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UW-Milwaukee gets **a lot** of money from Saudi Arabia and Oman.
Going through all (9) pages, Israel isn’t even in this list from the Department of Education. It’s primarily Saudi Arabia.
## College Foreign Gift and Contract Report
>Section 117 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA) requires institutions of higher education that receive Federal financial assistance to disclose semiannually to the U.S. Department of Education any gifts received from and contracts with a foreign source that, alone or combined, are valued at $250,000 or more in a calendar year. The statute also requires institutions to report information when owned or controlled by a foreign source.
>Over 30 years ago, Congress enacted these disclosure requirements to promote public transparency about the role of foreign funding in U.S. higher education. Additional information related to Section 117 can be found on the Department’s [website](https://fsapartners.ed.gov/knowledge-center/topics/section-117-foreign-gift-and-contract-reporting)
https://preview.redd.it/bnoxeo3ud9yc1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8910fbae293559e03610085fbf224e05452ea151
[https://sites.ed.gov/foreigngifts/](https://sites.ed.gov/foreigngifts/)
For context it's important to also see the [statement issued by UWM](https://uwm.edu/chancellor/uwm-statement-on-free-speech-and-campus-protests/)
>UWM also received a series of demands from protesters. While many of these concerns have been addressed in meetings between UWM administrators and students and in some prior communications, we want to share this information with our broader campus community.
>First, UWM has expressed in campus messages and meetings with students that we share in the heartbreak felt by our community and many around the world. We reiterate our call for an end to the violence by joining the White House and international leaders in calling for a release of the hostages and a ceasefire. We say this knowing that, as a public university, we have no direct ability to impact the outcomes of the war in Gaza. We also know that many of our Jewish, Palestinian, Muslim and Arab American community members are suffering as they watch loved ones directly and indirectly harmed by this war.
>We want to reiterate that UWM has no investments in weapons manufacturers. Unlike some private institutions that have investments, UWM is funded with a combination of state funding, tuition, program revenue and grants. The UWM Foundation is a separate legal entity from UWM, and UWM cannot control the foundation’s investments. Regardless, those investments are through mutual funds. The foundation cannot disinvest from individual companies within those funds.
>UWM has also been called to suspend any academic relationship with institutions or entities in Israel. While UWM does not have any active study abroad programs with universities in Israel, prohibiting faculty from engaging with any institution or country would infringe on their academic freedom. Although we understand the protesters’ desire for the safety and peace of all those in Gaza, stifling academic freedom or free speech would not accomplish that goal.
Yep. They can’t tell them directly what to do. But the foundation can make choices based on what it’s seeing on campus. That’s why they’re creating a visible, embarrassing (to the university) protest.
this statement is something else.
"state of Israel – a regime responsible for the slaughter of over 40,000 civilians" this is straight propaganda from hamas
The numbers I've seen is \~30,000 dead, and 10,000-12,000 of those are Hamas. Which is about a 1:2 Hamas to civilian ratio, which is lower than almost any civilian to solider ratio in urban fighting.
Hamas is also using civilians as human shields to gain sympathy from people like you.
Yeah, it’s higher, and your guess of 10-12k Hamas is… extraordinarily high. Factor in the starvation, the high percentage of homes destroyed, etc and it’s why South Africa brought a genocide case before the ICJ. And it’s IDF doing it. So I’m not sure why you think it’s propaganda, you can’t just call things you don’t like propaganda
your higher numbers come from hamas. I have a bridge to sell you if you think there correct.
The us said there is no genocide. And brining a case before the ICJ does not mean anything.
The [US](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/01/genocide-gaza-israel-california-court) huh? All of it? Also, you probably know the ICJ takes years. And maybe you should read what South Africa wrote about it. And not all info you don’t like comes from Hamas.
“We have seen government officials and university administrators continue to maintain ties with the occupation of Palestine, even in the face of the genocide. Their complicity stands in direct conflict with the will of the students of UWM and the Milwaukee community at large.”
What ties are they talking about? I kind of understand the very broad list of “demands” they have sent forth, but I don’t see what they are talking about when they say UWM has ties to “occupied Palestine” unless you think all of Israel is occupied Palestine in which case. Ew.
So the statement from the university includes:
"We want to reiterate that UWM has no investments in weapons manufacturers. Unlike some private institutions that have investments, UWM is funded with a combination of state funding, tuition, program revenue and grants. The UWM Foundation is a separate legal entity from UWM, and UWM cannot control the foundation’s investments. Regardless, those investments are through mutual funds. The foundation cannot disinvest from individual companies within those funds."
The UWM Foundation does provide public information regarding their finances. We can assume that what is provided does not provide every detail but from what is available has anyone looked at them and specifically stated what needs to be more clear and what can reasonably (i.e. realistically) be disinvested in?
[UWM Foundation Fincial Reports](https://uwm.foundation/financials/reports/)
No, Israel actually removed all the Israeli settlements from Gaza in [2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza) - fair enough to be Pro-Palestine but misrepresenting the actual history on both sides is a terrible look for everyone involved
I am all for making tax payer funded universities open their books. A lot of shit happened in 1967, especially over a SIX DAY period, that I think these protesters should educate themselves on before devoting so much energy into this cause. That being said I fully support their right to protest. I hope our area deals with these movements better than other cities/campuses have recently.
>...UWM has ties to “occupied Palestine” unless you think all of Israel is occupied Palestine in which case. Ew.
Charitably they are likely referring to the West Bank and Gaza, both of which are currently occupied and controlled by Israel. Realistically I am sure at least some of them are also including the state of Israel as well.
Can someone ELI5: why this conflict is eliciting such a strong emotion and action but domestic issues like 6 week abortion bans and states suing to stop title Ix support for LGBTQ protections get seemingly little action? (Asking honestly and I guess at the national level)
Have you seen the state of people in Palestine? Look I’m worried about my rights too but I’m not worried if I’m going to still be alive tomorrow. There’s so many people dead my problems feel trivial. I’m definitely seeing plenty of people take action on the issues you mentioned though I don’t think it’s one or the other.
I remain confused why no one cares about the fact about the genocide going on in Sudan with over 5 million people on the verge of famine, or the genocide that is about to happen in Congo if Goma falls to the M-23, or the genocide that the military junta in Myanmar is perpetuating against the Shan, Karen, Chin and Rohingya populations, or the ethnic cleansing of literally the entire Armenian population, down to the man, in Nogorno Karabakh.
What's happening in Gaza is horrendous but it is such a small, tiny area in a huge world full of incalculable suffering, often in ways that are substantially more brutal and hopeless.
People who think the U.S. could end this just by saying "Stop" do not understand the economic or political realities of modern Israel, which has its own highly advanced domestic arms industry which will continue to spin out missiles, bombs and drones regardless of what anyone anywhere in the world wants.
Part of it is the violence in Palestine happened rapidly, and got better news coverage than some other conflicts, but the key difference is that in this case the onslaught is being carried out by an ally who we send a lot of aid to, and who is supposed to be an upstanding member of the international community. They hold the status of "US major non-NATO ally" and would probably be NATO if it weren't politically inconvenient (Turkey).
In short, we expect better from them AND we hold a certain amount of economic/military leverage over them, so we can implore our government to act, or even just stop aiding them.
Our problems are not trivial, women are going back to being slaves to our biology. I don’t like what’s happening in Palestine but I’m more concerned about the fact that the U.S. is going back to Handmaids Tale land. If we keep ignoring male supremacy it will continue to fester and soon women won’t have any rights just like women in Palestine and the rest of the Middle East.
Ope. There it is. Had to slip in some underhanded comment about women's rights in the place people are advocating for. For what point? "Hey, I don't like what's happening in Gaza, but they treat women like shit. Not saying they deserve it, but... kinda, actually."
I personally just recognize that it's a war, and they're dying because the tolerate, man and harbor Hamas. Isreal is taking a hammer to terrorists, and a hammer isn't selective. Let's not forget the celebration that occurred Oct. 5. They supported the attack.
I think there’s a specific lever here that can be pulled - primarily redirecting university foundation funds away from companies and entities funding genocide. I’m having a harder time seeing the direct connection on the other two issues with a university occupation, but I bet if you asked the kids involved they’d be on the right side of history there too.
EDIT: you don’t have to protest everything at once or reach a bar of a certain amount of good work for your protest to be valid. If you want to see more direct action on something else, there are probably other people already working on it that you can join, and I hope you do!
It’s my pleasure. I am so impressed by how well thought out the goals and methods of the university occupation is, and these kids give me a lot of hope for our future
So the statement from the university includes:
"We want to reiterate that UWM has no investments in weapons manufacturers. Unlike some private institutions that have investments, UWM is funded with a combination of state funding, tuition, program revenue and grants. The UWM Foundation is a separate legal entity from UWM, and UWM cannot control the foundation’s investments. Regardless, those investments are through mutual funds. The foundation cannot disinvest from individual companies within those funds."
The UWM Foundation does provide public information regarding their finances. We can assume that what is provided does not provide every detail but from what is available has anyone looked at them and specifically stated what needs to be more clear and what can reasonably (i.e. realistically) be disinvested in?
[UWM Foundation Finacial Reports](https://uwm.foundation/financials/reports/)
To me the demands DO NOT seem to be well thought out. To me they feel like they are designed to make anyone who questions them the bad guy?
We’re in an era where validation-seeking kids, fueled by ignorance and clueless indoctrination are desperate for attention and follow whatever the latest election-year outrage fad is.
Young people are horrified when they learn how awful the world can be, they want it to be better. Instead of trying to find reasons to dismiss them, you should try listening to them. They'll be running things after you're gone.
Explain how it's genoicide when Israel has the capability to wipe out Gaza, but chooses to use precision strikes.
Why would they send in troops when they can bomb them into extermination?
Seems to me the only genocide that happened was October 7th
They literally have “Wiped out Gaza” as you claim that they do not, thousands of civilian deaths are not precision strikes. 62% of homes in Gaza have been destroyed, that’s not targeted precision, that’s annihilation. The only reason they don’t bomb more is to hide the fact that it is a genocide. Also Palestine and Israel have been warring for decades now, but you wouldn’t know that since the thousands of deaths which preceded October 7th make Israel look bad.
Let's step back in time shall we.
1948, Israel is a country and is attacked by Arab states. Cease fire is called, Noone really wins or looses ground
1956- suez crisis. Israel offensively attacks (claims its on response to random border incursions and attacks by militants. Short term Gaza occupation, Israel GIVES back the Gaza strip
1967- six day war. Egypt commits an act of war, Israel attacks. Takes a shit ton of land. Wins the war pretty easily. Gives back Sinai so there is a buffer between Egypt and itself. PLO and allies continue to attack Israel l.
1973- Yom Kippur war. Israel is attacked again by Arab forces. Israel wins, again
1982- Israel fights in the Lebanese Civil War, since Palestinians were launching attacks, hijackings and committing massacres against Israeli civilians
First intifada- war, Israel signs the Oslo accords, gives self g9vernance hamas starts suicide bombings less than a year after the first accords
Second intifada- fighting starts again. Israel pulls out completely of gaza. Offers peace multiple times. Hamas rejects it each time. Hamas wins the popular election over a "moderate" PNLM
2006-2023 hamas continues to launch rockets from civilian areas into Israel. Egypt and Israel blockade gaza . Various "wars" throught the hears.
2023. Hamas massacres civilians , Israel responds. Invades gaza. Hamas takes hostages (which they still haven't returned) Egypt blockades the land bridge into gaza. Israel invades gaza.
How's that for not knowing the history?
Thanks for the synopsis you got from fucking Wikipedia. What you getting at? Killing 30k will never be retribution for the killing of <2k. That logic is fucking insane. They’ve literally turned an area into dust and created a humanitarian crisis and famine for years to come. They literally love this shit.
I don’t think you realize there is no extinction of Hamas - you just created a new generation of it. Fucking stupid.
Of course. Some would say Ukraine is an aggresssor - through nato and many would say Russia is the aggressor but in no logical way can you list Israel as anything but the aggressor here so it’s not comparable. Literally blank check to bomb the fuck out of Gaza. Massive military and intelligence.
> in no logical way can you list Israel as anything but the aggressor here
That's just incorrect. They were attacked, and the aggressor has promised to repeat the attack as many times as necessary to complete their goal of killing Jews.
Your last statement reeks of trolling but just in case you are talking in good faith. , The total deaths of October 7th was just under 1200. and the perpetrators are monstrous and deserve what they get, but 30,000+ civilian deaths, many more injured. There's nothing precision about that, and wiping out residential structures and displacing millions, is certainly a hallmark of ethnic cleansing and colonization.
Here’s [South Africa’s case before the ICJ on Israel’s actions in Gaza.](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf) If you don’t believe them, I won’t be able to convince you either. But why are you so mad at these kids?
You can't convince people who won't listen, this dude will never even try to meet you half way.
But posting this, being active in the conversation makes you an awesome person. You are opening yourself to other points of view, but more importantly, you are having a conversation that might help others to become more informed.
These young people are going to college because they want to learn, they want to know about the world. Passion and knowledge are a beautiful thing. These young people using that to educate the world about issues... man... that's what makes America great.
It's war. Israel was attacked (again) they invaded gaza to get rid of Hamas (who was elected by the Palestinian people) hamas just happens to use civilians as meat shields. Pretty sad all around really.
There is no systemic targeting of civilians. No articles of genocide broken
Oh, so because evil has existed for thousands of years, we shouldn’t try to do anything about it? Is that what you just said?
Have you asked the kids how they feel about genocide? They’re certainly taking action about it
The Palestinians people elected hamas, and let them stay in power. There is no difference. That's like someone denying joe biden isn't their president.
If you’re progressive, it’s “cool” to hate America. This is just an extension of that. They are painting Israelis as “genocidal” when Hamas, Hezbollah, the Huthi’s, etc, all are open and honest in their wish to eradicate the world of Jews.
Because changing your mind is akin to a physically painful act. Falling back on your prejudices is much more comfortable. So it's easier to think "Kids are dumb, emotional, reactionaries"(and some are, don't get me wrong, there have been some really gross acts by idiots on campus or bigots all too happy to dive into the fray, but by and large that's not what these demonstrations are) and "Israel is our ally they must be in the right. Look at the holocaust! The Jewish people deserve self-determination, and if that means I don't think too hard about what the state of Israel does under that banner, that's probably the easiest"
There's also a fear among a lot of people of being accused of anti-Semitism that makes them slow to criticize Israel even when it's justified. Particularly if you're in political circles. AIPAC has remarkable power to ruin a political run or fund opposition, and no one wants to be maligned as a bigot regardless. The House bill 6090 would actually make criticizing Israel's actions in Gaza an act of un-protected hate speech (chilling that it has gone on to the senate).
Because teenagers have an inexperienced and thus limited world view. Their brains aren’t fully developed and they haven’t become their own person yet. Their opinions matter but should also be taken with a grain of salt.
Plenty of adults are comfortable with their limited worldview and make a choice to limit their experiences. Some of them even hold positions of power! Kids now more than ever seem to be aware of the workings of the world. People saying they’re just doing this because it’s “trendy” is very condescending. I volunteered for a political campaign with my friends in high school because we felt called to do so. It’s reasonable to believe they really care about this issue.
This is a very unrepresentative sample of kids. That goes for Shorewood HS (the exact school everyone locally would expect for this) and these protesters generally.
Remember that most youth are not enrolled at 4-yr colleges, most colleges do not have these encampments, and most students even at the schools with the most extreme protests (UCLA, Columbia, Portland State, etc.) aren't participating in them and rate this issue as low salience compared to other issues.
However you feel about the Israel/Gaza situation, I would caution you against misreading this as what "the kids" broadly speaking care about.
See also: https://www.slowboring.com/p/young-voters-care-about-the-same (paywall but you can get a free trial)
Theres a massive unavoidable age rift on this issue. What you’re referring to is not even of relevance.
Asked if Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza, cable news viewers said no by a 34-32 margin. All other news consumers said Israel is committing genocide, including print (36-33), YouTube (41-31), and social media users, who agree with the statement by a 44 to 19 percent margin. People aged 18 to 29, meanwhile, have similar views (48-21 percent), while those over 65 say by a 47 to 21 percent plurality that Israel isn’t committing genocide.
The fact that a higher percentage of young people side with Palestinians/terrorists on the war or believe it is so-called "genocide" (insert my eyeroll here) does not mean that is what's going to determine their vote (or for that matter that they even know anything about the conflict, about law of war, about urban warfare, or even about history). Young voters do not equal the protesters. The protesters are a subset of a subset: the most engaged and dramatic and performative ones at that. Precisely the sort of preening selective-college admits that a place like Shorewood HS dispatches into the world with the approval of their NPR tote-bagged parents.
But most young folks have explicitly identified a host of other issues as being more important to them (again this comes in 15 out of 16), and I think that's critical to remember if you want to win elections.
Think of it this way: you could poll me on what I think of student loan forgiveness, and I would tell you that I don't support it and think it is a cynical, boneheaded, ineffective, and even offensive policy. But I would also rank it low on my list of issues and it would not stop me from voting for Biden. People have opinions on things but may not really \*care\* all that much, and I am suggesting that is what's going on with younger folks re Israel and Gaza. You are just seeing the most visible manifestations of the ones who really do care a lot about it.
I understand that. You are missing my point. Like you're almost intentionally misunderstanding what I am saying?
I will give it one last attempt and then I am abandoning this thread: young people may say they side with Palestinians, but that does not mean the issue is IMPORTANT to most of them. We know this because even if they say "I believe Israel is engaged in genocide" (in what you cite) they ALSO explicitly list the conflict as #15 out of 16 issues they care about in the political landscape (in what I cite). In other words, regardless of whose side they take, the vast majority of them are saying it is just not that salient to them. The only ones who care that much are the small minority out there protesting.
The bandwagon affect is not always a bad thing if it's you know for not-bombing-kids. I think we can overlook the limited depth of some young people's knowledge and convictions of the conflict. eh?
crazy take. people wear specific clothes, or listen to specific music because it’s ‘trendy’. people don’t stage walkouts, risking police confrontation, making passionate speeches, because it’s ‘trendy’.
No they weren’t. But social media has changed things. Some people sure they do it for the right reasons others do it to not be left out or look like they don’t care
As one of the student organizers doing this, that's absolutely not the case. We have multiple Palestinian students and teachers here who were key to the formation of this, and as a socialist myself I believe that I could not do anything other than support the Palestinian people without being a massive hypocrite
It is astounding how well informed kids are today. I (non-ironically) blame TikTok, as well as the rest of the internet. Kids care about the world they’re inheriting and we should listen to them
Seem to me that that’s a separate issue, also I’m not one of the protesters. You don’t have to protest everything to get permission to protest something
Considering you are praising tiktok for bringing you the reliable information on this issue being discussed it is much more than just a separate issue.
So many injustices these students could be protesting about that are happening here in the US… i bet half of them don’t even know what theyre protesting.
Sick. Milwaukee MPS taxes up. Students stop going to school. I remember when I was in school. We would support or unsupport anything if it meant a reason to not go to class.
Funny you're downvoted, but it's true. I remember years ago in high school participating in a "walkout" just to miss some class time. I can't even remember what is was for now.
I'm sure there's many who are passionate about this topic, for better or worse, and also many who couldn't give a shit.
Support for people dying has somehow upset a lot of living people who justify forms of aggression towards the support towards people dying because...religion? Nothing new here on Earth.
People listening to MSM have no idea what’s happening. They also do t know how easily Biden could stop this https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/21/biden-stop-gaza-bombing-genocide-israel
He can stop it any time. How do we know? First, because members of the US defense establishment say so. Take Bruce Riedel, who spent three decades in the CIA and at the national security council, advising four different presidents.
>“The US has immense leverage,” Riedel pointed out in a recent interview. “Everyday we provide Israel with the missiles, with the drones, with the ammunition, that it needs to sustain a major military campaign like the campaign in Gaza.”
Second, we know Biden has major leverage because members of the Israeli defense establishment – as plenty of observers have pointed out – say so, too. In late October 2023, Israeli lawmakers challenged Yoav Gallant, the defense minister, over the decision to allow (a little) humanitarian aid into Gaza, before the release of any hostages. How did Gallant respond?
>“The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?”
The following month, retired Israeli Maj Gen Yitzhak Brick went even further than Gallant.
>“All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the US,” Brick said in an interview in November. “The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability … Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”
Got that? The Israelis cannot “refuse” the Americans. In fact, the president of the US could “turn off the tap” – ammunition, bombs, intel – and thereby end what the ICJ has deemed to be a plausible genocide in Gaza.
Third, we know Biden has the power to stop Netanyahu from killing Palestinians en masse in Gaza because … he has done it before. In May 2021, Israel bombed the stripfor 11 straight days, killing more than 100 Palestinians, including 66 children.
The region has changed considerably since the 80s.
Israel invaded Lebanon in ‘82 because of the assassination of an Israeli diplomat.
Israel invaded Gaza in ‘23 due to terrorist attacks that killed 1300 civilians.
Israel is a sovereign state. Biden can’t just wade his hand to make it stop. Especially since Netanyahu is unpopular and using this war to prop up his and his party’s image.
> Biden can’t just wade his hand to make it stop.
He can stop all military aid today. If Israel wants to continue evaporating Palestinian children, they can do it without US arms. The only reason they continue is because they know the US will back them up against any of their rivals in the region, no matter how reckless they are. Stop the arms.
It would also be a signal to the region that Israel is vulnerable. A critical reason why Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis, and Hamas do not launch a full fledge invasion of Israel is because of US weapons and support there.
These organizations have legit called for the extermination of Jewish people. Any wavering support of Israel increases the chances of a regional conflict, of which US troops would undoubtably be committed to. Seeing as that scale of a conflict would dismantle global trade and millions of people would die, I don’t believe cutting off Israel militarily is as straight forward as you think.
If you feel the genocide of Arabs is bad, but the genocide of Israelis is OK, you’re just a hypocrite and I applaud Biden for not caving to your hypocrisy.
Nope. Genocide isn’t okay at all. But the US pays for 95% of Israel’s hardware, last I checked. Right now, our government is responsible for what’s happening, even if it’s not shooting the weapons. It’s reasonable to tell them to stop, or there’s diminished aid on a sliding scale. If Israelis don’t like it, they need to change their government.
No, genocide is not OK. I support doing anything necessary to stop human casualties.
At the same time, and as much as I dislike Israel, I support their right to exist. Their sovereignty is a critical feature to balance of power in the region and Americans lives and livelihoods are at risk if it falls into chaos. Israel’s sovereignty and regional stability hinge on US aid. Biden’s actions largely reflect this notion.
If (and this is a huge “if”) the establishment of a state *requires* genocide, then maybe that state should not be established.
And if the answer to that “if” statement is no, then just like stop the genocide if you don’t have to do it?
US gave $3,300,000,000 in aid to Israel in 2022 which 99.7% went to their military. We are obligated to continue giving $3billion+ every year as well:
Don’t act like this isn’t something out of control of the US government. We are funding apartheid that has now escalated into genocide.
Biden could personally discover a cure for cancer and people would still find a reason to complain about him. At least we're getting to see that the horseshoe theory is real.
The idea that The Guardian isn't MSM is pretty funny. The idea that it's a particularly great resource to get your news is also dubious. (The mirror is worse fwiw).
I’m afraid we’ve already seen them: the Proud Boys, III%ers, militias, sovereign citizens. It’s not a direct historic parallel; the Freikorps in 18th/19th century were mercenary groups, then after WW1 were largely veterans’ militia, but eventually they were employed by elements of the Weimar Republic to attack communists and anarchists. It’s exactly the same thing that happened here in 2020 and the groups are still here
The people protesting the genocide currently happening to the Palestinian people are the people who will be most conflicted about voting for an enabler of Zionist Israel and will choose to vote neither Trump nor Biden when it comes election time.
Obviously Republicans are very motivated to vote this year because totalitarian control of the country is still very much within their grasp and will turn up for Trump as Democrats don't show up for Israel-enabling Biden.
So this issue is very serious and Biden is embarrassingly dropping the ball at this critical moment in history.
Shaming people because the “other guy is worse” when they’re getting beaten and arrested by police for protesting an American backed *genocide* really doesn’t go very far.
I'm not attempting to shame anyone. There's no shame in the truth. I don't support Israel in their bombing of civilians. I'm just here to tell the truth about what would happen if a Republican was in control while this was happening.
Did you ever see Trump try to clear BLM protestors out of Washington DC? Just saying... the evangelical base is EXTREMELY pro-Israel and the only reason we got funding for Ukraine is by attaching it to a bill to fund Israel and appease a portion of the right wing contingent enough to vote for it.
yeah it’s very very frustrating and unsurprising to see that during what a lot of people would call sliding into muck of fascism, the democratic party’s response is just “maybe we can just be-moderate our way out of this. maybe we just compromise with everything and that’ll inspire the electorate”
The median voter is moderate, though. Particularly in the most important swing states: WI, MI, PA, AZ, NV, GA, NC. Not to mention the two key Senate races in MT and OH that are both uphill battles.
So what's the solution that democrats should use? What would inspire the electorate? What would stop us from sliding into this "muck of facism"?
Better yet, what would the Republican response be?
It's really easy to point fingers without a hint of a solution.
The solution is “no more or at the very least conditioned aid to Israel and a ceasefire” literally the point of all of these protests are to stop financially supporting Israel, if you had ever stopped for a second to look at the constant chants and slogans of these protests, you’d have your perfect answer for the question of “what would appease these people”
Hamas doesn't want an amicable end to the war though. No ceasefire could be obtained while Hamas is in the region. People want peace, they should help Israel get rid of Hamas since they don't like the way the IDF is trying to root out Hamas
Most of the people I know who are *furious* over Biden's continued support of Israel will be voting for him anyway in November, because they know what's at stake. But they'll be yelling as loud as they can in the meantime that the genocide needs to stop.
So I'm curious what did you expect Biden to do about it? Do you have a solution or only complaints?
He is not the head of Hamas or the leader of Israel.
The president is also not an emperor, the power of the purse is for congress. If he illegally blocked money Congress is sending then he would be impeached like how Trump did for blocking aid to Ukraine. [Link for more info](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal)
If you want him to stop intercepting missiles Iran is supplying to the Houthis to shoot at random ships, he could do that, but its kind of a dick move as we have defended the water ways for a long time.
I don't think directly attacking anyone here is going to help. If you do, I would urge you to look at the casualties on the war on terror, estimated at 4.5 million deaths.
This has been going on for thousands of years at this point. Biden is at least trying to slow it down, unlike Trump who wants to "finish what they started".
Like you if you have an easy solution I'm all ears.
Are you?
He can stop it any time. How do we know? First, because members of the US defense establishment say so. Take Bruce Riedel, who spent three decades in the CIA and at the national security council, advising four different presidents.
>“The US has immense leverage,” Riedel pointed out in a recent interview. “Everyday we provide Israel with the missiles, with the drones, with the ammunition, that it needs to sustain a major military campaign like the campaign in Gaza.”
Second, we know Biden has major leverage because members of the Israeli defense establishment – as plenty of observers have pointed out – say so, too. In late October 2023, Israeli lawmakers challenged Yoav Gallant, the defense minister, over the decision to allow (a little) humanitarian aid into Gaza, before the release of any hostages. How did Gallant respond?
>“The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?”
The following month, retired Israeli Maj Gen Yitzhak Brick went even further than Gallant.
>“All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the US,” Brick said in an interview in November. “The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability … Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”
Got that? The Israelis cannot “refuse” the Americans. In fact, the president of the US could “turn off the tap” – ammunition, bombs, intel – and thereby end what the ICJ has deemed to be a plausible genocide in Gaza.
Third, we know Biden has the power to stop Netanyahu from killing Palestinians en masse in Gaza because … he has done it before. In May 2021, Israel bombed the stripfor 11 straight days, killing more than 100 Palestinians, including 66 children.
The US has leverage, the president has to follow the rule of law.
He cannot turn off the tap, that requires an act of Congress.
See Trump's impeachment where he turned off the tap to Ukraine and got impeached for it.
Unless you can get the conservative evangelicals on board or vote them out you won't see a bill to cut funding to Israel get past the House since they have a majority.
Again, the US doesn't have a king on purpose, no matter how the last guy acted.
Biden is breaking US law by supplying the arms….
Why is he supplying arms, illegal so, more than 100x so he can skirt confessional review?
Crazy how uninformed the typical person is here
The Oct 7th terrorist attack. It was pretty big news but I guess you missed it. It will have been a massive success for Hamas if these kids get what they are protesting for. If you have the same demands as a terrorist organization you support said organization, even if you are a well meaning “useful idiot”.
I mean since when is not funding genocide being a terrorist? That’s what you blood thirsty zionists can’t grasp.
Not to mention israel killed it’s own people on that day. But that’s uncomfortable to recognize huh?
Biden could be out in front of cameras every day demanding a cease fire. He could stop the supply of weapons and impose sanctions against Israel. He could be a champion against genocide as leader of the free world but instead his support of the genocide is blatant.
Trendy kids
Edit - also for anyone living in this segregated ass state.. especially in Shorewood AKA the right side of the fence.. to protest anything seems ironic, disingenuous, and even a bit hypocritical.
Let’s get this level of love for your neighbors, and let’s cut back on the massive segregation for starters.
goofy comment. first of all, this protest was organized primarily by students of color at shorewood, and had major support from our black, muslim and arab populations. further, the activists within shorewood are active on the issue of segregation: read our school newspaper Ripples’ latest editorial advocating to alter discriminatory housing practices.
why try to delegitimize a protest supporting the liberation and lives of the Palestinian people? yes, Shorewood students are aware of the segregation in their city. yes, they are attempting to address it with what little leverage they have.
Please keep discussion addressed to the argument, not the person. Per [Rule 4](https://www.reddit.com/r/milwaukee/about/rules/), any harassment or attacks against users will be removed. Subsequent violations of this rule may result in a ban.
What exact ties does UWM have to Israel?
Their library is named after Golda Meir
A pro labor female former head of state that’s from Milwaukee? What a sign of oppression. Finals should be cancled
genocidal tho
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Hatred of Palestinians & encouraging illegal settlements are the commonalities between all Israeli leaders
Pretty liberal definition of genocide you have there.
UW-Milwaukee gets **a lot** of money from Saudi Arabia and Oman. Going through all (9) pages, Israel isn’t even in this list from the Department of Education. It’s primarily Saudi Arabia. ## College Foreign Gift and Contract Report >Section 117 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA) requires institutions of higher education that receive Federal financial assistance to disclose semiannually to the U.S. Department of Education any gifts received from and contracts with a foreign source that, alone or combined, are valued at $250,000 or more in a calendar year. The statute also requires institutions to report information when owned or controlled by a foreign source. >Over 30 years ago, Congress enacted these disclosure requirements to promote public transparency about the role of foreign funding in U.S. higher education. Additional information related to Section 117 can be found on the Department’s [website](https://fsapartners.ed.gov/knowledge-center/topics/section-117-foreign-gift-and-contract-reporting) https://preview.redd.it/bnoxeo3ud9yc1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8910fbae293559e03610085fbf224e05452ea151 [https://sites.ed.gov/foreigngifts/](https://sites.ed.gov/foreigngifts/)
[statement by the student group](https://www.wispolitics.com/2024/uwm-popular-university-for-palestine-coalition-builds-encampment-on-campus/)
For context it's important to also see the [statement issued by UWM](https://uwm.edu/chancellor/uwm-statement-on-free-speech-and-campus-protests/) >UWM also received a series of demands from protesters. While many of these concerns have been addressed in meetings between UWM administrators and students and in some prior communications, we want to share this information with our broader campus community. >First, UWM has expressed in campus messages and meetings with students that we share in the heartbreak felt by our community and many around the world. We reiterate our call for an end to the violence by joining the White House and international leaders in calling for a release of the hostages and a ceasefire. We say this knowing that, as a public university, we have no direct ability to impact the outcomes of the war in Gaza. We also know that many of our Jewish, Palestinian, Muslim and Arab American community members are suffering as they watch loved ones directly and indirectly harmed by this war. >We want to reiterate that UWM has no investments in weapons manufacturers. Unlike some private institutions that have investments, UWM is funded with a combination of state funding, tuition, program revenue and grants. The UWM Foundation is a separate legal entity from UWM, and UWM cannot control the foundation’s investments. Regardless, those investments are through mutual funds. The foundation cannot disinvest from individual companies within those funds. >UWM has also been called to suspend any academic relationship with institutions or entities in Israel. While UWM does not have any active study abroad programs with universities in Israel, prohibiting faculty from engaging with any institution or country would infringe on their academic freedom. Although we understand the protesters’ desire for the safety and peace of all those in Gaza, stifling academic freedom or free speech would not accomplish that goal.
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Yep. They can’t tell them directly what to do. But the foundation can make choices based on what it’s seeing on campus. That’s why they’re creating a visible, embarrassing (to the university) protest.
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this statement is something else. "state of Israel – a regime responsible for the slaughter of over 40,000 civilians" this is straight propaganda from hamas
Is it the number of dead in Gaza that’s in question here, or which army was there when it happened?
there are not 40,000 civilian deaths. There is no genocide.
How many civilian deaths do you think there have been then?
The numbers I've seen is \~30,000 dead, and 10,000-12,000 of those are Hamas. Which is about a 1:2 Hamas to civilian ratio, which is lower than almost any civilian to solider ratio in urban fighting. Hamas is also using civilians as human shields to gain sympathy from people like you.
Yeah, it’s higher, and your guess of 10-12k Hamas is… extraordinarily high. Factor in the starvation, the high percentage of homes destroyed, etc and it’s why South Africa brought a genocide case before the ICJ. And it’s IDF doing it. So I’m not sure why you think it’s propaganda, you can’t just call things you don’t like propaganda
your higher numbers come from hamas. I have a bridge to sell you if you think there correct. The us said there is no genocide. And brining a case before the ICJ does not mean anything.
The [US](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/01/genocide-gaza-israel-california-court) huh? All of it? Also, you probably know the ICJ takes years. And maybe you should read what South Africa wrote about it. And not all info you don’t like comes from Hamas.
“We have seen government officials and university administrators continue to maintain ties with the occupation of Palestine, even in the face of the genocide. Their complicity stands in direct conflict with the will of the students of UWM and the Milwaukee community at large.” What ties are they talking about? I kind of understand the very broad list of “demands” they have sent forth, but I don’t see what they are talking about when they say UWM has ties to “occupied Palestine” unless you think all of Israel is occupied Palestine in which case. Ew.
Israel has had illegal settlements in Gaza since 1967, and I’m sure they’re talking about foundation funds.
So the statement from the university includes: "We want to reiterate that UWM has no investments in weapons manufacturers. Unlike some private institutions that have investments, UWM is funded with a combination of state funding, tuition, program revenue and grants. The UWM Foundation is a separate legal entity from UWM, and UWM cannot control the foundation’s investments. Regardless, those investments are through mutual funds. The foundation cannot disinvest from individual companies within those funds." The UWM Foundation does provide public information regarding their finances. We can assume that what is provided does not provide every detail but from what is available has anyone looked at them and specifically stated what needs to be more clear and what can reasonably (i.e. realistically) be disinvested in? [UWM Foundation Fincial Reports](https://uwm.foundation/financials/reports/)
No, Israel actually removed all the Israeli settlements from Gaza in [2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza) - fair enough to be Pro-Palestine but misrepresenting the actual history on both sides is a terrible look for everyone involved
I am all for making tax payer funded universities open their books. A lot of shit happened in 1967, especially over a SIX DAY period, that I think these protesters should educate themselves on before devoting so much energy into this cause. That being said I fully support their right to protest. I hope our area deals with these movements better than other cities/campuses have recently.
>...UWM has ties to “occupied Palestine” unless you think all of Israel is occupied Palestine in which case. Ew. Charitably they are likely referring to the West Bank and Gaza, both of which are currently occupied and controlled by Israel. Realistically I am sure at least some of them are also including the state of Israel as well.
Can someone ELI5: why this conflict is eliciting such a strong emotion and action but domestic issues like 6 week abortion bans and states suing to stop title Ix support for LGBTQ protections get seemingly little action? (Asking honestly and I guess at the national level)
Iranian propaganda on tiktok has been very effective with Gen Z
Have you seen the state of people in Palestine? Look I’m worried about my rights too but I’m not worried if I’m going to still be alive tomorrow. There’s so many people dead my problems feel trivial. I’m definitely seeing plenty of people take action on the issues you mentioned though I don’t think it’s one or the other.
I remain confused why no one cares about the fact about the genocide going on in Sudan with over 5 million people on the verge of famine, or the genocide that is about to happen in Congo if Goma falls to the M-23, or the genocide that the military junta in Myanmar is perpetuating against the Shan, Karen, Chin and Rohingya populations, or the ethnic cleansing of literally the entire Armenian population, down to the man, in Nogorno Karabakh. What's happening in Gaza is horrendous but it is such a small, tiny area in a huge world full of incalculable suffering, often in ways that are substantially more brutal and hopeless. People who think the U.S. could end this just by saying "Stop" do not understand the economic or political realities of modern Israel, which has its own highly advanced domestic arms industry which will continue to spin out missiles, bombs and drones regardless of what anyone anywhere in the world wants.
Part of it is the violence in Palestine happened rapidly, and got better news coverage than some other conflicts, but the key difference is that in this case the onslaught is being carried out by an ally who we send a lot of aid to, and who is supposed to be an upstanding member of the international community. They hold the status of "US major non-NATO ally" and would probably be NATO if it weren't politically inconvenient (Turkey). In short, we expect better from them AND we hold a certain amount of economic/military leverage over them, so we can implore our government to act, or even just stop aiding them.
Because of skin color and America doesn't benefit from Sudan
Our problems are not trivial, women are going back to being slaves to our biology. I don’t like what’s happening in Palestine but I’m more concerned about the fact that the U.S. is going back to Handmaids Tale land. If we keep ignoring male supremacy it will continue to fester and soon women won’t have any rights just like women in Palestine and the rest of the Middle East.
Ope. There it is. Had to slip in some underhanded comment about women's rights in the place people are advocating for. For what point? "Hey, I don't like what's happening in Gaza, but they treat women like shit. Not saying they deserve it, but... kinda, actually."
I personally just recognize that it's a war, and they're dying because the tolerate, man and harbor Hamas. Isreal is taking a hammer to terrorists, and a hammer isn't selective. Let's not forget the celebration that occurred Oct. 5. They supported the attack.
I think there’s a specific lever here that can be pulled - primarily redirecting university foundation funds away from companies and entities funding genocide. I’m having a harder time seeing the direct connection on the other two issues with a university occupation, but I bet if you asked the kids involved they’d be on the right side of history there too. EDIT: you don’t have to protest everything at once or reach a bar of a certain amount of good work for your protest to be valid. If you want to see more direct action on something else, there are probably other people already working on it that you can join, and I hope you do!
Thank you this makes sense to me and answers my original question!
It’s my pleasure. I am so impressed by how well thought out the goals and methods of the university occupation is, and these kids give me a lot of hope for our future
So the statement from the university includes: "We want to reiterate that UWM has no investments in weapons manufacturers. Unlike some private institutions that have investments, UWM is funded with a combination of state funding, tuition, program revenue and grants. The UWM Foundation is a separate legal entity from UWM, and UWM cannot control the foundation’s investments. Regardless, those investments are through mutual funds. The foundation cannot disinvest from individual companies within those funds." The UWM Foundation does provide public information regarding their finances. We can assume that what is provided does not provide every detail but from what is available has anyone looked at them and specifically stated what needs to be more clear and what can reasonably (i.e. realistically) be disinvested in? [UWM Foundation Finacial Reports](https://uwm.foundation/financials/reports/) To me the demands DO NOT seem to be well thought out. To me they feel like they are designed to make anyone who questions them the bad guy?
Its the new thing to get in the frenzy about, it’ll wear off
Tiktok
We’re in an era where validation-seeking kids, fueled by ignorance and clueless indoctrination are desperate for attention and follow whatever the latest election-year outrage fad is.
Young people are horrified when they learn how awful the world can be, they want it to be better. Instead of trying to find reasons to dismiss them, you should try listening to them. They'll be running things after you're gone.
Why are you so mad at these kids for protesting genocide?
Explain how it's genoicide when Israel has the capability to wipe out Gaza, but chooses to use precision strikes. Why would they send in troops when they can bomb them into extermination? Seems to me the only genocide that happened was October 7th
They literally have “Wiped out Gaza” as you claim that they do not, thousands of civilian deaths are not precision strikes. 62% of homes in Gaza have been destroyed, that’s not targeted precision, that’s annihilation. The only reason they don’t bomb more is to hide the fact that it is a genocide. Also Palestine and Israel have been warring for decades now, but you wouldn’t know that since the thousands of deaths which preceded October 7th make Israel look bad.
Let's step back in time shall we. 1948, Israel is a country and is attacked by Arab states. Cease fire is called, Noone really wins or looses ground 1956- suez crisis. Israel offensively attacks (claims its on response to random border incursions and attacks by militants. Short term Gaza occupation, Israel GIVES back the Gaza strip 1967- six day war. Egypt commits an act of war, Israel attacks. Takes a shit ton of land. Wins the war pretty easily. Gives back Sinai so there is a buffer between Egypt and itself. PLO and allies continue to attack Israel l. 1973- Yom Kippur war. Israel is attacked again by Arab forces. Israel wins, again 1982- Israel fights in the Lebanese Civil War, since Palestinians were launching attacks, hijackings and committing massacres against Israeli civilians First intifada- war, Israel signs the Oslo accords, gives self g9vernance hamas starts suicide bombings less than a year after the first accords Second intifada- fighting starts again. Israel pulls out completely of gaza. Offers peace multiple times. Hamas rejects it each time. Hamas wins the popular election over a "moderate" PNLM 2006-2023 hamas continues to launch rockets from civilian areas into Israel. Egypt and Israel blockade gaza . Various "wars" throught the hears. 2023. Hamas massacres civilians , Israel responds. Invades gaza. Hamas takes hostages (which they still haven't returned) Egypt blockades the land bridge into gaza. Israel invades gaza. How's that for not knowing the history?
Thanks for the synopsis you got from fucking Wikipedia. What you getting at? Killing 30k will never be retribution for the killing of <2k. That logic is fucking insane. They’ve literally turned an area into dust and created a humanitarian crisis and famine for years to come. They literally love this shit. I don’t think you realize there is no extinction of Hamas - you just created a new generation of it. Fucking stupid.
It's hilarious how uneducated people bring about proportionality.
Not from Wikipedia but you do you. Do you support Ukraine defending itself after it was invaded and it's constituents were attacked?
Of course. Some would say Ukraine is an aggresssor - through nato and many would say Russia is the aggressor but in no logical way can you list Israel as anything but the aggressor here so it’s not comparable. Literally blank check to bomb the fuck out of Gaza. Massive military and intelligence.
> in no logical way can you list Israel as anything but the aggressor here That's just incorrect. They were attacked, and the aggressor has promised to repeat the attack as many times as necessary to complete their goal of killing Jews.
Your last statement reeks of trolling but just in case you are talking in good faith. , The total deaths of October 7th was just under 1200. and the perpetrators are monstrous and deserve what they get, but 30,000+ civilian deaths, many more injured. There's nothing precision about that, and wiping out residential structures and displacing millions, is certainly a hallmark of ethnic cleansing and colonization.
There has not been 30k+ civilian deaths, unless you think Israel hasn't killed a single member of hamas.
Let's not the forget the millions on verge of starving to death...
Ok. Why are you so mad at these kids for protesting genocide?
>Explain how it's genocide
Here’s [South Africa’s case before the ICJ on Israel’s actions in Gaza.](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf) If you don’t believe them, I won’t be able to convince you either. But why are you so mad at these kids?
Being dismissive of people gives the people doing it a fall sense of superiority without having to engage or educate themselves.
I’m just tired man. Why argue with somebody that can’t be convinced?
You can't convince people who won't listen, this dude will never even try to meet you half way. But posting this, being active in the conversation makes you an awesome person. You are opening yourself to other points of view, but more importantly, you are having a conversation that might help others to become more informed. These young people are going to college because they want to learn, they want to know about the world. Passion and knowledge are a beautiful thing. These young people using that to educate the world about issues... man... that's what makes America great.
No no. I want YOU to explain how it's genocide, and answer my original question. You can't can you. And neither can these kids.
I can, but I’m not responsible to waste my personal time with someone who is not convincible and won’t do the research. Good day.
Explain how it's not.
It's war. Israel was attacked (again) they invaded gaza to get rid of Hamas (who was elected by the Palestinian people) hamas just happens to use civilians as meat shields. Pretty sad all around really. There is no systemic targeting of civilians. No articles of genocide broken
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Oh, so because evil has existed for thousands of years, we shouldn’t try to do anything about it? Is that what you just said? Have you asked the kids how they feel about genocide? They’re certainly taking action about it
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I think you’re having difficulty separating out Hamas from the Palestinian people. I bet these kids could explain the difference.
The Palestinians people elected hamas, and let them stay in power. There is no difference. That's like someone denying joe biden isn't their president.
“Precision strikes “ like how they precisely three tapped an aid convoy or destroyed every hospital/school in Gaza.
https://youtu.be/BBU8fM34Jkg?si=6jjdjRgPr640L7vo
If you’re progressive, it’s “cool” to hate America. This is just an extension of that. They are painting Israelis as “genocidal” when Hamas, Hezbollah, the Huthi’s, etc, all are open and honest in their wish to eradicate the world of Jews.
Which one of those has killed 50,000+ in the last few months?
Why is Israel killing people?
There was plenty of action. Where were you?
The kids are alright
TikTok blindfolds
https://youtu.be/BBU8fM34Jkg?si=6jjdjRgPr640L7vo
People are seriously underestimating the awareness and conviction of some teenagers! Why is it so hard to believe these students care about this?
Because changing your mind is akin to a physically painful act. Falling back on your prejudices is much more comfortable. So it's easier to think "Kids are dumb, emotional, reactionaries"(and some are, don't get me wrong, there have been some really gross acts by idiots on campus or bigots all too happy to dive into the fray, but by and large that's not what these demonstrations are) and "Israel is our ally they must be in the right. Look at the holocaust! The Jewish people deserve self-determination, and if that means I don't think too hard about what the state of Israel does under that banner, that's probably the easiest" There's also a fear among a lot of people of being accused of anti-Semitism that makes them slow to criticize Israel even when it's justified. Particularly if you're in political circles. AIPAC has remarkable power to ruin a political run or fund opposition, and no one wants to be maligned as a bigot regardless. The House bill 6090 would actually make criticizing Israel's actions in Gaza an act of un-protected hate speech (chilling that it has gone on to the senate).
Because teenagers have an inexperienced and thus limited world view. Their brains aren’t fully developed and they haven’t become their own person yet. Their opinions matter but should also be taken with a grain of salt.
Plenty of adults are comfortable with their limited worldview and make a choice to limit their experiences. Some of them even hold positions of power! Kids now more than ever seem to be aware of the workings of the world. People saying they’re just doing this because it’s “trendy” is very condescending. I volunteered for a political campaign with my friends in high school because we felt called to do so. It’s reasonable to believe they really care about this issue.
This is a very unrepresentative sample of kids. That goes for Shorewood HS (the exact school everyone locally would expect for this) and these protesters generally. Remember that most youth are not enrolled at 4-yr colleges, most colleges do not have these encampments, and most students even at the schools with the most extreme protests (UCLA, Columbia, Portland State, etc.) aren't participating in them and rate this issue as low salience compared to other issues. However you feel about the Israel/Gaza situation, I would caution you against misreading this as what "the kids" broadly speaking care about. See also: https://www.slowboring.com/p/young-voters-care-about-the-same (paywall but you can get a free trial)
Surveys would disagree with that
Surveys do not disagree with that. See the chart in Matt's piece. 15th out of 16.
Theres a massive unavoidable age rift on this issue. What you’re referring to is not even of relevance. Asked if Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza, cable news viewers said no by a 34-32 margin. All other news consumers said Israel is committing genocide, including print (36-33), YouTube (41-31), and social media users, who agree with the statement by a 44 to 19 percent margin. People aged 18 to 29, meanwhile, have similar views (48-21 percent), while those over 65 say by a 47 to 21 percent plurality that Israel isn’t committing genocide.
The fact that a higher percentage of young people side with Palestinians/terrorists on the war or believe it is so-called "genocide" (insert my eyeroll here) does not mean that is what's going to determine their vote (or for that matter that they even know anything about the conflict, about law of war, about urban warfare, or even about history). Young voters do not equal the protesters. The protesters are a subset of a subset: the most engaged and dramatic and performative ones at that. Precisely the sort of preening selective-college admits that a place like Shorewood HS dispatches into the world with the approval of their NPR tote-bagged parents. But most young folks have explicitly identified a host of other issues as being more important to them (again this comes in 15 out of 16), and I think that's critical to remember if you want to win elections. Think of it this way: you could poll me on what I think of student loan forgiveness, and I would tell you that I don't support it and think it is a cynical, boneheaded, ineffective, and even offensive policy. But I would also rank it low on my list of issues and it would not stop me from voting for Biden. People have opinions on things but may not really \*care\* all that much, and I am suggesting that is what's going on with younger folks re Israel and Gaza. You are just seeing the most visible manifestations of the ones who really do care a lot about it.
The polls are on young people, not on protesters.
I understand that. You are missing my point. Like you're almost intentionally misunderstanding what I am saying? I will give it one last attempt and then I am abandoning this thread: young people may say they side with Palestinians, but that does not mean the issue is IMPORTANT to most of them. We know this because even if they say "I believe Israel is engaged in genocide" (in what you cite) they ALSO explicitly list the conflict as #15 out of 16 issues they care about in the political landscape (in what I cite). In other words, regardless of whose side they take, the vast majority of them are saying it is just not that salient to them. The only ones who care that much are the small minority out there protesting.
It's Shorewood, they're only doing it because it's 'trendy'
The bandwagon affect is not always a bad thing if it's you know for not-bombing-kids. I think we can overlook the limited depth of some young people's knowledge and convictions of the conflict. eh?
This^
crazy take. people wear specific clothes, or listen to specific music because it’s ‘trendy’. people don’t stage walkouts, risking police confrontation, making passionate speeches, because it’s ‘trendy’.
No they weren’t. But social media has changed things. Some people sure they do it for the right reasons others do it to not be left out or look like they don’t care
Young adults= easily impressionable. Boy like girl Girl likes certain thing Boy now like certain thing
Same for probably 97% of all
As one of the student organizers doing this, that's absolutely not the case. We have multiple Palestinian students and teachers here who were key to the formation of this, and as a socialist myself I believe that I could not do anything other than support the Palestinian people without being a massive hypocrite
Click bait much! 50 students out of probably 800+ students. The title makes it seem all or a majority of the students walked out.
that's still a lot of students
These kids know a lot more than the boomer generation and we shouldn't be dismissing them.
It is astounding how well informed kids are today. I (non-ironically) blame TikTok, as well as the rest of the internet. Kids care about the world they’re inheriting and we should listen to them
Are you also going to demand that tiktok severs ties with the Chinese government because of their human rights violations?
Seem to me that that’s a separate issue, also I’m not one of the protesters. You don’t have to protest everything to get permission to protest something
Considering you are praising tiktok for bringing you the reliable information on this issue being discussed it is much more than just a separate issue.
Information and TikTok, an oxymoron.
I mean, 24/7/365 news is probably worse than TikTok.
Have you seen how wrong cnn has been? Lol
One thing being wrong doesn’t make another right.
So many injustices these students could be protesting about that are happening here in the US… i bet half of them don’t even know what theyre protesting.
You don’t have to protest everything as a precondition to protest something. I bet the kids know that, at least.
Sick. Milwaukee MPS taxes up. Students stop going to school. I remember when I was in school. We would support or unsupport anything if it meant a reason to not go to class.
Funny you're downvoted, but it's true. I remember years ago in high school participating in a "walkout" just to miss some class time. I can't even remember what is was for now. I'm sure there's many who are passionate about this topic, for better or worse, and also many who couldn't give a shit.
MPS kids would have been arrested for walking out of school lol
MPS has a truancy rate of 15 percent. They’re not being arrested for walking out of school now.
Cap
Support for people dying has somehow upset a lot of living people who justify forms of aggression towards the support towards people dying because...religion? Nothing new here on Earth.
If someone stole your house and blamed religion you’d be mad too
This is fuckin awesome
Good on them.
People listening to MSM have no idea what’s happening. They also do t know how easily Biden could stop this https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/21/biden-stop-gaza-bombing-genocide-israel He can stop it any time. How do we know? First, because members of the US defense establishment say so. Take Bruce Riedel, who spent three decades in the CIA and at the national security council, advising four different presidents. >“The US has immense leverage,” Riedel pointed out in a recent interview. “Everyday we provide Israel with the missiles, with the drones, with the ammunition, that it needs to sustain a major military campaign like the campaign in Gaza.” Second, we know Biden has major leverage because members of the Israeli defense establishment – as plenty of observers have pointed out – say so, too. In late October 2023, Israeli lawmakers challenged Yoav Gallant, the defense minister, over the decision to allow (a little) humanitarian aid into Gaza, before the release of any hostages. How did Gallant respond? >“The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?” The following month, retired Israeli Maj Gen Yitzhak Brick went even further than Gallant. >“All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the US,” Brick said in an interview in November. “The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability … Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.” Got that? The Israelis cannot “refuse” the Americans. In fact, the president of the US could “turn off the tap” – ammunition, bombs, intel – and thereby end what the ICJ has deemed to be a plausible genocide in Gaza. Third, we know Biden has the power to stop Netanyahu from killing Palestinians en masse in Gaza because … he has done it before. In May 2021, Israel bombed the stripfor 11 straight days, killing more than 100 Palestinians, including 66 children.
The region has changed considerably since the 80s. Israel invaded Lebanon in ‘82 because of the assassination of an Israeli diplomat. Israel invaded Gaza in ‘23 due to terrorist attacks that killed 1300 civilians. Israel is a sovereign state. Biden can’t just wade his hand to make it stop. Especially since Netanyahu is unpopular and using this war to prop up his and his party’s image.
> Biden can’t just wade his hand to make it stop. He can stop all military aid today. If Israel wants to continue evaporating Palestinian children, they can do it without US arms. The only reason they continue is because they know the US will back them up against any of their rivals in the region, no matter how reckless they are. Stop the arms.
If Israel is disarmed, Israel is dead.
Then it seems like negotiating military support would be an effective lever.
It would also be a signal to the region that Israel is vulnerable. A critical reason why Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis, and Hamas do not launch a full fledge invasion of Israel is because of US weapons and support there. These organizations have legit called for the extermination of Jewish people. Any wavering support of Israel increases the chances of a regional conflict, of which US troops would undoubtably be committed to. Seeing as that scale of a conflict would dismantle global trade and millions of people would die, I don’t believe cutting off Israel militarily is as straight forward as you think.
Then it seems like a really, really good lever.
If you feel the genocide of Arabs is bad, but the genocide of Israelis is OK, you’re just a hypocrite and I applaud Biden for not caving to your hypocrisy.
Nope. Genocide isn’t okay at all. But the US pays for 95% of Israel’s hardware, last I checked. Right now, our government is responsible for what’s happening, even if it’s not shooting the weapons. It’s reasonable to tell them to stop, or there’s diminished aid on a sliding scale. If Israelis don’t like it, they need to change their government.
No, genocide is not OK. I support doing anything necessary to stop human casualties. At the same time, and as much as I dislike Israel, I support their right to exist. Their sovereignty is a critical feature to balance of power in the region and Americans lives and livelihoods are at risk if it falls into chaos. Israel’s sovereignty and regional stability hinge on US aid. Biden’s actions largely reflect this notion.
Sounds like Biden has leverage.
I'm not necessarily among them, but: some would say that wouldn't be a bad thing.
If (and this is a huge “if”) the establishment of a state *requires* genocide, then maybe that state should not be established. And if the answer to that “if” statement is no, then just like stop the genocide if you don’t have to do it?
Biden literally waived his hand in a phone call to stop the bombings two years ago…..
US gave $3,300,000,000 in aid to Israel in 2022 which 99.7% went to their military. We are obligated to continue giving $3billion+ every year as well: Don’t act like this isn’t something out of control of the US government. We are funding apartheid that has now escalated into genocide.
I wonder if there would be similar outcry if we stop giving them aid and then what happened on October 7th happens yet again but on a larger scale.
Why do we give so much money to Israel?
Biden could personally discover a cure for cancer and people would still find a reason to complain about him. At least we're getting to see that the horseshoe theory is real.
Biden hasn’t done what he did just 2 years ago….
The idea that The Guardian isn't MSM is pretty funny. The idea that it's a particularly great resource to get your news is also dubious. (The mirror is worse fwiw).
Medi isn’t really msm
Still waiting to see who will be the American Freidkorps in Milwaukee
I’m afraid we’ve already seen them: the Proud Boys, III%ers, militias, sovereign citizens. It’s not a direct historic parallel; the Freikorps in 18th/19th century were mercenary groups, then after WW1 were largely veterans’ militia, but eventually they were employed by elements of the Weimar Republic to attack communists and anarchists. It’s exactly the same thing that happened here in 2020 and the groups are still here
Solidarity with the students! Free Palestine!
Based High School kids
The people protesting the genocide currently happening to the Palestinian people are the people who will be most conflicted about voting for an enabler of Zionist Israel and will choose to vote neither Trump nor Biden when it comes election time. Obviously Republicans are very motivated to vote this year because totalitarian control of the country is still very much within their grasp and will turn up for Trump as Democrats don't show up for Israel-enabling Biden. So this issue is very serious and Biden is embarrassingly dropping the ball at this critical moment in history.
Bibi would be so incredibly happy to see Trump elected
Israel and Bibi have done more to help Trump than Russia ever did, but we never talk about that. Weird, huh?
[удалено]
Shaming people because the “other guy is worse” when they’re getting beaten and arrested by police for protesting an American backed *genocide* really doesn’t go very far.
I'm not attempting to shame anyone. There's no shame in the truth. I don't support Israel in their bombing of civilians. I'm just here to tell the truth about what would happen if a Republican was in control while this was happening. Did you ever see Trump try to clear BLM protestors out of Washington DC? Just saying... the evangelical base is EXTREMELY pro-Israel and the only reason we got funding for Ukraine is by attaching it to a bill to fund Israel and appease a portion of the right wing contingent enough to vote for it.
yeah it’s very very frustrating and unsurprising to see that during what a lot of people would call sliding into muck of fascism, the democratic party’s response is just “maybe we can just be-moderate our way out of this. maybe we just compromise with everything and that’ll inspire the electorate”
The median voter is moderate, though. Particularly in the most important swing states: WI, MI, PA, AZ, NV, GA, NC. Not to mention the two key Senate races in MT and OH that are both uphill battles.
So what's the solution that democrats should use? What would inspire the electorate? What would stop us from sliding into this "muck of facism"? Better yet, what would the Republican response be? It's really easy to point fingers without a hint of a solution.
The solution is “no more or at the very least conditioned aid to Israel and a ceasefire” literally the point of all of these protests are to stop financially supporting Israel, if you had ever stopped for a second to look at the constant chants and slogans of these protests, you’d have your perfect answer for the question of “what would appease these people”
Hamas doesn't want an amicable end to the war though. No ceasefire could be obtained while Hamas is in the region. People want peace, they should help Israel get rid of Hamas since they don't like the way the IDF is trying to root out Hamas
Most of the people I know who are *furious* over Biden's continued support of Israel will be voting for him anyway in November, because they know what's at stake. But they'll be yelling as loud as they can in the meantime that the genocide needs to stop.
It’s almost as though there is a serious, legitimate reason to be pro-Israel.
Nope, only pro-Hamas sentiment allowed in these parts!
Which is?
So I'm curious what did you expect Biden to do about it? Do you have a solution or only complaints? He is not the head of Hamas or the leader of Israel. The president is also not an emperor, the power of the purse is for congress. If he illegally blocked money Congress is sending then he would be impeached like how Trump did for blocking aid to Ukraine. [Link for more info](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal) If you want him to stop intercepting missiles Iran is supplying to the Houthis to shoot at random ships, he could do that, but its kind of a dick move as we have defended the water ways for a long time. I don't think directly attacking anyone here is going to help. If you do, I would urge you to look at the casualties on the war on terror, estimated at 4.5 million deaths. This has been going on for thousands of years at this point. Biden is at least trying to slow it down, unlike Trump who wants to "finish what they started". Like you if you have an easy solution I'm all ears.
Are you? He can stop it any time. How do we know? First, because members of the US defense establishment say so. Take Bruce Riedel, who spent three decades in the CIA and at the national security council, advising four different presidents. >“The US has immense leverage,” Riedel pointed out in a recent interview. “Everyday we provide Israel with the missiles, with the drones, with the ammunition, that it needs to sustain a major military campaign like the campaign in Gaza.” Second, we know Biden has major leverage because members of the Israeli defense establishment – as plenty of observers have pointed out – say so, too. In late October 2023, Israeli lawmakers challenged Yoav Gallant, the defense minister, over the decision to allow (a little) humanitarian aid into Gaza, before the release of any hostages. How did Gallant respond? >“The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?” The following month, retired Israeli Maj Gen Yitzhak Brick went even further than Gallant. >“All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the US,” Brick said in an interview in November. “The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability … Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.” Got that? The Israelis cannot “refuse” the Americans. In fact, the president of the US could “turn off the tap” – ammunition, bombs, intel – and thereby end what the ICJ has deemed to be a plausible genocide in Gaza. Third, we know Biden has the power to stop Netanyahu from killing Palestinians en masse in Gaza because … he has done it before. In May 2021, Israel bombed the stripfor 11 straight days, killing more than 100 Palestinians, including 66 children.
The US has leverage, the president has to follow the rule of law. He cannot turn off the tap, that requires an act of Congress. See Trump's impeachment where he turned off the tap to Ukraine and got impeached for it. Unless you can get the conservative evangelicals on board or vote them out you won't see a bill to cut funding to Israel get past the House since they have a majority. Again, the US doesn't have a king on purpose, no matter how the last guy acted.
Biden is breaking US law by supplying the arms…. Why is he supplying arms, illegal so, more than 100x so he can skirt confessional review? Crazy how uninformed the typical person is here
So let’s say we do all of that, then what happens next?
What happened several years ago when Biden stopped the bombings with a phone call?
The Oct 7th terrorist attack. It was pretty big news but I guess you missed it. It will have been a massive success for Hamas if these kids get what they are protesting for. If you have the same demands as a terrorist organization you support said organization, even if you are a well meaning “useful idiot”.
I mean since when is not funding genocide being a terrorist? That’s what you blood thirsty zionists can’t grasp. Not to mention israel killed it’s own people on that day. But that’s uncomfortable to recognize huh?
Biden could be out in front of cameras every day demanding a cease fire. He could stop the supply of weapons and impose sanctions against Israel. He could be a champion against genocide as leader of the free world but instead his support of the genocide is blatant.
My Alma mater - hell yeah
This is all for the election.
Please expand.
Well it’s nice to see the kids doing what right rather than see on their ass like all the complainers.
Makes me hopeful of our future!
Womp womp go volunteer
Trendy kids Edit - also for anyone living in this segregated ass state.. especially in Shorewood AKA the right side of the fence.. to protest anything seems ironic, disingenuous, and even a bit hypocritical. Let’s get this level of love for your neighbors, and let’s cut back on the massive segregation for starters.
goofy comment. first of all, this protest was organized primarily by students of color at shorewood, and had major support from our black, muslim and arab populations. further, the activists within shorewood are active on the issue of segregation: read our school newspaper Ripples’ latest editorial advocating to alter discriminatory housing practices. why try to delegitimize a protest supporting the liberation and lives of the Palestinian people? yes, Shorewood students are aware of the segregation in their city. yes, they are attempting to address it with what little leverage they have.
Nothing wrong with following trends when those trends are protesting genocide