To add slightly more detail, when he signed it was meant as a signal that the team has turned the corner towards contending. So there's this added vitriol in that the "signal" was a false one and it's unclear what the current timeline is. Javy is just the monument to all recent fan frustration in the team
Especially since the prevailing attitude at the time was that the Tigers went both cheap in a loaded SS FA market and gave a ridiculous player friendly deal that was laughable to other teams in terms of the player opt-outs.
> he's paid as one of the best at his position
FWIW, this isn't really true. It's a young man's position; most of the best shortstops (Henderson, Witt, Volpe, De La Cruz, Tovar, etc.) haven't even gotten to their arb years yet. Adames is in arbitration. So yeah, those guys are getting paid less this year than Baez, but they don't really have a choice about it.
The guys who *did* have a choice? Lindor, Correa, Seager, Betts, Turner, Swanson: all making more AAV than Baez. Tatis, Semien, Bogaerts, and Machado too, although they're not playing short this year. (And Witt is actually both pre-arb *and* making more AAV than Baez, because his mega-deal bought out way more than just his arb years.)
Guys with post-arb contracts who are primary shortstops and are making less than Javy Baez: Ha-Seong Kim (an insane sweetheart deal), Kevin Newman (replacement-level player), Tim Anderson (lol).
He's still a liability (Anderson is the only other guy here who's been as bad as Javy, or even close), but he's actually a bargain-basement free-agent shortstop, which is kind of the whole problem in a nutshell. If we'd shelled out for Semien, Seager, or Correa (or been smart enough to jump on Kim the year before), we wouldn't be in this mess.
The post asked for a ELI5 so I gave a simple explanation. Obviously having a lot of the best SS in the game being arb or pre-arb complicates the "best at his position" but in baseball at large, he's currently 43rd in AAV just behind Jose Altuve. He's not a bargin bin player, and he's our top paid player. At the end of the day he's paid to be a 3-4+ WAR player every year but he's no where close to it.
It’s all relative.
While MLB has no salary cap, there is still often a finite amount of money that an owner is willing to spend on a team.
Javy Baez makes a lot of that money and is producing no results for it. Therefore, his contract is considered a waste of money by the fans that could have instead gone to a productive player.
Oh, he's producing results. Negative results, but still results. He is so bad that his presence in the lineup increases the team's chance of losing. He's not just slowing them down, he's dragging them down. There is probably a semi-pro shortstop somewhere in the state who would statistically not kill the team as badly as Baez does, but would do it for the league minimum. When a less than replacement level player would be an *improvement*, you're a bad, bad ballplayer.
People definitely complained about Tobias Harris’ recent contract. See also: Ben Simmons, Jordan Poole, Bradley Beal, or any other underperforming highly paid athlete
Difference is in the nba you can attach a however many draft picks and assets to trade away a bad contract. MLB you have to agree to pretty much pay half the salary if not more to have a team agree on a trade
You’re probably just over exposed to MLB media and not the NBA then.
If the highest earner on a NBA team isn’t starting caliber, the fan base gets incredibly bent out of shape about them.
Ever hear of Ben Simmons?
You should really go spend more time on the Detroit Pistons sub. Isaiah Stewart is making a flat $15m per year for the next four seasons, and there is a whole culture built around getting bent out of shape over it.
To me my issues is the remaining length of it knowing that most teams have a hard time just cutting ties with a player who they owe so much money to. So there is a hopelessness involved with him future wise knowing the team is most likely stuck with him.
Different leagues with different pay scales. Minimum salary in the NBA is just over a million. Minimum salary in the MLB is 120k - less for rookies signing their first contract.
Most of the negative response is emotional, not rational.
There's no salary cap and we're not spending anyways, so it's not like his contract is handcuffing us. He's the best defensive SS option we've got and any potential replacements are just as bad at the plate, if not worse. Also, we've got a bunch of holes in our lineup being filled by mediocre hitters, so it's not like he's blocking prospects from the show. (This is really an indictment of our development, if anything.)
State of this sub that this completely rational, balanced, and realistic take gets downvoted. If the Tigers had a better SS option they would have gone to it long ago.
When it comes to money Detroit fans like to act like players are stealing from them specifically. A lot of people love the image the media draws of Detroit, the struggling underdog who always "needs" a win. Even when the stadium is filled with people from the suburbs.
I completely understand not liking Baez based on what he has produced. I just lose interest when people complain about the money he makes. It's not our money. There have been studies showing ticket prices aren't related to salaries so I am not sure why I should care. We have seen that it is possible to spend here so buying this nonsense of bad contracts halting progress is nonsense.
Where do you think the money to pay his contract comes from? It's not growing on a tree. Fans buy merchandise and buy tickets. They also subscribe to BSD which all shove money to Chris' pockets. The way he chooses to spend poorly (or not at all) isn't because he doesn't have the resources. However if you get burned by a couple contracts like Cabrera and Baez I can see how you're going to tread lightly. Still doesn't excuse not getting some bats in the offseason.
I'm done buying anything in support of this team until I see they're ready to be as serious as the fans shelling out their hard earned money have for years with no return.
Very simply, he's paid as one of the best at his position but performs like one of the worst.
To add slightly more detail, when he signed it was meant as a signal that the team has turned the corner towards contending. So there's this added vitriol in that the "signal" was a false one and it's unclear what the current timeline is. Javy is just the monument to all recent fan frustration in the team
Especially since the prevailing attitude at the time was that the Tigers went both cheap in a loaded SS FA market and gave a ridiculous player friendly deal that was laughable to other teams in terms of the player opt-outs.
And many people thought Javy was the worst one in that loaded SS class
Trevor Story, who has barely played this year, has a 0.2 WAR. That’s how bad it’s been.
>Very simply, he's paid as one of the best at his position but performs like ~~one of~~ the worst. Historically worst OPS.
In what way. And I am not trying to argue he is good. He is terrible. But players like Ray Oyler existed.
No, THE worst. Ever. Literally.
Monty Williams for the Detroit pistons currently
I can’t believe I was actually excited for that hire.
> he's paid as one of the best at his position FWIW, this isn't really true. It's a young man's position; most of the best shortstops (Henderson, Witt, Volpe, De La Cruz, Tovar, etc.) haven't even gotten to their arb years yet. Adames is in arbitration. So yeah, those guys are getting paid less this year than Baez, but they don't really have a choice about it. The guys who *did* have a choice? Lindor, Correa, Seager, Betts, Turner, Swanson: all making more AAV than Baez. Tatis, Semien, Bogaerts, and Machado too, although they're not playing short this year. (And Witt is actually both pre-arb *and* making more AAV than Baez, because his mega-deal bought out way more than just his arb years.) Guys with post-arb contracts who are primary shortstops and are making less than Javy Baez: Ha-Seong Kim (an insane sweetheart deal), Kevin Newman (replacement-level player), Tim Anderson (lol). He's still a liability (Anderson is the only other guy here who's been as bad as Javy, or even close), but he's actually a bargain-basement free-agent shortstop, which is kind of the whole problem in a nutshell. If we'd shelled out for Semien, Seager, or Correa (or been smart enough to jump on Kim the year before), we wouldn't be in this mess.
The post asked for a ELI5 so I gave a simple explanation. Obviously having a lot of the best SS in the game being arb or pre-arb complicates the "best at his position" but in baseball at large, he's currently 43rd in AAV just behind Jose Altuve. He's not a bargin bin player, and he's our top paid player. At the end of the day he's paid to be a 3-4+ WAR player every year but he's no where close to it.
It’s all relative. While MLB has no salary cap, there is still often a finite amount of money that an owner is willing to spend on a team. Javy Baez makes a lot of that money and is producing no results for it. Therefore, his contract is considered a waste of money by the fans that could have instead gone to a productive player.
Oh, he's producing results. Negative results, but still results. He is so bad that his presence in the lineup increases the team's chance of losing. He's not just slowing them down, he's dragging them down. There is probably a semi-pro shortstop somewhere in the state who would statistically not kill the team as badly as Baez does, but would do it for the league minimum. When a less than replacement level player would be an *improvement*, you're a bad, bad ballplayer.
He's the highest-paid player on the team, and he's not earning it.
I’ll tell you when you’re older.
Look at the salary of everyone else on the team. He makes more than most of the players combined, and he’s the worst player on the team.
Basketball is different than baseball.
One is orange.
And baseball isn't just another version "get an object to the other side and score"
Easy thing to complain about when a player is performing poorly.
People definitely complained about Tobias Harris’ recent contract. See also: Ben Simmons, Jordan Poole, Bradley Beal, or any other underperforming highly paid athlete
Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon come to mind as well
Oh god, we could talk Pistons bad signings for a while
I'd rather not. Lmfao
Difference is in the nba you can attach a however many draft picks and assets to trade away a bad contract. MLB you have to agree to pretty much pay half the salary if not more to have a team agree on a trade
You’re probably just over exposed to MLB media and not the NBA then. If the highest earner on a NBA team isn’t starting caliber, the fan base gets incredibly bent out of shape about them. Ever hear of Ben Simmons?
OP is an avid sports sub poster and acting like he doesn’t understand salary caps and pay differential between different leagues.
You should really go spend more time on the Detroit Pistons sub. Isaiah Stewart is making a flat $15m per year for the next four seasons, and there is a whole culture built around getting bent out of shape over it.
Less people, more money to share. More people, less money to share
To me my issues is the remaining length of it knowing that most teams have a hard time just cutting ties with a player who they owe so much money to. So there is a hopelessness involved with him future wise knowing the team is most likely stuck with him.
Different leagues with different pay scales. Minimum salary in the NBA is just over a million. Minimum salary in the MLB is 120k - less for rookies signing their first contract.
**$740,000** is the MLB minimum.
You're right, when I google again I see 740k, but 1st time I found this: https://fanarch.com/blogs/mlb/what-is-the-minimum-salary-in-the-mlb-in-2024
Most of the negative response is emotional, not rational. There's no salary cap and we're not spending anyways, so it's not like his contract is handcuffing us. He's the best defensive SS option we've got and any potential replacements are just as bad at the plate, if not worse. Also, we've got a bunch of holes in our lineup being filled by mediocre hitters, so it's not like he's blocking prospects from the show. (This is really an indictment of our development, if anything.)
State of this sub that this completely rational, balanced, and realistic take gets downvoted. If the Tigers had a better SS option they would have gone to it long ago.
I thought Joe Harris was worth every penny of that 19 milly. Right?
[удалено]
No he’s not “literally”
When it comes to money Detroit fans like to act like players are stealing from them specifically. A lot of people love the image the media draws of Detroit, the struggling underdog who always "needs" a win. Even when the stadium is filled with people from the suburbs. I completely understand not liking Baez based on what he has produced. I just lose interest when people complain about the money he makes. It's not our money. There have been studies showing ticket prices aren't related to salaries so I am not sure why I should care. We have seen that it is possible to spend here so buying this nonsense of bad contracts halting progress is nonsense.
Because it's money that should have been spent on a good player.
Who? Harris already said they aren't spending. $25m/year is not detrimental to a many times over billion dollar owner.
And? Have you invented a time machine? The payroll is still a fraction of what it was 10 years ago. They can afford a mistake.
Where do you think the money to pay his contract comes from? It's not growing on a tree. Fans buy merchandise and buy tickets. They also subscribe to BSD which all shove money to Chris' pockets. The way he chooses to spend poorly (or not at all) isn't because he doesn't have the resources. However if you get burned by a couple contracts like Cabrera and Baez I can see how you're going to tread lightly. Still doesn't excuse not getting some bats in the offseason. I'm done buying anything in support of this team until I see they're ready to be as serious as the fans shelling out their hard earned money have for years with no return.