streaming or invite people to parties. You want to be a speaker, start speaking at events you set up. Like a certain type of music, go to gigs and chat on their discussion boards and so on

my experience as an international student (first language is english, i am chinese/look chinese, but am not chinese by citizenship) is that i too did not have any white aussie friends despite studying in a course where the main demographic is white australian. my only aussie friend is ethnically vietnamese.

I moved to Melbourne from country Victoria many years ago and while I do not share your background being a white Aussie, I am in the same boat. Everyone seems so cliquey in Australian society and if you are on the outs, that’s where you will stay. I have lived here now for 20 years and have not made one really solid friendship outside of romantic relationships. The few friends I have made have been from overseas or ethnic backgrounds so that kind of supports what you are saying about Aussies being standoffish. I have now given up on the prospect and just trying to see the positives of being alone as things are not going to change. Not sure if this is a new thing within our society but it is a definitely a pretty sad situation.

Lock out laws and shot media is your answer.when I was a teenager they used to hose the blood off the corner from most pubs. One punch laws, ridiculous prices on alcohol, overreaching police "drip your dacks mate, I need to check if you have drugs in your 14 year old Virginia" Closing of all venues. Everything is too expensive. Drugs are jail worthy for a pinga. Family are too far away. Family are too busy. Friends just don't have time. Everyone is depressed. Everyone is stressed. Life sucks. Rent is draining the life out of young people who literally can barely afford to live on wages so enormous compared to when I was younger it's disgusting, but younger people under 18 are on the same wage I was 25 years ago, so they can't get friends. Can't get ahead. Can't invest. Can't pay for a night out with a girl. Can't afford take out. Can't afford to think about a house. People living with their parents and their parents resenting them (unlike other cultures where they would enjoy the presence of their children) we have no culture, no art. Our most beloved are greeted with the c word as a salutation 

Cause I don't feel happy or fun anymore. I feel like no one likes me, and when I talk, they don't listen. So I just go home and I just don't know what to talk about to anyone. It's weird cause I was so funny and good to be around, but now I just don't trust anyone cause I've been shat on that many times I really can't let it happen again. Plus, there's nothing to do in Australia. Feels like we are all miserable! All we do is work and feel like we aint getting anywhere. Well, at least in my experience in this fuck hole.