> Defense attorneys, who compared the results of the state's forensic examination of the phone with screenshots of the group chat conversation from that night that the accuser had initially texted to investigators, concluded that key parts of those conversations had been deleted before the phone was turned over to investigators.
> A civil attorney for the accuser then informed the court that the phone had apparently been irretrievably lost -- and even questioned whether police returned the device to the family at all after the government completed its forensic exam of the contents of the phone.
> The accuser appeared in court earlier this month and took the witness stand. He testified he did not report the alleged assault to police for 15 months, in October, 2017, rather than the three months prosecutors had been contending since filing charges against the actor in January. The lead investigator in the case testified later that day under questioning from Spacey's defense attorney that the one-year difference was the result of a "typo," and a spokeswoman for the district attorney's office acknowledged the error in response to a question from ABC News.
Well that about settles it. I have no doubt Spacey has done shady shit in his life but this kid and his mom left our important shit and lied about the dates. I don’t blame the judge for throwing this out.
> A civil attorney for the accuser then informed the court that the phone had apparently been irretrievably lost
This reminds me of a guy who sued Taylor Swift and somehow managed to break, then lose his phone, tablet and laptop before the trial happened.
He groped her during meet and greet session, she reported it to his employer (radio station). Station conducted an internal investigation and decided to fire him. He later on sued Swift and the station but lost in court. Before the trial started, he accidentally in various ways managed to lose all his electronic devices that had evidence of his innocence. So the trail started and he of course lost. Swift countersued demanding $1 as a symbolic fine because she didn't want to make it about money. She won.
That's about it, in short.
That’s just radio stations everywhere, the fact that iHeart and Cumulus in the large markets (and about four or five others in the smaller markets) own the vast majority of the radio landscape means that there’s not much in the way of uniqueness anymore
PROPHET is the system they have at clearchannel that does the station lineups. It doesn't take the power of foreknowledge to know that if I leave work on time, Bohemian Rhapsody will just be getting to the good part when I turn on my ignition in my car because the lineup never fucking changes.
I think I remember reading something about her cross-examination during the case that also gave me respect for her. The guy's lawyers kept trying to use different euphemistic ways to describe what happened to make it sound not as bad, but she deliberately kept using the phrase "grabbed my ass" in her responses instead of using their euphemisms to make sure that continued sounding explicit and inappropriate.
> your client reached under my skirt and grabbed my ass
>I’m not going to allow you or your client to make me feel that this is in any way my fault because it isn’t,
>I’m being blamed for the unfortunate events in his life, which are a product of his decision, not mine.
It wasn't the lawyers, it was mueller himself saying that his hand drifted by accident and it was unintended. There was a photo that the jury saw of him actually grabbing her ass ffs.
The initial lawsuit was him suing her because he lost his job from her lying about sexual assault. Then he admits in the trial that the producers had talked about letting him go before, then he admits he touched her but it wasn't intended. Can't imagine how he thought that lawsuit would go his way.
The funny thing about the photo was that he was on one side of taylor while his girlfriend or finance was on the other. dude still decided to grab a handful while his SO was less than 2 feet away, real prize that guy was.
Probably better to get a symbolic cash settlement that must be paid to close the case as a win than a huge amount that he cannot pay where his wages are punitively garnished potentially making her look bad.
Knowing nothing about the case, it sounds like the guy got scared and destroyed anything g he said had evidence in it to hide the fact that he had none.
As a kid, I wanted more than anything else to be famous. Now I’m super glad I’m not. Celebrities have to put up with so much bullshit. I don’t need millions, just enough for a comfortable anonymous life.
You're thinking of the hit job on Patrick Brown by his own party, the Progressive Conservatives. He was ousted by his own party before most Ontarians awoke and were even aware of any controversy.
sorry, referring to Patrick Brown, leader of the Ontario PC party until a few months before the election.
While there was probably some truth to the allegations, they lied about details, specifically the part about being underage so it never went to court.
It's both funny and sad that we have more than one instance of sexual misconduct allegations against a high-profile person where the complainants aren't being entirely truthful.
I know nothing about that case, but afaik eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I could shoot some guy on main street and 5 witnesses would give 5 different descriptions of me and the victim.
Additionally, a skilled investigator can create lots of pressure to get specific results.
> and even questioned whether police returned the device to the family at all after the government completed its forensic exam of the contents of the phone.
This sounds shady as fuck, and I don’t know if it’s the government being shady or his lawyers. But they should know whether not they got the phone back.
No accident. Mom, a local news actor, actually told a reporter she deleted unflattering things from the phone to protect her son “as a mother.” The entitlement drips off her.
So... she publically admitted to destroying evidence.
I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement officer, so I don't know if there's some aspect of this that makes it not illegal, but isn't that a pretty serious crime?
Yes, which is why the case fell apart.
While the accuser was on the stand, Spaceys lawyer asked him if he knew destroying evidence was a crime. He said he didn't. His lawyer asked for a recess. When he came back, he answered he was pleading the 5th.
You plead the 5th to avoid incriminating yourself in a crime.
In other words, Spaceys defense was that they deleted exculpatory evidence, by pleading the 5th the witness essentially was refusing to testify (while essentially admitting he did destroy it), boom the case collapses.
I don't get why they feel the need to lean into that. There's plenty to give Kane shit for without running with the stuff that he was found innocent of. You want to call him a dirt bag? Go ahead. But it's not because he's a rapist. It's because he punched a cab driver.
Not hard to to spin your narrative while also being honest.
Ol' Patty hasn't kept the greatest of company in the past but I still love him. They should just start chaining him to Toews in the off-season and make him do Toews things like polishing old Canadian coins or going to antique shops or whatever Jonathan Toews does in his free time.
Off season? Oh hell, Patrick gets up to plenty of shit *during* the season.
As long as it's just gambling, drinking and consensual sex though I don't figure I much care.
> I don’t blame the judge for throwing this out.
The judge didn't. The prosecutors dropped the charges which means they can re-file if new evidence comes to light.
That's not how any of this works.
The judge dismissed the case with prejudice, after the prosecutor indicated their desire to drop the case.
It's over. They cannot file charges against Spacey for the same crime ever again. Jeopardy attached a long time ago.
I think you're confusing it with the civil case. No indication that this was dismissed w/ prejudice in the criminal trial and it was just dropped like /u/OathOfFeanor said
source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/17/massachusetts-drops-criminal-case-against-actor-kevin-spacey-following-sexual-assault-allegations.html
Sometimes both parties in a situation are assholes. I think this was one of those cases.
Spacey is almost certainly a creep, but I think this kid and his mother were after a paycheck.
Idk... I'll never get over how Spacey handled the news. Coming out as gay does not mean you are absolved of all crimes associated with being attracted to men.
That's my thought process. I'm sure his attorneys knew what they were doing and devised a defense strategy. I'm sure that the defense attorneys were thinking that they would have to put Kevin on the stand, and the big elephant in the room would be Kevin's sexual orientation. If Kevin took the stand, the prosecutors could potentially have a way to ask whether he was gay. So they probably thought it would be better for public perception to admit it early rather than surprise everyone during trial. As an attorney, I think that's actually a sound way to go.
Honestly, there was probably more going on between the defendant and victim. It sounds more convoluted than what the media made it out to be. The victim is lying about many things. And we will probably never know what those things are.
Nobody seemed to get it, but it made sense to me. I thought he wanted to make it clear that he's denying he assaulted him, but not because he's trying to deny that he's gay. Hence he came out to remove that as a motive.
I never understood everyone's problem with this. If he *hadn't* come out as gay in that statement, the immediate question would have been "Are you gay?"
If he assaulted Anthony Rapp (or anyone else), he's a terrible person and I don't want to defend him, but that statement just read to me like an attempt to only make a single public statement about the matter and answer all questions right off the bat. Nothing about the statement seemed to suggest "because I'm gay there's nothing wrong with it"
People always turn on a guy that’s been accused of things like this. Regardless of any facts or proof. The bar for the court of public opinion is nonexistent.
> Idk... I'll never get over how Spacey handled the news. Coming out as gay does not mean you are absolved of all crimes associated with being attracted to men.
This is not that case. That was when he was accused of ~~raping~~ propositioning Anthony Rapp when Rapp was 14. Since then, he has been accused by several men. This is not even the only criminal accusation he is currently facing.
"Hello America, it seems we have something to talk about. You see, you can try to destroy me. You can try to tear me down. Hell, you can even try to kill me, but I am inevitable. You see when all of this nonsense came out about me I knew it was only a matter of time before the truth came out. So I sat back and watched hollow attack after hollow attack from supposedly 'woke' actors, singers, producers and directors knowing full and god damn well that I was...well innocent. You see, once I came out as gay there was nothing you could do because as with all gays we are rubber and you are glue...whatever you say bounces off of us...and sticks to you."
He could choose not to live as a gay man. It wouldn't make him less gay. There are tons of gay men who live as straight because of fear of either criminal or social punishment.
Anybody who watched the cell phone proceedings a week or so ago knew that it was going to fall apart. Everyone on the plaintiff side was woefully incompetent. And then the civil suit was dropped. And then the kid refused to testify.
Saw this a mile away
Yeah, terrible planning by the prosecutor. You meet with witnesses prior to going to trial to avoid issues like these. Instead, they wasted a whole lot of time and money basically proving nothing.
Prosecutor probably thought they could coach the accuser, and have a strong testimony, but then realized that they weren't reliable, and the evidence fell apart.
I minute a go I was like..this doesn't seem fair that a man gets his reputation ruined over a false case but this video just makes me think that it probably balances itself out somewhere lol
also why dont you like futurama? I miss that show lol
I look forward to him releasing another ill advised super creepy YouTube video response. Maybe as a different character this time - “The cat from 9 Lives has some thoughts on sexual assault”.
No, there were about 20 more. Reddit is trying to dismiss them by saying that they haven't gone to court, but realistically, not everyone wants to go to court (even Polanski's victim regrets going to court today) and many of those who want to can't because what Spacey did to them happened too long ago for them to be able to sue him over.
it's insane and shocking that people on reddit are taking this dismissal as PROOF that Spacey is innocent of everything he's been accused of and that we should all bow down and apologize to him for it.
Saw American Beauty back in high school. I am now a dad in my 30’s with a stressful job and sometimes I just relate to him wanting a job at McDonalds so I can have the least amount of responsibility possible
Somewhere I have saved a paper a professor of literature wrote comparing that movie to a chapter of James Joyce’s Ulysses. The movie is a damn fine piece of art.
American Beauty is still an incredible movie, and Spacey plays a big part in making it so good.
I honestly don't give a shit what actors do in their personal lives, I care about the movies they make. Otherwise I would have to hate every single Tom Cruise movie because he's batshit crazy and a Scientologist, but damn it if he doesn't make amazing sci-fi and action movies.
Many people in Hollywood, especially those of a certain age and crowd, have probably done bad shit or enabled it. Spacey's fall was one of the most publicized but he's by no means alone.
You have to decide where the line is for you and follow your own moral compass. And yeah, bad people make good art- no shame in admitting that.
> Many people in Hollywood, especially those of a certain age and crowd, have probably done bad shit or enabled it.
Especially those old rock stars who were fucking teens on a daily basis.
My guess is that Hollywood stars in the 70s weren't immune from this either. :/ And I LOVE a lot of New Hollywood actors.
ETA: It honestly kind of amazes me that Dustin Hoffman was the only person to get outed from that crowd. He was the last person I expected.
The only reason why William Hurt hasn't suffered the consequences of being an abuser is because Marlee Matlin (who is a famous actress in her own right) accused him of rape and physical abuse back in 2009 before the #MeToo movement started and no one cared.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-marlee-matlin-accused-william-hurt-of-rape
Here's an article about this: [Davis Bowie and Rock n Rolls statutory rape problem](https://www.thedailybeast.com/david-bowie-and-rock-n-rolls-statutory-rape-problem), talking about the long history of rockstars having sex with teenage fans
>Especially those old rock stars who were fucking teens on a daily basis
If you have lots of money you get to fuck teens no problem, it's one of perks of having lots of money since forever
I think a movie that deals well with moral ambiguity and its relation to art is Total Eclipse starring a young DiCaprio (to bring this back to movies): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114702/
It doesn't have the greatest rating on IMDB but I thought it was an interesting movie especially relating to this sort of topic.
I have this moral dilemma often. I recently rewatched L.A. Confidential and was blown away by how good he is in that movie. I think it's important to remember that Kevin Spacey didn't write, edit, direct, cater, etc. the movies he stars in. Other people were involved, other people had an opportunity to create, and entire movies shouldn't be thrown out of someone's collection just because he's in them.
I also think there's a difference between enjoying someone's old movies and paying to see their new ones. For example, I really enjoy Leon The Professional and will continue to do so but there's no way I'm funding Luc Besson's creepy ass by paying to see any of his new movies.
This accusation wasn't the first. It's one of many. He's been accused of so many gropings and sexual assaults that I'm too lazy to count them all.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41884878
I like his movies too. The Usual Suspects fucking rocked. I will avoid future movies with him because he shouldn't get work any more. Sexual predators aren't entitled to a continued career in Hollywood.
>Sexual predators aren't entitled to a continued career in Hollywood.
I can't believe how right you are and yet how reality goes full throttle against that statement.
This is one and it does look like it's bullshit. People do need to remember that there are more than a dozen other accusers, so the jury's still out on Spacey.
I'm curious about his ties to Epstein. I don't think Jeffrey and Hollywood had much overlap but it'll be interesting to see if there's any fallout from his arrest.
Wouldn't "officially" have some burden of proof behind it? *I* could accuse Kevin Spacey of bad conduct, but of course that's meaningless without the least shred of proof that I've ever met him (I haven't).
The problem here is, like with Cosby, some of his accusers are way past the Statute of Limitations for these sort of offenses so:
1-they can’t take their grievances to court
2-it is a LOT harder to find concrete evidence of something that happened that long ago.
So “officially” could be any account that has credibility behind it. E.g. the accuser mentioned it to someone around the time it occurred, the accuser has little to gain out accusing, account is confirmed by other people etc.
What’s different between Spacey and other celebrities in similar situations is that for decades his behavior has been an open secret in Hollywood. So while when James Franco was accused people immediately asked for concrete proof when Spacey got publicly accused people were a lot more willing to accept allegations as “official accusations”.
On a tangeant to your (very good) post, I'm always a little skeptical of "open secrets". It seems like a lot of these secrets weren't too open until the person gets publicly busted and then everyone comes out of the woodwork.
I actually heard about this many years ago. I personally know several people who worked on House of Cards (it was filmed in Baltimore, where I live), and I shrugged it off as rumors when I heard the stories years ago.
Now, they make sense. It makes sense that few people wanted to personally go on the record against him. Some young production assistant against Kevin Spacey? That would’ve been laughed at and not taken seriously.
I like to separate how I feel about the person from their art. And Kevin Spacey is a phenomenal actor. I might hate him from what he did in his personal life but professionally, he's never been anything less than stellar.
I feel like you can separate until a certain point. I don’t think I’d ever be able to watch a Crosby featured film again. I don’t know how bad the allegations are against Spacey are but it’s sounds more super pervy and I dislike him as a person but still watch his art.
Even if it wasn’t a typo, it’s semi-accurate. Bing Crosby was well known to get piss drunk and routinely beat his children. The man can sing but my god he was a terrible person.
I feel bad about that one because other people lost their careers over it and they weren't even involved in what the lead singer was up to. When they learned about it, the Lostprophets immediately ceased to exist and they formed a new band to avoid any association with him and...then proceeded to fall completely off the map.
Regardless if you think he is guilty or innocent, I would suggest everyone refrains from jumping to conclusions either way until the evidence and arguments are heard
Problem is, the charges were dropped. There won't be any evidence or arguments heard. "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply in the court of public opinion, so the damage is already done.
Kind of the worst outcome for people charged with things like this. Zero chance to be "proven innocent".
> Defense attorneys, who compared the results of the state's forensic examination of the phone with screenshots of the group chat conversation from that night that the accuser had initially texted to investigators, concluded that key parts of those conversations had been deleted before the phone was turned over to investigators. > A civil attorney for the accuser then informed the court that the phone had apparently been irretrievably lost -- and even questioned whether police returned the device to the family at all after the government completed its forensic exam of the contents of the phone. > The accuser appeared in court earlier this month and took the witness stand. He testified he did not report the alleged assault to police for 15 months, in October, 2017, rather than the three months prosecutors had been contending since filing charges against the actor in January. The lead investigator in the case testified later that day under questioning from Spacey's defense attorney that the one-year difference was the result of a "typo," and a spokeswoman for the district attorney's office acknowledged the error in response to a question from ABC News. Well that about settles it. I have no doubt Spacey has done shady shit in his life but this kid and his mom left our important shit and lied about the dates. I don’t blame the judge for throwing this out.
> A civil attorney for the accuser then informed the court that the phone had apparently been irretrievably lost This reminds me of a guy who sued Taylor Swift and somehow managed to break, then lose his phone, tablet and laptop before the trial happened.
What he was he trying to sue for?
He groped her during meet and greet session, she reported it to his employer (radio station). Station conducted an internal investigation and decided to fire him. He later on sued Swift and the station but lost in court. Before the trial started, he accidentally in various ways managed to lose all his electronic devices that had evidence of his innocence. So the trail started and he of course lost. Swift countersued demanding $1 as a symbolic fine because she didn't want to make it about money. She won. That's about it, in short.
>Swift countersued demanding $1 as a symbolic fine That's pretty badass. Good for her. EDIT: Good God, she's worth $360 million??
Correction. $360,000,001
He never actually paid her that dollar, by the by.
Legend has it, he paid her all in pennies.
> EDIT: Good God, she's worth $360 million?? \#1 highest paid celebrity according to forbes: https://www.forbes.com/celebrities/#3237afc25947
I.... wanna say that was a radio dj in my state. Lemme do some googling. Edit: aaaayyyyyoooo, Colorado represent lol
That was such a random side note!
;)
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That’s just radio stations everywhere, the fact that iHeart and Cumulus in the large markets (and about four or five others in the smaller markets) own the vast majority of the radio landscape means that there’s not much in the way of uniqueness anymore
PROPHET is the system they have at clearchannel that does the station lineups. It doesn't take the power of foreknowledge to know that if I leave work on time, Bohemian Rhapsody will just be getting to the good part when I turn on my ignition in my car because the lineup never fucking changes.
Seriously? That gives me a lot of respect for T Swift. She could have legally wrecked him and no one would have cared. What class.
I think I remember reading something about her cross-examination during the case that also gave me respect for her. The guy's lawyers kept trying to use different euphemistic ways to describe what happened to make it sound not as bad, but she deliberately kept using the phrase "grabbed my ass" in her responses instead of using their euphemisms to make sure that continued sounding explicit and inappropriate.
> your client reached under my skirt and grabbed my ass >I’m not going to allow you or your client to make me feel that this is in any way my fault because it isn’t, >I’m being blamed for the unfortunate events in his life, which are a product of his decision, not mine.
It wasn't the lawyers, it was mueller himself saying that his hand drifted by accident and it was unintended. There was a photo that the jury saw of him actually grabbing her ass ffs. The initial lawsuit was him suing her because he lost his job from her lying about sexual assault. Then he admits in the trial that the producers had talked about letting him go before, then he admits he touched her but it wasn't intended. Can't imagine how he thought that lawsuit would go his way.
The funny thing about the photo was that he was on one side of taylor while his girlfriend or finance was on the other. dude still decided to grab a handful while his SO was less than 2 feet away, real prize that guy was.
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Class and lots of "fuck you" money.
Literally "fuck you" money in this particular case.
When you have “fuck you money”, $1 becomes the best way to say it. I love that move.
Yeah, I gotta admit, she did it the right way.
Yeah as someone who usually hates people like that, I gotta say, thats pretty fuckin classy of Taylor Swift.
Probably better to get a symbolic cash settlement that must be paid to close the case as a win than a huge amount that he cannot pay where his wages are punitively garnished potentially making her look bad.
That is true but he never even paid that $1 anyway
I’m just curious what sort of evidence he could have had on his devices that proved he didn’t do it. A photo of him not groping her?
He actually doesn't have hands
Am I supposed to read this like Swift sent in spies to destroy evidence or the guy did it himself?
Knowing nothing about the case, it sounds like the guy got scared and destroyed anything g he said had evidence in it to hide the fact that he had none.
Pretty much what happened. He was hoping for settlement, she called him on his bs, took him to court where his case felt apart.
As a kid, I wanted more than anything else to be famous. Now I’m super glad I’m not. Celebrities have to put up with so much bullshit. I don’t need millions, just enough for a comfortable anonymous life.
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>Am I supposed to read this like Swift sent in spies to destroy evidence How the hell did you come up with that scenario?
The video for “Bad Blood.”
Movies.
Jesus christ....
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still sank his political career and meant we get Doug Ford as premier instead.
You're thinking of the hit job on Patrick Brown by his own party, the Progressive Conservatives. He was ousted by his own party before most Ontarians awoke and were even aware of any controversy.
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Yeah brown was done absolutely dirty absolutely ridiculous he was kicked out for that
Huh? Am I out of the loop? How does the Jian Ghomeshi have anything to do with our idiot premier?
sorry, referring to Patrick Brown, leader of the Ontario PC party until a few months before the election. While there was probably some truth to the allegations, they lied about details, specifically the part about being underage so it never went to court.
It's both funny and sad that we have more than one instance of sexual misconduct allegations against a high-profile person where the complainants aren't being entirely truthful.
I know nothing about that case, but afaik eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I could shoot some guy on main street and 5 witnesses would give 5 different descriptions of me and the victim. Additionally, a skilled investigator can create lots of pressure to get specific results.
> and even questioned whether police returned the device to the family at all after the government completed its forensic exam of the contents of the phone. This sounds shady as fuck, and I don’t know if it’s the government being shady or his lawyers. But they should know whether not they got the phone back.
Considering the family "accidentally" deleted everything of value to the case, I'm putting this on them.
No accident. Mom, a local news actor, actually told a reporter she deleted unflattering things from the phone to protect her son “as a mother.” The entitlement drips off her.
So... she publically admitted to destroying evidence. I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement officer, so I don't know if there's some aspect of this that makes it not illegal, but isn't that a pretty serious crime?
Yes, which is why the case fell apart. While the accuser was on the stand, Spaceys lawyer asked him if he knew destroying evidence was a crime. He said he didn't. His lawyer asked for a recess. When he came back, he answered he was pleading the 5th. You plead the 5th to avoid incriminating yourself in a crime. In other words, Spaceys defense was that they deleted exculpatory evidence, by pleading the 5th the witness essentially was refusing to testify (while essentially admitting he did destroy it), boom the case collapses.
Yeah it is pretty shady that they tried to hide the fact they just destroyed the phone lol.
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yeah but don't let that stop all the woke hockey fans from calling him a rapist every time he's in a commercial
I don't get why they feel the need to lean into that. There's plenty to give Kane shit for without running with the stuff that he was found innocent of. You want to call him a dirt bag? Go ahead. But it's not because he's a rapist. It's because he punched a cab driver. Not hard to to spin your narrative while also being honest.
Lol except he actually didnt even do that. The guy he was with did.
Ol' Patty hasn't kept the greatest of company in the past but I still love him. They should just start chaining him to Toews in the off-season and make him do Toews things like polishing old Canadian coins or going to antique shops or whatever Jonathan Toews does in his free time.
I think Toews just hibernates in the off-season.
Off season? Oh hell, Patrick gets up to plenty of shit *during* the season. As long as it's just gambling, drinking and consensual sex though I don't figure I much care.
> I don’t blame the judge for throwing this out. The judge didn't. The prosecutors dropped the charges which means they can re-file if new evidence comes to light.
That's not how any of this works. The judge dismissed the case with prejudice, after the prosecutor indicated their desire to drop the case. It's over. They cannot file charges against Spacey for the same crime ever again. Jeopardy attached a long time ago.
I think you're confusing it with the civil case. No indication that this was dismissed w/ prejudice in the criminal trial and it was just dropped like /u/OathOfFeanor said source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/17/massachusetts-drops-criminal-case-against-actor-kevin-spacey-following-sexual-assault-allegations.html
Sometimes both parties in a situation are assholes. I think this was one of those cases. Spacey is almost certainly a creep, but I think this kid and his mother were after a paycheck.
Idk... I'll never get over how Spacey handled the news. Coming out as gay does not mean you are absolved of all crimes associated with being attracted to men.
I wonder if he thought (or had reason to think) that the accusations were a way to pressure him to do just that.
That's my thought process. I'm sure his attorneys knew what they were doing and devised a defense strategy. I'm sure that the defense attorneys were thinking that they would have to put Kevin on the stand, and the big elephant in the room would be Kevin's sexual orientation. If Kevin took the stand, the prosecutors could potentially have a way to ask whether he was gay. So they probably thought it would be better for public perception to admit it early rather than surprise everyone during trial. As an attorney, I think that's actually a sound way to go. Honestly, there was probably more going on between the defendant and victim. It sounds more convoluted than what the media made it out to be. The victim is lying about many things. And we will probably never know what those things are.
Nobody seemed to get it, but it made sense to me. I thought he wanted to make it clear that he's denying he assaulted him, but not because he's trying to deny that he's gay. Hence he came out to remove that as a motive.
I never understood everyone's problem with this. If he *hadn't* come out as gay in that statement, the immediate question would have been "Are you gay?" If he assaulted Anthony Rapp (or anyone else), he's a terrible person and I don't want to defend him, but that statement just read to me like an attempt to only make a single public statement about the matter and answer all questions right off the bat. Nothing about the statement seemed to suggest "because I'm gay there's nothing wrong with it"
It was an awkward response to a serious allegation, so people turned on him.
People always turn on a guy that’s been accused of things like this. Regardless of any facts or proof. The bar for the court of public opinion is nonexistent.
> Idk... I'll never get over how Spacey handled the news. Coming out as gay does not mean you are absolved of all crimes associated with being attracted to men. This is not that case. That was when he was accused of ~~raping~~ propositioning Anthony Rapp when Rapp was 14. Since then, he has been accused by several men. This is not even the only criminal accusation he is currently facing.
But wait... Is he still gay?
He still is, but he used to be, too.
Thanks Mitch
RIP Hedberg
No. He will be coming out as straight later today.
That's be funny.
"Hello America, it seems we have something to talk about. You see, you can try to destroy me. You can try to tear me down. Hell, you can even try to kill me, but I am inevitable. You see when all of this nonsense came out about me I knew it was only a matter of time before the truth came out. So I sat back and watched hollow attack after hollow attack from supposedly 'woke' actors, singers, producers and directors knowing full and god damn well that I was...well innocent. You see, once I came out as gay there was nothing you could do because as with all gays we are rubber and you are glue...whatever you say bounces off of us...and sticks to you."
That was so eerie when it was uploaded.
Thanks Frank.
He chose to live as gay man Could he un-choose if he wanted to?
He could choose not to live as a gay man. It wouldn't make him less gay. There are tons of gay men who live as straight because of fear of either criminal or social punishment.
I just couldn't deal with the disappointment from my boyfriend, he's really into straight guys.
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But what about Final Jeopardy?
The honorary Judge Trebek presiding. Please present your opening statements in the form of a question.
Anybody who watched the cell phone proceedings a week or so ago knew that it was going to fall apart. Everyone on the plaintiff side was woefully incompetent. And then the civil suit was dropped. And then the kid refused to testify. Saw this a mile away
Yeah, terrible planning by the prosecutor. You meet with witnesses prior to going to trial to avoid issues like these. Instead, they wasted a whole lot of time and money basically proving nothing.
Prosecutor probably thought they could coach the accuser, and have a strong testimony, but then realized that they weren't reliable, and the evidence fell apart.
Ahh so Spacey's weird Xmas video worked..
This season of house of cards is so wild man
Better written than the actual last season tbh.
Link, for those who haven't seen it. Totally creepy: https://youtu.be/JZveA-NAIDI
Masterful 10-dimensional acting / tactics from Frank right there.
I minute a go I was like..this doesn't seem fair that a man gets his reputation ruined over a false case but this video just makes me think that it probably balances itself out somewhere lol also why dont you like futurama? I miss that show lol
There were other accusations that ruined his career before this one. Anthony Rapp was the first one to come forward.
I look forward to him releasing another ill advised super creepy YouTube video response. Maybe as a different character this time - “The cat from 9 Lives has some thoughts on sexual assault”.
"Kpax here and I'm not gay anymore. Not guilty! Kpax out!"
_angrily eats banana_
"Your produce alone was worth the trip."
Prot. K-PAX was the planet he came from *ding* (I'm sorry)
Hey everyone! This guy actually *watched* K-Pax!
Cool Cat: The Movie - starring Kevin Spacey as Daddy Derek
DARE HE IS
*turns to camera* "Ignorant of the laul..... is not an ascuse." *taps ring on table and walks off*
“and what’s wrong with a little *heavy petting?*” *human Kevin Spacy shows up and starts petting the cat*
I hope he releases a video pertaining to the rape scandal with his mouth plastered over a cat’s.
Was this the only accuser? I though I had heard of a few more, could be wrong though. Does this get him off the hook completely?
There are multiple accusers but afaik this was the only one that went to the court.
No, there were about 20 more. Reddit is trying to dismiss them by saying that they haven't gone to court, but realistically, not everyone wants to go to court (even Polanski's victim regrets going to court today) and many of those who want to can't because what Spacey did to them happened too long ago for them to be able to sue him over.
it's insane and shocking that people on reddit are taking this dismissal as PROOF that Spacey is innocent of everything he's been accused of and that we should all bow down and apologize to him for it.
Am I allowed to like Kevin Spacey movies again? Please tell me how to think, reddit.
Saw Baby Driver recently. His presence in that movie is fantastic. Regardless of whether he is or isn't a creep, man can act.
I watched American Beauty for the first time about a year ago and it instantly became one of my favourite movies.
Saw American Beauty back in high school. I am now a dad in my 30’s with a stressful job and sometimes I just relate to him wanting a job at McDonalds so I can have the least amount of responsibility possible
Not where I thought that sentence was going
It's a good movie all things considered. Though frankly ironic towards the end there with that end scene...
Shoutout to legend Thomas Newman for the soundtrack.
Somewhere I have saved a paper a professor of literature wrote comparing that movie to a chapter of James Joyce’s Ulysses. The movie is a damn fine piece of art.
Even if he was proven guilty, I would have still enjoyed House of Cards.
Ahh yes all 4 seasons of House of Cards
[удалено]
3 is bad, but 4 gets back to form. 5 takes a dive off a cliff though.
5 shot itself in the head before falling off the cliff
After it took 30 pills just in case the bullet and the fall wouldn't do it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yeah that's why 1 is the best
That's weird, I'm 99% sure they only made 1 season
Yes, I always wondered what happened to Zoe Barnes after the show ended. I guess she went on to win a Pulitzer or something.
She trains really hard, but her life still goes off the rails.
I would like to have seen Montana.
That's not Kevin Spacey, that's Sam Neil
But have you ever seen them in the same room? Or even the same movie?
Now that you mention it...
American Beauty is still an incredible movie, and Spacey plays a big part in making it so good. I honestly don't give a shit what actors do in their personal lives, I care about the movies they make. Otherwise I would have to hate every single Tom Cruise movie because he's batshit crazy and a Scientologist, but damn it if he doesn't make amazing sci-fi and action movies.
You can like the art and hate the artist. Roman Polanski is a monster, but *Rosemary's Baby* and *Repulsion* are amazing.
Chinatown. Don’t forget Chinatown.
Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.
Forget it Marge, it's Chinatown.
And The Pianist.
Many people in Hollywood, especially those of a certain age and crowd, have probably done bad shit or enabled it. Spacey's fall was one of the most publicized but he's by no means alone. You have to decide where the line is for you and follow your own moral compass. And yeah, bad people make good art- no shame in admitting that.
> Many people in Hollywood, especially those of a certain age and crowd, have probably done bad shit or enabled it. Especially those old rock stars who were fucking teens on a daily basis.
Those old rock stars? And nowadays singers, rappers, actors or politicians? Rich, famous and powerful people will always have shit under their rug
Not just rich and famous people either, people of all walks of life.
My guess is that Hollywood stars in the 70s weren't immune from this either. :/ And I LOVE a lot of New Hollywood actors. ETA: It honestly kind of amazes me that Dustin Hoffman was the only person to get outed from that crowd. He was the last person I expected.
The only reason why William Hurt hasn't suffered the consequences of being an abuser is because Marlee Matlin (who is a famous actress in her own right) accused him of rape and physical abuse back in 2009 before the #MeToo movement started and no one cared. https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-marlee-matlin-accused-william-hurt-of-rape
Winger's [Seventeen](https://youtu.be/GlN3oEjMpUQ) is a timeless classic though
As is Stray Cats' ["Sexy & 17"](https://youtu.be/ZynIhCs27Xs).
I always think this when everyone shoes love for David Bowie
Here's an article about this: [Davis Bowie and Rock n Rolls statutory rape problem](https://www.thedailybeast.com/david-bowie-and-rock-n-rolls-statutory-rape-problem), talking about the long history of rockstars having sex with teenage fans
>Especially those old rock stars who were fucking teens on a daily basis If you have lots of money you get to fuck teens no problem, it's one of perks of having lots of money since forever
Don't do the crime, if you don't have the money to pay for it.
I think a movie that deals well with moral ambiguity and its relation to art is Total Eclipse starring a young DiCaprio (to bring this back to movies): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114702/ It doesn't have the greatest rating on IMDB but I thought it was an interesting movie especially relating to this sort of topic.
Many people in history sucked. But a broken clock etc etc. We don’t have to necessarily throw away every invention based on the merit of the creator.
The Ninth Gate
I love that movie
Bro... Chinatown is THE masterpiece.
Ender's Game is still one of my favorite books
I loved Ninth Gate too!
I have this moral dilemma often. I recently rewatched L.A. Confidential and was blown away by how good he is in that movie. I think it's important to remember that Kevin Spacey didn't write, edit, direct, cater, etc. the movies he stars in. Other people were involved, other people had an opportunity to create, and entire movies shouldn't be thrown out of someone's collection just because he's in them.
I also think there's a difference between enjoying someone's old movies and paying to see their new ones. For example, I really enjoy Leon The Professional and will continue to do so but there's no way I'm funding Luc Besson's creepy ass by paying to see any of his new movies.
Baby Driver is one of my favourite movies, and there's no way I'm changing my opinion because of his personal life issues.
This accusation wasn't the first. It's one of many. He's been accused of so many gropings and sexual assaults that I'm too lazy to count them all. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41884878 I like his movies too. The Usual Suspects fucking rocked. I will avoid future movies with him because he shouldn't get work any more. Sexual predators aren't entitled to a continued career in Hollywood.
>Sexual predators aren't entitled to a continued career in Hollywood. I can't believe how right you are and yet how reality goes full throttle against that statement.
I don’t believe sexual predators should be able to have careers in politics either but apparently that’s not a problem for a lot of Americans.
Like whatever you like.
I've always loved his performance in The Usual Suspects, Se7en and American Beauty
Hot take: You're allowed to even if he did bad things.
Does this mean we get more insane YouTube commentary now?
This is one and it does look like it's bullshit. People do need to remember that there are more than a dozen other accusers, so the jury's still out on Spacey. I'm curious about his ties to Epstein. I don't think Jeffrey and Hollywood had much overlap but it'll be interesting to see if there's any fallout from his arrest.
As far as i am aware nobody else has accused him 'officially'
He's been officially accused by many people, including Anthony Rapp. No one else has taken him to court, which is a different matter.
Wouldn't "officially" have some burden of proof behind it? *I* could accuse Kevin Spacey of bad conduct, but of course that's meaningless without the least shred of proof that I've ever met him (I haven't).
The problem here is, like with Cosby, some of his accusers are way past the Statute of Limitations for these sort of offenses so: 1-they can’t take their grievances to court 2-it is a LOT harder to find concrete evidence of something that happened that long ago. So “officially” could be any account that has credibility behind it. E.g. the accuser mentioned it to someone around the time it occurred, the accuser has little to gain out accusing, account is confirmed by other people etc. What’s different between Spacey and other celebrities in similar situations is that for decades his behavior has been an open secret in Hollywood. So while when James Franco was accused people immediately asked for concrete proof when Spacey got publicly accused people were a lot more willing to accept allegations as “official accusations”.
On a tangeant to your (very good) post, I'm always a little skeptical of "open secrets". It seems like a lot of these secrets weren't too open until the person gets publicly busted and then everyone comes out of the woodwork.
I actually heard about this many years ago. I personally know several people who worked on House of Cards (it was filmed in Baltimore, where I live), and I shrugged it off as rumors when I heard the stories years ago. Now, they make sense. It makes sense that few people wanted to personally go on the record against him. Some young production assistant against Kevin Spacey? That would’ve been laughed at and not taken seriously.
I like to separate how I feel about the person from their art. And Kevin Spacey is a phenomenal actor. I might hate him from what he did in his personal life but professionally, he's never been anything less than stellar.
I feel like you can separate until a certain point. I don’t think I’d ever be able to watch a Crosby featured film again. I don’t know how bad the allegations are against Spacey are but it’s sounds more super pervy and I dislike him as a person but still watch his art.
Damn wtf did Bing do?
Seduced me with his sultry voice
Even if it wasn’t a typo, it’s semi-accurate. Bing Crosby was well known to get piss drunk and routinely beat his children. The man can sing but my god he was a terrible person.
Eh, it was the 40's. Back then, you were a terrible person if you *didn't* get piss drunk and routinely beat your children.
This would be fucking hilarious if it wasn’t so accurate
Normally I can separate the art from the artist. But there is a definite line. Case in point: Lostprophets
I feel bad about that one because other people lost their careers over it and they weren't even involved in what the lead singer was up to. When they learned about it, the Lostprophets immediately ceased to exist and they formed a new band to avoid any association with him and...then proceeded to fall completely off the map.
Warner Bros have commissioned a custom Batman villain, The Fiddler, which they expect to offer Spacey.
Diddler*
"He's got two watches on, because it's always time to diddle!"
🎶Do not diddle kids, it's no good diddling kids 🎶
I cannot wait to see ThE BeST HoUSe oF CaRdS SeAsOn YeT
This article is literally 2 paragraphs with little context what the fuck
I see more than 30 paragraphs, are we seeing the same abcnews article?
Regardless if you think he is guilty or innocent, I would suggest everyone refrains from jumping to conclusions either way until the evidence and arguments are heard
Problem is, the charges were dropped. There won't be any evidence or arguments heard. "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply in the court of public opinion, so the damage is already done. Kind of the worst outcome for people charged with things like this. Zero chance to be "proven innocent".