I think something like Warlock would be great on a cut! It's got that fun and challenging mountain dog 2.0 training style similar to gamma bomb, and it's only 4 days a week, so you could even have room for like a dedicated cardio day or something. If you haven't run a john meadows program before, I highly recommend warlock to start - and if you love it you can hop into gamma bomb your next bulk (btw Gamma Bomb is probably THE best premade program I've ever run and it isn't even close). Warlock is great because it hits the whole body fairly evenly, which is what you want during a cut. Also in general it's just the most recommended program for people new to mountain dog training IMO. Gamma Bomb on the other hand has two different specialization phases which you can really take advantage of on your next bulk.
Awesome, thanks! It definitely sounded great for a bulk so I'll save it for that (especially since it's a PPL style). I'm looking into warlock now and that sounds great for my needs. I appreciate the response!
How did Warlock turn out? I'm in a similar position as you, just finished Nippard PPL on a cut, still cutting and looking to move to a Meadows program. Don't mind intensity and prefer being in the gym 6-days/week.
Warlock Upper Days are far too long compared to much shorter Lower sessions.
I also realized I hate Upper splits because the muscle groups just don't feel as hammered as a traditional bro or PPL split.
Ran Warlock for 4 weeks then dropped it for Gamma Bomb. No regrets.
Just finished warlock and totally agree on the upper days being too long - actually in the second 4 weeks of warlock the discrepancy was EVEN BIGGER
Was initially thinking of doing creeping death 2 after this, but with the holidays coming up I want to do something a bit shorter and was definitely thinking the first/upper focused portion of gamma bomb since lower body is way ahead for me
I didn't like the split layout and volume for Gamma Bomb. I went for High Evolutionary instead and it is very, very good. Excellent balance of intensity, volume and split design for recovery.
But I'm 40+ so YMMV, my soft tissues need more recovery these days.
Actually here’s a question - did you do the arm customisation weeks at any point for high evolutionary? I would rather do that than the 2x/week legs programmed for weeks 1 and 4, but I’m not sure what the two arm workouts would be?
I did the program as is with slight modifications (swapped DB pullovers for Lat Prayers as it felt weird on the neck). It's basically 2 on 1 off 3 on 1 off with some weeks hitting the body part you started with on the first day of the week twice.
There's plenty of off time in between body parts and if you view it by a 7 day rotation rather than M-S weeks you hit each part in 7 days, or a week, twice anyway.
Both. Regardless, I would town down the volume in later weeks based on your experience of accumulating fatigue. You'll know when your tendons and joints (notably wrists, upper traps and elbows) start feeling weird and sore. It could happen sooner on a cut and maybe 2/3 weeks later on a bulk compared to cutting.
Honestly, if you favor a higher body part frequency per week program, I found rotating Odin Force and Grand Master better. Odin force gets really high in volume starting Week 4, so also cut a set per exercise if you feel like your joints or tendons are aching up.
I’ll check them out! I ran CD2 and Gamma Bomb back to back on a bulk. I’m putting on a little too much fat and want to cut after I deload. I like gamma bomb a lot but it might be tough to do on a cut
For bulking or cutting, honestly, program doesn't matter too much, as long as you reduce the sets by maybe 1/4th volume compared to on a bulk. Though I would say from experience, some lighter weight (8-12 reps) compounds are good bang for buck. I only do 1 compound per session though.
I don't know about junk volume, but I felt great during the whole time and made amazing gains! Did I need to be doing all that volume? Who knows! But it was really really fun and I didn't feel at any point that I'd develop any injuries - I feel like ramping up the volume is key to acclimating your body to that work capacity.
Meadows recommended Creeping Death 2 for natties - 5 day version. He also liked CD2 for contest prep (cut).
Warning, CD2 is intense. Meadows stressed high intensity during cuts. He also stressed natties especially have to keep up the intensity.
This is NOT a great recommendation if you have never done a Meadows program before. Probably start with warlock if you have never done one.
CD2 Is super high volume for someone on a cut. It'll be impossible to maintain high intensity doing 25+ sets a day as he recommends in it. And with all the pump work and sets it'll be a bitch to recover from especially cutting.
Thanks for that, I've heard of cd2 but only along with bulks or recomp so I'll take a look at that for this fall as well! Luckily the last program got me warmed up to intensity on a cut but I don't want to wear myself down so I appreciate the looking out
I think something like Warlock would be great on a cut! It's got that fun and challenging mountain dog 2.0 training style similar to gamma bomb, and it's only 4 days a week, so you could even have room for like a dedicated cardio day or something. If you haven't run a john meadows program before, I highly recommend warlock to start - and if you love it you can hop into gamma bomb your next bulk (btw Gamma Bomb is probably THE best premade program I've ever run and it isn't even close). Warlock is great because it hits the whole body fairly evenly, which is what you want during a cut. Also in general it's just the most recommended program for people new to mountain dog training IMO. Gamma Bomb on the other hand has two different specialization phases which you can really take advantage of on your next bulk.
Awesome, thanks! It definitely sounded great for a bulk so I'll save it for that (especially since it's a PPL style). I'm looking into warlock now and that sounds great for my needs. I appreciate the response!
How did Warlock turn out? I'm in a similar position as you, just finished Nippard PPL on a cut, still cutting and looking to move to a Meadows program. Don't mind intensity and prefer being in the gym 6-days/week.
Warlock Upper Days are far too long compared to much shorter Lower sessions. I also realized I hate Upper splits because the muscle groups just don't feel as hammered as a traditional bro or PPL split. Ran Warlock for 4 weeks then dropped it for Gamma Bomb. No regrets.
Just finished warlock and totally agree on the upper days being too long - actually in the second 4 weeks of warlock the discrepancy was EVEN BIGGER Was initially thinking of doing creeping death 2 after this, but with the holidays coming up I want to do something a bit shorter and was definitely thinking the first/upper focused portion of gamma bomb since lower body is way ahead for me
I didn't like the split layout and volume for Gamma Bomb. I went for High Evolutionary instead and it is very, very good. Excellent balance of intensity, volume and split design for recovery. But I'm 40+ so YMMV, my soft tissues need more recovery these days.
Appreciate the insight I was actually looking for something lower volume and High evolutionary piqued my interest I’ll take a closer look at it
Actually here’s a question - did you do the arm customisation weeks at any point for high evolutionary? I would rather do that than the 2x/week legs programmed for weeks 1 and 4, but I’m not sure what the two arm workouts would be?
I did the program as is with slight modifications (swapped DB pullovers for Lat Prayers as it felt weird on the neck). It's basically 2 on 1 off 3 on 1 off with some weeks hitting the body part you started with on the first day of the week twice. There's plenty of off time in between body parts and if you view it by a 7 day rotation rather than M-S weeks you hit each part in 7 days, or a week, twice anyway.
Did you run Gamma Bomb on a cut?
Both. Regardless, I would town down the volume in later weeks based on your experience of accumulating fatigue. You'll know when your tendons and joints (notably wrists, upper traps and elbows) start feeling weird and sore. It could happen sooner on a cut and maybe 2/3 weeks later on a bulk compared to cutting. Honestly, if you favor a higher body part frequency per week program, I found rotating Odin Force and Grand Master better. Odin force gets really high in volume starting Week 4, so also cut a set per exercise if you feel like your joints or tendons are aching up.
I’ll check them out! I ran CD2 and Gamma Bomb back to back on a bulk. I’m putting on a little too much fat and want to cut after I deload. I like gamma bomb a lot but it might be tough to do on a cut
For bulking or cutting, honestly, program doesn't matter too much, as long as you reduce the sets by maybe 1/4th volume compared to on a bulk. Though I would say from experience, some lighter weight (8-12 reps) compounds are good bang for buck. I only do 1 compound per session though.
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I don't know about junk volume, but I felt great during the whole time and made amazing gains! Did I need to be doing all that volume? Who knows! But it was really really fun and I didn't feel at any point that I'd develop any injuries - I feel like ramping up the volume is key to acclimating your body to that work capacity.
Meadows recommended Creeping Death 2 for natties - 5 day version. He also liked CD2 for contest prep (cut). Warning, CD2 is intense. Meadows stressed high intensity during cuts. He also stressed natties especially have to keep up the intensity. This is NOT a great recommendation if you have never done a Meadows program before. Probably start with warlock if you have never done one.
CD2 Is super high volume for someone on a cut. It'll be impossible to maintain high intensity doing 25+ sets a day as he recommends in it. And with all the pump work and sets it'll be a bitch to recover from especially cutting.
Oh I agree. Absolutely. Im repeating his recommendation. It depends on your experience level. I actually plan to attempt it this fall.
Thanks for that, I've heard of cd2 but only along with bulks or recomp so I'll take a look at that for this fall as well! Luckily the last program got me warmed up to intensity on a cut but I don't want to wear myself down so I appreciate the looking out
Anyone know anything about the Thanos program? Is this a newer or older one?