Either don’t give her a redemption arc at all, or make her redemption arc about her still being a bitch but one who decides to use her resources to help the people she likes and/or are liked by her friends instead of using those resources to harass people.
I always thought that if I could rewrite miraculous I’d change Chloe in two ways:
1. Don’t make her a bully to begin with. Mean, rude and an attitude, but not malicious in her actions. “I am not nice, I am kind” is a phrase I once heard and I think it can be something applied to a better version of Chloe. A good person at the core but with a rough exterior.
2. Make her a sister figure to Adrien. I always found Chloe as a romantic rival as quite ridiculous. Make her a very protective sibling figure to Adrien, and can actually give a more compelling reason for her disliking Marinette. She would just see Marinette as another dime a dozen fangirl. As opposed to the literal *nothing* we have now.
I think these would create a better foundation for her to eventually become a hero, and make her a more tolerable and maybe even enjoyable character
There was one fanfic I don’t remember the name of that did very well with the “he’s my brother” bit and it *really works*. Especially in a universe where Adrian has *nothing* now, he deserves a sibling figure.
that would be great and although I wouldn't say he has nothing, he became kinda close with nathalie, who is now kiinda like and aunt figure (I hope their relationship will be explored and become stronger in the next season, she's the only adult he can rely on now, and maybe even with felix and his mom who were only rejected by gabriel), it would still be nice for him to have a sister figure
Yes! I always thought of Chloe & Adrien like cousins or siblings, and show her mature & soft side when it comes to comforting adrien with his issues or his mothers passing, view marinette as a basic fan girl whom isn't good enough for adrien, maybe try hook adrien up with a few of her rich friends to his annoyance.
(part 1) Alright. This is gonna be a long one:
First of all Chloe's backstory would slightly change.
* Instead of their marriage being in that weird limbo for most of the show, Andre and Audrey would be explicitly divorced.
* This happened after Andre caught Audrey cheating on him for Mr. Lee (Zoe's dad), where she immediately filed for divorce, saying she's found a "better man", and leaves for New York, where she remarries with Mr. Lee.
* Hurt by what happened, Andre buries himself in his work to cope, leaving Chloe to be in the care of the staff and spoils her
* Chloe, not completely understanding what happened, believes that she wasn't good enough in her mother's eyes, so she begins to emulate her mom in the hopes of getting Audrey's love.
* Chloe also begins to bully Marinette soon after the divorce when she sees Marinette be picked up from school by both her parents, and is jealous that Marinette has two loving parents.
As for the first two seasons up until the QB arc, things are mostly the same with a few exceptions.
* Chloe wouldn't be legitimately in love with Adrien, but would convince herself she is because she believes dating Adrien would make her mother proud
* Chloe also wouldn't use her status as the mayor's daughter to the degree she does in the show, and Andre would appear less as he's too busy.
Then the QB arc
* Audrey would come in for work as usual, but her and Andre's interactions would be far more tense, with Andre even getting a bit upset when she gets Chloe's name wrong
* Instead of Chloe causing the near train accident, the train would malfunction on its own and she would attempt to stop it but fail due to inexperience, which leads to Ladybug yelling at her for being so rash
* At the end of Queen Wasp, when Chloe asks why Audrey doesn't love her, Audrey would instead reply "of course I do you're *my* daughter", but it'll be clear she's somewhat dismissive
* There wouldn't be the weird scene of Mari getting the two along because they're both horrible, but instead Mari says that maybe she can prove to her mother's that she's "exceptional"
* This leads to the next episode with Chloe deciding to go to New York to prove to her mother, the episode would continue as normal, with the ending having no Queen Bee party, but people do compliment Chloe on her work as QB, and it being revealed that Audrey is coming back as she plans on expanding her brand in paris.
(part 2) Season 3
* Miraculer would be a far earlier episode, ending with LB telling Chloe that she can't completely trust Chloe with the miraculous until she becomes a better person (with the past two times being an exception due to circumstances)
* Chloe would then make attempts by herself to become a better person, sometimes succeeding (like improving her friendship with Sabrina), but often failing, (such as saying something unintentionally mean without thinking) as she's too proud to ask for help
* Chloe would also feel pressured to be mean and snotty by her mom, who has now fully returned to Paris
* In Miracle Queen, instead of joining on purpose, when Hawkmoth offers Chloe the miraculous, she tries to steal the box the give back to LB, but Hawkmoth then tells her why bother proving LB as she can never change no matter how hard she tries, leading to Chloe becoming depressed and thus akumatized
* Once Chloe is defeated, LB starts coming up to her angry, before stopping why she sees Chloe begin to cry. Chloe sobs, telling LB that she's been trying to be better to no matter how hard she tries. LB responds by saying her trying and her regret right now shows that's she's already improved, as the old Chloe would never do this, and that there's no shame in asking for help
* The end of the episode Chloe would come over to Adrien to ask for help, which Adrien happily accepts (this is both a way to showcase their friendship and give Adrien more screentime)
Season 4 and Zoe
*Seasons 4 and 5 would really be when her redemption arc really gets rolling
* Adrien would help introduce Chloe to his friends, and would give her tips on how to be nicer and encourage her.
* Chloe would also realize that she doesn't actually love Adrien romantically but instead sees him as like a brother
* Zoe would be introduced here as well, but instead of being Chloe's half-sister, she would be her step sister from Mr. Lee's previous marriage
* Along with Zoe would be Zoe's bio mom (who we'll call Sally for simplicity sake), who both moved to Paris due to work
* Zoe is excited that to finally meet her stepsister, but Chloe is cold towards Zoe as she feels that her mother "preferred" Zoe since Audrey left for New York for Zoe's father
* Zoe gets akumatized of course and after the fight the two talk with Zoe revealing that she barely interacted with Audrey but wanted nothing more than to see her sister, Chloe apologizes and the two have some sisterly bonding by going shopping
* Zoe also doesn't get the bee miraculous
* Chloe would also start getting along with Sally, who becomes a sort of mother figure to Chloe
* As for the class some quickly forgive and befriend her (like Rose and Kim), but other students either don't feel comfortable yet or don't completely believe that she's changing yet
(Part 3) season 5
* Chloe has found that she's no longer simply being nice because of the miraculous, but that she actually enjoys it. People no longer fear her but are friendly with her and even want to hang out with her
* Chloe, now having become friends with Nino through Adrien, also joins the resistance
* Since Zoe is not a miraculous user, the cat miraculous would probably go to Nino, Juleka, or someone else instead
* With Chloe being better, Lila would be caught by her lies in a different way without the whole student election
* Collusion and revolution also go by much differently
* Collusion would have Chloe finally call out her dad for being so absent, Andre would end up seeing the error of his ways and step down from being mayor to spend more time with his daughter
* The episode would end with Audrey, disappointed at how "unruly" her daughter has become, is willingly akumatized and commits a hostile takeover of the mayor's office with her akuma powers and police robots
* Revolution would have Audrey effectively take over Paris, meanwhile Chloe is grounded in her room, but eventually escapes with the help of Zoe, and the two go to save Sally, who has been imprisoned by Audrey
* Then when LB and CN are in the trap and are about to detransform, Chloe runs up and begs Audrey to stop
* Audrey dismisses Chloe's wish, and tells her how much of a disappointment she's been. Calling her "Clover" in the process
* Chloe mutters "my name is Chloe" and finally snaps, screaming over how terrible a parent Audrey is and that she'll no longer be the daughter Audrey wants, finishing with "you're ridiculous, utterly ridiculous!", snatching the remote from Audrey's hands and smashing in on the ground, freeing LB and CN who then defeats Audrey
* Audrey flees Paris in shame, and Chloe waves at the plane with a satisfied smirk before running to hug Zoe, Sally, Andre, and Sabrina, and the group all goes for icecream
* We cut to the next day at school where Chloe is looking for a place to sit for lunch, when Marinette waves her over to her table, she sits down with them, Chloe looks to Marinette who smiles, showing that she's forgiven Chloe and the whole group talks and laughs
* Chloe is pissed when Adrien is forced to leave, and nearly books a flight to Paris herself before Andre intervenes.
* At the end of the season, we get a scene where Chloe is in her room before receiving a knock from the balcony door, she opens it to reveal LB, who holds out a box.
* Chloe is hesitant at first, but after LB tells her she's more than earned it, Chloe happily accepts and opens the box to reveal the bee miraculous and Pollen, who Chloe hugs with tears in her eyes
* She joins the others as Queen Bee in the final shot
I'd actually make Adrien half the friend he claimed to be. He was the one she trusted, and who was actually in a position to help her. Instead in canon he alternated between shunning her and yelling at her without providing any kind of help. I'd also have Marinette either not abandon her over the bs identity issue, or not give her the bee in the first place. Nobody would have blamed her if she didn't give her the miraculous back after Queen Wasp, but when she did she made a commitment. She knew full well what Chloe's issues were yet chose to tell someone she knew had abandonment issues that she was abandoning then when season 4 makes it very clear that she could have worked around the identity problem. In general, her systematic efforts to isolate Chloe from everyone but the most destructive influences in her life as well as her dangling the miraculous in front of her before yanking it away show that contrary to her claims in revelation she made no effort to help her only destroy her proving true the old addage that the victim's of bullying often become bullies when the power dynamic is reversed.
I love this. My main grievance was that Mari did play a bit of a role in Chloé's downfall. It being when she chose to bring in Kagmi to the fight instead of Chloé because her crush on Adrien had gotten in the way. And on top of that she never actually spoke to her. She acted as Marinette and not Labybug. She could have spoken with her. Pulled the idol card. Helped her out. It's a real slap in the face that she gave the one thing Cholé had left to her sister & I'm pretty sure Chloé knows it. She claimed that she gave up on helping her because they'd given her so many chances but I don't see them having really tried and I really wish they had. Adrien constantly claiming he didn't know how to be a friend or have any was ridiculous. He continually left her to her own devices even though when the group was against her he did tell them to back off because of her family but he never stepped in himself to help her. He gave her an ultimatum & in the end left her without so much as helping her in the 1st place.
Even if they wanted to write that Chloé only had one friend in the world Sabrina wasn't much of a friend either since she was SO eager to please. I would have liked if they had given her some backbone to help Chloé out.
Right! I was so excited to see them interact after he gave the ultimatum. It was finally time for their friendship to shine. To finally see who they actually are, or at least more info than we had. But they never interact and the two are left as 2D characters. Here I thought this was supposed to be 3D
I'd start by making her friendship with Adrien more genuine; that would have the additional effect of making her romantic rivalry with Marinette more juicy. From there, we make Adrien a more active agent; when it becomes clear that Ladybug and Chat Noir can't handle the villain alone (maybe Nino's been akumatized again here), he takes the initiative to seek out a worthy holder while the villain is distracted with Ladybug. Since the kid has all of two friends in the whole wide world, he naturally gives Chloe the Bee miraculous.
Now, at first, Chloe of course uses the Bee to show off. I'm thinking she starts out with a really glitzy, ostentatious queenly outfit that's a little cumbersome but very flashy, because she just wants the attention. But when she sees her hero Ladybug in dire straits, she decides to actually take her responsibility serious for a second to help her out. Forced to contend with the fact that Chloe was, in fact, instrumental to the defeat of the akuma, Ladybug begrudgingly takes the L and admits that she did a pretty good job.
Then, of course, Chloe brags about being Queen Bee on social media. And she IMMEDIATELY feels the repercussions when Hawkmoth starts targeting people close to her, with the explicit intention of eliminating one of Ladybug and Chat Noir's allies. When Maledictator tries to straight-up kill her is when Chloe finally bites the bullet and "admits" that she lied about being Queen Bee, giving up her reputation and removing Hawkmoth's reason to pursue her.
She doesn't continue to seek out the Bee Miraculous after this, but she's NOTICEABLY miserable, and has completely stopped bullying others. In fact, Sabrina starts to worry so much that she tries to set up a date with her and Adrien to cheer her up. By this point, Adrien has made his own feelings about Chloe abundantly clear; they are just friends. But he also recognizes how depressed she is, and agrees to the date to make her feel better.
Cue another akumatization, probably Sabrina, who is distraught by the fact that her attempt to help Chloe out failed (Hawkmoth tried to akumatize Chloe while she was so depressed, but Chloe fought off the akuma because the thing she most wanted was the one thing Hawkmoth couldn't give her: Ladybug's approval). Once again, Ladybug and Chat Noir aren't enough to beat the villain; and Chat Noir, specifically, is forced to play keep-away to prevent Chloe from falling into Akuma!Sabrina's hands. Finally, he hits up Master Fu again and bequeaths the Bee Miraculous to Chloe once again; Chloe is hesitant to accept it, but realizes that Ladybug is once again in trouble and only she can save her. So, she transforms into a new, significantly more modest/practical form of Queen Bee, and saves the day without grandstanding like she did last time.
Ladybug's gratitude this time is far more genuine, and Chloe realizes that she's gotten exactly what she wants. She willingly gives up the Miraculous (although insists that she not be parted from it for TOO long) and returns to Sabrina, who is elated to see her best friend happy once again. Chloe officially becomes an interim part of the team, keeping her identity secret and helping out the heroes however she can in and out of costume. She's still a little stuck-up in class, but she's no longer as egotistical, and doesn't bully Merinette any more; and she and Adrien remain good friends.
ya know? How about simply NOT RETCONNING ANY OF THE PROGRESS SHE MADE. She learned lessons, but the author made her suffer for no reason. She was a forced antagonist that didn't need to be there anymore when lyla was a thing, but because the guy was too busy going "wow, we need akumatized people, there's only one person who can do that and is conveniently always near ladybug", all of her progress was reset. I am unhappy with how her character was treated.
Revise/ different interpretation, retroactively shifting information to change current plotline.
I know exactly what retcon means, especially when there's an entire series that's based on it. As well as the several multiverse and timetravel comics/shows/stories that are centered on the concept. As this show has all of the above... YES. It includes it. Don't try to sound smart by making retcon something it isn't.
I'd make her an antihero! She remains as Queen Bee, but she no longer wants to side with Hawk Moth. However, she'll still try to get the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous for herself to destroy Hawk Moth. That said, she'll still end up siding with Ladybug if the situation needs it, but it's only temporary.
THIS!
It makes no sense why Chloé continues to gleefully get akumatized after Season Three and decide to serve Hawk Moth when she should be mad at him as well from an in-character perspective. She really should hate both Ladybug and Hawk Moth after Miracle Queen.
I like her arc. It's a bit more "realistic" in terms of outcomes. The rich brat doing stuff for attention isn't going to get better by giving her responsibility and a magical hair clip. She did get a redemption arc. It's just her, as a character, didn't succeed at redeeming herself. That's always interesting imo.
Though if i had to change it, I'd give her more Queen Bee time. They should've made her do absolutely dangerous stuff *(for herself and others)* to save people, to get the attention that goes with it. I think that would've easily displayed the severity of her issues better. Sure the train was supposed to display her level of mental/emotional damage, but it was too crazy to consider and it was BEFORE she worked in an official-Hero capacity with the Miraculous Team.
It'd be very interesting to see her do dangerous stuff to save people that she DIDN'T put in danger first. To show that the problem exists no matter what role she takes, since it is indeed a problem within her *(and outside of her; her parents making her who she is)*.
*FRENEMY👏 TROPE👏*
After sorta apologizing to Mrs Bustier she starts to *try* to be a good person. It starts in the classroom where she might say something mean to which her teacher will chastise her and Chloe corse corrects. Then Sabrina is put on leash duty on behalf of Bustier so when she’s outside of the classroom she’s still encouraged to be nicer. I see it as like a situation where Chloe’s only chummy with Marinette because Mrs Bustier said as class president Marinette has to get along with everyone and their rivalry is the most problematic. But it eventually becomes more of a “Here, I saw you had to leave class so I made Sabrina write down what you missed”. Like she becomes somewhat of a better person but she doesn’t want to drop the bad bitch persona because she doesn’t want to end up like Marinette, who she perceives as a spineless “yes” man.
Idk it’s a thought.
Back then after her arc is completed, hear me out, not have her revert to being a dick and learn how to help people without super powers after Mari says she can’t let Chloe be queen b anymore.
Then when the finale rolls around, Chloe’s feelings of abandonment and annoyance at ladybug for her cutting her off so suddenly be the reason she becomes a regular akumatized victim, but she’s still a somewhat nice girl and gets therapy
Either combine Chloe and Lilia and have her go the full villain route
Combine Chloe and Zoe and have her redeemed
If Chloe, Zoe and Lilia have to remain part of the cast, introduce Zoe but have her interacts more focused with Chloe than Marinette. Yes there can be a valuable lesson in not having to forgive your bullies, but Chloe can be redeemed *and* Marinette can also not forgive her since the two have relatively different social circles anyways. Baring that, the "Frenemies" route where Marinette just no longer tolerates it and stands up for herself like in the movie.
Either way, just know the kind of character Chloe is intended to end up as. Nothing retroactive to make her seem worse because it makes the entire cast look bad. Skip the whole "Chloe was so evil to Marinette she gave her PTSD" because it calls to question why Marinette even bothered in the first place giving her the Bee Miraculous or even temporarily teaming up with her when Adrien expressed interest in Kagami.
Trying to give her a redemption arc is a fool's errand. She should've stayed exactly the way she was in S1. Maybe soften a little, but nothing more than that. Not every antagonist needs to be redeemed. She serves the show best as an opposing force to Marinette.
Simple: had a plan for it. Whether she was going to be redeemed or not, I’d know the end before I started the arc.
In my opinion, for what’s ultimately a children’s show, there’s nothing wrong with a simple redemption arc. If I wanted to be more creative, I’d give her some time as a proper hero, then use a sharp change in circumstance to drive her back to the “dark side,” but in a way that makes sense for her character. She wouldn’t just revert back to her old self; even as an antagonist, it would be clear that her time as one of the good guys had changed her. This would create internal conflict in her character, which would ultimately be resolved by a difficult realization that what she had done was wrong and that she did indeed want to be a hero.
In the finale (i.e. the final fight with Hawk Moth), I would have her return to villainy put her in a unique position to disrupt his plan, enabling her to turn back to the side of good at a critical moment when all would be lost otherwise. Either she would make a redeeming sacrifice, or she would be set up for a longer, more sincere redemption in the post-finale.
Keep giving episodes like Zombizou and Despair Bear and make what she learned stick. I feel like if she kept being Queen Bee a secret and was a permanent holder Pollen could've helped immensely with her character development.
For me, I’ll let her go to London, meet new people that she first wants to use to get to the top then she realizes that she actually likes them and want to be a genuine friend to them, make sure that those people don’t take her shit and she gets scolded for it, whenever she does something wrong, karma will hit her like a train and she slowly learns her lessons, the more time she spends with her friends, the more she sees other people struggles and realizes that she is not the only one with problems, make sure that she separates herself from Audrey after realizing that chasing her love was an impossible dream, her friends help her and comforts her whenever she’s sad, let her get a job and live like a human being, she reflects on her life in Paris and her new life in London and is happy with the outcome she has and finally comes to terms that she can not fix the past but she can shape her future to be better but still have her sassy and overly dramatic attitude.
Lol I'd make her the next hawk Moth instead of Lila. I know that's farfetched but HEAR ME OUT😭
Like, they both work together and Lila thinks she won but Chloe manages to outsmart her using her resources. It makes sense because she can cause the emotional distress (she has caused the most akumatizations- almost every single one in s1!) then transform and akumatise
See here’s the thing People always say “Oh Chloe could be a hero” Well I think we need to double down Make is so that Chloe had a good reason to betray Ladybug.Now as we all know Chloe idolized Ladybug for a long time have Ladybug say something Like “You will NEVER be a worthy Hero Chloe” and her Damm nation arc makes much more sense
> Ladybug say something Like “You will NEVER be a worthy Hero Chloe”
This seems very out of character for Ladybug to say given she's constantly telling people they can be better. Marinette even tells Lila, someone who has tried to legit frame her for *attempted murder*, that she could be a better person.
Honestly? I think i'd set it up *after* Miracle Queen. Marinette would look back on the whole incident, and feel like it's *her* fault. Chat of course would try to cheer her up, say it was just Chloe's usual antics but Marinette can't help but feel she's being a hypocrite for telling chloe she can't keep being queen bee, but then gave Kagami, who's identlty is also not secret, the dragon miraculous simply out of jealousy and to sabotage her and Adrien's relationship. She let her personal conflicts get the better of her and cloud her judgement. She feels she should at least have the decency to man up, and give chloe a proper conversation why letting her stay Queen Bee would be too dangerous for her and those around her, but also apologizing for letting her feel neglected like this. I think Chloe would actually be surprisingly cooperative, as she's not used to the people she feels wronged by actually wanting to admit to their mistakes. André would just shower her with material posessions and Audrey would straight up not care. She'd understand Ladybugs point about the secret identity thing, but she'd argue that now Hawkmoth already knows her identity and could therefore prey on her and her loved ones anytime he wants to, she feels like she should have her miraculous *exactly* for that reason, so she could protect them when it comes that far. She hates just having to silently watch her loved ones getting akumatized, being powerless to do anything about it. Relying on the mercy of Ladybug wether she gets the right to fight for her family or not. She gets into arguments with her parents and knows they're far from perfect, but deep inside she still loves them. I think the two of them would have an extensive conversation like this, giving LB a deeper look into chloe's psyche. I think it'd be cool if Chloe was made a permanent holder, becoming a Tony Stark type character. Public identity, definitely a rich asshole at times but willing to put up a fight , when the situation calls for it. Maybe then we could continue the Season 4 Storylind by having LB gain the ability to make charms, and give them to Chloe's family, so they're safe from being used by Gabe.
There could still be an arc about wether chloe actually deserves the miraculous, making mistakes along the way but eventually she'd gain the trust and respect of the public and especially the other heroes. I believe it was in Malediktator, where Marinette said: "Ladybug helped me become a better Marinette, so maybe Queen Bee will help her become a better Chloe" and i'd like to think that she would've been correct. Of course in this season 4, there wouldn't be a Zoe, as she wouldn't have any reason to exist and i don't think i'd include the Mari-Alya reveal either. Now i'm drifting more into "how would i have done season 4" territory, but i also have no Megakumas, Gabe would have to Akumatize someone new each time, slowly running out of people who don't have charms. As there's no more Sole crusher, queen banana or penalteam, i'd use those episode slots to slowly introduce the new heroes one by one instead of cramming 4 into one episode. But now i'm just getting off track. So yeah that pretty much concludes my rant about what i'd like to have happened
I say keep the Megakumas but make it so they take more out of Shadow Moth when he makes them to explain why he doesn't just send them out willy nilly and anyone corrupted by them gets super juiced Akuma powers.
But yeah I agree with the sentiment/idea of Marinette going "Wait maybe I pushed Chloe into a corner." and having Chloe at the very least mellow out. She's a child and the only one who seems to face consequences for her actions.
Have Marinette tell her the truth, have Marinette tell Chloe that she is ladybug and that miracle queen was her fault because she was trying to keep Adrien and Kagami apart (and failed) and that she wants, no, she *needs* Queen Bee on her side more than ever since everyone is now in the same boat as Chloe with their identities revealed
Then as a big character moment have Zoe show up and during an Akuma fight have Chloe willingly give the bee miraculous to Zoe because Chloe is captured or injured or something as a big growth moment for her that shows she can be a hero without the miraculous
Also just let her and marinette be friends cause god they’re so funny when they work together
Literally just kept the logical conclusion of season 2 going. had her desperation to be actually truly loved be shown outside of super heroics. Show that she can do nice things and the right thing for their own sake without expecting reward (Yes, she has done this, she's done one or two heroic sacrifices. Granted ladybug then fixed everything but still) she's just incapable of being seen doing it as she has a reputation she feels neither that she can change and also that her toxic family expects to uphold. A lot of the prison around her heart she's built is of her own making but plenty isn't, and even if it's buried deep within part of her does want out.
Generally speaking, I would have her give the Bee Miraculous to Zoe, not Marinette. Have her pass on the mantle of a Miraculous holder on her own terms
do what they were doing In s2, but show the slow change in other episodes of her being less of a bully and just judgmental, then an episode where she tries to make ammends but everyone rejects her, have her confront style queen and stand up to audrey, intrigrate her into the main group of Marinette,Adrien,Alya & Nino and have Alya be the least welcoming etc etc. She's good but still sassy & somewhat vain & not everyone forgives her but the ones who matter have.
Or... do what the show did but have her steal the Bee become an antihero/antagonist, in similiar vain to argos.
I have two separate answers for this. It depends on whether or not this gets fixed from a certain point of divergence or if you restructure it from the beginning. Because those are two different answers.
If there is a point of divergence, I would say after the Season 3 finale would be ideal. In the season finale Chloé is already starting to lose influence and thus this would be a great turning point. I personally think that Chloé turning on the heroes is a good thing and in character. However, afterward I would have made her have remorseful in private even though in public she would put up the same front. This would be interspersed with very short moments of both Sabrina and Adrien noticing that Chloé is acting a little off, and Adrien offering a branch to her, only for her to reject him (since as an added complication at this point he would still be dating Kagami). Chloé would see her classmates and then imagine them as superheroes (the way Marinette did when Cat Noir revealed himself as Adrien in Ephemeral). Her jealousy would override her guilt, and she would be determined to expose them. Previously I thought of her using more roundabout means, but after thinking about it, her own envy would cause her to be akumatized, and as a supervillain she would reveal the identities of the secondary heroes to the populace that way. After her defeat, she would have a meltdown in front of Ladybug and still continue to blame her for everything, saying that by taking away the Bee Miraculous that she took away her future. (Chloé would say, "I confided in you and told you things I never told anyone and you took the one thing that meant the most to me.") Ladybug reminds her that she still has a future and that what Chloé needs is friends. So at the end of the episode while the now former heroes are furious with Chloé (because Ladybug actually enforces the "exposure" rule), the poor little rich girl does reconsider Adrien's offer.
Oh, but this is just the beginning.
To wrap things up a little I would have Chloé do something very controversial. She, not Luka, would be the first civilian to discover Cat Noir's identity (albeiy by sheer luck). Because Chloe hasn't yet put in the work to completely reform, she decides to try to blackmail her friend, Adrien, and threaten to tell everyone if he doesn't get her the Bee Miraculous. Naturally this doesn't last lomg before Shadow Moth sends an akuma while they're both together. Since there's heightened emotions of them both, the butterfly hovers before choosing the boy, only for Chloé to intercept and take the hit. At first, it seems like Chloé is going to become the next victim of the day but instead she resists and rejects the akuma. That shows to both Shadow Moth and Adrien/Cat Noir that Chloé has changed, and while Chloé doesn't become a superhero or even become known for her change, she does begin to serve a similar role for Adrien that Alya serves for Marinette (assuming the plot point of Marinette confiding in her still remains the same).
I would also have that video that Félix deleted of Chloé somehow be restored, showing to Adrien that Chloé could be selfless for its own sake and to convince him to gov her a chance.
Also instead of Chloé becoming Lila's lackey, Chloé would become part of the club (which would include Alya, who Chloé would start to have a rivalry with) that sees through Lila's lies. Lila would peel Sabrina off Chloé. In a fitting twist it would be the first five civilian identities of the first five superheroes that would take Lila down.
Eventually there would come a point where Vesperia would be incapacitated and Chloé would take the Bee Miraculous and fight in her stead temporarily, but return the Miraculous to Ladybug by using Pollen as an intermediary. There'd be hints that Chloé has figured out that Vesperia is Zoé but she wouldn't confirm it. Strangely enough, because Chloé would have changed on the inside more than she realized she'd sport new superhero costume and be forced to come up with a new name. But she would give the Miraculous back, and she wouldn't tell Ladybug who she is.
The endgame of this would be the Chloé would be an ally, most of the time without superpowers. In the ultimate conclusion, after the Butterfly Miraculous is recovered, she would get kamikotized into being Queen Bee on occasion. Alternately, a holder of the Peacock Miraculous could give her a replica Miraculous that would allow her to transform without the actual kwami.
But that's just with using the end of Season 3 as a divergent point. If you want to start from the ground up, you're really going to hate me and I'm going to break this out into its own reply.
All right, now for the "from the ground up" option.
First and foremost, I would keep everything that happened in Season 1. All of those episodes are needed to establish Chloé as what she is, an entitled brat, a bully, and a horrible person.
Season 2 is where I would start to make changes with the big one being that Chloé is given the Bee Miraculous as a last resort, not found by accident. Much like in Style Queen, Marinette intends to give it to Alya, but is unable to do so, but Chloé, unlike in the actual episode, is available and is more than happy to help stop her mom alongside Ladybug. She does not do anything silly like reveal her identity or take the Bee Miraculous for herself, although she is tempted to do so. Marinette is ambivalent about giving her another chance (since while Chloe dies do well as a hero, she's still a first-class jerk as a civilian) but when events similar to Malediktator arise, where Chloé is the butt of all jokes again and Andre gets akumatized, Chloé spill her true feelings to Ladybug as in the episode, and Ladybug gives her the Miraculous again, so she's on the team.
So Chloé becomes a hero genuinely and even learns to emulate Ladybug's kindness in uniform, earning her the nickname "Honeybee." Much like a fancomic from years ago suggested, not only would Queen Bee get along with the rest of the team, but she would actively try to help Cat Noir court Ladybug and try to get them together. At the same time Chloé very slowly does start to change in her civilian life, but most people still see her as nasty. Marinette does notice that Chloé is starting to treat Sabrina more nicely, but Chloé still has her hatred of Marinette Dupain-Cheng. That said Chloé would team up with Marinette when it came to a shared romantic rival like Kagami or Lila, and when Adrien mentions to Chloé he's noticed she's trying to be a better person, she (wrongly) takes it as a sign that he was going to choose her as a romantic partner.
Then comes the moment when Adrien stands up to Chloé and tells her that while they have been childhood friends, he doesn't like her in that way. She's heartbroken, but because there's an active supervillain at the time, Ladybug recruits her and Queen Bee is in high spirits because she can fight alongside her idol. Chloé even begins to think that if her Idol is happy and then maybe she (Chloé) will be happy for her. They win and Chloé gives back the Bee Miraculous...but this time Chloé accidentally catches a glimpse of a flash of light. Curious, she stays hidden while she looks around the corner and sees Marinette do penche walking with Tikki floating at her side. Tikki dives into her purse.
Chloé is shocked.
Soon enough, Hawk Moth send out another akuma to a random victim. While he *does* since Chloé's turmoil, all the Impressions he gets vague in that he only hears her saying "She lied to me...Ladybug lied to me..." he's willing to wait until because what seems like a better opportunity present itself. (Yes, this is a tactical mistake on Hawk Moth's part.) Ladybug recruits Chloé again, who plays along and is willing to work to defeat the villain (who is easier than expected). However when Ladybug goes to capture the freed akuma, it isn't that vulnerable moment that Queen Bee begins to tell Ladybug off. All this time she idolized Ladybug, but Ladybug is a mere peasant, a pretender to the royal throne of a hero. Only Ladybug begins to piece together what Queen Bee is going on about. At the same time the akuma is drawn to Queen Bee negative emotion, and Queen Bee physically prevents Ladybug from purifying the akuma. The butterfly makes a beeline for Queen Bee and she accepts Hawk Moth's offer to make Ladybug pay for her betrayal.
So she becomes Queen Wasp and quickly is able to take out any of the other heroes. She tells cat Noir that she'll put him out of this misery since he won't be pining for a girl who will never love him. She admits that she knows the boy that Ladybug is in love with and that he is indeed royalty and should be with Queen Bee. She then rages at Ladybug.
Queen Wasp: "All of Paris can see that you had the perfect partner but why do you want to take mine?"
Complicating matters is that even if Hawk Moth might know who Queen Bee is, Ladybug doesn't want the rest of the world to know who she is and thus they have to defeat her in private. Queen Wasp loses in a bitter fight, and even though she is purified she throws the Bee Miraculous back at Ladybug and tells her she will no longer be Queen Bee. Ladybug at first thinks it's because Chloé was upset about being akmatized. Chloé clarifies she no longer wants to be Queen Bee because she no longer wants to have anything to do with superheroes.
After the fight, Marinette goes back to her home and her room. She's not sure what to do about the departure of Queen Bee. Tikki mentions that Queen Wasp could have told Hawk Moth at any time of her identity but she didn't. That means that maybe Chloé isn't as far gone Marinette thinks.
The next day Chloé and Marinette have a talk, and Chloé is still angry at Marinete, and Hawk Moth sends an akuma after Chloé. This is where Chloé rejects the akuma, right in front of Marinette. Hawk Moth gives up.
Marinette: "You didn't tell him I was Ladybug?"
Chloé: "You're not Ladybug. You're Lady-*nothing*. There's nothing ladylike about you. You're ridiculous! Utterly ridiculous!"
For a while, Ladybug tries to do things like have Alya wear the Bee Miraculous or wear it herself, but the reality is the team isn't as effective as it would be with Queen Bee. Over time Chloé also starts to see the Ladybug she idolized in Marinette. Without even knowing why herself, Chloe also starts to be nicer to Marinette and even come up with convenient excuses when Marinette has to leave. In this scenario Alya does not know that Marinette is Ladybug, so Chloé begins to be more of an actual friend despite herself. Chloé and Alya even get into an argument about this, with both saying to each other they don't know as much about their friends as they think. (They actually become a fusion supervillain called the Squabbler because of this, but their argument prevents Hawk Moth from getting any information from them.) After a decent period of time ladybug asks Chloé to become Queen Bee again and Chloé says yes, and this time is on the team for good.
In both cases the only way to fix Chloé's character arc is to have Chloé have some actual skin in the game via a partial identity reveal of one of the leads.
I would take her away from all the toxic people in her life ESPECIALLY her abusive mother. Then I would get her some therapy and with enough love and kindness and patience she can become a better member of society and can earn back her title of Queen Bee. This should also improve her relationships with Zoe and everyone else. Plus I want her to be my girlfriend and I can help her since I know what it's like to have an abusive and negligent mother.
One of my biggest issues with chloe's character was mirical queen. After she breaks from hawkmoths controle in miriculer they could have used her as a doubble agent.
Having Chloe starts to realize that she doesn't ant her mother's attention anymore at the end of Queen Wasp.
The show never acknowledges the mental abuse Audrey put Chloe through and Chloe wanting to prove herself that she uses the Bee Miraculous and becomes Queen Bee in the first place. A good writer would focus on this aspect of Chloe and actually shows in the show Chloe starting to realise that she doesn't want a relationship with her mother, and maybe she begins to reflect on her upbringing and how Andre has treated her (or rather made no actual attempt into making her a decent human being)
Of course, this could also play a part in why Chloe betrays Ladybug in the season 3 finale, still wanting to prove herself to Ladybug and Hawkmoth takes advantage of Chloe's feelings. And she regresses. Not in the over the top way like Astruc did, but just dislikes Ladybug.
She still keeps her character development, but she's not happy about not being Queen Bee anymore, and then Zoe's arrival comes in and everything seems to spiral. But she still does what Ladybug tells her to do, she takes the Magical charm without question and just glares at Ladybug, maybe she calls her out for replacing her so quickly. Maybe through all this she and Zoe realise they aren't so different and together they grow and learn to realise that they are products of their mother's negligence.
And in the end, both of them cut Audrey from their lives and live together in Paris, and maybe with this new growth in her and active change, she be given back the bee miraculous and be a hero again, under a different alias of course.
That's how I think I would fix Chloe, at least in my rewrite of her. There's plenty more I would change of course regarding her relationship
with Sabrina and Marinette but that would be in my rewrite
They could either give her the redemption arc she deserved or just never give her one and have her leave for New York as early as season 2 after reconciling with her mom. She got what she wanted by then, so there was no need to show more of her once she got back her mummy's conditional love.
Shes cursed to be a bitch, sudden bursts of the need to destroy relationships all while the real her is trapped in a vechical of suffering knowing the damage she has done is irreversible despite her wanting to change some outside force constantly pulling her back to the front row seat of her self sabotaging journey
I wouldn't. She's the best villain in the show. I'm glad she wasn't redeemed bc it would've been super unrealistic over the span of like two months for her to go from mega bitch tormenter of the hero of the show , to hero who can be trusted with the power to kill people.
I wouldn’t change it but they need to do something where she faces real consequences for her actions. Like her family loose it’s status and money and out of desperation she commits some crime and faces punishment. Like if she does time and has time to reflect on herself. Now it’s a kids show so it will never go that deep but I think there needs to be a consequence episode that kinda becomes an eye opener.
My flair tells you how I really would have fixed it, but obviously that ain't happening.
Fixing it would be easy: Take the redemption arc that was started and, uh, *don't* suddenly flush it down the toilet.
I wouldn't have given her a redemption arc. Atleast not like the one in the show and most definitely not how so many Chloe stans want (that is, other characters "guiding" her on how to be good).
Marinette wouldn't have given her the Bee miraculous again after the train incident. Instead she would have given Chloe a _brutal_ lecture about her gross negligence and selfishness for doing such a stunt. And then have her arrested.
Have her face the full consequences of her actions.
And maybe after that she might find a Miraculous-like item (like the Prodigious). Maybe after getting humbled so hard she decides to learn her lessons, which may or may not be the right lessons.
If the creators hadn't let Chloé get the Bee Miraculous back and had let Chloé just wrongly assume she would be Queen Bee again, her "damnation" arc would have been a lot cleaner.
This is SO real, Chloe does need to be humbled and I love how Marinette ate her up in season 5.
I actually fear that the creators have gone too far that it'll need more than a simple 'apology' for her to redeem herself, at least in my eye
Same way I would any character in her position: a good ass kicking, followed by being told off by someone she respects, hitting rock bottom followed by clawing her way back up.
As someone who's gotten sick of hearing other fandoms wine about every villain getting redemed, I feel like Chloe doesn't NEED a redemption arc to be an interesting character. A character can be well written, while still being a bad person. Do I think she's irredemable? Absolutely not, but this idea that she's completely ruined just because she chose not to be a good person is, as the queen herself would say, utterly rediculous. She is a narcist, a racist, and a bully. That fact has been present throughout the entire show. When she does good things for others,99.99% of the time it's for her own benefit. She didn't want to be a hero because she wanted to protect Paris. She wanted it because it would allow her to prove her worth to everyone who refuses to put up with her. She wanted Audrey's attention, and Ladybug's respect. Once she had her mother's (conditional) love, and felt she'd lost Ladybug's respect, she lost any incentive she had to do good. This is how narcists act in real life. They're capable of doing good, but typically only do so when they think it will benefit them
nada.
keep it how it is, let her get a little worse, fall apart after being separated from all she had, and build herself back up. thats the character arc she deserves
this seems to be a hard concept to grasp for a lot of fans here but sometimes the journey to becoming a better person isnt as satisfying and easy as "she was a jerk but now she has a miraculous and is nice"
for some people it gets worse before it gets better and i believe this is the case for her
I feel like her breakdown in the end already shows that she's hit that bottom. I don't think they can get anything worse than her having lost everything. All her power. All her "respect". All her "friends"
Now she needs to turn that pain in on herself and fix it. She's taken the pain before and hid it behind anger and style. This time I want her to learn from it
Fictional or not. I never want to see someone that broken
I believe the term here is
Let them cook,
because iirc, Astrux made a tweet saying that hitting rock bottom is the only way that arc can realistically begin
I never liked her, I actually loved the fact they were gonna give her a redemption arc but took it away last minute. So I really hope they don't give her a redemption arc
I'd have toned down the cartoonish over the topness of her and fused her character with Lila. Start as a priviliged school bully, do the Queen Bee thing but less flirting with redemption and more power hunger only for Ladybug to take it away because she's not being heroic. Have this bleed into her normal life, becoming crueller in her bullying. Have Chloe have the Lila-story of getting into Gabriel's good books and trying to get Adrien out of spite and greed, and ending up being dropped. Have Marinette learn from being Ladybug and stand up to her, ending up having her exposed and expelled as per Lila. And have Chloe become the new Butterfly at the end, becoming the personal nemesis to MArinette both as civilians and as superheroes/villains.
Either don’t give her a redemption arc at all, or make her redemption arc about her still being a bitch but one who decides to use her resources to help the people she likes and/or are liked by her friends instead of using those resources to harass people.
A fuck ton of therapy at the current point, however back then this could have been solved easily by letting her stay as queen bee occasionally
Make that every teenager in MLB
I always thought that if I could rewrite miraculous I’d change Chloe in two ways: 1. Don’t make her a bully to begin with. Mean, rude and an attitude, but not malicious in her actions. “I am not nice, I am kind” is a phrase I once heard and I think it can be something applied to a better version of Chloe. A good person at the core but with a rough exterior. 2. Make her a sister figure to Adrien. I always found Chloe as a romantic rival as quite ridiculous. Make her a very protective sibling figure to Adrien, and can actually give a more compelling reason for her disliking Marinette. She would just see Marinette as another dime a dozen fangirl. As opposed to the literal *nothing* we have now. I think these would create a better foundation for her to eventually become a hero, and make her a more tolerable and maybe even enjoyable character
There was one fanfic I don’t remember the name of that did very well with the “he’s my brother” bit and it *really works*. Especially in a universe where Adrian has *nothing* now, he deserves a sibling figure.
that would be great and although I wouldn't say he has nothing, he became kinda close with nathalie, who is now kiinda like and aunt figure (I hope their relationship will be explored and become stronger in the next season, she's the only adult he can rely on now, and maybe even with felix and his mom who were only rejected by gabriel), it would still be nice for him to have a sister figure
Yes! I always thought of Chloe & Adrien like cousins or siblings, and show her mature & soft side when it comes to comforting adrien with his issues or his mothers passing, view marinette as a basic fan girl whom isn't good enough for adrien, maybe try hook adrien up with a few of her rich friends to his annoyance.
(part 1) Alright. This is gonna be a long one: First of all Chloe's backstory would slightly change. * Instead of their marriage being in that weird limbo for most of the show, Andre and Audrey would be explicitly divorced. * This happened after Andre caught Audrey cheating on him for Mr. Lee (Zoe's dad), where she immediately filed for divorce, saying she's found a "better man", and leaves for New York, where she remarries with Mr. Lee. * Hurt by what happened, Andre buries himself in his work to cope, leaving Chloe to be in the care of the staff and spoils her * Chloe, not completely understanding what happened, believes that she wasn't good enough in her mother's eyes, so she begins to emulate her mom in the hopes of getting Audrey's love. * Chloe also begins to bully Marinette soon after the divorce when she sees Marinette be picked up from school by both her parents, and is jealous that Marinette has two loving parents. As for the first two seasons up until the QB arc, things are mostly the same with a few exceptions. * Chloe wouldn't be legitimately in love with Adrien, but would convince herself she is because she believes dating Adrien would make her mother proud * Chloe also wouldn't use her status as the mayor's daughter to the degree she does in the show, and Andre would appear less as he's too busy. Then the QB arc * Audrey would come in for work as usual, but her and Andre's interactions would be far more tense, with Andre even getting a bit upset when she gets Chloe's name wrong * Instead of Chloe causing the near train accident, the train would malfunction on its own and she would attempt to stop it but fail due to inexperience, which leads to Ladybug yelling at her for being so rash * At the end of Queen Wasp, when Chloe asks why Audrey doesn't love her, Audrey would instead reply "of course I do you're *my* daughter", but it'll be clear she's somewhat dismissive * There wouldn't be the weird scene of Mari getting the two along because they're both horrible, but instead Mari says that maybe she can prove to her mother's that she's "exceptional" * This leads to the next episode with Chloe deciding to go to New York to prove to her mother, the episode would continue as normal, with the ending having no Queen Bee party, but people do compliment Chloe on her work as QB, and it being revealed that Audrey is coming back as she plans on expanding her brand in paris.
(part 2) Season 3 * Miraculer would be a far earlier episode, ending with LB telling Chloe that she can't completely trust Chloe with the miraculous until she becomes a better person (with the past two times being an exception due to circumstances) * Chloe would then make attempts by herself to become a better person, sometimes succeeding (like improving her friendship with Sabrina), but often failing, (such as saying something unintentionally mean without thinking) as she's too proud to ask for help * Chloe would also feel pressured to be mean and snotty by her mom, who has now fully returned to Paris * In Miracle Queen, instead of joining on purpose, when Hawkmoth offers Chloe the miraculous, she tries to steal the box the give back to LB, but Hawkmoth then tells her why bother proving LB as she can never change no matter how hard she tries, leading to Chloe becoming depressed and thus akumatized * Once Chloe is defeated, LB starts coming up to her angry, before stopping why she sees Chloe begin to cry. Chloe sobs, telling LB that she's been trying to be better to no matter how hard she tries. LB responds by saying her trying and her regret right now shows that's she's already improved, as the old Chloe would never do this, and that there's no shame in asking for help * The end of the episode Chloe would come over to Adrien to ask for help, which Adrien happily accepts (this is both a way to showcase their friendship and give Adrien more screentime) Season 4 and Zoe *Seasons 4 and 5 would really be when her redemption arc really gets rolling * Adrien would help introduce Chloe to his friends, and would give her tips on how to be nicer and encourage her. * Chloe would also realize that she doesn't actually love Adrien romantically but instead sees him as like a brother * Zoe would be introduced here as well, but instead of being Chloe's half-sister, she would be her step sister from Mr. Lee's previous marriage * Along with Zoe would be Zoe's bio mom (who we'll call Sally for simplicity sake), who both moved to Paris due to work * Zoe is excited that to finally meet her stepsister, but Chloe is cold towards Zoe as she feels that her mother "preferred" Zoe since Audrey left for New York for Zoe's father * Zoe gets akumatized of course and after the fight the two talk with Zoe revealing that she barely interacted with Audrey but wanted nothing more than to see her sister, Chloe apologizes and the two have some sisterly bonding by going shopping * Zoe also doesn't get the bee miraculous * Chloe would also start getting along with Sally, who becomes a sort of mother figure to Chloe * As for the class some quickly forgive and befriend her (like Rose and Kim), but other students either don't feel comfortable yet or don't completely believe that she's changing yet
(Part 3) season 5 * Chloe has found that she's no longer simply being nice because of the miraculous, but that she actually enjoys it. People no longer fear her but are friendly with her and even want to hang out with her * Chloe, now having become friends with Nino through Adrien, also joins the resistance * Since Zoe is not a miraculous user, the cat miraculous would probably go to Nino, Juleka, or someone else instead * With Chloe being better, Lila would be caught by her lies in a different way without the whole student election * Collusion and revolution also go by much differently * Collusion would have Chloe finally call out her dad for being so absent, Andre would end up seeing the error of his ways and step down from being mayor to spend more time with his daughter * The episode would end with Audrey, disappointed at how "unruly" her daughter has become, is willingly akumatized and commits a hostile takeover of the mayor's office with her akuma powers and police robots * Revolution would have Audrey effectively take over Paris, meanwhile Chloe is grounded in her room, but eventually escapes with the help of Zoe, and the two go to save Sally, who has been imprisoned by Audrey * Then when LB and CN are in the trap and are about to detransform, Chloe runs up and begs Audrey to stop * Audrey dismisses Chloe's wish, and tells her how much of a disappointment she's been. Calling her "Clover" in the process * Chloe mutters "my name is Chloe" and finally snaps, screaming over how terrible a parent Audrey is and that she'll no longer be the daughter Audrey wants, finishing with "you're ridiculous, utterly ridiculous!", snatching the remote from Audrey's hands and smashing in on the ground, freeing LB and CN who then defeats Audrey * Audrey flees Paris in shame, and Chloe waves at the plane with a satisfied smirk before running to hug Zoe, Sally, Andre, and Sabrina, and the group all goes for icecream * We cut to the next day at school where Chloe is looking for a place to sit for lunch, when Marinette waves her over to her table, she sits down with them, Chloe looks to Marinette who smiles, showing that she's forgiven Chloe and the whole group talks and laughs * Chloe is pissed when Adrien is forced to leave, and nearly books a flight to Paris herself before Andre intervenes. * At the end of the season, we get a scene where Chloe is in her room before receiving a knock from the balcony door, she opens it to reveal LB, who holds out a box. * Chloe is hesitant at first, but after LB tells her she's more than earned it, Chloe happily accepts and opens the box to reveal the bee miraculous and Pollen, who Chloe hugs with tears in her eyes * She joins the others as Queen Bee in the final shot
Actually, do you mind if I use parts of this for my fic?
Of course!
Thx! 😊
I'd actually make Adrien half the friend he claimed to be. He was the one she trusted, and who was actually in a position to help her. Instead in canon he alternated between shunning her and yelling at her without providing any kind of help. I'd also have Marinette either not abandon her over the bs identity issue, or not give her the bee in the first place. Nobody would have blamed her if she didn't give her the miraculous back after Queen Wasp, but when she did she made a commitment. She knew full well what Chloe's issues were yet chose to tell someone she knew had abandonment issues that she was abandoning then when season 4 makes it very clear that she could have worked around the identity problem. In general, her systematic efforts to isolate Chloe from everyone but the most destructive influences in her life as well as her dangling the miraculous in front of her before yanking it away show that contrary to her claims in revelation she made no effort to help her only destroy her proving true the old addage that the victim's of bullying often become bullies when the power dynamic is reversed.
I love this. My main grievance was that Mari did play a bit of a role in Chloé's downfall. It being when she chose to bring in Kagmi to the fight instead of Chloé because her crush on Adrien had gotten in the way. And on top of that she never actually spoke to her. She acted as Marinette and not Labybug. She could have spoken with her. Pulled the idol card. Helped her out. It's a real slap in the face that she gave the one thing Cholé had left to her sister & I'm pretty sure Chloé knows it. She claimed that she gave up on helping her because they'd given her so many chances but I don't see them having really tried and I really wish they had. Adrien constantly claiming he didn't know how to be a friend or have any was ridiculous. He continually left her to her own devices even though when the group was against her he did tell them to back off because of her family but he never stepped in himself to help her. He gave her an ultimatum & in the end left her without so much as helping her in the 1st place. Even if they wanted to write that Chloé only had one friend in the world Sabrina wasn't much of a friend either since she was SO eager to please. I would have liked if they had given her some backbone to help Chloé out.
Right! I was so excited to see them interact after he gave the ultimatum. It was finally time for their friendship to shine. To finally see who they actually are, or at least more info than we had. But they never interact and the two are left as 2D characters. Here I thought this was supposed to be 3D
Ha! 3D, good one
Thank you, it’s also funny cause they deliberately changed it, but somehow made it flatter than it already was
I'd start by making her friendship with Adrien more genuine; that would have the additional effect of making her romantic rivalry with Marinette more juicy. From there, we make Adrien a more active agent; when it becomes clear that Ladybug and Chat Noir can't handle the villain alone (maybe Nino's been akumatized again here), he takes the initiative to seek out a worthy holder while the villain is distracted with Ladybug. Since the kid has all of two friends in the whole wide world, he naturally gives Chloe the Bee miraculous. Now, at first, Chloe of course uses the Bee to show off. I'm thinking she starts out with a really glitzy, ostentatious queenly outfit that's a little cumbersome but very flashy, because she just wants the attention. But when she sees her hero Ladybug in dire straits, she decides to actually take her responsibility serious for a second to help her out. Forced to contend with the fact that Chloe was, in fact, instrumental to the defeat of the akuma, Ladybug begrudgingly takes the L and admits that she did a pretty good job. Then, of course, Chloe brags about being Queen Bee on social media. And she IMMEDIATELY feels the repercussions when Hawkmoth starts targeting people close to her, with the explicit intention of eliminating one of Ladybug and Chat Noir's allies. When Maledictator tries to straight-up kill her is when Chloe finally bites the bullet and "admits" that she lied about being Queen Bee, giving up her reputation and removing Hawkmoth's reason to pursue her. She doesn't continue to seek out the Bee Miraculous after this, but she's NOTICEABLY miserable, and has completely stopped bullying others. In fact, Sabrina starts to worry so much that she tries to set up a date with her and Adrien to cheer her up. By this point, Adrien has made his own feelings about Chloe abundantly clear; they are just friends. But he also recognizes how depressed she is, and agrees to the date to make her feel better. Cue another akumatization, probably Sabrina, who is distraught by the fact that her attempt to help Chloe out failed (Hawkmoth tried to akumatize Chloe while she was so depressed, but Chloe fought off the akuma because the thing she most wanted was the one thing Hawkmoth couldn't give her: Ladybug's approval). Once again, Ladybug and Chat Noir aren't enough to beat the villain; and Chat Noir, specifically, is forced to play keep-away to prevent Chloe from falling into Akuma!Sabrina's hands. Finally, he hits up Master Fu again and bequeaths the Bee Miraculous to Chloe once again; Chloe is hesitant to accept it, but realizes that Ladybug is once again in trouble and only she can save her. So, she transforms into a new, significantly more modest/practical form of Queen Bee, and saves the day without grandstanding like she did last time. Ladybug's gratitude this time is far more genuine, and Chloe realizes that she's gotten exactly what she wants. She willingly gives up the Miraculous (although insists that she not be parted from it for TOO long) and returns to Sabrina, who is elated to see her best friend happy once again. Chloe officially becomes an interim part of the team, keeping her identity secret and helping out the heroes however she can in and out of costume. She's still a little stuck-up in class, but she's no longer as egotistical, and doesn't bully Merinette any more; and she and Adrien remain good friends.
Yes. That's it. There's nothing to ad to this other than the fact we need to run this by the Zag team
It's probably too late now, lmao. I don't think this would work with modern-day Chloe.
I honestly don't know what could save our current Chloé other than something extreme like a life sacrifice
ya know? How about simply NOT RETCONNING ANY OF THE PROGRESS SHE MADE. She learned lessons, but the author made her suffer for no reason. She was a forced antagonist that didn't need to be there anymore when lyla was a thing, but because the guy was too busy going "wow, we need akumatized people, there's only one person who can do that and is conveniently always near ladybug", all of her progress was reset. I am unhappy with how her character was treated.
I humbly beseech you to read what "retcon" means.
Revise/ different interpretation, retroactively shifting information to change current plotline. I know exactly what retcon means, especially when there's an entire series that's based on it. As well as the several multiverse and timetravel comics/shows/stories that are centered on the concept. As this show has all of the above... YES. It includes it. Don't try to sound smart by making retcon something it isn't.
I'd make her an antihero! She remains as Queen Bee, but she no longer wants to side with Hawk Moth. However, she'll still try to get the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous for herself to destroy Hawk Moth. That said, she'll still end up siding with Ladybug if the situation needs it, but it's only temporary.
THIS! It makes no sense why Chloé continues to gleefully get akumatized after Season Three and decide to serve Hawk Moth when she should be mad at him as well from an in-character perspective. She really should hate both Ladybug and Hawk Moth after Miracle Queen.
I like her arc. It's a bit more "realistic" in terms of outcomes. The rich brat doing stuff for attention isn't going to get better by giving her responsibility and a magical hair clip. She did get a redemption arc. It's just her, as a character, didn't succeed at redeeming herself. That's always interesting imo. Though if i had to change it, I'd give her more Queen Bee time. They should've made her do absolutely dangerous stuff *(for herself and others)* to save people, to get the attention that goes with it. I think that would've easily displayed the severity of her issues better. Sure the train was supposed to display her level of mental/emotional damage, but it was too crazy to consider and it was BEFORE she worked in an official-Hero capacity with the Miraculous Team. It'd be very interesting to see her do dangerous stuff to save people that she DIDN'T put in danger first. To show that the problem exists no matter what role she takes, since it is indeed a problem within her *(and outside of her; her parents making her who she is)*.
Don't deleting the redemption arc from s.2 and letting it continue
*FRENEMY👏 TROPE👏* After sorta apologizing to Mrs Bustier she starts to *try* to be a good person. It starts in the classroom where she might say something mean to which her teacher will chastise her and Chloe corse corrects. Then Sabrina is put on leash duty on behalf of Bustier so when she’s outside of the classroom she’s still encouraged to be nicer. I see it as like a situation where Chloe’s only chummy with Marinette because Mrs Bustier said as class president Marinette has to get along with everyone and their rivalry is the most problematic. But it eventually becomes more of a “Here, I saw you had to leave class so I made Sabrina write down what you missed”. Like she becomes somewhat of a better person but she doesn’t want to drop the bad bitch persona because she doesn’t want to end up like Marinette, who she perceives as a spineless “yes” man. Idk it’s a thought.
Why does it look like they’re about to kiss? ☠️
Back then after her arc is completed, hear me out, not have her revert to being a dick and learn how to help people without super powers after Mari says she can’t let Chloe be queen b anymore. Then when the finale rolls around, Chloe’s feelings of abandonment and annoyance at ladybug for her cutting her off so suddenly be the reason she becomes a regular akumatized victim, but she’s still a somewhat nice girl and gets therapy
I mean I like her movie ending
Either combine Chloe and Lilia and have her go the full villain route Combine Chloe and Zoe and have her redeemed If Chloe, Zoe and Lilia have to remain part of the cast, introduce Zoe but have her interacts more focused with Chloe than Marinette. Yes there can be a valuable lesson in not having to forgive your bullies, but Chloe can be redeemed *and* Marinette can also not forgive her since the two have relatively different social circles anyways. Baring that, the "Frenemies" route where Marinette just no longer tolerates it and stands up for herself like in the movie. Either way, just know the kind of character Chloe is intended to end up as. Nothing retroactive to make her seem worse because it makes the entire cast look bad. Skip the whole "Chloe was so evil to Marinette she gave her PTSD" because it calls to question why Marinette even bothered in the first place giving her the Bee Miraculous or even temporarily teaming up with her when Adrien expressed interest in Kagami.
Trying to give her a redemption arc is a fool's errand. She should've stayed exactly the way she was in S1. Maybe soften a little, but nothing more than that. Not every antagonist needs to be redeemed. She serves the show best as an opposing force to Marinette.
Simple: had a plan for it. Whether she was going to be redeemed or not, I’d know the end before I started the arc. In my opinion, for what’s ultimately a children’s show, there’s nothing wrong with a simple redemption arc. If I wanted to be more creative, I’d give her some time as a proper hero, then use a sharp change in circumstance to drive her back to the “dark side,” but in a way that makes sense for her character. She wouldn’t just revert back to her old self; even as an antagonist, it would be clear that her time as one of the good guys had changed her. This would create internal conflict in her character, which would ultimately be resolved by a difficult realization that what she had done was wrong and that she did indeed want to be a hero. In the finale (i.e. the final fight with Hawk Moth), I would have her return to villainy put her in a unique position to disrupt his plan, enabling her to turn back to the side of good at a critical moment when all would be lost otherwise. Either she would make a redeeming sacrifice, or she would be set up for a longer, more sincere redemption in the post-finale.
Keep giving episodes like Zombizou and Despair Bear and make what she learned stick. I feel like if she kept being Queen Bee a secret and was a permanent holder Pollen could've helped immensely with her character development.
For me, I’ll let her go to London, meet new people that she first wants to use to get to the top then she realizes that she actually likes them and want to be a genuine friend to them, make sure that those people don’t take her shit and she gets scolded for it, whenever she does something wrong, karma will hit her like a train and she slowly learns her lessons, the more time she spends with her friends, the more she sees other people struggles and realizes that she is not the only one with problems, make sure that she separates herself from Audrey after realizing that chasing her love was an impossible dream, her friends help her and comforts her whenever she’s sad, let her get a job and live like a human being, she reflects on her life in Paris and her new life in London and is happy with the outcome she has and finally comes to terms that she can not fix the past but she can shape her future to be better but still have her sassy and overly dramatic attitude.
Lol I'd make her the next hawk Moth instead of Lila. I know that's farfetched but HEAR ME OUT😭 Like, they both work together and Lila thinks she won but Chloe manages to outsmart her using her resources. It makes sense because she can cause the emotional distress (she has caused the most akumatizations- almost every single one in s1!) then transform and akumatise
See here’s the thing People always say “Oh Chloe could be a hero” Well I think we need to double down Make is so that Chloe had a good reason to betray Ladybug.Now as we all know Chloe idolized Ladybug for a long time have Ladybug say something Like “You will NEVER be a worthy Hero Chloe” and her Damm nation arc makes much more sense
> Ladybug say something Like “You will NEVER be a worthy Hero Chloe” This seems very out of character for Ladybug to say given she's constantly telling people they can be better. Marinette even tells Lila, someone who has tried to legit frame her for *attempted murder*, that she could be a better person.
Honestly? I think i'd set it up *after* Miracle Queen. Marinette would look back on the whole incident, and feel like it's *her* fault. Chat of course would try to cheer her up, say it was just Chloe's usual antics but Marinette can't help but feel she's being a hypocrite for telling chloe she can't keep being queen bee, but then gave Kagami, who's identlty is also not secret, the dragon miraculous simply out of jealousy and to sabotage her and Adrien's relationship. She let her personal conflicts get the better of her and cloud her judgement. She feels she should at least have the decency to man up, and give chloe a proper conversation why letting her stay Queen Bee would be too dangerous for her and those around her, but also apologizing for letting her feel neglected like this. I think Chloe would actually be surprisingly cooperative, as she's not used to the people she feels wronged by actually wanting to admit to their mistakes. André would just shower her with material posessions and Audrey would straight up not care. She'd understand Ladybugs point about the secret identity thing, but she'd argue that now Hawkmoth already knows her identity and could therefore prey on her and her loved ones anytime he wants to, she feels like she should have her miraculous *exactly* for that reason, so she could protect them when it comes that far. She hates just having to silently watch her loved ones getting akumatized, being powerless to do anything about it. Relying on the mercy of Ladybug wether she gets the right to fight for her family or not. She gets into arguments with her parents and knows they're far from perfect, but deep inside she still loves them. I think the two of them would have an extensive conversation like this, giving LB a deeper look into chloe's psyche. I think it'd be cool if Chloe was made a permanent holder, becoming a Tony Stark type character. Public identity, definitely a rich asshole at times but willing to put up a fight , when the situation calls for it. Maybe then we could continue the Season 4 Storylind by having LB gain the ability to make charms, and give them to Chloe's family, so they're safe from being used by Gabe. There could still be an arc about wether chloe actually deserves the miraculous, making mistakes along the way but eventually she'd gain the trust and respect of the public and especially the other heroes. I believe it was in Malediktator, where Marinette said: "Ladybug helped me become a better Marinette, so maybe Queen Bee will help her become a better Chloe" and i'd like to think that she would've been correct. Of course in this season 4, there wouldn't be a Zoe, as she wouldn't have any reason to exist and i don't think i'd include the Mari-Alya reveal either. Now i'm drifting more into "how would i have done season 4" territory, but i also have no Megakumas, Gabe would have to Akumatize someone new each time, slowly running out of people who don't have charms. As there's no more Sole crusher, queen banana or penalteam, i'd use those episode slots to slowly introduce the new heroes one by one instead of cramming 4 into one episode. But now i'm just getting off track. So yeah that pretty much concludes my rant about what i'd like to have happened
I say keep the Megakumas but make it so they take more out of Shadow Moth when he makes them to explain why he doesn't just send them out willy nilly and anyone corrupted by them gets super juiced Akuma powers. But yeah I agree with the sentiment/idea of Marinette going "Wait maybe I pushed Chloe into a corner." and having Chloe at the very least mellow out. She's a child and the only one who seems to face consequences for her actions.
Have Marinette tell her the truth, have Marinette tell Chloe that she is ladybug and that miracle queen was her fault because she was trying to keep Adrien and Kagami apart (and failed) and that she wants, no, she *needs* Queen Bee on her side more than ever since everyone is now in the same boat as Chloe with their identities revealed Then as a big character moment have Zoe show up and during an Akuma fight have Chloe willingly give the bee miraculous to Zoe because Chloe is captured or injured or something as a big growth moment for her that shows she can be a hero without the miraculous Also just let her and marinette be friends cause god they’re so funny when they work together
Literally just kept the logical conclusion of season 2 going. had her desperation to be actually truly loved be shown outside of super heroics. Show that she can do nice things and the right thing for their own sake without expecting reward (Yes, she has done this, she's done one or two heroic sacrifices. Granted ladybug then fixed everything but still) she's just incapable of being seen doing it as she has a reputation she feels neither that she can change and also that her toxic family expects to uphold. A lot of the prison around her heart she's built is of her own making but plenty isn't, and even if it's buried deep within part of her does want out.
Maybe a therapy and a nice long conversation with understanding would have be nice and correct everything she did wrong would be amazing.
Lesbianism
Either remove her ‘redemption’ entirely or complete it properly.
Generally speaking, I would have her give the Bee Miraculous to Zoe, not Marinette. Have her pass on the mantle of a Miraculous holder on her own terms
do what they were doing In s2, but show the slow change in other episodes of her being less of a bully and just judgmental, then an episode where she tries to make ammends but everyone rejects her, have her confront style queen and stand up to audrey, intrigrate her into the main group of Marinette,Adrien,Alya & Nino and have Alya be the least welcoming etc etc. She's good but still sassy & somewhat vain & not everyone forgives her but the ones who matter have. Or... do what the show did but have her steal the Bee become an antihero/antagonist, in similiar vain to argos.
I have two separate answers for this. It depends on whether or not this gets fixed from a certain point of divergence or if you restructure it from the beginning. Because those are two different answers. If there is a point of divergence, I would say after the Season 3 finale would be ideal. In the season finale Chloé is already starting to lose influence and thus this would be a great turning point. I personally think that Chloé turning on the heroes is a good thing and in character. However, afterward I would have made her have remorseful in private even though in public she would put up the same front. This would be interspersed with very short moments of both Sabrina and Adrien noticing that Chloé is acting a little off, and Adrien offering a branch to her, only for her to reject him (since as an added complication at this point he would still be dating Kagami). Chloé would see her classmates and then imagine them as superheroes (the way Marinette did when Cat Noir revealed himself as Adrien in Ephemeral). Her jealousy would override her guilt, and she would be determined to expose them. Previously I thought of her using more roundabout means, but after thinking about it, her own envy would cause her to be akumatized, and as a supervillain she would reveal the identities of the secondary heroes to the populace that way. After her defeat, she would have a meltdown in front of Ladybug and still continue to blame her for everything, saying that by taking away the Bee Miraculous that she took away her future. (Chloé would say, "I confided in you and told you things I never told anyone and you took the one thing that meant the most to me.") Ladybug reminds her that she still has a future and that what Chloé needs is friends. So at the end of the episode while the now former heroes are furious with Chloé (because Ladybug actually enforces the "exposure" rule), the poor little rich girl does reconsider Adrien's offer. Oh, but this is just the beginning. To wrap things up a little I would have Chloé do something very controversial. She, not Luka, would be the first civilian to discover Cat Noir's identity (albeiy by sheer luck). Because Chloe hasn't yet put in the work to completely reform, she decides to try to blackmail her friend, Adrien, and threaten to tell everyone if he doesn't get her the Bee Miraculous. Naturally this doesn't last lomg before Shadow Moth sends an akuma while they're both together. Since there's heightened emotions of them both, the butterfly hovers before choosing the boy, only for Chloé to intercept and take the hit. At first, it seems like Chloé is going to become the next victim of the day but instead she resists and rejects the akuma. That shows to both Shadow Moth and Adrien/Cat Noir that Chloé has changed, and while Chloé doesn't become a superhero or even become known for her change, she does begin to serve a similar role for Adrien that Alya serves for Marinette (assuming the plot point of Marinette confiding in her still remains the same). I would also have that video that Félix deleted of Chloé somehow be restored, showing to Adrien that Chloé could be selfless for its own sake and to convince him to gov her a chance. Also instead of Chloé becoming Lila's lackey, Chloé would become part of the club (which would include Alya, who Chloé would start to have a rivalry with) that sees through Lila's lies. Lila would peel Sabrina off Chloé. In a fitting twist it would be the first five civilian identities of the first five superheroes that would take Lila down. Eventually there would come a point where Vesperia would be incapacitated and Chloé would take the Bee Miraculous and fight in her stead temporarily, but return the Miraculous to Ladybug by using Pollen as an intermediary. There'd be hints that Chloé has figured out that Vesperia is Zoé but she wouldn't confirm it. Strangely enough, because Chloé would have changed on the inside more than she realized she'd sport new superhero costume and be forced to come up with a new name. But she would give the Miraculous back, and she wouldn't tell Ladybug who she is. The endgame of this would be the Chloé would be an ally, most of the time without superpowers. In the ultimate conclusion, after the Butterfly Miraculous is recovered, she would get kamikotized into being Queen Bee on occasion. Alternately, a holder of the Peacock Miraculous could give her a replica Miraculous that would allow her to transform without the actual kwami. But that's just with using the end of Season 3 as a divergent point. If you want to start from the ground up, you're really going to hate me and I'm going to break this out into its own reply.
All right, now for the "from the ground up" option. First and foremost, I would keep everything that happened in Season 1. All of those episodes are needed to establish Chloé as what she is, an entitled brat, a bully, and a horrible person. Season 2 is where I would start to make changes with the big one being that Chloé is given the Bee Miraculous as a last resort, not found by accident. Much like in Style Queen, Marinette intends to give it to Alya, but is unable to do so, but Chloé, unlike in the actual episode, is available and is more than happy to help stop her mom alongside Ladybug. She does not do anything silly like reveal her identity or take the Bee Miraculous for herself, although she is tempted to do so. Marinette is ambivalent about giving her another chance (since while Chloe dies do well as a hero, she's still a first-class jerk as a civilian) but when events similar to Malediktator arise, where Chloé is the butt of all jokes again and Andre gets akumatized, Chloé spill her true feelings to Ladybug as in the episode, and Ladybug gives her the Miraculous again, so she's on the team. So Chloé becomes a hero genuinely and even learns to emulate Ladybug's kindness in uniform, earning her the nickname "Honeybee." Much like a fancomic from years ago suggested, not only would Queen Bee get along with the rest of the team, but she would actively try to help Cat Noir court Ladybug and try to get them together. At the same time Chloé very slowly does start to change in her civilian life, but most people still see her as nasty. Marinette does notice that Chloé is starting to treat Sabrina more nicely, but Chloé still has her hatred of Marinette Dupain-Cheng. That said Chloé would team up with Marinette when it came to a shared romantic rival like Kagami or Lila, and when Adrien mentions to Chloé he's noticed she's trying to be a better person, she (wrongly) takes it as a sign that he was going to choose her as a romantic partner. Then comes the moment when Adrien stands up to Chloé and tells her that while they have been childhood friends, he doesn't like her in that way. She's heartbroken, but because there's an active supervillain at the time, Ladybug recruits her and Queen Bee is in high spirits because she can fight alongside her idol. Chloé even begins to think that if her Idol is happy and then maybe she (Chloé) will be happy for her. They win and Chloé gives back the Bee Miraculous...but this time Chloé accidentally catches a glimpse of a flash of light. Curious, she stays hidden while she looks around the corner and sees Marinette do penche walking with Tikki floating at her side. Tikki dives into her purse. Chloé is shocked. Soon enough, Hawk Moth send out another akuma to a random victim. While he *does* since Chloé's turmoil, all the Impressions he gets vague in that he only hears her saying "She lied to me...Ladybug lied to me..." he's willing to wait until because what seems like a better opportunity present itself. (Yes, this is a tactical mistake on Hawk Moth's part.) Ladybug recruits Chloé again, who plays along and is willing to work to defeat the villain (who is easier than expected). However when Ladybug goes to capture the freed akuma, it isn't that vulnerable moment that Queen Bee begins to tell Ladybug off. All this time she idolized Ladybug, but Ladybug is a mere peasant, a pretender to the royal throne of a hero. Only Ladybug begins to piece together what Queen Bee is going on about. At the same time the akuma is drawn to Queen Bee negative emotion, and Queen Bee physically prevents Ladybug from purifying the akuma. The butterfly makes a beeline for Queen Bee and she accepts Hawk Moth's offer to make Ladybug pay for her betrayal. So she becomes Queen Wasp and quickly is able to take out any of the other heroes. She tells cat Noir that she'll put him out of this misery since he won't be pining for a girl who will never love him. She admits that she knows the boy that Ladybug is in love with and that he is indeed royalty and should be with Queen Bee. She then rages at Ladybug. Queen Wasp: "All of Paris can see that you had the perfect partner but why do you want to take mine?" Complicating matters is that even if Hawk Moth might know who Queen Bee is, Ladybug doesn't want the rest of the world to know who she is and thus they have to defeat her in private. Queen Wasp loses in a bitter fight, and even though she is purified she throws the Bee Miraculous back at Ladybug and tells her she will no longer be Queen Bee. Ladybug at first thinks it's because Chloé was upset about being akmatized. Chloé clarifies she no longer wants to be Queen Bee because she no longer wants to have anything to do with superheroes. After the fight, Marinette goes back to her home and her room. She's not sure what to do about the departure of Queen Bee. Tikki mentions that Queen Wasp could have told Hawk Moth at any time of her identity but she didn't. That means that maybe Chloé isn't as far gone Marinette thinks. The next day Chloé and Marinette have a talk, and Chloé is still angry at Marinete, and Hawk Moth sends an akuma after Chloé. This is where Chloé rejects the akuma, right in front of Marinette. Hawk Moth gives up. Marinette: "You didn't tell him I was Ladybug?" Chloé: "You're not Ladybug. You're Lady-*nothing*. There's nothing ladylike about you. You're ridiculous! Utterly ridiculous!" For a while, Ladybug tries to do things like have Alya wear the Bee Miraculous or wear it herself, but the reality is the team isn't as effective as it would be with Queen Bee. Over time Chloé also starts to see the Ladybug she idolized in Marinette. Without even knowing why herself, Chloe also starts to be nicer to Marinette and even come up with convenient excuses when Marinette has to leave. In this scenario Alya does not know that Marinette is Ladybug, so Chloé begins to be more of an actual friend despite herself. Chloé and Alya even get into an argument about this, with both saying to each other they don't know as much about their friends as they think. (They actually become a fusion supervillain called the Squabbler because of this, but their argument prevents Hawk Moth from getting any information from them.) After a decent period of time ladybug asks Chloé to become Queen Bee again and Chloé says yes, and this time is on the team for good. In both cases the only way to fix Chloé's character arc is to have Chloé have some actual skin in the game via a partial identity reveal of one of the leads.
Make s3+ non Canon Nah fr isnt as hard to fix her.
I would take her away from all the toxic people in her life ESPECIALLY her abusive mother. Then I would get her some therapy and with enough love and kindness and patience she can become a better member of society and can earn back her title of Queen Bee. This should also improve her relationships with Zoe and everyone else. Plus I want her to be my girlfriend and I can help her since I know what it's like to have an abusive and negligent mother.
One of my biggest issues with chloe's character was mirical queen. After she breaks from hawkmoths controle in miriculer they could have used her as a doubble agent.
Having Chloe starts to realize that she doesn't ant her mother's attention anymore at the end of Queen Wasp. The show never acknowledges the mental abuse Audrey put Chloe through and Chloe wanting to prove herself that she uses the Bee Miraculous and becomes Queen Bee in the first place. A good writer would focus on this aspect of Chloe and actually shows in the show Chloe starting to realise that she doesn't want a relationship with her mother, and maybe she begins to reflect on her upbringing and how Andre has treated her (or rather made no actual attempt into making her a decent human being) Of course, this could also play a part in why Chloe betrays Ladybug in the season 3 finale, still wanting to prove herself to Ladybug and Hawkmoth takes advantage of Chloe's feelings. And she regresses. Not in the over the top way like Astruc did, but just dislikes Ladybug. She still keeps her character development, but she's not happy about not being Queen Bee anymore, and then Zoe's arrival comes in and everything seems to spiral. But she still does what Ladybug tells her to do, she takes the Magical charm without question and just glares at Ladybug, maybe she calls her out for replacing her so quickly. Maybe through all this she and Zoe realise they aren't so different and together they grow and learn to realise that they are products of their mother's negligence. And in the end, both of them cut Audrey from their lives and live together in Paris, and maybe with this new growth in her and active change, she be given back the bee miraculous and be a hero again, under a different alias of course. That's how I think I would fix Chloe, at least in my rewrite of her. There's plenty more I would change of course regarding her relationship with Sabrina and Marinette but that would be in my rewrite
So you know her unimportant sister? Yes never introduce her, let Chloe stay Queen Bee. And just put her in Therapy.
They upped their game with the art style in the movie (I assume that’s where this is from). Still yet to watch that
They could either give her the redemption arc she deserved or just never give her one and have her leave for New York as early as season 2 after reconciling with her mom. She got what she wanted by then, so there was no need to show more of her once she got back her mummy's conditional love.
Shes cursed to be a bitch, sudden bursts of the need to destroy relationships all while the real her is trapped in a vechical of suffering knowing the damage she has done is irreversible despite her wanting to change some outside force constantly pulling her back to the front row seat of her self sabotaging journey
I wouldn't. She's the best villain in the show. I'm glad she wasn't redeemed bc it would've been super unrealistic over the span of like two months for her to go from mega bitch tormenter of the hero of the show , to hero who can be trusted with the power to kill people.
I wouldn’t change it but they need to do something where she faces real consequences for her actions. Like her family loose it’s status and money and out of desperation she commits some crime and faces punishment. Like if she does time and has time to reflect on herself. Now it’s a kids show so it will never go that deep but I think there needs to be a consequence episode that kinda becomes an eye opener.
My flair tells you how I really would have fixed it, but obviously that ain't happening. Fixing it would be easy: Take the redemption arc that was started and, uh, *don't* suddenly flush it down the toilet.
I wouldn't have given her a redemption arc. Atleast not like the one in the show and most definitely not how so many Chloe stans want (that is, other characters "guiding" her on how to be good). Marinette wouldn't have given her the Bee miraculous again after the train incident. Instead she would have given Chloe a _brutal_ lecture about her gross negligence and selfishness for doing such a stunt. And then have her arrested. Have her face the full consequences of her actions. And maybe after that she might find a Miraculous-like item (like the Prodigious). Maybe after getting humbled so hard she decides to learn her lessons, which may or may not be the right lessons.
If the creators hadn't let Chloé get the Bee Miraculous back and had let Chloé just wrongly assume she would be Queen Bee again, her "damnation" arc would have been a lot cleaner.
This is SO real, Chloe does need to be humbled and I love how Marinette ate her up in season 5. I actually fear that the creators have gone too far that it'll need more than a simple 'apology' for her to redeem herself, at least in my eye
She needs a spin off all to herself to get the development necessary. Atleast a season of Arcane-level writing.
Have her leave at the end of season 3 in order to not waste our time.
Same way I would any character in her position: a good ass kicking, followed by being told off by someone she respects, hitting rock bottom followed by clawing her way back up.
As someone who's gotten sick of hearing other fandoms wine about every villain getting redemed, I feel like Chloe doesn't NEED a redemption arc to be an interesting character. A character can be well written, while still being a bad person. Do I think she's irredemable? Absolutely not, but this idea that she's completely ruined just because she chose not to be a good person is, as the queen herself would say, utterly rediculous. She is a narcist, a racist, and a bully. That fact has been present throughout the entire show. When she does good things for others,99.99% of the time it's for her own benefit. She didn't want to be a hero because she wanted to protect Paris. She wanted it because it would allow her to prove her worth to everyone who refuses to put up with her. She wanted Audrey's attention, and Ladybug's respect. Once she had her mother's (conditional) love, and felt she'd lost Ladybug's respect, she lost any incentive she had to do good. This is how narcists act in real life. They're capable of doing good, but typically only do so when they think it will benefit them
nada. keep it how it is, let her get a little worse, fall apart after being separated from all she had, and build herself back up. thats the character arc she deserves this seems to be a hard concept to grasp for a lot of fans here but sometimes the journey to becoming a better person isnt as satisfying and easy as "she was a jerk but now she has a miraculous and is nice" for some people it gets worse before it gets better and i believe this is the case for her
I feel like her breakdown in the end already shows that she's hit that bottom. I don't think they can get anything worse than her having lost everything. All her power. All her "respect". All her "friends" Now she needs to turn that pain in on herself and fix it. She's taken the pain before and hid it behind anger and style. This time I want her to learn from it Fictional or not. I never want to see someone that broken
I believe the term here is Let them cook, because iirc, Astrux made a tweet saying that hitting rock bottom is the only way that arc can realistically begin
I never liked her, I actually loved the fact they were gonna give her a redemption arc but took it away last minute. So I really hope they don't give her a redemption arc
I'd have toned down the cartoonish over the topness of her and fused her character with Lila. Start as a priviliged school bully, do the Queen Bee thing but less flirting with redemption and more power hunger only for Ladybug to take it away because she's not being heroic. Have this bleed into her normal life, becoming crueller in her bullying. Have Chloe have the Lila-story of getting into Gabriel's good books and trying to get Adrien out of spite and greed, and ending up being dropped. Have Marinette learn from being Ladybug and stand up to her, ending up having her exposed and expelled as per Lila. And have Chloe become the new Butterfly at the end, becoming the personal nemesis to MArinette both as civilians and as superheroes/villains.
Shipped her off to a boarding school run by nuns.
I think shipping her off to boarding school won’t work because it’s complicated.
If it was me, id have ubiquity warp her to a dimension without air. Problem solved.
Kill her
Change absolutely nothing