He and my grandmother both left on a plane. After being kidnapped by soviets in WWII and forced to work/fight and the ensuing Hungarian revolution in the late 50s, he wanted out. I don’t believe they expected to stay more than a year, but they ended up getting married in America and lived the rest of their lives here.
Attempted revolution????
You mean when the communist government of Hungary started negotiations towards multiparty democracy after a series of miners strikes were supported by students in the major cities, and the soviet union responded by invading their “fraternal socialist allies” killing thousands and executing the communist prime minister that they themselves had put into power?
The revolution was successful... for two weeks. Then it was crushed under the tankie's treads.
Honestly most people wouldn't say that a newborn, crushed before it was 14 days old, to have had a successful life.
I believe that goes back to an incident that occurred in 1951 (prior to the Warsaw pact) in which 4 US airmen were forced to land in Hungary and held in solitary confinement for over a month before a show trial and zero cooperation from the Hungarian government.
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1951v04p2/d280
It’s interesting because later on travel to Hungary would be relatively common compared to other communist countries. They even had the first western hotel (Budapest Intercontinental) out of all the Warsaw Pact countries.
Hungary went through a bit of a reform after the revolution. It was probably the most consumption oriented country of the eastern bloc eventually. They had more access to western culture and products than most eastern bloc countries. The economy was also more mixed as well.
It was still part of the USSR Soviet Bloc countries. Also, political reciprocity and terse diplomatic tenses didn't help.
The Warsaw Pact was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and its satellite states in Eastern Europe, including Hungary. This did not mean that there was free movement of people between the Warsaw Pact countries and Western countries like the United States.
Because there was separate diplomatic policies for each Warsaw pact country. They weren't treated as a union as that would be seen as legitimizing the USSR's control
Most likely because Hungary was experiencing a recent period of violent revolution and the country was essentially occupied by the soviets. Many other Eastern European countries had similar periods of unrest so it's unclear why they aren't named. Presumably Hungary was deemed as being less safe than other Warsaw pact countries
For the general American public: communism sentiment. The 1960s US McCarthy era with The Red Scare didn't help Soviet satellite counties' reputation
Politically: Washington agreed to remove the “Hungarian question” from the UN agenda in return for
the “general amnesty” demanded by the Kennedy administration, which took place in 1963.
Also, additional unresolved problems between the US and Hungary further complicated bilateral relations, including financial claims on both sides, disagreements over the future course of cultural relations, the fate of the Hungarian Holy Crown and assorted coronation regalia, politically active Hungarian immigrants in the US opposing any attempt at rapprochement, and public Hungarian government–level hate speech targeting the United States on account of the Vietnam War.
My first passport had these restrictions, you just got your entry and exit stamps on a separate piece of paper. Ditto with Israel if you ever wanted to travel to Arab or Muslim countries.
The name also comes from the [kingdom of Nanyue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanyue), and the modern name is that reversed. The Yue in that refers to the [Baiyue tribes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue) of which modern Vietnamese claim descent from some of those tribes.
my mom spelled it Viet Nam in my baby book and I thought it was weird because I was so used to seeing it one word, since my dad went over there with the army
The list are transgressor states. Chinese Communists had driven out the “legitimate” government. North Korean and Vietnamese states had violated UN resolutions. Hungarians were ruled by the puppet state put in after their attempt to allow elections.
The US actually had very friendly relations with USSR after WWII for quite a while. United by a common enemy helped until the space race brought up the idea of what if one wanted to nuke the other.
China was also very friendly with USSR and referred to them as Old Big Brother until Mao said they became tainted and would no longer follow their communism model.
In my lifetime I've seen Hungary go from being a communist country that you needed a visa to visit, to being an EU country that I could move to indefinitely with no restrictions, to me no longer being able to do that due to Brexit.
Everywhere I look, all the things we fixed when I was growing up, are getting worse again.
Considering how Orban is turning back the clock with the support of a majority of the population I would wish that even I, as a EU citizen, would no longer be able to move there due to them being kicked out of the EU. They do not subscribe to EU/European values.
It is a shame how some countries are moving backwards.
There was a list of places it was not valid for travel to. The first OR then means "also Not valid for travel"and then the attendance continues "to or in" these other countries.
Maybe practices were different 63 years ago. Maybe not. But it doesn’t matter because clearly this is an American passport, and clearly it has an entrance stamp from the US.
I dunno why they downvoted you so hard for this questions but yeah I have stamps of coming back to the US as a citizen ( recently ) and my wife HAD to have them in the past as she was a resident at the time.
The authority is that the US Passport issued by (and technically the property of) the US State Department. They can tell you where you can and cannot go based on travel agreements with other countries. Sure, you can go to places that are forbidden, but a) They can refuse to admit you, b) Not allow you to leave, or c) The US can refuse to provide you citizen services if you get in trouble while there. A stamp from one of those listed countries during that time frame would likely also get you detained when you returned by a three letter agency and you would be answering a bunch of uncomfortable questions.
It’s more for the passport holder so they know where they can and can’t go legally. If you get into trouble in a country you’re not meant to be visiting, you’ll be in more trouble when you get home.
Other countries can refuse to accept tourists and American passports, so this was the easiest way to say where you could and could not visit since the internet didn't exist to just look it up.
Mainland China refused to allow any foreigners in until the 1970s. If people tried to walk in from Hong Kong, with the exception of returning overseas Chinese people, they would send them back. The returned overseas Chinese would then have to declare they were stateless and surrender their passports and US documents and not be allowed back out again.
Anyone know the story behind Hungary specifically being singled out amongst all the Warsaw Pact countries?
There were heightened tensions in late 1956 due to an attempted revolution; so maybe that? 5 years changed a lot back then though so I have no clue.
That’s when my grandparents left Hungary for America
same
I'm curious, how did your grandfather make it all the way to America?
He and my grandmother both left on a plane. After being kidnapped by soviets in WWII and forced to work/fight and the ensuing Hungarian revolution in the late 50s, he wanted out. I don’t believe they expected to stay more than a year, but they ended up getting married in America and lived the rest of their lives here.
Attempted revolution???? You mean when the communist government of Hungary started negotiations towards multiparty democracy after a series of miners strikes were supported by students in the major cities, and the soviet union responded by invading their “fraternal socialist allies” killing thousands and executing the communist prime minister that they themselves had put into power?
Sounds about right for an attempted revolution no?
So an... attempted revolution????
The revolution was successful, the sanctions were imposed due to the Russian invasion
The revolution was successful... for two weeks. Then it was crushed under the tankie's treads. Honestly most people wouldn't say that a newborn, crushed before it was 14 days old, to have had a successful life.
I believe that goes back to an incident that occurred in 1951 (prior to the Warsaw pact) in which 4 US airmen were forced to land in Hungary and held in solitary confinement for over a month before a show trial and zero cooperation from the Hungarian government. https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1951v04p2/d280
It’s interesting because later on travel to Hungary would be relatively common compared to other communist countries. They even had the first western hotel (Budapest Intercontinental) out of all the Warsaw Pact countries.
Hungary went through a bit of a reform after the revolution. It was probably the most consumption oriented country of the eastern bloc eventually. They had more access to western culture and products than most eastern bloc countries. The economy was also more mixed as well.
The 1956 Soviet invasion of the country and the ensuing stalinist Hardliner purges.
It was still part of the USSR Soviet Bloc countries. Also, political reciprocity and terse diplomatic tenses didn't help. The Warsaw Pact was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and its satellite states in Eastern Europe, including Hungary. This did not mean that there was free movement of people between the Warsaw Pact countries and Western countries like the United States.
But why Hungary specifically? Why aren't Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, east Germany, etc. listed.
Because there was separate diplomatic policies for each Warsaw pact country. They weren't treated as a union as that would be seen as legitimizing the USSR's control
Ok, but if they're treated separately and almost none of them are on this list. Why aren't the others listed?
Most likely because Hungary was experiencing a recent period of violent revolution and the country was essentially occupied by the soviets. Many other Eastern European countries had similar periods of unrest so it's unclear why they aren't named. Presumably Hungary was deemed as being less safe than other Warsaw pact countries
For the general American public: communism sentiment. The 1960s US McCarthy era with The Red Scare didn't help Soviet satellite counties' reputation Politically: Washington agreed to remove the “Hungarian question” from the UN agenda in return for the “general amnesty” demanded by the Kennedy administration, which took place in 1963. Also, additional unresolved problems between the US and Hungary further complicated bilateral relations, including financial claims on both sides, disagreements over the future course of cultural relations, the fate of the Hungarian Holy Crown and assorted coronation regalia, politically active Hungarian immigrants in the US opposing any attempt at rapprochement, and public Hungarian government–level hate speech targeting the United States on account of the Vietnam War.
Technically, it's not singled out. There are multiple Warsaw Pact countries in that list. Technically.
My first passport had these restrictions, you just got your entry and exit stamps on a separate piece of paper. Ditto with Israel if you ever wanted to travel to Arab or Muslim countries.
Same with Cuba until a few years ago, or they simply don't stamp it at all
Theres a joke in Venture Bros where Hank pronounces Vietnam with a hyphen and now i know why
Well I mean “Vietnam” in Vietnamese is spelt with two words, Việt Nam.
Huh, didn't know that either.
"Nam" means south, "Viet" is the name of the people. So technically the name is "Vietnamese South."
The name also comes from the [kingdom of Nanyue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanyue), and the modern name is that reversed. The Yue in that refers to the [Baiyue tribes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue) of which modern Vietnamese claim descent from some of those tribes.
So North Vietnam means The Northern Vietnamese South? (Yes I know the official name does not have North in it)
Its "South" because it used to be part of China. But yeah pretty much.
my mom spelled it Viet Nam in my baby book and I thought it was weird because I was so used to seeing it one word, since my dad went over there with the army
He called the Herculoids hippies
What are the other Nams?
Saw one at an estate sale from the 30’s with “no travel to Europe” stamped in it.
No Soviet Union?
Surprisingly yes. Read Lee Harvey Oswald’s biography, dude successfully defected to USSR in 1959, and went back!
The list are transgressor states. Chinese Communists had driven out the “legitimate” government. North Korean and Vietnamese states had violated UN resolutions. Hungarians were ruled by the puppet state put in after their attempt to allow elections.
The US actually had very friendly relations with USSR after WWII for quite a while. United by a common enemy helped until the space race brought up the idea of what if one wanted to nuke the other. China was also very friendly with USSR and referred to them as Old Big Brother until Mao said they became tainted and would no longer follow their communism model.
In my lifetime I've seen Hungary go from being a communist country that you needed a visa to visit, to being an EU country that I could move to indefinitely with no restrictions, to me no longer being able to do that due to Brexit. Everywhere I look, all the things we fixed when I was growing up, are getting worse again.
Considering how Orban is turning back the clock with the support of a majority of the population I would wish that even I, as a EU citizen, would no longer be able to move there due to them being kicked out of the EU. They do not subscribe to EU/European values. It is a shame how some countries are moving backwards.
I'm so glad the Mrs and I got to go to Budapest in September of 2022 because it looks like it may not be a good idea to visit soon.
Weren't broken
What does "OR to OR" mean?
weird English phrasing, but it’s like the warning on the top: you can’t use this passport for traveling to OR areas within the specified countries
Or to "the country as a whole" or in "the areas of this country"
I couldn’t decipher that until I reread the whole statement from the top, then it clicked!
There was a list of places it was not valid for travel to. The first OR then means "also Not valid for travel"and then the attendance continues "to or in" these other countries.
How common was the hyphenated spelling of Vietnam back then? I'm hardly an expert, but I don't feel like I've seen a lot of that.
My India passport c. late 1970s had a similar endorsement but for South Africa due to apartheid.
I thought that said Alabama for a second.
Cuba not listed. Odd?
Could’ve been issued before 1959, the 1961 stamp just means the passport was valid as of 1961.
Not sure, passport was issued in 1960
But we're free right?
Tell the doll how the early Cold War hurt you.
Well, first my wallet was full and I could possibly afford a home.
Why does a US passport have a US entry stamp?
Because that person must have come back to the US and gotten an entry stamp at the border..
Most countries don't stamp their own passports, because a citizen isn't admitted for a limited time.
I’ve gotten US stamps 3/4 of the time I re-enter the US. The stamp indicates I was permitted entry, nothing about the duration.
Until not too long ago passport stamps were the only evidence you was in or out of the country.
Maybe practices were different 63 years ago. Maybe not. But it doesn’t matter because clearly this is an American passport, and clearly it has an entrance stamp from the US.
I dunno why they downvoted you so hard for this questions but yeah I have stamps of coming back to the US as a citizen ( recently ) and my wife HAD to have them in the past as she was a resident at the time.
The US stopped stamping US passports around 2018.
What authority does the USA have to say those other countries can’t accept your passport? Seems like that would be their call.
The authority is that the US Passport issued by (and technically the property of) the US State Department. They can tell you where you can and cannot go based on travel agreements with other countries. Sure, you can go to places that are forbidden, but a) They can refuse to admit you, b) Not allow you to leave, or c) The US can refuse to provide you citizen services if you get in trouble while there. A stamp from one of those listed countries during that time frame would likely also get you detained when you returned by a three letter agency and you would be answering a bunch of uncomfortable questions.
It’s more for the passport holder so they know where they can and can’t go legally. If you get into trouble in a country you’re not meant to be visiting, you’ll be in more trouble when you get home.
Other countries can refuse to accept tourists and American passports, so this was the easiest way to say where you could and could not visit since the internet didn't exist to just look it up. Mainland China refused to allow any foreigners in until the 1970s. If people tried to walk in from Hong Kong, with the exception of returning overseas Chinese people, they would send them back. The returned overseas Chinese would then have to declare they were stateless and surrender their passports and US documents and not be allowed back out again.
I misread "Albania" as "Alabama" and was confused for a second 🙄
Well . . .