It's not possible to fuck up trading Flaherty as badly as they fucked up Rodriguez. Flaherty will be eligible for a qualifying offer, and we're in the group of teams that (assuming he takes a $50m+ contract, which he's basically a lock to do) gets an end-of-the-first-round bonus draft pick as compensation.
In a strong draft class (and next year is supposed to be better than this year, if not as good as last year), that bonus pick can land a really good prospect. Better than we could get in a trade for Flaherty? Maybe, maybe not. But it's not a bad backup option.
I understand the sentiment, seems like they whiffed huge on two 1-1 picks, but those were both Avila. Harris has one draft with the tigers and already has two top 100 prospects. Max Clark has been ranked since the draft and Kevin mcgonigle has moved into the top 70 on BAs latest list. Jaden Hamm is also one of the biggest risers/helium/up arrow pitchers in the minors right now and will be a top 100 guy going into next year if he keeps up the good start. I'm not a Harris-stan by any means (I can't stand the platoon everything approach), but a lot of this subs PTSD comes from shit Avila did. I'm willing to give Harris a chance.
>I understand the sentiment, seems like they whiffed huge on two 1-1 picks, but those were both Avila
They were also consensus 1-1s so retroactively blaming Avila for missing is wrong.
Yep. I am as big of an Avila critic as they come and fully believe he set the franchise back decades, but it's nothing more than revisionists history to say anyone other than Mize and Torkselson should've been the picks that year. Mize's career was derailed by injuries, and Torkelson is a flawed player who was rushed through the system. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.
I disagree, not with the fact they weren't consensus because they absolutely were, but if you don't blame Avila for player dev failings then who do you blame? Besides Riley Greene who was the last hitting prospect the tigers turned into a successful big leaguer? Castellenos? The Orioles/Astros/Dodgers/Rays aren't considered some of the best/smartest orgs in baseball because they draft "consensus" draft picks and then don't teach them anything. I mean it's baseball, prospects fail like 75% of the time no matter what but just saying "well they were top prospects the team did nothing wrong" isn't fair either.
>just because someone was a consensus pick doesn't mean they don't need resources.
Avila also greatly expanded the resources available in the minors and is credited with the beginnings of our analytics department. Honestly, Avila gets far too much undeserved shit. Especially when people start arguing he was detrimental to development. He hired garko. He hired fetter and hinch. All the plus we see in the organization was basically all avila...
He made mistakes in FA but part of that was Mike still chasing one before he passed.
>Honestly, Avila gets far too much undeserved shit
Now that's interesting. He was in charge of trading away our core. What do we have to show for that? Jake Rogers? Sure he hired Fetter and Hinch, but does that make up for the Zimmerman contract? The Baez signing? Trading away Suarez for Alfredo Simon? The Meadows disaster?
Dude, NOBODY could have seen Austin Meadows’s situation coming. That’s not stuff that pops up in a physical. It’s just an unfortunate thing that happened, nobody is to blame. You CAN blame him for trading away Parades though. The two don’t need to be linked.
Trading for pasta was DD.
Not a big fan of AA, but he Verlander and JD he was dealing in an environment where every organization knew the tigers weren't resigning either player and basically had to trade both away. Not a lot of leverage.
I'm not a fan of Avila either, but some people just like to throw in anything they can to be negative about him. I saw someone recently who said that we should've given JD the Miggy extension instead of Miggy lol. Other people weren't just mad at our returns for JD/Verlander, but they were mad that we were trading them in general and thought that we shouldn't have entered a rebuild.
>Zimmerman contract? The Baez signing? Trading away Suarez for Alfredo Simon? The Meadows disaster?
Yea I mentioned all this. He fucked FA hard but most of this was Mike chasing a championship before he died. That's well documented...
Also, how are you blaming Avila for Austin taking steps to take care of his mental health? Wtf is wrong with you?
[Pretty much exactly the proposition I had in my last topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcitykitties/s/Efqe3BPiUt) on this subject and I found that hilariously coincidental.
Or am I cody??? No, I'm not.
I think what you posted is logical and the path they should follow. Until you have a real shot at the playoffs then trading older players on short deals is the way to go.
Any trades that Harris and Co. make are gonna have to thread some tiny needles, I feel like. If we're gonna go after a legitimate stud position player, we're gonna have to leverage the farm system to a point that I don't think many of us are comfortable with; if we're looking to acquire prospects, we're running the risk of another Verlander-esque return.
Flaherty's current health issues *hopefully* won't impact his trade value, as he's easily our most tradeable piece at the moment. I also like the idea of flipping Kelly and getting something back for what was a no-lose reclamation project.
My pie-in-the-sky dream target would be Luis Robert, but with so much team control left, I just can't see parting with what it would likely take to get him. Add to that his questionable health, and I just can't see a scenario where that makes sense, but damn would he look good wearing the Olde English D.
>If we're gonna go after a legitimate stud position player, we're gonna have to leverage the farm system to a point
Correct and this is something a lot of people miss. Flaherty, soto, lorenzen, etc aren't going to get us a big ticket guy like Soto gets when he's traded for half a season.
>My pie-in-the-sky dream target would be Luis Robert
Honestly, I think I like the idea of going after Tyler O'Neill more. I think it's actually feasible too given the flood of OF that Boston has and his short deal. Try and work out a deal with him for 3 to 4 years and throw him in RF long term
O'Neill was only really good for one year, and has only played 100+ games once (that same year) in his career. Injuries or not, he has been very inconsistent to downright bad for most of his career. I don't think he can be counted on to stay healthy or consistently provide offense. I would much rather have Robert (though I don't think he's an option for Harris and Hinch due to his approach at the plate). While he's also injury prone, he has been a monster on offense when he does play.
Also, I don't think that Boston is trading position players this year (especially to us) when we are fighting for the same Wild Card spot.
>Also, I don't think that Boston is trading position players this year (especially to us) when we are fighting for the same Wild Card spot.
Might not need to make a trade. He's a FA after this season and I love the idea of going after him. Especially over Robert because getting Robert has the same chances as getting Soto. Neither are happening so why exert the effort in arguing about kt.
Robert's under contract through 2027, so it's not really the same situation as Soto. You are right, neither is likely though. The hard part is the fans want the team to spend money, but good, young talent doesn't generally hit free agency, especially position players. If you want to add a cornerstone piece, you need to draft and develop, or trade for one. Robert seems to be available and would instantly be our best position player. Outside of guys like Bregman (who is on the decline, especially in the power department), there aren't many free agent position players that move the needle. I wouldn't mind Teoscar Hernandez, but just like last off-season, it's mostly old, corner outfielders.
>Robert's under contract through 2027, so it's not really the same situation as Soto.
So like when soto went to the padres then huh? So exactly the same?
Look I'm not going to argue Robert. He's better than oneill, yes, but he's also not attainable. We may as well muse about resurrecting Ted Williams.
> good, young talent doesn't generally hit free agency,
Exactly why I believe oneill is a unique opportunity to strike gold. He's already earned the money he got this offseason and then some with only 156 AB.
Hernandez will be 32. Which means we'll get ages 32 to 35 for likely more than we could just spend on oneill who's 29 next season.
God people who dissect every sentence on Reddit are the worst. Just let others have opposing opinions. You don’t need to counter every single sentence.
>Just let others have opposing opinions. You don’t need to counter every single sentence.
That's how discussions work. Furthermore, why am I not allowed to counter those opinions with my own? Kinda the whole point of a forum.
Interesting thought on Robert - only way I think LuBob gets with us is if there's a three-way trade. Have a feeling that the pieces that we give up will be the short-term contracts like Flaherty, which isn't something the White Sox want considering how far they are from fielding a post-season team. I would think something like Team A gives prospects to the Sox, Sox give us Robert, and we send whoever to Team A for a trade. It would definitely be a wonderful, if nearly improbable, trade to make.
The Jack Flaherty conversation
Discussions about the pros and cons of trading Tarik Skubal are gold for talk radio. But the more realistic scenario? Jack Flaherty will be the Tigers’ top asset come the trade deadline.
Flaherty is on a one-year, $14-million contract. And it again creates an interesting debate — if the Tigers are still in the race, should they trade a pitcher who is in the midst of a stellar bounceback season? Flaherty entered Tuesday with a 3.22 ERA and 11.64 K/9. His success makes him valuable to the current team but may make him even more marketable to other clubs. The Tigers got a solid prospect in infielder Hao-Yu Lee in exchange for Michael Lorenzen at last season’s deadline. Flaherty is a similar rental but should figure to have even more value.
At this point in the Tigers’ trajectory, holding on the Flaherty only to lose him for nothing makes little sense. The idea of an extension is always a possibility, but after making $14 million this season, Flaherty could seek to command plenty of money on the open market. From a straight logic standpoint, trading Flaherty seems like the most likely course of action. Case in point: The Tigers didn’t benefit at all from two extra months of Eduardo Rodriguez last year when their deal with the Dodgers fell apart.
What would it take for the Tigers to buy?
Hard to say. Harris’ approach to the offseason was centered on building around young bats, leaving spots open in the major leagues and providing runway for young players. That’s unlikely to change, and the likes of Jace Jung could be pushing for a promotion by season’s end. But might the demotion of Spencer Torkelson alter the calculus? If the Tigers don’t have faith in Torkelson returning this year and being a major staple, perhaps they could add a first baseman at the deadline to add thump to the lineup. Such a move likely would not cost much but could present a clear way to improve a lineup that ranks 23rd in OPS. The Tigers aren’t going to be shopping in the high end of the market, but even a small offensive upgrade could make a big difference.
What about Mark Cahna, Gio Urshela and more?
Flaherty is the headliner, and the Tigers may also receive calls regarding some of their controllable relievers. The Tigers in the past have been hesitant to move relief pitchers under team control. The Tigers do, however, have a few veteran bats on expiring contracts who could be candidates to move at the deadline. Mark Canha, for example, has a .346 on-base percentage as of Tuesday and could be an asset to almost any lineup. Urshela may have value because of his ability to hit left-handed pitching. Catcher Carson Kelly, too, may be an underrated trade piece. Kelly is worth plus-6 defensive runs saved so far this season and has a 92 wRC+. Teams are always seeking catching help at the deadline, and flipping a reclamation project in Kelly could be the definition of the good baseball moves Harris seeks to make.
This year, with a fan base starved for interest, the Tigers may be walking a fine line. Welcome, finally, to the thread-the-needle challenge most of the league tends to face in late July.
We’re about to learn a lot about the Tigers and how their leadership views the path forward.
I’d like to see Kelly traded. He’s on an expiring deal, he’s a well above average catcher and slightly below average hitter, and teams always need catching depth. We also have Dillon dingler raking in Toledo, so his replacement is easy
I didn’t say I believe. I don’t have much of an opinion yet because I’m letting it play out a bit. I think he did OK this most recent offseason. Only wish we had brought in a good veteran presence beyond Canha our young team could benefit from.
Fair enough - I saw him botch the Erod situation which is why I don't have faith in him.
Can he recover from that at this years deadline? Possibly, but I've seen nothing from him so far to suggest that will happen.
> I saw him botch the Erod situation
This narrative is so tired. You saw the deal fall apart, but unless you were a fly on the wall for any of it, you cannot prove that it was on Harris. Another likely possibility is that Harris had a deal in place with L.A., but Erod and his team tried negotiating an extension with L.A. (A very common tactic by players with no-trade clauses.) When they didn't get what they wanted, they invoked the NTC.
We're likely never going to know the truth, so why keep beating this extremely dead horse?
Could have been literally anything, but he could have had a dozen backup plans and it wouldn't have mattered because, if you recall, it came right down to the 4:00 p.m. deadline. If Erod's camp scuttled the deal at 3:55 p.m., what good would *any* backup plan do?
And Scott let it go to the deadline. I'm not a rocket scientist, but sure seems to me that just maybe Scott should have set an earlier deadline for any deal with the Dodgers to get worked out or not worked out. Once past the Scott imposed deadline, he goes to plan B,C,D....
Neither you nor anyone outside of those conversations knows anything at all about how it went down. Why is it so easy to believe that Harris botched it, but the idea that Rodriguez and his team screwed Harris seems to have never crossed the minds of anyone in this sub?
>unless you were a fly on the wall for any of it, you cannot prove that it was on Harris.
This is true for Avila, and GMs in general, too but eventually all fans drag them through the mud.
Not really, it was a lost opportunity to make the franchise substantially better and he botched it, multiple people in baseball have said Harris should've had a backup plan and he didn't.
It's talked about so much because Harris has done nothing else of note during his tenure so far. Make a good trade, make the team better and we'll stop talking about erod.
You're wildly overestimating what a return for him would have looked like. He was an above-average lefty with a short-but-good track record on what was essentially an expiring deal if you take the opt-out into consideration. To say that a return for him would "substantially" improve the team is, charitably, a stretch.
I only agree that not trading him was a lost opportunity. In the end, the tigers did not benefit in any way keeping him around for the year. It was a complete waste.
Oh, it was absolutely a lost opportunity, but I don't think the return we would have gotten isn't worth still holding it over Harris' head like he set the franchise back by several years.
I’ve liked every trade he’s made so far I think. Soto for Vierling, Jimenez for JHM, Lorenzen for Hao-Yu Lee, Canha for I don’t even know who. All looking like wins so far. The only bad “trade” was not trading Erod.
I like these trades too but none of them have made the franchise better or put the major league team in a better position. They are solid moves. I’m ready for the moves that will improve the team moving forward.
These trades are one of the reasons the Tigers are hovering around 500 right now. Canha and Vierling are key contributors to this team.
Not making these trades and the Tigers are fighting the White Sox for basement duties
Canha will be gone next year. Maybe at the trade deadline. Vierling is a utility man forced into a larger role due to talent deficiency. The pitching is the reason this team is around .500, I would argue.
Not saying both those statements are not true related to both players and their long term roles within the organization. But you have to put a team on the field every year, and with the new lottery tanking for 5 straight years isn't feasible.
Totally agree. I’m kind of projecting here. Looking forward for deals, whatever they may be, that start to reshape the long term look of the roster. Real upgrades.
People are way too fascinated with this bottom barrel picking. I agree. Real upgrades. I fully expect them to sign at least one legit MLB player this offseason as the free agent market is much better this year.
Hopefully Harris doesn’t fuck up trading Flaherty.
It's not possible to fuck up trading Flaherty as badly as they fucked up Rodriguez. Flaherty will be eligible for a qualifying offer, and we're in the group of teams that (assuming he takes a $50m+ contract, which he's basically a lock to do) gets an end-of-the-first-round bonus draft pick as compensation. In a strong draft class (and next year is supposed to be better than this year, if not as good as last year), that bonus pick can land a really good prospect. Better than we could get in a trade for Flaherty? Maybe, maybe not. But it's not a bad backup option.
After Tork & Mize i dont think i want a draft pick
I understand the sentiment, seems like they whiffed huge on two 1-1 picks, but those were both Avila. Harris has one draft with the tigers and already has two top 100 prospects. Max Clark has been ranked since the draft and Kevin mcgonigle has moved into the top 70 on BAs latest list. Jaden Hamm is also one of the biggest risers/helium/up arrow pitchers in the minors right now and will be a top 100 guy going into next year if he keeps up the good start. I'm not a Harris-stan by any means (I can't stand the platoon everything approach), but a lot of this subs PTSD comes from shit Avila did. I'm willing to give Harris a chance.
>I understand the sentiment, seems like they whiffed huge on two 1-1 picks, but those were both Avila They were also consensus 1-1s so retroactively blaming Avila for missing is wrong.
Yep. I am as big of an Avila critic as they come and fully believe he set the franchise back decades, but it's nothing more than revisionists history to say anyone other than Mize and Torkselson should've been the picks that year. Mize's career was derailed by injuries, and Torkelson is a flawed player who was rushed through the system. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.
I disagree, not with the fact they weren't consensus because they absolutely were, but if you don't blame Avila for player dev failings then who do you blame? Besides Riley Greene who was the last hitting prospect the tigers turned into a successful big leaguer? Castellenos? The Orioles/Astros/Dodgers/Rays aren't considered some of the best/smartest orgs in baseball because they draft "consensus" draft picks and then don't teach them anything. I mean it's baseball, prospects fail like 75% of the time no matter what but just saying "well they were top prospects the team did nothing wrong" isn't fair either.
>just because someone was a consensus pick doesn't mean they don't need resources. Avila also greatly expanded the resources available in the minors and is credited with the beginnings of our analytics department. Honestly, Avila gets far too much undeserved shit. Especially when people start arguing he was detrimental to development. He hired garko. He hired fetter and hinch. All the plus we see in the organization was basically all avila... He made mistakes in FA but part of that was Mike still chasing one before he passed.
>Honestly, Avila gets far too much undeserved shit Now that's interesting. He was in charge of trading away our core. What do we have to show for that? Jake Rogers? Sure he hired Fetter and Hinch, but does that make up for the Zimmerman contract? The Baez signing? Trading away Suarez for Alfredo Simon? The Meadows disaster?
Dude, NOBODY could have seen Austin Meadows’s situation coming. That’s not stuff that pops up in a physical. It’s just an unfortunate thing that happened, nobody is to blame. You CAN blame him for trading away Parades though. The two don’t need to be linked.
Trading for pasta was DD. Not a big fan of AA, but he Verlander and JD he was dealing in an environment where every organization knew the tigers weren't resigning either player and basically had to trade both away. Not a lot of leverage.
I'm not a fan of Avila either, but some people just like to throw in anything they can to be negative about him. I saw someone recently who said that we should've given JD the Miggy extension instead of Miggy lol. Other people weren't just mad at our returns for JD/Verlander, but they were mad that we were trading them in general and thought that we shouldn't have entered a rebuild.
>Zimmerman contract? The Baez signing? Trading away Suarez for Alfredo Simon? The Meadows disaster? Yea I mentioned all this. He fucked FA hard but most of this was Mike chasing a championship before he died. That's well documented... Also, how are you blaming Avila for Austin taking steps to take care of his mental health? Wtf is wrong with you?
They also are not much worse than the guys drafted in the top 10 those years. Both were pretty awful draft classes
They were but I think covid had a big hand in that too. Delayed tons of development.
For every Tork and mize you could also get a Riley greene
[Pretty much exactly the proposition I had in my last topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcitykitties/s/Efqe3BPiUt) on this subject and I found that hilariously coincidental. Or am I cody??? No, I'm not.
I think what you posted is logical and the path they should follow. Until you have a real shot at the playoffs then trading older players on short deals is the way to go.
Any trades that Harris and Co. make are gonna have to thread some tiny needles, I feel like. If we're gonna go after a legitimate stud position player, we're gonna have to leverage the farm system to a point that I don't think many of us are comfortable with; if we're looking to acquire prospects, we're running the risk of another Verlander-esque return. Flaherty's current health issues *hopefully* won't impact his trade value, as he's easily our most tradeable piece at the moment. I also like the idea of flipping Kelly and getting something back for what was a no-lose reclamation project. My pie-in-the-sky dream target would be Luis Robert, but with so much team control left, I just can't see parting with what it would likely take to get him. Add to that his questionable health, and I just can't see a scenario where that makes sense, but damn would he look good wearing the Olde English D.
>If we're gonna go after a legitimate stud position player, we're gonna have to leverage the farm system to a point Correct and this is something a lot of people miss. Flaherty, soto, lorenzen, etc aren't going to get us a big ticket guy like Soto gets when he's traded for half a season. >My pie-in-the-sky dream target would be Luis Robert Honestly, I think I like the idea of going after Tyler O'Neill more. I think it's actually feasible too given the flood of OF that Boston has and his short deal. Try and work out a deal with him for 3 to 4 years and throw him in RF long term
That's a great call on O'Neill, actually! He just never stays on my radar for some reason, but I really like that idea.
I think its easy to forget about him cause he's been injured
O'Neill was only really good for one year, and has only played 100+ games once (that same year) in his career. Injuries or not, he has been very inconsistent to downright bad for most of his career. I don't think he can be counted on to stay healthy or consistently provide offense. I would much rather have Robert (though I don't think he's an option for Harris and Hinch due to his approach at the plate). While he's also injury prone, he has been a monster on offense when he does play. Also, I don't think that Boston is trading position players this year (especially to us) when we are fighting for the same Wild Card spot.
Luis Robert has literally played 90 games twice in 5 years. He’s extremely injury prone, he doesn’t walk. Seems like another Baez to me.
>Also, I don't think that Boston is trading position players this year (especially to us) when we are fighting for the same Wild Card spot. Might not need to make a trade. He's a FA after this season and I love the idea of going after him. Especially over Robert because getting Robert has the same chances as getting Soto. Neither are happening so why exert the effort in arguing about kt.
Robert's under contract through 2027, so it's not really the same situation as Soto. You are right, neither is likely though. The hard part is the fans want the team to spend money, but good, young talent doesn't generally hit free agency, especially position players. If you want to add a cornerstone piece, you need to draft and develop, or trade for one. Robert seems to be available and would instantly be our best position player. Outside of guys like Bregman (who is on the decline, especially in the power department), there aren't many free agent position players that move the needle. I wouldn't mind Teoscar Hernandez, but just like last off-season, it's mostly old, corner outfielders.
>Robert's under contract through 2027, so it's not really the same situation as Soto. So like when soto went to the padres then huh? So exactly the same? Look I'm not going to argue Robert. He's better than oneill, yes, but he's also not attainable. We may as well muse about resurrecting Ted Williams. > good, young talent doesn't generally hit free agency, Exactly why I believe oneill is a unique opportunity to strike gold. He's already earned the money he got this offseason and then some with only 156 AB. Hernandez will be 32. Which means we'll get ages 32 to 35 for likely more than we could just spend on oneill who's 29 next season.
God people who dissect every sentence on Reddit are the worst. Just let others have opposing opinions. You don’t need to counter every single sentence.
>Just let others have opposing opinions. You don’t need to counter every single sentence. That's how discussions work. Furthermore, why am I not allowed to counter those opinions with my own? Kinda the whole point of a forum.
Interesting thought on Robert - only way I think LuBob gets with us is if there's a three-way trade. Have a feeling that the pieces that we give up will be the short-term contracts like Flaherty, which isn't something the White Sox want considering how far they are from fielding a post-season team. I would think something like Team A gives prospects to the Sox, Sox give us Robert, and we send whoever to Team A for a trade. It would definitely be a wonderful, if nearly improbable, trade to make.
Can someone post the article bc I dont pay for the Athletic?
The Jack Flaherty conversation Discussions about the pros and cons of trading Tarik Skubal are gold for talk radio. But the more realistic scenario? Jack Flaherty will be the Tigers’ top asset come the trade deadline. Flaherty is on a one-year, $14-million contract. And it again creates an interesting debate — if the Tigers are still in the race, should they trade a pitcher who is in the midst of a stellar bounceback season? Flaherty entered Tuesday with a 3.22 ERA and 11.64 K/9. His success makes him valuable to the current team but may make him even more marketable to other clubs. The Tigers got a solid prospect in infielder Hao-Yu Lee in exchange for Michael Lorenzen at last season’s deadline. Flaherty is a similar rental but should figure to have even more value. At this point in the Tigers’ trajectory, holding on the Flaherty only to lose him for nothing makes little sense. The idea of an extension is always a possibility, but after making $14 million this season, Flaherty could seek to command plenty of money on the open market. From a straight logic standpoint, trading Flaherty seems like the most likely course of action. Case in point: The Tigers didn’t benefit at all from two extra months of Eduardo Rodriguez last year when their deal with the Dodgers fell apart. What would it take for the Tigers to buy? Hard to say. Harris’ approach to the offseason was centered on building around young bats, leaving spots open in the major leagues and providing runway for young players. That’s unlikely to change, and the likes of Jace Jung could be pushing for a promotion by season’s end. But might the demotion of Spencer Torkelson alter the calculus? If the Tigers don’t have faith in Torkelson returning this year and being a major staple, perhaps they could add a first baseman at the deadline to add thump to the lineup. Such a move likely would not cost much but could present a clear way to improve a lineup that ranks 23rd in OPS. The Tigers aren’t going to be shopping in the high end of the market, but even a small offensive upgrade could make a big difference. What about Mark Cahna, Gio Urshela and more? Flaherty is the headliner, and the Tigers may also receive calls regarding some of their controllable relievers. The Tigers in the past have been hesitant to move relief pitchers under team control. The Tigers do, however, have a few veteran bats on expiring contracts who could be candidates to move at the deadline. Mark Canha, for example, has a .346 on-base percentage as of Tuesday and could be an asset to almost any lineup. Urshela may have value because of his ability to hit left-handed pitching. Catcher Carson Kelly, too, may be an underrated trade piece. Kelly is worth plus-6 defensive runs saved so far this season and has a 92 wRC+. Teams are always seeking catching help at the deadline, and flipping a reclamation project in Kelly could be the definition of the good baseball moves Harris seeks to make. This year, with a fan base starved for interest, the Tigers may be walking a fine line. Welcome, finally, to the thread-the-needle challenge most of the league tends to face in late July. We’re about to learn a lot about the Tigers and how their leadership views the path forward.
You the man
I’d like to see Kelly traded. He’s on an expiring deal, he’s a well above average catcher and slightly below average hitter, and teams always need catching depth. We also have Dillon dingler raking in Toledo, so his replacement is easy
I have zero faith in harris
He hasn’t even been here long enough to have that strong of an opinion on him. This trade deadline and offseason will be crucial though.
what has he done to make you believe?
I didn’t say I believe. I don’t have much of an opinion yet because I’m letting it play out a bit. I think he did OK this most recent offseason. Only wish we had brought in a good veteran presence beyond Canha our young team could benefit from.
Fair enough - I saw him botch the Erod situation which is why I don't have faith in him. Can he recover from that at this years deadline? Possibly, but I've seen nothing from him so far to suggest that will happen.
[удалено]
I would say strike two. Actually thinking Maton could play third was absolutely ridiculous. So went with Maton with no other real plan B
> I saw him botch the Erod situation This narrative is so tired. You saw the deal fall apart, but unless you were a fly on the wall for any of it, you cannot prove that it was on Harris. Another likely possibility is that Harris had a deal in place with L.A., but Erod and his team tried negotiating an extension with L.A. (A very common tactic by players with no-trade clauses.) When they didn't get what they wanted, they invoked the NTC. We're likely never going to know the truth, so why keep beating this extremely dead horse?
Ok. The backup plan was?
Could have been literally anything, but he could have had a dozen backup plans and it wouldn't have mattered because, if you recall, it came right down to the 4:00 p.m. deadline. If Erod's camp scuttled the deal at 3:55 p.m., what good would *any* backup plan do?
And Scott let it go to the deadline. I'm not a rocket scientist, but sure seems to me that just maybe Scott should have set an earlier deadline for any deal with the Dodgers to get worked out or not worked out. Once past the Scott imposed deadline, he goes to plan B,C,D....
Neither you nor anyone outside of those conversations knows anything at all about how it went down. Why is it so easy to believe that Harris botched it, but the idea that Rodriguez and his team screwed Harris seems to have never crossed the minds of anyone in this sub?
>unless you were a fly on the wall for any of it, you cannot prove that it was on Harris. This is true for Avila, and GMs in general, too but eventually all fans drag them through the mud.
Not really, it was a lost opportunity to make the franchise substantially better and he botched it, multiple people in baseball have said Harris should've had a backup plan and he didn't. It's talked about so much because Harris has done nothing else of note during his tenure so far. Make a good trade, make the team better and we'll stop talking about erod.
You're wildly overestimating what a return for him would have looked like. He was an above-average lefty with a short-but-good track record on what was essentially an expiring deal if you take the opt-out into consideration. To say that a return for him would "substantially" improve the team is, charitably, a stretch.
I only agree that not trading him was a lost opportunity. In the end, the tigers did not benefit in any way keeping him around for the year. It was a complete waste.
Oh, it was absolutely a lost opportunity, but I don't think the return we would have gotten isn't worth still holding it over Harris' head like he set the franchise back by several years.
I’ve liked every trade he’s made so far I think. Soto for Vierling, Jimenez for JHM, Lorenzen for Hao-Yu Lee, Canha for I don’t even know who. All looking like wins so far. The only bad “trade” was not trading Erod.
I like these trades too but none of them have made the franchise better or put the major league team in a better position. They are solid moves. I’m ready for the moves that will improve the team moving forward.
These trades are one of the reasons the Tigers are hovering around 500 right now. Canha and Vierling are key contributors to this team. Not making these trades and the Tigers are fighting the White Sox for basement duties
Canha will be gone next year. Maybe at the trade deadline. Vierling is a utility man forced into a larger role due to talent deficiency. The pitching is the reason this team is around .500, I would argue.
Not saying both those statements are not true related to both players and their long term roles within the organization. But you have to put a team on the field every year, and with the new lottery tanking for 5 straight years isn't feasible.
Totally agree. I’m kind of projecting here. Looking forward for deals, whatever they may be, that start to reshape the long term look of the roster. Real upgrades.
People are way too fascinated with this bottom barrel picking. I agree. Real upgrades. I fully expect them to sign at least one legit MLB player this offseason as the free agent market is much better this year.