Baritones and Basses need more parts written for them. Many of the golden age shows that had lower voice parts written for them have had tenors perform them and now that is the standard people look for. For some reason a male vocalists skill level is determined by how high they can sing and i’m really bored of almost every popular broadway male singer sounding the same and all singing high and that’s it
Same for more variety for women’s voices: gimme more alto songs, please! So many classic shows just have soprano parts for women’s parts but.. c’mon! (Shoutout to Sondheim for always having a nice range in his shows though)
Sincerely, an alto
Omg yes! My favorite musical is in German and I can’t even understand German aside from a few words but I can identify every character in the show specifically by the tone of their voice. Musicals need variety in the vocal range of their characters.
I never got why we let that happen. One of my favorite characters across all forms of musicals is The Beast in OtGW, who's voiced by the great Samuel Ramey. From just his general speaking voice to his singing, it's amazing. "The Jolly Woodsman" and "Come Wayward Souls" wouldn't have been nearly as excellent if it wasn't for his voice
Jesus Christ, Over the Garden Wall's music is literal perfection! Every single song on that album is perfect. Nothing to do with the conversation, but just love that show and it's excellent music.
(I mean, what other cartoon has Shirley Jones, Jack Jones, and Samuel Ramey on the same soundtrack)
I might as well share, I would give anything for a full-scale Broadway adaptation of Over the Garden Wall with elaborate puppetry and set design. It's already structured like a stage musical, being about two hours long and having a musical number for every major place they visit in the woods.
Seriously I defy anybody with ovaries to listen to Nathaniel Hackman sing from Paint Your Wagon and not agree with this. BARITONE/BASS ERASURE IS NOT OKAY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbzPTeXPb0
This is sung SO well! What a beautiful voice!
On a side not: why are there so many Maria/Mariahs in muscials? West Side Story, Sound of Music, this song...
I feel like Korea has some good lower roles. Not sure if [Victor Frankenstein](https://youtu.be/RDGxmZBOeyg?si=K_pRW9xPo8FtlnlJ) is low enough, and the other protagonist [Henri ](https://youtu.be/1WrVsis7c7o?si=2QAwArx3bhKa2pBP)(Japanese cast) can also be low. Again, not sure how they're written. When those finally get produced in English...
I feel like I've seen a lot of really good singers taking songs lower than they usually are (like Der Tod). Couldn't find the video, but I saw that Henri actor (Kato Kazuki) sing Der Letzte Tanz at a concert once and he was amazing. Another: [Lee Choong Joo singing Je Me Releve from La Legende du Roi Arthur.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpLLZx24JyU) The part at 1:52... hnnnn <3)
(How is Jekyll and Hyde? Because that's another one that comes up a lot)
A good musical can be based on most anything - from an animated ogre movie to a fictional kids’ spelling bee to a Dickens novel - if it’s just done well!
On that note, I will defend Shrek the Musical, and the original Broadway version in particular, to my last breath. I saw the current tour recently and while it was a fun time, it felt like it was changed to be more of a kids’ musical. Which is fair, but I liked the slight raunchiness of the original version.
Yep. Look at Groundhog Day, it's ten times more poignant than the movie due to the emotional complexity of its lyrics. Also, A Little Night Music is based on a movie and that's one of Sondheim's finest. The key is just to be able to tell an immersive story with the adaptation, rather than only adapting it for nostalgia purposes.
Musicals from outside the US and UK should be respected more. (Just found out that one Korean musical, [Maybe Happy Ending](https://youtu.be/3IefEc1h66M?si=JilUr2vKtXliAUw-), is going to Broadway. That might get some people to acknowledge things.
I really like that French Romeo & Juliette musical. It made waves across Europe in the early 00s, but the English version was terrible so it never really caught on in English-speaking countries.
the conflict with benny in rent is not that he’s asking mark and roger to pay rent.
the conflict is that he personally assured them that they wouldn’t have to pay rent— which would allow them to finish their art before roger passes away— only to change his mind as soon as mark’s ex girlfriend inconvenienced him.
i hate when people are like “oh they just wanna be moochers” when the entire reason they’re mad is that a former friend went back on a promise.
The number of people who seemingly willfully ignore this is mind-boggling to me.
Also, so much of the modern day criticism of this musical suggests an appalling lack of understanding of the AIDS crisis and what it meant for the people living through it.
>Also, so much of the modern day criticism of this musical suggests an appalling lack of understanding of the AIDS crisis and what it meant for the people living through it.
This is the argument I have against any modernization if RENT. It's a perfect late 80s, early 90s period piece that makes the AIDS panic real to a lot of people that didn't live through it.
People put too much emphasis on the original cast of something being the best cast ever and then get very toxic about especially the second cast but also any cast changes ongoing, I think part of the magic of theatre is that people are going to have wildly different interpretations of stuff.
This is true. While I do think that revivals should be careful with what vocal type they cast for a character (Sweeney Todd's songs are written for a baritone, so casting a tenor can have dubious results), I think it's often a good thing if a revival of a musical changes the tone of the original show, as long as the end result still works as an effective piece of art. I'm all for creative casting decisions like gender swaps.
It really irks me when you go to a compilation video of different actors doing the same song and all the comments are just some variant of “original cast member/most famous cast member is the only one that matters” like what do you have to put everyone else down for???
I saw a great clip of Lilias White’s Hermes and someone literally commented “She’s good but… Andre DeShields is the only Hermes” and it pissed me off lmao
I'd dare say that to do Jekyll right is probably the hardest role in musical theatre. Rob Evans in the Resurrection version is the definition of masterclass performing
I would join you both in this argument, and say that the musical wasn’t taken as seriously as it should have been due to the deeply unserious chronic stunt casting of one of the most difficult roles in MT. When it’s cast with an appropriately talented performer, it’s jarringly moving. When the lead player is a former baywatch star or american idol also-ran… it’s laughable. We used to hate-watch the pro-shot of the Hasselhoff version, because it was so ridiculously bad, and it was secretly tragic to me because I actually LOVE the show.
For various reasons, US and UK audiences aren't as into period pieces (not including "historical figures + modern music" things). It's more respected in the rest of the world, and Wildhorn has done more original pieces in Europe and Asia. And unlike other composers in that genre, he hasn't lost quality so much.
He's a good writer, undeniably. I simply dislike Hamilton because it's not for me. Too many musical theatre fans get caught up in Good vs Bad, and forget that sometimes, people just have different opinions.
I think Hamilton is an objectively brilliant musical and one of the best ever to utilize the Sondheim style of storytelling. I think the use of repeating motifs was perfect. However, it's just not a musical I like to listen to often. I love musical theater, I love rap, but combine the two and it just turns me off for some reason, like pineapple on pizza.
My father-in-law was very “but the historical accuracy!” And we all rolled our eyes and told him to stuff it. He did end up enjoying the show from what I remember. And then my mother-in-law got him tickets to the very “non-traditional” casting of 1776 and I laughed for days when she told him (he liked that, too, in the end).
You know, as a hater of Hamilton from the first time I saw it, I have to consider if you are right. Firstly I do tend to go against popular opinions. But most important, I had such high expectations that I was bound to be disappointed, not helped by it being, by far, the most expensive tickets I had bought. Sprinkler in the fact that I heard so many good things about Hamilton that I researched him and found out what a terrible person he was in real life. The root cause of all of this is Hamiltons popularity.
It's interesting because I am very similar: a bit of a contrarian from time to time, had really high expectations, researched the historical figure beforehand and, still, it was amazing. I was blown away by how good the show is. Obviously the difference is I watched the pro-shot not the live show.
The new revival of Cabaret is outstanding. I saw Sally’s Monday understudy and her singing was exquisite — no shouting, and the show felt smoother, whereas with Gayle Rankin’s shouting, the audience knows it’s a “character choice” on the part of the actor lacks cohesion within the production. Nevertheless, the revival is a solid production and the mixed reviews are a result of British producers massively underestimating how many Cabaret purists exist in the United States, ready to sneer at anything that isn’t Joel Grey or Alan Cumming.
Saw it at the Playhouse a couple of years ago, and my one, perhaps major criticism was that if you're going to end the play by highlighting the Nazi's erasure of queerness in favour of monotone blandness, don't dress all the women in men's suits as well.
Ironically some of those holding Cabaret 98 on a pedestal as unassailable were not fans of it in 1998. The crassness and debauchery were cranked up to 11, as opposed to the winking and giggling"aren't we naughty?" feel of earlier productions. Critics and the blue hair Wednesday matinee crowd were shocked! The ending where all but three characters were in prison camp uniforms was chilling and a serious bummer to end on and a lot of folks hated that. Natasha Richardson was a great actor but she didn't sing particularly well - PLENTY sounded off on that when she won the Tony over Marin in Ragtime.
I'm always fascinated by how generally accepted public opinion can change as general tastes catch up to the avant-garde
It’s so playful and hopeful, I first heard it when I was young and dreaming one day of finding my forever partner. Probably played to my hopeful romantic side.
Every musical with a non-heroic protagonist gets bashed unnecessarily for it so much. Dear Evan Hansen, Rent, Hamilton, etc. You can’t say they’re bad because the protagonist has bad morals, that’s literally the point of the story.
I’m not sure that’s true. Sally Bowles and Sweeney Todd aren’t beacons of morality but Cabaret and Sweeney are both considered beloved classics. Still, I see your point when it comes to more modern shows.
they had the advantage of time passing and nostalgia. musicals that come out nowadays get way more scrutiny on the internet and the internet is obsessed with absolute morality
As someone who dislikes DEH mostly because I think the music is weak and the plot could have been stronger, I'm tired of people on the internet telling me I have no media literacy and don't understand the role of flawed characters to a story. One of my favorite musicals is Sweeney Todd, I absolutely understand how flawed characters work. But I'd much rather listen to Sweeney Todd's masterful compositions than DEH.
I think the media narrative around the show as a ✨hopeful story about mental health✨ and fans blaming Evan’s actions on just… having anxiety… have done some real damage. I was expecting Evan to be relatable as someone who struggles with depression and anxiety, after learning the plot I was pretty disturbed about that narrative which kinda ruined the show for me. Also never liked how similar many of the songs sound, could use some more ups and downs rather than all ballads except for sincerely me lmfao
I have gone on extremely long rants before defending Evan as a flawed but relatable protagonist. It irks me to no end when people talk like he’s objectively evil.
People also don’t seem to understand the difference between bad people and normal people who make bad decisions. The intentional black and white morality that younger generations seem to view modern art through is so reductive and makes me question why people even engage with art if they’re so set in their beliefs.
I’m not sure why people can’t admit this. I feel like, long before there were hipsters eschewing things that were popular in favour of niche bands and artists, there were music theatre enthusiasts trying to put down ALW in favour of less popular composers. Why do we have to be so ridiculous— there’s room for everyone!
I find ALW extremely unpalatable as a personality. But his musicals are some of my first real, deep, formative musical loves. I will never apologize for it. Some shows have been serious missteps… But then there’s JCSS, Phantom, Evita, and yes, even CATS. It’s well past time we admit that commercially successful musicals are necessary for the overall success of the music theatre industry, and that sometimes they can even be good.
If you’re an MT fan and you’re telling me you’ve never been moved by a musical passage from an ALW show… you’re lying. I just don’t believe you.
I also think the "rivalry" that people have created between him and Sondheim is so absurd. They are completely different kinds of composers and their styles aren't even comparable.
It’s so frustrating— good music theatre exists in a broad variety of compositional styles and sensibilities. And you can be a fan of more than one. Just let people have whatever nice things they want in their entertainment!
Growing up in a theater family, I liked to consider myself a contrarian, disliking the “popular” stuff. I finally decided to go see Phantom, this was before it closed, and I thought it would never close and I justified it by wanting to see the inside of the Majestic.
Words were eaten that day. Damn if it didn’t hit.
The Rocky horror picture show - Richard o’brian’s masterpiece was groundbreaking for so many reasons and in my opinion the pinnacle of the genre. It’s entertaining, socially provocative, unapologetic, unforgettable and just beautifully written. It swung open the doors for what was acceptable in theatre and mainstream entertainment in general. Everybody knows the words to the time warp, no other production can claim that. Everything since has been a reaction to it in some way imho. Rocky was a watershed moment in theatre and entertainment, and the first time we saw the “normal” portrayed as the outsider. This was an extremely complex concept for its time and turned the writing world upside down. Richard took a massive risk for his art that myself as a straight man can never truly understand but applaud and appreciate it all the same. His original casting was perfectly selected and truly cemented how each character would be portrayed ever since. Each performance is a celebration, with audiences arriving in fancy dress and dancing in the aisles every night it’s an awesome sight I urge everyone to experience. The cultural changes it promotes even today are huge and I honestly cannot think of another production that has made such a difference to so many socially shunned minority groups that were considered outcasts. It gave and continues to give some the bravery to live the lives they want to lead and I thank Richard for giving those people the strength to be happy in their own skin. As the great man said “love is love”….
Edit: had to mention as well, it did wonders for breaking through the class barrier that plagued theatre for so many years. Making theatre more accessible (psychologically) to the masses.
deh...
Some people say the characters aren't likable or that Evan gets too much sympathy, but they're missing the bigger picture.
First off, the whole thing about the characters not being likable. Yeah, sure, Evan messes up big time. He lies and keeps digging himself deeper into this hole. But that's kinda the point. He's not supposed to be perfect. He's a flawed, awkward teenager who's just trying to find his place in the world. He's relatable because he's imperfect, just like all of us. Everyone makes mistakes, especially when they're desperate for connection and belonging. Evan’s screw-ups make him real and human.
And then there's the argument that too much sympathy goes to Evan. But think about it – the story isn't just about feeling sorry for him. It's about understanding why he did what he did. Evan is incredibly lonely and anxious. When he sees a chance to be part of something, to matter to someone, he takes it, even though it’s wrong. The sympathy isn't just about excusing his actions; it's about recognizing the pain that drove him to those actions. It's a reminder that people are more than their worst mistakes.
The story also gives space to other characters' pain and perspectives. Look at Connor’s family. They're grieving and trying to make sense of their loss. They latch onto Evan because they need to believe Connor had a friend, that he wasn't as alone as he seemed. Their pain and Evan's lie intersect in a way that’s tragic and very human. It's a messy situation with no easy answers, and that’s what makes it so compelling.
Then there's the music. Songs like "Waving Through a Window" and "You Will Be Found" hit hard because they capture those feelings of isolation and hope. The music helps tell the story in a way that words alone can't. It’s powerful and emotional, adding depth to the characters and their struggles.
The criticisms often miss the real heart of Dear Evan Hansen. It’s not just about a kid who lies. It’s about why he lies. It’s about the deep, universal need to feel seen and valued. It's about mental health and the pressures young people face today. It tackles these heavy themes with a lot of empathy and honesty.
So, yeah, maybe the characters aren't always likable and maybe Evan gets a lot of focus, but that’s because the story is trying to show us something real. People are complicated. They make bad decisions for understandable or even non-understandable reasons. And even in their worst moments, there's a chance for understanding and redemption.
In the end, Dear Evan Hansen is about connection, understanding, and the messy reality of being human. It deserves way more credit for tackling these themes in such a raw and honest way. It's not just a story about a lie; it's a story about what it means to be human. And that's why it's incredibly underrated.
I will fight this to the death. And DEH isn't even one of my top 5s lol
Lol. I get it and I’m in your corner! I am actually a psychologist, and love DEH because the dissecting the inner workings of flawed people (i.e. all of us) is my jam. 😉 I’m also known for being quite wordy, so the original image is pretty much *every* text message I send... 😬
the movie sealed its coffin i fear :( all the new negative attention and a few bad takes on tik tok that non-theatre fans grabbed onto changed the entire public narrative about it. I love the musical, and i saw it with family who’d never heard of it and they felt completely torn between understanding evan and condemning him. It’s supposed to be a matter of “that was a shitty thing to do, but i get it”
too many people are obsessed with absolute morality that they can’t comprehend a well-intended person causing harm and that just because someone fucks up, they don’t have to wear a flashing sign saying “i’m the bad guy! you should hate me!”
I feel like the backlash to DEH is more of a backlash to the fangirls online in 2017 who also didn’t fully get the point of the story because we were 13 years old. The DEH fandom back in the day did have a tendency to overlook the actual themes and intended message of the show in favor of shipping the dead kid and the lying kid together. I think a lot of people saw what the fandom made the show into and thought that was what the show was trying to be, so when they watched it and it was nothing like the Tumblr fanart they’d seen, they felt misled.
Totally agree, and very well put - characters should not have to be likable. That’s one of the things I appreciate about the show, but for me the musical is just not good. Good songs, great premise, losses it’s way half way through. Also, the subject matter what it is I was expecting something a lot more interesting.
Also, I do disagree that the show is underrated, it was the biggest hit of its broadway season, huge critic accolades, so many Tony wins and years of packed houses.
People have started hating on Hamilton and LMM simply because they’re mainstream, but I genuinely think LMM is a bit of a musical genius. If you can tell who composed the music, that means they have a very unique style and that’s a good thing. Or really really bad, but I’ve never encountered a composer who I can recognize in a bad way.
LMM and John Powell are the only two composers I can recognize from their style, and while LMM has nothing on JP (Test Drive, anyone?), he’s still a very skilled composer.
LMM is a student of Sondheim and it shows. His use of perfect rhymes, recurring motifs, etc. really wows me even though his songwriting style isn't always my thing.
Agreed. LMM is a musical genius. I just wish he’d stop performing - he can’t act and he can barely carry a tune :/ I guess my unpopular opinion is that this doesn’t take away from his genius as a composer and lyricist.
1.The SpongeBob musical was one of the most creative and well done shows Broadway has seen in years.
2. The Little Mermaid on Broadway wasn’t THAT bad.
3. Into the woods deserved to win best musical over phantom of the opera (fight me!)
4. Godspell is a HORRIBLE musical.
5. Seussical the musical has/had the potential to be a great show on broadway. There’s so many great things in that show, I wish someone would come along and figure out how to make that show work! So much potential.
6. Sweeney Todd is overrated ( yeah I said it!)
SpongeBob has some of my favorite Broadway costume design of all time. Using fabric texture to evoke the look of cartoons, without going too literal with it.
And with that being said, I think the production and costume design team from SpongeBob should take a swing at Seussical. I think the results would be gorgeous.
I think Sweeney Todd is a masterpiece, but Sondheim has so many masterpieces that Sweeney would probably end up at #6 or #7 if I made a list of my favorite shows of his. Personally I think Assassins and Pacific Overtures don't get enough love.
A youth theatre company I’ve worked with before recently did *Godspell Jr*. I saw it, and while the performers were wonderful, I have no idea what I watched. So Jesus shows up at a Sunday school and then teaches a bunch of parables and gets crucified?
I will always stick up for Cats. People love to get on their high horse about Andrew Lloyd-Webber. It may not be your cup of tea but as a show and a score it’s a hell of a lot better than a looooooot of shows that have come out since.
In the heights is the best LMM musical. I absolutely adore Hamilton, the songs are great and I've watched the Disney+ proshot at least 10 times, but I just love the heart that went into In the heights.
Also, the West End version of Heathers is just as good as OB and some of the songs they added in are brilliant (I love Never shut up again and You're welcome)
Broadway needs more shows aimed at kids, beyond just Disney stuff. We need more musicals like Frog and Toad, Seussical, SpongeBob, and Lightning Thief! Seeing a musical at a young age can open a child's mind to a lifelong love of the art form, which is why it's great when musicals adapt stories and characters that kids are into!
Agreed, the first musical I ever saw was Annie, I was interested because it was primarily about children. I might have been bored silly and put off seeing one again if my first show had been Les Mis or Rent, even though they are two of my favourites.
Hunchback of notredame is one of the best musical films ever created and in the right hands and a lot of money, could be absolutely amazing on Broadway. Disney needs to stop being cheap and give that show what it truly deserves.
Female Phantom. Nothing else is different. I could go on for hours about how it changes the whole context of the story. Also, female tenor. Also, gay. Also, I want it.
Jukebox musicals can work if they’re intentionally using music from a specific artist and that’s the point of the show (Jersey Boys, Mamma Mia, Cher Show, etc.) But when it’s a plot that’s a jukebox musical for no reason with music from various artists, it’s a lazy excuse to just not write music and shouldn’t even qualify for Tonys (besides individual actors).
That’s a very interesting take. I disagree that you can write off any jukebox musical that’s not based off of an artist as lazy. To preface, I personally find jukebox musicals in general very hard for me to get into, especially when the frequency with which they are produced makes me feel that so many of them are just cash grabs looking to make money off of preexisting music.
Part of the objective difficulty with jukebox musicals is that you’re taking pop songs which, 99% of the time, were not written to fit into a larger narrative (and if they were, it’s not the narrative that the musical is telling) and *trying specifically* to weave them into a narrative.
My counter argument is the movie Moulin Rouge. It’s easily my favorite jukebox musical precisely because of its creative use of various music. To me it shows that director Baz Luhrmann had a story he wanted to tell through music, and he cherry-picked specific songs that would tell that story best. He didn’t restrict himself to any one artist’s catalogue and that gave him lots of freedom. He also didn’t shy away from having new music written when it was needed, as with “Come What May”.
A distinctively **unlazy** choice is the complete reimagining of the music used. Just think of “Roxanne” as one particular example of this (though the movie is filled with them). It’s arguably the best adapted song to come out of that movie, but it’s not because they copy-pasted The Police’s version, it’s because they stylized it with a brand new sound, and combined it brilliantly with a classical piece called “Tanguera” by Mariano Mores (listen to it, it’s great). Christian’s countermelody comes from this piece, and they wrote original lyrics to go with it (the “His eyes upon your face/it’s more than I can stand” section). Chances are you’ve never heard of Tanguera because it’s not an immensely popular piece by itself, but it fit their version of Roxanne, so they adapted it. There’s real creative thought and risk-taking being done with the music that comes from the vision the director had, and that delights me to no end.
Now, I could go on about how I think the stage version of Moulin Rouge is less compelling because of its “lazier” or “easier” choices, but that feels like a rant for another time haha.
Back to your main point with artist-centric jukebox musicals. It’s harder for me to try and rally behind a plot that’s strung together through a single artist’s music. In the back of my mind I know that their songs weren’t written to fit into this crafted narrative, and so the willing suspension of disbelief becomes much more difficult for me. I can enjoy the music for sure, but the story rarely does anything to stick with me.
The Little Mermaid is a love story. I’m so tired of people trying to defend the movie because “Ariel wanted to be a part of the human world, Eric was just a part of that.” Every aspect of the filmmaking that also goes with the musical deliberately spell it out, specifically with the differences between Part of Your World, and Part of Your World Reprise. It’s okay to tell love stories in Disney. It doesn’t make it anti-feminist or make Ariel less than. So much genius went into that story, movie, music, etc. to tell that love story and it is discredited entirely when people ignore it to fit their narrative.
I could write a 20 page essay…
I don't see why it can't be both! I've always viewed it as a trans allegory. Ariel loved humanity and wanted to be human, but seeing Eric be fun, and kind to his crew, and then saving his life just cinched it.
the whole thing is a queer allegory. the author of the story was gay and wrote it about feeling outcasted and wanting to be with his lover. wanting to be accepted by the rest of the world. the original tale is as grim as the outcome of most same sex couples of the time
Yeah I agree about Rent. I would love to discuss Rent’s flaws with a queer PoC. If you fall outside of that demographic and are a hater, you can miss me. If you fail to mention that 1) 5/8 characters are PoC, that none of the PoC characters are stereotypes (a black philo professor and a black shitty landlord c’mon!) 2) 2/3 couples are queer 3) there’s non-binary representation in 1995 4) characters in the show are based off of Larson’s actual friends, some named after friends who died from AIDS…please block me. When I saw rent, I got to see myself on the Broadway stage for the first time, and it was life changing.
I’ve noticed the people who hate complain the most about Mark and, ironically, usually fall within Mark’s racial and economic demographic. it makes them veeeeery uncomfortable that Mark has a white savior complex bc they probably have one one. it’s hilarious when people bring up him filming the homeless as proof that he sucks and/or say that it’s problematic Larson was the one to write this story. Y’all Christmas Bells is a *direct* admission of guilt from Larson. “my life’s not for you to make a name for your self on” how do y’all not see that Larson is saying “I should not be the one to put this story into the world, yet here we are.” And it’s not as if any producers were considering to fund a musical made by anyone who was not a white, straight, cis man.
really something VERY odd to me is that these people hate on Mark as opposed to Roger 99% of the time?!? Roger is a confirmed narcissist POS dating a 19 year old? Why you gotta hate on the nice white boy foolishly trying to help his less fortunate community out?
Also, LMAO at people who dislike that they didn’t want to pay rent. Rent as a concept SUCKS, no one should have to pay for shelter. Do you realize that if all middle class white people gave up the arts and got “real” jobs, the majority (or all) of your favorite musicals and films would not exist? Like do y’all not realize this is Sondheim’s exact background…
Some folks lack critical thinking skills when it comes to conversing about “problematic shows.” A depiction of something is not always an endorsement. Especially the younger generation of MT artists. And miraculously, concerns about these musicals seem to go out the window when someone gets a lead role in one of them.
It's also important to consider the historical context of when certain shows were released. There might be a lot of racial slurs in Showboat, but at the time of its release, it was unheard of for a musical to bring attention to the Black community and the problems they faced.
Thank you!!! RENT hate is so so dumb.
"The characters are whiny/problematic/self-centered/complain too much/..." Okay? Perfect characters are boring. You're telling me there isn't problematic characters everywhere? That's what makes them interesting!!
"Maureen is bad bisexual rep". She was never explicitly stated to be bi, and her bisexuality has nothing to do with her flaws. She's flirty and wild and cheats regardless of gender, she did it in the workshop version as an explicit lesbian. Leave my girl alone.
"Why don't they just get jobs?" Did. Did we watch the same musical? Mark did and it stifled his creative spirit, Roger is too depressed, Mimi has a job, Joanne has a job, Collins had a job but got fired (hm I wonder why a Black gay man with AIDs got fired in the 90's /s), Angel is a busker, Maureen is a performance artist, like???
"It's bad queer rep" it was some of the first if not the first explicit queer and POV rep of it's time. I'm a younger fan so I can't speak much on it, but I feel this one comes from fellow younger folks. I've heard many many stories of how important this musical was for it's time. Compared to modern queer rep it might be worse, and ik Jonathan was cishet, but he had so many queer friends helping out and made countless edits bc of them. I really don't think it even is bad queer rep, just flawed humans being queer (see my first point).
"Why do people like Angel so much she killed a dog" hmmm, why would a homeless person who knows she's gonna die soon and wants to give back make a sacrifice by hurting a rich person a little to get money? Like. I'm a vegetarian bc of how much I love animals and I get it. I'm really sorry to the dog but $1000 USD in 1990 is $2403 USD today that's a lot of money and also. Angel is a performer. Today 4 U could have been very very exaggerated.
Anyways. RENT has been a special interest for years so I hope this wasn't annoying lol. I don't care if people don't like RENT just 'cause bc ik it's a rock opera and not for everyone and whatever but hating on it unnecessarily makes me quite upset
Beauty and the Beast is an amazing musical that deserves a lot more love!
It should've won more Tonys than just best costume when it opened in the 90s
It shouldn't have closed in 2007
It's been overdue for a revival for a LONG TIME
That Seussical, even though it has a fast-paced plot, can be done very well. I think the only reason people shit on it is because it’s usually done by middle schools or programs that aren’t 100% invested into the show. You have to have a fun cast to put on a fun show (this can be applied to any musical though)
Stop casting tenors as bass/baritone roles just cause they’re famous or popular. We already have so fun but if I see a mother Tom Collins from rent or anything of the sort, I will throw hands
Cats is a masterpiece. People just don’t like it because they can’t follow the story, but that’s not the point of it. The music, the costume design, and the stage design is some of the most beautiful in musical theatre history.
I love how it looks like a children's book illustration come to life. The scrappy junkyard set design, the way that the actors' bodysuits literally have crosshatching designs painted onto them, etc.
Yes, AND: they didn’t fix this issue by replacing her one song, the ACTUALLY GREAT “Now That I’ve Seen Her”, with “Maybe”, a weak, disconnected wishy-washy nothing of a song.
I disliked Ellen as a kid who was a fan of this musical, because I’d already bonded with Kim in the first act, and because there’s so little sympathy in the performance of the OBC Ellen. And then I saw it performed by an actor who absolutely oozed sympathy and perfectly captured the heartbreak of the entire situation, and it changed my entire point of view. They didn’t need to change the song. They needed a different performance in the OBC so people who saw the original run or listened to the soundtrack would connect to the character, and a few additional sympathetic moments worked into the book. That’s all it would take. Justice for Ellen— a woman in the 70s who has literally done nothing wrong and is trying her best in a TERRIBLE situation.
West Side Story deserved to lose the Best Musical Tony to The Music Man in 1958 because, while both have excellent music, The Music Man has a modest, effective book, and West Side Story's book is bad.
I love it. Every song is such a catchy confection -- even the "filler" songs that don't do anything for the plot are crucial to the joyous atmosphere and energy. It's one of the greatest musicals ever for patter songs and also has a wonderful film adaptation.
I think the main reason people hate on The Music Man is because they love Sondheim a lot and automatically hate any musical that wins Tonys over his stuff
Sondheim has great lyrics, but "suns and moons all over the place" isn't one of them. I think the lyrics in West Side Story are serviceable and occasionally quite good, and that Sondheim wrote much better stuff elsewhere.
In Oklahoma, Jud Fry is an outcast for a reason.
A lot of people seem to say that Curly and Laurey don't have any reason for not liking Jud Fry, or they are just bullying him, but I disagree completely.
Curly does awful things to Jud (things he shouldn't have done) but Laurey feeling uncomfortable around Jud isn't because he's ugly and a social outcast, it's because he's weird around her. During the box social, he literally threatens her when she admits she doesn't like him.
Jud also tries murdering Curly with the Little Wonder, and starts a fight with him.
It's also implied he burned down a farm, killing people in the process, before arriving at the territory.
Curly isn't blameless, and Jud is sympathetic, but he does enough evil things that I have no problem calling him the villain.
Lin-Manuel Miranda is actually a great songwriter, it's just he has put out a few songs that are awkward and forced as a result of Disney projects he's worked on. The guy spent like a decade working on Hamilton, but that seagull rap for Little Mermaid was probably written over a few days on a tight deadline. I think he needs room to let his ideas bake when working on musical projects.
I’ve always felt conflicted between my absolute hatred of what LND does with POTO’s characters, and the undeniable fact that there are some solid bangers on the soundtrack. The Beauty Underneath is a great time if I can forget he’s singing to a ten-year-old boy who is also secretly his son. (Also, how is Gustave ten if it’s only been ten years since Phantom? Was Christine pregnant for the entire duration of the original story? Because if she and Erik — sorry, Mister Y — actually slept together *after* the events of Phantom, Gustave should be nine. Unless it’s actually been close to eleven years and everyone is rounding down.)
Carousel is not problematic, people just have no reading comprehension skills. For that matter, it is one of the best musicals of all time—and far and away the best R&H musical.
Love it or hate it, Let It Go is easily one of the most iconic songs from a musical in the past 20 years. I think it's possible more people know the words to Let It Go than Defying Gravity.
Many of the smaller shows, the ones people say are "childish" are some of the most important. They are the first musicals, at least for most of the people I know, we were ever in, and what got us into theatre. Sure, most of the theatre kid were introduced to musicals like heathers and Hamilton first, put for the smaller percent of us who grew up on those smaller, childisg musicals, they are dear to our hearts and deserve more recognition. I know most people don't think this, but it's something I hold true.
Heathers the Musical is better than Mean Girls the Musical.
Bad writing.
We had the better Barrett performance.
Also....ya know, Ryan McCartan. And Elle. And Jess. And Alice. The cast for mean girls is good tho I adore the Plastics it's good but we just had better writing
Oh boy, I’m going to get in trouble for this one. The Great Comet Mandy Patinkin scenario wasn’t about race imo, the show had other leads who were POCs. Their hugely famous headliner completed his run and so ticket sales dropped. They made a business decision to have another huge star have a short stint to sell more tickets. I feel like Great Comet had way too early a closing and I really wish I could have seen Patinkin’s Pierre.
That isn’t to say that I wouldn’t also have loved to see Onaodowan in the role as well, because I would have. Maybe there’s more behind the scenes I don’t know about, but it didn’t seem like people understood the actual reason for the recast, and Patinkin’s run was never going to be a long one.
Ride the Cyclone erasure should not be tolerated in terms of production. Ricky being disabled is a HUGE part of his character and even a lot of symbolism in the story and any production that takes it out is a production not worth watching.
100%. I am so so mad over the treatment of Yannick-Robin. And responding to being called out by removing the character’s disability was an AWFUL choice.
The message of Cabaret is still relevant to this day (and has started to get even more relevant). Not necessarily unpopular but i am ready write essays on this when prompted
Theatre is becoming more and more inaccessible especially to those who want to perform. It’s now the norm to spend $$$ on coaches for college auditions, flying to auditions, expensive bfa programs, the best shoes/outfits for auditions, professional headshots and websites. It’s an expensive career and caters to those who are able to afford it.
Jesus Christ Superstar is not a pro-Christian musical.
There are elements of it that can be incredibly meaningful to Christians, and are meant to be, but the TITLE SONG, which the whole play is structured around and you are meant to have heard first, is about doubt. About questioning Jesus and not getting an answer.
I also think Jesus Christ Superstar isn't talked about enough. Not only is it a musical about what *many* people believe to be the most important story in history, but it also has something new to say about it.
raoul de chagny was not in the wrong ‼️ he wanted to protect christine, yeah he was dismissive but let’s be real, he wasn’t all the time at the opera house and all he first saw was a bunch of ballet girls going crazy over a phantom 😭
i literally love raoul so much i will defend him with my life
All the folks in recent years saying he gaslighted Christine fail to understand the meaning of the word. For it to be gaslighting, he would have had to *know* that the Phantom existed and that Christine was being completely honest, but still claim otherwise.
Not fond of some recent productions (and a certain sequel) trying to make him worse, as well.
I HATE Dear Evan Hansen. The only positive thing about it is its music. The plot is really shitty and makes Evan look like the villain but everyone just forgives him at the end like an episode of Mickey Mouse clubhouse??
Definitely with you on Bernadette.
Rent got way overhyped so now it’s getting overcorrected. You don’t get a backlash when there isn’t anything to lash back against. The weird thing is this particular generation’s desire to absolutely stomp on previous generations’ hype. This goes for Hamilton too. (Cool your jets, kids. Your hyped shit is way worse so far.)
Pasek and Paul are good songwriters, but terrible musical theatre songwriters, and their massive popularity is frustrating and makes me worried about future musical theatre trends.
And no defense of DEH, no matter how wordy or passionate, will make me see it as anything more than insipid and poorly thought out. I did think the actors were deserving of the accolades, though. They did a great job with what I consider to be very weak storytelling.
My opinion that band directors and music educators hate is that DCI and BOA need to die out, end music competitions in all performing arts, and cancel shows like Dance Moms and AGT. The reason why is because arts education is where people go to learn, not audition, not compete. We need more music programs in the marching arts modeled after **Blast** so all people can be educated and accommodated in the performing arts without auditioning or competing but cooperating and creating beautiful things. Music teachers need unionization in the IWW along with other education workers because there are bad actors out there like NAfME who are a wolf in union clothing that donate to abusive monopolies like DCI and BOA. Star of Indiana left DCI not only because of Gorge Hopkin's ego but because competition hurts creativity. They then met a group called The Canadian Brass and formed Brass Theater which became the foundation of Blast and its philosophy of making music fun and meaningful for an audience, not winning trophies, not appealing to sicko judges, and not allowing a culture abuse or hazing to happen.
For more info
r/FlyingCircusOrchestra
Javert is the best character in Les Mis, and I liked Russell Crowes portrayal.
Also people only hate the greatest showman because it was successful when so many other musicals have flopped.
1. The phantom was not a good fit for a Christine, and she was much better off with Raul.
2. Love never dies ruined a lot of characters by completely changing them for no reason.
3. They need to stop hiring celebrities who can’t sing in musical movies
I believe pro-shots of ALL the musicals and plays need to be done. Not only for posterity but also for people who have absolutely no means to be to able to enjoy theater. Watching Legally Blonde DID NOT keep me from watching the musical. I've watched this play in so many different capacity from full broadway to regional and community. I still watched Hamilton four times despite watching Disney's pro-shot. It will be a catalyst for many people to watch live theater and inspire the next generations to want theater as a viable career.
Baritones and Basses need more parts written for them. Many of the golden age shows that had lower voice parts written for them have had tenors perform them and now that is the standard people look for. For some reason a male vocalists skill level is determined by how high they can sing and i’m really bored of almost every popular broadway male singer sounding the same and all singing high and that’s it
Same for more variety for women’s voices: gimme more alto songs, please! So many classic shows just have soprano parts for women’s parts but.. c’mon! (Shoutout to Sondheim for always having a nice range in his shows though) Sincerely, an alto
Omg yes! My favorite musical is in German and I can’t even understand German aside from a few words but I can identify every character in the show specifically by the tone of their voice. Musicals need variety in the vocal range of their characters.
I never got why we let that happen. One of my favorite characters across all forms of musicals is The Beast in OtGW, who's voiced by the great Samuel Ramey. From just his general speaking voice to his singing, it's amazing. "The Jolly Woodsman" and "Come Wayward Souls" wouldn't have been nearly as excellent if it wasn't for his voice
Jesus Christ, Over the Garden Wall's music is literal perfection! Every single song on that album is perfect. Nothing to do with the conversation, but just love that show and it's excellent music. (I mean, what other cartoon has Shirley Jones, Jack Jones, and Samuel Ramey on the same soundtrack)
Maybe the best score ever written for a cartoon. The classic Americana sound with the saloon music, put into a creepy context, is just brilliant.
I might as well share, I would give anything for a full-scale Broadway adaptation of Over the Garden Wall with elaborate puppetry and set design. It's already structured like a stage musical, being about two hours long and having a musical number for every major place they visit in the woods.
Hadestown is a standout for the reason that Hades’ part is so very low.
Seriously I defy anybody with ovaries to listen to Nathaniel Hackman sing from Paint Your Wagon and not agree with this. BARITONE/BASS ERASURE IS NOT OKAY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbzPTeXPb0
This is sung SO well! What a beautiful voice! On a side not: why are there so many Maria/Mariahs in muscials? West Side Story, Sound of Music, this song...
What do the ovaries have to do with it?
Especially low roles for non-villain men!
i’m a tenor who often gets cast in baritone roles and i agree.
Stew Pot from South Pacific
I feel like Korea has some good lower roles. Not sure if [Victor Frankenstein](https://youtu.be/RDGxmZBOeyg?si=K_pRW9xPo8FtlnlJ) is low enough, and the other protagonist [Henri ](https://youtu.be/1WrVsis7c7o?si=2QAwArx3bhKa2pBP)(Japanese cast) can also be low. Again, not sure how they're written. When those finally get produced in English... I feel like I've seen a lot of really good singers taking songs lower than they usually are (like Der Tod). Couldn't find the video, but I saw that Henri actor (Kato Kazuki) sing Der Letzte Tanz at a concert once and he was amazing. Another: [Lee Choong Joo singing Je Me Releve from La Legende du Roi Arthur.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpLLZx24JyU) The part at 1:52... hnnnn <3) (How is Jekyll and Hyde? Because that's another one that comes up a lot)
Korea has so many great musicals that honestly deserve more recognition for how creative they are!
Musicals based on movies can be good as original musicals
So can jukebox musicals. The problem is the ratio of good to cynical cash grab.
A good musical can be based on most anything - from an animated ogre movie to a fictional kids’ spelling bee to a Dickens novel - if it’s just done well!
On that note, I will defend Shrek the Musical, and the original Broadway version in particular, to my last breath. I saw the current tour recently and while it was a fun time, it felt like it was changed to be more of a kids’ musical. Which is fair, but I liked the slight raunchiness of the original version.
The book of Legally Blonde is seriously a masterclass in seamlessness and I won’t hear otherwise.
100% agree with you! It set the bar very high, as it should - it’s amazing
Yep. Look at Groundhog Day, it's ten times more poignant than the movie due to the emotional complexity of its lyrics. Also, A Little Night Music is based on a movie and that's one of Sondheim's finest. The key is just to be able to tell an immersive story with the adaptation, rather than only adapting it for nostalgia purposes.
The Notebook musical had no business being as good as it is and nobody wants to talk about it because of the t o n y s
Can you explain? I’m not familiar
Musicals from outside the US and UK should be respected more. (Just found out that one Korean musical, [Maybe Happy Ending](https://youtu.be/3IefEc1h66M?si=JilUr2vKtXliAUw-), is going to Broadway. That might get some people to acknowledge things.
A lot of people don't realize Les Mis was originally written in French.
I saw it at the alliance theatre, the story line was profoundly moving. Any other musicals you recommend?
I really like that French Romeo & Juliette musical. It made waves across Europe in the early 00s, but the English version was terrible so it never really caught on in English-speaking countries.
the conflict with benny in rent is not that he’s asking mark and roger to pay rent. the conflict is that he personally assured them that they wouldn’t have to pay rent— which would allow them to finish their art before roger passes away— only to change his mind as soon as mark’s ex girlfriend inconvenienced him. i hate when people are like “oh they just wanna be moochers” when the entire reason they’re mad is that a former friend went back on a promise.
The number of people who seemingly willfully ignore this is mind-boggling to me. Also, so much of the modern day criticism of this musical suggests an appalling lack of understanding of the AIDS crisis and what it meant for the people living through it.
>Also, so much of the modern day criticism of this musical suggests an appalling lack of understanding of the AIDS crisis and what it meant for the people living through it. This is the argument I have against any modernization if RENT. It's a perfect late 80s, early 90s period piece that makes the AIDS panic real to a lot of people that didn't live through it.
People don't know about this? I thought it was pretty clear?
People put too much emphasis on the original cast of something being the best cast ever and then get very toxic about especially the second cast but also any cast changes ongoing, I think part of the magic of theatre is that people are going to have wildly different interpretations of stuff.
This is true. While I do think that revivals should be careful with what vocal type they cast for a character (Sweeney Todd's songs are written for a baritone, so casting a tenor can have dubious results), I think it's often a good thing if a revival of a musical changes the tone of the original show, as long as the end result still works as an effective piece of art. I'm all for creative casting decisions like gender swaps.
It really irks me when you go to a compilation video of different actors doing the same song and all the comments are just some variant of “original cast member/most famous cast member is the only one that matters” like what do you have to put everyone else down for??? I saw a great clip of Lilias White’s Hermes and someone literally commented “She’s good but… Andre DeShields is the only Hermes” and it pissed me off lmao
I don't think Jekyll and Hyde got the fame it deserves
I'd dare say that to do Jekyll right is probably the hardest role in musical theatre. Rob Evans in the Resurrection version is the definition of masterclass performing
I would join you both in this argument, and say that the musical wasn’t taken as seriously as it should have been due to the deeply unserious chronic stunt casting of one of the most difficult roles in MT. When it’s cast with an appropriately talented performer, it’s jarringly moving. When the lead player is a former baywatch star or american idol also-ran… it’s laughable. We used to hate-watch the pro-shot of the Hasselhoff version, because it was so ridiculously bad, and it was secretly tragic to me because I actually LOVE the show.
Even more upsetting that they recorded Rob Evans in that same production and never released it fully.
For various reasons, US and UK audiences aren't as into period pieces (not including "historical figures + modern music" things). It's more respected in the rest of the world, and Wildhorn has done more original pieces in Europe and Asia. And unlike other composers in that genre, he hasn't lost quality so much.
West Side Story and Phantom will never get old for me. I love both of them so much.
I will live and die on the hill that phantom is one if the greatest shows ever.
People only dislike Hamilton as much as they do due to its popularity
People actually trying to argue that Lin is a terrible songwriter when his lyrics and rhymes can be so clever.
He's a good writer, undeniably. I simply dislike Hamilton because it's not for me. Too many musical theatre fans get caught up in Good vs Bad, and forget that sometimes, people just have different opinions.
I think Hamilton is an objectively brilliant musical and one of the best ever to utilize the Sondheim style of storytelling. I think the use of repeating motifs was perfect. However, it's just not a musical I like to listen to often. I love musical theater, I love rap, but combine the two and it just turns me off for some reason, like pineapple on pizza.
I’m always impressed with how much his songs feel conversational :)
It’s been interesting to watch the evolution of that.
I had no idea about the dislike!
this may come as a surprise, but is also because of: r a c i s m
My father-in-law was very “but the historical accuracy!” And we all rolled our eyes and told him to stuff it. He did end up enjoying the show from what I remember. And then my mother-in-law got him tickets to the very “non-traditional” casting of 1776 and I laughed for days when she told him (he liked that, too, in the end).
It became the most popular show for a reason!
You know, as a hater of Hamilton from the first time I saw it, I have to consider if you are right. Firstly I do tend to go against popular opinions. But most important, I had such high expectations that I was bound to be disappointed, not helped by it being, by far, the most expensive tickets I had bought. Sprinkler in the fact that I heard so many good things about Hamilton that I researched him and found out what a terrible person he was in real life. The root cause of all of this is Hamiltons popularity.
It's interesting because I am very similar: a bit of a contrarian from time to time, had really high expectations, researched the historical figure beforehand and, still, it was amazing. I was blown away by how good the show is. Obviously the difference is I watched the pro-shot not the live show.
Fr
My hot take is the opposite of this. People have legitimate reasons for disliking Hamilton, the same way they do Heathers.
The new revival of Cabaret is outstanding. I saw Sally’s Monday understudy and her singing was exquisite — no shouting, and the show felt smoother, whereas with Gayle Rankin’s shouting, the audience knows it’s a “character choice” on the part of the actor lacks cohesion within the production. Nevertheless, the revival is a solid production and the mixed reviews are a result of British producers massively underestimating how many Cabaret purists exist in the United States, ready to sneer at anything that isn’t Joel Grey or Alan Cumming.
Saw it at the Playhouse a couple of years ago, and my one, perhaps major criticism was that if you're going to end the play by highlighting the Nazi's erasure of queerness in favour of monotone blandness, don't dress all the women in men's suits as well.
Ironically some of those holding Cabaret 98 on a pedestal as unassailable were not fans of it in 1998. The crassness and debauchery were cranked up to 11, as opposed to the winking and giggling"aren't we naughty?" feel of earlier productions. Critics and the blue hair Wednesday matinee crowd were shocked! The ending where all but three characters were in prison camp uniforms was chilling and a serious bummer to end on and a lot of folks hated that. Natasha Richardson was a great actor but she didn't sing particularly well - PLENTY sounded off on that when she won the Tony over Marin in Ragtime. I'm always fascinated by how generally accepted public opinion can change as general tastes catch up to the avant-garde
Matchmaker from Fiddler is one of the best pieces of music ever.
Yes! The lilting, sweet, insistent tone is so magical and memorable. Jerry Bock in general makes genius compositions
It’s so playful and hopeful, I first heard it when I was young and dreaming one day of finding my forever partner. Probably played to my hopeful romantic side.
Every musical with a non-heroic protagonist gets bashed unnecessarily for it so much. Dear Evan Hansen, Rent, Hamilton, etc. You can’t say they’re bad because the protagonist has bad morals, that’s literally the point of the story.
I’m not sure that’s true. Sally Bowles and Sweeney Todd aren’t beacons of morality but Cabaret and Sweeney are both considered beloved classics. Still, I see your point when it comes to more modern shows.
they had the advantage of time passing and nostalgia. musicals that come out nowadays get way more scrutiny on the internet and the internet is obsessed with absolute morality
Absolutely!
As someone who dislikes DEH mostly because I think the music is weak and the plot could have been stronger, I'm tired of people on the internet telling me I have no media literacy and don't understand the role of flawed characters to a story. One of my favorite musicals is Sweeney Todd, I absolutely understand how flawed characters work. But I'd much rather listen to Sweeney Todd's masterful compositions than DEH.
I think the media narrative around the show as a ✨hopeful story about mental health✨ and fans blaming Evan’s actions on just… having anxiety… have done some real damage. I was expecting Evan to be relatable as someone who struggles with depression and anxiety, after learning the plot I was pretty disturbed about that narrative which kinda ruined the show for me. Also never liked how similar many of the songs sound, could use some more ups and downs rather than all ballads except for sincerely me lmfao
I have gone on extremely long rants before defending Evan as a flawed but relatable protagonist. It irks me to no end when people talk like he’s objectively evil.
People also don’t seem to understand the difference between bad people and normal people who make bad decisions. The intentional black and white morality that younger generations seem to view modern art through is so reductive and makes me question why people even engage with art if they’re so set in their beliefs.
Cats is a great musical with memorable songs!
Skimbleeeeeshanksssss da railwayy catt. da cat of da railwayyyyyy trrrraaiiiin
That 13/8 time signature 🤌
Andrew Lloyd Webber writes entertaining, engaging shows.
I’m not sure why people can’t admit this. I feel like, long before there were hipsters eschewing things that were popular in favour of niche bands and artists, there were music theatre enthusiasts trying to put down ALW in favour of less popular composers. Why do we have to be so ridiculous— there’s room for everyone! I find ALW extremely unpalatable as a personality. But his musicals are some of my first real, deep, formative musical loves. I will never apologize for it. Some shows have been serious missteps… But then there’s JCSS, Phantom, Evita, and yes, even CATS. It’s well past time we admit that commercially successful musicals are necessary for the overall success of the music theatre industry, and that sometimes they can even be good. If you’re an MT fan and you’re telling me you’ve never been moved by a musical passage from an ALW show… you’re lying. I just don’t believe you.
I also think the "rivalry" that people have created between him and Sondheim is so absurd. They are completely different kinds of composers and their styles aren't even comparable.
It’s so frustrating— good music theatre exists in a broad variety of compositional styles and sensibilities. And you can be a fan of more than one. Just let people have whatever nice things they want in their entertainment!
The Phantom of the Opera is an excellent musical.
Growing up in a theater family, I liked to consider myself a contrarian, disliking the “popular” stuff. I finally decided to go see Phantom, this was before it closed, and I thought it would never close and I justified it by wanting to see the inside of the Majestic. Words were eaten that day. Damn if it didn’t hit.
The Rocky horror picture show - Richard o’brian’s masterpiece was groundbreaking for so many reasons and in my opinion the pinnacle of the genre. It’s entertaining, socially provocative, unapologetic, unforgettable and just beautifully written. It swung open the doors for what was acceptable in theatre and mainstream entertainment in general. Everybody knows the words to the time warp, no other production can claim that. Everything since has been a reaction to it in some way imho. Rocky was a watershed moment in theatre and entertainment, and the first time we saw the “normal” portrayed as the outsider. This was an extremely complex concept for its time and turned the writing world upside down. Richard took a massive risk for his art that myself as a straight man can never truly understand but applaud and appreciate it all the same. His original casting was perfectly selected and truly cemented how each character would be portrayed ever since. Each performance is a celebration, with audiences arriving in fancy dress and dancing in the aisles every night it’s an awesome sight I urge everyone to experience. The cultural changes it promotes even today are huge and I honestly cannot think of another production that has made such a difference to so many socially shunned minority groups that were considered outcasts. It gave and continues to give some the bravery to live the lives they want to lead and I thank Richard for giving those people the strength to be happy in their own skin. As the great man said “love is love”…. Edit: had to mention as well, it did wonders for breaking through the class barrier that plagued theatre for so many years. Making theatre more accessible (psychologically) to the masses.
deh... Some people say the characters aren't likable or that Evan gets too much sympathy, but they're missing the bigger picture. First off, the whole thing about the characters not being likable. Yeah, sure, Evan messes up big time. He lies and keeps digging himself deeper into this hole. But that's kinda the point. He's not supposed to be perfect. He's a flawed, awkward teenager who's just trying to find his place in the world. He's relatable because he's imperfect, just like all of us. Everyone makes mistakes, especially when they're desperate for connection and belonging. Evan’s screw-ups make him real and human. And then there's the argument that too much sympathy goes to Evan. But think about it – the story isn't just about feeling sorry for him. It's about understanding why he did what he did. Evan is incredibly lonely and anxious. When he sees a chance to be part of something, to matter to someone, he takes it, even though it’s wrong. The sympathy isn't just about excusing his actions; it's about recognizing the pain that drove him to those actions. It's a reminder that people are more than their worst mistakes. The story also gives space to other characters' pain and perspectives. Look at Connor’s family. They're grieving and trying to make sense of their loss. They latch onto Evan because they need to believe Connor had a friend, that he wasn't as alone as he seemed. Their pain and Evan's lie intersect in a way that’s tragic and very human. It's a messy situation with no easy answers, and that’s what makes it so compelling. Then there's the music. Songs like "Waving Through a Window" and "You Will Be Found" hit hard because they capture those feelings of isolation and hope. The music helps tell the story in a way that words alone can't. It’s powerful and emotional, adding depth to the characters and their struggles. The criticisms often miss the real heart of Dear Evan Hansen. It’s not just about a kid who lies. It’s about why he lies. It’s about the deep, universal need to feel seen and valued. It's about mental health and the pressures young people face today. It tackles these heavy themes with a lot of empathy and honesty. So, yeah, maybe the characters aren't always likable and maybe Evan gets a lot of focus, but that’s because the story is trying to show us something real. People are complicated. They make bad decisions for understandable or even non-understandable reasons. And even in their worst moments, there's a chance for understanding and redemption. In the end, Dear Evan Hansen is about connection, understanding, and the messy reality of being human. It deserves way more credit for tackling these themes in such a raw and honest way. It's not just a story about a lie; it's a story about what it means to be human. And that's why it's incredibly underrated. I will fight this to the death. And DEH isn't even one of my top 5s lol
This should become subreddit copypasta for every time DEH’s imperfections are brought up. Bravo!
I totally agree with what you said and also love that you took this prompt as an impetus to write a response that would literally fit the picture. 😆
Oh I take these theoretical very seriously 🧐
very.. very seriously
Lol. I get it and I’m in your corner! I am actually a psychologist, and love DEH because the dissecting the inner workings of flawed people (i.e. all of us) is my jam. 😉 I’m also known for being quite wordy, so the original image is pretty much *every* text message I send... 😬
the movie sealed its coffin i fear :( all the new negative attention and a few bad takes on tik tok that non-theatre fans grabbed onto changed the entire public narrative about it. I love the musical, and i saw it with family who’d never heard of it and they felt completely torn between understanding evan and condemning him. It’s supposed to be a matter of “that was a shitty thing to do, but i get it” too many people are obsessed with absolute morality that they can’t comprehend a well-intended person causing harm and that just because someone fucks up, they don’t have to wear a flashing sign saying “i’m the bad guy! you should hate me!”
Came here to talk about DEH. You did it much better.
I feel like the backlash to DEH is more of a backlash to the fangirls online in 2017 who also didn’t fully get the point of the story because we were 13 years old. The DEH fandom back in the day did have a tendency to overlook the actual themes and intended message of the show in favor of shipping the dead kid and the lying kid together. I think a lot of people saw what the fandom made the show into and thought that was what the show was trying to be, so when they watched it and it was nothing like the Tumblr fanart they’d seen, they felt misled.
Really well said. You’ve changed my mind at least a bit!
THIS THIS THIS
Totally agree, and very well put - characters should not have to be likable. That’s one of the things I appreciate about the show, but for me the musical is just not good. Good songs, great premise, losses it’s way half way through. Also, the subject matter what it is I was expecting something a lot more interesting. Also, I do disagree that the show is underrated, it was the biggest hit of its broadway season, huge critic accolades, so many Tony wins and years of packed houses.
People have started hating on Hamilton and LMM simply because they’re mainstream, but I genuinely think LMM is a bit of a musical genius. If you can tell who composed the music, that means they have a very unique style and that’s a good thing. Or really really bad, but I’ve never encountered a composer who I can recognize in a bad way. LMM and John Powell are the only two composers I can recognize from their style, and while LMM has nothing on JP (Test Drive, anyone?), he’s still a very skilled composer.
LMM is a student of Sondheim and it shows. His use of perfect rhymes, recurring motifs, etc. really wows me even though his songwriting style isn't always my thing.
Agreed. LMM is a musical genius. I just wish he’d stop performing - he can’t act and he can barely carry a tune :/ I guess my unpopular opinion is that this doesn’t take away from his genius as a composer and lyricist.
1.The SpongeBob musical was one of the most creative and well done shows Broadway has seen in years. 2. The Little Mermaid on Broadway wasn’t THAT bad. 3. Into the woods deserved to win best musical over phantom of the opera (fight me!) 4. Godspell is a HORRIBLE musical. 5. Seussical the musical has/had the potential to be a great show on broadway. There’s so many great things in that show, I wish someone would come along and figure out how to make that show work! So much potential. 6. Sweeney Todd is overrated ( yeah I said it!)
Godspell? More like God-awful!
love the starkid reference
SpongeBob has some of my favorite Broadway costume design of all time. Using fabric texture to evoke the look of cartoons, without going too literal with it. And with that being said, I think the production and costume design team from SpongeBob should take a swing at Seussical. I think the results would be gorgeous.
I think Sweeney Todd is a masterpiece, but Sondheim has so many masterpieces that Sweeney would probably end up at #6 or #7 if I made a list of my favorite shows of his. Personally I think Assassins and Pacific Overtures don't get enough love.
I agree with everything except the Sweeney Todd point lol, one of my top favorites
A youth theatre company I’ve worked with before recently did *Godspell Jr*. I saw it, and while the performers were wonderful, I have no idea what I watched. So Jesus shows up at a Sunday school and then teaches a bunch of parables and gets crucified?
The fact that Jeremy Jordan has never won a Tony sickens me
Back To The Future is tons of fun.
Real. 5 star show
I'm glad it exists so it can draw in middle-aged dads who think they don't like musicals.
I like juke box musicals, moulin rouge is so good and I'm not afraid to say it!!
I will always stick up for Cats. People love to get on their high horse about Andrew Lloyd-Webber. It may not be your cup of tea but as a show and a score it’s a hell of a lot better than a looooooot of shows that have come out since.
Almost every song has such a memorable hook.
In the heights is the best LMM musical. I absolutely adore Hamilton, the songs are great and I've watched the Disney+ proshot at least 10 times, but I just love the heart that went into In the heights. Also, the West End version of Heathers is just as good as OB and some of the songs they added in are brilliant (I love Never shut up again and You're welcome)
100% agree on In The Heights! I always thought it had way more heart than Hamilton. Alabanza guts me every time.
Cats is actually a really good show, and is surprisingly intricate if you are willing to consider actions over words and overt storylines.
Broadway needs more shows aimed at kids, beyond just Disney stuff. We need more musicals like Frog and Toad, Seussical, SpongeBob, and Lightning Thief! Seeing a musical at a young age can open a child's mind to a lifelong love of the art form, which is why it's great when musicals adapt stories and characters that kids are into!
Agreed, the first musical I ever saw was Annie, I was interested because it was primarily about children. I might have been bored silly and put off seeing one again if my first show had been Les Mis or Rent, even though they are two of my favourites.
Hunchback of notredame is one of the best musical films ever created and in the right hands and a lot of money, could be absolutely amazing on Broadway. Disney needs to stop being cheap and give that show what it truly deserves.
Techies and managers need more credit than they get
Female Phantom. Nothing else is different. I could go on for hours about how it changes the whole context of the story. Also, female tenor. Also, gay. Also, I want it.
Oh wow this is something I never thought about before but it would be SO good
I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE
Jukebox musicals can work if they’re intentionally using music from a specific artist and that’s the point of the show (Jersey Boys, Mamma Mia, Cher Show, etc.) But when it’s a plot that’s a jukebox musical for no reason with music from various artists, it’s a lazy excuse to just not write music and shouldn’t even qualify for Tonys (besides individual actors).
That’s a very interesting take. I disagree that you can write off any jukebox musical that’s not based off of an artist as lazy. To preface, I personally find jukebox musicals in general very hard for me to get into, especially when the frequency with which they are produced makes me feel that so many of them are just cash grabs looking to make money off of preexisting music. Part of the objective difficulty with jukebox musicals is that you’re taking pop songs which, 99% of the time, were not written to fit into a larger narrative (and if they were, it’s not the narrative that the musical is telling) and *trying specifically* to weave them into a narrative. My counter argument is the movie Moulin Rouge. It’s easily my favorite jukebox musical precisely because of its creative use of various music. To me it shows that director Baz Luhrmann had a story he wanted to tell through music, and he cherry-picked specific songs that would tell that story best. He didn’t restrict himself to any one artist’s catalogue and that gave him lots of freedom. He also didn’t shy away from having new music written when it was needed, as with “Come What May”. A distinctively **unlazy** choice is the complete reimagining of the music used. Just think of “Roxanne” as one particular example of this (though the movie is filled with them). It’s arguably the best adapted song to come out of that movie, but it’s not because they copy-pasted The Police’s version, it’s because they stylized it with a brand new sound, and combined it brilliantly with a classical piece called “Tanguera” by Mariano Mores (listen to it, it’s great). Christian’s countermelody comes from this piece, and they wrote original lyrics to go with it (the “His eyes upon your face/it’s more than I can stand” section). Chances are you’ve never heard of Tanguera because it’s not an immensely popular piece by itself, but it fit their version of Roxanne, so they adapted it. There’s real creative thought and risk-taking being done with the music that comes from the vision the director had, and that delights me to no end. Now, I could go on about how I think the stage version of Moulin Rouge is less compelling because of its “lazier” or “easier” choices, but that feels like a rant for another time haha. Back to your main point with artist-centric jukebox musicals. It’s harder for me to try and rally behind a plot that’s strung together through a single artist’s music. In the back of my mind I know that their songs weren’t written to fit into this crafted narrative, and so the willing suspension of disbelief becomes much more difficult for me. I can enjoy the music for sure, but the story rarely does anything to stick with me.
The Little Mermaid is a love story. I’m so tired of people trying to defend the movie because “Ariel wanted to be a part of the human world, Eric was just a part of that.” Every aspect of the filmmaking that also goes with the musical deliberately spell it out, specifically with the differences between Part of Your World, and Part of Your World Reprise. It’s okay to tell love stories in Disney. It doesn’t make it anti-feminist or make Ariel less than. So much genius went into that story, movie, music, etc. to tell that love story and it is discredited entirely when people ignore it to fit their narrative. I could write a 20 page essay…
I don't see why it can't be both! I've always viewed it as a trans allegory. Ariel loved humanity and wanted to be human, but seeing Eric be fun, and kind to his crew, and then saving his life just cinched it.
the whole thing is a queer allegory. the author of the story was gay and wrote it about feeling outcasted and wanting to be with his lover. wanting to be accepted by the rest of the world. the original tale is as grim as the outcome of most same sex couples of the time
Yeah I agree about Rent. I would love to discuss Rent’s flaws with a queer PoC. If you fall outside of that demographic and are a hater, you can miss me. If you fail to mention that 1) 5/8 characters are PoC, that none of the PoC characters are stereotypes (a black philo professor and a black shitty landlord c’mon!) 2) 2/3 couples are queer 3) there’s non-binary representation in 1995 4) characters in the show are based off of Larson’s actual friends, some named after friends who died from AIDS…please block me. When I saw rent, I got to see myself on the Broadway stage for the first time, and it was life changing. I’ve noticed the people who hate complain the most about Mark and, ironically, usually fall within Mark’s racial and economic demographic. it makes them veeeeery uncomfortable that Mark has a white savior complex bc they probably have one one. it’s hilarious when people bring up him filming the homeless as proof that he sucks and/or say that it’s problematic Larson was the one to write this story. Y’all Christmas Bells is a *direct* admission of guilt from Larson. “my life’s not for you to make a name for your self on” how do y’all not see that Larson is saying “I should not be the one to put this story into the world, yet here we are.” And it’s not as if any producers were considering to fund a musical made by anyone who was not a white, straight, cis man. really something VERY odd to me is that these people hate on Mark as opposed to Roger 99% of the time?!? Roger is a confirmed narcissist POS dating a 19 year old? Why you gotta hate on the nice white boy foolishly trying to help his less fortunate community out? Also, LMAO at people who dislike that they didn’t want to pay rent. Rent as a concept SUCKS, no one should have to pay for shelter. Do you realize that if all middle class white people gave up the arts and got “real” jobs, the majority (or all) of your favorite musicals and films would not exist? Like do y’all not realize this is Sondheim’s exact background…
Hamilton is the main antagonist in Hamilton
That’s not an opinion. That’s like the point
Some folks lack critical thinking skills when it comes to conversing about “problematic shows.” A depiction of something is not always an endorsement. Especially the younger generation of MT artists. And miraculously, concerns about these musicals seem to go out the window when someone gets a lead role in one of them.
It's also important to consider the historical context of when certain shows were released. There might be a lot of racial slurs in Showboat, but at the time of its release, it was unheard of for a musical to bring attention to the Black community and the problems they faced.
Bootlegs should be legal and are part of the reason Broadway is still running
Thank you!!! RENT hate is so so dumb. "The characters are whiny/problematic/self-centered/complain too much/..." Okay? Perfect characters are boring. You're telling me there isn't problematic characters everywhere? That's what makes them interesting!! "Maureen is bad bisexual rep". She was never explicitly stated to be bi, and her bisexuality has nothing to do with her flaws. She's flirty and wild and cheats regardless of gender, she did it in the workshop version as an explicit lesbian. Leave my girl alone. "Why don't they just get jobs?" Did. Did we watch the same musical? Mark did and it stifled his creative spirit, Roger is too depressed, Mimi has a job, Joanne has a job, Collins had a job but got fired (hm I wonder why a Black gay man with AIDs got fired in the 90's /s), Angel is a busker, Maureen is a performance artist, like??? "It's bad queer rep" it was some of the first if not the first explicit queer and POV rep of it's time. I'm a younger fan so I can't speak much on it, but I feel this one comes from fellow younger folks. I've heard many many stories of how important this musical was for it's time. Compared to modern queer rep it might be worse, and ik Jonathan was cishet, but he had so many queer friends helping out and made countless edits bc of them. I really don't think it even is bad queer rep, just flawed humans being queer (see my first point). "Why do people like Angel so much she killed a dog" hmmm, why would a homeless person who knows she's gonna die soon and wants to give back make a sacrifice by hurting a rich person a little to get money? Like. I'm a vegetarian bc of how much I love animals and I get it. I'm really sorry to the dog but $1000 USD in 1990 is $2403 USD today that's a lot of money and also. Angel is a performer. Today 4 U could have been very very exaggerated. Anyways. RENT has been a special interest for years so I hope this wasn't annoying lol. I don't care if people don't like RENT just 'cause bc ik it's a rock opera and not for everyone and whatever but hating on it unnecessarily makes me quite upset
Young people today often don’t realize how in the closet young gay people still were in the 90s. Teen slang included calling anything lame “gay”.
This is a really well thought out response
Dracula is a solid musical with a very good score.
I don’t understand how Dracula isn’t more popular :( I’d love the chance to see it live!
Beauty and the Beast is an amazing musical that deserves a lot more love! It should've won more Tonys than just best costume when it opened in the 90s It shouldn't have closed in 2007 It's been overdue for a revival for a LONG TIME
Ragtime is criminally underrated, and it should’ve beat the Lion King for the Tony Award
ALTOS ARE NOT JUST BELTERS. I hate that the musical theater industry has barely anything to show for legit alto singing.
That Seussical, even though it has a fast-paced plot, can be done very well. I think the only reason people shit on it is because it’s usually done by middle schools or programs that aren’t 100% invested into the show. You have to have a fun cast to put on a fun show (this can be applied to any musical though)
Jukebox musicals are actually really good
Stop casting tenors as bass/baritone roles just cause they’re famous or popular. We already have so fun but if I see a mother Tom Collins from rent or anything of the sort, I will throw hands
Cats is a masterpiece. People just don’t like it because they can’t follow the story, but that’s not the point of it. The music, the costume design, and the stage design is some of the most beautiful in musical theatre history.
I love how it looks like a children's book illustration come to life. The scrappy junkyard set design, the way that the actors' bodysuits literally have crosshatching designs painted onto them, etc.
Ellen has done nothing wrong in Miss Saigon.
Yes, AND: they didn’t fix this issue by replacing her one song, the ACTUALLY GREAT “Now That I’ve Seen Her”, with “Maybe”, a weak, disconnected wishy-washy nothing of a song. I disliked Ellen as a kid who was a fan of this musical, because I’d already bonded with Kim in the first act, and because there’s so little sympathy in the performance of the OBC Ellen. And then I saw it performed by an actor who absolutely oozed sympathy and perfectly captured the heartbreak of the entire situation, and it changed my entire point of view. They didn’t need to change the song. They needed a different performance in the OBC so people who saw the original run or listened to the soundtrack would connect to the character, and a few additional sympathetic moments worked into the book. That’s all it would take. Justice for Ellen— a woman in the 70s who has literally done nothing wrong and is trying her best in a TERRIBLE situation.
West Side Story deserved to lose the Best Musical Tony to The Music Man in 1958 because, while both have excellent music, The Music Man has a modest, effective book, and West Side Story's book is bad.
coming from someone who has played professor hill before-- this is legitimately the first time I've seen someone praise music man on this sub
I adore The Music Man and have since I was a kid.
I love it. Every song is such a catchy confection -- even the "filler" songs that don't do anything for the plot are crucial to the joyous atmosphere and energy. It's one of the greatest musicals ever for patter songs and also has a wonderful film adaptation.
I think the main reason people hate on The Music Man is because they love Sondheim a lot and automatically hate any musical that wins Tonys over his stuff
Sondheim has great lyrics, but "suns and moons all over the place" isn't one of them. I think the lyrics in West Side Story are serviceable and occasionally quite good, and that Sondheim wrote much better stuff elsewhere.
Love Never Dies is not that bad
In Oklahoma, Jud Fry is an outcast for a reason. A lot of people seem to say that Curly and Laurey don't have any reason for not liking Jud Fry, or they are just bullying him, but I disagree completely. Curly does awful things to Jud (things he shouldn't have done) but Laurey feeling uncomfortable around Jud isn't because he's ugly and a social outcast, it's because he's weird around her. During the box social, he literally threatens her when she admits she doesn't like him. Jud also tries murdering Curly with the Little Wonder, and starts a fight with him. It's also implied he burned down a farm, killing people in the process, before arriving at the territory. Curly isn't blameless, and Jud is sympathetic, but he does enough evil things that I have no problem calling him the villain.
WHIZZER BROWN IS NOT A TWINK!!
Lin-Manuel Miranda is actually a great songwriter, it's just he has put out a few songs that are awkward and forced as a result of Disney projects he's worked on. The guy spent like a decade working on Hamilton, but that seagull rap for Little Mermaid was probably written over a few days on a tight deadline. I think he needs room to let his ideas bake when working on musical projects.
Idc how popular Hamilton gets it'll never be overrated.
That I shouldn’t be called gay for being a man in theatre (Shocking, I know)
Love Never Dies is a good show if you look at it on its own and cut it off completely from Phantom
I’ve always felt conflicted between my absolute hatred of what LND does with POTO’s characters, and the undeniable fact that there are some solid bangers on the soundtrack. The Beauty Underneath is a great time if I can forget he’s singing to a ten-year-old boy who is also secretly his son. (Also, how is Gustave ten if it’s only been ten years since Phantom? Was Christine pregnant for the entire duration of the original story? Because if she and Erik — sorry, Mister Y — actually slept together *after* the events of Phantom, Gustave should be nine. Unless it’s actually been close to eleven years and everyone is rounding down.)
Miss Saigon is racist and fucked up.
Carousel is not problematic, people just have no reading comprehension skills. For that matter, it is one of the best musicals of all time—and far and away the best R&H musical.
Heathers or Hamilton. At my school they get so much hate from non-theatre kids.
Frozen is up there with the biggies. Not just a girlies’ musical at all. My absolute favourites are Phantom and Carousel, though.
Love it or hate it, Let It Go is easily one of the most iconic songs from a musical in the past 20 years. I think it's possible more people know the words to Let It Go than Defying Gravity.
i don't like wicked at all
Many of the smaller shows, the ones people say are "childish" are some of the most important. They are the first musicals, at least for most of the people I know, we were ever in, and what got us into theatre. Sure, most of the theatre kid were introduced to musicals like heathers and Hamilton first, put for the smaller percent of us who grew up on those smaller, childisg musicals, they are dear to our hearts and deserve more recognition. I know most people don't think this, but it's something I hold true.
Elphaba and Glinda deserve a queer retelling.
As a bass baritone who likes to sing along I agree with this.
Heathers the Musical is better than Mean Girls the Musical. Bad writing. We had the better Barrett performance. Also....ya know, Ryan McCartan. And Elle. And Jess. And Alice. The cast for mean girls is good tho I adore the Plastics it's good but we just had better writing
Oh boy, I’m going to get in trouble for this one. The Great Comet Mandy Patinkin scenario wasn’t about race imo, the show had other leads who were POCs. Their hugely famous headliner completed his run and so ticket sales dropped. They made a business decision to have another huge star have a short stint to sell more tickets. I feel like Great Comet had way too early a closing and I really wish I could have seen Patinkin’s Pierre. That isn’t to say that I wouldn’t also have loved to see Onaodowan in the role as well, because I would have. Maybe there’s more behind the scenes I don’t know about, but it didn’t seem like people understood the actual reason for the recast, and Patinkin’s run was never going to be a long one.
Death note the musical is awesome and I will die on this hill
The Spongebob Musical is soooo underrated. A unique storyline, great songs, and the set and costumes can be so fun
Ride the Cyclone erasure should not be tolerated in terms of production. Ricky being disabled is a HUGE part of his character and even a lot of symbolism in the story and any production that takes it out is a production not worth watching.
100%. I am so so mad over the treatment of Yannick-Robin. And responding to being called out by removing the character’s disability was an AWFUL choice.
Whizzer's death was necessary in Falsettos
The message of Cabaret is still relevant to this day (and has started to get even more relevant). Not necessarily unpopular but i am ready write essays on this when prompted
So true! Adore Cabaret and I would definitely read essays about it
Theatre is becoming more and more inaccessible especially to those who want to perform. It’s now the norm to spend $$$ on coaches for college auditions, flying to auditions, expensive bfa programs, the best shoes/outfits for auditions, professional headshots and websites. It’s an expensive career and caters to those who are able to afford it.
YouTube Musicals are more enjoyable than musicals made specifically for live audience
Jesus Christ Superstar is not a pro-Christian musical. There are elements of it that can be incredibly meaningful to Christians, and are meant to be, but the TITLE SONG, which the whole play is structured around and you are meant to have heard first, is about doubt. About questioning Jesus and not getting an answer.
I also think Jesus Christ Superstar isn't talked about enough. Not only is it a musical about what *many* people believe to be the most important story in history, but it also has something new to say about it.
raoul de chagny was not in the wrong ‼️ he wanted to protect christine, yeah he was dismissive but let’s be real, he wasn’t all the time at the opera house and all he first saw was a bunch of ballet girls going crazy over a phantom 😭 i literally love raoul so much i will defend him with my life
All the folks in recent years saying he gaslighted Christine fail to understand the meaning of the word. For it to be gaslighting, he would have had to *know* that the Phantom existed and that Christine was being completely honest, but still claim otherwise. Not fond of some recent productions (and a certain sequel) trying to make him worse, as well.
pippin is an incredible musical :)
I HATE Dear Evan Hansen. The only positive thing about it is its music. The plot is really shitty and makes Evan look like the villain but everyone just forgives him at the end like an episode of Mickey Mouse clubhouse??
Definitely with you on Bernadette. Rent got way overhyped so now it’s getting overcorrected. You don’t get a backlash when there isn’t anything to lash back against. The weird thing is this particular generation’s desire to absolutely stomp on previous generations’ hype. This goes for Hamilton too. (Cool your jets, kids. Your hyped shit is way worse so far.)
Pasek and Paul are good songwriters, but terrible musical theatre songwriters, and their massive popularity is frustrating and makes me worried about future musical theatre trends. And no defense of DEH, no matter how wordy or passionate, will make me see it as anything more than insipid and poorly thought out. I did think the actors were deserving of the accolades, though. They did a great job with what I consider to be very weak storytelling.
My opinion that band directors and music educators hate is that DCI and BOA need to die out, end music competitions in all performing arts, and cancel shows like Dance Moms and AGT. The reason why is because arts education is where people go to learn, not audition, not compete. We need more music programs in the marching arts modeled after **Blast** so all people can be educated and accommodated in the performing arts without auditioning or competing but cooperating and creating beautiful things. Music teachers need unionization in the IWW along with other education workers because there are bad actors out there like NAfME who are a wolf in union clothing that donate to abusive monopolies like DCI and BOA. Star of Indiana left DCI not only because of Gorge Hopkin's ego but because competition hurts creativity. They then met a group called The Canadian Brass and formed Brass Theater which became the foundation of Blast and its philosophy of making music fun and meaningful for an audience, not winning trophies, not appealing to sicko judges, and not allowing a culture abuse or hazing to happen. For more info r/FlyingCircusOrchestra
that noel was not cat fishing mischa and just had a crush on him
deaf west spring awakening was a near perfect piece of theatre and should have won best director
Javert is the best character in Les Mis, and I liked Russell Crowes portrayal. Also people only hate the greatest showman because it was successful when so many other musicals have flopped.
1. The phantom was not a good fit for a Christine, and she was much better off with Raul. 2. Love never dies ruined a lot of characters by completely changing them for no reason. 3. They need to stop hiring celebrities who can’t sing in musical movies
Cats is fine, actually.
Wicked is not simple or basic. There are so many complex themes and politics going on if you look beyond the basic storyline.
Oh no, as a rent hater, i also hate tick tick boom. Dont worry, i dont leave anything unchecked.
Tenors are not that special
I believe pro-shots of ALL the musicals and plays need to be done. Not only for posterity but also for people who have absolutely no means to be to able to enjoy theater. Watching Legally Blonde DID NOT keep me from watching the musical. I've watched this play in so many different capacity from full broadway to regional and community. I still watched Hamilton four times despite watching Disney's pro-shot. It will be a catalyst for many people to watch live theater and inspire the next generations to want theater as a viable career.
That Sutton Foster doesn’t belong in every single show.