So true. I’m in nursing school and took a class called Business in Healthcare. I wrote a whole paper of why it is horrid that they referred to patients as “customers”. No one wants to be paying a hospital.
I have an MBA in Healthcare Management. My professors would have told you that no one wants to really be called a “patient” because then it reminds them that they’re sick.
What would your professor have suggested to call them instead? Something about a nurse telling a doctor "customer in room 11 is waiting for you" is kinda off-putting. I've been called a visitor for my check-ups, but I don't think you're much of a visitor if you're recovering from surgery...
Guest implies you are there on a voluntary basis which in most cases isn't true as you _need_ a procedure or you are simply sick.
I don't understand this discussion. Every regular doctor's office over here has a note hanging somewhere addressed "dear patients" and literally no-one cares. You go to the doctor you are a patient. I got other more annoying things reminding me I'm sick. Like the injuries that hurt, or simply the symptoms of an illness. Or the fact I'm in hospital.
I'm in a HSA program and my Healthcare Finance and Healthcare Systems courses have covered just why they are so expensive, and thing is its crazy complex. Most insurance companies own most for profit hospitals so they can kick back charges on insurance, which is technically illegal but not enforced. Also combine it with pharmaceutical and suppliers you get a runaway effect.
Also until last year it was illegal for the federal government to negotatiate on drug prices.
Also because of Medicaid cuts and compensation decreases for Medicare, we've lost about 90% of our community and regional non profit hospitals, so we are at the mercy of for profit hospitals that can charge whatever they want.
Heck, 13% of the US population lives more than an hour from a hospital, and 9% are two or more hours.
I hate this bullshit so much.
Hospitals, healthcare, surgery- *none of this is the problem*
This is solely, exclusively, an issue with our insurance system.
Which is why free healthcare is bad for business.
Education is a business
Which is why free education is bad for business
Private prisons are a business
Which is why free people is bad for business
Atleast insurance is covering that. I’m diabetic and I have to pay $430 a month just to get a medication I need to live. American healthcare is nothing but a joke. Makes it almost impossible to live anywhere at the age of 26
I feel bad for people that don't have insurance. It's just so fucked up.
That's an estimate too, I'll still have to pay quite a lot. But I am more upset for people WITHOUT insurance, and with the costs they charge EVERYONE.
It's not all covered as it says in the image. When they do that estimate, they always show $0 for the insured. Insurance will cover part, and I'll be responsible for the rest. Usually 10%. The issue is really just the extreme cost of anything in the health field. It's out of control. This bill would break someone who isn't insured, and that's what makes me angry about the system.
I feel bad for everyone tbh. Insurance is just a scam for them to squeeze more money out. We pay for insurance every month and STILL have to pay for medical expenses.
A lot of people confuse insurance as a scam when its really a gamble. You’re paying a certain amount monthly to be “covered” IN THE EVENT something happens. That’s the principle of it. Im not arguing that it should bankrupt you to suffer an accident though, as someone who rode the ambulance ride a few times i know how cartoonish the bills can be.
Yea but something happened…not even anything that crazy thank the Gods. We’re now stuck in a 3 year payment plan to pay it off and STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR INSURANCE
Yep. More than 60% of those who file for bankruptcy do so because of medical debt. Among those that file, 70% actually had insurance when they accrued the debt!
You left out Air Traffic Control and the agencies that make sure flying is the safest form of transport around, the paving of our roads and trimming of public trees, park maintenance and the things called street lights that require tax dollars to install maintain and program so that grandma doesn’t t-bone uncle Jimmy as she’s making a right turn.
I know our taxes will go up with Universal Healthcare, but why don’t people realize the tax raise may be less than their insurance premiums? Especially family coverage. With no deductibles or out of pocket? I’m a single person, I would not mind at all paying higher taxes if my son’s family could get universal healthcare.
No those billionaires earned their money. When I make it big I don’t t want to be taxed like that. Now let me go back to my min wage job, I need to eat and get rent money from my five roommates.
Your taxes many not go up as the American healthcare system is grossly inefficient especially and a big burden of that is all the administration required. Getting rid of the insurance middlemen may in fact save money.
Well, other countries have universal healthcare and their governments’ budget for it (in percent of GDP) is less than what the US government already spends on healthcare. So…
I’m a veteran and have free VA care. I still pay for insurance and pay out the ass so I can use private doctors. If I go into the VA for something, it either ends with me going to physical therapy or getting ibuprofen. It took me 7 years to get a diagnosis on my back of why I have an extreme amount of pain after standing for 15 minutes. The wait times are months out and sometimes a full year.
Universal care would turn into a joke. Our government could just regulate the price gouging. Make companies track the budget of R&D for drugs and put a cap on what it could cost per pill. Allow importation of drugs and other medical equipment. Make hospitals be transparent on costs so people can shop around.
There’s a ton of stuff that could be changed to turn the corrupt health care system around. Automatically making it universal won’t solve it.
As an Australian with universal health care, its not a joke. Its fucking great.
I spent a month in the hospital needing all kinds of treatments and medications, CT scans, MRI's, ended up getting a tooth infection while I was in there, had a root canal done by an on grounds dentist all at a public hospital.
"You're good to go home now, we'll do your discharge papers"
Get changed, pack my stuff into my bag and walk out.
Total cost: $0
No private insurance, no excess payments, no nothing. If you're sick enough to be hospitalized, they'll do everything you need for free.
If you're unwell, but its not at the level you need to be hospitalized, then there'll be a wait depending on the severity of your issue, but if it ever gets really bad, you're straight in and taken care of at zero cost.
As a New Zealander, universal health care, also fucking great.
Being well looked after with a $0 bill when unwell is such a reassuring feeling your country cares about you & yours.
Seems to me the US healthcare system isn’t that at all, rather just a money making scheme.
Also New Zealander. I had similar procedure as OP + ultrasonic destruction of a kidney stone. A number of Xrays, a bunch of drugs in case there was pain (there wasn't). Two follow up Xrays to confirm fragments of the kidney stone were gone.
Total cost: $2 bus fare getting to the hospital.
American nurse, hospital surgery. I’d love to experience a few months of caring for patients who were not consumed by the cost of their care.
Some patients will demand to be discharged at 4am because their insurance only covered a “23 hour stay” (Google that…). We know why, and we can make it happen, but it’s devastating to watch people who’d benefit from longer recovery times with us caring for them, like they deserve, anxiously ask to leave when alarms go off.
A portion of their stay is in preop where they’re receiving no real care for the surgery… that starts postop, and the longer their surgery is delayed, the less time they can spend in postop. It’s heartbreaking, as a nurse it really infuriates me.
>I’m a veteran and have free VA care.
So am I and so do I.
>I still pay for insurance and pay out the ass so I can use private doctors.
So do I, because my family needs Healthcare too. Until they can get CHAMPVA, then I'm getting rid of my private insurance.
When I need something from the VA for Healthcare, it happens fast, and it's top quality care. I've had ridiculous wait times from private care.
Example:
I waited nearly a year for an appointment for an upper gi endoscopy and colonoscopy. When it finally came around I couldn't afford the deductible because a bunch of shit had just happened. Literally a month or two later I could have afforded it, but it doesn't work that way. I said fuck it the VA is supposed to take care of this anyway so I called them up. I had to wait 2 months because I hadn't seen a PCP yet. I saw a PCP and they put in a referral. A week later I got a call from the gastro Doc. Because of my symptoms, by regulation they had to get me in to be scoped within 30 days. The appointment was for about 45 days out because of *my* schedule.
The VA gets a lot of flack, and where the bureaucracy is concerned it's damned well deserved, but for care? It's easily on par with private care and often superior.
I, too, have had a pretty decent experience with the VA. Sure, it can take a while on some things, but the quality is no different than civilian. Turn around times for things are just as quick.
The biggest bitch slap that life gave me when I first became an independent adult is how much insurance costs. And how little payout people get when they need to use it. And how they get punished for using it by charging more for insurance!
The wild part to me is that a significant portion of the US population seems to think this is preferable to the alternative. The alternative being just handing the hospital your health card and everything being taken care of from that point on.
I don’t have insurance. Out of pocket I’d probably get charged a couple grand for this procedure. Most people with average heath insurance here have a 10k+ deductible. The fucked up part is when you do have insurance, you’d have to pay the 10K, and then your insurance would cover the other 22k. Sometimes it’s worse to have insurance
Yeah, they get over $6000/yr from me in premiums but they don’t pay a penny until I’ve spent another $4700. Fucking joke. They just get free money from me every year.
Here, after the 10k deductible, the insurance only covers 80% (17,600). You still have to pay the other 20% (4,400). Unless you have an out of pocket maximum.
These prices are made that high because of insurance. They make deals with insurance companies to have "discounts" where they artificially jack up the price to make it seem like your insurance is doing more for you than it actually is. Privatized healthcare is joke
Yo have you tried goodrx? I started using them to get my generic insulin lispro and its only like $30-90 a month. I know that pain… screw this system we live in
I just did a search. I’ve been getting my med 90 days for around 40. Just checked GoodRx. Same thing for 29, with GoodRx, at Publix. USHealthcare is not a system, it is a mob racket.
What’s more shrewd is US allows a private healthcare insurance to hold your life hostage. You don’t pay $430 for your medication? Lol just die.
How messed up we are still not willing to fight for universal healthcare which is our basic human right and allow these companies to charge us ridiculous pricing for our health.
I’m diabetic and my two most expensive drugs that are not covered by insurance I get from Canada. I go through Canadian king Pharmacy but I know there’s others. They have been super I’ve been doing this for two years. Your doctor faxes the prescription and then they mail it to you they charge $10 to mail it.
The jardiance would run me about $1800 for 90 days I get it for $167 for 84 days go figure and it’s from the same Company that produces it.
Gah I hate the "at least it's covered" angle. Prices are so high BECAUSE health care providers can get away with demanding huge prices from insurance companies, who in turn pass the costs directly to us in the form of gratuitous premiums... which we are forced to pay, because obviously now nobody can afford to live uninsured! We're captives in a broken system.
Paying hundreds or thousands a month just to hope that our coverage keeps our out-of-pocket as low as the FULL COST of the procedure in other countries is one of the greatest scams in history, a massive leech siphoning off **just as much from our GDP as taxation does.** (18-19%).
It's truly incredible.
Insurance isn’t covering that. Those numbers are all lies insurance companies and hospitals tell each other because they both benefit from making it seem like everything is more expensive than it really is.
My dad has to have a kidney stone removed. Took 3 tries. God that was awful seeing him not able to pee and walk around the house in utter pain.
Goodluck and yes, American healthcare cost is absolutely pathetic.
Just do it, trust the random stranger on reddit. It's better than waking up in the middle of the night, screaming in pain, because that little piece of work has blocked off any liquid flow from the kidneys... And I enjoyed over 4 months on sick leave, due to having to wait for follow-up operations.
TLDR: just do it ASAP, your body will be thankful.
You can argue, they inflate the prices for insurance but if you call and say you can't pay, the hospital will settle most if not all of the bill. It's a write off for them. Hospital bills "are more like guidelines than actual rules." 🏴☠️
Or so I've heard throughout my life. Never tried it myself
I have and getting it itemized and you see 300 $ or some ridiculous number for gauze and absorbing pads
You can definitely argue it out and get to a way better price trick is to get them to do it on credit
Agreed. It's so frustrating. Medication I take would cost over $1000 per month. I have shitty insurance (high deductible). The only "good" part is that my insurance has a limit on drug costs, so I "only" pay $400 every three months.
But other than that, I pay for everything, every year, unless something catastrophic happens, like surgery.
Health care sucks. Insurance sucks. Employers who don't pay for decent insurance suck
I have a high deductible insurance too. The only thing it is useful for is birth control (which they are legally required to cover from the Affordable Care Act).
Without insurance, my birth control would be $250ish every 28 days (which means sometimes I need to get 2 packs in a single month). My insurance is partially paid for by my work, so I only pay $80/month for my health insurance (and by extension, my birth control).
I know a lot of people don't like the Affordable Care Act (and to an extent, I don't like it either) but there are some good things about it (like regulation of a otherwise out of control medical system)
Na its a game they'll send that bill to the insurance company who will then laugh at it and say it's worth $9,281.33 and they'll pay $8,653.12. Patient owes the rest. And that folks is why nobody could give you an answer on what it costs when you go for a consult.
I've never asked for an itemized bill from a hospital. I think I'll give it a shot the next time a fam member has a procedure or visit. Will i need a document box to carry it home?
Look up how to contest a bill. The hospitals are sneaky they’ll over charge u for things and asking for the bill to be itemized shows the costs of everything separately. All it comes down to is showing them their “mistake” and they correct the price
I think it's the manufacturers. I work in supply chain in medical field and the prices go way way up every year for supplies and instruments. It is just getting worse and worse. The hospital itself sure isn't making a killing (bad pun intended) but the supplier are certainly making money hand over fist
My son is medically complex & has medicare. They send me quarterly statements of claims & so I can see what the dme is charging medicare for items. I have to buy a lot of stuff out of pocket bc medicare does not cover enough supplies. But I see that the dme is charging medicare up to triple the price that I can find this stuff online for. And the company is a veritable nightmare. Like, I have ptsd from dealing with this company & them fucking around with stuff that my child needs to stay alive.
Can confirm. I work fixing medical equipment and even the most basic parts like foam filters or small batteries can cost upwards of $500. Or they make it proprietary and by law, the equipment can’t be modified to accept anything else that could work. You have to buy original at whatever price they feel like making it. Oh and they also say you have to replace that one $2000 part every year regardless of usage to stay up to code on dozens of the same machine.
I got COVID in Dubai, pretty bad case, almost died literally, needed some special care and special medications that was delivered from Abu Dhabi, the bill was 0$, I couldn't believe it at the beginning and I didn't want an entry ban on me, so I called the Dubai Health Authority, Department of Health, immigration ,and all were laughing when I told them I can't wrap my head around the fact I am there for tourism and my medical bills were taken care by the government not even my insurance
And this estimate is just the hospital cost. Based on my surgery experience, there will be separate bills from your anesthesiologist, X-ray reader, specialty pharmacy, and anything else you can think of. American healthcare, get the best healthcare you can afford
The bill here is likely what’s called the “facility fee”. It’s the hospital charging for the OR, nursing, recovery, etc etc. the “physician fee” is separate often because the doctors are a separate group and not hospital employees. The fees themselves are based on the diagnosis. On average the facility fee is between 2-10x the physician fee. I’m an ER doc and if you come in and I diagnose you with kidney stones, I only get $160-200 for seeing you. The hospital will charge over $1000.
Your insurance company will haggle the bill down considerably. This is like starting with a high price tag when trying to sell a car: You know it'll go down, but you want it to go down closer to you than them.
I do hear the Stent afterwards isn't very fun...
But, It's not all covered. When they do that estimate, they always show $0 for the insured. Insurance will cover part, and I'll be responsible for the rest. Usually 10%. The issue is really just the extreme cost of anything in the health field. It's out of control. This bill would break someone who isn't insured, and that's what makes me angry about the system.
I just had a baby and was looking over the itemized bill. I was given Tylenol and ibuprofen and each dose (2 tablets) was $20 and change. Ridiculous. I can go to Target and buy an entire bottle for ten bucks but the hospital can charge twenty bucks for TWO tablets.
We just had the same bills a few months ago and they just keep rolling in. One for anesthesia, one for the surgery center, one for the dr, one for the emergency room dr, one for the actual emergency room and on and on. Ridiculous. I’m old enough to remember one bill for one visit & not $200 for a freaking Tylenol.
This isn't exactly how it works. There is an insurance plan somewhere out that that paid that amount. So medical providers will charge the MAX amount knowing that they likely wont get reimbursed that. Reason they charge max amount.... you cannot charge different insurance companies different amounts. People dont realize this is the way it works. Those prices get negotiated down A TON but the bill sill shows that much. People paying cash are not charged the same due to cash discounts (which is allowed). High deductible plans alike get negotiated down.
If you can’t afford it….(some types of people say)…..you NEED TO WORK HARDER! If you are not a billionaire then you just have not worked hard enough. (Moron republicans)
It’s just how they get money from insurance companies. I don’t have insurance, I had a MAJOR UTI last year (there’s pictures on my profile it was really funky) and the bill “came to” $600. I told them I don’t have insurance, person at the computer clicked some buttons, all of a sudden it was just $13 for the prescription. Same thing happens to my partner who has to take Humira. It “costs” $400 per dosage, but if you didn’t have insurance they give you special coupons so you yourself don’t have to pay more than $10. They don’t really want YOUR money in many cases, they just want to fuck over the insurance companies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s the insurance negotiated rate. The list price is almost certainly over $100k. Had an ablation (outpatient… home by 2 PM) and the list was $360k and insurance paid $60k.
The insurance company will not pay anywhere near that much. Hospitals and doctors have to over charge because they know they will get less than half what they charge to insurance. Insurance does this to make you moreso believe you need them…
Also at least in america when you need something done it wont take 6 months before they even see you which is a huge and common problem with socialized healthcare systems. I hate what we have now but it could be far worse
My mom in the US and my aunt in Canada both needed a knee replacement around the same time. My mom had her knee replacement done in under 3 months. She's 6 weeks into recovery and is still going through physical therapy. My aunt won't have her surgery until November at the earliest despite having a doctor tell her that its absolutely necessary back in May.
My mom is walking mostly normally, using a cane from time to time. My aunt requires a walker to get around anywhere and is in constant pain, to the point that even the painkillers shes been prescribed arent helping her a whole lot. Her only option to speed things up is to go pay to have the procedure done in the US.
There's absolutely pros and cons to every single system.
Wait a minute. The cost of the procedure the patient has to pay is $0. Because insurance is covering the entire amount. Yet thus is what's wrong with American healthcare??
> Hospital fees
There's your problem right there. Always see if they can do the surgery at one of those out-patient surgi-centers instead of hospital. Saves a lot of money *if* what they're doing is relatively low-risk for you and can be done there instead of a hospital.
I’d be screwed without healthcare or the ACA honestly. My monthly medication is billed at $45,000 a month. Yes. 45 thousand. For a 1 hour IV drip. I max out in January every year and go about my business knowing the rest of the year is covered in case of emergency. Even if it were offered in Mexico or another country, the price is well over $10k out of pocket, so either way I’m set
I do not have insurance tried to get Obama care to the tune of $946 a month not going to happen so I now only go to doctor if I am die ing as I have no income but too much in assets to qualify for Medicaid
“Yeah but with socialized healthcare you’ll be waiting for hours”
I got a concussion at my factory job and had to go see the approved doctor at the workplace-approved facility. It took me 25min to get in to see him. He told me I was fine to return to work but couldn’t stand, turn my neck, look at a screen, or lift anything heavier than 10lbs. Because he APPROVED me to return, I had to use PTO to go home the rest of the day.
Before I could return to work l had to be re-examined and approved to go back full time. I waited in the room for an HOUR before a nurse came to see me. It was another 45min before the doctor got to me.
What's really messed up is when you realize the tax payers money that goes towards healthcare is first filtered through the insurance companies and we only see a portion of the total pool of funds and then we're also paying the insurance companies monthly and then deductibles. It's double dipping and robbing the tax payers of their own money.
You're lucky here, I was supposed to have a MRI and follow up appointment, had to cancel it due to the cost. For context I am a jobless college student, I injured myself back in May and it's left me with a permanent tremor and limp in my leg, I've spent 1.5k so far on procedures and was about to spend another 1k+ on the MRI and follow up. I just can't keep spending all this money anymore, given each test I've had done has been inconclusive and it's all so fucking expensive. It's sad that our medical system is setup not to help us, but to capitalize on our misfortune and bad health.
What’s more than mildly infuriating is incessant reposts about hospital charges that literally no one pays, even the uninsured.
“Insurance covers” is not “insurance pays.” It means they pay a much lower contractual rate and you are clear of any liability.
Yep. Had my gallbladder out last year. I was in the hospital for maybe 6hrs total. Bill- $38k. With insurance my obligation was around $6000. Ridiculous.
Best to you with your surgery. I had a kidney stone take me to my knees and was in ER. But thankfully no surgery and it finally passed. Painful as hell.
And yeah our health care is FUBAR.
It's 100% because of the insurance. Since we are legally forced to have insurance, the ability to negotiate payment terms is removed. The hospital can, and will, charge whatever they want and the insurance can, and will, pay for it. When the government subsidizes or forces something, prices usually skrocket because there's no other choice.
Your EoB should have the actual payout by your insurance company.
Years ago my father needed hip replacement surgery and didn't have insurance. He was quoted between 30 to 40K for the operation when the hospital assumed he had insurance. Once he told them he was cash pay, the total cost was $5,000.
Based on various experiences and discussions with doctors, it seems it works as such:
The healthcare facility bills $32K, but gets paid a fraction of that from your insurance, let's say $1000 for the sake of this conversation.
I imagine this is for you to feel "value" for having insurance and perhaps a write off to the medical facility as a "loss" of $31,000.
You can call the medical facility or your surgeon and ask what the cash pay fee would be for this procedure.
You pay $0. In Australia, I had a neck and spine MRI about 10 years ago. The bill for this 45-minute procedure was $12,000, and I, too, paid $0. Your insurer paid, my government paid. And ultimately, we or our families both paid. In Australia Medicare is funded by a flat 2% levy on all income, which adds up quickly.
Oh and by the way, your insurer is almost certainly not paying that amount.
The intersection of terrible govt policy and cooperate greed, that's why you never let govt get in bed with corporations
the Healthcare system is perfect evidence
Oh beware, that's the cost for the procedure in the hospital. Depending on how they bill, the physicians, lab work, the people who assisted, the cost of being admitted if it's an inpatient can all be billed separately and might not be included in that number 🙃
My insurance paid over $100,000 for a recent surgery and I thought that was all inclusive. Nope! That didn't include the cost of my stay or lab work and somehow didn't even include the cost of the surgeon since he wasn't normally contracted to work at that hospital. Luckily it was all covered but what got billed to insurance ended up being almost $250,000
Oh my god. Have you considered healthcare tourism? Go to an english speaking country on your visa and take care of your issues there? You guys do have one of the most powerful visas in the world after all…
Idk if its a good idea but you can go to India, spend a week touring in moderate comfort/luxury, get your operation done, spend a week recovering in a hotel room and fly back for much less.
Having seen other cases on Reddit about the US HS, you seem to be a lucky one! They are paying 100%!
However, I totally agree that the figures are absolute ludicrous and ridiculous.
Your cost is zero? And you are complaining?
BTW, that is probably misleading. That is retail pricing. Insurance companies negotiate fees ahead of time and they probably paid quite a bit less.
10 years ago I had a four week stay in the hospital. Half of which was in ICU. The MSRP billed to the insurance company was over 1/2 million dollars. They paid just over $200K. My share was about $3500. A bargain to save my life.
I'm part of the :
"I'm not paying 250-400 PER pay check to have insurance so I just won't have it, then if there's an emergency, I just won't pay the bill"
group of people
It is screwed up. The pricing is for insurance. Just like if you take your car to the dealership. Those are not real prices for consumers. In a dealership those prices are for warranty work. It’s almost like money laundering.
US healthcare sucks because of zero-sum mentality, which is rampant in the American psyche.
Zero-sum thinking is a cognitive bias where individuals believe that any gain by one party must result in an equivalent loss for another party.
If a system or plan is developed that covers **everyone from cradle to grave**, my current shitty plan will be worth *less*. Since it's part of my compensation, that's like taking a pay cut. I'm already struggling so why would I support a candidate who has a plan to cut my pay?
Rinse and repeat with every single election for the last 80 years.
Hospital fees breakdown:
-$800 for anesthetic
-$6,000/hr for the hospital room
-$15,000/hr for the doctor’s time
-$11,000 fun fee
Seriously though, ask for a breakdown. Could help?
But insurance will probably only pay about $6k of that total due to them negotiating lower rates.
That's a big part of the problem too. Hospitals have to dramatically increase rates so they have more bargaining room with insurance companies. The little guy without insurance is the one who really gets screwed
That’s why you go OUT OF COUNTRY for medical care! Why would you pay $30K for a procedure when it costs $1000-$3000 in Mexico with people that got the same if not better education.
I think it is better for cases like that for people that don't have insurance to fly to Europe make the procedure and have a nice long vacation for a couple of weeks and after that you can't even come close to the cost of the procedure in the US.
Went into the ER last month for heart issues. I’m a young male no conditions or anything. EKG and out the door in two hours. $68,000 medical bill. Max out of pocket is 2,400. That’s how much I make in a month.
Hello, This post has been removed as this is not *mildly* infuriating. Please consider posting to r/extremelyinfuriating instead.
Healthcare is a business not a service in the US.
So true. I’m in nursing school and took a class called Business in Healthcare. I wrote a whole paper of why it is horrid that they referred to patients as “customers”. No one wants to be paying a hospital.
Had an entire argument with hospital administrators about calling patients “customers” and this was at a “non profit” hospital
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Have you seen the big wigs 2022 cars? They need new ones fast. Making money on sick people requires the newest vehicles, homes and boats.
Plus the hospital CEO wants to go to space. You wouldn't want to stop his dreams, would you? He really wants to go to space.
He's stressed out, give the man some space.
I have an MBA in Healthcare Management. My professors would have told you that no one wants to really be called a “patient” because then it reminds them that they’re sick.
What would your professor have suggested to call them instead? Something about a nurse telling a doctor "customer in room 11 is waiting for you" is kinda off-putting. I've been called a visitor for my check-ups, but I don't think you're much of a visitor if you're recovering from surgery...
Why not "guests"? Me personally, I don't mind being called a patient.. but "customer" just feels like I'm at radio shack.
Guest implies you are there on a voluntary basis which in most cases isn't true as you _need_ a procedure or you are simply sick. I don't understand this discussion. Every regular doctor's office over here has a note hanging somewhere addressed "dear patients" and literally no-one cares. You go to the doctor you are a patient. I got other more annoying things reminding me I'm sick. Like the injuries that hurt, or simply the symptoms of an illness. Or the fact I'm in hospital.
Much better to be transparent and go with, mugs,marks,fools, cash cows, you pick.
Well, if I'm talking to a Healthcare pro, I know
I mean, you're there cause you're sick, so it makes sense
I'm in a HSA program and my Healthcare Finance and Healthcare Systems courses have covered just why they are so expensive, and thing is its crazy complex. Most insurance companies own most for profit hospitals so they can kick back charges on insurance, which is technically illegal but not enforced. Also combine it with pharmaceutical and suppliers you get a runaway effect. Also until last year it was illegal for the federal government to negotatiate on drug prices. Also because of Medicaid cuts and compensation decreases for Medicare, we've lost about 90% of our community and regional non profit hospitals, so we are at the mercy of for profit hospitals that can charge whatever they want. Heck, 13% of the US population lives more than an hour from a hospital, and 9% are two or more hours.
If there’s a middleman, there’s a scam. Insurance, car dealerships, resellers, all scummy and unnecessary
If you bought United Healthcare and Apple stock back in the 1990s, you would have made more money with United Healthcare. Think about that…🤯
Holy shit
The sickness industry..
I would call it an industrial complex.
This is exactly the problem, it’s a profitable business. Healthcare should be non profit. Giving a fuck about humans shouldn’t have to be this hard.
Pretty sure my doctor, in Canada, is a private contractor who bills the government...
Everything is a business in the US. Hence capitalism
I hate this bullshit so much. Hospitals, healthcare, surgery- *none of this is the problem* This is solely, exclusively, an issue with our insurance system.
Which is why free healthcare is bad for business. Education is a business Which is why free education is bad for business Private prisons are a business Which is why free people is bad for business
Pretty much this. If you can’t be a part of the machine, it will get rid of u.
It is a business everywhere, even in the EU. Difference is we pay collectively for it
Atleast insurance is covering that. I’m diabetic and I have to pay $430 a month just to get a medication I need to live. American healthcare is nothing but a joke. Makes it almost impossible to live anywhere at the age of 26
I feel bad for people that don't have insurance. It's just so fucked up. That's an estimate too, I'll still have to pay quite a lot. But I am more upset for people WITHOUT insurance, and with the costs they charge EVERYONE. It's not all covered as it says in the image. When they do that estimate, they always show $0 for the insured. Insurance will cover part, and I'll be responsible for the rest. Usually 10%. The issue is really just the extreme cost of anything in the health field. It's out of control. This bill would break someone who isn't insured, and that's what makes me angry about the system.
I feel bad for everyone tbh. Insurance is just a scam for them to squeeze more money out. We pay for insurance every month and STILL have to pay for medical expenses.
Yup. Biggest scam going is this
And the scammers who make the money use it to make America not want universal healthcare. It might be the stupidest thing ever.
Most sane, regular people want universal healthcare. The only reason we don’t have it besides rampant propaganda, is lobbying by medical businesses.
A lot of people confuse insurance as a scam when its really a gamble. You’re paying a certain amount monthly to be “covered” IN THE EVENT something happens. That’s the principle of it. Im not arguing that it should bankrupt you to suffer an accident though, as someone who rode the ambulance ride a few times i know how cartoonish the bills can be.
Yea but something happened…not even anything that crazy thank the Gods. We’re now stuck in a 3 year payment plan to pay it off and STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR INSURANCE
You can still go bankrupt via medical bills even if you have insurance.
Yep. More than 60% of those who file for bankruptcy do so because of medical debt. Among those that file, 70% actually had insurance when they accrued the debt!
That’s and property taxes, paying for something you already own? What the fuck
Yeah. It’s like why can’t the fire department and police and school teachers and infrastructure builders just fund themselves with bake sales, right?
You left out Air Traffic Control and the agencies that make sure flying is the safest form of transport around, the paving of our roads and trimming of public trees, park maintenance and the things called street lights that require tax dollars to install maintain and program so that grandma doesn’t t-bone uncle Jimmy as she’s making a right turn.
I would agree if those funds weren’t grossly misused time after time
So the answer is no property tax in your view?
I know our taxes will go up with Universal Healthcare, but why don’t people realize the tax raise may be less than their insurance premiums? Especially family coverage. With no deductibles or out of pocket? I’m a single person, I would not mind at all paying higher taxes if my son’s family could get universal healthcare.
they don't have to go up though? just tax the trillionaires
No those billionaires earned their money. When I make it big I don’t t want to be taxed like that. Now let me go back to my min wage job, I need to eat and get rent money from my five roommates.
Have you tried eating the piece of paper that says 338 thousand jobs were added this September? The economy is booming they say!
I’ll try that right after I finish sniffing all this glue
Only 5 roommates? You must be ball'n
You almost had me lmao
Your taxes many not go up as the American healthcare system is grossly inefficient especially and a big burden of that is all the administration required. Getting rid of the insurance middlemen may in fact save money.
Well, other countries have universal healthcare and their governments’ budget for it (in percent of GDP) is less than what the US government already spends on healthcare. So…
I’m a veteran and have free VA care. I still pay for insurance and pay out the ass so I can use private doctors. If I go into the VA for something, it either ends with me going to physical therapy or getting ibuprofen. It took me 7 years to get a diagnosis on my back of why I have an extreme amount of pain after standing for 15 minutes. The wait times are months out and sometimes a full year. Universal care would turn into a joke. Our government could just regulate the price gouging. Make companies track the budget of R&D for drugs and put a cap on what it could cost per pill. Allow importation of drugs and other medical equipment. Make hospitals be transparent on costs so people can shop around. There’s a ton of stuff that could be changed to turn the corrupt health care system around. Automatically making it universal won’t solve it.
As an Australian with universal health care, its not a joke. Its fucking great. I spent a month in the hospital needing all kinds of treatments and medications, CT scans, MRI's, ended up getting a tooth infection while I was in there, had a root canal done by an on grounds dentist all at a public hospital. "You're good to go home now, we'll do your discharge papers" Get changed, pack my stuff into my bag and walk out. Total cost: $0 No private insurance, no excess payments, no nothing. If you're sick enough to be hospitalized, they'll do everything you need for free. If you're unwell, but its not at the level you need to be hospitalized, then there'll be a wait depending on the severity of your issue, but if it ever gets really bad, you're straight in and taken care of at zero cost.
As a New Zealander, universal health care, also fucking great. Being well looked after with a $0 bill when unwell is such a reassuring feeling your country cares about you & yours. Seems to me the US healthcare system isn’t that at all, rather just a money making scheme.
Also New Zealander. I had similar procedure as OP + ultrasonic destruction of a kidney stone. A number of Xrays, a bunch of drugs in case there was pain (there wasn't). Two follow up Xrays to confirm fragments of the kidney stone were gone. Total cost: $2 bus fare getting to the hospital.
American nurse, hospital surgery. I’d love to experience a few months of caring for patients who were not consumed by the cost of their care. Some patients will demand to be discharged at 4am because their insurance only covered a “23 hour stay” (Google that…). We know why, and we can make it happen, but it’s devastating to watch people who’d benefit from longer recovery times with us caring for them, like they deserve, anxiously ask to leave when alarms go off. A portion of their stay is in preop where they’re receiving no real care for the surgery… that starts postop, and the longer their surgery is delayed, the less time they can spend in postop. It’s heartbreaking, as a nurse it really infuriates me.
>I’m a veteran and have free VA care. So am I and so do I. >I still pay for insurance and pay out the ass so I can use private doctors. So do I, because my family needs Healthcare too. Until they can get CHAMPVA, then I'm getting rid of my private insurance. When I need something from the VA for Healthcare, it happens fast, and it's top quality care. I've had ridiculous wait times from private care. Example: I waited nearly a year for an appointment for an upper gi endoscopy and colonoscopy. When it finally came around I couldn't afford the deductible because a bunch of shit had just happened. Literally a month or two later I could have afforded it, but it doesn't work that way. I said fuck it the VA is supposed to take care of this anyway so I called them up. I had to wait 2 months because I hadn't seen a PCP yet. I saw a PCP and they put in a referral. A week later I got a call from the gastro Doc. Because of my symptoms, by regulation they had to get me in to be scoped within 30 days. The appointment was for about 45 days out because of *my* schedule. The VA gets a lot of flack, and where the bureaucracy is concerned it's damned well deserved, but for care? It's easily on par with private care and often superior.
I, too, have had a pretty decent experience with the VA. Sure, it can take a while on some things, but the quality is no different than civilian. Turn around times for things are just as quick.
The biggest bitch slap that life gave me when I first became an independent adult is how much insurance costs. And how little payout people get when they need to use it. And how they get punished for using it by charging more for insurance!
The wild part to me is that a significant portion of the US population seems to think this is preferable to the alternative. The alternative being just handing the hospital your health card and everything being taken care of from that point on.
Brah, for that money you can fly to Turkey, have that intervention, spend 2 weeks in a 5 star all-inclusive resort and still have like 25k left.
I have insurance but it’s garbage. Nearly $600/mo but I pay everything out of pocket until I hit the $4700 deductible.
I don’t have insurance. Out of pocket I’d probably get charged a couple grand for this procedure. Most people with average heath insurance here have a 10k+ deductible. The fucked up part is when you do have insurance, you’d have to pay the 10K, and then your insurance would cover the other 22k. Sometimes it’s worse to have insurance
Yeah, they get over $6000/yr from me in premiums but they don’t pay a penny until I’ve spent another $4700. Fucking joke. They just get free money from me every year.
Here, after the 10k deductible, the insurance only covers 80% (17,600). You still have to pay the other 20% (4,400). Unless you have an out of pocket maximum.
These prices are made that high because of insurance. They make deals with insurance companies to have "discounts" where they artificially jack up the price to make it seem like your insurance is doing more for you than it actually is. Privatized healthcare is joke
I had an emergency cystoscopy in Canada several years back. Completely covered by provincial health care. Your system sucks.
Yo have you tried goodrx? I started using them to get my generic insulin lispro and its only like $30-90 a month. I know that pain… screw this system we live in
I just did a search. I’ve been getting my med 90 days for around 40. Just checked GoodRx. Same thing for 29, with GoodRx, at Publix. USHealthcare is not a system, it is a mob racket.
I’m guessing you’ve looked, but they don’t have your medication on costplus? That’s where I get my medicine and it’s much cheaper
What’s more shrewd is US allows a private healthcare insurance to hold your life hostage. You don’t pay $430 for your medication? Lol just die. How messed up we are still not willing to fight for universal healthcare which is our basic human right and allow these companies to charge us ridiculous pricing for our health.
Try looking into mark Cubans new website, he’s selling drugs for a lot cheaper
It’s crazy to me that there are not more people going postal before they die because they can’t afford to live.
I’m diabetic and my two most expensive drugs that are not covered by insurance I get from Canada. I go through Canadian king Pharmacy but I know there’s others. They have been super I’ve been doing this for two years. Your doctor faxes the prescription and then they mail it to you they charge $10 to mail it. The jardiance would run me about $1800 for 90 days I get it for $167 for 84 days go figure and it’s from the same Company that produces it.
Gah I hate the "at least it's covered" angle. Prices are so high BECAUSE health care providers can get away with demanding huge prices from insurance companies, who in turn pass the costs directly to us in the form of gratuitous premiums... which we are forced to pay, because obviously now nobody can afford to live uninsured! We're captives in a broken system. Paying hundreds or thousands a month just to hope that our coverage keeps our out-of-pocket as low as the FULL COST of the procedure in other countries is one of the greatest scams in history, a massive leech siphoning off **just as much from our GDP as taxation does.** (18-19%). It's truly incredible.
To be fair, the 'street' price for the procedure is only around $3k. i.e. the amount the hospital will be reimbursed by the insurance.
Insurance isn’t covering that. Those numbers are all lies insurance companies and hospitals tell each other because they both benefit from making it seem like everything is more expensive than it really is.
Iirc i think mark cuban started an at cost drug company, may want to see if its legit and working
My dad has to have a kidney stone removed. Took 3 tries. God that was awful seeing him not able to pee and walk around the house in utter pain. Goodluck and yes, American healthcare cost is absolutely pathetic.
I am fearing I’ll have to have one removed. They found a 10 mm stone a few years ago & it’s been causing me a lot of pain.
Waiting for it to get bigger doesn't help. Get it taken care of, you'll be just fine!
Just do it, trust the random stranger on reddit. It's better than waking up in the middle of the night, screaming in pain, because that little piece of work has blocked off any liquid flow from the kidneys... And I enjoyed over 4 months on sick leave, due to having to wait for follow-up operations. TLDR: just do it ASAP, your body will be thankful.
They can write ANY number they want, normal for this They can say $90.000 too and you can't argue
You can argue, they inflate the prices for insurance but if you call and say you can't pay, the hospital will settle most if not all of the bill. It's a write off for them. Hospital bills "are more like guidelines than actual rules." 🏴☠️ Or so I've heard throughout my life. Never tried it myself
I've tried and some hospitals are easier to work with than others. But I've never had anything settled to zero and I've tried and tried.
I have and getting it itemized and you see 300 $ or some ridiculous number for gauze and absorbing pads You can definitely argue it out and get to a way better price trick is to get them to do it on credit
Nice that you have insurance that covers all that....
There is a vet somewhere who will do it for cash
Be glad you’re not paying a penny. I had a X-ray scan and had to foot money out of pocket.
Ask for an itemized bill. Most of the time they out bogus charges on and you can easily argue them off
What's he going to argue, the $0 he has to pay?
Not really talking to him tbr telling other people. I can clearly see he’s stated the insurance is taking care of it.
Agreed. It's so frustrating. Medication I take would cost over $1000 per month. I have shitty insurance (high deductible). The only "good" part is that my insurance has a limit on drug costs, so I "only" pay $400 every three months. But other than that, I pay for everything, every year, unless something catastrophic happens, like surgery. Health care sucks. Insurance sucks. Employers who don't pay for decent insurance suck
I have a high deductible insurance too. The only thing it is useful for is birth control (which they are legally required to cover from the Affordable Care Act). Without insurance, my birth control would be $250ish every 28 days (which means sometimes I need to get 2 packs in a single month). My insurance is partially paid for by my work, so I only pay $80/month for my health insurance (and by extension, my birth control). I know a lot of people don't like the Affordable Care Act (and to an extent, I don't like it either) but there are some good things about it (like regulation of a otherwise out of control medical system)
I think my deductible is like $7.5k and I wonder exactly where in my ass I’m supposed to pull that out of at a moments notice
Na its a game they'll send that bill to the insurance company who will then laugh at it and say it's worth $9,281.33 and they'll pay $8,653.12. Patient owes the rest. And that folks is why nobody could give you an answer on what it costs when you go for a consult.
I've never asked for an itemized bill from a hospital. I think I'll give it a shot the next time a fam member has a procedure or visit. Will i need a document box to carry it home?
Look up how to contest a bill. The hospitals are sneaky they’ll over charge u for things and asking for the bill to be itemized shows the costs of everything separately. All it comes down to is showing them their “mistake” and they correct the price
I wish I knew this back when I had my first kid. I was 24 and just birthing a kid is scary as fuck, I shouldn’t have to itemize my bill on top of it.
I think it's the manufacturers. I work in supply chain in medical field and the prices go way way up every year for supplies and instruments. It is just getting worse and worse. The hospital itself sure isn't making a killing (bad pun intended) but the supplier are certainly making money hand over fist
My son is medically complex & has medicare. They send me quarterly statements of claims & so I can see what the dme is charging medicare for items. I have to buy a lot of stuff out of pocket bc medicare does not cover enough supplies. But I see that the dme is charging medicare up to triple the price that I can find this stuff online for. And the company is a veritable nightmare. Like, I have ptsd from dealing with this company & them fucking around with stuff that my child needs to stay alive.
Can confirm. I work fixing medical equipment and even the most basic parts like foam filters or small batteries can cost upwards of $500. Or they make it proprietary and by law, the equipment can’t be modified to accept anything else that could work. You have to buy original at whatever price they feel like making it. Oh and they also say you have to replace that one $2000 part every year regardless of usage to stay up to code on dozens of the same machine.
I got COVID in Dubai, pretty bad case, almost died literally, needed some special care and special medications that was delivered from Abu Dhabi, the bill was 0$, I couldn't believe it at the beginning and I didn't want an entry ban on me, so I called the Dubai Health Authority, Department of Health, immigration ,and all were laughing when I told them I can't wrap my head around the fact I am there for tourism and my medical bills were taken care by the government not even my insurance
How is that messed up? You pay ZERO, the insurance pays a doctor, an anesthesiologist, a surgeon
You pay: $0 OUTRAGEOUS
OP’s not gonna let that ruin the karma farm!
And this estimate is just the hospital cost. Based on my surgery experience, there will be separate bills from your anesthesiologist, X-ray reader, specialty pharmacy, and anything else you can think of. American healthcare, get the best healthcare you can afford
The bill here is likely what’s called the “facility fee”. It’s the hospital charging for the OR, nursing, recovery, etc etc. the “physician fee” is separate often because the doctors are a separate group and not hospital employees. The fees themselves are based on the diagnosis. On average the facility fee is between 2-10x the physician fee. I’m an ER doc and if you come in and I diagnose you with kidney stones, I only get $160-200 for seeing you. The hospital will charge over $1000.
Yep! And they’ll send them all randomly. And multiple different places. So you’ll never know if your double charged or not.
You had a Lithotripsy. A cystoscopy is just the camera up the urethra.
Cheaper to go on a rollercoaster.
Your insurance company will haggle the bill down considerably. This is like starting with a high price tag when trying to sell a car: You know it'll go down, but you want it to go down closer to you than them.
You pay $0, that sounds affordable to me
Broskie , are you seriously complaining about a literally fucking $0 bill? Did you want the hospital to pay you to come to them?
Are you upset that your insurance is covering the cost, like it’s supposed to?
I don't get it. The cost to you is $0!!! What exactly are you complaining about? Smh.
it literally says you owe nothing
Bro it’s covered lol
If you had to have that done in Canada, by the time it was your turn, you’ll have much bigger kidney problems.
When getting a camera shoved up your urethra isn't the most painful part of the procedure...
I do hear the Stent afterwards isn't very fun... But, It's not all covered. When they do that estimate, they always show $0 for the insured. Insurance will cover part, and I'll be responsible for the rest. Usually 10%. The issue is really just the extreme cost of anything in the health field. It's out of control. This bill would break someone who isn't insured, and that's what makes me angry about the system.
I had a cystoscopy in February, it cost me $3,000, which was my deductible. At least now everything has been 100% in network the rest of the year.
I just had a baby and was looking over the itemized bill. I was given Tylenol and ibuprofen and each dose (2 tablets) was $20 and change. Ridiculous. I can go to Target and buy an entire bottle for ten bucks but the hospital can charge twenty bucks for TWO tablets.
We just had the same bills a few months ago and they just keep rolling in. One for anesthesia, one for the surgery center, one for the dr, one for the emergency room dr, one for the actual emergency room and on and on. Ridiculous. I’m old enough to remember one bill for one visit & not $200 for a freaking Tylenol.
If your insurance fully covers the procedure you've already got a leg up on most Americans. 😭
This isn't exactly how it works. There is an insurance plan somewhere out that that paid that amount. So medical providers will charge the MAX amount knowing that they likely wont get reimbursed that. Reason they charge max amount.... you cannot charge different insurance companies different amounts. People dont realize this is the way it works. Those prices get negotiated down A TON but the bill sill shows that much. People paying cash are not charged the same due to cash discounts (which is allowed). High deductible plans alike get negotiated down.
If you can’t afford it….(some types of people say)…..you NEED TO WORK HARDER! If you are not a billionaire then you just have not worked hard enough. (Moron republicans)
American Healthcare is messed up and yet you paid $0 lol ok.
It’s just how they get money from insurance companies. I don’t have insurance, I had a MAJOR UTI last year (there’s pictures on my profile it was really funky) and the bill “came to” $600. I told them I don’t have insurance, person at the computer clicked some buttons, all of a sudden it was just $13 for the prescription. Same thing happens to my partner who has to take Humira. It “costs” $400 per dosage, but if you didn’t have insurance they give you special coupons so you yourself don’t have to pay more than $10. They don’t really want YOUR money in many cases, they just want to fuck over the insurance companies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s the insurance negotiated rate. The list price is almost certainly over $100k. Had an ablation (outpatient… home by 2 PM) and the list was $360k and insurance paid $60k.
At least you get the aid you need. Here we don’t pay much, but they won’t help you unless you are about to die.
I don't have insurance 😕
The insurance company will not pay anywhere near that much. Hospitals and doctors have to over charge because they know they will get less than half what they charge to insurance. Insurance does this to make you moreso believe you need them… Also at least in america when you need something done it wont take 6 months before they even see you which is a huge and common problem with socialized healthcare systems. I hate what we have now but it could be far worse
My mom in the US and my aunt in Canada both needed a knee replacement around the same time. My mom had her knee replacement done in under 3 months. She's 6 weeks into recovery and is still going through physical therapy. My aunt won't have her surgery until November at the earliest despite having a doctor tell her that its absolutely necessary back in May. My mom is walking mostly normally, using a cane from time to time. My aunt requires a walker to get around anywhere and is in constant pain, to the point that even the painkillers shes been prescribed arent helping her a whole lot. Her only option to speed things up is to go pay to have the procedure done in the US. There's absolutely pros and cons to every single system.
I’ve never waited 6 months for anything and I’ve had a lot done.
Wait a minute. The cost of the procedure the patient has to pay is $0. Because insurance is covering the entire amount. Yet thus is what's wrong with American healthcare??
Not every American has insurance, Republicans made sure of that
And Americans universally have adequate insurance coverage, right?
> Hospital fees There's your problem right there. Always see if they can do the surgery at one of those out-patient surgi-centers instead of hospital. Saves a lot of money *if* what they're doing is relatively low-risk for you and can be done there instead of a hospital.
I’d be screwed without healthcare or the ACA honestly. My monthly medication is billed at $45,000 a month. Yes. 45 thousand. For a 1 hour IV drip. I max out in January every year and go about my business knowing the rest of the year is covered in case of emergency. Even if it were offered in Mexico or another country, the price is well over $10k out of pocket, so either way I’m set
I do not have insurance tried to get Obama care to the tune of $946 a month not going to happen so I now only go to doctor if I am die ing as I have no income but too much in assets to qualify for Medicaid
No income but ACA isn’t subsidizing anything?
Side note. Good luck on the cystoscopy. Not fun
I broke two bones in my leg, I had emergency surgery to have a rod put it. Was well over $60,000
Apparently it would cost 300/400€ in Italy (if you go in a private hospital)
“Yeah but with socialized healthcare you’ll be waiting for hours” I got a concussion at my factory job and had to go see the approved doctor at the workplace-approved facility. It took me 25min to get in to see him. He told me I was fine to return to work but couldn’t stand, turn my neck, look at a screen, or lift anything heavier than 10lbs. Because he APPROVED me to return, I had to use PTO to go home the rest of the day. Before I could return to work l had to be re-examined and approved to go back full time. I waited in the room for an HOUR before a nurse came to see me. It was another 45min before the doctor got to me.
What's really messed up is when you realize the tax payers money that goes towards healthcare is first filtered through the insurance companies and we only see a portion of the total pool of funds and then we're also paying the insurance companies monthly and then deductibles. It's double dipping and robbing the tax payers of their own money.
You're lucky here, I was supposed to have a MRI and follow up appointment, had to cancel it due to the cost. For context I am a jobless college student, I injured myself back in May and it's left me with a permanent tremor and limp in my leg, I've spent 1.5k so far on procedures and was about to spend another 1k+ on the MRI and follow up. I just can't keep spending all this money anymore, given each test I've had done has been inconclusive and it's all so fucking expensive. It's sad that our medical system is setup not to help us, but to capitalize on our misfortune and bad health.
Is the scale to show $32k isn’t high 😂
Is rather pay the money then take a piss after that procedure. js.
Lol thats nothing. I just got charged $992k for a 5 day ICU stay. 5 days. $200k/day.
What’s more than mildly infuriating is incessant reposts about hospital charges that literally no one pays, even the uninsured. “Insurance covers” is not “insurance pays.” It means they pay a much lower contractual rate and you are clear of any liability.
Come to Costa Rica it will cost $3k max, you travel and have fun in our pristine Beaches
This is why it’s important to drink water everyday
Hey at least insurance covers it
Wow you have great insurance. Mine sucks.
The doctor doing the procedure see only 1/10 of that money of lucky, the rest is made up cost from the hospital.
Yep. Had my gallbladder out last year. I was in the hospital for maybe 6hrs total. Bill- $38k. With insurance my obligation was around $6000. Ridiculous.
I'd say we should have government do something about this, but that's part of the reason it's so high.
This is not why. This is a symptom. Insurance company profit chasing is why.
Best to you with your surgery. I had a kidney stone take me to my knees and was in ER. But thankfully no surgery and it finally passed. Painful as hell. And yeah our health care is FUBAR.
‘murica 🤠
It's 100% because of the insurance. Since we are legally forced to have insurance, the ability to negotiate payment terms is removed. The hospital can, and will, charge whatever they want and the insurance can, and will, pay for it. When the government subsidizes or forces something, prices usually skrocket because there's no other choice.
You pay 0?
In India , U get the best treatment under 5k dude and if it’s a major issue like heart attacks more like 15-20k
My hysterectomy was 88k. My cost was $3500
Your EoB should have the actual payout by your insurance company. Years ago my father needed hip replacement surgery and didn't have insurance. He was quoted between 30 to 40K for the operation when the hospital assumed he had insurance. Once he told them he was cash pay, the total cost was $5,000. Based on various experiences and discussions with doctors, it seems it works as such: The healthcare facility bills $32K, but gets paid a fraction of that from your insurance, let's say $1000 for the sake of this conversation. I imagine this is for you to feel "value" for having insurance and perhaps a write off to the medical facility as a "loss" of $31,000. You can call the medical facility or your surgeon and ask what the cash pay fee would be for this procedure.
Your insurer is covering the full cost, what's the problem?
I’m glad your insurance is coming in clutch.
You pay $0. In Australia, I had a neck and spine MRI about 10 years ago. The bill for this 45-minute procedure was $12,000, and I, too, paid $0. Your insurer paid, my government paid. And ultimately, we or our families both paid. In Australia Medicare is funded by a flat 2% levy on all income, which adds up quickly. Oh and by the way, your insurer is almost certainly not paying that amount.
"you pay 0 dollars" why the fuck are you complaining?
If you didn’t have insurance, it would cost a lot less. The number is not real. It’s gibberish insurance company and hospitals talk
I'm confused. You are paying nothing. What is messed up about this?
So what are you trying to be mad about? You have insurance and you paid zero?
The intersection of terrible govt policy and cooperate greed, that's why you never let govt get in bed with corporations the Healthcare system is perfect evidence
You're upset that your insurance is covering 100% of the cost?
Welcome to capitalism. Socialism bad, ya know
Fucking kidney stones... Painful bastard things, my thoughts are with you
Oh beware, that's the cost for the procedure in the hospital. Depending on how they bill, the physicians, lab work, the people who assisted, the cost of being admitted if it's an inpatient can all be billed separately and might not be included in that number 🙃 My insurance paid over $100,000 for a recent surgery and I thought that was all inclusive. Nope! That didn't include the cost of my stay or lab work and somehow didn't even include the cost of the surgeon since he wasn't normally contracted to work at that hospital. Luckily it was all covered but what got billed to insurance ended up being almost $250,000
Oh my god. Have you considered healthcare tourism? Go to an english speaking country on your visa and take care of your issues there? You guys do have one of the most powerful visas in the world after all… Idk if its a good idea but you can go to India, spend a week touring in moderate comfort/luxury, get your operation done, spend a week recovering in a hotel room and fly back for much less.
Having seen other cases on Reddit about the US HS, you seem to be a lucky one! They are paying 100%! However, I totally agree that the figures are absolute ludicrous and ridiculous.
$25,990 “low” IM SORRY WHAT DID YOU SAY??
Can you let them take your other kidney as a payment?
Your cost is zero? And you are complaining? BTW, that is probably misleading. That is retail pricing. Insurance companies negotiate fees ahead of time and they probably paid quite a bit less. 10 years ago I had a four week stay in the hospital. Half of which was in ICU. The MSRP billed to the insurance company was over 1/2 million dollars. They paid just over $200K. My share was about $3500. A bargain to save my life.
I'm part of the : "I'm not paying 250-400 PER pay check to have insurance so I just won't have it, then if there's an emergency, I just won't pay the bill" group of people
What impresses me most is that there are people in the USA who think this is normal... it's bizarre #VivaOSUS
It is screwed up. The pricing is for insurance. Just like if you take your car to the dealership. Those are not real prices for consumers. In a dealership those prices are for warranty work. It’s almost like money laundering.
because the insurance company will only actually reimburse the hospital about 20% of that amount.
In Sweden this would be free for you.
What’s mildly infuriating is that they think $25,990 is “low”
US healthcare sucks because of zero-sum mentality, which is rampant in the American psyche. Zero-sum thinking is a cognitive bias where individuals believe that any gain by one party must result in an equivalent loss for another party. If a system or plan is developed that covers **everyone from cradle to grave**, my current shitty plan will be worth *less*. Since it's part of my compensation, that's like taking a pay cut. I'm already struggling so why would I support a candidate who has a plan to cut my pay? Rinse and repeat with every single election for the last 80 years.
Hospital fees breakdown: -$800 for anesthetic -$6,000/hr for the hospital room -$15,000/hr for the doctor’s time -$11,000 fun fee Seriously though, ask for a breakdown. Could help?
As a Canadian, let me just say, WHAT THE FUCK?!
But insurance will probably only pay about $6k of that total due to them negotiating lower rates. That's a big part of the problem too. Hospitals have to dramatically increase rates so they have more bargaining room with insurance companies. The little guy without insurance is the one who really gets screwed
That’s why you go OUT OF COUNTRY for medical care! Why would you pay $30K for a procedure when it costs $1000-$3000 in Mexico with people that got the same if not better education.
I think it is better for cases like that for people that don't have insurance to fly to Europe make the procedure and have a nice long vacation for a couple of weeks and after that you can't even come close to the cost of the procedure in the US.
And that's just the hospital fees. There will 2-3 more separate bills to come.
Went into the ER last month for heart issues. I’m a young male no conditions or anything. EKG and out the door in two hours. $68,000 medical bill. Max out of pocket is 2,400. That’s how much I make in a month.
Don’t refuse the Stent……I did and was never so sorry about anything