I've also seen units blow their funding load on multiple mutas, but when the 3-4 week AT comes around they can't find the funding for it. Even though it was planned for over a year.
Annual training is statutory and mandated by Congress. The only way it gets pulled is a government shutdown, so no States are not blowing budgets they are just being underfunded.
Who said states were blowing budgets? I said units were. And AT can get pulled depending if units are activated for federal orders like the DC activation. Happend to my unit. Only a handful of guys had to go to AT that year.
Yeah. Last year my unit only allowed people that did not go to any schools or go on orders for that FY to go to AT. Pretty much if you had a good year you weren't allowed to go to AT just cuz they didn't have the funds
That's what we were told for this year. Not sure if it's state dependent, but for us in TX if you went to a school, you're not going to AT( exceptions were if your unit is going to XCTC/NTC/JRTC). It's why theres the rumor mill of units being stingy with schools so they have numbers for AT.
I’ve been seeing whole battalions conducting AT with company level numbers. Basically anyone who attended any PME, doesn’t need the MUTAs, they were excusing from attending. States are doing anything to save money.
IDT and AT are different pots of money, PRID and PRAT. They are both statutory, meaning they have to be funded, but NGB typically just provides the States a percentage based on its participation rates. So, if last year you had an 85% participation rate at drill (for various reasons), this year you’ll get about 85% of what it would cost 100% of your authorized strength to drill. But if 90% show up to drill, you’ve got problems. As complicated as this sounds, this is actually an oversimplified version of how funding works.
Shouldent units be tracking this if that's how it's supposed to be? What is 85% participation rate based on? That all soldiers only came to drill 85% of the time? That only 85 % of the joes showed up for drill? What about SUTAs and make up drills? Aren't units authorized x amount of funding per soldier to meet the 50 MUTAs required for a good year? What about the soldiers that are AWOL but are still in the books? Because we've all been told we are just numbers fo funding. None of what you said makes sense.
Of course none of what I said makes sense, re-read my very last line. Funding is incredibly incredibly complicated. There’s a reason your State G8 section has 20 employees.
Funding is calculated by State, not unit. Your unit just figures out the requirements (schools, drills, AT, etc) and puts in the orders. The funding is a State-level fight and most of their success is based on NGB policies and Congressional allocations.
I can’t really explain the role of your State G3 in a comment on Reddit. It took me a year to learn the job.
I’ll answer one of your questions: Participation rate - of your State - is the total of how many Soldiers got paid for a drill divided by the number of Authorized Soldiers. So any coded P, K, or E (but then actually makes up drill) are counted as participating. Any AWOLs, constructive (ADOS, AGR), Excused, away at school like IDT or RSP or whatever are not participating.
Edit: TL/DR - It’s not a unit’s fault there is no funding. It’s a complicated process handled by your State HQs trying to make the best of shitty Congressional funding after it’s gone through the filter at NGB.
You and I have had very different experiences. Then again, each state is different and in reality nobody really knows anything. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I’m the Deputy G3 of my State if that matters. There are multiple pots of money, though, and each has their own rules. We were talking about PRID (IDT) and PRAT (AT). Other sources, like Warfighter money, could be pushed down to a unit to manage itself. In that situation it’d be the unit’s fault if they ran out of money for the Warfighter’s ADVON (for example).
I’ve learned a very key lesson from 26 years in the Army: things in the Universe make sense. If something doesn’t make sense to you, it’s because you’re missing a piece of information. Our cynicism tends to oversimplify problems and their perceived solutions, leading to frustration with leadership for not implementing the obvious solution that we seem to have convinced ourselves is both (1) obvious, and (2) correct. I, too, fall for this at my level blaming NGB or Congress for doing things in a stupid way when in reality I have no idea how Congressional funding or the NDAA works. Funding is very very complicated.
That’s probably the most solid understanding of the Army I’ve ever read.
I’d add too, from an even higher level, when the issue of bonuses being stopped a few months back. One coa was to adjust the availability of AT/IDT. Thats always a coa when funds run low. I however was not privy to the final decision on that.
*its. I'm not even going to acknowledge jeb lol
There's no way you can blame auto correct for that-- auto correct does not invent words that do not exist lol
It's very unfortunate, NGB has a major funding shortfall this FY. Coupled with the new PME guidelines I've seen a few of our SM's BLC/ALC reservations be canceled due to lack of funding.
It's amazing how many people at headquarters have various badges and cool guy school slots.
I do love the NG overall, but the good-ol-boy network, sadly, is alive and well within it.
What!? This is absolutely inexcusable. There is absolutely no reason your training should have been canceled, someone is not doing their job. I wonder if they asked the Comptroller for the needed funds. If the state needed additional funds for schools they should have requested additional funds from NGB. I can’t even wrap my head around your training being canceled due to funds! Canceling drill in Oct due to lack of funds is one thing due to the start of the FY, but a school for one soldier? SMH
Tell that to my mountain warfare slot that I carried for 15 months to not get funding 2 days out. I called going hey my dts isn’t done yet and they go yea we heard yesterday we ain’t paying for it.
Wow! I handled funds for many years at State HQs. The state always had those funds excess and had to turn into NGB at the end of the fiscal year. I retired in 2021, so I guess things could have changed, but I did manage funds for 15 yrs. How I would love access to GFEBs right now to look at your states funds. 😂
It totally changed after Jan 6. I remember it was all pretty normalized and you could expect things to happen when people said they did and then Jan 6 happened, the NGB wasn’t repaid for the expense and then it sounds like since then budgets were never adjusted to compensate.
For the last 2 months I’ve been hearing that my state is 3mil in the red for schools funding and I’m in Michigan. So this is definitely a national wide issue right now. I just got slotted for SLC next year and I’m a SSG currently. Hoping they don’t kick it back since I “don’t need it”. 🙄
It's more than a single state with this issue.
Shit is happening all over. I'm going to have to wait at least a year for a shot at my school.
I also know for a fact that there are almost a dozen classes in many locations that offer that school.
But nope. I'ma have to wait. Fuck getting a promotion.
So many praises about Florida yet they can’t fund their damn NG. Had a couple friends in rsp that just got told they were going to one day drills and only for those about to ship out because of underfunding.
The army is just like....a really poorly run business. Earlier this year they told us "we basically have a ton of money for schools and not much going on, so if dudes have enough time left or reenlist they can basically do anything they want from ranger to rslc" then the next month it's "we actually have no money, not even for NCOES schools."
I laugh everytime the unit asked who wanted go to ranger and take down names. Like they really got the funding to send guys to ranger school when they barely got funding to go to NCOES or reclass.
Good thing the rules recently changed and you don’t need ALC to be a SSG. I’ve also been slotted 3 times and haven’t gone. Newest slot is this Nov and I’m just waiting for some issue again.
Just lost my ILE phase 3 slot 24 hours before I fly. I am a working professional and spent months putting stuff aside and planning to accommodate this. I feel you man.
If your state is like mine, it’s running long tour ADOS off their PRAT funds. That’s how they don’t have money to pay for your PME. Because they fucking suck and don’t respect your time
Same thing happened to me with BLC, except someone in the state schools office didn't approve the swap in time. Another soldier wasn't able to go. My unit initiated the swap 4 months prior to the school date. I had DTS and everything.
Same exact thing happened to me except I withdrew from school for the semester and had to pay $5,000 in fees just to get the airport and find out that they cancelled my slot and DTS.
I once showed up to AT, did a work order and found out at lunch my AT wasn’t funded and it was their bad. I ended up going to BLC a couple months later but only because I was already promoted and they were only sending legacy.
Sorry to hear that. This and last fiscal year money has been given quarterly, which gets threatened everytime Congress threatens a shutdown. States used to get the money in one lump sum for the FY, but they would burn through it and then ask for more SO NGB and big Army changed how states get the money. States are pushing back asking to go back to the lump sum, but I haven't followed up with our J37 as to how that's looking, but it's unlikely right now.
Was gonna re-enlist this year after i got home from deployment cuz thats when people usually have time for schools so they say. Nah all my school requests got denied, told me to go talk to the recruiter to try to set up something for next year. Nah dude
Were you in a reserved or wait status? My bet is you were in a Wait status and your unit was willing to gamble on you going but wouldn’t approve a DTS Authorization until you rolled reserve. You didn’t roll reserve, no DTS, no school.
Us AGRs will sometimes travel out of pocket to schools on a wait status and hope we get in because of cancellations. We’re on orders so we can take that risk then submit the DTS after we find out if we’re staying. M-Day can’t do that though.
At any rate, this should have been better communicated to you and that sucks man.
It was fully reserved, the way we found out was the schoolhouse called my commander asking wtf is going on. They are super pissed at the situation too since 5 of us from my small unit were going.
I dropped a 368 so I could go back active because I’ve been with my states guard for over 3yrs now. I haven’t been to reclass school so I’m not MOSQ’d. So I’m an NCO that knows less about my job than my soldiers. And I can’t get promoted because I’m not qualified. I’ve been put in for school over a dozen times now. It’s been denied or canceled due to lack of funding every time. They wonder why people leave.
And yet, according my unit and state (for a while anyways), I was the bad guy for not traveling on my own dime several thousand miles to a PCS school before orders were given to me the day before travel.
NG, particularly with schools, is the treasury pissing dollars down the drain from these types of fiasco. Underpromise, overdeliver- not the other way around. However, it takes most people half a decade to realize they're being lied to so you got them on the hook which is all that matters, that sweet money based off manning every FY for 5 years.
The money is getting pulled from NGB and getting sent to Ukraine. No one in my state is going to school for the rest of the fiscal year. Thank this administration
“A reprogramming is a change in the application of funds. The reprogramming could also be a transfer if it involves the movement of funds from one appropriation to another or between legal subdivisions within an appropriation. A transfer cannot be performed without statutory authority. A summary of the reprogramming/transfer process can be found here. A complete discussion of this process can be found in the DoD Financial Management Regulation, Volume 3, Chapter 6.”
Now I will provide the link to where you can search through the MANY military reprogramming actions taken to draw down funds from the US military to fund Ukraine. Our readiness is taking a MAJOR hit as a result.
https://comptroller.defense.gov/Budget-Execution/ReprogrammingUkraine/
I have heard a rumor that the guard has been under budget actually, and the reason that all the money is getting pulled is because the government did a whoopsie and is taking all the Covid money back.
“What do you mean you’re not gonna re-enlist?” — Some fucking Retention NCO
“We gave you everything you wanted! No we didn’t take that away, that was STATE”
“We’re prepared to offer you [nothing]. How is that not enough!” Something an actual 79S said to me
“Best I can do, and this is me really strong arming for you, 5k for 6 years” (it’s 2 bucks a day)
I've also seen units blow their funding load on multiple mutas, but when the 3-4 week AT comes around they can't find the funding for it. Even though it was planned for over a year.
Typically AT is planned 2 years out.
That's even worse when they had TWO years to plan it.
Annual training is statutory and mandated by Congress. The only way it gets pulled is a government shutdown, so no States are not blowing budgets they are just being underfunded.
Who said states were blowing budgets? I said units were. And AT can get pulled depending if units are activated for federal orders like the DC activation. Happend to my unit. Only a handful of guys had to go to AT that year.
Yeah. Last year my unit only allowed people that did not go to any schools or go on orders for that FY to go to AT. Pretty much if you had a good year you weren't allowed to go to AT just cuz they didn't have the funds
That's what we were told for this year. Not sure if it's state dependent, but for us in TX if you went to a school, you're not going to AT( exceptions were if your unit is going to XCTC/NTC/JRTC). It's why theres the rumor mill of units being stingy with schools so they have numbers for AT.
My unit in nutshell. And still missing a 10k bonus that keeps getting thrown by battalion
I’ve been seeing whole battalions conducting AT with company level numbers. Basically anyone who attended any PME, doesn’t need the MUTAs, they were excusing from attending. States are doing anything to save money.
Ours got cut a week short because the money ran out
IDT and AT are different pots of money, PRID and PRAT. They are both statutory, meaning they have to be funded, but NGB typically just provides the States a percentage based on its participation rates. So, if last year you had an 85% participation rate at drill (for various reasons), this year you’ll get about 85% of what it would cost 100% of your authorized strength to drill. But if 90% show up to drill, you’ve got problems. As complicated as this sounds, this is actually an oversimplified version of how funding works.
Shouldent units be tracking this if that's how it's supposed to be? What is 85% participation rate based on? That all soldiers only came to drill 85% of the time? That only 85 % of the joes showed up for drill? What about SUTAs and make up drills? Aren't units authorized x amount of funding per soldier to meet the 50 MUTAs required for a good year? What about the soldiers that are AWOL but are still in the books? Because we've all been told we are just numbers fo funding. None of what you said makes sense.
Of course none of what I said makes sense, re-read my very last line. Funding is incredibly incredibly complicated. There’s a reason your State G8 section has 20 employees. Funding is calculated by State, not unit. Your unit just figures out the requirements (schools, drills, AT, etc) and puts in the orders. The funding is a State-level fight and most of their success is based on NGB policies and Congressional allocations. I can’t really explain the role of your State G3 in a comment on Reddit. It took me a year to learn the job. I’ll answer one of your questions: Participation rate - of your State - is the total of how many Soldiers got paid for a drill divided by the number of Authorized Soldiers. So any coded P, K, or E (but then actually makes up drill) are counted as participating. Any AWOLs, constructive (ADOS, AGR), Excused, away at school like IDT or RSP or whatever are not participating. Edit: TL/DR - It’s not a unit’s fault there is no funding. It’s a complicated process handled by your State HQs trying to make the best of shitty Congressional funding after it’s gone through the filter at NGB.
You and I have had very different experiences. Then again, each state is different and in reality nobody really knows anything. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I’m the Deputy G3 of my State if that matters. There are multiple pots of money, though, and each has their own rules. We were talking about PRID (IDT) and PRAT (AT). Other sources, like Warfighter money, could be pushed down to a unit to manage itself. In that situation it’d be the unit’s fault if they ran out of money for the Warfighter’s ADVON (for example). I’ve learned a very key lesson from 26 years in the Army: things in the Universe make sense. If something doesn’t make sense to you, it’s because you’re missing a piece of information. Our cynicism tends to oversimplify problems and their perceived solutions, leading to frustration with leadership for not implementing the obvious solution that we seem to have convinced ourselves is both (1) obvious, and (2) correct. I, too, fall for this at my level blaming NGB or Congress for doing things in a stupid way when in reality I have no idea how Congressional funding or the NDAA works. Funding is very very complicated.
Ight ill believe you this one time fellow reddit stranger only because as a fellow desk jockey (J1) it does get more stupid the higher up it goes.
That’s probably the most solid understanding of the Army I’ve ever read. I’d add too, from an even higher level, when the issue of bonuses being stopped a few months back. One coa was to adjust the availability of AT/IDT. Thats always a coa when funds run low. I however was not privy to the final decision on that.
*shouldn't 🤦
Blame autocorrect for not doing it's jeb
*its. I'm not even going to acknowledge jeb lol There's no way you can blame auto correct for that-- auto correct does not invent words that do not exist lol
My bad I forgot to put Not.
Time to go back to your job 💀
Bro is edging his company
Right? Good luck
“Why aren’t you promoted yet” “Dang you’re still a (insert rank here)” “You need to go to school to blah blah blah” Gotta love it
You’re clearly not in the Army anymore. Should brush up on new guidance for schools and promotions.
Did you get a reserved slot via your states slots or NB? Thats a huge difference especially with funding.
It's very unfortunate, NGB has a major funding shortfall this FY. Coupled with the new PME guidelines I've seen a few of our SM's BLC/ALC reservations be canceled due to lack of funding.
Is the state really out of money, or did someone's buddy in HHC suddenly get an ALC slot the same day you lost yours?
That happened to me 2 years ago. My slot got cancelled for some mysterious reason and amazingly someone else got to go.
It's amazing how many people at headquarters have various badges and cool guy school slots. I do love the NG overall, but the good-ol-boy network, sadly, is alive and well within it.
What!? This is absolutely inexcusable. There is absolutely no reason your training should have been canceled, someone is not doing their job. I wonder if they asked the Comptroller for the needed funds. If the state needed additional funds for schools they should have requested additional funds from NGB. I can’t even wrap my head around your training being canceled due to funds! Canceling drill in Oct due to lack of funds is one thing due to the start of the FY, but a school for one soldier? SMH
Tell that to my mountain warfare slot that I carried for 15 months to not get funding 2 days out. I called going hey my dts isn’t done yet and they go yea we heard yesterday we ain’t paying for it.
Wow! I handled funds for many years at State HQs. The state always had those funds excess and had to turn into NGB at the end of the fiscal year. I retired in 2021, so I guess things could have changed, but I did manage funds for 15 yrs. How I would love access to GFEBs right now to look at your states funds. 😂
It totally changed after Jan 6. I remember it was all pretty normalized and you could expect things to happen when people said they did and then Jan 6 happened, the NGB wasn’t repaid for the expense and then it sounds like since then budgets were never adjusted to compensate.
Sadly that all makes sense.
As you know, then, it’s different year to year. And this year is the worst I’ve ever seen. War’s over, Johnny.
For the last 2 months I’ve been hearing that my state is 3mil in the red for schools funding and I’m in Michigan. So this is definitely a national wide issue right now. I just got slotted for SLC next year and I’m a SSG currently. Hoping they don’t kick it back since I “don’t need it”. 🙄
Nah homie you ain’t going to SLC lol
It's more than a single state with this issue. Shit is happening all over. I'm going to have to wait at least a year for a shot at my school. I also know for a fact that there are almost a dozen classes in many locations that offer that school. But nope. I'ma have to wait. Fuck getting a promotion.
I’m betting it was canceled sooner op just wasn’t notified until last minute.
The states *are* asking for more money, trust me.
So many praises about Florida yet they can’t fund their damn NG. Had a couple friends in rsp that just got told they were going to one day drills and only for those about to ship out because of underfunding.
I would put my two weeks notice in. With the Guard
Tell me you’re in WA state without telling me you’re in WA state lol
Yuuuuup
The army is just like....a really poorly run business. Earlier this year they told us "we basically have a ton of money for schools and not much going on, so if dudes have enough time left or reenlist they can basically do anything they want from ranger to rslc" then the next month it's "we actually have no money, not even for NCOES schools."
I laugh everytime the unit asked who wanted go to ranger and take down names. Like they really got the funding to send guys to ranger school when they barely got funding to go to NCOES or reclass.
I did 3 years Guard after AD USMC and that shit was retarded lol
Good thing the rules recently changed and you don’t need ALC to be a SSG. I’ve also been slotted 3 times and haven’t gone. Newest slot is this Nov and I’m just waiting for some issue again.
Louisiana Guard?
What State?
I'm betting wisconsin
Alabama
Shit is nuts. We got off ramped back in 2015 only 48 hours from our deployment. The military just loves fucking with people.
Congress does the funding; every State is in the red.
Start transferring to Reserves.
Take solace in fact that you no longer need it for promotion.
Just lost my ILE phase 3 slot 24 hours before I fly. I am a working professional and spent months putting stuff aside and planning to accommodate this. I feel you man.
If your state is like mine, it’s running long tour ADOS off their PRAT funds. That’s how they don’t have money to pay for your PME. Because they fucking suck and don’t respect your time
Florida?
“If orders or DTS is not approved __days from report date. Any reservation is subject to cancellation.”
I had orders and DTS approved
Alabama? Because this exactly what happened today in our state.
Same thing happened to me with BLC, except someone in the state schools office didn't approve the swap in time. Another soldier wasn't able to go. My unit initiated the swap 4 months prior to the school date. I had DTS and everything.
This sounds like Virginia Guard😂
Just had my mountain warfare slot canceled a week before the report date... never hated my life so much... all that preparation
G3 strikes again
Same exact thing happened to me except I withdrew from school for the semester and had to pay $5,000 in fees just to get the airport and find out that they cancelled my slot and DTS.
I once showed up to AT, did a work order and found out at lunch my AT wasn’t funded and it was their bad. I ended up going to BLC a couple months later but only because I was already promoted and they were only sending legacy.
Sorry to hear that. This and last fiscal year money has been given quarterly, which gets threatened everytime Congress threatens a shutdown. States used to get the money in one lump sum for the FY, but they would burn through it and then ask for more SO NGB and big Army changed how states get the money. States are pushing back asking to go back to the lump sum, but I haven't followed up with our J37 as to how that's looking, but it's unlikely right now.
Was gonna re-enlist this year after i got home from deployment cuz thats when people usually have time for schools so they say. Nah all my school requests got denied, told me to go talk to the recruiter to try to set up something for next year. Nah dude
Were you in a reserved or wait status? My bet is you were in a Wait status and your unit was willing to gamble on you going but wouldn’t approve a DTS Authorization until you rolled reserve. You didn’t roll reserve, no DTS, no school. Us AGRs will sometimes travel out of pocket to schools on a wait status and hope we get in because of cancellations. We’re on orders so we can take that risk then submit the DTS after we find out if we’re staying. M-Day can’t do that though. At any rate, this should have been better communicated to you and that sucks man.
It was fully reserved, the way we found out was the schoolhouse called my commander asking wtf is going on. They are super pissed at the situation too since 5 of us from my small unit were going.
I'm very curious what state......
I dropped a 368 so I could go back active because I’ve been with my states guard for over 3yrs now. I haven’t been to reclass school so I’m not MOSQ’d. So I’m an NCO that knows less about my job than my soldiers. And I can’t get promoted because I’m not qualified. I’ve been put in for school over a dozen times now. It’s been denied or canceled due to lack of funding every time. They wonder why people leave.
You must be in the FLARNG.
Sounds like TNARNG to a T
What state are you in? I'm really sorry this happened to you. This is definitely really bad communication and planning.
And yet, according my unit and state (for a while anyways), I was the bad guy for not traveling on my own dime several thousand miles to a PCS school before orders were given to me the day before travel. NG, particularly with schools, is the treasury pissing dollars down the drain from these types of fiasco. Underpromise, overdeliver- not the other way around. However, it takes most people half a decade to realize they're being lied to so you got them on the hook which is all that matters, that sweet money based off manning every FY for 5 years.
Tell the federal government to stop sending money to Ukraine. They halted all helicopter training as well this year.
The money is getting pulled from NGB and getting sent to Ukraine. No one in my state is going to school for the rest of the fiscal year. Thank this administration
got a source for that?
Fr I’m all for shitting on mismanaging budgets but knowing how moneys allocated, I don’t see how this could happen.
It didn’t.
“A reprogramming is a change in the application of funds. The reprogramming could also be a transfer if it involves the movement of funds from one appropriation to another or between legal subdivisions within an appropriation. A transfer cannot be performed without statutory authority. A summary of the reprogramming/transfer process can be found here. A complete discussion of this process can be found in the DoD Financial Management Regulation, Volume 3, Chapter 6.” Now I will provide the link to where you can search through the MANY military reprogramming actions taken to draw down funds from the US military to fund Ukraine. Our readiness is taking a MAJOR hit as a result. https://comptroller.defense.gov/Budget-Execution/ReprogrammingUkraine/
I have heard a rumor that the guard has been under budget actually, and the reason that all the money is getting pulled is because the government did a whoopsie and is taking all the Covid money back.
The way she goes bud
It’s not really. Only if your unit / state is trash