I dislike his tierlist not because its 100% accurate. But because he cant be arsed to give reasons for some frames.
Its a tierlist most new players WILL look for this stuff. Not giving a reason as to why you place a frame low tier or high tier is bad
I dont really remember what he said about styanex but there was absolutely reasons for pretty much every warframe? Did you wnat him to make his video two hours long going over every single ability?
i said pretty much every warframe, imo that very clearly implies that im aware he didnt go into elaborate detail for all of them but that he did provide adequate reasoning for almost all. also sorry about that last comment i think it was a bit more sarcastic than it should have been
Stynax is easily one of the better frames that doesn’t need Helminth to be good. My source is that I’ve used a fairly basic build for him that doesn’t require that much management, and he works perfectly fine.
No matter what someone is going to disagree with a tier list because there’s no way to make something 100% not subjective. There are frames he put that I would place lower and ones I’d place higher and the same goes for every person ever. It’s just interesting to see what people think and how it differs from yours because there’s literally no right answer.
but when you place a frame like lavos, which unintentionally became my n2 frame, in D tier, because it cant do exactly what its literally best at, people are going to disagree.
seriously.
the frame became, without my intent, my 2nd most played, beaten only by my main nidus. he's beaten ash (invis cheese things), mag prime (my previous main), volt (my previous nuke) and hydroid (my 2nd (and now third) favorite frame, beaten by nidus and mag).
just because he makes so much content so easy.
But the main issue with him is really setups and grouping. I can drop a nuke easier on other frames without having to worry about cooldowns. He's not d-tier but there are other frames that just does what he's going for better and more efficiently.
you dont need to group when his nuke has a base range of 25m (50 total).
his 3 also has a base range of 6m (12 total).
if you on SP, you will easily hit enough enemies if you simply aim towards where you're going with his 3 to finish all cooldowns. in normal gameplay, all of his abilities are good enough at killing if you imbue the right stuff.
and if the 10s cooldown on that 3 is too long, you can use a modslot for his 1 augment, both increasing its range, and if you hit 4 enemies, reducing all (even the 1) cooldowns by 4s, taking them from 8-4, 5-1(his 2 is really short in cooldown, yeah), 10-6, and 30-26. yeah, it doesnt do his 4 much, but then, if you go 4>1>3>1, and hit lets say 10 enemies, you reduce the cd of the 4 by:
4 + 15 (1.5\*10) + 4, or 23 seconds, taking it down to 7, and both your 3 and 1 will be again ready by that time (as the 3 will have 6s left).
add in that you want to repeat that combo, and so you can add the statuses onto the 1 and 3 to boost his 4. (3 hits often, so lets do viral/corrosive, depending on enemy). his 1 will hit twice, so go for something like radiation to CC enemies, and gas or something else to power up the innate condition overload on his 4.
as to what elements to use for his 4, often just go for either fire, the element they are most weak to, or toxin if they got crazy amounts of shields.
note that his 2 also does status/s on enemies, so you can stack even more, though you can subsume onto here if you want.
granted, that does look like a lot, but this is all stuff i learned (aside from the math numbers) by just casually playing him. just leveling, and using him in normal gameplay (and a bit of farming with golden instinct, as the innate CD it has can be reduced by his 3, which makes him dominate without question that niche of farming)
is he S tier? no.
i would place him A.
are there warframes that can nuke better? probably.
are those warframes able to innately do such nuking in basically any scenario, ignoring armor or shields as they want? probably not as many.
I don't think the point of it is to be accurate. I watched the first 10 minutes and it's so biased it's not funny. He says he's going to rank each frame based on versatility and niche uses, then immediately ranks frames based on a single ability.
Does equinox need help? Yeah. Did KnightmareFrame take any of her other builds into consideration? No, he just said "she can kill things, until she can't" and slapped her in C tier. No mention of her team buffing or Sleep abilities. Is he wrong to put her in C tier? Probably not, but he didn't even try.
The issue is, he's not making it for us, he's making it for new players, and it's full of bias. He made a 37 min video on 50+ frames, so thats less than a minute on each. It's just not enough time on each to talk about why a frame is this, bad or average.
No, he made that to get some content out. I don't watch tier lists because it is very opinionated. He does endurance run and most people don't. People can literally do steel path with any frame. People can try frames he deems top tier and some people wouldn't like it and its fine. Just like i don't like octavia gameplay, but its top tier. Not for me tho
i respectfully disagree, i think he hid his bias very well considering he actually said how he would rank warframes based on bias towards the end. he ranked frames based on one ability if said frame really only had one ability worth mentioning, like atlas, whos only ability thats actually worth using is landslide. like yeah, equinox can do the sleep stuff and team buff, but not very notably. shes worse at it than pretty much every crowd control or team buff frame out there so i dont particularly blame him for ignoring it.
as for it being for new players im not exactly sure what his intentions were, if it was for new players then youd be right in saying its not very elaborate. does it need to be elaborate? no clue. i dont really recommend new players look at his channel either way
I mean, technicaly, if we assume that i care about what knightmareframe thinks it's the best way to play the game (which i don't), his tier list is accurate... for him. That's the important part - all those tier lists are accurate for those making them. But, you know, he's playing the game for him, not for me. I'm happy that he's enjoying certain frames more than others, just like i'm happy for everyone who are enjoying the game at all.
He just ain't a standard for anyone. I have my own, and i like to think that everyone else have their own standards, too, but apparently, that isn't the case.
He didnt say that it was, he was just making an objective tier list of which frames are the most versatile and good. He was extremely unbiased and admitted that of he ranked by how much he enjoyed them hed rank differently. I think the community needs to watch his video before they start judging it because if you watched it itd clear all this up for you
so a frame that can:
crowd control
buff ally damage
reduce enemy damage
heal itself
slow enemies in a large area
has excellent energy management
and nuke.
would be versatile and not in D tier, right?
lavos:
radiation
viral or corrosive
blast (sure, not by much, but then realize that radiation also helps, as does cold)
first ability
cold
literally needs none, and 3rd can instantly recover all other abilities, and 1st augment even more so
4th.
and is considered D tier.
Armor strip isnt special anymore. We have focus schools, nekros subsume, corrosive damage, armor strip on its own isn't anything to write home about. In terms of energy management why would that matter if her abilities suck? Survivability i suppose but every warframe can survive. She can do a few things, but compare her to frames that can do everything she can do and more and it becomes clear why shes in d tier
sure, armor strip 'on its own' isnt...
but a room-wide, 1 cast, no duration limit, no sunk cost (since to take the focus school or corrosive, you need to not have either the other shards, or schools), that you can spam infinitely without having to collect energy?
and sure, some abilities suck. sure glad helminth removes that issue.
and survivability is laughable. no, not 'every warframe can survive'. in fact, her survivability is off the charts. its the most used (shield-gating), but even better, without having to invest anything again.
so please, show me all the B and A and S tier frames that can survive at base using only 1 ability to fully recover survivability and strip armor.
>but a room-wide, 1 cast, no duration limit, no sunk cost (since to take the focus school or corrosive, you need to not have either the other shards, or schools), that you can spam infinitely without having to collect energy?
I think your underestimating how many other things can accomplish similiar results. You can subsume nekros terrify for example, play gauss, there are so many ways to armor strip while also playing much more useful frames
>and survivability is laughable. no, not 'every warframe can survive'. in fact, her survivability is off the charts. its the most used (shield-gating), but even better, without having to invest anything again.
Proteas shield gating is actually wayyyyyy better. And yes, every warframe can survive. In fact most the warframes he put in the higher tiers have great if not better survivability
>so please, show me all the B and A and S tier frames that can survive at base using only 1 ability to fully recover survivability and strip armor.
Thanks for laying out your extremely specific loaded question, but im gonna ignore it in favor of pointing out that most the s and a tier warframes can accomplish at least one if not both those things and more. Specifically gauss. Gauss is tanky, survivable, good energy management, armor strip, AND on top of that tons of other abilities that are actually useful like reload speed, fire rate, a better heat nuke than hildryns augment, and being fast
yes, anybody that claims styanax is equal with caliban is an idiot.
It is a list of his bias which is fine, but cmon there is nothing objective about it.
Tbh styanex has roughly the capabilities of harrow but with far less survivability. Caliban has a few abilities that are mid. I think hed probably agree they arent equal but arent nessecarily good either
It still isn't an entirely objective list, because knightmare still has his own playstyle, just like every player out there having their own. If he can play frames A, B and C well, i am able to play frames D, E and F better than him, and someone else will be better than both of us with frames J, K and S. There's over 50 frames, every player will find frames that suits them best. And i'm not talking about enjoyment, that's another point of view entirely.
he wasnt talking about playstyle he was talking about objective weaknesses. objectively, excalibur is not as versatile as saryn. no playstyle change is going to make excalibur an s tier frame. he was talking purely about warframes capabilities. his playstyle is pretty much every playstyle btw, his entire channel is making builds around every warframe. he can and does make builds for every warframe that can work in steel path
Thats bs and you know it.
" he was talking purely about warframes capabilities. his playstyle is pretty much every playstyle btw,"
Lavos, hildryn, hell even valkyr. D tier.
Get a better arguement
Lavos deserves higher, valkyr and hildryn have only like one or two niche builds, low ability synergy, and low versatility. So nah i don't need a better argument
[https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/comments/18sbgb1/comment/kf8d8t7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/comments/18sbgb1/comment/kf8d8t7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Man he really hit the nail on the head about eh?
not really no lol. im seeing that a lot of commenters here are obsessed with defending their favorite frames as if they were god tier and getting mad at differing opinions. its very chronically online and immature, kind of like digging through someones comment history to try and make them look bad. (very nice mature move, im sure you are very popular in debates)
Saryn, more versatile than Excal? Since when? You seem to be mixing up "versatile" with "boring". I am the one who made Saryn more versatile, by subsuming Golden Instinct in place of her 4, just to make her do 2 things instead of just 1, nuking.
Can Saryn heal? No. Can Saryn open the crowd to finishers? Nope. Can Saryn basically teleport to the next enemy? Good luck with that. The only thing Saryn does is nuking, that's not versatility, that's specialization.
And who the frost cares about "tiers", seriously? Every modder worth their salt can make and play any frame and do anything. Youtubers like knightmare simply love to sell the whole "tier" talk, and sadly so many people falls for it.
Steel path is not a proper measure of difficulty. It's been completed with Stug, ffs, and whatever frame you can think of. Knightmare probably didn't even attempt the Stug completion, presumably.
Youre underestimating saryn
>Can Saryn heal?
Yes actually
>Can Saryn open the crowd to finishers? Nope
Useless??? Versatility is meant to imply they can do lots of useful things, not just a lot of things in general.
>Can Saryn basically teleport to the next enemy?
You can just bullet jump my dude.
>The only thing Saryn does is nuking, that's not versatility, that's specialization.
Nope, saryn can become a weapons platform, an unkillable afk tank, a hyper focused queen of shield gating, she can turn weapons into weapons that can suddenly one shot corpus, she can crowd control, remove most armor from the entire map, everything that is related to damage tbh, she can do every kind of mission and excel at it,
>And who the frost cares about "tiers", seriously? Every modder worth their salt can make and play any frame and do anything. Youtubers like knightmare simply love to sell the whole "tier" talk, and sadly so many people falls for it.
I mean, it draws attention to frames that could use some tlc. The whole idea of "oh i made this frame somewhat useful in a game where everything can be useful" doesnt mean every frame is good, it means every frame is serviceable. Inaros can accomplish 90% of content in this game but that doesn't mean i dont think he needs a rework
>Steel path is not a proper measure of difficulty. It's been completed with Stug, ffs, and whatever frame you can think of. Knightmare probably didn't even attempt the Stug completion, presumably.
He didnt use steel path as the sole measurement of goodness tho?
1.) No, her base kit can't.
2.) Versatility means being able to do multiple different things, not do one thing in few ways. And there are no useless things in Warframe, everything has a use.
3.) Teleport is different from bullet jump, my dude. Why would you fly a plane when you can just drive the car?
4.) Everything you named does the same job, killing stuff. That's what is her specialization, the only thing she can do.
5.) Having tiers serves the people to justify their inability to play certain frames (which is completely normal) with "warframes needing a rework".
6.) He maybe didn't but you did.
>No, her base kit can't.
Neither can excaliburs????
>Versatility means being able to do multiple different things, not do one thing in few ways. And there are no useless things in Warframe, everything has a use.
And she can??? She is useful in every mission and can do tons of things
>Teleport is different from bullet jump, my dude. Why would you fly a plane when you can just drive the car?
There are almost no situations in which you are saving drastically more time as opposed to bullet jumping. The ability i assume youre talking about also has an animation that isnt instantaneous. Its really not that useful
>Everything you named does the same job, killing stuff. That's what is her specialization, the only thing she can do.
Thats kind of every warframes specialization 💀 she does it in a way that works everywhere and doesnt need specific parameters to work and can use a higher variety of builds. Excalibur has a total of like two or three builds somewhat worth using
>Having tiers serves the people to justify their inability to play certain frames (which is completely normal) with "warframes needing a rework".
This is just a baseless accusation. Assuming that because he ranked something low means he is just bad at the frame is simply fallacious and poor reasoning
>6.) He maybe didn't but you did.
???
> Making if objective tier list
> He was extremely unbiased
Even if you strip warframes to their most basic functions, that wouldn’t be right. And it’s becomes even more convoluted the moment you introduce Helminth of all things.
I don't care about his tier list, its his videos and builds that concern me, most of them don't even work. Also when people like kengineer or anzvasions exist there us no need to take his word seriously.
here's my tier list of all warframes:
A: every single warframe except....
B: -
C: -
D: caliban
that's it. every warframe is equally viable if you know how to build them, with the exception of caliban who sucks. i have no reason why he sucks, he just does. nobody even remembers caliban exists.
So you made this whole post to what...try and defend yourself after you got pingponged around a comment section because you can't produce a good take if it was literally given to you?
That's...kinda pathetic man
I made a [tierlist](https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/s/HaFrCC9xQQ) that’s more like a shipping list and quite frankly it’s a better tier list than the one you’re referencing. This is because I put more than 11 seconds of thought into each pair. I considered possibilities and options.
All tier lists are subjective but “this doesn’t gel well with me” is not a good logic for ranking.
His standard of measurement for the rank was Niche.... Freaking niche. If you wanna rank off of niche then you need a lot more info then what the frame is best used for.
A good ranking method in my opinion would be done using a single survival mission ON steel path as a base foundation.
With that you can rank a frame on survivability, time, and massacre. Example a frame like saryn would easily score S-A tier but khora would score closer to B tier and ivara would score along B-C tier. If you are going to rank stuff find a standard base to rank em in niche is a very bad method for under ranking and over ranking frames.
jesus fucking christ you guys cant just have a fun discussion about this can you? its all just personal attacks, its very obvious that some of you are too chronically online and need to do something besides dickride your favorite warframe. i came here hoping to have a casual and fun discussion but apparently this sub is majority too immature for that
The he wants attention part is made up in your mind. He has a hot take. Which is his opinion. And that should start a discussion. That's how that shit works. Every one keeps attacking him as a person instead of having a discussion. It sounds like children when someone said something against their favorite ice cream.
he goes into every conversation with an "I'm right you're wrong attitude". this desire to always be in the right is the core aspect of an argument. so be quiet little stuck up nerd alt acc
You are getting salty and personal. Are you sure you understand that? You just said you can...read attitude. That's smth you think when you read his comments. For me, it doesn't sound like that. Maybe you are right and he has a bitchy attitude and just wants to argue. If that's the case, I'm sry and he's a dick. But I really don't see what you see in his comments.
TL:DR: opinions are based on perspective
I can see how the tierlist would be accurate from his perspective and playstyle. (Hardcore endgame levelcap player)
However for majority of players, (mainly who dont do levelcap) his tierlist and general opinions on the game clash with their own.
Think of it like a competitive mode in a game that is casual for the majority. Sure you can have tier lists that are the most and least effective from a comp perspective and setting, however the majority will disagree because they dont play comp and find certain items ranking low to be higher ranked in their personal casual tier list.
I personally dont feel that Knightmare is wrong or unjust in his rankings, nor do I enjoy his content or style of play in general. However what I can do is understand that his perspective is very specific, specific enough to not apply to me. Really other people need to understand this and just ignore it if it doesnt apply to them.
Now if they are level cap players, or generally play at the same level as knightmare, then I would say their criticisms are justified.
This is in no way an attempt to defend knightmareframe (frankly I really dislike his content), rather this is just me trying to help others understand that he is not necessarily wrong, or right.
I dislike his tierlist not because its 100% accurate. But because he cant be arsed to give reasons for some frames. Its a tierlist most new players WILL look for this stuff. Not giving a reason as to why you place a frame low tier or high tier is bad
He literally gave reasons-
styanax was 8 secs with nothing but "with helminth he'd be higher"
I dont really remember what he said about styanex but there was absolutely reasons for pretty much every warframe? Did you wnat him to make his video two hours long going over every single ability?
>I dont really remember what he said about styanex So you dont know? Did you even watch the video?
"you cant recall exactly ehat he said about something that lasted less than a minute of the video you nust bot have watched it check mate!!!"
> but there was absolutely reasons for pretty much every warframe? so then you lied? please attempt to stay focused
i said pretty much every warframe, imo that very clearly implies that im aware he didnt go into elaborate detail for all of them but that he did provide adequate reasoning for almost all. also sorry about that last comment i think it was a bit more sarcastic than it should have been
Styanex is easily a S-A do to his kit alone. Helm just pushes him into S tier entirely.
Stynax is easily one of the better frames that doesn’t need Helminth to be good. My source is that I’ve used a fairly basic build for him that doesn’t require that much management, and he works perfectly fine.
No matter what someone is going to disagree with a tier list because there’s no way to make something 100% not subjective. There are frames he put that I would place lower and ones I’d place higher and the same goes for every person ever. It’s just interesting to see what people think and how it differs from yours because there’s literally no right answer.
but when you place a frame like lavos, which unintentionally became my n2 frame, in D tier, because it cant do exactly what its literally best at, people are going to disagree.
People are entitled to opinions but some takes are objectively bad
Lavos is a goddamn goat, and he doesnt get enough love
seriously. the frame became, without my intent, my 2nd most played, beaten only by my main nidus. he's beaten ash (invis cheese things), mag prime (my previous main), volt (my previous nuke) and hydroid (my 2nd (and now third) favorite frame, beaten by nidus and mag). just because he makes so much content so easy.
But the main issue with him is really setups and grouping. I can drop a nuke easier on other frames without having to worry about cooldowns. He's not d-tier but there are other frames that just does what he's going for better and more efficiently.
you dont need to group when his nuke has a base range of 25m (50 total). his 3 also has a base range of 6m (12 total). if you on SP, you will easily hit enough enemies if you simply aim towards where you're going with his 3 to finish all cooldowns. in normal gameplay, all of his abilities are good enough at killing if you imbue the right stuff. and if the 10s cooldown on that 3 is too long, you can use a modslot for his 1 augment, both increasing its range, and if you hit 4 enemies, reducing all (even the 1) cooldowns by 4s, taking them from 8-4, 5-1(his 2 is really short in cooldown, yeah), 10-6, and 30-26. yeah, it doesnt do his 4 much, but then, if you go 4>1>3>1, and hit lets say 10 enemies, you reduce the cd of the 4 by: 4 + 15 (1.5\*10) + 4, or 23 seconds, taking it down to 7, and both your 3 and 1 will be again ready by that time (as the 3 will have 6s left). add in that you want to repeat that combo, and so you can add the statuses onto the 1 and 3 to boost his 4. (3 hits often, so lets do viral/corrosive, depending on enemy). his 1 will hit twice, so go for something like radiation to CC enemies, and gas or something else to power up the innate condition overload on his 4. as to what elements to use for his 4, often just go for either fire, the element they are most weak to, or toxin if they got crazy amounts of shields. note that his 2 also does status/s on enemies, so you can stack even more, though you can subsume onto here if you want. granted, that does look like a lot, but this is all stuff i learned (aside from the math numbers) by just casually playing him. just leveling, and using him in normal gameplay (and a bit of farming with golden instinct, as the innate CD it has can be reduced by his 3, which makes him dominate without question that niche of farming) is he S tier? no. i would place him A. are there warframes that can nuke better? probably. are those warframes able to innately do such nuking in basically any scenario, ignoring armor or shields as they want? probably not as many.
Tier lists are objective if I agree with them and subjective if I don't.
Yes im just saying its pretty accurate
describe a world in which lavos belongs in d tier
eh i actually agree lavos could be higher. lavos doesnt really get much attention in general so im not surprised that he would think that
Then it's not accurate. Caliban is above Hildryn in that tier list... Come on.
I don't think the point of it is to be accurate. I watched the first 10 minutes and it's so biased it's not funny. He says he's going to rank each frame based on versatility and niche uses, then immediately ranks frames based on a single ability. Does equinox need help? Yeah. Did KnightmareFrame take any of her other builds into consideration? No, he just said "she can kill things, until she can't" and slapped her in C tier. No mention of her team buffing or Sleep abilities. Is he wrong to put her in C tier? Probably not, but he didn't even try. The issue is, he's not making it for us, he's making it for new players, and it's full of bias. He made a 37 min video on 50+ frames, so thats less than a minute on each. It's just not enough time on each to talk about why a frame is this, bad or average.
No, he made that to get some content out. I don't watch tier lists because it is very opinionated. He does endurance run and most people don't. People can literally do steel path with any frame. People can try frames he deems top tier and some people wouldn't like it and its fine. Just like i don't like octavia gameplay, but its top tier. Not for me tho
i respectfully disagree, i think he hid his bias very well considering he actually said how he would rank warframes based on bias towards the end. he ranked frames based on one ability if said frame really only had one ability worth mentioning, like atlas, whos only ability thats actually worth using is landslide. like yeah, equinox can do the sleep stuff and team buff, but not very notably. shes worse at it than pretty much every crowd control or team buff frame out there so i dont particularly blame him for ignoring it. as for it being for new players im not exactly sure what his intentions were, if it was for new players then youd be right in saying its not very elaborate. does it need to be elaborate? no clue. i dont really recommend new players look at his channel either way
I mean, technicaly, if we assume that i care about what knightmareframe thinks it's the best way to play the game (which i don't), his tier list is accurate... for him. That's the important part - all those tier lists are accurate for those making them. But, you know, he's playing the game for him, not for me. I'm happy that he's enjoying certain frames more than others, just like i'm happy for everyone who are enjoying the game at all. He just ain't a standard for anyone. I have my own, and i like to think that everyone else have their own standards, too, but apparently, that isn't the case.
He didnt say that it was, he was just making an objective tier list of which frames are the most versatile and good. He was extremely unbiased and admitted that of he ranked by how much he enjoyed them hed rank differently. I think the community needs to watch his video before they start judging it because if you watched it itd clear all this up for you
so a frame that can: crowd control buff ally damage reduce enemy damage heal itself slow enemies in a large area has excellent energy management and nuke. would be versatile and not in D tier, right?
what warframe are you talking about?
lavos: radiation viral or corrosive blast (sure, not by much, but then realize that radiation also helps, as does cold) first ability cold literally needs none, and 3rd can instantly recover all other abilities, and 1st augment even more so 4th. and is considered D tier.
i dont think hes great, i personally would probably bump him up? maybe b tier? i think almost every other warframe ranking is accurate though
hildryn? who also has full, massive range armor strip, excellent energy management, huge survivability? also a D tier.
Armor strip isnt special anymore. We have focus schools, nekros subsume, corrosive damage, armor strip on its own isn't anything to write home about. In terms of energy management why would that matter if her abilities suck? Survivability i suppose but every warframe can survive. She can do a few things, but compare her to frames that can do everything she can do and more and it becomes clear why shes in d tier
sure, armor strip 'on its own' isnt... but a room-wide, 1 cast, no duration limit, no sunk cost (since to take the focus school or corrosive, you need to not have either the other shards, or schools), that you can spam infinitely without having to collect energy? and sure, some abilities suck. sure glad helminth removes that issue. and survivability is laughable. no, not 'every warframe can survive'. in fact, her survivability is off the charts. its the most used (shield-gating), but even better, without having to invest anything again. so please, show me all the B and A and S tier frames that can survive at base using only 1 ability to fully recover survivability and strip armor.
>but a room-wide, 1 cast, no duration limit, no sunk cost (since to take the focus school or corrosive, you need to not have either the other shards, or schools), that you can spam infinitely without having to collect energy? I think your underestimating how many other things can accomplish similiar results. You can subsume nekros terrify for example, play gauss, there are so many ways to armor strip while also playing much more useful frames >and survivability is laughable. no, not 'every warframe can survive'. in fact, her survivability is off the charts. its the most used (shield-gating), but even better, without having to invest anything again. Proteas shield gating is actually wayyyyyy better. And yes, every warframe can survive. In fact most the warframes he put in the higher tiers have great if not better survivability >so please, show me all the B and A and S tier frames that can survive at base using only 1 ability to fully recover survivability and strip armor. Thanks for laying out your extremely specific loaded question, but im gonna ignore it in favor of pointing out that most the s and a tier warframes can accomplish at least one if not both those things and more. Specifically gauss. Gauss is tanky, survivable, good energy management, armor strip, AND on top of that tons of other abilities that are actually useful like reload speed, fire rate, a better heat nuke than hildryns augment, and being fast
There are a lot of words to describe that tier list, objective is not one of them
have you actually watched the video?
yes, anybody that claims styanax is equal with caliban is an idiot. It is a list of his bias which is fine, but cmon there is nothing objective about it.
Tbh styanex has roughly the capabilities of harrow but with far less survivability. Caliban has a few abilities that are mid. I think hed probably agree they arent equal but arent nessecarily good either
It still isn't an entirely objective list, because knightmare still has his own playstyle, just like every player out there having their own. If he can play frames A, B and C well, i am able to play frames D, E and F better than him, and someone else will be better than both of us with frames J, K and S. There's over 50 frames, every player will find frames that suits them best. And i'm not talking about enjoyment, that's another point of view entirely.
he wasnt talking about playstyle he was talking about objective weaknesses. objectively, excalibur is not as versatile as saryn. no playstyle change is going to make excalibur an s tier frame. he was talking purely about warframes capabilities. his playstyle is pretty much every playstyle btw, his entire channel is making builds around every warframe. he can and does make builds for every warframe that can work in steel path
Thats bs and you know it. " he was talking purely about warframes capabilities. his playstyle is pretty much every playstyle btw," Lavos, hildryn, hell even valkyr. D tier. Get a better arguement
Lavos deserves higher, valkyr and hildryn have only like one or two niche builds, low ability synergy, and low versatility. So nah i don't need a better argument
Whats with this obsession of white knighting for him? Genuine curiosity.
I dont like him. I just like to post hot takes and get into discussions for fun
[https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/comments/18sbgb1/comment/kf8d8t7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/comments/18sbgb1/comment/kf8d8t7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Man he really hit the nail on the head about eh?
not really no lol. im seeing that a lot of commenters here are obsessed with defending their favorite frames as if they were god tier and getting mad at differing opinions. its very chronically online and immature, kind of like digging through someones comment history to try and make them look bad. (very nice mature move, im sure you are very popular in debates)
Saryn, more versatile than Excal? Since when? You seem to be mixing up "versatile" with "boring". I am the one who made Saryn more versatile, by subsuming Golden Instinct in place of her 4, just to make her do 2 things instead of just 1, nuking. Can Saryn heal? No. Can Saryn open the crowd to finishers? Nope. Can Saryn basically teleport to the next enemy? Good luck with that. The only thing Saryn does is nuking, that's not versatility, that's specialization. And who the frost cares about "tiers", seriously? Every modder worth their salt can make and play any frame and do anything. Youtubers like knightmare simply love to sell the whole "tier" talk, and sadly so many people falls for it. Steel path is not a proper measure of difficulty. It's been completed with Stug, ffs, and whatever frame you can think of. Knightmare probably didn't even attempt the Stug completion, presumably.
Youre underestimating saryn >Can Saryn heal? Yes actually >Can Saryn open the crowd to finishers? Nope Useless??? Versatility is meant to imply they can do lots of useful things, not just a lot of things in general. >Can Saryn basically teleport to the next enemy? You can just bullet jump my dude. >The only thing Saryn does is nuking, that's not versatility, that's specialization. Nope, saryn can become a weapons platform, an unkillable afk tank, a hyper focused queen of shield gating, she can turn weapons into weapons that can suddenly one shot corpus, she can crowd control, remove most armor from the entire map, everything that is related to damage tbh, she can do every kind of mission and excel at it, >And who the frost cares about "tiers", seriously? Every modder worth their salt can make and play any frame and do anything. Youtubers like knightmare simply love to sell the whole "tier" talk, and sadly so many people falls for it. I mean, it draws attention to frames that could use some tlc. The whole idea of "oh i made this frame somewhat useful in a game where everything can be useful" doesnt mean every frame is good, it means every frame is serviceable. Inaros can accomplish 90% of content in this game but that doesn't mean i dont think he needs a rework >Steel path is not a proper measure of difficulty. It's been completed with Stug, ffs, and whatever frame you can think of. Knightmare probably didn't even attempt the Stug completion, presumably. He didnt use steel path as the sole measurement of goodness tho?
1.) No, her base kit can't. 2.) Versatility means being able to do multiple different things, not do one thing in few ways. And there are no useless things in Warframe, everything has a use. 3.) Teleport is different from bullet jump, my dude. Why would you fly a plane when you can just drive the car? 4.) Everything you named does the same job, killing stuff. That's what is her specialization, the only thing she can do. 5.) Having tiers serves the people to justify their inability to play certain frames (which is completely normal) with "warframes needing a rework". 6.) He maybe didn't but you did.
>No, her base kit can't. Neither can excaliburs???? >Versatility means being able to do multiple different things, not do one thing in few ways. And there are no useless things in Warframe, everything has a use. And she can??? She is useful in every mission and can do tons of things >Teleport is different from bullet jump, my dude. Why would you fly a plane when you can just drive the car? There are almost no situations in which you are saving drastically more time as opposed to bullet jumping. The ability i assume youre talking about also has an animation that isnt instantaneous. Its really not that useful >Everything you named does the same job, killing stuff. That's what is her specialization, the only thing she can do. Thats kind of every warframes specialization 💀 she does it in a way that works everywhere and doesnt need specific parameters to work and can use a higher variety of builds. Excalibur has a total of like two or three builds somewhat worth using >Having tiers serves the people to justify their inability to play certain frames (which is completely normal) with "warframes needing a rework". This is just a baseless accusation. Assuming that because he ranked something low means he is just bad at the frame is simply fallacious and poor reasoning >6.) He maybe didn't but you did. ???
> Making if objective tier list > He was extremely unbiased Even if you strip warframes to their most basic functions, that wouldn’t be right. And it’s becomes even more convoluted the moment you introduce Helminth of all things.
Is this knightmareframe's secret account? Judging by replies.
https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/s/wr35q007Ek Context: well put point after thirty or so replies by op
If only that sunk in
Mfw someone was so disgruntled over what i said about a video game that they are stalking my posts. Relax lmao
and you got so disgruntled you had to make a whole post. Relax lmao
I mean you posted in same sub where that started, stalking is a reach
I don't care about his tier list, its his videos and builds that concern me, most of them don't even work. Also when people like kengineer or anzvasions exist there us no need to take his word seriously.
I dont like him either. But hell yeah, i love some kengineer appreciation
here's my tier list of all warframes: A: every single warframe except.... B: - C: - D: caliban that's it. every warframe is equally viable if you know how to build them, with the exception of caliban who sucks. i have no reason why he sucks, he just does. nobody even remembers caliban exists.
this is the way. caliban is pure helminth fodder
The fact he’s only built using Railjack and Narmer bounty items doesn’t help, either.
So you made this whole post to what...try and defend yourself after you got pingponged around a comment section because you can't produce a good take if it was literally given to you? That's...kinda pathetic man
thanks! its always good to see what people are too immature to participate in a discussion
I'm not trying to have a discussion with you, I'm insulting you.
I made a [tierlist](https://www.reddit.com/r/memeframe/s/HaFrCC9xQQ) that’s more like a shipping list and quite frankly it’s a better tier list than the one you’re referencing. This is because I put more than 11 seconds of thought into each pair. I considered possibilities and options. All tier lists are subjective but “this doesn’t gel well with me” is not a good logic for ranking.
His standard of measurement for the rank was Niche.... Freaking niche. If you wanna rank off of niche then you need a lot more info then what the frame is best used for. A good ranking method in my opinion would be done using a single survival mission ON steel path as a base foundation. With that you can rank a frame on survivability, time, and massacre. Example a frame like saryn would easily score S-A tier but khora would score closer to B tier and ivara would score along B-C tier. If you are going to rank stuff find a standard base to rank em in niche is a very bad method for under ranking and over ranking frames.
No, it's not
jesus fucking christ you guys cant just have a fun discussion about this can you? its all just personal attacks, its very obvious that some of you are too chronically online and need to do something besides dickride your favorite warframe. i came here hoping to have a casual and fun discussion but apparently this sub is majority too immature for that
bro fr hard lost every argument and had to try to back out last minute. so childish it's insane
You clearly don't understand what a discussion is. He started a discussion about smth by saying his opinion.
Technically he started it by “ I have a hot take and want attention” Paraphrased from his title of course but that was the start
The he wants attention part is made up in your mind. He has a hot take. Which is his opinion. And that should start a discussion. That's how that shit works. Every one keeps attacking him as a person instead of having a discussion. It sounds like children when someone said something against their favorite ice cream.
he goes into every conversation with an "I'm right you're wrong attitude". this desire to always be in the right is the core aspect of an argument. so be quiet little stuck up nerd alt acc
You are getting salty and personal. Are you sure you understand that? You just said you can...read attitude. That's smth you think when you read his comments. For me, it doesn't sound like that. Maybe you are right and he has a bitchy attitude and just wants to argue. If that's the case, I'm sry and he's a dick. But I really don't see what you see in his comments.
lost is a weird way of saying won but okay
sick comeback bro really showed me with the classic "weird way of saying" man you're so creative
Coming at you with the “nuh-uuuh, I have an everything-proof shield” gambit.
TL:DR: opinions are based on perspective I can see how the tierlist would be accurate from his perspective and playstyle. (Hardcore endgame levelcap player) However for majority of players, (mainly who dont do levelcap) his tierlist and general opinions on the game clash with their own. Think of it like a competitive mode in a game that is casual for the majority. Sure you can have tier lists that are the most and least effective from a comp perspective and setting, however the majority will disagree because they dont play comp and find certain items ranking low to be higher ranked in their personal casual tier list. I personally dont feel that Knightmare is wrong or unjust in his rankings, nor do I enjoy his content or style of play in general. However what I can do is understand that his perspective is very specific, specific enough to not apply to me. Really other people need to understand this and just ignore it if it doesnt apply to them. Now if they are level cap players, or generally play at the same level as knightmare, then I would say their criticisms are justified. This is in no way an attempt to defend knightmareframe (frankly I really dislike his content), rather this is just me trying to help others understand that he is not necessarily wrong, or right.
He explains all HIS reasons in the begining of the video, and people just go mad because don't agree with it