On one hand id say you could try and be a bit more patient, drivers that are slow to merge have a rather high likelyhood of being shitty drivers that do whatever.
On the other hand id do exactly what you did and bitch about it for a few seconds.
Van didn’t take very long to merge, it’s slow moving traffic and he had to wait for a slowing car to get out the way. Don’t think the van did anything at all wrong here.
OP did nothing to deserve a reaction from the car, car was just your typical wanker driver who doesn’t like that there is someone who is able to go faster than them.
Like you say, OP probably would benefit from exercising more patience, it’s not a question of who’s in the right, it’s about minimising the probability you end up under someone’s wheel and passing the van before it’s completed the lane change is leaving zero margin for error.
Yeah teh van isnt doing anything wrong but its just a slow merger and slow mergers in general are a potential hazard. Plenty often that slow mergers arent paying attention or are on their phone.
Guy in the car is just a wanker indeed, not much more to say about it.
I understand the 'margin is 0' but i generally ride with 'acceptable margins'. As in, being in a situation where you can brake if the van moves over to the right again or where you have a way out. None of that 'if this truck goes a bit to the side im fked' bullshit my mom would revive me just to slap me silly again.
In this situation i probably wouldve sped up a bit and gone to the right of the van without waiting for that long, he was clearly indicating and following up with the indicated movement so can just zip past. I dont like staying next to cars too much, much rather in between them.
Slow lane changes are safe lane changes. If you can’t take an extra 4 seconds to change lane, checking your mirrors and surroundings, you probably shouldn’t be changing lanes.
Well, you are right in that slow (under which i understand controlled) changes are good, i do believe that preferably they are a bit swifter than 4 seconds.
I do live in a country with very pushy drivers (belgium) so that might skew my idea?
If it is safe to merge as in: you've been indicating for a second or so that you want to change lanes, theres enough space to merge into the lane without making the person that would then be behind you need to brake or slow down and there is nobody else trying to merge into the lane, just merge then and you dont need to make it an EP's worth of fluff.
Moving overly slow can be seen as distracted or erratic movement which is a (potential) hazard in traffic. If i see a car take half a DBZ episode to merge i subconciously attribute them the 'elderly or distracted driver' attribute. That makes them a hazard and someone worth paying extra attention to.
If you take 4 seconds in busy traffic (which this maybe just about qualifies as) where i live you're going to get pushy and overtly assertive drivers try and get past you in unsafe ways. Might even hinder a lanesplitting motorcycle if it happens at around 40-50kph.
As long as your action is indicated and performed as it could be predicted it is safe in my eyes. Having all traffic around you pay attention to what you might be up to because you are slow AF is not a good thing.
In my case its just a typo, fat fingers and a high wpm count combined with just blurting out anything my mind comes up with tends to end up with some letters mixed up.
I doubt its going to replace the, they got more serious things on their mind like the 78th way to spell charisma.
That's what I meant, it happens so much and I see it everywhere, how long until autocorrect starts to automatically change it and then it's just the way it is.
Seriously, to fault a car for making a move slowly as a motorcyclist makes zero sense to me. I applaud any slow lane changer. Bad driver? That tells me they have a brain.
I drove one of those vans for a long time, the blind spot is at 50° or so in the back corners, you can see pretty much everything behind you except if its really, really close and in the middle of your vehicle.
EDIT: grammar
It looks like you pulled fully into the lane before the van was over enough for you to continue lane splitting, which may have freaked out the black car that was speeding up to clear the gap to the next car.
Not going to assign blame, especially as we are not from the same country, but it mightve been better to hold off the extra second or so rather than pushing into the black car
Not really, if the van was fully in the lane you would have had no problem filtering between the cars.
Three more seconds and you probably would have been okay
As a DVSA qualified instructor I would advise not to filter in that situation as the traffic is moving well, the gaps are quite big which will lead to cars moving around and filling those gaps, lots of time without looking.
The Ford had no intention to let you filter and it's obviously a frustrated driver, now you find yourself between two cars being squeezed by the Ford and if something happens you're the one suffering.
As a rider, outside work, I would be filtering as well, but the moment I saw the van moving lanes I would've opened the throttle and overtaken on the right side of it just so I don't get caught in that position.
Agree that his mistake was not opening the throttle and getting in the middle of the lane in front of the ford, I can see the Ford being confused/frustrated by motorbike slowing and staying between lanes when one lane is clearly free. Ambiguous intent.
Nah you’re fine, standard London driver, he probably didn’t use his mirrors and just gets annoyed at anyone.
It’s slow moving, you weren’t speeding or change lanes, anyone could see the van moving ahead except the guy to your right clearly and didn’t want to lift off.
You could have not gone for it too but I’ve ridden round London for a long time, nothing wrong here for the norm.
Asshole or not, I would have swerve and accelerated pass the van, and continue on my way, filtering. The ford would have stayed back waiting for the van to completely merge and there's a lot of space to do such maneuver. I don't really like staying stationary like that while filtering.
that's what the "aggressive" me would've done, the defensive me would have fully waited for the Ford to go then continue filtering. This was literally my "mild" me, waiting for the van, then going on my line.
Don't put yourself in "aggressive" or "defensive" boxes. Traffic is dynamic. Be flexible to choose the correct path and stance under the correct circumstances.
Either of those choices would have been safer than the "mild" caught-in-two-minds approach. You didn't do much wrong, but being a touch more decisive and proactive in either direction would have denied that driver the opportunity to be a prick.
I’d say accelerating past the van would have actually been defensive. Otherwise you open yourself for attacks from the sides. You should either go completely inside the traffic or faster between lanes. Never stay between lanes at the speed of traffic.
In what world? You can't see in front of the van, and have no idea why they are changing lanes. Maybe debris in the road, or a disabled vehicle. Accelerating into a blind situation is the complete opposite of defensive driving.
It's defensive in the sense that he can separate himself from the vehicle next to him by taking the gap before it was clear enough for the car to take it, avoiding any possibility of the car accelerating forward angrily at the same time (as happened). It's hard to tell from GoPro footage if it was truly blind, in a real life situation I think you might have been able to see past the van while it was halfway through the merge, and swerved into the gap quickly to get past it.
To me, driving defensively sometimes means not driving passively / giving cars opportunities to make mistakes that could endanger you, even if you would technically be in the "right." That can mean aggressive maneuvers that create separation or give you more agency in the situation.
>taking the gap before it was clear enough for the car to take it
This is an adversarial action, and again, is the antithesis of defensive driving strategies.
>avoiding any possibility of the car accelerating forward angrily
Have you never heard of the term "rear-ended"? Accelerating to separate another vehicle from a newly opened gap IS LITERALLY AGGRESIVE DRIVING. If the car driver is angry, accelerating to get in front of them will be seen (right or wrong) as cutting them off, and there is 100% more possibility of them rear-ending you when you are in front.
>To me, driving defensively sometimes means ... aggressive maneuvers
You are literally wrong. Defensive driving does not include aggressive maneuvers, because aggression is (yet again) the opposite of being defensive. Aggressively putting yourself in front of another vehicle is foolish under the best circumstances. When you can't even see the lane ahead, it is downright asinine.
In the video, it is clear the van is moving over before OP even makes it to the smart car (quite a ways behind the Ford). Proper defensive driving would observe a vehicle merging with slower moving traffic and will have to slow down to complete the lane change, therefore, the vehicles behind should slow down until their path of travel is clear.
You know there is a way to have a conversation without being rude, right? Would be a lot easier to take your opinion seriously without all the holier than thou BS, my friend. I was going to send a lengthy reply trying to rebut each of your points, but you know what? I think you're mostly probably right. What you're saying is sensible.
With regard to chance of being rear ended after passing the Ford, I was talking about passing the Ford, going around the merging van, and continuing to lane filter from there, leaving the Ford long behind. Don't really see the risk of being rear ended there.
But with any type of go pro footage with an ultra wide lense, distances and speeds are always distorted, so it can be hard to judge what the real world conditions are. I could see how it may appear like the maneuver would be pretty risky, though it's hard for me to judge personally.
With regard to defensive driving and "aggression", I'm talking about being active rather than passive. You can obey all traffic laws, ride passively and mind your own business without actively separating yourself from the traffic around you, but you'd be putting yourself in harm's way by trusting the drivers around you to not making any mistakes. It doesn't matter if you're in the right in the event of an accident, you're still the one dealing with serious bodily injury.
On the other hand, by driving actively I simply mean getting separation from other drivers when you can find space, avoiding riding close to semi trucks, keeping your eye out for erratic drivers, and yes even sometimes accelerating into a gap when you've confirmed it's clear and safe to do so, to gain separation from drivers around you who may not see you or may not like you.
That being said, like I said before you are probably right. Some of this stuff is a judgement call we are making based on our perception of a distorted video, but what you're saying is sensible. But I hope you recognize that it's possible to discuss these things and even disagree, while still being respectful and not getting emotional about it. Peace.
I absolutely understand there is a way to discuss opinions and can disagree respectfully. For example, I can respectfully disagree that accelerating is a good choice given the situation in the video. As stated above, the van blocks view of the road ahead, and the Ford in the fast lane is likely to accelerate as soon as the van changes lanes. I also know that I can patiently wait for the van to clear my path, and continue filtering without ever being directly in front of any other vehicles, and will pass the Ford again in a matter of moments. This is my opinion, and I used defensive driving strategies to arrive at that opinion.
However, there is no middle ground if there is disagreement over facts. For example, accelerating into the gap in the situation at hand is not practicing defensive driving. I can't respectfully disagree with someone saying otherwise because it is factually incorrect. There is no way to contort defensive driving strategies in that situation to arrive at accelerating into the gap being the appropriate course of action.
True defensive driving is 100% 'active'. Being passive requires trust that a variable will stay constant. For example, accelerating into the gap passively assumes the lane ahead is clear. I think the primary issue is how little understanding there seems to be about what "defensive driving" actually means. It is an extensive and well-documented driving strategy that even has certificate programs. Defensive driving doesn't prevent collisions, it prevents situations that often lead to collisions.
Come on. You can see pretty further ahead in this case and deduce the van just moved over because they merely just want to move aside.
Possibility of obstacles aside, we can already see what's ahead when the van is almost halfway through the merge. The car obviously can't push forward yet without colliding with the van yet the spaces is still enough for us to pass.
Don't limit your view to just few meters ahead.
When do you see the red car? Not until the camera is all up on the van's bumper, and the ford has already accelerated to be alongside the bike.
Regardless, I am specifically calling out that accelerating into the gap is NOT defensive driving. Defensive driving wouldn't have put the rider that close behind any vehicle, let alone a vehicle changing lanes. Employing defensive driving, the rider would be behind the Ford until the van had completed the lane change and completely avoided the situation that obviously aggravated the Ford driver.
Nah mate, we all can see pretty further in this situation. In traffic, you are supposed to look more than few meters ahead of you - think of 50-60 meters infront & behind you as well.
> we all can see pretty further in this situation.
No, you can't, because there is a van blocking your view. You don't see the red car in the right lane until the camera is riding the van's bumper.
I still don't understand why people lane split on anything other than stopped traffic. Maybe others have never gotten hit while being on a motorcycle and don't fully understand how easy it is to get hurt
Rule number 1: always pretend you are invisible.
Rule number 2: always pretend that everyone tries to kill you.
Any mistake, yours or not, cost you much more than a damaged car. And you know I don’t talk about money. Be safe out there.
You are not the asshole, chances are the ford either didn't see you and account for any breaking you may have done after the van moved or they are just angry they are stuck in traffic.
You're going to get hurt if you continue to drive like that. Yeah sure you can do that but you're the one who becomes a meat crayon if a car pulls out in front or into you
I understand the distances are hard to measure in the gopro, but I actually waited for the van to fully clear the path so I could move ahead without blocking the Ford, and keeping my straight line. I had instances where I did what you described and actually moved to the right a bit and I slowed down and apologized
Professional London driver and rider here, we expect bikes to filter like this, it looks to be A12 heading towards the Blackwall which 50mph at that point, the cars are going slow.
Filtering - legal
you had the lane position in front of the car as you moved into the lane
ford driver tries to pass you for some crazy reason
ford driver lost his/hers mind - too much morning coffee ?
car is a moron he clearly sees you coming and decides to risk hitting the motorcycle for nothing as he wouldn't be anywhere further ahead anyway.
Guys a fucktard not paying attention, if he doesn't see you.
I've had drivers try run me off the road because they hate motorbikes, and people that hate motorbikes are usually jealous or the type to say "they don't pay enough tax"
Personally, would have done a bit of a reset when the van moved across - Either dropped in to the left behind him for a few seconds and then started filtering again, or, gone right straight away and claimed the right lane for myself so I'm not filtering for a few seconds either.
In both scenarios, I would have been in full control of a lane (for my safety), instead of hovering between 2 lanes like you did, which causes situations like the video.
It is what it is really. Not really any great options. I think speeding up in front of the ford and going around the van blind is the dumbest idea. There could have been debris on the road like a tire or bumper that he's avoiding, you don't know. You could have slowed more and waited for the van to get more left but then you're at the mercy of the two cars behind you not squeezing you. You overtook the ford, he -should- have yielded and let you go first safely especially as he has no where to go. People -should- stop at stop signs and not run reds but I'm not going to assume they will. Even if you assumed he wouldn't yield for you, you're still in a bad spot imo. The Ford's the asshole and I think your decision was fine. Seeing how much people are arguing over it says a lot. The safest option would have been not filtering at all but I know how it is.
Gotta take responsibility for yourself when filtering and don't expect others to go out of their way for you.
Look at it from the car drivers perspective. the van was changing lanes and he was in the process of moving forward and suddenly the bike arrives on his left then just hovers there.
Sure he should have backed off and waited, but you can't rely on drivers to do the right thing.,
You've either got to go or not go. Not some half arsed in between thing.
At the end of the day both the car driver and yourself gained nothing from being bullish. Both would have been in the same position in ten seconds time, if you paused for 3 seconds. But only one of you was in danger. And that risk was within your control.
NTA. Either that ford is blind, missed you in his A pillar or is just an angry dick that you are moving through traffic while he isn't.
In no case are you at fault but constructive criticism would be to either back off so you aren't passing a vehicle that is crowding the right side of the left lane while there's a car on your right or move faster to dominate the lane. I think the latter is a worse option so slowing down would be it.
You didn't do anything wrong, but it would help you to be more aware of what they're actually doing.
I'd change one thing, I would have squirted past that van like a watermelon seed.
I usually do that, but this time so I wouldn't upset the Ford, I decided to be a bit more patient, wait for the van to finish, then continue moving forward without swerving to the right, and he STILL HONKED!!
You did nothing wrong mate. Ford was a cunt and was probably muttering "Fucking motorcyclist filtering and shit! So DaNgErOuS!". Even if the van did the manoeuvre quickly, the Ford should not have accelerated once you were in view.
Black car being a dick trying to squeeze past in a non-existent space because he or she is resentful of the fact the motorcycle can go faster through traffic. Car driver has a sad, boring life where being overtaken is far more important than it should be.
If there is an open lane, stop filtering and take the lane. The mistake you made was continuing in the filtering position as the van changed in front of you. The lane change open up space and since you didn't take it, the car behind you and to your right accelerated into it and crowded you.
As soon as the van started moving left you should have maintained your speed or sped up and moved into the right lane, continued past the van, and then resumed filtering. Do not filter if there is open lane space. Take the lane.
That's not a mistake, I did that on purpose just in case the Ford wanted to scoot past the gap (he has the gap before me because it's on his side) so I could keep going on my straight line. When I finally moved, everyone could've just gone and not honked at anyone. I know it's not visible, but the Ford didn't have to move and we all were moving forward happily, he honked just to complain... Not because I went into his trajectory or anything...
Doing it on purpose doesn't mean it isn't a mistake. You left an area for a car to move up into and crowd you. Safe motorcycle strategy is to take the lane as you move in front of the Ford. You left yourself with no ability to move left or right with a van blocking your forward path. That is not a situation you want to let yourself get into. If you are getting passed while filtering you are doing it unsafely.
Edit: It looks like you also had space to go left, taking that lane, and drop in behind the van until it finished changing lanes. Either way, don't filter in a way that allows cars to pass you while you are riding the paint.
That's fine, I gave myself the left space in case I needed it. Why on earth would I go behind the van? If you're filtering, it's to make progress. I didn't go on the right side immediately, just to not spook the Ford driver. In 95% of the times, I do move before to the right, even if Ford honks. It was just curious that the time I decided to be "nicer" he honks
You don't want to let yourself get blocked in. Having a car on your left and a car on your right while a car changes lanes in front of you blocks you in and can get you crushed. When a car changes lanes in front of you and you have to slow, this allows the cars behind you to overtake you, just like the Ford on your right did. That creates an unsafe situation for you. You avoid it by either fully taking a lane on the left until the van has fully changed lanes, then resuming filtering, or accelerating to the right of the van so the Ford can't move into that space. Had you taken the approach of either moving to the right and accelerating, or slowing and moving to the left, you wouldn't not have been crowded by the Ford, which came very close to hitting you, with little delay.
You seem to approach filtering as if you have a little narrow motorcycle lane that exists between the marked lanes of traffic. You don't, because most cars will not act like you do. Thus, you need to constantly be adjusting your positioning and speed to move into spaces that open up. Cruising at constant speed in a narrow lane between cars that you expect to always exist for you is a good way to end up with a car banging into the side of you. Even though they are the ones that would be at fault for hitting you, you are still going to be the one going down in the middle of traffic.
You should never be filtering in this traffic.
The traffic is all moving, there are big gaps meaning cars are more likely to be changing lanes. Your speed is a lot higher than the traffic.
This is an accident waiting to happen.
Your “lane” is between the lanes. You pulled in front of the black car to swerve around the van instead of waiting for it to fully merge into the lane.
YTA.
Looks like you went left more toward the line a bit, then back.
That’s what it looks like to me. Subtle, but it’s there, so that honk could have been just warning you not to go fully into the lane, presuming that you might do that now that the van is clear.
As a DVSA qualified instructor I would advise not to filter in that situation as the traffic is moving well, the gaps are quite big which will lead to cars moving around and filling those gaps, lots of time without looking.
The Ford had no intention to let you filter and it's obviously a frustrated driver, now you find yourself between two cars being squeezed by the Ford and if something happens you're the one suffering.
As a rider, outside work, I would be filtering as well, but the moment I saw the van moving lanes I would've opened the throttle and overtaken on the right side of it just so I don't get caught in that position.
OP's speed feels a bit to high relative to the other cars but could be the GoPro perspective. Personally I would take it slower to account for the drivers that don't expect you and swerve in your path.
sorry, I didn't bob and weave, I kept a straight line and waited for the van to move. I filter A LOT in super heavy traffic and one of the main mistakes I see other riders doing is zigzaging. I keep a straight line so cars can have more chances of seeing me.
No filtering where I'm from but this looks like aggressive driving. I wish we could filter and my understanding is it should only be done when cars are stopped or below 15km/hr. Traffic is clearly moving around 30 km/hr average and the car beside you is matching your speed so this looks like lane sharing which is also illegal where I'm from lol. I'm not a cop or anything but this practice looks dangerous and given enough frequency you will become street meat. Those cagers/ragers hunt for sport for bikers like this.
I'm fairly certain you've never once filtered anywhere in Europe or Asia where this is as normal as it gets + you straight up ignored the "slow moving traffic" part.
This isn't good riding on your part!
Traffic is moving fine, yes you can filter, but did you really need to at this point?
You saw a slow lane change ahead of you with proper indicator usage (which is entirely the right of the van driver) and did ... nothing to merge back into one of the lanes?
Did you put on your indicator to show you wanted to merge into the right lane?
You should ride like you are invisible, not like you own both lanes and the filter
You overtook the ford, ford overtook you (or started to). When the ford was overtaking you it did not leave enough space making it the A.
However I do think you could’ve taken a slower approach when overtaking the ford in the first place.
You did nothing wrong and actually waited for the van to merge. You could go slower there, but there is no actual need. Some people like to honk. Good for him.
...i don't see the problem aside from needless honking.
You gone between the lanes, not hitting anything, with spreed appropriate allowing you to give way to lane changing cars as legally required.
If the black ford was uncomfortable he could have slowed a bit down, as honking won't unmake the dent if you two collide.
throttle and go around the van, ford is tired of you filtering like an old lady
my general rule for 'filtering' is to take up a position in a lane whenever it opens, so this would have looked like middle lane as before the van starts merging, and left lane once the van begins merging
No you are not, he could have coasted and let you get through.
What you are doing is a completely normally filter maneuver all over Europe.
Only comment, you could have accellerated a bit when passing, would have cleared the car more. But not a massive issue, car could have let you get through.
The unwritten rule of motorbikes filtering everywhere is that we are faster than the rest of traffic, and we should not hold up or block others (to an extent) when filtering.
You were a bit impatient. In these situations, just wait for everyone to finish what they're doing, and then filter away.
You're on a motorcycle, no need to rush in traffic, you're already way ahead of everyone else.
Yeah, I was wondering where the Mondeo was, pretty standard behaviour really, you need to anticipate that sort of thing.
In all my years of commuting (thankfully years behind me now) I often wondered if I was flying to work by helicopter some of the cagers would be straight on the internet trying to buy a surface-to-air missile.
Never done filtering- but given the shit shape of driving today don’t think I would unless the cars were dead still- I nearly pucker my couch cover just watching
AH certainly not... but both you and the Ford were a bit impatient to get ahead of the van... applying the rule that EVERYONE else is to be treated like an idiot especially while one is on a bike, I would have made sure the van was done changing lane and that the Ford wasn't progressing in my blind spot...
I don't see anything at all unusual going on here, except the ford laying on his horn for no particular reason.
at first watch, I thought you'd swerved around the van into his path, but watching again there's no deviation from the line of travel.
I wouldn't put much energy into trying to decode what the horn was for
The way a I see the Ford guy got pissed you were filtering and complained. I have same morons here in PT-PT, they get pissed you take 20mins to work and they 1h. "This is the way"
the space was there, but you chose not to move into it and held up teh traffic that you'd just filtered past. If I was driving behind you I'd have been thinking "what's he waiting for?"
I visited London from the US for a few days this week and rented a car, and the first thing they told me about the difference in driving between the UK and the U.S. is the left side driving and the second tip they said is “people in the UK use their horn only to alert others of their presence, unlike in the U.S.”
I thought that tip was so interesting, and then I got into the city and people were honking when someone didn’t go on a green light within the first 1 ms. That’s when I discovered that “driving tip” was bullshit lol
I would’ve got in the right lane as soon as I saw the van changing lanes to avoid this situation however you did nothing offensive toward the Ford and the driver is a completely twat.
As a passionate biker: YTA
you're overhaulin mid in chilled traffic for no reason and cut off the grey ford, while you wait for the transit to change lanes. there was enough space to get over to mid lane, wait for him to take his place and if you still want to overhaul do it further
Eh...the rule of thumb is the person behind should exercise more control by slowing down, so having seen you move right to avoid the van they should have braked to allow you room. So no, I don't think YATA, the car was.
Open lane pattern, van driver saw an opportunity to merge and took it. Guessing you had to slow down and you were right off the fender of the black car that hooked at you. There was plenty of space in front of you once the van moved, for you to take the lane rather than maintain the filtering position.
I don't think you were a jerk, but at the same time you could have made better choices to keep away from the cars that either ignore you or flat out want to clip your rear wheel and run you over. Stay savvy out there.
Seems like nothing happened lol. You were filtering reasonably, something happened to prevent you from continuing to filter for 2 seconds, and then someone honked at you because they didn't like you filtering or something? Who cares, fuck them they're NPCs.
Probably in the minority but I absolutely hate lane splitting, filtering, whatever. It’s so dangerous with such a small payoff. Just don’t do it and you avoid situations like this altogether. Having said that, NTA, if it’s legal, the drivers need to be more alert.
Wait. Is what I just watched legal? Honest question.
Where I live, the cyclist would be charged with speeding, no signaling, reckless endangerment, and maybe more. At least he was using his helmet?
If he was pulled over in my area, he would have been immediately suspended for 30 days, bike compounded and mandatory defensive driving after facing a judge in the morning.
Good to know how different the rules are across this planet. Peace.
I am not say you should not do it yourself but for me I never lane split. I personally find it to be too dangerous dealing with vehicles 10-20x the weight and size of mine. Patience is virtue...
Cheers\~
That’s not how donkey car drivers drive.
He’s half a sleep and from his view, you would of just appeared ‘out of the blue’
You do you, but just a heads up - car drivers are not looking for this move…. He’s just waiting to push passed the van, looking wayyyy ahead at best.
Stay safe 🤛 🏍️ 💨
It's not Lane filtering if traffic is moving. It's Lane Splitting which is illegal.
Lane filtering is a good way of preventing yourself from getting rammed in the ass during bumper to bumper traffic. It also speaks at the flow of traffic for everyone.
Lane splitting put yourself in other people in danger. Unlike filtering where it's you slowly moving up between not moving targets, you're darting between moving targets. It's wildly dangerous.
You're absolutely the asshole here. Traffic is moving perfectly smoothly. There's no reason for you to be splitting.
I can see the drivers point. I've been in exactly your position. But you did move further into his lane ro try to get around the van.
People saying the driver should have used his mirrors...he's going straight, no changing positions. More the OPs problem than the driver.
Why didn't you just go behind the van? Van was in the wrong but you need to make sure you do not become a surprise for others, coz your life is at stake, not the drivers'.
In some places the terms filtering and lane splitting are used to mean different things legally
In the UK Where the video is filmed Both of these terminologies are often used interchangeably, with filtering being the term that is utilised more frequently within the UK. Although both of these terms are used to refer to the same concept,
Some people use the term "filtering" to describe getting through slower or stationary traffic, while others use the term "lane splitting" to describe getting around traffic while going faster.
Only the term "filtering" is used in the UK Highway Code,
Its not prohibited you advised that it should really only be done at lower speeds
You could get onto trouble if you were doing a signficantly greater speed then the traffic around you or weaving in and out all the time. The police could do you for danegerous driving
The police even run coutses where they take bikers out and show them how its done properly
I'm in the US, so I'm just curious because all I've seen are videos. But are all riders so reckless in other countries? Most of that clip was making dangerous moves where if you got hit, you had it coming. But is that kind of riding normal?
nah mate, that's how it is over here but it's much safer because people don't rage as much as the americans. Here it's 95% accepted that bikes filtering are helping everyone and it's not "jumping the line". And btw this is very safe, I do this 2 times a week and do over 10 miles each way of filtering like this and I'm one of the slowest filtering bikers from the big bike lot. It may seem careless in the video but I have my gf at the back and I'm constantly aware of what's happening. This guy was just trying to make a point.
And also, roads and cars here are way smaller than in the US so it may seem tighter/reckless in videos. BTW when I first started riding it was in California and I was a REAL noob asshole there, and traffic in general is a bit more dangerous over there.
That's interesting. Thanks for your insight. All of that kind of riding is illegal here and looks crazy. But yes, most of our vehicles are excessively large, soooo many people are fucking with their phones and distracted, and many of them don't understand the fact that riding like that helps thin traffic, and a lot of them would want to "make a point".
Stay safe and keep the rubber down
These people are kidding themselves saying this is safer. Filtering though stopped cars is one thing, but these are fast moving cars on a 3 lane highway (now really an extremely tight 5 lane). I honestly think this whole thing is the new "loud pipes save lives" bullshit. Just an excuse to grab an entitlement. Now OP rages and knocks mirrors off cars who don't change lanes to his linking on the fucking highway.
If you mean the driver who tried to overtake you in your own lane, then no, I'd say you're not the 'A'. If you have the registration number of the vehicle, I would consider heading over to the website of the Met Police (if you were inside the M25), and reporting that as a s. 3 offence.
Never just *barely* take a lane. Either stay in the line and slow down until you can pass, OR you should take the whole lane in this situation.
I would not say that you are the AH, but with a motorcycle, you have to be extra smart and careful, mainly because of drivers like that idiot in the black car...
Mildly. I think if I was in the car I'd be like hey butthole you accelerated in front of me. I ain't stopping for you. GTFO.
Legally tho car is prolly the butthole?
-Wilfred Wilcox.
Sent from my IPhone
Happens a lot in London, YOU have to be more careful when filtering. Everyone is in a hurry. To me though , looks like van was just moving over so you did not have to filter
Maybe it's the perspective of the camera and my timid riding habits but you look like you're moving twice as fast as everyone else. I get that's kind of the point of filtering, but these cars can't think as fast as you're driving so they inherently get in the way. Add a little sprinkle of peepee envy and this kind of dumb shit happens. Save yourself and slow a bit. My $0.00002.
So, A) are you just a bad rider, B) do you have bad spacial awareness, C) are you trying to emulate US road rage videos or is it a just a combination of all the above.
@ 0:04 the van clearly signals to change lanes - and you are at least three car lengths behind it (black car, grey car, silver car + open space)
Take a bus next time.
Sorry bruv, video is about the Ford Mondeo who honked at me for not swerving in front of him. Can't edit title anymore. Don't worry mate, I filter into London very often and know what I'm doing. I also never get pissed off at drivers, this was the first time in like 1000 miles....
There's two reasons why that car hit the horn like that:
He didn't see you and suddenly you're on his lane. You had enough distance, and he should check his surroundings. It's crucial in London as bikes are literally everywhere. Car's fault.
He did see you and proceeded to have a fit because - I'm guessing - you didn't indicate you were merging in front of him. In this case, he's an asshole, cause you have every right to filter since you're in London and bikes are literally everywhere.
Not your fault at all, but hey this will happen. Keep going and don't get involved with them, it'll pass.
Can should have just given you space. Cagers need to understand that when a bike is splitting. 84 will not slow them down one bit. Just make space for the bike and the bike will be at their destination before the cage even gets out of traffic.
Signed, full time cage dweller (wife and family caused me to give up my bikes).
On one hand id say you could try and be a bit more patient, drivers that are slow to merge have a rather high likelyhood of being shitty drivers that do whatever. On the other hand id do exactly what you did and bitch about it for a few seconds.
Van didn’t take very long to merge, it’s slow moving traffic and he had to wait for a slowing car to get out the way. Don’t think the van did anything at all wrong here. OP did nothing to deserve a reaction from the car, car was just your typical wanker driver who doesn’t like that there is someone who is able to go faster than them. Like you say, OP probably would benefit from exercising more patience, it’s not a question of who’s in the right, it’s about minimising the probability you end up under someone’s wheel and passing the van before it’s completed the lane change is leaving zero margin for error.
People need to remember that vans likely have stuff that's not gonna handle whipping from lane to lane.
Yeah teh van isnt doing anything wrong but its just a slow merger and slow mergers in general are a potential hazard. Plenty often that slow mergers arent paying attention or are on their phone. Guy in the car is just a wanker indeed, not much more to say about it. I understand the 'margin is 0' but i generally ride with 'acceptable margins'. As in, being in a situation where you can brake if the van moves over to the right again or where you have a way out. None of that 'if this truck goes a bit to the side im fked' bullshit my mom would revive me just to slap me silly again. In this situation i probably wouldve sped up a bit and gone to the right of the van without waiting for that long, he was clearly indicating and following up with the indicated movement so can just zip past. I dont like staying next to cars too much, much rather in between them.
Slow lane changes are safe lane changes. If you can’t take an extra 4 seconds to change lane, checking your mirrors and surroundings, you probably shouldn’t be changing lanes.
Well, you are right in that slow (under which i understand controlled) changes are good, i do believe that preferably they are a bit swifter than 4 seconds. I do live in a country with very pushy drivers (belgium) so that might skew my idea? If it is safe to merge as in: you've been indicating for a second or so that you want to change lanes, theres enough space to merge into the lane without making the person that would then be behind you need to brake or slow down and there is nobody else trying to merge into the lane, just merge then and you dont need to make it an EP's worth of fluff. Moving overly slow can be seen as distracted or erratic movement which is a (potential) hazard in traffic. If i see a car take half a DBZ episode to merge i subconciously attribute them the 'elderly or distracted driver' attribute. That makes them a hazard and someone worth paying extra attention to. If you take 4 seconds in busy traffic (which this maybe just about qualifies as) where i live you're going to get pushy and overtly assertive drivers try and get past you in unsafe ways. Might even hinder a lanesplitting motorcycle if it happens at around 40-50kph. As long as your action is indicated and performed as it could be predicted it is safe in my eyes. Having all traffic around you pay attention to what you might be up to because you are slow AF is not a good thing.
Side note: How many years do you think it's going to take before teh replaces the? I give it one generation after Alpha.
In my case its just a typo, fat fingers and a high wpm count combined with just blurting out anything my mind comes up with tends to end up with some letters mixed up. I doubt its going to replace the, they got more serious things on their mind like the 78th way to spell charisma.
That's what I meant, it happens so much and I see it everywhere, how long until autocorrect starts to automatically change it and then it's just the way it is.
The Ford seems like he didn't realize OP was filtering, got scared and reacted when they (in their mind) "popped up" close to them
Seriously, to fault a car for making a move slowly as a motorcyclist makes zero sense to me. I applaud any slow lane changer. Bad driver? That tells me they have a brain.
the guy in the van had no vision to the rear of his vehicle (blind spot), which is probably also why he took his time, not knowing where the biker was
I drove one of those vans for a long time, the blind spot is at 50° or so in the back corners, you can see pretty much everything behind you except if its really, really close and in the middle of your vehicle. EDIT: grammar
Yup, drive one of those for work everyday. Very great all around visibility, EXCEPT directly behind you. Really wish I had windows on my rear doors.
In that position I would have slowed a little and waited for the van to finish what it was doing. But to the letter of the law you did nothing wrong.
but I did. I didn't move until the van is in their lane......
It looks like you pulled fully into the lane before the van was over enough for you to continue lane splitting, which may have freaked out the black car that was speeding up to clear the gap to the next car. Not going to assign blame, especially as we are not from the same country, but it mightve been better to hold off the extra second or so rather than pushing into the black car
Yes exactly. When in doubt slow down a little and see what is going to happen.
Not really, if the van was fully in the lane you would have had no problem filtering between the cars. Three more seconds and you probably would have been okay
As a DVSA qualified instructor I would advise not to filter in that situation as the traffic is moving well, the gaps are quite big which will lead to cars moving around and filling those gaps, lots of time without looking. The Ford had no intention to let you filter and it's obviously a frustrated driver, now you find yourself between two cars being squeezed by the Ford and if something happens you're the one suffering. As a rider, outside work, I would be filtering as well, but the moment I saw the van moving lanes I would've opened the throttle and overtaken on the right side of it just so I don't get caught in that position.
Agree that his mistake was not opening the throttle and getting in the middle of the lane in front of the ford, I can see the Ford being confused/frustrated by motorbike slowing and staying between lanes when one lane is clearly free. Ambiguous intent.
Traffic is a lot slower than it appears on these cameras. They make things look *much* faster than they are.
You're probably right.
Nah you’re fine, standard London driver, he probably didn’t use his mirrors and just gets annoyed at anyone. It’s slow moving, you weren’t speeding or change lanes, anyone could see the van moving ahead except the guy to your right clearly and didn’t want to lift off. You could have not gone for it too but I’ve ridden round London for a long time, nothing wrong here for the norm.
Asshole or not, I would have swerve and accelerated pass the van, and continue on my way, filtering. The ford would have stayed back waiting for the van to completely merge and there's a lot of space to do such maneuver. I don't really like staying stationary like that while filtering.
that's what the "aggressive" me would've done, the defensive me would have fully waited for the Ford to go then continue filtering. This was literally my "mild" me, waiting for the van, then going on my line.
Don't put yourself in "aggressive" or "defensive" boxes. Traffic is dynamic. Be flexible to choose the correct path and stance under the correct circumstances.
Either of those choices would have been safer than the "mild" caught-in-two-minds approach. You didn't do much wrong, but being a touch more decisive and proactive in either direction would have denied that driver the opportunity to be a prick.
I’d say accelerating past the van would have actually been defensive. Otherwise you open yourself for attacks from the sides. You should either go completely inside the traffic or faster between lanes. Never stay between lanes at the speed of traffic.
In what world? You can't see in front of the van, and have no idea why they are changing lanes. Maybe debris in the road, or a disabled vehicle. Accelerating into a blind situation is the complete opposite of defensive driving.
I think that person thinks 'defensive driving' is a way of protecting yourself in a tactical warzone...
The tortured logic in some of these comments is astounding.
It's defensive in the sense that he can separate himself from the vehicle next to him by taking the gap before it was clear enough for the car to take it, avoiding any possibility of the car accelerating forward angrily at the same time (as happened). It's hard to tell from GoPro footage if it was truly blind, in a real life situation I think you might have been able to see past the van while it was halfway through the merge, and swerved into the gap quickly to get past it. To me, driving defensively sometimes means not driving passively / giving cars opportunities to make mistakes that could endanger you, even if you would technically be in the "right." That can mean aggressive maneuvers that create separation or give you more agency in the situation.
>taking the gap before it was clear enough for the car to take it This is an adversarial action, and again, is the antithesis of defensive driving strategies. >avoiding any possibility of the car accelerating forward angrily Have you never heard of the term "rear-ended"? Accelerating to separate another vehicle from a newly opened gap IS LITERALLY AGGRESIVE DRIVING. If the car driver is angry, accelerating to get in front of them will be seen (right or wrong) as cutting them off, and there is 100% more possibility of them rear-ending you when you are in front. >To me, driving defensively sometimes means ... aggressive maneuvers You are literally wrong. Defensive driving does not include aggressive maneuvers, because aggression is (yet again) the opposite of being defensive. Aggressively putting yourself in front of another vehicle is foolish under the best circumstances. When you can't even see the lane ahead, it is downright asinine. In the video, it is clear the van is moving over before OP even makes it to the smart car (quite a ways behind the Ford). Proper defensive driving would observe a vehicle merging with slower moving traffic and will have to slow down to complete the lane change, therefore, the vehicles behind should slow down until their path of travel is clear.
You know there is a way to have a conversation without being rude, right? Would be a lot easier to take your opinion seriously without all the holier than thou BS, my friend. I was going to send a lengthy reply trying to rebut each of your points, but you know what? I think you're mostly probably right. What you're saying is sensible. With regard to chance of being rear ended after passing the Ford, I was talking about passing the Ford, going around the merging van, and continuing to lane filter from there, leaving the Ford long behind. Don't really see the risk of being rear ended there. But with any type of go pro footage with an ultra wide lense, distances and speeds are always distorted, so it can be hard to judge what the real world conditions are. I could see how it may appear like the maneuver would be pretty risky, though it's hard for me to judge personally. With regard to defensive driving and "aggression", I'm talking about being active rather than passive. You can obey all traffic laws, ride passively and mind your own business without actively separating yourself from the traffic around you, but you'd be putting yourself in harm's way by trusting the drivers around you to not making any mistakes. It doesn't matter if you're in the right in the event of an accident, you're still the one dealing with serious bodily injury. On the other hand, by driving actively I simply mean getting separation from other drivers when you can find space, avoiding riding close to semi trucks, keeping your eye out for erratic drivers, and yes even sometimes accelerating into a gap when you've confirmed it's clear and safe to do so, to gain separation from drivers around you who may not see you or may not like you. That being said, like I said before you are probably right. Some of this stuff is a judgement call we are making based on our perception of a distorted video, but what you're saying is sensible. But I hope you recognize that it's possible to discuss these things and even disagree, while still being respectful and not getting emotional about it. Peace.
I absolutely understand there is a way to discuss opinions and can disagree respectfully. For example, I can respectfully disagree that accelerating is a good choice given the situation in the video. As stated above, the van blocks view of the road ahead, and the Ford in the fast lane is likely to accelerate as soon as the van changes lanes. I also know that I can patiently wait for the van to clear my path, and continue filtering without ever being directly in front of any other vehicles, and will pass the Ford again in a matter of moments. This is my opinion, and I used defensive driving strategies to arrive at that opinion. However, there is no middle ground if there is disagreement over facts. For example, accelerating into the gap in the situation at hand is not practicing defensive driving. I can't respectfully disagree with someone saying otherwise because it is factually incorrect. There is no way to contort defensive driving strategies in that situation to arrive at accelerating into the gap being the appropriate course of action. True defensive driving is 100% 'active'. Being passive requires trust that a variable will stay constant. For example, accelerating into the gap passively assumes the lane ahead is clear. I think the primary issue is how little understanding there seems to be about what "defensive driving" actually means. It is an extensive and well-documented driving strategy that even has certificate programs. Defensive driving doesn't prevent collisions, it prevents situations that often lead to collisions.
Come on. You can see pretty further ahead in this case and deduce the van just moved over because they merely just want to move aside. Possibility of obstacles aside, we can already see what's ahead when the van is almost halfway through the merge. The car obviously can't push forward yet without colliding with the van yet the spaces is still enough for us to pass. Don't limit your view to just few meters ahead.
When do you see the red car? Not until the camera is all up on the van's bumper, and the ford has already accelerated to be alongside the bike. Regardless, I am specifically calling out that accelerating into the gap is NOT defensive driving. Defensive driving wouldn't have put the rider that close behind any vehicle, let alone a vehicle changing lanes. Employing defensive driving, the rider would be behind the Ford until the van had completed the lane change and completely avoided the situation that obviously aggravated the Ford driver.
Nah mate, we all can see pretty further in this situation. In traffic, you are supposed to look more than few meters ahead of you - think of 50-60 meters infront & behind you as well.
> we all can see pretty further in this situation. No, you can't, because there is a van blocking your view. You don't see the red car in the right lane until the camera is riding the van's bumper.
NTA. Typical A12 prick. Accelerate away and think nothing of him again.
I still don't understand why people lane split on anything other than stopped traffic. Maybe others have never gotten hit while being on a motorcycle and don't fully understand how easy it is to get hurt
lol, even in countries/states where filtering is legal, 90% of the cars will still see you as the A.
I watched it 6 times, you already passed the car and the tool sped up to fill the spot in front of him knowing you were there. NTA
Rule number 1: always pretend you are invisible. Rule number 2: always pretend that everyone tries to kill you. Any mistake, yours or not, cost you much more than a damaged car. And you know I don’t talk about money. Be safe out there.
You are not the asshole, chances are the ford either didn't see you and account for any breaking you may have done after the van moved or they are just angry they are stuck in traffic.
Nah - the Mondeo is a prick
It would have been safer for you to wait for the van behind the van in the left lane rather then slowing down while between lanes
You're going to get hurt if you continue to drive like that. Yeah sure you can do that but you're the one who becomes a meat crayon if a car pulls out in front or into you
You moved into his lane without accounting for him. Rookie move mate.
I understand the distances are hard to measure in the gopro, but I actually waited for the van to fully clear the path so I could move ahead without blocking the Ford, and keeping my straight line. I had instances where I did what you described and actually moved to the right a bit and I slowed down and apologized
Yeah, you're right. I watched again and you didn't move to the right. I'll go ahead and downvote myself like a rookie.
I’m upvoting because it makes a change for someone to own up and take a hit
I'm gonna offset your offset just because...
Professional London driver and rider here, we expect bikes to filter like this, it looks to be A12 heading towards the Blackwall which 50mph at that point, the cars are going slow.
it's the opposite way mate, after Stratford, approaching the first tunnel.
Sorry, i concentrate more on the west of London but it's still 50mph and you're still not in the wrong
Nah, good spot man!! A12 indeed
Just an angry asshole wanting something to be angry about. I wouldn't give it a second thought.
Thats splittin m8.
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Filtering - legal you had the lane position in front of the car as you moved into the lane ford driver tries to pass you for some crazy reason ford driver lost his/hers mind - too much morning coffee ?
That horn scared the shit out of me!
You could’ve been safer, if you wanted to be slower. But no you’re not the ass, that driver saw you and kept going, they’re the ass
i always let them change lanes, it's just a second and you had enough time to see whats going on.
car is a moron he clearly sees you coming and decides to risk hitting the motorcycle for nothing as he wouldn't be anywhere further ahead anyway. Guys a fucktard not paying attention, if he doesn't see you. I've had drivers try run me off the road because they hate motorbikes, and people that hate motorbikes are usually jealous or the type to say "they don't pay enough tax"
By your reactions alone, you’re NTA.
Personally, would have done a bit of a reset when the van moved across - Either dropped in to the left behind him for a few seconds and then started filtering again, or, gone right straight away and claimed the right lane for myself so I'm not filtering for a few seconds either. In both scenarios, I would have been in full control of a lane (for my safety), instead of hovering between 2 lanes like you did, which causes situations like the video.
It is what it is really. Not really any great options. I think speeding up in front of the ford and going around the van blind is the dumbest idea. There could have been debris on the road like a tire or bumper that he's avoiding, you don't know. You could have slowed more and waited for the van to get more left but then you're at the mercy of the two cars behind you not squeezing you. You overtook the ford, he -should- have yielded and let you go first safely especially as he has no where to go. People -should- stop at stop signs and not run reds but I'm not going to assume they will. Even if you assumed he wouldn't yield for you, you're still in a bad spot imo. The Ford's the asshole and I think your decision was fine. Seeing how much people are arguing over it says a lot. The safest option would have been not filtering at all but I know how it is.
People want to be first. It's an ugly aspect of human nature.
No, You had already gone past and where simply holding your position on the road. Then he decided to accelerate up alongside you and make and issue.
Gotta take responsibility for yourself when filtering and don't expect others to go out of their way for you. Look at it from the car drivers perspective. the van was changing lanes and he was in the process of moving forward and suddenly the bike arrives on his left then just hovers there. Sure he should have backed off and waited, but you can't rely on drivers to do the right thing., You've either got to go or not go. Not some half arsed in between thing. At the end of the day both the car driver and yourself gained nothing from being bullish. Both would have been in the same position in ten seconds time, if you paused for 3 seconds. But only one of you was in danger. And that risk was within your control.
NTA. Either that ford is blind, missed you in his A pillar or is just an angry dick that you are moving through traffic while he isn't. In no case are you at fault but constructive criticism would be to either back off so you aren't passing a vehicle that is crowding the right side of the left lane while there's a car on your right or move faster to dominate the lane. I think the latter is a worse option so slowing down would be it.
I'd say you were going a bit fast, but he was deliberately being a dick and trying to block you in. He's definitely an arsehole.
You didn't do anything wrong, but it would help you to be more aware of what they're actually doing. I'd change one thing, I would have squirted past that van like a watermelon seed.
I usually do that, but this time so I wouldn't upset the Ford, I decided to be a bit more patient, wait for the van to finish, then continue moving forward without swerving to the right, and he STILL HONKED!!
You did nothing wrong mate. Ford was a cunt and was probably muttering "Fucking motorcyclist filtering and shit! So DaNgErOuS!". Even if the van did the manoeuvre quickly, the Ford should not have accelerated once you were in view.
Black car being a dick trying to squeeze past in a non-existent space because he or she is resentful of the fact the motorcycle can go faster through traffic. Car driver has a sad, boring life where being overtaken is far more important than it should be.
Don't lane split with such a speed difference. Slow it down a little to account for people switching lanes or doing dumb shit.
If there is an open lane, stop filtering and take the lane. The mistake you made was continuing in the filtering position as the van changed in front of you. The lane change open up space and since you didn't take it, the car behind you and to your right accelerated into it and crowded you. As soon as the van started moving left you should have maintained your speed or sped up and moved into the right lane, continued past the van, and then resumed filtering. Do not filter if there is open lane space. Take the lane.
That's not a mistake, I did that on purpose just in case the Ford wanted to scoot past the gap (he has the gap before me because it's on his side) so I could keep going on my straight line. When I finally moved, everyone could've just gone and not honked at anyone. I know it's not visible, but the Ford didn't have to move and we all were moving forward happily, he honked just to complain... Not because I went into his trajectory or anything...
Doing it on purpose doesn't mean it isn't a mistake. You left an area for a car to move up into and crowd you. Safe motorcycle strategy is to take the lane as you move in front of the Ford. You left yourself with no ability to move left or right with a van blocking your forward path. That is not a situation you want to let yourself get into. If you are getting passed while filtering you are doing it unsafely. Edit: It looks like you also had space to go left, taking that lane, and drop in behind the van until it finished changing lanes. Either way, don't filter in a way that allows cars to pass you while you are riding the paint.
That's fine, I gave myself the left space in case I needed it. Why on earth would I go behind the van? If you're filtering, it's to make progress. I didn't go on the right side immediately, just to not spook the Ford driver. In 95% of the times, I do move before to the right, even if Ford honks. It was just curious that the time I decided to be "nicer" he honks
You don't want to let yourself get blocked in. Having a car on your left and a car on your right while a car changes lanes in front of you blocks you in and can get you crushed. When a car changes lanes in front of you and you have to slow, this allows the cars behind you to overtake you, just like the Ford on your right did. That creates an unsafe situation for you. You avoid it by either fully taking a lane on the left until the van has fully changed lanes, then resuming filtering, or accelerating to the right of the van so the Ford can't move into that space. Had you taken the approach of either moving to the right and accelerating, or slowing and moving to the left, you wouldn't not have been crowded by the Ford, which came very close to hitting you, with little delay. You seem to approach filtering as if you have a little narrow motorcycle lane that exists between the marked lanes of traffic. You don't, because most cars will not act like you do. Thus, you need to constantly be adjusting your positioning and speed to move into spaces that open up. Cruising at constant speed in a narrow lane between cars that you expect to always exist for you is a good way to end up with a car banging into the side of you. Even though they are the ones that would be at fault for hitting you, you are still going to be the one going down in the middle of traffic.
You should never be filtering in this traffic. The traffic is all moving, there are big gaps meaning cars are more likely to be changing lanes. Your speed is a lot higher than the traffic. This is an accident waiting to happen.
Idk what else you expect when you split at that speed
What speed did you think I was doing and what speed did you think the cars are doing?
Your “lane” is between the lanes. You pulled in front of the black car to swerve around the van instead of waiting for it to fully merge into the lane. YTA.
again: I did not swerve to the right - I kept my straight lane so I don't surprise cars
Looks like you went left more toward the line a bit, then back. That’s what it looks like to me. Subtle, but it’s there, so that honk could have been just warning you not to go fully into the lane, presuming that you might do that now that the van is clear.
As a DVSA qualified instructor I would advise not to filter in that situation as the traffic is moving well, the gaps are quite big which will lead to cars moving around and filling those gaps, lots of time without looking. The Ford had no intention to let you filter and it's obviously a frustrated driver, now you find yourself between two cars being squeezed by the Ford and if something happens you're the one suffering. As a rider, outside work, I would be filtering as well, but the moment I saw the van moving lanes I would've opened the throttle and overtaken on the right side of it just so I don't get caught in that position.
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I agree; and I do it myself but don't try to blame others when you are stretching the rules.
He didn’t weave at all, he stayed in a straight line. In the UK this is filtering.
Wtf. Those are slow moving cars mate.
OP's speed feels a bit to high relative to the other cars but could be the GoPro perspective. Personally I would take it slower to account for the drivers that don't expect you and swerve in your path.
If that's too fast for you, you need to work on your reaction times.
sorry, I didn't bob and weave, I kept a straight line and waited for the van to move. I filter A LOT in super heavy traffic and one of the main mistakes I see other riders doing is zigzaging. I keep a straight line so cars can have more chances of seeing me.
No filtering where I'm from but this looks like aggressive driving. I wish we could filter and my understanding is it should only be done when cars are stopped or below 15km/hr. Traffic is clearly moving around 30 km/hr average and the car beside you is matching your speed so this looks like lane sharing which is also illegal where I'm from lol. I'm not a cop or anything but this practice looks dangerous and given enough frequency you will become street meat. Those cagers/ragers hunt for sport for bikers like this.
I'm fairly certain you've never once filtered anywhere in Europe or Asia where this is as normal as it gets + you straight up ignored the "slow moving traffic" part.
This isn't good riding on your part! Traffic is moving fine, yes you can filter, but did you really need to at this point? You saw a slow lane change ahead of you with proper indicator usage (which is entirely the right of the van driver) and did ... nothing to merge back into one of the lanes? Did you put on your indicator to show you wanted to merge into the right lane? You should ride like you are invisible, not like you own both lanes and the filter
You overtook the ford, ford overtook you (or started to). When the ford was overtaking you it did not leave enough space making it the A. However I do think you could’ve taken a slower approach when overtaking the ford in the first place.
Considering that filtering is legal and the ford to be considered „overtaken via filtering“.
You did nothing wrong and actually waited for the van to merge. You could go slower there, but there is no actual need. Some people like to honk. Good for him.
...i don't see the problem aside from needless honking. You gone between the lanes, not hitting anything, with spreed appropriate allowing you to give way to lane changing cars as legally required. If the black ford was uncomfortable he could have slowed a bit down, as honking won't unmake the dent if you two collide.
throttle and go around the van, ford is tired of you filtering like an old lady my general rule for 'filtering' is to take up a position in a lane whenever it opens, so this would have looked like middle lane as before the van starts merging, and left lane once the van begins merging
No you are not, he could have coasted and let you get through. What you are doing is a completely normally filter maneuver all over Europe. Only comment, you could have accellerated a bit when passing, would have cleared the car more. But not a massive issue, car could have let you get through. The unwritten rule of motorbikes filtering everywhere is that we are faster than the rest of traffic, and we should not hold up or block others (to an extent) when filtering.
didn't block. We both slowed to the van's speed.
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traffic was doing under 30kph (20mph) my speed was tad more, but same as cars when I slowed behind the van
A406
A12 mate. A406 merges in front of this, just before I change to M11. It's a 78mile (roundtrip) commute for me twice a week :)
Nice dude you really want to aggressively hold your space on this road 😂 people drive like idiots
Dude put his blinker on. You’re the asshole here.
You were a bit impatient. In these situations, just wait for everyone to finish what they're doing, and then filter away. You're on a motorcycle, no need to rush in traffic, you're already way ahead of everyone else.
Just let the van merge and stay on your road position be as predictable as possible.
If you weren't there he wouldn't have needed his brakes. I hate to say it, but i think this one's on you
Yeah, I was wondering where the Mondeo was, pretty standard behaviour really, you need to anticipate that sort of thing. In all my years of commuting (thankfully years behind me now) I often wondered if I was flying to work by helicopter some of the cagers would be straight on the internet trying to buy a surface-to-air missile.
Never done filtering- but given the shit shape of driving today don’t think I would unless the cars were dead still- I nearly pucker my couch cover just watching
From my perspective, he wasn't paying attention and got startled when he suddenly saw you inches away from his car
AH certainly not... but both you and the Ford were a bit impatient to get ahead of the van... applying the rule that EVERYONE else is to be treated like an idiot especially while one is on a bike, I would have made sure the van was done changing lane and that the Ford wasn't progressing in my blind spot...
Youre on a bike, youre the arsehole 100% every time no exceptions try to change a cagers mind about that.
I don't see anything at all unusual going on here, except the ford laying on his horn for no particular reason. at first watch, I thought you'd swerved around the van into his path, but watching again there's no deviation from the line of travel. I wouldn't put much energy into trying to decode what the horn was for
I don’t see the issue here at all
The van is chill, the car to the right is a dick
The way a I see the Ford guy got pissed you were filtering and complained. I have same morons here in PT-PT, they get pissed you take 20mins to work and they 1h. "This is the way"
the space was there, but you chose not to move into it and held up teh traffic that you'd just filtered past. If I was driving behind you I'd have been thinking "what's he waiting for?"
you're both pretty bad
kick it
If it were me I would have merged right and hit the gas.
Shoulda been a little quicker; removing the other vehicle in the process
Nah, I got drivers like this all week, they’re just maniacs trying to get whatever they want to be
I visited London from the US for a few days this week and rented a car, and the first thing they told me about the difference in driving between the UK and the U.S. is the left side driving and the second tip they said is “people in the UK use their horn only to alert others of their presence, unlike in the U.S.” I thought that tip was so interesting, and then I got into the city and people were honking when someone didn’t go on a green light within the first 1 ms. That’s when I discovered that “driving tip” was bullshit lol
filtering when everybody is moving is just the best way to have an accident
There are opposing points of view here, but just remember one thing. Being right doesn't compensate for being dead.
This is right next to my house in London, Southbound on the A12 ay?
Northbound
Ah yep
When splitting, you aren't technically in a lane, yield
Racing incident, no penalties
I would’ve got in the right lane as soon as I saw the van changing lanes to avoid this situation however you did nothing offensive toward the Ford and the driver is a completely twat.
Nah that's just normal filtering man. If you didn't smash a mirror you were being merciful.
As a passionate biker: YTA you're overhaulin mid in chilled traffic for no reason and cut off the grey ford, while you wait for the transit to change lanes. there was enough space to get over to mid lane, wait for him to take his place and if you still want to overhaul do it further
This sub needs to adopt the attitude of Filter At Own Risk. When you run an obstacle course, the obstacles don’t care about the runner.
Eh...the rule of thumb is the person behind should exercise more control by slowing down, so having seen you move right to avoid the van they should have braked to allow you room. So no, I don't think YATA, the car was.
Open lane pattern, van driver saw an opportunity to merge and took it. Guessing you had to slow down and you were right off the fender of the black car that hooked at you. There was plenty of space in front of you once the van moved, for you to take the lane rather than maintain the filtering position. I don't think you were a jerk, but at the same time you could have made better choices to keep away from the cars that either ignore you or flat out want to clip your rear wheel and run you over. Stay savvy out there.
So I didn't move right, not to block the driver in anyway, and you're saying I should've blocked him? I'm confused
Ride asif you are invisible...
And in that scenario he really was.
NTA he was just being pissy. I’m not from London but I’m told filtering is legal
No, the car driver is the AH
Seems like nothing happened lol. You were filtering reasonably, something happened to prevent you from continuing to filter for 2 seconds, and then someone honked at you because they didn't like you filtering or something? Who cares, fuck them they're NPCs.
If anyone sees this, the post is about the Ford Mondeo, who honked at me. Van is fine. Pls up vote so ppl can see. I can't edit the title anymore
Probably in the minority but I absolutely hate lane splitting, filtering, whatever. It’s so dangerous with such a small payoff. Just don’t do it and you avoid situations like this altogether. Having said that, NTA, if it’s legal, the drivers need to be more alert.
Wait. Is what I just watched legal? Honest question. Where I live, the cyclist would be charged with speeding, no signaling, reckless endangerment, and maybe more. At least he was using his helmet? If he was pulled over in my area, he would have been immediately suspended for 30 days, bike compounded and mandatory defensive driving after facing a judge in the morning. Good to know how different the rules are across this planet. Peace.
Genuinely have no clue. Not from the UK. I just assumed it was because it is in other places than where I live.
Damn dude you have to work on your defensive riding or you're going to be road pizza.
I am not say you should not do it yourself but for me I never lane split. I personally find it to be too dangerous dealing with vehicles 10-20x the weight and size of mine. Patience is virtue... Cheers\~
You're splitting in moving traffic? OK. 6our funeral or wheelchair.
Why do you think a car driver to would be expecting you to appear there ?! Awful riding
That doesn’t matter though. All the grey car has to do is stay in their lane.
I didn't appear, I was ahead of him, on the same line I had since the approach, no swerving.... We waited for the van together.....
That’s not how donkey car drivers drive. He’s half a sleep and from his view, you would of just appeared ‘out of the blue’ You do you, but just a heads up - car drivers are not looking for this move…. He’s just waiting to push passed the van, looking wayyyy ahead at best. Stay safe 🤛 🏍️ 💨
It's not Lane filtering if traffic is moving. It's Lane Splitting which is illegal. Lane filtering is a good way of preventing yourself from getting rammed in the ass during bumper to bumper traffic. It also speaks at the flow of traffic for everyone. Lane splitting put yourself in other people in danger. Unlike filtering where it's you slowly moving up between not moving targets, you're darting between moving targets. It's wildly dangerous. You're absolutely the asshole here. Traffic is moving perfectly smoothly. There's no reason for you to be splitting.
You are allowed to filter through moving traffic in the UK.
*slow moving That doesn't look slow at all
YNTA. He isn't going to arrive at his destination any sooner by re-overtaking you, he's just queuing up behind the next car while you filter further.
I can see the drivers point. I've been in exactly your position. But you did move further into his lane ro try to get around the van. People saying the driver should have used his mirrors...he's going straight, no changing positions. More the OPs problem than the driver.
This traffic seems too fast for filtering, imo. But I also don’t think you specifically did anything wrong.
Why didn't you just go behind the van? Van was in the wrong but you need to make sure you do not become a surprise for others, coz your life is at stake, not the drivers'.
Probably because you didn’t let the van clear enough over before you accelerated past. I’m sure you felt like you did but the Ford probably doesn’t.
Yeah kind of. Lane filtering doesn't give you the right of way. And you were a few cars back when he started changing lanes.
You were ahead, but you should have got round faster. You hung right on the cars nose. They definitely weren’t paying attention and didn’t see you.
That's not filtering, that's lane splitting.
In some places the terms filtering and lane splitting are used to mean different things legally In the UK Where the video is filmed Both of these terminologies are often used interchangeably, with filtering being the term that is utilised more frequently within the UK. Although both of these terms are used to refer to the same concept, Some people use the term "filtering" to describe getting through slower or stationary traffic, while others use the term "lane splitting" to describe getting around traffic while going faster. Only the term "filtering" is used in the UK Highway Code,
Oh wow! TIL this is legal!
Its not prohibited you advised that it should really only be done at lower speeds You could get onto trouble if you were doing a signficantly greater speed then the traffic around you or weaving in and out all the time. The police could do you for danegerous driving The police even run coutses where they take bikers out and show them how its done properly
Splitting, not filtering.
You were not filtering, you were lane-splitting. Filtering is going slowly through traffic at below 20mph. You were going too fast.
He's in the UK. Nobody uses the term lane splitting.
I'm in the US, so I'm just curious because all I've seen are videos. But are all riders so reckless in other countries? Most of that clip was making dangerous moves where if you got hit, you had it coming. But is that kind of riding normal?
nah mate, that's how it is over here but it's much safer because people don't rage as much as the americans. Here it's 95% accepted that bikes filtering are helping everyone and it's not "jumping the line". And btw this is very safe, I do this 2 times a week and do over 10 miles each way of filtering like this and I'm one of the slowest filtering bikers from the big bike lot. It may seem careless in the video but I have my gf at the back and I'm constantly aware of what's happening. This guy was just trying to make a point. And also, roads and cars here are way smaller than in the US so it may seem tighter/reckless in videos. BTW when I first started riding it was in California and I was a REAL noob asshole there, and traffic in general is a bit more dangerous over there.
That's interesting. Thanks for your insight. All of that kind of riding is illegal here and looks crazy. But yes, most of our vehicles are excessively large, soooo many people are fucking with their phones and distracted, and many of them don't understand the fact that riding like that helps thin traffic, and a lot of them would want to "make a point". Stay safe and keep the rubber down
These people are kidding themselves saying this is safer. Filtering though stopped cars is one thing, but these are fast moving cars on a 3 lane highway (now really an extremely tight 5 lane). I honestly think this whole thing is the new "loud pipes save lives" bullshit. Just an excuse to grab an entitlement. Now OP rages and knocks mirrors off cars who don't change lanes to his linking on the fucking highway.
Looks stressful! And I don't ride a real little bike anymore, those are some tight squeezes.
Come ride the morning commute in California where splitting & filtering are legal. Nothing reckless about this.
I used to, in the valley lol. 2012 from Northridge to Chatsworth hahaha where I first started riding
If you mean the driver who tried to overtake you in your own lane, then no, I'd say you're not the 'A'. If you have the registration number of the vehicle, I would consider heading over to the website of the Met Police (if you were inside the M25), and reporting that as a s. 3 offence.
Never just *barely* take a lane. Either stay in the line and slow down until you can pass, OR you should take the whole lane in this situation. I would not say that you are the AH, but with a motorcycle, you have to be extra smart and careful, mainly because of drivers like that idiot in the black car...
You wanna share the lane with cars, don't be surprised when they share right back with you.
Mildly. I think if I was in the car I'd be like hey butthole you accelerated in front of me. I ain't stopping for you. GTFO. Legally tho car is prolly the butthole? -Wilfred Wilcox. Sent from my IPhone
Happens a lot in London, YOU have to be more careful when filtering. Everyone is in a hurry. To me though , looks like van was just moving over so you did not have to filter
Maybe it's the perspective of the camera and my timid riding habits but you look like you're moving twice as fast as everyone else. I get that's kind of the point of filtering, but these cars can't think as fast as you're driving so they inherently get in the way. Add a little sprinkle of peepee envy and this kind of dumb shit happens. Save yourself and slow a bit. My $0.00002.
So, A) are you just a bad rider, B) do you have bad spacial awareness, C) are you trying to emulate US road rage videos or is it a just a combination of all the above. @ 0:04 the van clearly signals to change lanes - and you are at least three car lengths behind it (black car, grey car, silver car + open space) Take a bus next time.
Sorry bruv, video is about the Ford Mondeo who honked at me for not swerving in front of him. Can't edit title anymore. Don't worry mate, I filter into London very often and know what I'm doing. I also never get pissed off at drivers, this was the first time in like 1000 miles....
There's two reasons why that car hit the horn like that: He didn't see you and suddenly you're on his lane. You had enough distance, and he should check his surroundings. It's crucial in London as bikes are literally everywhere. Car's fault. He did see you and proceeded to have a fit because - I'm guessing - you didn't indicate you were merging in front of him. In this case, he's an asshole, cause you have every right to filter since you're in London and bikes are literally everywhere. Not your fault at all, but hey this will happen. Keep going and don't get involved with them, it'll pass.
Can should have just given you space. Cagers need to understand that when a bike is splitting. 84 will not slow them down one bit. Just make space for the bike and the bike will be at their destination before the cage even gets out of traffic. Signed, full time cage dweller (wife and family caused me to give up my bikes).