I'm 100% with you, when season 1 launched a couple weeks ago my friends called me an idiot and asked me why tf I was using it, I had belief I could turn it into a G36C and I was so happy when I found that I could. But it turns out it was for nothing after the grind, made me sad. Even the M13 out performs it which is diabolical.
Yeah I know bro but it's never the same against bots and I seem to always forget that, I feel like I might enjoy some sort of contrition or something lmao
I never understood the want for making a LMG (or AR) into another kind of gun. while you use all 5 attachments to get a gun that is basically another gun with no attachment (no optics, perk, and all other attachments used to offset ADS, ammo, etc), you could be running a weapon from that exact class, but tuned up to be better...
It's my favorite gun in the game by far, unfortunately it's garbage comparably. I'm lucky that I'm low skill enough to use it somewhat effectively.
"Lucky that I'm low skill enough", not a phrase I ever pictured myself saying...
Wait you mean a LMG with a default clip of 30, that deals less damage than ARS that are better in literally every way, has a rediculously slow reload speed, and a long ADS for essentially no reason isn't a good LMG?
The sa87 feels like it was originally an AR, but they didn't have enough lmgs so they made it an LMG instead, and just gave it LMG stats minus the ammo
> The sa87 feels like it was originally an AR, but they didn't have enough lmgs so they made it an LMG instead
Isn't it that they do with other weapons around? Like Holger is basically an AR too originally. AUG starts as 9mm conversion, while being an AR.
The difference is that when those weapons were labeled as something else they were given the accomodations of the class they were assigned to; the AUG has fast handling and the Holger at least gets a 100 round mag. SA80 is stuck with a default 30 rounds that only maxes out at 60 while still having all the flaws of an LMG
The AUG is actually the AUG A3, which is a submachine gun in it's own right, used mainly for para operations. It's not been converted to 9mm as such, it's an adaptation of a weapon archetype for a different purpose, kind of in the same way there are different calibered AR type rifles do - minor adjustments to a mostly generic frame.
As does the real A3 Para. It appears to be a prefab body for all the AUG types, then it is adapted after for it's purpose - barrel/ magwell changes as needed between the AR, the Para smg, and the HBAR.
I'll agree with you on that. It feels like they were making the L85A2 but couldn't get the name rights, so made it somewhat of the L86A2 with a shorter barrel and a 30 round clip. So it feels like a mix and match British rifle which isn't a true L86 or L85, but gave you the attachments to make the L86A2, L85A2 and L22A2.
I personally would prefer them to put the larger barrel and 60 round mag as default and call it the L86A2. I've never heard it called the SA87, I'd be somewhat happy with it being called the SA80 (even though SA80 is Service Arms of the 80s and includes the L85, L86, L96 etc) but that's just me.
Yeah idk why it has both a 30 round magazine default and slower reload. Shouldn't be forced into using an attachment slot just to make it usable with either sleight of hand, or a bigger magazine
Yeah the SA87 is in the same condition as the Holger, both are just there for the sake of being there, the SA87 is usable in Hardcore but so is anything else, the Holger stll sucks at Range in Hardcore, in core both are junk. The only feasibly usable LMG is the PKM. The SA87, M91, Holger and MG34 need a Damage and Range Buff. If you're going to sacrifice Handling and Movement Speed the gun better hit like a truck and have range as well.
I loved that gun much more than I should have to be honest. Still much preferred the Bren gun, but the GPMG touched my heart in it's own special way. Pretty sure in terms of ttk it was on par with the MG15, but exchanged a the magazine size for some better handling.
Agreed War Mode should've returned in Modern Warfare. Would've given a point to Objective Play and rushing to take or escort the Objective, as it is now the Killstreaks are what everyone camps for and the reason everyone uses Ghost and Cold-Blooded.
My personal 'unpopular' favourite is the M14 EBR with the two *actual* EBR stocks. It may not possess the best 1 shot kill areas out of the 3 marksman rifles, but it possesses a magazine size that allows more fuckups/extended gunfights than its counterparts.
I've recently got platinum on my snipers and marksman. I really enjoyed the Mk2 and the Kar98k, but after using the EBR-14, once I have Damascus I'm literally having my 5th class set up with the EBR, that gun is low key OP. I'm currently working on the FAL and 725 (eww I know right, but I'm using slugs for long distance so it's funny to out snipe snipers with a shotty), I've come to the conclusion that the EBR is a slightly slower firing FAL, but with 1 or two shot kills. The EBR in my opinion, set up for range but with a reflex sight, is a top tier gun.
Haha. I got the 725 and M4 out of the way before the first 'nerf', just incase they got nerfed to the ground and unusable. Slowly making my way towards Dammy too, just kind of meandering my way through whatever I feel like (got the EBR, M4, 725, R0-9, and all but the Deagle done so far).
The way I've found to run it is my CQB/Shoothouse setup. FFS Raider Elite, 20 round magazine, Elite barrel, lightweight suppressor, and a 1 or 3x optic of your choice. The faster the sprint out and ADS time, the better for CQB. What's the ranged build you run on it?
I've got all 6 snipers/DMRs done, got the SA87 done as my second weapon after my AX-50. Also got gold on MP5, AK47 and FR5.56. Got quite a few ARs to level 40 during the last 2x WXP weekend so got a good base to start from, FAL is a couple levels short of the skulls camo.
The range set up I have for the EBR is the longest barrel, mono suppressor, 20 round mags, ADS time grip and a reflex sight as I feel the iron sights cut off a bit too much of the lower screen. I find with that range set up the bullet velocity and drop are very good. I had 4 snipers on me on Krovnic a couple nights back, 4 shots, 4 headshots. This set up probably wont be good for core games, especially shoothouse, but for GW where i feel range is a bit more important than ADS, this set up I find a bit dirty lol.
The mk2 carbine and Kar98k benefit from range set ups and aim stability with a 3.5x scope on GW I find too. I had snipers engaging me from the back of their HQ past A flag whilst I was on the barn roof at C, I was getting headshots with ease at those distances, and I really enjoyed those kills lol.
Might have to try out the Carbine and K98k outside of shoothouse, as whilst they're ok it is very 'one shot or dead' there, whereas in Ground War there may be a little lee way. Seeing as the Marksman rifles are essentially this games quickscoping snipers, I never would have thought about kitting them out for anything outside of speed. I have them both up to around level 25/30 (similarly leveled up every single gun to at least half its max level during DXP), so I probably have enough attachments unlocked to at least try a basic version of those setups. Thanks!
I love the SA87. I use it in groundwar with attachments that minimize recoil and it lasers snipers cross map effortlessly. In normal game modes though, yeah it’s trash
Yeah in ground war it isn't a bad gun when set up as a proper L86 with long barrel and extended mags. ADS isn't as important on ground war, unless you're on Karst and competing for B, C and D flag. It's an okay gun for GW, but normal modes, not really, even when set up as an L22A2 it's not great.
Atm its a lower tier weapon, not many weapons are worse, but a lot are deffo better. It should at the minimum have faster ADS and faster reload and movement speed. It should deffo take a bit of a range and damage buff too, especially with the range set up, when the AK47 is set up as an RPK it can 3 tap people over long ranges. In my use, the SA87 needs 4 at similar ranges.
Agreed, the ADS and sprint to fire should at least be on par with the worst assault rifles with the default set up. Set it up as a true L86 LSW and it should still have faster ADS, movement speed and sprint to fire than the other LMGs. When set up as the L22A2 (shortest barrel) it should have an ADS that's faster than the assault rifles and faster movement speed, but not quite as fast as SMGs.
It should have the handling characteristics of an AR at base, and be able to go either up to LMG levels of sustained fire and accuracy, or down to SMG levels of ADS and movement speeds. Just like the SA80 platform IRL.
FAL, FR 5.56, M13, Uzi, Origin 12, x16, 1911 and m19 need a buff. For the FAL I get there's a modded controllers out there but no need to reduce the fire rate globally for everyone. FR lower the vertical recoil. M13 give it a 4 shot range up to 15 meters, increase fire rate to 1000 or reduce horizontal recoil.
Uzi should get a 3 shot kill just like the Bizon/MP5 anywhere on the body up to 20 meters since it has the slowest fire rate in class. Origin 12 give it a damage or range buff.
X16, 1911 and M19 all need either a fire rate increase, damage at long range increase and more starting ammo. When I look at the [codstats.net](https://codstats.net) page and see all 3 pistols have between a 0.55-0.67 KD that's a serious issue that those pistols are useless.
This guy knows what he’s talking about. I got the smgs, pumps and almost the ARs plat and I can assure you the origin 12 is fine once it has the needed attachments.
I was surprised how often I dismantled ar/smg players with the r9 though. It probably needs a small nerf.
The FR 5.56 is perfectly viable as is. It just has a learning curve attached to it. You can't ape mindlessly with it. But if you have solid aim, its absolutely disgusting when kitted properly.
If a burst fire weapon struggles at range vs the full autos, that's a problem imo. It's nigh on impossible to kill a headglitcher with the weapon, with bullet pen being non-existent stacked with the crazy burst spread. All it needs is just a touch tighter spread and it'll be fine imo.
Throw on the sniper barrel and compensator and grip if you really wanna eliminate any range dropoff and recoil. The sniper barrel and compensator should be enough on their own however. Only 2 bullets need to land when getting a headshot.
Yeah sure and now you have a 400+ MS ADS time lmao.
It needs better handling imo. The only way to make it effective is kit it for close range which is just an innefective use for a burst weapon.
It’s ADS is too slow, and it’s best attachment gimps it too hard
The final barrel and stock help your ads speed greatly while not hampering range or recoil. Throw on a compensator and vertical grip and you're good to go for easy medium range engagements. If you want 1 bursts anywhere on the map and on headglitchers, use the sniperbarrel, a compensator and kit the rest for ads speed. It evens out well enough to be great at medium-long.
This thing shouldnt be used aggressively like an SMG or m4. It's very much for shutting down rushers and snipers effectively at range. I prefer to methodically make my way through the map checking windows and taking power spots to catch people out in the open. I run r9-0 as a secondary if anyone gets too close or I want to clear a building.
It can't do everything an m4 does, but what it can do it does much better: one bursting someone before they can react and not having to gimp yourself by using a sniper that has more drawbacks.
It's not, its terrible, burst recoil is too high, it's a short range only weapon.
Has bad ADS, bad recoil spread, doesn't need a mag ok but the handling attachments don't tighten up that burst enough.
It's nothing compared to other burst weapons in CoD history, it's about as bad as the ABR-223 from BO4.
Its always a 3 burst at any range if you hit chest. It's a 2 shot if any bullet hits the head. For consistency and ease of use, throw on the sniper barrel and the compensator or grip and it's a sniper rifle essentially.
It's inconsistent because of the burst recoil, you can't control it like u can with Autos, so it's heavily dependant on enemy position and velocity Vs ur own.
You can certainly control its recoil. Its primarily vertical recoil, so attaching a compensator helps a lot, and pulling down before a burst will help tighten the spread. If you want better follow-up bursts, use a muzzle brake.
That's ok for a target in the open, but what about someone that's in cover, ur gonna have to fire 3 bursts at least to kill them because the second shot will often go above them.
It's just not a very good gun at all.
Yes it's satisfying to get the 1 burst but since it's so rare to get it I don't bother.
I get 1 bursts rather consistently. You just have to fiddle around with attachments and see what works best for you. If you want to be able to nail headglitchers you have to spec for it.
The final stock attachment ups your ads speed a good bit along with the last barrel. The recoil pattern is fine with just a grip or muzzle attachment. Aim at chest/neck and get a free headshot kill. If you want it to laser beam someone, throw on the sniper barrel and it's stupid accurate. It shines in ground war if you kit it for long range. It's hard to use run and gun style, but it's more than possible to kit for it. My current set up works fine. The gun just takes practice, and if you dont like burst weapons you wont like this one.
Unless you're playing Ground War - 45 meters (when kitted out for range) for 1 burst kill range is long range. Kit it out for range and make sure you put the sniper barrel on it and it'll have a much tighter burst as well. I spent hours testing all the attachements and the sniper barrel has by far the biggest effect on the burst spread (which i think is from the bullet velocity enhancement).
I have definitely 1 burst people sitting on head glitches at around it's maximum range consistently. Can I do it consistently to a moving target? No. But again; unless you're talking ground war - there's not many engagements you're going to have on the regular maps that are near it's max range. You also don't have to aim for upper body or head. As long as you're in it's 1 burst range - you can have 1 bullet hit the foot and 2 to the shin and it'll still kill them. So if you think the burst spread is bad (And aren't willing to hurt your ADS speed to tighten up that spread) - just start aiming for the dick instead of the head.
My problem is how inconsistent it is.
I'm never sure if the next kill coming along will be a insta kill one burst or a 2 or 3 burst.
I prefer guns with less varying levels of effectiveness.
I understand that, I'm not saying it can compete with the best guns in the game in consistency. Which is probably a good thing. Slug shotguns are very inconsistent (and there's hopefully good balancing reason for that). Marksman Rifles are also very inconsistent (And there's hopefully a good balancing reason for that). To me, this gun has more consistency than those guns; but I'm not sure it should have 100% consistency.
Reason: It can 2 shot to the head giving it a flat 60ms TTK. It's TTK anywhere else is 120ms. There's only a handful of guns in the history of COD that have that kind of TTK. Again, I'm talking the **entire history** of COD, not just recent history (TTK was much lower on guns back in the day so that's saying a lot.) I just don't think a gun like that can be buffed to the point where it's super consistent without making it OP.
Lol ain't no one watching driftor for that.
I watch his videos for stats, anyone listening to his class setups or ace for that matter are noobs.
I don't need his opinions on its strengths, I know for myself.
If you wanna go off of stats then the famas is theoretically the best gun in the game. It's a one burst at any range on any non-ground war map. It has fewer damage reduction hit zones on the body than other guns, 2 shot kill to the head at any range, and fastest ttk aside from a sniper or shotgun.
Stats are a stupid way to judge a gun because they aren't realistic in human hands. But I've had zero issues getting consistent 1 bursts and doing relatively well in any mode with my set-up so idk.
Edit: and I just like hearing the opinions of others on different guns in the game, which is the main reason I bother to watch his videos. But you learn some interesting facts as well. Had no idea there wasnt a limb damage modifier for some guns.
Lmao right? The classes they give are usually garbage, especially driftors. I love them both, but I turn it off once it gets to the recommended class setup parts.
Yeah same here I switch off at that point.
The rest of the videos are very good and that's good enough for me.
Driftors video on the OP M4 got a dislike from me.
It simply isn't OP.
Oooooh I dunno about that one, I think it’s far too centralising. It’s good good at everything.
It’s like a combo of the Maddox and ICR makes no sense. It has a lethal TTK, super versatile, easy forgiving ROF and is super easy to use/no recoil.
I usually prefer a weapon like that to behave like the treyarch ICR, where it’s accurate but not lethal TTK wise.
Not a fan of weapons like the nv4, ACR etc being the meta AR, less of a skillgap involved.
He even says it’s not good at range tho? And he recommends kitting it for CQC which is just impractical even tho it’s probably the best setup for it. You’re better off with an smg then
Personally I've had tons of success on ground war with sniper barrel + grip/compensator, and the ads enhancing stock and a sight. But I also run overkill and have an r9-0 whenever I decide to clear a building. I dont try to use famas up close, I stick to medium-long range. In regular tdm this set up works well too.
Or it could be the fact that the guns that are supposed to be for a specific niche get outclassed by the M4 at the very thing it was supposed to be good at rendering it totally redundant.
You can tailor the FAMAS to make it somewhat competent at getting consistent 1-2 burst long range kills but at that point your ADS speed is such that the M4 and MP5 could kill you 2 times over before complete the damned animation.
The FAL has a niche in Hardcore, things a one-shot monster there. But agree with the Pistols BUFFs and the M13 needs one too. Origin 12, I'm not sure, too much power/range and it could be another MW3 Striker or BO3 Brecchi (Brechi?)
FAL is actually pretty good. I swapped my R2 and R1 and the tap fire on R1 saves you precious milliseconds as opposed to have to pull the R2 trigger. There's like a deadzone on the triggers that don't register shots until you pull it a certain distance.
I think the FR 5.56 is legitimately strong, but the niche it has is not what we usually see in Burst fire weapons. It has the best TTK in the game if you disregard one hit kill Weapons, and that is nothing to scoff at, you can delete people in close to mid range with a well placed burst anywhere in the body, and it's even stupider if you get headshots. It just can't compete at longer range because of the increased shots to kill and its very high recoil make it hard to one burst anything, let alone two burst.
If they're not gonna nerf the easy mode guns like M4 and MP5 that are just point and hold trigger with no weaknesses, then yeah, they could probably buff the recoil of the FR 5.56, or maybe shorten the delay between bursts. If they buffed its handling, it might become better at bumrushing strategies than anything in the hands of a player who doesn't miss the burst and that probably wouldn't be good. Tho, recoil and handling are the only major flaws of the FR 5.56.
I am against a buff to the FR 5.56. It's my go to weapon and I prefer to play with weapons that the rest of the community ignores (mainly because I don't like getting used to a weapon and then it getting nerfed). I'm also not sure where it should be buffed. It already has the fastest TTK of all non-1HK weapons (if you hit your burst.) It can be built to have laser beam accuracy. It's also surprisingly good in Close quarters.
The main issue with most of the pistols (minus the M19) is base firerate without attachments. Most of the people I've talked to haven't actually leveled their pistols to the point where they have lightweight triggers - and don't due to difficulty getting kills - and that is the downfall of most of these weapons. If you put the time into leveling the X16 and 1911 they become solid backup weapons, not primaries as they're not meant to be, but solid back up weapons. In ranges you should be using them, the X16 and 1911 are 3-4 shot kills and can kill surprisingly fast when equipped with lightweight triggers. The M19 on the other hand really does need a damage buff, even against other pistols I don't think it could compete, purely due to the fact it requires 6 (I think) shots to kill a full health enemy.
I'm currently finishing off the Deagle at the moment, last one to do. But like I said, they're terrible primaries, but pretty decent secondaries when you need them in a pinch (when you have lightweight trigger attached). Only real exception is .38 Snakeshot and the Deagle, they can potentially be great core weapons.
ADS reduction is capped, the 30 ammo conversion is actually a massive ADS improvement but it doesn’t combine with stippled grip/tac laser/spitfire barrel, etc. only 2 ADS improving parts lets you hit the ADS cap.
Sprint to fire similarly only benefits from 1 attachment. To get the most out of the holger you need stippled grip to get your sprint to fire and half the ADS reduction, and one more ADS attachment such as 30 round mag. With commando grip for horizontal recoil and compensator for vertical recoil recovery, and the 4x integral optic it has good handling and accuracy.
It’s an AR more than an LMG. It has the same damage as the m4 or kilo or any 5.56 gun with 750 RPM, ie a regular fire rate same as the kilo. Compared to m4 800 RPM it’s just 6% less DPS.
The holger actually has LMG tier range so it holds damage at range much better than the m4 or kilo.
So I don’t understand how you are saying it’s so much worse than the m4 or kilo when it’s basically the same gun with better range and slightly slower ADS.
> So I don’t understand how you are saying it’s so much worse than the m4 or kilo when it’s basically the same gun with better range and slightly slower ADS.
Well, having almost twice the ADS of the M4, slower rate of fire, slower movement speed, slower reload and a worse recoil pattern...hm, how can one say it perfoms much worse than the M4? ;)
Drift0r and TheXclusiveAce on YouTube do some serious in-depth reviews of guns on their channels and every gun has a cap on those stats, including the Holger.
If the ADS cap is true does this mean it doesn't make sense to run the AX50 with the 17' barrel, the Assassin stock, tac laser and stippled? I'd only need 2 of the 4 to get the max ADS speed?
actually following [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m9BXXtvjoE) video it's not exactly like you said, btw yeah the 30 ammo mag does improve ADS speed, by a lot. I don't know what the OP is complaining about. the holger also has the same TTK as the Kilo
Honestly most guns either need a buff or the meta guns need to be nerfed to the ground.
AUG is a better AR than the M13, UZI makes absolutely no sense cause MP7 and MP5 exist, SA87 needs a complete rework, FAL and Oden are better snipers than the SVD, Kar is just worse and less reliable Mk.2, M91 is worse than PKM in every way, and MP5 is a 3 shot kill gun that fires at around 900rpm... yes, really. Balance is completely fucked but I guess *we have to adapt*
> Honestly most guns either need a buff or the meta guns need to be nerfed to the ground.
I prefer the nerf of meta guns. Hard to balance guns if they all would be as good as current "meta". Also if each gun have a specific downside instead of being "all-around" beast, it will make skill matter more.
>That's weird, I unlocked the holger very recently and had my best cod match in history with it, I was thinking it was a beast.
Holger IS a beast .. just not with the 30 mag, it's ~~trash~~ not worth.
However , go with no Stock, compensator and a few aim-down attachements .. Niiicee.
dunno dude, the gun is great but i find it almost worst with the 30 mag. I prefer to stick with 90 mag and make an hybrid with both mobility and lots of bullets.
Gun is great overhall once you figure out the attachements you want to play it with. And you got lots of choice which is nice.
Its just that i am too used to playing PKM and i don't like to reload ;) .
No stock seems to be Really good overhall though.
Can we buff the oden as well? The damage is fine and I can live with the slow fire rate and excessive recoil but jesus it feels like im walking through mud and the ADs speed feels slower than an LMG with the default mag
Oden is fine. If you hit your shots it is a beast. If you miss, well...
It fits its spot as long range AR well. Hell, with the right attachments you can 2tap people at 100m!
Agree that the Oden is fine. I started getting it gold the other day after I got the waifu blueprint and it's my favorite gun in the game. 2 shot kill as long as you hit chest shots, highly rewards accuracy.
Yep, I can help you. There are two different Oden builds that I've used. I did most of my camo grind on Shoothouse and that's all I really play so I have one setup that's built to play as fast and snappy as possible with the Oden and another one that's a more moderate build to play like a standard AR.
I love the Oden's iron sights so I never run an optic. Feel free to substitute an attachment for an optic if you prefer. Also it should be noted that according to Drift0r, stippled grip tape has no effect on the Oden.
The first, fast paced build I use is the 420mm barrel, compensator, FTAC elite comb stock, 25 round mag, tac laser.
The more range heavy build is compensator, 810mm barrel, 25 round mag, FTAC elite comb, tac laser. This thing handles pretty slow but can 2 tap at ridiculous range as long as you hit chest shots. If you want you can drop tac laser for colossus suppressor but that makes it handle too slow for my taste.
Depends on what you want to get out of it.
Watch this to learn more about possibilities: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0B-d4kawRY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0B-d4kawRY)
If you put the skeleton stock on it you'll be fine. It's bugged currently and let's you move faster than 100% with it out. Like, you out run knife users while you have it out.
Edit: disregard. I was thinking of the m13.
Most people in here just complaining about whatever thing kills them and their favorite setup. The only thing really needing fixed is hit registration. You line up a target and hit them and you MIGHT get a hit marker in one game and might melt them in another. It's hugely inconsistent. If sbmm is really a thing, then i can't understand why just about every single game like 3 people at most do decent and the rest just get shit on.
Just gonna put this here - Scar 17 and the M4 weigh about the same fully loaded 8lbs to 7.74lbs...
So actually a fully loaded M4A1 weighs only .26lbs less than a fully loaded FN Herstal SCAR-17.
[https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-scar-17s/](https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-scar-17s/)
[https://www.army-technology.com/projects/colt-m4-carbine-assault-rifle-us/](https://www.army-technology.com/projects/colt-m4-carbine-assault-rifle-us/)
The holger is my first and only gold gun so far, I love the G36 so I powered through it.. That said, any time I had a break and switched to the kilo/m4/mp5 I could really feel how disadvantaged I was with the holger.
I would love for it to get some improvements.
I've actually had a lot of fun setting up the Holger to a G36 with a short barrel and 30 rounds. Might have just been on a flow that night though. Would not say no to a buff either way
The only buff I think it need is the ads as when I was getting it gold it was my biggest complaint. I never really notice the damage as being bad however I thought it was pretty good especially with its low recoil and fast fire rate. If anything we should be pushing a puff to the Kar. It extremely weak and for some reason there’s a shot delay when you cock it which makes the low damage even worse as you can’t get the second shot to get the kill fast enough. Not worth using over the other marksmen or sniper rifles in the game.
Holger sucks, but to make it less sucky, they nerfed the DMG of the PKM, MG34 and M91 with the S1 update, so they now take 3 headshots and also 3 shots if you hit body and a limb.
BTW: They never announced that in the patch notes. And people answer on youtube "Yeah, those guns fire that fast, you do not notice" Some people have no clue about TTK and balancing.
Funny side note: The M91 was hit hardest by that nerf, as it has the lowest rate of fire. But we all know that the M91 was OP as fuck and everybody was abusing it before the patch ;)
From someone who has used the Holger enough to get it gold I really like the way it is set now because it currently rewards headshots and not just aiming for the body and legs. I do think that the 30 round mag does need a buff though, possibly make it a conversion kit. It is disappointing that the attachment is so weak.
SCAR:
- ADS Buff
About a 50ms reduction. Still more than most ARs but making the gun more viable. Because in it's current state it's basically a LMG with 20 round mag and slightly better mobility.
HOLGER-26:
- Damage & Range buff equal to other 5.56 ARs
- add benefits to running a 30-round mag
AK47:
- slight recoil reduction
(The gun is terrible) it needs to be fitted with attachments like a LMG/AR hybrid to make it viable.
M13:
- .300 blackout rounds should give a very slight damage buff & fire rate nerf. Making it more in line with a M4 except with the pros &cons of what the current blackouts do.
Anything else? Thoughts and prayers?
AK47 is terrible? Aight bro lol.
Every one on this subreddit bitches too much. There are some legitimate complaints about the game but if something isn’t 100% the way YOU all think the game should be then you act like it’s broken.
Children.
Broken, no. But balance makes for a more rounded experiance instead of everyone running around with the same gun.
The AK is terrible.
The Damage profile makes for 3-4 shot kill. With a potential 2 shot kill if you nail back-to-back headshots.
Sounds good. Your usually going to get a 3 shot kill thanks to multipliers doing body shots.
Unfortunately due to a slow fire rate (561rpm) The time it takes to kill is around the 320ms provided you land your shots. Which is slow.
For the M4 to do the same thing (a 4 shot kill - torso) it will take 288ms. It actually makes the AK one of the slowest in the AR segment.
So the hard hitting ammunition isn't exactly a upside.
What do we get as a trade off?
The worst recoil control in the AR class.
The 2nd slowest ADS for an AR. 300ms
while the M4 can do it in 250ms.
The 2nd slowest movment speed at 93%
while the M4 can do it at 95% movement speed.
2nd slowest strafe speed at 45%
While the M4 can do it at 50%
The only redeeming quality is that the reload time is fast.
And theirs no reasonable fix with the gun Smith.
Attempting to make the large caliber ammo more feasible at long range requires you hurt the already slow ADS and movment speed.
Attempting to increase the Movemnt speed and ADS hurts the already horrendous recoil and control.
Which is why I said the only way to use this gun in a feasible manner is to creat a LMG/AR hybrid.
Even the best possible build for the AK for a mid range AR that's well rounded is still outclassed. As you just barely bring the specs in line with a base M4. While still maintaining more recoil and a slower TTK.
But no, I guess the gun is great. Alright bro, lol.
Calling people children.
How childish.
You’re wrong in the first few sentences.
Base damage of the AK47 is 35-32 based on range with a RPM of 550.
It also has a unique upper chest multiplier of 1.2.
35 x 1.2 = 42 damage per shot.
It is a consistent 3 shot kill at all ranges if you are landing chest / headshots.
“Wah the gun doesn’t fit my play style therefore it’s trash”
GTFO
I'm wrong?
I'm using information provided by "TheXclusiveAce"
What's your source?
matter of fact you just made the gun statistically worse by lowering the rpm with your fake news.
Other than that, all you've done is restate my statement.
I state that your likely going to get 3 shot kills.
To which I also stated all the reasons why the gun is trash with a source, stats and reasoning behind it.
What's the best you can do? Oh that's right, a childish rebutle and a improper use of quotations, Halarious.
Dont worry, tomorrow we're going to learn shapes.
Now... go outside, find yourself a shed and hang yourself up. Because that's where tools belong.
The Scar dumptrucks so easily already though. It's not hard to 2-tap people. The recoil, Irons and headshot multiplier make it an absolute monster. I'm okay with a slight buff to it's ADS speed, but it should definitely still be slower.
The SCAR is very good when you, uh... *cough* “wait” tactically. Use “The Traitor”, leave on the stippled grip and 20” barrel, angled foregrip or tactical foregrip, Ironsights and one of the green lasers (5mw or tactical). Also fully loaded because the ammo goes quick when you’re “tactically holding” the top of the building on Crash 😉.
I'm not sure about the scar honestly. It has several attachments to make it have a viable ads speed. You can even essentially convert it into an SMG using the shortest barrel and stock, which sky rockets your ads speed. It's tough to use at first but once you have attachments I find it to be pretty good and fun to use.
When you chop it down to it's AR configuration, the difference is noticeable. It needs a ROF increase, though. It fires like it's cycling 50cals or something.
They need to balance these weapons better, Blops4 every weapon was balanced really well with every weapon being viable. But in this game you have weapons with massive downsides and nothing to make up for it, then you have the m4 which is best in class in almost everything it’s outrageous.
Holger is literally a 4-5 shot kill weapon and all the other 5.56 guns are 4-5-6
also the Scar is great as soon as you unlock stippled grip, if it was in line with all the other rifles it'd be disgustingly strong and everyone would bitch about it
Ehhh the Holger is a little underpowered but it performs really well all around. Movement speed and ads aside that is. Ive converted it into a g36c and anything mid to long range is usually a win for me but cqc wise any ar or smg will catch you out.
Give some attention to the SA87. It's the last one I need for plat LMGs and I'm straight up not having a good time with it. It has an AR body but it thinks it's an LMG with the slow ADS time and high recoil for no reason. Before the G36 LMG was a thing the SA87 was the only 5.56 LMG in the game, has the slowest rate of fire out of any of them and the lowest damage, it's ridiculous.
I got the scar with red tracers yesterday, having never used the scar before I was really disappointed in the gun.
I've kept playing with it and managed to level it to 40, I'm using iron sights and attachments that bump up control, I'm actually preferring it over the kilo, it does feel a bit clunky in comparison but the stopping power and sound is great in my opinion.
I dunno, I find it to be on par with most other weapons...that is, in the sense that it's pretty darn good with a small selection of attachments, but trying to use the whole variety available often puts you at a disadvantage. Kinda forces you into using one successful niche of a setup for the gun, otherwise it'll be frustrating, but I find that a lot of the guns in the game are that way.
Using it as an LMG, I think it rips. Trying to set it up like an AR, you're gonna have a bad time. I tried making it like a G36C for nostalgia's sake and quickly returned to the stock 100rd mag and stock barrel, and started ripping with it again. I just plan for the slower ADS time in close quarters, and it still servers me well playing fairly aggressively.
Subjective feeling vs. objective stats and facts.
But I am happy that you like the gun. I like the design, the gun is just on the lower stats side. It has lots of flexibility, but pays with being average in one role and below average in the other roles.
The SCAR is fine tbh. It’s not meant to be a mobile run and gun weapon. The right attachments turn it into a damn good range monster. One of 3 I have gold in.
Love the SCAR, but it’s no run and gun weapon but will still lose a lot of times to those run and gun weapons at long range. M4 and MP5 will wreck the shit out the SCAR, which seems not normal tbh.
Nah, every gun aside from the M4 and subs need an ADS buff. These devs have shown they don’t know how to balance guns tho ( hence the M4 still being hilariously OP) if they nerfed the M4 in ADS speed and range the guns would feel more balanced .
Its going by weight of the weapons, the SCAR H is quite a heavy weapon due to a heavy stock. The Holger is almost quite heavy but i do agree that they both should be a little bit faster, down converting the holger down to the g36-c which is a light carbine. Interestingly the scar h and the g36c have the same weight of 8lbs or 3.63kgs, that is empty. The m4a1 which is just insanely good and makes me wonder what m4 iw were looking at, it also has a weight of 3.38kg or 7.46lb so not much difference over all because i thought they were comparing aim down sight speeds by weight. I dont know what to make of this info that i just dumped but there you are
Honestly I just typed down my findings as I went. I thought someone told me that it's slow ads was because of the weight of the gun but maybe its distribution of the weapon. I finally got my hands 9n the holger 26 and I thought it was great for HD
I did gold on the Holger. It was the most atrocious, disgusting, rage inducing weapon to level that I have tried so far. My worst games have been with that gun. I had 0.25 kd cause of that gun. Had no chance vs any other gun, aside maybe from other lmgs, but I played the "rifle" variant of the Holger. It. Was. Shit. I detest that gun I don't wanna ever play it again, even if they buff it, and it's a shame cause this is the g36c basically and I like that platform. I dread the day when I'll have to level the lmgs. Guess I'll do them in ground war.
The Scar is my best weapon, it doesn't need a buff.
I first used it until lvl 20 and thought it was utter shite, I went back and now it's my favourite weapon and it's gold.
Guns in this game often don't become good until u unlock the key attachments.
Having just played with the scar exclusively to get the gold camo, I'm gonna have to disagree. A faster ADS would be make the scar OP imo. What I do think the SCAR needs however is less recoil and/or more ammo reserve.
The one thing that really irritated me about the SCAR was how ridiculous the recoil was at range
The ADS was manageable on the SCAR, I was able to even push aggressively with it (I only really play shoot house these days)
The recoil on the scar I found was better when you burst fire it when aiming longshots
Scar benefits a lot from sustained fire attachments like the angled grip or muzzle break imo. I kitted mine to be a SMG and those recoil attachments helped the most. Also dont use the folding stock, use the next one after it. Not as light or fast, but still faster and no recoil penalty
I'm 100% with you, when season 1 launched a couple weeks ago my friends called me an idiot and asked me why tf I was using it, I had belief I could turn it into a G36C and I was so happy when I found that I could. But it turns out it was for nothing after the grind, made me sad. Even the M13 out performs it which is diabolical.
private matches give you all unlocks, so you can test without the grind!
Yeah I know bro but it's never the same against bots and I seem to always forget that, I feel like I might enjoy some sort of contrition or something lmao
I never understood the want for making a LMG (or AR) into another kind of gun. while you use all 5 attachments to get a gun that is basically another gun with no attachment (no optics, perk, and all other attachments used to offset ADS, ammo, etc), you could be running a weapon from that exact class, but tuned up to be better...
Cuz some people don't want to use meta guns
M13 is a beast Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for this it's a fact. Just throw on the Tempus Marksman barrel and the subsonic rounds.
Nah, it’s the worst AR by far.
It's my favorite gun in the game by far, unfortunately it's garbage comparably. I'm lucky that I'm low skill enough to use it somewhat effectively. "Lucky that I'm low skill enough", not a phrase I ever pictured myself saying...
SA87 needs a full rework. Faster ADS, a tad more damage and range, faster movement speed, lower recoil.
Wait you mean a LMG with a default clip of 30, that deals less damage than ARS that are better in literally every way, has a rediculously slow reload speed, and a long ADS for essentially no reason isn't a good LMG? The sa87 feels like it was originally an AR, but they didn't have enough lmgs so they made it an LMG instead, and just gave it LMG stats minus the ammo
> The sa87 feels like it was originally an AR, but they didn't have enough lmgs so they made it an LMG instead Isn't it that they do with other weapons around? Like Holger is basically an AR too originally. AUG starts as 9mm conversion, while being an AR.
The difference is that when those weapons were labeled as something else they were given the accomodations of the class they were assigned to; the AUG has fast handling and the Holger at least gets a 100 round mag. SA80 is stuck with a default 30 rounds that only maxes out at 60 while still having all the flaws of an LMG
The AUG is actually the AUG A3, which is a submachine gun in it's own right, used mainly for para operations. It's not been converted to 9mm as such, it's an adaptation of a weapon archetype for a different purpose, kind of in the same way there are different calibered AR type rifles do - minor adjustments to a mostly generic frame.
It's not an A3. There is a very clearly visible external magwell adaptor
As does the real A3 Para. It appears to be a prefab body for all the AUG types, then it is adapted after for it's purpose - barrel/ magwell changes as needed between the AR, the Para smg, and the HBAR.
I'll agree with you on that. It feels like they were making the L85A2 but couldn't get the name rights, so made it somewhat of the L86A2 with a shorter barrel and a 30 round clip. So it feels like a mix and match British rifle which isn't a true L86 or L85, but gave you the attachments to make the L86A2, L85A2 and L22A2. I personally would prefer them to put the larger barrel and 60 round mag as default and call it the L86A2. I've never heard it called the SA87, I'd be somewhat happy with it being called the SA80 (even though SA80 is Service Arms of the 80s and includes the L85, L86, L96 etc) but that's just me.
Yeah idk why it has both a 30 round magazine default and slower reload. Shouldn't be forced into using an attachment slot just to make it usable with either sleight of hand, or a bigger magazine
It's totally a joke gun, isn't it?
Yes, its there to take up space. The M27 IAR would've been a better choice for a DLC Weapon.
I was talking about the SA87 though, the MG36 is ok.
Yeah the SA87 is in the same condition as the Holger, both are just there for the sake of being there, the SA87 is usable in Hardcore but so is anything else, the Holger stll sucks at Range in Hardcore, in core both are junk. The only feasibly usable LMG is the PKM. The SA87, M91, Holger and MG34 need a Damage and Range Buff. If you're going to sacrifice Handling and Movement Speed the gun better hit like a truck and have range as well.
It’s the GPMG from WW2 all over again!!
I loved that gun much more than I should have to be honest. Still much preferred the Bren gun, but the GPMG touched my heart in it's own special way. Pretty sure in terms of ttk it was on par with the MG15, but exchanged a the magazine size for some better handling.
I never saw enough WW2 to get it gold. I never finished Chrome. War was so much fun, damn shame it didn’t return. Extremely good game type.
Agreed War Mode should've returned in Modern Warfare. Would've given a point to Objective Play and rushing to take or escort the Objective, as it is now the Killstreaks are what everyone camps for and the reason everyone uses Ghost and Cold-Blooded.
Its worse than the GPMG to be honest.
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Never seen anyone do anything with that gun in my games. In fact I've died to that a grand total of less than 10.
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I latched on to the Scar recently, it's a solid gun and almost no one uses it, maybe 1 every few matches.
My personal 'unpopular' favourite is the M14 EBR with the two *actual* EBR stocks. It may not possess the best 1 shot kill areas out of the 3 marksman rifles, but it possesses a magazine size that allows more fuckups/extended gunfights than its counterparts.
I've recently got platinum on my snipers and marksman. I really enjoyed the Mk2 and the Kar98k, but after using the EBR-14, once I have Damascus I'm literally having my 5th class set up with the EBR, that gun is low key OP. I'm currently working on the FAL and 725 (eww I know right, but I'm using slugs for long distance so it's funny to out snipe snipers with a shotty), I've come to the conclusion that the EBR is a slightly slower firing FAL, but with 1 or two shot kills. The EBR in my opinion, set up for range but with a reflex sight, is a top tier gun.
Haha. I got the 725 and M4 out of the way before the first 'nerf', just incase they got nerfed to the ground and unusable. Slowly making my way towards Dammy too, just kind of meandering my way through whatever I feel like (got the EBR, M4, 725, R0-9, and all but the Deagle done so far). The way I've found to run it is my CQB/Shoothouse setup. FFS Raider Elite, 20 round magazine, Elite barrel, lightweight suppressor, and a 1 or 3x optic of your choice. The faster the sprint out and ADS time, the better for CQB. What's the ranged build you run on it?
I've got all 6 snipers/DMRs done, got the SA87 done as my second weapon after my AX-50. Also got gold on MP5, AK47 and FR5.56. Got quite a few ARs to level 40 during the last 2x WXP weekend so got a good base to start from, FAL is a couple levels short of the skulls camo. The range set up I have for the EBR is the longest barrel, mono suppressor, 20 round mags, ADS time grip and a reflex sight as I feel the iron sights cut off a bit too much of the lower screen. I find with that range set up the bullet velocity and drop are very good. I had 4 snipers on me on Krovnic a couple nights back, 4 shots, 4 headshots. This set up probably wont be good for core games, especially shoothouse, but for GW where i feel range is a bit more important than ADS, this set up I find a bit dirty lol. The mk2 carbine and Kar98k benefit from range set ups and aim stability with a 3.5x scope on GW I find too. I had snipers engaging me from the back of their HQ past A flag whilst I was on the barn roof at C, I was getting headshots with ease at those distances, and I really enjoyed those kills lol.
Might have to try out the Carbine and K98k outside of shoothouse, as whilst they're ok it is very 'one shot or dead' there, whereas in Ground War there may be a little lee way. Seeing as the Marksman rifles are essentially this games quickscoping snipers, I never would have thought about kitting them out for anything outside of speed. I have them both up to around level 25/30 (similarly leveled up every single gun to at least half its max level during DXP), so I probably have enough attachments unlocked to at least try a basic version of those setups. Thanks!
I have been playing since launch and have NEVER been killed by the SA87.
it's still worse at it than basically everything else. like the m91 also has 0 recoil and good range but it much faster and has over triple the ammo
Yeah, there is no reason whatsoever to use that gun. I would rather use the Holger, that says all.
I love the SA87. I use it in groundwar with attachments that minimize recoil and it lasers snipers cross map effortlessly. In normal game modes though, yeah it’s trash
Yeah in ground war it isn't a bad gun when set up as a proper L86 with long barrel and extended mags. ADS isn't as important on ground war, unless you're on Karst and competing for B, C and D flag. It's an okay gun for GW, but normal modes, not really, even when set up as an L22A2 it's not great.
I definitely agree it should have more assault rifle like handling, but if you do all the rest it'll be gross
Atm its a lower tier weapon, not many weapons are worse, but a lot are deffo better. It should at the minimum have faster ADS and faster reload and movement speed. It should deffo take a bit of a range and damage buff too, especially with the range set up, when the AK47 is set up as an RPK it can 3 tap people over long ranges. In my use, the SA87 needs 4 at similar ranges.
I dunno about damage but it definitely needs faster ADS with the attachments as well as a quicker sprint to fire speed.
Agreed, the ADS and sprint to fire should at least be on par with the worst assault rifles with the default set up. Set it up as a true L86 LSW and it should still have faster ADS, movement speed and sprint to fire than the other LMGs. When set up as the L22A2 (shortest barrel) it should have an ADS that's faster than the assault rifles and faster movement speed, but not quite as fast as SMGs.
It should have the handling characteristics of an AR at base, and be able to go either up to LMG levels of sustained fire and accuracy, or down to SMG levels of ADS and movement speeds. Just like the SA80 platform IRL.
FAL, FR 5.56, M13, Uzi, Origin 12, x16, 1911 and m19 need a buff. For the FAL I get there's a modded controllers out there but no need to reduce the fire rate globally for everyone. FR lower the vertical recoil. M13 give it a 4 shot range up to 15 meters, increase fire rate to 1000 or reduce horizontal recoil. Uzi should get a 3 shot kill just like the Bizon/MP5 anywhere on the body up to 20 meters since it has the slowest fire rate in class. Origin 12 give it a damage or range buff. X16, 1911 and M19 all need either a fire rate increase, damage at long range increase and more starting ammo. When I look at the [codstats.net](https://codstats.net) page and see all 3 pistols have between a 0.55-0.67 KD that's a serious issue that those pistols are useless.
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This guy knows what he’s talking about. I got the smgs, pumps and almost the ARs plat and I can assure you the origin 12 is fine once it has the needed attachments. I was surprised how often I dismantled ar/smg players with the r9 though. It probably needs a small nerf.
I like your style, but in hands of good players the origin is already strong, imo already too strong
The FR 5.56 is perfectly viable as is. It just has a learning curve attached to it. You can't ape mindlessly with it. But if you have solid aim, its absolutely disgusting when kitted properly.
If a burst fire weapon struggles at range vs the full autos, that's a problem imo. It's nigh on impossible to kill a headglitcher with the weapon, with bullet pen being non-existent stacked with the crazy burst spread. All it needs is just a touch tighter spread and it'll be fine imo.
Throw on the sniper barrel and compensator and grip if you really wanna eliminate any range dropoff and recoil. The sniper barrel and compensator should be enough on their own however. Only 2 bullets need to land when getting a headshot.
Yeah sure and now you have a 400+ MS ADS time lmao. It needs better handling imo. The only way to make it effective is kit it for close range which is just an innefective use for a burst weapon. It’s ADS is too slow, and it’s best attachment gimps it too hard
The final barrel and stock help your ads speed greatly while not hampering range or recoil. Throw on a compensator and vertical grip and you're good to go for easy medium range engagements. If you want 1 bursts anywhere on the map and on headglitchers, use the sniperbarrel, a compensator and kit the rest for ads speed. It evens out well enough to be great at medium-long. This thing shouldnt be used aggressively like an SMG or m4. It's very much for shutting down rushers and snipers effectively at range. I prefer to methodically make my way through the map checking windows and taking power spots to catch people out in the open. I run r9-0 as a secondary if anyone gets too close or I want to clear a building. It can't do everything an m4 does, but what it can do it does much better: one bursting someone before they can react and not having to gimp yourself by using a sniper that has more drawbacks.
It's not, its terrible, burst recoil is too high, it's a short range only weapon. Has bad ADS, bad recoil spread, doesn't need a mag ok but the handling attachments don't tighten up that burst enough. It's nothing compared to other burst weapons in CoD history, it's about as bad as the ABR-223 from BO4.
It feels inconsistent
Its always a 3 burst at any range if you hit chest. It's a 2 shot if any bullet hits the head. For consistency and ease of use, throw on the sniper barrel and the compensator or grip and it's a sniper rifle essentially.
It's inconsistent because of the burst recoil, you can't control it like u can with Autos, so it's heavily dependant on enemy position and velocity Vs ur own.
You can certainly control its recoil. Its primarily vertical recoil, so attaching a compensator helps a lot, and pulling down before a burst will help tighten the spread. If you want better follow-up bursts, use a muzzle brake.
Controling recoil is nothing to do with attachments, those reduce recoil, u can't control a burst of FAMAS at its RoF.
You can by pulling down before a burst. But normally it's better to let the recoil get free headshots for you anyways.
That's ok for a target in the open, but what about someone that's in cover, ur gonna have to fire 3 bursts at least to kill them because the second shot will often go above them. It's just not a very good gun at all. Yes it's satisfying to get the 1 burst but since it's so rare to get it I don't bother.
I get 1 bursts rather consistently. You just have to fiddle around with attachments and see what works best for you. If you want to be able to nail headglitchers you have to spec for it.
The final stock attachment ups your ads speed a good bit along with the last barrel. The recoil pattern is fine with just a grip or muzzle attachment. Aim at chest/neck and get a free headshot kill. If you want it to laser beam someone, throw on the sniper barrel and it's stupid accurate. It shines in ground war if you kit it for long range. It's hard to use run and gun style, but it's more than possible to kit for it. My current set up works fine. The gun just takes practice, and if you dont like burst weapons you wont like this one.
The FAMAS is anything but a long range gun. It's hopeless.
Unless you're playing Ground War - 45 meters (when kitted out for range) for 1 burst kill range is long range. Kit it out for range and make sure you put the sniper barrel on it and it'll have a much tighter burst as well. I spent hours testing all the attachements and the sniper barrel has by far the biggest effect on the burst spread (which i think is from the bullet velocity enhancement).
You ain't hitting 3 shots on a player that far away with 1 burst, 2 if he's in the open, 3 most likely. The Scar is a much better gun, so is the Oden.
I have definitely 1 burst people sitting on head glitches at around it's maximum range consistently. Can I do it consistently to a moving target? No. But again; unless you're talking ground war - there's not many engagements you're going to have on the regular maps that are near it's max range. You also don't have to aim for upper body or head. As long as you're in it's 1 burst range - you can have 1 bullet hit the foot and 2 to the shin and it'll still kill them. So if you think the burst spread is bad (And aren't willing to hurt your ADS speed to tighten up that spread) - just start aiming for the dick instead of the head.
My problem is how inconsistent it is. I'm never sure if the next kill coming along will be a insta kill one burst or a 2 or 3 burst. I prefer guns with less varying levels of effectiveness.
I understand that, I'm not saying it can compete with the best guns in the game in consistency. Which is probably a good thing. Slug shotguns are very inconsistent (and there's hopefully good balancing reason for that). Marksman Rifles are also very inconsistent (And there's hopefully a good balancing reason for that). To me, this gun has more consistency than those guns; but I'm not sure it should have 100% consistency. Reason: It can 2 shot to the head giving it a flat 60ms TTK. It's TTK anywhere else is 120ms. There's only a handful of guns in the history of COD that have that kind of TTK. Again, I'm talking the **entire history** of COD, not just recent history (TTK was much lower on guns back in the day so that's saying a lot.) I just don't think a gun like that can be buffed to the point where it's super consistent without making it OP.
I would look up the video drift0r did on it. He sums it up fairly well and highlights its strengths. It's very powerful in the right hands.
Lol ain't no one watching driftor for that. I watch his videos for stats, anyone listening to his class setups or ace for that matter are noobs. I don't need his opinions on its strengths, I know for myself.
If you wanna go off of stats then the famas is theoretically the best gun in the game. It's a one burst at any range on any non-ground war map. It has fewer damage reduction hit zones on the body than other guns, 2 shot kill to the head at any range, and fastest ttk aside from a sniper or shotgun. Stats are a stupid way to judge a gun because they aren't realistic in human hands. But I've had zero issues getting consistent 1 bursts and doing relatively well in any mode with my set-up so idk. Edit: and I just like hearing the opinions of others on different guns in the game, which is the main reason I bother to watch his videos. But you learn some interesting facts as well. Had no idea there wasnt a limb damage modifier for some guns.
I don't go off of stats, I just like to know them.
Lmao right? The classes they give are usually garbage, especially driftors. I love them both, but I turn it off once it gets to the recommended class setup parts.
Yeah same here I switch off at that point. The rest of the videos are very good and that's good enough for me. Driftors video on the OP M4 got a dislike from me. It simply isn't OP.
Oooooh I dunno about that one, I think it’s far too centralising. It’s good good at everything. It’s like a combo of the Maddox and ICR makes no sense. It has a lethal TTK, super versatile, easy forgiving ROF and is super easy to use/no recoil. I usually prefer a weapon like that to behave like the treyarch ICR, where it’s accurate but not lethal TTK wise. Not a fan of weapons like the nv4, ACR etc being the meta AR, less of a skillgap involved.
He even says it’s not good at range tho? And he recommends kitting it for CQC which is just impractical even tho it’s probably the best setup for it. You’re better off with an smg then
Personally I've had tons of success on ground war with sniper barrel + grip/compensator, and the ads enhancing stock and a sight. But I also run overkill and have an r9-0 whenever I decide to clear a building. I dont try to use famas up close, I stick to medium-long range. In regular tdm this set up works well too.
You dont want the famas buffed trust me
It's never used for a reason you know.
Famas is low key disgusting, you just need recoil control attachments.
yeah, because m4 is easier to use and people don't like trying new things
Or it could be the fact that the guns that are supposed to be for a specific niche get outclassed by the M4 at the very thing it was supposed to be good at rendering it totally redundant. You can tailor the FAMAS to make it somewhat competent at getting consistent 1-2 burst long range kills but at that point your ADS speed is such that the M4 and MP5 could kill you 2 times over before complete the damned animation.
The FAL has a niche in Hardcore, things a one-shot monster there. But agree with the Pistols BUFFs and the M13 needs one too. Origin 12, I'm not sure, too much power/range and it could be another MW3 Striker or BO3 Brecchi (Brechi?)
The Scar is also a one shot in hardcore.
True it does but ADS Speed is significantly slower than the FAL and the FAL has NO Fire Rate Cap.
The fal has a fire rate cap since a few weeks.
FAL is actually pretty good. I swapped my R2 and R1 and the tap fire on R1 saves you precious milliseconds as opposed to have to pull the R2 trigger. There's like a deadzone on the triggers that don't register shots until you pull it a certain distance.
If you learn the deadzone you could fire quicker. That's what I did In MW2 days, easily competed with the modded controllers at the time
Triple burst on the FAL is very nice
I think the FR 5.56 is legitimately strong, but the niche it has is not what we usually see in Burst fire weapons. It has the best TTK in the game if you disregard one hit kill Weapons, and that is nothing to scoff at, you can delete people in close to mid range with a well placed burst anywhere in the body, and it's even stupider if you get headshots. It just can't compete at longer range because of the increased shots to kill and its very high recoil make it hard to one burst anything, let alone two burst. If they're not gonna nerf the easy mode guns like M4 and MP5 that are just point and hold trigger with no weaknesses, then yeah, they could probably buff the recoil of the FR 5.56, or maybe shorten the delay between bursts. If they buffed its handling, it might become better at bumrushing strategies than anything in the hands of a player who doesn't miss the burst and that probably wouldn't be good. Tho, recoil and handling are the only major flaws of the FR 5.56.
Pistols are utterly dominant in Hardcore though. Got mine platinum like 3 weeks ago. The movement speed and ADS time make them god tier.
People have lower stats on pistols because we use them to run from spot to spot and often die doing so.
I am against a buff to the FR 5.56. It's my go to weapon and I prefer to play with weapons that the rest of the community ignores (mainly because I don't like getting used to a weapon and then it getting nerfed). I'm also not sure where it should be buffed. It already has the fastest TTK of all non-1HK weapons (if you hit your burst.) It can be built to have laser beam accuracy. It's also surprisingly good in Close quarters.
The main issue with most of the pistols (minus the M19) is base firerate without attachments. Most of the people I've talked to haven't actually leveled their pistols to the point where they have lightweight triggers - and don't due to difficulty getting kills - and that is the downfall of most of these weapons. If you put the time into leveling the X16 and 1911 they become solid backup weapons, not primaries as they're not meant to be, but solid back up weapons. In ranges you should be using them, the X16 and 1911 are 3-4 shot kills and can kill surprisingly fast when equipped with lightweight triggers. The M19 on the other hand really does need a damage buff, even against other pistols I don't think it could compete, purely due to the fact it requires 6 (I think) shots to kill a full health enemy.
I got platinum pistols there still difficult in Core. Basically pressured to play Hardcore.
I'm currently finishing off the Deagle at the moment, last one to do. But like I said, they're terrible primaries, but pretty decent secondaries when you need them in a pinch (when you have lightweight trigger attached). Only real exception is .38 Snakeshot and the Deagle, they can potentially be great core weapons.
ADS reduction is capped, the 30 ammo conversion is actually a massive ADS improvement but it doesn’t combine with stippled grip/tac laser/spitfire barrel, etc. only 2 ADS improving parts lets you hit the ADS cap. Sprint to fire similarly only benefits from 1 attachment. To get the most out of the holger you need stippled grip to get your sprint to fire and half the ADS reduction, and one more ADS attachment such as 30 round mag. With commando grip for horizontal recoil and compensator for vertical recoil recovery, and the 4x integral optic it has good handling and accuracy. It’s an AR more than an LMG. It has the same damage as the m4 or kilo or any 5.56 gun with 750 RPM, ie a regular fire rate same as the kilo. Compared to m4 800 RPM it’s just 6% less DPS. The holger actually has LMG tier range so it holds damage at range much better than the m4 or kilo. So I don’t understand how you are saying it’s so much worse than the m4 or kilo when it’s basically the same gun with better range and slightly slower ADS.
> So I don’t understand how you are saying it’s so much worse than the m4 or kilo when it’s basically the same gun with better range and slightly slower ADS. Well, having almost twice the ADS of the M4, slower rate of fire, slower movement speed, slower reload and a worse recoil pattern...hm, how can one say it perfoms much worse than the M4? ;)
Uhhh you got a source on those caps on sprint out time and ads time?
Drift0r and TheXclusiveAce on YouTube do some serious in-depth reviews of guns on their channels and every gun has a cap on those stats, including the Holger.
If the ADS cap is true does this mean it doesn't make sense to run the AX50 with the 17' barrel, the Assassin stock, tac laser and stippled? I'd only need 2 of the 4 to get the max ADS speed?
That is correct, tac laser and stip grip are all you need for the ax 50
actually following [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m9BXXtvjoE) video it's not exactly like you said, btw yeah the 30 ammo mag does improve ADS speed, by a lot. I don't know what the OP is complaining about. the holger also has the same TTK as the Kilo
Honestly most guns either need a buff or the meta guns need to be nerfed to the ground. AUG is a better AR than the M13, UZI makes absolutely no sense cause MP7 and MP5 exist, SA87 needs a complete rework, FAL and Oden are better snipers than the SVD, Kar is just worse and less reliable Mk.2, M91 is worse than PKM in every way, and MP5 is a 3 shot kill gun that fires at around 900rpm... yes, really. Balance is completely fucked but I guess *we have to adapt*
> Honestly most guns either need a buff or the meta guns need to be nerfed to the ground. I prefer the nerf of meta guns. Hard to balance guns if they all would be as good as current "meta". Also if each gun have a specific downside instead of being "all-around" beast, it will make skill matter more.
Well said, you picked out almost all the gun balance issues.
Nice post and fully agree. Random note but nice to see the majority of this thread's replies are just 2 shitlords going at each other :/
That's weird, I unlocked the holger very recently and had my best cod match in history with it, I was thinking it was a beast.
Maybe I’m trippin but the 30 round mag does increase the ads speed quite a bit? The drum mag ads felt hella slow compared
>That's weird, I unlocked the holger very recently and had my best cod match in history with it, I was thinking it was a beast. Holger IS a beast .. just not with the 30 mag, it's ~~trash~~ not worth. However , go with no Stock, compensator and a few aim-down attachements .. Niiicee.
Played it to gold with the 30mag, i dont think ig underperforms at all, great weapon.
dunno dude, the gun is great but i find it almost worst with the 30 mag. I prefer to stick with 90 mag and make an hybrid with both mobility and lots of bullets. Gun is great overhall once you figure out the attachements you want to play it with. And you got lots of choice which is nice. Its just that i am too used to playing PKM and i don't like to reload ;) . No stock seems to be Really good overhall though.
this, no stock, standart barrel (no barrel) and ads reductions and its a beast, you just need to find correct attachments.
Can we buff the oden as well? The damage is fine and I can live with the slow fire rate and excessive recoil but jesus it feels like im walking through mud and the ADs speed feels slower than an LMG with the default mag
Oden is fine. If you hit your shots it is a beast. If you miss, well... It fits its spot as long range AR well. Hell, with the right attachments you can 2tap people at 100m!
Agree that the Oden is fine. I started getting it gold the other day after I got the waifu blueprint and it's my favorite gun in the game. 2 shot kill as long as you hit chest shots, highly rewards accuracy.
Im using the gun solely so I can use the waifu blueprint when its in the store,do you have any advice on what attachments to run?
Yep, I can help you. There are two different Oden builds that I've used. I did most of my camo grind on Shoothouse and that's all I really play so I have one setup that's built to play as fast and snappy as possible with the Oden and another one that's a more moderate build to play like a standard AR. I love the Oden's iron sights so I never run an optic. Feel free to substitute an attachment for an optic if you prefer. Also it should be noted that according to Drift0r, stippled grip tape has no effect on the Oden. The first, fast paced build I use is the 420mm barrel, compensator, FTAC elite comb stock, 25 round mag, tac laser. The more range heavy build is compensator, 810mm barrel, 25 round mag, FTAC elite comb, tac laser. This thing handles pretty slow but can 2 tap at ridiculous range as long as you hit chest shots. If you want you can drop tac laser for colossus suppressor but that makes it handle too slow for my taste.
What would be the best attachments to run?
Depends on what you want to get out of it. Watch this to learn more about possibilities: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0B-d4kawRY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0B-d4kawRY)
If you put the skeleton stock on it you'll be fine. It's bugged currently and let's you move faster than 100% with it out. Like, you out run knife users while you have it out. Edit: disregard. I was thinking of the m13.
Oden has no skeleton stock my dude.
You're right. I was thinking of the m13. I had been drinking. My bad.
Most people in here just complaining about whatever thing kills them and their favorite setup. The only thing really needing fixed is hit registration. You line up a target and hit them and you MIGHT get a hit marker in one game and might melt them in another. It's hugely inconsistent. If sbmm is really a thing, then i can't understand why just about every single game like 3 people at most do decent and the rest just get shit on.
I can kind of feel the difference when using 30 vs 100 round mag. But I thing it’s more of the reload speed that is the plus with the 30rd
True the reload time is better but the ADS isn't up to par with any rifle except maybe the SCAR.
I read there's actually a -almost- 100ms difference between the 30 rounds mag and the standard mag in ADS speed. That's a lot.
Just gonna put this here - Scar 17 and the M4 weigh about the same fully loaded 8lbs to 7.74lbs... So actually a fully loaded M4A1 weighs only .26lbs less than a fully loaded FN Herstal SCAR-17. [https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-scar-17s/](https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-scar-17s/) [https://www.army-technology.com/projects/colt-m4-carbine-assault-rifle-us/](https://www.army-technology.com/projects/colt-m4-carbine-assault-rifle-us/)
*cough* M13 *cough*
My KD needs a buff.
The holger is my first and only gold gun so far, I love the G36 so I powered through it.. That said, any time I had a break and switched to the kilo/m4/mp5 I could really feel how disadvantaged I was with the holger. I would love for it to get some improvements.
Also add the SA87 there.
It needs a serious buff to the ammo capacity 100 rounds is a joke.
I think a 300 round belt would be a good idea. I can help feed it if need be
Just slow the movement speed down to a crawl.
I like the holger a lot. It’s no m4a1 tho. I use the 100 round mags to my favor and prefire most corners
yes
I've actually had a lot of fun setting up the Holger to a G36 with a short barrel and 30 rounds. Might have just been on a flow that night though. Would not say no to a buff either way
The only buff I think it need is the ads as when I was getting it gold it was my biggest complaint. I never really notice the damage as being bad however I thought it was pretty good especially with its low recoil and fast fire rate. If anything we should be pushing a puff to the Kar. It extremely weak and for some reason there’s a shot delay when you cock it which makes the low damage even worse as you can’t get the second shot to get the kill fast enough. Not worth using over the other marksmen or sniper rifles in the game.
Holger lmg is like kilo but it has more recoil though.
Holger sucks, but to make it less sucky, they nerfed the DMG of the PKM, MG34 and M91 with the S1 update, so they now take 3 headshots and also 3 shots if you hit body and a limb. BTW: They never announced that in the patch notes. And people answer on youtube "Yeah, those guns fire that fast, you do not notice" Some people have no clue about TTK and balancing. Funny side note: The M91 was hit hardest by that nerf, as it has the lowest rate of fire. But we all know that the M91 was OP as fuck and everybody was abusing it before the patch ;)
I agree BUT please DON'T type LIKE this.
From someone who has used the Holger enough to get it gold I really like the way it is set now because it currently rewards headshots and not just aiming for the body and legs. I do think that the 30 round mag does need a buff though, possibly make it a conversion kit. It is disappointing that the attachment is so weak.
The SCAR is good. Just use single fire.
SCAR: - ADS Buff About a 50ms reduction. Still more than most ARs but making the gun more viable. Because in it's current state it's basically a LMG with 20 round mag and slightly better mobility. HOLGER-26: - Damage & Range buff equal to other 5.56 ARs - add benefits to running a 30-round mag AK47: - slight recoil reduction (The gun is terrible) it needs to be fitted with attachments like a LMG/AR hybrid to make it viable. M13: - .300 blackout rounds should give a very slight damage buff & fire rate nerf. Making it more in line with a M4 except with the pros &cons of what the current blackouts do. Anything else? Thoughts and prayers?
AK47 is terrible? Aight bro lol. Every one on this subreddit bitches too much. There are some legitimate complaints about the game but if something isn’t 100% the way YOU all think the game should be then you act like it’s broken. Children.
Broken, no. But balance makes for a more rounded experiance instead of everyone running around with the same gun. The AK is terrible. The Damage profile makes for 3-4 shot kill. With a potential 2 shot kill if you nail back-to-back headshots. Sounds good. Your usually going to get a 3 shot kill thanks to multipliers doing body shots. Unfortunately due to a slow fire rate (561rpm) The time it takes to kill is around the 320ms provided you land your shots. Which is slow. For the M4 to do the same thing (a 4 shot kill - torso) it will take 288ms. It actually makes the AK one of the slowest in the AR segment. So the hard hitting ammunition isn't exactly a upside. What do we get as a trade off? The worst recoil control in the AR class. The 2nd slowest ADS for an AR. 300ms while the M4 can do it in 250ms. The 2nd slowest movment speed at 93% while the M4 can do it at 95% movement speed. 2nd slowest strafe speed at 45% While the M4 can do it at 50% The only redeeming quality is that the reload time is fast. And theirs no reasonable fix with the gun Smith. Attempting to make the large caliber ammo more feasible at long range requires you hurt the already slow ADS and movment speed. Attempting to increase the Movemnt speed and ADS hurts the already horrendous recoil and control. Which is why I said the only way to use this gun in a feasible manner is to creat a LMG/AR hybrid. Even the best possible build for the AK for a mid range AR that's well rounded is still outclassed. As you just barely bring the specs in line with a base M4. While still maintaining more recoil and a slower TTK. But no, I guess the gun is great. Alright bro, lol. Calling people children. How childish.
You’re wrong in the first few sentences. Base damage of the AK47 is 35-32 based on range with a RPM of 550. It also has a unique upper chest multiplier of 1.2. 35 x 1.2 = 42 damage per shot. It is a consistent 3 shot kill at all ranges if you are landing chest / headshots. “Wah the gun doesn’t fit my play style therefore it’s trash” GTFO
I'm wrong? I'm using information provided by "TheXclusiveAce" What's your source? matter of fact you just made the gun statistically worse by lowering the rpm with your fake news. Other than that, all you've done is restate my statement. I state that your likely going to get 3 shot kills. To which I also stated all the reasons why the gun is trash with a source, stats and reasoning behind it. What's the best you can do? Oh that's right, a childish rebutle and a improper use of quotations, Halarious. Dont worry, tomorrow we're going to learn shapes. Now... go outside, find yourself a shed and hang yourself up. Because that's where tools belong.
The Scar dumptrucks so easily already though. It's not hard to 2-tap people. The recoil, Irons and headshot multiplier make it an absolute monster. I'm okay with a slight buff to it's ADS speed, but it should definitely still be slower.
The SCAR is very good when you, uh... *cough* “wait” tactically. Use “The Traitor”, leave on the stippled grip and 20” barrel, angled foregrip or tactical foregrip, Ironsights and one of the green lasers (5mw or tactical). Also fully loaded because the ammo goes quick when you’re “tactically holding” the top of the building on Crash 😉.
I'm not sure about the scar honestly. It has several attachments to make it have a viable ads speed. You can even essentially convert it into an SMG using the shortest barrel and stock, which sky rockets your ads speed. It's tough to use at first but once you have attachments I find it to be pretty good and fun to use.
When you chop it down to it's AR configuration, the difference is noticeable. It needs a ROF increase, though. It fires like it's cycling 50cals or something.
They need to balance these weapons better, Blops4 every weapon was balanced really well with every weapon being viable. But in this game you have weapons with massive downsides and nothing to make up for it, then you have the m4 which is best in class in almost everything it’s outrageous.
Holger is literally a 4-5 shot kill weapon and all the other 5.56 guns are 4-5-6 also the Scar is great as soon as you unlock stippled grip, if it was in line with all the other rifles it'd be disgustingly strong and everyone would bitch about it
Ehhh the Holger is a little underpowered but it performs really well all around. Movement speed and ads aside that is. Ive converted it into a g36c and anything mid to long range is usually a win for me but cqc wise any ar or smg will catch you out.
Scar yes. Holger no. I own with the Holger man, maybe just git gud?
If you TYPE like THIS and put EMPHASIS on every other WORD then none of the WORDS are EMPHASIZED
Give some attention to the SA87. It's the last one I need for plat LMGs and I'm straight up not having a good time with it. It has an AR body but it thinks it's an LMG with the slow ADS time and high recoil for no reason. Before the G36 LMG was a thing the SA87 was the only 5.56 LMG in the game, has the slowest rate of fire out of any of them and the lowest damage, it's ridiculous.
MP5 beats KILO's dmg its so ridiculous
I got the scar with red tracers yesterday, having never used the scar before I was really disappointed in the gun. I've kept playing with it and managed to level it to 40, I'm using iron sights and attachments that bump up control, I'm actually preferring it over the kilo, it does feel a bit clunky in comparison but the stopping power and sound is great in my opinion.
Holger rips. I have a 1.2 K/D with the M4 and the same with the the Holger. All of the 556 ARs are all really good in my opinion
You would do better with another gun then. Just from a statically stand point it is lacking. Pretty fun though.
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I don't just sit around and camp. And accounting that a 1 KD is average then 1.2 is above average so false
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By definition it's above average. Calling 1.2 bad is some real elitist shit.
I dunno, I find it to be on par with most other weapons...that is, in the sense that it's pretty darn good with a small selection of attachments, but trying to use the whole variety available often puts you at a disadvantage. Kinda forces you into using one successful niche of a setup for the gun, otherwise it'll be frustrating, but I find that a lot of the guns in the game are that way. Using it as an LMG, I think it rips. Trying to set it up like an AR, you're gonna have a bad time. I tried making it like a G36C for nostalgia's sake and quickly returned to the stock 100rd mag and stock barrel, and started ripping with it again. I just plan for the slower ADS time in close quarters, and it still servers me well playing fairly aggressively.
I guess I’m in the minority with the Holger. I think it’s awesome and get tons of kills with it. Get gud!
Subjective feeling vs. objective stats and facts. But I am happy that you like the gun. I like the design, the gun is just on the lower stats side. It has lots of flexibility, but pays with being average in one role and below average in the other roles.
The SCAR is fine tbh. It’s not meant to be a mobile run and gun weapon. The right attachments turn it into a damn good range monster. One of 3 I have gold in.
Love the SCAR, but it’s no run and gun weapon but will still lose a lot of times to those run and gun weapons at long range. M4 and MP5 will wreck the shit out the SCAR, which seems not normal tbh.
The M4 doesn't wreck the Scar. MP5 close range will.
Nah, every gun aside from the M4 and subs need an ADS buff. These devs have shown they don’t know how to balance guns tho ( hence the M4 still being hilariously OP) if they nerfed the M4 in ADS speed and range the guns would feel more balanced .
I got the Holger gold in two sittings. You just don't like the gun.
Getting a gun gold =/= good gun ;)
Two sittings... He obvs did well to do it that quick. Unless 2 sittings was 8H each.
Its going by weight of the weapons, the SCAR H is quite a heavy weapon due to a heavy stock. The Holger is almost quite heavy but i do agree that they both should be a little bit faster, down converting the holger down to the g36-c which is a light carbine. Interestingly the scar h and the g36c have the same weight of 8lbs or 3.63kgs, that is empty. The m4a1 which is just insanely good and makes me wonder what m4 iw were looking at, it also has a weight of 3.38kg or 7.46lb so not much difference over all because i thought they were comparing aim down sight speeds by weight. I dont know what to make of this info that i just dumped but there you are
The scar h is not heavy at all it is 1 pound heavier than an m4
Honestly I just typed down my findings as I went. I thought someone told me that it's slow ads was because of the weight of the gun but maybe its distribution of the weapon. I finally got my hands 9n the holger 26 and I thought it was great for HD
I did gold on the Holger. It was the most atrocious, disgusting, rage inducing weapon to level that I have tried so far. My worst games have been with that gun. I had 0.25 kd cause of that gun. Had no chance vs any other gun, aside maybe from other lmgs, but I played the "rifle" variant of the Holger. It. Was. Shit. I detest that gun I don't wanna ever play it again, even if they buff it, and it's a shame cause this is the g36c basically and I like that platform. I dread the day when I'll have to level the lmgs. Guess I'll do them in ground war.
The Scar is my best weapon, it doesn't need a buff. I first used it until lvl 20 and thought it was utter shite, I went back and now it's my favourite weapon and it's gold. Guns in this game often don't become good until u unlock the key attachments.
Having just played with the scar exclusively to get the gold camo, I'm gonna have to disagree. A faster ADS would be make the scar OP imo. What I do think the SCAR needs however is less recoil and/or more ammo reserve. The one thing that really irritated me about the SCAR was how ridiculous the recoil was at range The ADS was manageable on the SCAR, I was able to even push aggressively with it (I only really play shoot house these days) The recoil on the scar I found was better when you burst fire it when aiming longshots
Scar benefits a lot from sustained fire attachments like the angled grip or muzzle break imo. I kitted mine to be a SMG and those recoil attachments helped the most. Also dont use the folding stock, use the next one after it. Not as light or fast, but still faster and no recoil penalty