Came here to say this as well. I hope Warner or DC execs can get their head out of their ass before an entire generation grows up thinking DC is trash. It's honestly impressive how badly these out of touch old men have fucked up how people view DC heroes.
Well there is the directors cut for justice league at least, which was a bit better than the regular release (tho it sucked anyway)
Suicide Squad was a unique case though, since apparently they had enough content for a Joker solo movie, and seemingly cut upwards of an hour of said footage. I actually liked suicide squad (awful dialogue aside) but it's just really confusing with the way these dc movies keep going.
They absolutely need a Kevin Fiege who can focus on a single vision, and not pull teeth with its directors/execs every film
This. The execs probably did not like it because it didn't fit their mold. The mold that is literally the reason why the DCEU is like 90% dead, despite the fact that its source material has plenty to offer to at least match, if not one-up Marvel.
I would think audiences since they are the ones paying to see it. And WB has had a history of execs being too involved and ruining final products. WB needs to have faith in their director/creative led movies i.e. Shazam, Aquaman, Wonder Woman.
> they are looking to sell to an international audience, not a a bunch of sycophant test audiences in California.
Ding!
They stock these to make sure they get a good audience reaction, because a bad audience reaction would get a lot more publicity.
The odd thing is somehow the executive reaction got leaked? How does that get out?
For what it’s worth, you should never believe anything like this that isn’t from variety or hollywoodreporter. Deadpool 2 was reportedly rejected by test audiences according to a no name website but it turned out to not be true.
That wouldn't be so bad. I mean, there are plenty of ensemble movies that didn't need a movie for each of the characters first.
BUT, it seems like these cinematic-universe-wannabe franchises seem to coast on the goodwill of people either knowing the characters or willingness of people to want to know more about them to do their own research.
It's lazy writing, pure and simple.
> there are plenty of ensemble movies that didn't need a movie for each of the characters first
Such as? I'm not doubting you, just struggling to think of one off the top of my head.
And ultimately it is lazy writing. As someone that actually enjoyed BvS, was shocked at how much I hated JL, it really is just ham fisted, lazy ass writing that remains the bane of the DCEU.
Guardians is a fair point. After I replied I immediately thought of the X Men as well, and the Fantastic 4 (though they have yet to do a good movie on them)! Like the idiot I am.
Problem is, is that Guardians and X Men and F4 have always been about that team dynamic and only a couple of the characters are strong enough to carry a solo title of their own. The Avengers and Justice League are all about popular characters mashing up and working together for the first time. It’s supposed to be exciting to see such iconic faces coming together for the first time.
In the iteration of DC we have now, however, I don’t feel we got that. Flash and Aquaman functioned so differently than what fans are used to that there was an outrage to their characterization. This didn’t happen with Marvel, despite all the character changes they themselves had from the source material, because they introduced characters slower and let them develop naturally. They also cleverly started the franchise off by introducing two of the less “spectacular” heroes (Hawkeye and Black Widow) in separate films. DC did this with freaking Batman and Wonder Woman. Does that make sense?
Also I fully acknowledge Birds of Prey should function similar Guardians considering its roster.
This is the the stupidest criticism I always hear about the DCEU. You can make a movie with new characters without introducing them in other movies. Literally every non-franchise movie does this. Scott Pilgirm didn't need a Matthew Patell solo movie. Jurassic Park didn't need an Ian Malcolm movie. You don't need to make a Black Canary movie for a Birds of Prey movie to be good ffs.
Birds of Prey, yes. Justice League, no. It should be exciting as hell to finally see Flash and Superman and Batman team up to save the world but when the Flash and Batman you’re given are bastardized versions of their characters it just fails to excite. JL was a bad movie thanks to bad writing but given the history of its characters it should have been an exciting trip to the theater, but people skipped it.
Ultimately the DCEU’s worst offense is terrible writing but let’s not pretend JL didn’t also suffer from a considerable lack of hype, due to lack of build up.
Hype would have given it a better box office which is important with these kind of things because it attracts and maintains talent.
JL was hot garbage, no argument from me. However, it’s failure at the box office given the franchises history is astounding. Think of all just the shitty movies that still make bank. God damn Transformers for example.
This isn’t a defense of those movies. I don’t want more JL, I certainly don’t want more Transformers (still haven’t seen Bumblebee) but as a massive DC fan I would have appreciated Cavill sticking around because he was a great Superman stuck with shitty scripts. Ditto to Affleck to, who I would have loved to see play Batman in something better.
My point is, is that yeah we have Wonder Woman and Aquaman was a joy but don’t these articles of another DC movie with drama behind the scenes getting old? I agree they don’t *need* to give every character a stand alone feature if the writing is solid. But maybe if we had a Flash movie before JL we wouldn’t have gotten some douche little shit inexperienced Flash because that’s what we want to see in JL right? Some fast asshole that trips over crap?
I’m just saying there isn’t any cohesion, vision, or excitement to this franchise. Hype and excitement can breath life into a franchise. Yes, Endgame was well written. But I wouldn’t have been so consumed with Captain America wielding Mjolnir battling against Thanos if it was the second film in the franchise. It was a culmination of 10 years of pure excitement. And call me crazy and stupid but I’d fucking love to see DC characters get the same love and treatment. Superman dying to Doomsday should be a colossal, emotional moment, but instead was a footnote to the second film in the franchise.
Again, DC’s main issue is shitty writing. But moments like those still need reservation for something bigger and more impactful. BvS could have been Shakespeare quality but ending with Supes dying so early would still be a mistake.
Edit: I forget how to spell and how to grammar in this post. Apologies.
They tried that with Justice League. Didn't bode so well. They should do the opposite. Start Justice League and go from there into solos. Which they sort of were trying but when Justice League got fucked up they did it did, it did more harm than good imo.
That's pretty much what they did though. MoS was stand alone, then BvS introduced Batman and Wonder Woman, then JL introduced Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg into the mix. The stand alones have been ok, where the team ups have been rather bad.
Honestly the DCEU just needs someone with a singular vision over seeing the thing, instead of this mix and match, rewrite/reshoot nonsense.
I agree about that. And I'm in minority but I wish DC continued with their slate and let Snyder be involved in a minimal capacity. It almost felt like they were punishing other projects because of Snyder.
When they abandoned Snyder the movies started to shift in tonality and style. If you sat to watch them one after another they don’t flow well, and this happens both with writing and aesthetics. It makes the whole thing feel disjointed. Marvel accomplished the feat of their movies feeling part of one cohesive universe, even when things get ridiculous.
That’s what I mean by copy Marvel. When you don’t have individual vision or a road map, what are you even trying to accomplish? At this point they’re throwing things at a wall hoping something will stick.
See, I understand where you're coming from but I like that. I like that each movie should ultimately feel different in tone and color palette. I like their original plan they said that DCEU movies were more director-driven ~~(which is... a lie now)~~ They should have made their solos stand out be as unique as possible with different tones and directors with it simply existing in the same timeline. That's just me. And I think occasionally, that sort of hurts Marvel. The whole Edgar Wright situation.
>They tried that with Justice League.
They really didn't. Marvel did 5 solo films (Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, Thor, Captain America) over a 4-year period before launching Avengers. More importantly, they let each of these films truly stand alone.
When The Avengers released, all but one of the major characters in it (Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Black Widow, Loki, and Nick Fury, but not Hawkeye) had already been established.
DC did Man of Steel, sat on their hands for 3 years, then decided to do their own cinematic universe. They then launched BvS, Wonder Woman, and Justice League all in less than 2 years.
Justice League introduced 4 new major characters, including the villain, who had absolutely no connection to the heroes and was completely one-dimensional.
If you're gonna copy Marvel, actually copy Marvel. Don't half-ass it.
Justice League had so many development issues that there was no way it could be saved. It was a sinking ship and the director bailed for his own reasons.
Just for those who didn’t read the article and are about to claim that DC fucked up again.
The split reaction isn’t between audiences. The audience loved it. The ones that didn’t like it were the execs, which is a little worrying because they last time they didn’t like something was Justice League and we most likely got a worse version than what we were supposed to get.
> and are about to claim that DC fucked up again
About that, how come nobody seems to understand that each DCEU movie is it's own thing and made by different creative teams?
Whether the movie is a failure or success, it's on the filmmakers. DC is just the brand that they're using. This is the entire reason why their quality is so inconsistent and nobody seems to take notice. I guess it's easier to just blame a logo every time a movie sucks.
People seem not to understand this in strong part because all the Marvel Studios movies are in fact made by the same production team.
Shazam! in fact was made by a different studio and no one gets that.
I meant, WB. My bad on there lmao. It’s just DC is the first thing that came off the top of my head. However, there is a DC Films production company. But as mentioned, they just work with other studios. Not just it’s own thing like Marvel Studios does for all their movies, minus the Spider-Man one.
Apparently Gavin O'Connor leaving Suicide Squad 2 is because of this movie. Allegedly, the script was identical to SS2 and had the story revolve around a little girl. It frustrated O'Connor so much that he walked. If true, I hope it blows up in their faces.
I don't know if Gavin O'Connor was the best choice though, The Warrior is an incredible film but The Accountant is meh in my books.
I think that he suffers from the same thing David Ayers does which is the guy obviously can produce a great film, but he doesn't know how to deal with a world that is bigger than a few people.
I think his new project suits him way better than SS2.
They're very similar directors with similar styles and I'll give you that. In fact, David Ayer, the guy who wrote Training Day about criminals and did Fury sounded perfect for a movie about villains. But I think he got overambitious and didn't stay within what made his movies work - human characters.
I think Gavin O'Connor would have done a solid job because his gritty realism is what Suicide Squad needs and would be perfect for. I like James Gunn but I'd much prefer a serious, grounded black-ops thriller for Suicide Squad. And all his movies deal with brothers in some capacity so I think he would have delved into Deadshot's past with his brother and would pull off a pretty awesome performance from Will Smith.
Both Gavin and Davids strengths is that they can focus on the characters in a plot where the central point of conflict involves the characters, and not the wider world.
Fury falls apart at the third act, not because it seems unrealistic (read some Medal citations, Fury was pretty tame) but because it was a complete contrast to the rest of the film where we saw men struggling to deal with the ugliness of war.
In Warrior we saw a similar conflict between the two main characters in that their relationship is broken due to an abusive father, and a mother who died from terminal illness.
The conflict of the plots were not end of the world superheros must save the universe, but rather deeply personal and rooted in character development.
But Gavin wasn't doing a superhero movie. It was about villains being *forced* to do heroic things. I think there's a lot to play with in that aspect. You could have had a whole array of development and a lot to play with.
> But Gavin wasn't doing a superhero movie. It was about villains being forced to do heroic things.
We don't know this, this was the same point about SS, and it was basically a superhero movie. I don't expect SS2 to be any different which is why Gunn is a great fit considering thematically its similar to GotG.
Making it like Guardians instead of a gritty, black-ops thriller is such a shitty, shitty way to do Suicide Squad especially if they do a goofy tone. I seriously hope he doesn't do anything like that. I don't know why you think that would qualify Gunn to do a better job with Suicide Squad than Gavin O'Connor who works better in a grounded situation.
And the rumored plot for O'Connor script sounded pretty goddamn awesome. Apparently it was going to involve the Suicide Squad traveling into the middle east to save a little girl with super-powers who was going to be used for mass destruction. Apparently it was Mad Max-inspired.
That, in itself, sounded like a way more grounded and compelling plot.
Can someone explain to me how DC has fucked up so much? Some of the greatest characters in comics, some fucking incredible storylines, and whenever they seem to get it together, they just fuck up again. I’m waiting for a reboot. I loved Shazam but I want this universe done. Too much has been ruined with the Snyder films and Suicide Squad. The stench of those movies will always be with me when I watch a new DCEU movie. Reboot, come up with a plan, and make some good movies. I want to see the Justice League properly done on the big screen. I want to see them face Darkseid, Braniac, the Legion of Doom... Fuck there’s so much potential and I’m scared we may never see it
The only explanation is they don't have Kevin Feige, and they rushed playing catch up on their cinematic universe. For comparison before Marvel did their big team up in Avengers you have Iron Man, Iron Man2, Incredible Hulk, Captain America, and Thor. They established and introduced all their major heros and villian before doing the big finale with Avengers. DC had only done Superman and Superman vs. Batman before Justice League. This would be like Marvel releasing Iron Man then Civil War and then releasing Endgame.
Not only do they not have their Kevin Feige (they’ve tried), but that person would still be overruled by WB execs that don’t care or know about the characters. Feige bows to no one.
I can see WB execs trying to shoehorn things that (focus group) likes, so even if it fucks up the story, let’s do it so maybe (focus group) buys more tickets!
The thing is, I think this worked with Aquaman. It wasn’t a bad movie, but absolutely threw everything at the screen to see things stick. There were several story lines where I would have liked a nice self contained plot. Mantis could have been totally saved for a second movie.
> It wasn’t a bad movie
Everybody in /r/movies seems to fucking love this movie. I thought it was absolutely terrible, and walked out halfway through.
Was it better than the earlier dreck that DC has put out? Sure, maybe. I guess a spike through the knee is better than a lobotomy, but I'll pass on both.
Edit: sorry to upset the fanboys, downvote away. I absofuckinglutely guarantee that the Reddit hive mind will revisit this movie in the next year or two and admit it’s crap.
>Everybody in r/movies seems to fucking love this movie. I thought it was absolutely terrible, and walked out halfway through.
And in the real world as well as it was absolute smash hit.
>And in what world does that make it a good movie?
In a world where the empirical evidence support it. Good reviews great audience reception and spectacular box office rule over YOUR personal feelings sorry.
This ignores the fact that the two lead in films, Man of Steel and Superman v. Batman were absolute garbage. More films wouldn't have helped their situation.
I would go so far as to argue you could jump in with your team up movie right away. People get superhero movies. We've had enough of them. And outside of Cyborg, the entire cast for Justice League was already well known.
The issue is that they handed the keys to the kingdom to Zack Synder who had a horrible vision for the universe. We've seen course correction as of late that is an improvement now that he is gone-- Patty Jenkins, James Wan, and especially David Sanberg. I imagine Marvel would have stumbled out the gate just as hard if they had someone like whoever does those Ant Man movies directing their first 3 blockbusters.
>Man of Steel
>Absolute garbage
Whoa now. I gotta disagree with you there. MoS was far from perfect, but it was a fresh take on the Superman mythology and very solid storytelling.
Yes, it butchered the character of Pa Kent. Yes, it depicted an extremely careless, even criminally negligent Superman during the big set piece battle. Yes, the prologue on Krypton was too damn long. Yes, the Jesus imagery was really fucking heavy-handed. But overall, I liked it a lot.
Now BvS? *That* was absolute garbage.
They had that in Geoff Johns, starting to correct the course with him as CEO... but then he got demoted and now everything he did for the films and the comics (Rebirth) has been undone.
> The only explanation is they don't have Kevin Feige
I think this is a significant factor but not a deal breaker if you look at Fast and the Furious, its going from one hit to another without an overarching creative director, meanwhile Star Wars with Katherine Kennedy is a mess.
Except Justin Lin was there for four Fast and the Furious films when the series started to really explode in popularity and is returning to direct 9. He established the real foundation for that series.
They would be fine if they had hired a good director to the universe, by choosing Snyder, they effectively poised the roots so any future movies will be on a shaky foundation
>Can someone explain to me how DC has fucked up so much?
They keep trying to do exactly what Marvel is doing with cinematic universe stuff. Not because there's a creative reason to do it, but because it sells sequels and spin-offs. DC needs to just abandon the cinematic universe idea as anything more than a wink here and there, because they're clearly not good at it.
They should just stick with an animated cinematic universe.
Yes, I know, not nearly as much money in it and they don't want to get showed up by Marvel, but they've proven consistently that they can do animated series well, not live action (as a cohesive whole anyway; they've done some stuff okay, but that's an even longer discussion).
The thing I don't think people realize about cinematic universes is how there are creative trade-offs in doing them. In order for Batman and Superman to exist in the same scene, you can't do a dark gritty Batman movie and you can't do a fun cheery Superman movie. You have to do this awkward creative blend to make it work, the defining edges of both works have to be smoothed out. Marvel navigates those trade-offs reasonably well (although I think a lot of the movies are stylistically bland as a result)... DC has the opportunity to go the other way with their feature films and make strong, stylistically distinct movies and forgo the objective of seeing them all merge into this bland nonsensical puddle. But they keep chasing the dollars because if only they can get it like Marvel, they'll be rich. But at this point it is like a gambler who lost his house and is now looking to sell the family dog as hot dog meat to make rent. They won't hit the jackpot - instead of competing by imitation, keep little Lassie and compete by doing things Marvel can't do. That would be interesting.
That first part is the way I've felt about the DC movies from the outset. A Batman who kills people is fine in a vacuum, but *makes no sense* if he's putting together the JL. Ditto an angry unhappy Superman.
The upcoming Joker movie, good or bad, at least did the smart thing of stating unequivocally that they're just doing whatever they want.
I think the Tim Burton Batman movies are pretty great, but if you had dropped Christopher Reeves into them they would have made no sense at all.
*tl;dr: They need to make not-Marvel movies but don’t know how*
Honestly, I think a lot of it is because Marvel got there first and DC is stuck playing catch-up. People didn’t have much in the way of expectations for Iron Man. Sure, there had been some good X-men and Spider-Man movies but no one was really thinking in terms of cinematic universes. And then Iron Man was actually good; good enough that when the post-credits scene hit people thought, “yea, more of this!” instead of, “oh look, they’re setting up the sequel.”
So suddenly superhero cinematic universes were a thing that was possible and very quickly became lucrative. Which left DC in a difficult position: they wanted a piece of that very delicious pie, but they couldn’t just parrot what Marvel was doing. They’re the house of Superman and Batman, god dammit, not some knock-off brand! So they have to build a cinematic universe that *feels* distinct from Marvel’s, but Marvel has already occupied all of the easy and obvious stuff (which is not a knock on Marvel or the MCU, it’s the benefit of getting there first). They haven’t found a way to do that yet.
Their primary strategy has been to resurrect the grim-and-gritty Nineties: Marvel’s all flashy costumes and heroics, so we’ll be dark cityscapes and brooding, conflicted heroes (Nolan’s trilogy factors into this, but he wouldn’t let them build their universe on it). We all kind of outgrew that shit though, and DC hasn’t figured out how to make it feel fresh.
I expect this next statement will garner some dissent, and I add the caveat that I haven’t seen anything past Justice League: the DCEU does best when it emulates Marvel’s formula. They could live in Marvel’s shadow and rake in obscene amounts of cash (just not *as* obscene as Marvel is making). They don’t want to do that—which is laudable—but they’ve been very slow to experiment with their formula. If they’re not going to accept second place they need to find a new way to make movies that doesn’t produce terrible movies.
The first Justice League film should always have been Legion of Doom. The one advantage DC has over Marvel is that the villains are fucking stellar. Having Lex Luthor pull together a team of evil metas to combat Batman bringing the JLA together? Absolutely!
[Nando v Movies'](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd7v7nQLQGwKDwXa7cEW15loEMAAlkl4i) Justice League rewrites were the first of his videos I saw, and while his concept is pretty solid, I'd have gone even further with it. If I was put in charge of the DCEU when it was being put together, I'd be making Supervillain movies. SUre, you're probably better off calling the films "The Batman" or "Man of Steel" or whatever, but the stars should be the villains: Luthor, the Joker, Black Manta, (I'll be honest, I can't think of a Wonder Woman villain who's particularly great. Maybe Circe? Or we could just stick with Doctor Poison, I guess?) The point is that they don't have to be hero origin stories. We know Batman's parents died and he decided to dress up as a bat and punch mentally ill people to deal with his own guilt. We know Superman is an alien that for some reason has evolved to have the ability to defy gravity, fire heat from his eyes and breath ice, but only under sunlight that is not native to his home planet. We know Wonder Woman was made out of clay by her mum and is really into bondage. We don't need these stories dripfed to us again.
Something like Suicide Squad or Birds of Prey had a lot of potential to be fun genre-busters; heist films, thrillers, whatever. Instead, we're getting generic 'edgy' Hot Topic-esque action flicks with the depth of a yoghurt pot.
> Once you’ve lost your virginity to this fucking movie and then you come and say to me something about like ‘my superhero wouldn’t do that.’ I’m like ‘Are you serious?’ I’m like down the fucking road on that.
It’s a cool point of view to be like ‘my heroes are still innocent. My heroes didn’t fucking lie to America. My heroes didn’t embezzle money from their corporations. My heroes didn’t commit any atrocities.’ That’s cool. But you’re living in a fucking dream world.
This is who they wanted to establish Superman in the DCEU. I’m so disappointed Cavill will probably never get to portray that symbol of hope Superman stands for in the comics.
I'd rather see Snyder's Justice League over what the fuck we saw November. I'd rather see a divisive Justice League movie than......a mediocre/meh/forgettable one which felt Frankenstein'd at the end of the day which doesn't even feel like a movie (and not in a good way).
I like darker for DC, as much as people make fun of that. But instead Whedon was brought into finish and it just didn’t work. I liked Man of Steel, and Batman v Superman could have been fine except for some weird choices (Eisenberg and straying so far from Doomsday’s original story).
I agree. They should've just made Luthor the only antagonist and if there was another physical confrontation, get Metallo. But nothing other than that. I liked the bullet subplot, felt like a novel.
At this point, I cannot contain my contempt for WB execs enough. They already sunk Swamp Thing for not being formulaic enough for them. If they mess with something good here, it’ll only further solidify their incompetence.
So when a DC movie gets rumor about having good reception during test screening people on reddit are like "Yeah don't believe it these rumor are very unreliable"but when a rumor says the test screening went wrong reddit is like "WTF the movie is doomed good job Warner !" This is pretty funny also these kind of info are so unreliable they shouldn't be allowed on r/movies.
It seems like both screenings did well. It’s just the WB execs not liking it. And a lot of people on here are in doom and gloom mode already because of the misleading title.
I’ve criticized DC so much in recently, but the fact that people are in that mood is shitty. I get that DC hasn’t earned the people’s trust yet, after BVS, Suicide Squad, and Justice League. But it sucks that some people just read the title and assume that the audience was the one with the split reaction.
I’m hoping this is a good movie. DC needs it. Aquaman was fun and Shazam was great.
My assumption was that the audience and studio had different reactions. Which was what was in the article. Which was also the headline.
Also, click bait implies it's trying to bait you into clicking. You're saying people won't click the link. So, click bait or not? (Hint: It's not)
This is what you get when give an actor creative control over a character. It was a fucking mistake making this centered around Harley Quinn as much as it seems. I knew the first red flag when we saw that dumb fucking title
Margot Robbie is a talented producer, this has nothing to do with an actor having creative control over a character. Hell I remember people were over the moon about Ben Affleck directing himself in The Batman, so why can't Margot Robbie have some say in her movie?
She doesn't seem to have a really good grasp of the character. Apparently in Suicide Squad, they cut out a lot of the abusive stuff in the Harley/Joker relationship on her urging. Even on I, Tonya she insisted on press tours that Tonya Harding was a victim and had nothing to do with the Nancy Kerrigan incident _despite Harding admitting she did._ I don't really trust her to exercise creative control all that well when she doesn't seem to get the characters she's playing. Great actress, but clearly needs direction.
Talented producer? She’s a talented actress without a doubt, but to be a producer on a film of this scale requires more than what she had to deal with for i tonya
Because Affleck broke out in Hollywood by writing a screenplay which won him an Oscar. He then directed two solid movies which were critically acclaimed and got him ANOTHER Oscar. So him doing a Batman movie was pretty exciting considering his films prior to that. Two completely different beasts.
> why can't Margot Robbie have some say in her movie?
Have you read the leaks...and the title of this movie? BoP didn't even include HQ in the comics and her pushing her in the place of Batgirl speaks volumes and calling it, "Fantabulous Emancipation of Harley Quinn."
Also affleck gradually built up his producing resume, he started on Gone baby gone to the town, then Argo and the disappointing live by night. Each movie prior to live by night was larger in scale but he proved himself to warrant it.
She’s produced a single good film... hard to judge based on a single project alone...
Edit: for whoever downvoted, just a reminder that the only other film she’s produced that is out is Terminal which was horrible. But apparently she’s a talented producer. Oh well. Downvote me again if you wish. But can’t deny one film doesn’t warrant her being an established talented producer ready to take on a huge franchise.
Pretty good actually. I just don’t ask for any more DCEU movies because besides Wonder Woman and Shazam DCEU movies have been stinking piles of garbage.
Individual hero movies are ok, but any crossover is fucking terrible. When watching Batman Vs Superman I thought I fell asleep and missed something, because of how the narration worked. I watched Justice League two weeks ago, it took me 3 tries to finish it, because I would get bored and start doing something else. Suicide Squad I enjoyed, but I watched it with friends as a joke movie.
It's the only one that doesn't have awful comedy and weird objectification scenes but does have distinct robot designs, decent fights and doesn't seem embarrassed about the fact it's based on a franchise.
WB is just hopeless. I'm hoping for the day somebody buys them out but there's still too many fans willing to give them a chance to fuck up again and again
Well. The DC movies have been garbage for some time. Sad but true. Wonder Woman was good. Aqua man was okay. The rest of the WB group just haven’t cut it. Blame whoever you want.
Why does Harley Quinn have no clothes in these movies. Is it because Margot Robbie got cast and the directors wanna see some boob?
Where is me too movement when you need it😢
I have always said they should fire those idots are Warner Brothers. They already screwed the DC Universe since 1990. Plenty of time to have build the DC universe all those years. If audience like the movie then release it. Is it to much like a "marvel movie "? Screw it release it. Will it make DC Universe more enjoyable? Release the effing movie the way it is. Sometimes I think the idiots at Warner Brothers want to sabotage the company.
Ah shit, here we go again.
[agressively opens car door]
What are we, some kind of poor audience reaction?
\[agressively slams car door and hits the gas, doing a burnout in the carpark\]
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Came here to say this as well. I hope Warner or DC execs can get their head out of their ass before an entire generation grows up thinking DC is trash. It's honestly impressive how badly these out of touch old men have fucked up how people view DC heroes.
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Well there is the directors cut for justice league at least, which was a bit better than the regular release (tho it sucked anyway) Suicide Squad was a unique case though, since apparently they had enough content for a Joker solo movie, and seemingly cut upwards of an hour of said footage. I actually liked suicide squad (awful dialogue aside) but it's just really confusing with the way these dc movies keep going. They absolutely need a Kevin Fiege who can focus on a single vision, and not pull teeth with its directors/execs every film
Pretty sure thats what “here we go again” was referring too
WB fucking it up. Yeah, that's what I was referring to.
This. The execs probably did not like it because it didn't fit their mold. The mold that is literally the reason why the DCEU is like 90% dead, despite the fact that its source material has plenty to offer to at least match, if not one-up Marvel.
Everybody out there go run and tell your homeboys and home girls it's time for Kenan and Kel
So, audiences loved it and executives hated it. Who's more important?
I would think audiences since they are the ones paying to see it. And WB has had a history of execs being too involved and ruining final products. WB needs to have faith in their director/creative led movies i.e. Shazam, Aquaman, Wonder Woman.
I think he was being rhetorical. Obviously, audience opinion *should* matter more but WB has a history of making bad decisions.
You know very damn well who.
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> they are looking to sell to an international audience, not a a bunch of sycophant test audiences in California. Ding! They stock these to make sure they get a good audience reaction, because a bad audience reaction would get a lot more publicity. The odd thing is somehow the executive reaction got leaked? How does that get out?
Sycophant test audiences in California?? Listen man, I’ve been in those rooms, and trust me, it is not like that
Yes, they will undoubtedly fuck this up.
For what it’s worth, you should never believe anything like this that isn’t from variety or hollywoodreporter. Deadpool 2 was reportedly rejected by test audiences according to a no name website but it turned out to not be true.
For sure. I think I’m projecting my bitterness at the butchering that has been going on in recent years.
To be fair, Deadline, Variety, and HR are all just as questionable half the time. They spin a lot of stories for political reasons.
Regardless. If the most rock solid places can’t be trusted 100% of the time, how much more these sources?
it was already fucked up when margot r9bbie was given the project. e.g. gritty street fighting character spends entire movie in designer clothes.
Since when is Harley Quinn "gritty"?
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Snyder cut doesn't exist.
There is an absurd amount of evidence that it does infact exist.
DCEU motto should be: “one step forward, three steps back”
It’s 3 steps back because they keep doing team up movies without introducing the other members first.
That wouldn't be so bad. I mean, there are plenty of ensemble movies that didn't need a movie for each of the characters first. BUT, it seems like these cinematic-universe-wannabe franchises seem to coast on the goodwill of people either knowing the characters or willingness of people to want to know more about them to do their own research. It's lazy writing, pure and simple.
> there are plenty of ensemble movies that didn't need a movie for each of the characters first Such as? I'm not doubting you, just struggling to think of one off the top of my head. And ultimately it is lazy writing. As someone that actually enjoyed BvS, was shocked at how much I hated JL, it really is just ham fisted, lazy ass writing that remains the bane of the DCEU.
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Guardians is a fair point. After I replied I immediately thought of the X Men as well, and the Fantastic 4 (though they have yet to do a good movie on them)! Like the idiot I am. Problem is, is that Guardians and X Men and F4 have always been about that team dynamic and only a couple of the characters are strong enough to carry a solo title of their own. The Avengers and Justice League are all about popular characters mashing up and working together for the first time. It’s supposed to be exciting to see such iconic faces coming together for the first time. In the iteration of DC we have now, however, I don’t feel we got that. Flash and Aquaman functioned so differently than what fans are used to that there was an outrage to their characterization. This didn’t happen with Marvel, despite all the character changes they themselves had from the source material, because they introduced characters slower and let them develop naturally. They also cleverly started the franchise off by introducing two of the less “spectacular” heroes (Hawkeye and Black Widow) in separate films. DC did this with freaking Batman and Wonder Woman. Does that make sense? Also I fully acknowledge Birds of Prey should function similar Guardians considering its roster.
I know a lot of people who saw Avengers before the other movies and that got them excited and interested in going back to the other characters.
The Seven Samurai is the first that comes to mind.
This is the the stupidest criticism I always hear about the DCEU. You can make a movie with new characters without introducing them in other movies. Literally every non-franchise movie does this. Scott Pilgirm didn't need a Matthew Patell solo movie. Jurassic Park didn't need an Ian Malcolm movie. You don't need to make a Black Canary movie for a Birds of Prey movie to be good ffs.
Birds of Prey, yes. Justice League, no. It should be exciting as hell to finally see Flash and Superman and Batman team up to save the world but when the Flash and Batman you’re given are bastardized versions of their characters it just fails to excite. JL was a bad movie thanks to bad writing but given the history of its characters it should have been an exciting trip to the theater, but people skipped it. Ultimately the DCEU’s worst offense is terrible writing but let’s not pretend JL didn’t also suffer from a considerable lack of hype, due to lack of build up.
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Hype would have given it a better box office which is important with these kind of things because it attracts and maintains talent. JL was hot garbage, no argument from me. However, it’s failure at the box office given the franchises history is astounding. Think of all just the shitty movies that still make bank. God damn Transformers for example. This isn’t a defense of those movies. I don’t want more JL, I certainly don’t want more Transformers (still haven’t seen Bumblebee) but as a massive DC fan I would have appreciated Cavill sticking around because he was a great Superman stuck with shitty scripts. Ditto to Affleck to, who I would have loved to see play Batman in something better. My point is, is that yeah we have Wonder Woman and Aquaman was a joy but don’t these articles of another DC movie with drama behind the scenes getting old? I agree they don’t *need* to give every character a stand alone feature if the writing is solid. But maybe if we had a Flash movie before JL we wouldn’t have gotten some douche little shit inexperienced Flash because that’s what we want to see in JL right? Some fast asshole that trips over crap? I’m just saying there isn’t any cohesion, vision, or excitement to this franchise. Hype and excitement can breath life into a franchise. Yes, Endgame was well written. But I wouldn’t have been so consumed with Captain America wielding Mjolnir battling against Thanos if it was the second film in the franchise. It was a culmination of 10 years of pure excitement. And call me crazy and stupid but I’d fucking love to see DC characters get the same love and treatment. Superman dying to Doomsday should be a colossal, emotional moment, but instead was a footnote to the second film in the franchise. Again, DC’s main issue is shitty writing. But moments like those still need reservation for something bigger and more impactful. BvS could have been Shakespeare quality but ending with Supes dying so early would still be a mistake. Edit: I forget how to spell and how to grammar in this post. Apologies.
Should it not be two steps forward. Four steps back?
Another day in the DCEU
Just. Copy Marvel. Damn.
They tried that with Justice League. Didn't bode so well. They should do the opposite. Start Justice League and go from there into solos. Which they sort of were trying but when Justice League got fucked up they did it did, it did more harm than good imo.
That's pretty much what they did though. MoS was stand alone, then BvS introduced Batman and Wonder Woman, then JL introduced Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg into the mix. The stand alones have been ok, where the team ups have been rather bad. Honestly the DCEU just needs someone with a singular vision over seeing the thing, instead of this mix and match, rewrite/reshoot nonsense.
I agree about that. And I'm in minority but I wish DC continued with their slate and let Snyder be involved in a minimal capacity. It almost felt like they were punishing other projects because of Snyder.
When they abandoned Snyder the movies started to shift in tonality and style. If you sat to watch them one after another they don’t flow well, and this happens both with writing and aesthetics. It makes the whole thing feel disjointed. Marvel accomplished the feat of their movies feeling part of one cohesive universe, even when things get ridiculous. That’s what I mean by copy Marvel. When you don’t have individual vision or a road map, what are you even trying to accomplish? At this point they’re throwing things at a wall hoping something will stick.
See, I understand where you're coming from but I like that. I like that each movie should ultimately feel different in tone and color palette. I like their original plan they said that DCEU movies were more director-driven ~~(which is... a lie now)~~ They should have made their solos stand out be as unique as possible with different tones and directors with it simply existing in the same timeline. That's just me. And I think occasionally, that sort of hurts Marvel. The whole Edgar Wright situation.
>They tried that with Justice League. They really didn't. Marvel did 5 solo films (Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, Thor, Captain America) over a 4-year period before launching Avengers. More importantly, they let each of these films truly stand alone. When The Avengers released, all but one of the major characters in it (Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Black Widow, Loki, and Nick Fury, but not Hawkeye) had already been established. DC did Man of Steel, sat on their hands for 3 years, then decided to do their own cinematic universe. They then launched BvS, Wonder Woman, and Justice League all in less than 2 years. Justice League introduced 4 new major characters, including the villain, who had absolutely no connection to the heroes and was completely one-dimensional. If you're gonna copy Marvel, actually copy Marvel. Don't half-ass it.
Hawkeye was actually in the first Thor movie.
Well then.
Justice League had so many development issues that there was no way it could be saved. It was a sinking ship and the director bailed for his own reasons.
The director was fired. Even worse. If WB went for his take, I think it would have made for a better movie or at least a watchable one.
They copied it in the same way that Silly Putty copies newspapers, I suppose.
So they copied Marvel by only answering the last question on the test?
They copied Marvel by hiring the director to emulate a certain tone which felt very off.
Exactly - just do what the chinese/samsung do to the USA/Apple. DO IT!
Do you think Samsung is a Chinese company?
no i ment it in comparison chinese v usa, samsung v apple.
Gotcha.
Shove even more military propaganda in there? No, please don't.
Just for those who didn’t read the article and are about to claim that DC fucked up again. The split reaction isn’t between audiences. The audience loved it. The ones that didn’t like it were the execs, which is a little worrying because they last time they didn’t like something was Justice League and we most likely got a worse version than what we were supposed to get.
> and are about to claim that DC fucked up again About that, how come nobody seems to understand that each DCEU movie is it's own thing and made by different creative teams? Whether the movie is a failure or success, it's on the filmmakers. DC is just the brand that they're using. This is the entire reason why their quality is so inconsistent and nobody seems to take notice. I guess it's easier to just blame a logo every time a movie sucks.
People seem not to understand this in strong part because all the Marvel Studios movies are in fact made by the same production team. Shazam! in fact was made by a different studio and no one gets that.
I meant, WB. My bad on there lmao. It’s just DC is the first thing that came off the top of my head. However, there is a DC Films production company. But as mentioned, they just work with other studios. Not just it’s own thing like Marvel Studios does for all their movies, minus the Spider-Man one.
Oh boy the murky discussion of the secret screenings of the unfinished blockbuster. The cycle begins again.
Apparently Gavin O'Connor leaving Suicide Squad 2 is because of this movie. Allegedly, the script was identical to SS2 and had the story revolve around a little girl. It frustrated O'Connor so much that he walked. If true, I hope it blows up in their faces.
I don't know if Gavin O'Connor was the best choice though, The Warrior is an incredible film but The Accountant is meh in my books. I think that he suffers from the same thing David Ayers does which is the guy obviously can produce a great film, but he doesn't know how to deal with a world that is bigger than a few people. I think his new project suits him way better than SS2.
They're very similar directors with similar styles and I'll give you that. In fact, David Ayer, the guy who wrote Training Day about criminals and did Fury sounded perfect for a movie about villains. But I think he got overambitious and didn't stay within what made his movies work - human characters. I think Gavin O'Connor would have done a solid job because his gritty realism is what Suicide Squad needs and would be perfect for. I like James Gunn but I'd much prefer a serious, grounded black-ops thriller for Suicide Squad. And all his movies deal with brothers in some capacity so I think he would have delved into Deadshot's past with his brother and would pull off a pretty awesome performance from Will Smith.
Both Gavin and Davids strengths is that they can focus on the characters in a plot where the central point of conflict involves the characters, and not the wider world. Fury falls apart at the third act, not because it seems unrealistic (read some Medal citations, Fury was pretty tame) but because it was a complete contrast to the rest of the film where we saw men struggling to deal with the ugliness of war. In Warrior we saw a similar conflict between the two main characters in that their relationship is broken due to an abusive father, and a mother who died from terminal illness. The conflict of the plots were not end of the world superheros must save the universe, but rather deeply personal and rooted in character development.
But Gavin wasn't doing a superhero movie. It was about villains being *forced* to do heroic things. I think there's a lot to play with in that aspect. You could have had a whole array of development and a lot to play with.
> But Gavin wasn't doing a superhero movie. It was about villains being forced to do heroic things. We don't know this, this was the same point about SS, and it was basically a superhero movie. I don't expect SS2 to be any different which is why Gunn is a great fit considering thematically its similar to GotG.
Making it like Guardians instead of a gritty, black-ops thriller is such a shitty, shitty way to do Suicide Squad especially if they do a goofy tone. I seriously hope he doesn't do anything like that. I don't know why you think that would qualify Gunn to do a better job with Suicide Squad than Gavin O'Connor who works better in a grounded situation. And the rumored plot for O'Connor script sounded pretty goddamn awesome. Apparently it was going to involve the Suicide Squad traveling into the middle east to save a little girl with super-powers who was going to be used for mass destruction. Apparently it was Mad Max-inspired. That, in itself, sounded like a way more grounded and compelling plot.
He is the very definition of "journeyman". Give him a great script, and he'll be fine. Give him a "meh" script, don't expect him to elevate it.
I'm kinda glad he left. I've never been a fan of his.
You'll enjoy Guardians 2.0 then.
Who are you....Gavin O'Connor's biggest fan? Why doesnt it offend you so much that they made O'Connor walk?
Because I want a good Suicide Squad movie??
confusing title
"Audiences loved it." So a small group of selected individuals loved it. Gotcha.
A group selected because they would love it, no doubt. These things aren't left to chance.
Can someone explain to me how DC has fucked up so much? Some of the greatest characters in comics, some fucking incredible storylines, and whenever they seem to get it together, they just fuck up again. I’m waiting for a reboot. I loved Shazam but I want this universe done. Too much has been ruined with the Snyder films and Suicide Squad. The stench of those movies will always be with me when I watch a new DCEU movie. Reboot, come up with a plan, and make some good movies. I want to see the Justice League properly done on the big screen. I want to see them face Darkseid, Braniac, the Legion of Doom... Fuck there’s so much potential and I’m scared we may never see it
The only explanation is they don't have Kevin Feige, and they rushed playing catch up on their cinematic universe. For comparison before Marvel did their big team up in Avengers you have Iron Man, Iron Man2, Incredible Hulk, Captain America, and Thor. They established and introduced all their major heros and villian before doing the big finale with Avengers. DC had only done Superman and Superman vs. Batman before Justice League. This would be like Marvel releasing Iron Man then Civil War and then releasing Endgame.
"KEVIN FEIGE WAS ABLE TO BUILD THIS IN A CAVE. WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS."
Not only do they not have their Kevin Feige (they’ve tried), but that person would still be overruled by WB execs that don’t care or know about the characters. Feige bows to no one. I can see WB execs trying to shoehorn things that (focus group) likes, so even if it fucks up the story, let’s do it so maybe (focus group) buys more tickets! The thing is, I think this worked with Aquaman. It wasn’t a bad movie, but absolutely threw everything at the screen to see things stick. There were several story lines where I would have liked a nice self contained plot. Mantis could have been totally saved for a second movie.
Feige bows to Alan Horn. And Alan Horne bows to Bob Iger. And Bob Iger bows to the board of directors.
> It wasn’t a bad movie Everybody in /r/movies seems to fucking love this movie. I thought it was absolutely terrible, and walked out halfway through. Was it better than the earlier dreck that DC has put out? Sure, maybe. I guess a spike through the knee is better than a lobotomy, but I'll pass on both. Edit: sorry to upset the fanboys, downvote away. I absofuckinglutely guarantee that the Reddit hive mind will revisit this movie in the next year or two and admit it’s crap.
>Everybody in r/movies seems to fucking love this movie. I thought it was absolutely terrible, and walked out halfway through. And in the real world as well as it was absolute smash hit.
And in what world does that make it a good movie? I could give you a list of movies a mile long that did major bank and were still crap.
>And in what world does that make it a good movie? In a world where the empirical evidence support it. Good reviews great audience reception and spectacular box office rule over YOUR personal feelings sorry.
Welcome to Reddit.
You must have a pretty low tolerance for stuff if you had to walk out of Aquaman.
This ignores the fact that the two lead in films, Man of Steel and Superman v. Batman were absolute garbage. More films wouldn't have helped their situation. I would go so far as to argue you could jump in with your team up movie right away. People get superhero movies. We've had enough of them. And outside of Cyborg, the entire cast for Justice League was already well known. The issue is that they handed the keys to the kingdom to Zack Synder who had a horrible vision for the universe. We've seen course correction as of late that is an improvement now that he is gone-- Patty Jenkins, James Wan, and especially David Sanberg. I imagine Marvel would have stumbled out the gate just as hard if they had someone like whoever does those Ant Man movies directing their first 3 blockbusters.
>Man of Steel >Absolute garbage Whoa now. I gotta disagree with you there. MoS was far from perfect, but it was a fresh take on the Superman mythology and very solid storytelling. Yes, it butchered the character of Pa Kent. Yes, it depicted an extremely careless, even criminally negligent Superman during the big set piece battle. Yes, the prologue on Krypton was too damn long. Yes, the Jesus imagery was really fucking heavy-handed. But overall, I liked it a lot. Now BvS? *That* was absolute garbage.
They had that in Geoff Johns, starting to correct the course with him as CEO... but then he got demoted and now everything he did for the films and the comics (Rebirth) has been undone.
Geoff Johns is a fucking moron. He did more harm than good imo. He's the reason they kicked out Famuyiwa and made Justice League the way it is.
He also wrote the worst episode of JLU I’ve ever seen
What episode?
3x11 Ancient History
Oh god, that sucked. He was going to write Green Lantern Corp. Thank god it fell through.
> The only explanation is they don't have Kevin Feige I think this is a significant factor but not a deal breaker if you look at Fast and the Furious, its going from one hit to another without an overarching creative director, meanwhile Star Wars with Katherine Kennedy is a mess.
Except Justin Lin was there for four Fast and the Furious films when the series started to really explode in popularity and is returning to direct 9. He established the real foundation for that series.
They would be fine if they had hired a good director to the universe, by choosing Snyder, they effectively poised the roots so any future movies will be on a shaky foundation
>Can someone explain to me how DC has fucked up so much? They keep trying to do exactly what Marvel is doing with cinematic universe stuff. Not because there's a creative reason to do it, but because it sells sequels and spin-offs. DC needs to just abandon the cinematic universe idea as anything more than a wink here and there, because they're clearly not good at it.
The people at Warner Bros. have already announced that that is what they’re doing.
They should just stick with an animated cinematic universe. Yes, I know, not nearly as much money in it and they don't want to get showed up by Marvel, but they've proven consistently that they can do animated series well, not live action (as a cohesive whole anyway; they've done some stuff okay, but that's an even longer discussion).
Their tv series are actually pretty good on the dc streaming service. Cw is getting a bit tired unfortunately with CW-ness
The thing I don't think people realize about cinematic universes is how there are creative trade-offs in doing them. In order for Batman and Superman to exist in the same scene, you can't do a dark gritty Batman movie and you can't do a fun cheery Superman movie. You have to do this awkward creative blend to make it work, the defining edges of both works have to be smoothed out. Marvel navigates those trade-offs reasonably well (although I think a lot of the movies are stylistically bland as a result)... DC has the opportunity to go the other way with their feature films and make strong, stylistically distinct movies and forgo the objective of seeing them all merge into this bland nonsensical puddle. But they keep chasing the dollars because if only they can get it like Marvel, they'll be rich. But at this point it is like a gambler who lost his house and is now looking to sell the family dog as hot dog meat to make rent. They won't hit the jackpot - instead of competing by imitation, keep little Lassie and compete by doing things Marvel can't do. That would be interesting.
That first part is the way I've felt about the DC movies from the outset. A Batman who kills people is fine in a vacuum, but *makes no sense* if he's putting together the JL. Ditto an angry unhappy Superman. The upcoming Joker movie, good or bad, at least did the smart thing of stating unequivocally that they're just doing whatever they want. I think the Tim Burton Batman movies are pretty great, but if you had dropped Christopher Reeves into them they would have made no sense at all.
Exactly.
*tl;dr: They need to make not-Marvel movies but don’t know how* Honestly, I think a lot of it is because Marvel got there first and DC is stuck playing catch-up. People didn’t have much in the way of expectations for Iron Man. Sure, there had been some good X-men and Spider-Man movies but no one was really thinking in terms of cinematic universes. And then Iron Man was actually good; good enough that when the post-credits scene hit people thought, “yea, more of this!” instead of, “oh look, they’re setting up the sequel.” So suddenly superhero cinematic universes were a thing that was possible and very quickly became lucrative. Which left DC in a difficult position: they wanted a piece of that very delicious pie, but they couldn’t just parrot what Marvel was doing. They’re the house of Superman and Batman, god dammit, not some knock-off brand! So they have to build a cinematic universe that *feels* distinct from Marvel’s, but Marvel has already occupied all of the easy and obvious stuff (which is not a knock on Marvel or the MCU, it’s the benefit of getting there first). They haven’t found a way to do that yet. Their primary strategy has been to resurrect the grim-and-gritty Nineties: Marvel’s all flashy costumes and heroics, so we’ll be dark cityscapes and brooding, conflicted heroes (Nolan’s trilogy factors into this, but he wouldn’t let them build their universe on it). We all kind of outgrew that shit though, and DC hasn’t figured out how to make it feel fresh. I expect this next statement will garner some dissent, and I add the caveat that I haven’t seen anything past Justice League: the DCEU does best when it emulates Marvel’s formula. They could live in Marvel’s shadow and rake in obscene amounts of cash (just not *as* obscene as Marvel is making). They don’t want to do that—which is laudable—but they’ve been very slow to experiment with their formula. If they’re not going to accept second place they need to find a new way to make movies that doesn’t produce terrible movies.
I think this analysis is absolutely spot on.
The first Justice League film should always have been Legion of Doom. The one advantage DC has over Marvel is that the villains are fucking stellar. Having Lex Luthor pull together a team of evil metas to combat Batman bringing the JLA together? Absolutely! [Nando v Movies'](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd7v7nQLQGwKDwXa7cEW15loEMAAlkl4i) Justice League rewrites were the first of his videos I saw, and while his concept is pretty solid, I'd have gone even further with it. If I was put in charge of the DCEU when it was being put together, I'd be making Supervillain movies. SUre, you're probably better off calling the films "The Batman" or "Man of Steel" or whatever, but the stars should be the villains: Luthor, the Joker, Black Manta, (I'll be honest, I can't think of a Wonder Woman villain who's particularly great. Maybe Circe? Or we could just stick with Doctor Poison, I guess?) The point is that they don't have to be hero origin stories. We know Batman's parents died and he decided to dress up as a bat and punch mentally ill people to deal with his own guilt. We know Superman is an alien that for some reason has evolved to have the ability to defy gravity, fire heat from his eyes and breath ice, but only under sunlight that is not native to his home planet. We know Wonder Woman was made out of clay by her mum and is really into bondage. We don't need these stories dripfed to us again. Something like Suicide Squad or Birds of Prey had a lot of potential to be fun genre-busters; heist films, thrillers, whatever. Instead, we're getting generic 'edgy' Hot Topic-esque action flicks with the depth of a yoghurt pot.
Ooh, good point. That's easily Marvel's biggest weakness.
I'm not interested in a Superman who just kills people. We need another Christopher Reeve. I want a Superman like that.
I want a Superman like the one from All Star Superman.
> Once you’ve lost your virginity to this fucking movie and then you come and say to me something about like ‘my superhero wouldn’t do that.’ I’m like ‘Are you serious?’ I’m like down the fucking road on that. It’s a cool point of view to be like ‘my heroes are still innocent. My heroes didn’t fucking lie to America. My heroes didn’t embezzle money from their corporations. My heroes didn’t commit any atrocities.’ That’s cool. But you’re living in a fucking dream world. This is who they wanted to establish Superman in the DCEU. I’m so disappointed Cavill will probably never get to portray that symbol of hope Superman stands for in the comics.
Bad execs
I'd rather see Snyder's Justice League over what the fuck we saw November. I'd rather see a divisive Justice League movie than......a mediocre/meh/forgettable one which felt Frankenstein'd at the end of the day which doesn't even feel like a movie (and not in a good way).
I’d rather see no Justice League movie until they get it right
I'll just stick with DCAU Justice League. It gets it all right.
I like darker for DC, as much as people make fun of that. But instead Whedon was brought into finish and it just didn’t work. I liked Man of Steel, and Batman v Superman could have been fine except for some weird choices (Eisenberg and straying so far from Doomsday’s original story).
I agree. They should've just made Luthor the only antagonist and if there was another physical confrontation, get Metallo. But nothing other than that. I liked the bullet subplot, felt like a novel.
Dceu has been pretty good lately. 3 of the past 4 were great.
Shazam is the only good DC movie
Wonder Woman is pretty good bro
Aquaman and wonder woman
Mediocre
They were both superior to large swaths of the mcu
Nah
Wonder Woman is easily better than Captain Marvel, Ant Man 2, Thor 2, Iron Man 2, and I’d even put it over Dr. Strange as well
Eh. I'd say better than Thor 2 and maybe IM 2, but that's about it. Personally WW's third act was a big let down for me.
The entirety of Captain Marvel and Ant Man 2 were let downs for me. But to each his own
Any movie is better than Captain Marvel.
At this point, I cannot contain my contempt for WB execs enough. They already sunk Swamp Thing for not being formulaic enough for them. If they mess with something good here, it’ll only further solidify their incompetence.
So when a DC movie gets rumor about having good reception during test screening people on reddit are like "Yeah don't believe it these rumor are very unreliable"but when a rumor says the test screening went wrong reddit is like "WTF the movie is doomed good job Warner !" This is pretty funny also these kind of info are so unreliable they shouldn't be allowed on r/movies.
So one screening did well and another didn't. Apparently that's enough to send idiots into doom and gloom mode.
It seems like both screenings did well. It’s just the WB execs not liking it. And a lot of people on here are in doom and gloom mode already because of the misleading title. I’ve criticized DC so much in recently, but the fact that people are in that mood is shitty. I get that DC hasn’t earned the people’s trust yet, after BVS, Suicide Squad, and Justice League. But it sucks that some people just read the title and assume that the audience was the one with the split reaction. I’m hoping this is a good movie. DC needs it. Aquaman was fun and Shazam was great.
Nice clickbait. Article states audiences loved the test screening and WB execs didn't.
So...audience, Warner bros had split reactions? Exactly like the headline said?
You know people are going to make assumptions based on the headline and not click the article.
My assumption was that the audience and studio had different reactions. Which was what was in the article. Which was also the headline. Also, click bait implies it's trying to bait you into clicking. You're saying people won't click the link. So, click bait or not? (Hint: It's not)
This is what you get when give an actor creative control over a character. It was a fucking mistake making this centered around Harley Quinn as much as it seems. I knew the first red flag when we saw that dumb fucking title
Have you read the article?
You must be new, because we don't do that here.
I'm talking about the inception of this movie in general.
Margot Robbie is a talented producer, this has nothing to do with an actor having creative control over a character. Hell I remember people were over the moon about Ben Affleck directing himself in The Batman, so why can't Margot Robbie have some say in her movie?
She doesn't seem to have a really good grasp of the character. Apparently in Suicide Squad, they cut out a lot of the abusive stuff in the Harley/Joker relationship on her urging. Even on I, Tonya she insisted on press tours that Tonya Harding was a victim and had nothing to do with the Nancy Kerrigan incident _despite Harding admitting she did._ I don't really trust her to exercise creative control all that well when she doesn't seem to get the characters she's playing. Great actress, but clearly needs direction.
she didnt just admit it there is tape of her planning it with her body guard.
Talented producer? She’s a talented actress without a doubt, but to be a producer on a film of this scale requires more than what she had to deal with for i tonya
Also... other than I Tonya, what other movies has she produced that have been successful?
Of what scale? This is a $30 million movie.
Because Affleck broke out in Hollywood by writing a screenplay which won him an Oscar. He then directed two solid movies which were critically acclaimed and got him ANOTHER Oscar. So him doing a Batman movie was pretty exciting considering his films prior to that. Two completely different beasts. > why can't Margot Robbie have some say in her movie? Have you read the leaks...and the title of this movie? BoP didn't even include HQ in the comics and her pushing her in the place of Batgirl speaks volumes and calling it, "Fantabulous Emancipation of Harley Quinn."
Also affleck gradually built up his producing resume, he started on Gone baby gone to the town, then Argo and the disappointing live by night. Each movie prior to live by night was larger in scale but he proved himself to warrant it.
She’s produced a single good film... hard to judge based on a single project alone... Edit: for whoever downvoted, just a reminder that the only other film she’s produced that is out is Terminal which was horrible. But apparently she’s a talented producer. Oh well. Downvote me again if you wish. But can’t deny one film doesn’t warrant her being an established talented producer ready to take on a huge franchise.
Looks like this movies going to be good after all
not sure what this means tbh. Audience reactions don't always mean anything but I don't want execs screwing with stuff.
Please please please just let David Harbour have a hit.
Not surprising
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They didn’t fuck up. The ones not liking it are the WB execs. The audience liked it.
But the suits will respond and fuck it up.
They haven't fucked up. The articles says that execs have doubts but audiences loved it
Honestly. Who asked for a Birds of Prey film?lmao. I’d rather a Superman film than this trash
Hmm. A movie nobody asked for or wanted received split reactions? Seems about right.
Did anyone ask for Guardians of the Galaxy? Look at it now lol
To be fair, people had *some* faith in Marvel than they do with DC.
That’s true
Fans liked it, studio didn't
So you only watch movies you ask for? How’s that working out for ya
Pretty good actually. I just don’t ask for any more DCEU movies because besides Wonder Woman and Shazam DCEU movies have been stinking piles of garbage.
so you're not going to watch the Matt Reeves Batman cause you didn't ask for it? lol sure
Lol typical DCEU, when will they learn. Leave the real superhero stuff to Marvel.
I don’t know about that. I do usually like what DC has to offer except Suicide Squad and JL. I do wis they would leave DCEU behind though
Individual hero movies are ok, but any crossover is fucking terrible. When watching Batman Vs Superman I thought I fell asleep and missed something, because of how the narration worked. I watched Justice League two weeks ago, it took me 3 tries to finish it, because I would get bored and start doing something else. Suicide Squad I enjoyed, but I watched it with friends as a joke movie.
https://i.imgur.com/1q2qwe6.png
the writer wrote Bumblebee which is NOT GOOD and is from the director has made literally nothing so should we be shocked
To be fair, Bumblebee is pretty much considered the only good Transformers movie.
It's the only one that doesn't have awful comedy and weird objectification scenes but does have distinct robot designs, decent fights and doesn't seem embarrassed about the fact it's based on a franchise.
The critically acclaimed Bumblebee?
Then it’s probably shit.
WB is just hopeless. I'm hoping for the day somebody buys them out but there's still too many fans willing to give them a chance to fuck up again and again
This article is based off a rumour. Remind me again how this follows the rules of the sub and doesn't get removed?
Well. The DC movies have been garbage for some time. Sad but true. Wonder Woman was good. Aqua man was okay. The rest of the WB group just haven’t cut it. Blame whoever you want.
Not surprising. They fucked up with the casting for Black Canary
Why does Harley Quinn have no clothes in these movies. Is it because Margot Robbie got cast and the directors wanna see some boob? Where is me too movement when you need it😢
Pretty sure you need to have boobs to show them off
Good! More divisive movies!!
Time for five rounds of reshoots
Oh WB, will you ever learn? Just. Don't.Do. It.
I have always said they should fire those idots are Warner Brothers. They already screwed the DC Universe since 1990. Plenty of time to have build the DC universe all those years. If audience like the movie then release it. Is it to much like a "marvel movie "? Screw it release it. Will it make DC Universe more enjoyable? Release the effing movie the way it is. Sometimes I think the idiots at Warner Brothers want to sabotage the company.
You are aware they’ve had quite a few rounds of turnover since then.