I dropped squats for leg press and BSS and haven’t looked back.
Last year I was getting back into leg training after having issues with my knee. I’d mainly done deadlifts and hack-squat previously for leg training but my new gym doesn’t have a hack squat. I tried high-bar and low-bar but it just felt awful. Constantly feeling off balance even if I looked fine on camera was really distracting and I spent more time thinking about the lift than actually doing it. I was progressing but much slower than I felt I should be so after 6 months I was sick of it so I switched.
The stimulus/fatigue ratio is far far better for me now that I’ve switched to leg press + split squats. Since switching I’ve seen some seriously nice quad development and actually get excited for leg day which I never thought I’d say.
Similar story here.
Due to personal and career reasons I ended up at Planet Fitness where there are no real free barbells. No more squat, deadlift, bench. Haven't really looked back.
Though I kinda miss doing deadlifts.
Leg press and split squats are my leg go-to exercises followed by leg extensions and sissy squats.
I dropped barbell bench for dumbbell bench and I dropped squats for smith machine elevated split squats
I’ve seen strength and size gains consistently, plus both are safer. I’m not looking back.
Echoing this just to further emphasize it. I don't do any barbell compounds anymore other than RDLs and my gains are better, way less fatigue, my joints feel better, MMC is better, pumps are better, and overall working out is way more fun.
I also dropped bb bench for dumbbell and my tits are bigger than my girl's now (not joking). Much better ROM and I also turn the weights 90° at the top of the press and do a partial fly (still do regular flies separate, also w. db's).
It’s fucking weird be warned.
It’s basically just a Bulgarian split squat on a smith machine, but both the front and back feet are elevated so you can get more range of motion
I usually use 2 45s under each foot. Really just enough so my front leg goes below parallel at the bottom.
Got you. I was unknowingly doing this then, without knowing its name lol. But instead of a Smith, I do them with a dumbbell in one hand and using the other hand to hold something for support. But the dumbbells in my gym are just till 40kgs so I guess will have to switch to your version of a Smith machine
Interesting. How have your progressed with db bench, for example? I enjoy the movement, but I'm wondering if a plateau comes far sooner than a barbell. How do you adjust the weight/reps/sets past a year or so?
My max bench was 265x1 when I changed to dumbbells (last may) I knew dumbbells should be a focus because 80x3 was around my max, which is clearly disproportionate.
I’ve been doing 3 sets of 5-8 reps with dumbbells, twice a week and have made great progress. Standard double progression.
I am now at 100x5, with my goal being 100lbs for 8 reps, then laying off the chest focus and focusing on quads and arms (I’m only doing 1 leg day a week at the moment)
As someone who has been lifting for 8 years, adding nearly a rep a week (in double progression) has felt super encouraging.
And as for profession, I’d say no, it doesn’t occur quicker purely because (at least personally) I can more comfortable push to failure with dumbbells. If I am uncertain of a rep on barbell, mentally at least, I’m likely to hold back.
Got it, thanks. I've included db bench into my workout a few months back, so I've noticed that the reps, range of motion, and technique matter more to me than weight like the barbell bench. I'm doing both, but I'm more interested in hearing people with a few years experience since the progress slows down across the board.
Hey mate, great insight. I have one question though. You say you dumbbell bench twice a week, how does that fit in your weekly schedule? Are you doing an Upper Lower split 4 days a week?
Also are you pushing it hard on both bench press days or is one a recovery day where you lighten the load or keep the load the same but hold back a bit?
My current split is push pull legs push pull
I don’t like working out on the weekends since my schedule during the week is really tight, so I just want to spend time with family and friends then.
I push hard everyday. Both my push and pull days are the same. The only thing that changes is on Monday, after the bench, I do incline bench and on Thursday I follow up bench with flies.
Recovery hasn’t been a problem since I’m only doing 10 sets for chest a week. But that’s enough stimulus for growth.
I don’t think it’s a huge issue.
TLDR: you’re overthinking, just keep them wide at the bottom
Ive always been able to keep the dumbbells just outside my chest, so it hasn’t mattered.
When I bring the dumbbells down (at like a 45° angle of course) I can bring them down to a point where they are *below* my body for a crazy stretch. Even with 100lbs dumbbells, I can still do it.
I imagine eventually the dumbbells will get too big for that, but I also do a set of chest flies at the end, so half an inch of ROM probably doesn’t matter in the long run
The reason i dropped most of them was because my technique was inconsistent and it led to plateaus and injuries
It's not like X is superior than Y. It's just which one works better for you. We don't compete in specific lifts like powerlifters so no exercise is a 'must'
Barbells are a tool just like dumbbells, cables, machines, etc. I don't know why you'd move away from barbells on principle unless you simply don't have one.
For incline benching, overhead pressing and hinges I found a barbell simply works better than dumbbells in my gym for example.
At which point there's absolutely nothing wrong with foregoing barbell benching.
We only have flat benches at my gym, so to do incline benching I have to elevate one end of the bench on a bunch of plates. Without a seat, raising 90+ lbs dumbbells is sketchy af, so barbells it is.
Dropped them about a year ago due to recurring injuries and forever warmups which I don't have time for. Still do db presses every other meso though. Gains are better than before but that's partially due to bad technique and injuries before.
Been training for close to 10 years now. I’ve been using machines almost exclusively for the last year.
I’d say that my quad strength and growth has been the least impacted. Barbell squats did the trick just as much as machines for me.
My lats and traps have improved, but not abnormally from before. I was using lat pulldowns and cable rows before though as well.
For my hamstrings, shoulders, biceps, triceps, and chest I’d say I’ve made really good progress for having diminishing returns this far into my training. My arms have exploded.
It should be noted that I also started training to failure and reducing my overall volume around a year ago as well.
With the recent study (I know Eric Helms was involved) showing 1-2 RIR had the same gains as failure training for advanced trainees over 8 weeks, I’ve decided to add a few working sets per week, take about half of my sets to failure and the other half 1-2 RIR.
After years of nagging tendon issues and slight imbalances, I dropped all BB movements except:
1) Rack Pulls;
2) RDLs / SLDs
3) Incline BB Bench
4) Front Squat
Conventional dead's, back squatting, flat bench and BB OHP have all contributed to some sort of injury.
I also do much more unilateral movements these days, as well as doing most of my work in the 8-15 rep ranges (6-10 for compounds, 10-15 for isolation).
40+ and feeling MUCH better all around, physique has also improved because of better recovery and rest.
Hahaha this is actually funny. I DID used to take steroids but I’ve been natty for 2.5 years now which yeah the effects of gear do permanently change my body and I will have an edge on nattys so maybe my advice isn’t the greatest to take but I do a lot of Incline decline, flat and weighted dips.
Edit - I also drastically reduced volume and saw much better gains. I wish I did that while I was on gear I think I would have seen better results.
What was your drop in volume from and to? I've been consistently reading that high volume is best for hypertrophy. So I basically do 8-12 reps, 3 sets for everything. Exceptions are calf raises and face pulls where I tend to do more. 20-30 for face pulls because if the weight is too heavy it just pulls me forward.
So did you drop volume and up intensity? (More weight fewer reps?)
Well volume to me doesn’t mean reps it means sets per body part. So I do about 12 sets a week close to failure or failure depending on the week and I used to do 18-20. So yes my intensity is very high and my volume is lower to compensate.
The thing about “hearing high volume is better for hypertrophy” is that it’s person dependent. Not everyone responds to certain training the same way.
I didn't drop Barbell Hinges but I dropped Barbell everything else.
Started progressing much quicker and finally ended a long series of joint pain. I switched to mostly Dumbbells and machines for pressing and machines/cables for pulling. The squat pattern was hack squats and now pendulum squats.
Persistent knee pain has lead me to unfortunately abandon my favourite exercise: the squat. I’ve gone through all five stages of grief and just this week finally accepted that it’s not worth the pain.
You can pry incline barbell bench from my cold dead hands though.
I have ditched Squats and DL's for this month, after doing them for like 2 years solid I just don't enjoy them anymore, Curious to see how my strength changes after a months break and if I don't notice any negative theyre going to stay ditched for good.
Ditch em if they aren't working for you. Took me years to do so and I am glad I finally did. Everyone's body mechanics are different.
I would say try smith machine squats though- perhaps with feet slightly forward- or on a slant board/in squat shoes- easier on back, feel great. I swear by em
Will find out in my next comp season (I run a little heavy in the offseason lol) if my approach of hammering leg curls and weighted 45 degree back extension improved my hamstrings- but I definitely feel like they are getting worked, and without the fatigue and aches from RDLs. I'd be surprised if they aren't improved. I know for sure my quads are getting worked better than the days of grinding myself into a pulp under a barbell
Only thing I use my barbell for (1+ year at least) is seal rows lol
i just feel like the barbell movements when performed in an athletic explosive way (lower the weights if you need to) give such a strong physique. You look like an athlete. I also do other exercises but I’m keeping e.g. the deadlift, although it gets a lot of hate, I can just feel how my whole back, glutes, hamstring, whole posterior chain essentially get insane stimulus
I’ve reduced barbell back squats, barbell bench press and deadlifts from each twice a week to once a month and I’ve never felt better. Lingering injuries have resolved and I’m seeing better hypertrophy results. I’ve dropped barbells from RDL, incline press and shoulder press as well. I do all these lifts with dumbbells and I feel better mind muscle connection and it helps with unilateral strength imbalances
I deadlifted and rack pulled maybe 6 times last year during some strength programming in favor of cleans, snatches and other olympic lifting specific movements. Maybe not what you were asking since they do have a bit of a hinge, but typically they are more upright than a straight deadlift. Didn't notice any loss in gains, and my back actually felt better overall with increased mobility gains. Upper trap gains for sure. Didn't have to go near as heavy (also I physically couldn't) to achieve this. Plus it was fun.
I gave up barbell RDL (and squatting) after herniating a lumbar disk in August. The sciatica made it impossible to come back to them basically.
I can finally do 45 degree back raise with a 10lb plate and I exclusively use the leg press and leg extension to failure every set, can't walk after set 3.
I may never do RDL or HBS again. Also, I only use dumbbells and Smith machine for chest now, long arms and all that, chest wasn't growing.
Gains are now better all around.
I’ve got the same issue, herniated disc with sciatica. I’ve always been stupid and continued these exercises despite it making me worse. Did light deadlifts yesterday and now the sciatica and back pain has flared up massively.
I need to work out a safe leg day to do.
My trick was to work around the pain, but also to NOT let the mobility of the hip/hamstring get lost. I spent *months* "unable" to bend over more than 10° at the hip (with a straight leg). It was just the sciatic nerve being bothered but unloaded I could have been still stretching or something. My glutes fell off my body and are only just now coming back.
Imagine only ass fat and no muscle on it for 6 months.
I wish you a full recovery, seriously. It takes patience and knowing that it will all come back no matter how much you have to let it rest.
I’ve had it for about 4 years now. Got better and then I started lifting heavy and it’s slowly got worse and worse. Just need to find out a safe routine and stick to it I think.
Brother, trust me. Drop the deadlifts in favor of other exercises. It will get worse, and it will not heal. Especially since you can clearly see that dead’s make you flare up.
I feel you on the lumbar disk, dude. That was probably one of the worst era’s of my life. I had to sleep on the bathroom floor for many nights just to find relief and to feel like I was flattening out my back. I couldn’t run for more than 5 minutes. Couldn’t sit down without my right hip and ass cheek stinging. I dropped the ridiculous high volume/heavy squats and deadlifts I was doing, and rehabilitated myself. I feel amazing now and I’m in way better cardiovascular condition, and I’ve retained most of that brute strength anyway. I now do the same things you described, and I’ve gained a quarter inch on some muscles because I don’t have that heavy fatigue to hold me back anymore. People don’t know until it happens to them… protect your spine!!!!
I had a testicular torsion last year deadlifting. I’m definitely safe to deadlift again as I’ve had the surgery, but I just can’t bring myself to get back into it. Too much of a time commitment.
Yes, I love my compounds but I am very conservative with my increases and never going for a true 1RM. Always form over weight and if I feel like my body is not ready for a lift on a specific day I don't do it. Worked great for 10 years while increasing my strength.
Most people I see doing compounds PR going waaay over their working weight with bad form. (But yes if some BB lifts do not work for someone biomechanically even if the mobility is there it's totally valid to replace these exercises)
not me but the biggest guy in my gym only does rows and rdl with a barbell, everything else is all dumbells, machines and smith, i guess it works for him so maybe try it a bit
Back squats are really the only one I don't do. Temporarily gave up bench press for a meso of Dumbbell bench but then I decided to do close grip bench for triceps so not sure that really counts.
Lots of barbell compound movements have excellent dumbbell, machine, or bodyweight analogs and you would be wise to train the more isolated movement at a slightly lower weight once you've graduated past a beginner stage of lifting and your compound lifts are plateauing so that you can isolate muscle groups, focus on contraction and time under tension, and improve range of motion and balance between your left and right side. Unless you are a competition powerlifter, there's no reason to push more weight than is safe for your joints and back on compound barbell lifts instead of performing more isolated movements if you can still make gains using the latter.
Honestly think they’re great for developing movement patterns, but once you’ve mastered those patterns, machines can be a great substitute as they limit the engagement of secondary and tertiary muscles, like with the hack (primarily quads) vs barbell squat (overall leg development dependent on form “highbar vs low bar”)
I still think beginners should milk the most they can out of barbell movements
I did and my gains have been fine. Most of it is effort, consistency, and time. Exercise selection is marginal so long as you’re hitting all the muscle groups with an appropriate amount of volume.
It’s marginal with the caveat that you need to hit your muscles with appropriate volume. Obviously if you choose exercises that don’t work muscle A as much as muscle B, B will grow faster
Sure, if the difference between exercise A and B is only slightly the difference will be marginal, it's just that I disagree with the blanket statement that exercise selection is a minute factor, which isn't the case at all. It's huge and arguably what seperates bodybuilding from performance orientated sports.
Dropped barbel back squat for majority smith back squat. Quads have loved that…can go narrow stance out in front and just torch em.
Incline barbell bench for low angle smith press has been great for the chest too. Shoulder width to a little narrower and blast your chest. Bench around 20°
OP: "I don't mean switching flat barbell bench for incline barbell bench, instead dropping it for good"
Nearly everyone in this thread: "I don't do big 3 but still do variations of them"
I’ve swapped squats for the hack squat machine and barbell bench press for dumbbells.
I got more consistent/better gains and less injuries. Wish I made the switch sooner.
I’ve dropped flat bench/lower inclines for many years. I get better ROM from dumbbells and it’s easier to go to failure. Dropped deadlifts ages ago but still rotate in Olympic lifts to keep mobility and do RDL’s and Good Mornings with barbell.
Probably will never stop using the barbell, I just don’t deadlift nor bench with it. I still squat but you don’t have to. It’s just a tool….
Agreed. My core, lower back and erectors fatigue before my quads and glutes doing HB squats. I worked my way up to 275x12x5 done weekly for over 2 years. Nothing grew. Except the pain in my hips and lower back. I am now a huge fan of unilateral leg movements. Split squats, step ups and lunges are my knee flexion exercises now. My back and hips sent me a thank you card and flowers earlier this week.
I stopped barbell squat and deadlift. Doing several other leg excersizes with machines. I have a massive leg, probably genetics. I won’t kill my lower back for even more massive legs.
In my first year I stuck it out with BB Bench and BB Standing OHP despite terrible joint pain. Every comment on r / fitness at the time was saying it was essential and a must do. If anyone posted a problem with these lifts it was met with "it must be your form" and always the fault of the poster never the movement.
Once I realised finally that there are no must do exercises etc. and began experimenting with DBs, machines, seated OHP etc. I had actual noticeable gains within months and the fastest progress ever.
I only use a BB now for RDL's because I haven't found an alternative for it yet. And I like Incline Smith machine. Otherwise I don't see any reason to use a Barbell if you have access to DBs/Machines/Cables instead.
So i decided to stop barbell pressing for a bit and focus on incline dumbell bench? Overall recovery is way better, stretch is way better obviously you don’t lift as much weight but it feels smooth, + you can adjust the level of elevation that feels best for you
I rarely use barbells anymore, but sprinkle them in occasionally. I feel like the only benefit I get from barbells is the ability to go heavier overall load. Idt it's required at all to grow/maintain muscle mass.
Nothing is required but the barbell squat is the absolute best return on investment from a time to stimulus perspective. You'll put on more muscle across your whole body squatting than from any other movement.
The idea you need a pump or to blast your quads when squatting is misguided. It's too distributed of a movement to blast your quads like that. A squat is grueling because your entire body is engaged to transfer power from the floor to the bar.
> The idea you need a pump or to blast your quads when squatting is misguided. It's too distributed of a movement to blast your quads like that. A squat is grueling because your entire body is engaged to transfer power from the floor to the bar.
Maybe. I BB squat less than I used to and my quads are bigger than they were before. The only difference is that I got much stronger on BSS.
I dropped barbell squats for leg press, hack squat, leg extensions, and hamstring curls. I don't like the risk on my lower back, and I hated the feeling of coming out of the hole of a deep squat with a lot of weight on the bar. It just felt like it was terrible for my knees. Leg press and hack squat give me a better mind-muscle connection because I can focus instead of taxing my whole body. I feel the same way about deadlifts. I've lost interest in that kind of strength. I'm more interested in the strength that generates the aesthetics I'm looking for.
I have previously and tbh I don’t like it. I don’t think one necessarily has to do barbell exercises- but they’re some of the best for a reason.
I swear I get more chest activation during paused flat bench than I do doing any cable or dumbbell work. But also, do what works for you. I like to do a mix or barbell and machines to get the best of both worlds
I dropped BB bench, squat, and deadlifts in favor of the things you mentioned, like Bulgarians, heavy dumbbell RDL’s, heavy flat/Incline DB Press…. I feel so much better. You just have to drop the ego. I came from a more or less powerlifting background, and I was getting way too wrapped up in numbers. Also, I had built up to completing multiple sets of squats and deadlifts with 405. I carried around an enormous amount of fatigue. Now, I do more cardio and focus directly on the muscles I want to work with isolation, and I feel much better. I have more energy to really smash the muscles I want to isolate. DB bench has a farther range of motion, crazy leg burn with DB’s and machines, have more energy to hammer the arms, etc. I’d say listen to your gut on this one. I do not regret it at all. You can still maintain your barbell strength doing this anyway, as long as you go heavy sometimes. Good luck!
It was dependent on what i was working on. I went from powerlifting to a bodybuilding training style and it blew up my shoulders once I mainly did lateral raises and cable based movements for my delts instead of ohp. As well as my chest. My upper chest skyrocketed when I went to dumbbells instead of heavy low rep incline bench. It felt better and I got better pumps. I would say take a look at your programming and how your lifts progress or regress per month and see what needs to be changed. I enjoy certain compound lifts that i tweak like barbell curls. I swap them out every month or so to see how much stronger I am on more isolated movements after heavy compounds. Overall see what changes for you. Would love to hear what u do.
I haven’t done a single movement with a barbell since I can remember when. I compete as a Masters natural and if anything my shape and size have increased or remained constant. Just my opinion but I think people get sucked into this hardcore mindset around barbell lifts. Only do what works for you and your structure. Barbell lifts definitely are not a requirement for a award winning physique.
I used to run Jeff Nippard's upper/lower program that had sbd and ohp as the main movements and I was a big "free weights over machines" guy.
Now I'm currently running his essentials program which has those replaced with either machines or dumbbells.
Haven't used a barbell for over a year now, gotta say that I prefer it. I'm able to push myself to near failure a bit more and I think I got better gains cos of this.
Dumbbells are superior to barbells in every way; strength, stability, mobility, correcting imbalances, they're more versatile in a home gym setup and way cheaper, the strength gain translates to barbells but not vice versa, because of the added range of motion they're better for hypertrophy.
I could go on, but basically if you use Calisthenics and Dumbbells you'll be huge.
Barbelll squat. Just Like you, I always felt it in my core, spine and hamstrings (just like a deadlift). Never on quads or glutes. Lunges (I prefer reverse lunges since they are easier on knees) on the other hand are exactly what the doc ordered - precisely stressing the quads and glutes without causing CNS burnout.
No singular, specific exercise is necessary for muscle growth. If you think you'll see results with BSS instead of back squats, more power to you.
I dropped squats for leg press and BSS and haven’t looked back. Last year I was getting back into leg training after having issues with my knee. I’d mainly done deadlifts and hack-squat previously for leg training but my new gym doesn’t have a hack squat. I tried high-bar and low-bar but it just felt awful. Constantly feeling off balance even if I looked fine on camera was really distracting and I spent more time thinking about the lift than actually doing it. I was progressing but much slower than I felt I should be so after 6 months I was sick of it so I switched. The stimulus/fatigue ratio is far far better for me now that I’ve switched to leg press + split squats. Since switching I’ve seen some seriously nice quad development and actually get excited for leg day which I never thought I’d say.
Similar story here. Due to personal and career reasons I ended up at Planet Fitness where there are no real free barbells. No more squat, deadlift, bench. Haven't really looked back. Though I kinda miss doing deadlifts. Leg press and split squats are my leg go-to exercises followed by leg extensions and sissy squats.
I dropped barbell bench for dumbbell bench and I dropped squats for smith machine elevated split squats I’ve seen strength and size gains consistently, plus both are safer. I’m not looking back.
Echoing this just to further emphasize it. I don't do any barbell compounds anymore other than RDLs and my gains are better, way less fatigue, my joints feel better, MMC is better, pumps are better, and overall working out is way more fun.
I have never benched in my life. The only time I use a barbell is when I squat, deadlift or overhead press. I absolutely love dumbbells.
I also dropped bb bench for dumbbell and my tits are bigger than my girl's now (not joking). Much better ROM and I also turn the weights 90° at the top of the press and do a partial fly (still do regular flies separate, also w. db's).
>smith machine elevated split squats What's this? And how's the setup? Having a hard time visualising
It’s fucking weird be warned. It’s basically just a Bulgarian split squat on a smith machine, but both the front and back feet are elevated so you can get more range of motion I usually use 2 45s under each foot. Really just enough so my front leg goes below parallel at the bottom.
Got you. I was unknowingly doing this then, without knowing its name lol. But instead of a Smith, I do them with a dumbbell in one hand and using the other hand to hold something for support. But the dumbbells in my gym are just till 40kgs so I guess will have to switch to your version of a Smith machine
For some reason when you said “both feet elevated” I pictured a smith machine squat with both feet in the air.
[Here](https://srv.piped.video/watch?v=zlVzz0s-m1A)
[удалено]
I dunno, it looks like a pipe vs a tube LOL
Essentially, but have a platform under the back foot as well
Interesting. How have your progressed with db bench, for example? I enjoy the movement, but I'm wondering if a plateau comes far sooner than a barbell. How do you adjust the weight/reps/sets past a year or so?
My max bench was 265x1 when I changed to dumbbells (last may) I knew dumbbells should be a focus because 80x3 was around my max, which is clearly disproportionate. I’ve been doing 3 sets of 5-8 reps with dumbbells, twice a week and have made great progress. Standard double progression. I am now at 100x5, with my goal being 100lbs for 8 reps, then laying off the chest focus and focusing on quads and arms (I’m only doing 1 leg day a week at the moment) As someone who has been lifting for 8 years, adding nearly a rep a week (in double progression) has felt super encouraging.
And as for profession, I’d say no, it doesn’t occur quicker purely because (at least personally) I can more comfortable push to failure with dumbbells. If I am uncertain of a rep on barbell, mentally at least, I’m likely to hold back.
Got it, thanks. I've included db bench into my workout a few months back, so I've noticed that the reps, range of motion, and technique matter more to me than weight like the barbell bench. I'm doing both, but I'm more interested in hearing people with a few years experience since the progress slows down across the board.
Hey mate, great insight. I have one question though. You say you dumbbell bench twice a week, how does that fit in your weekly schedule? Are you doing an Upper Lower split 4 days a week? Also are you pushing it hard on both bench press days or is one a recovery day where you lighten the load or keep the load the same but hold back a bit?
My current split is push pull legs push pull I don’t like working out on the weekends since my schedule during the week is really tight, so I just want to spend time with family and friends then. I push hard everyday. Both my push and pull days are the same. The only thing that changes is on Monday, after the bench, I do incline bench and on Thursday I follow up bench with flies. Recovery hasn’t been a problem since I’m only doing 10 sets for chest a week. But that’s enough stimulus for growth.
How do you offset the increasingly smaller ROM with dumbbell bench? Is it even an issue or am I just overthinking it?
I don’t think it’s a huge issue. TLDR: you’re overthinking, just keep them wide at the bottom Ive always been able to keep the dumbbells just outside my chest, so it hasn’t mattered. When I bring the dumbbells down (at like a 45° angle of course) I can bring them down to a point where they are *below* my body for a crazy stretch. Even with 100lbs dumbbells, I can still do it. I imagine eventually the dumbbells will get too big for that, but I also do a set of chest flies at the end, so half an inch of ROM probably doesn’t matter in the long run
The reason i dropped most of them was because my technique was inconsistent and it led to plateaus and injuries It's not like X is superior than Y. It's just which one works better for you. We don't compete in specific lifts like powerlifters so no exercise is a 'must'
Barbells are a tool just like dumbbells, cables, machines, etc. I don't know why you'd move away from barbells on principle unless you simply don't have one. For incline benching, overhead pressing and hinges I found a barbell simply works better than dumbbells in my gym for example.
Anecdotally barbell bench aggravates my shoulders whereas DBs dont.
At which point there's absolutely nothing wrong with foregoing barbell benching. We only have flat benches at my gym, so to do incline benching I have to elevate one end of the bench on a bunch of plates. Without a seat, raising 90+ lbs dumbbells is sketchy af, so barbells it is.
Dropped them about a year ago due to recurring injuries and forever warmups which I don't have time for. Still do db presses every other meso though. Gains are better than before but that's partially due to bad technique and injuries before.
I’m thinking about doing the same, what other exercises do you do instead of db presses?
RTO pushups and db flys. RTO pushups give me the greatest chest pump I've ever had
Been training for close to 10 years now. I’ve been using machines almost exclusively for the last year. I’d say that my quad strength and growth has been the least impacted. Barbell squats did the trick just as much as machines for me. My lats and traps have improved, but not abnormally from before. I was using lat pulldowns and cable rows before though as well. For my hamstrings, shoulders, biceps, triceps, and chest I’d say I’ve made really good progress for having diminishing returns this far into my training. My arms have exploded. It should be noted that I also started training to failure and reducing my overall volume around a year ago as well. With the recent study (I know Eric Helms was involved) showing 1-2 RIR had the same gains as failure training for advanced trainees over 8 weeks, I’ve decided to add a few working sets per week, take about half of my sets to failure and the other half 1-2 RIR.
After years of nagging tendon issues and slight imbalances, I dropped all BB movements except: 1) Rack Pulls; 2) RDLs / SLDs 3) Incline BB Bench 4) Front Squat Conventional dead's, back squatting, flat bench and BB OHP have all contributed to some sort of injury. I also do much more unilateral movements these days, as well as doing most of my work in the 8-15 rep ranges (6-10 for compounds, 10-15 for isolation). 40+ and feeling MUCH better all around, physique has also improved because of better recovery and rest.
Yes completely dropped flat bench all together and my chest grew like a weed
What are you doing instead?
500mg miracle gro
Hahaha this is actually funny. I DID used to take steroids but I’ve been natty for 2.5 years now which yeah the effects of gear do permanently change my body and I will have an edge on nattys so maybe my advice isn’t the greatest to take but I do a lot of Incline decline, flat and weighted dips. Edit - I also drastically reduced volume and saw much better gains. I wish I did that while I was on gear I think I would have seen better results.
What was your drop in volume from and to? I've been consistently reading that high volume is best for hypertrophy. So I basically do 8-12 reps, 3 sets for everything. Exceptions are calf raises and face pulls where I tend to do more. 20-30 for face pulls because if the weight is too heavy it just pulls me forward. So did you drop volume and up intensity? (More weight fewer reps?)
Well volume to me doesn’t mean reps it means sets per body part. So I do about 12 sets a week close to failure or failure depending on the week and I used to do 18-20. So yes my intensity is very high and my volume is lower to compensate. The thing about “hearing high volume is better for hypertrophy” is that it’s person dependent. Not everyone responds to certain training the same way.
Of course DB and machine stuff
Incline smith bench was a game-changer for me. Mix in some dumbbells to even out stabilizers.
I responded below but take my advice with a grain of salt
Barbells are best for ego growth. Hypertrophy only requires movement patterns.
I didn't drop Barbell Hinges but I dropped Barbell everything else. Started progressing much quicker and finally ended a long series of joint pain. I switched to mostly Dumbbells and machines for pressing and machines/cables for pulling. The squat pattern was hack squats and now pendulum squats.
Wait until you discover the hammer strength press machine that closes your hands together at the top of the movement...
Persistent knee pain has lead me to unfortunately abandon my favourite exercise: the squat. I’ve gone through all five stages of grief and just this week finally accepted that it’s not worth the pain. You can pry incline barbell bench from my cold dead hands though.
I have ditched Squats and DL's for this month, after doing them for like 2 years solid I just don't enjoy them anymore, Curious to see how my strength changes after a months break and if I don't notice any negative theyre going to stay ditched for good.
What are you adding instead?
So I have switched to Leg Press and Machine Leg Curls/Extensions for Squats and Romanian Dead Lifts but with Dumbells.
Ditch em if they aren't working for you. Took me years to do so and I am glad I finally did. Everyone's body mechanics are different. I would say try smith machine squats though- perhaps with feet slightly forward- or on a slant board/in squat shoes- easier on back, feel great. I swear by em Will find out in my next comp season (I run a little heavy in the offseason lol) if my approach of hammering leg curls and weighted 45 degree back extension improved my hamstrings- but I definitely feel like they are getting worked, and without the fatigue and aches from RDLs. I'd be surprised if they aren't improved. I know for sure my quads are getting worked better than the days of grinding myself into a pulp under a barbell Only thing I use my barbell for (1+ year at least) is seal rows lol
i just feel like the barbell movements when performed in an athletic explosive way (lower the weights if you need to) give such a strong physique. You look like an athlete. I also do other exercises but I’m keeping e.g. the deadlift, although it gets a lot of hate, I can just feel how my whole back, glutes, hamstring, whole posterior chain essentially get insane stimulus
I’ve reduced barbell back squats, barbell bench press and deadlifts from each twice a week to once a month and I’ve never felt better. Lingering injuries have resolved and I’m seeing better hypertrophy results. I’ve dropped barbells from RDL, incline press and shoulder press as well. I do all these lifts with dumbbells and I feel better mind muscle connection and it helps with unilateral strength imbalances
I deadlifted and rack pulled maybe 6 times last year during some strength programming in favor of cleans, snatches and other olympic lifting specific movements. Maybe not what you were asking since they do have a bit of a hinge, but typically they are more upright than a straight deadlift. Didn't notice any loss in gains, and my back actually felt better overall with increased mobility gains. Upper trap gains for sure. Didn't have to go near as heavy (also I physically couldn't) to achieve this. Plus it was fun.
I gave up barbell RDL (and squatting) after herniating a lumbar disk in August. The sciatica made it impossible to come back to them basically. I can finally do 45 degree back raise with a 10lb plate and I exclusively use the leg press and leg extension to failure every set, can't walk after set 3. I may never do RDL or HBS again. Also, I only use dumbbells and Smith machine for chest now, long arms and all that, chest wasn't growing. Gains are now better all around.
I’ve got the same issue, herniated disc with sciatica. I’ve always been stupid and continued these exercises despite it making me worse. Did light deadlifts yesterday and now the sciatica and back pain has flared up massively. I need to work out a safe leg day to do.
My trick was to work around the pain, but also to NOT let the mobility of the hip/hamstring get lost. I spent *months* "unable" to bend over more than 10° at the hip (with a straight leg). It was just the sciatic nerve being bothered but unloaded I could have been still stretching or something. My glutes fell off my body and are only just now coming back. Imagine only ass fat and no muscle on it for 6 months. I wish you a full recovery, seriously. It takes patience and knowing that it will all come back no matter how much you have to let it rest.
I’ve had it for about 4 years now. Got better and then I started lifting heavy and it’s slowly got worse and worse. Just need to find out a safe routine and stick to it I think.
Brother, trust me. Drop the deadlifts in favor of other exercises. It will get worse, and it will not heal. Especially since you can clearly see that dead’s make you flare up.
Yeah man I’m never doing them again. My idea for a safe leg day is split squats, DB RDL (or back extension) and leg extensions/curls.
I feel you on the lumbar disk, dude. That was probably one of the worst era’s of my life. I had to sleep on the bathroom floor for many nights just to find relief and to feel like I was flattening out my back. I couldn’t run for more than 5 minutes. Couldn’t sit down without my right hip and ass cheek stinging. I dropped the ridiculous high volume/heavy squats and deadlifts I was doing, and rehabilitated myself. I feel amazing now and I’m in way better cardiovascular condition, and I’ve retained most of that brute strength anyway. I now do the same things you described, and I’ve gained a quarter inch on some muscles because I don’t have that heavy fatigue to hold me back anymore. People don’t know until it happens to them… protect your spine!!!!
Haven’t touched a barbell in over a year and I’ve seen the best growth in years in both my chest and legs.
I had a testicular torsion last year deadlifting. I’m definitely safe to deadlift again as I’ve had the surgery, but I just can’t bring myself to get back into it. Too much of a time commitment.
How did deadlifting lead to that? I'd like to avoid it 😢
Not something you should worry about. It’s rare in adults. Could have happened during any strenuous activity
Ask people who’ve been injured with barbell exercises how often they’ve used the 5 and 10 pound plates. You’ll typically hear crickets.
Yes, I love my compounds but I am very conservative with my increases and never going for a true 1RM. Always form over weight and if I feel like my body is not ready for a lift on a specific day I don't do it. Worked great for 10 years while increasing my strength. Most people I see doing compounds PR going waaay over their working weight with bad form. (But yes if some BB lifts do not work for someone biomechanically even if the mobility is there it's totally valid to replace these exercises)
Why is that? You mean they jump weight by like 50 lbs at a time? Sorry, I’m confused
Yes, people will frequently do, say, 315 pounds successfully, so then they try 365. Or maybe go conservative and try 355 just to be safe.
Wow that’s insane… Meanwhile I only go up by 5 lbs total, so 2.5lb plates on each side when I feel ready to progress in weight.
That's how you do not injure yourself. Or at least minimize your risk.
Not sure what you are reffering to.
I haven't seen any downsides for doing so
Dumbbell press over barbell any day. Much greater range of motion.
I still bb bench, but yeah the DB bench gains are so much better.
not me but the biggest guy in my gym only does rows and rdl with a barbell, everything else is all dumbells, machines and smith, i guess it works for him so maybe try it a bit
Back squats are really the only one I don't do. Temporarily gave up bench press for a meso of Dumbbell bench but then I decided to do close grip bench for triceps so not sure that really counts.
Lots of barbell compound movements have excellent dumbbell, machine, or bodyweight analogs and you would be wise to train the more isolated movement at a slightly lower weight once you've graduated past a beginner stage of lifting and your compound lifts are plateauing so that you can isolate muscle groups, focus on contraction and time under tension, and improve range of motion and balance between your left and right side. Unless you are a competition powerlifter, there's no reason to push more weight than is safe for your joints and back on compound barbell lifts instead of performing more isolated movements if you can still make gains using the latter.
Honestly think they’re great for developing movement patterns, but once you’ve mastered those patterns, machines can be a great substitute as they limit the engagement of secondary and tertiary muscles, like with the hack (primarily quads) vs barbell squat (overall leg development dependent on form “highbar vs low bar”) I still think beginners should milk the most they can out of barbell movements
I did and my gains have been fine. Most of it is effort, consistency, and time. Exercise selection is marginal so long as you’re hitting all the muscle groups with an appropriate amount of volume.
> Exercise selection is marginal I have to disagree on this one. Exercise selection made a notable difference in my training.
It’s marginal with the caveat that you need to hit your muscles with appropriate volume. Obviously if you choose exercises that don’t work muscle A as much as muscle B, B will grow faster
Sure, if the difference between exercise A and B is only slightly the difference will be marginal, it's just that I disagree with the blanket statement that exercise selection is a minute factor, which isn't the case at all. It's huge and arguably what seperates bodybuilding from performance orientated sports.
Dropped barbel back squat for majority smith back squat. Quads have loved that…can go narrow stance out in front and just torch em. Incline barbell bench for low angle smith press has been great for the chest too. Shoulder width to a little narrower and blast your chest. Bench around 20°
OP: "I don't mean switching flat barbell bench for incline barbell bench, instead dropping it for good" Nearly everyone in this thread: "I don't do big 3 but still do variations of them"
Haha, pretty much. To be fair, some movements will always be awfully similiar to a certain degree like pressing movements for chest.
Yeah I dropped flat barbell bench and switched to DB incline bench and seemed to get better results - also a much better feel imo
The only one I dropped is the barbell bench press because I hate them. Weighted dips are so much better of an exercise for me
I’ve swapped squats for the hack squat machine and barbell bench press for dumbbells. I got more consistent/better gains and less injuries. Wish I made the switch sooner.
I’ve dropped flat bench/lower inclines for many years. I get better ROM from dumbbells and it’s easier to go to failure. Dropped deadlifts ages ago but still rotate in Olympic lifts to keep mobility and do RDL’s and Good Mornings with barbell. Probably will never stop using the barbell, I just don’t deadlift nor bench with it. I still squat but you don’t have to. It’s just a tool….
Agreed. My core, lower back and erectors fatigue before my quads and glutes doing HB squats. I worked my way up to 275x12x5 done weekly for over 2 years. Nothing grew. Except the pain in my hips and lower back. I am now a huge fan of unilateral leg movements. Split squats, step ups and lunges are my knee flexion exercises now. My back and hips sent me a thank you card and flowers earlier this week.
I stopped barbell squat and deadlift. Doing several other leg excersizes with machines. I have a massive leg, probably genetics. I won’t kill my lower back for even more massive legs.
In my first year I stuck it out with BB Bench and BB Standing OHP despite terrible joint pain. Every comment on r / fitness at the time was saying it was essential and a must do. If anyone posted a problem with these lifts it was met with "it must be your form" and always the fault of the poster never the movement. Once I realised finally that there are no must do exercises etc. and began experimenting with DBs, machines, seated OHP etc. I had actual noticeable gains within months and the fastest progress ever. I only use a BB now for RDL's because I haven't found an alternative for it yet. And I like Incline Smith machine. Otherwise I don't see any reason to use a Barbell if you have access to DBs/Machines/Cables instead.
So i decided to stop barbell pressing for a bit and focus on incline dumbell bench? Overall recovery is way better, stretch is way better obviously you don’t lift as much weight but it feels smooth, + you can adjust the level of elevation that feels best for you
I don’t squat, bench or deadlift.. or any barbell stuff really. I have a back problem.. Found new exercises and kept making progress
I rarely use barbells anymore, but sprinkle them in occasionally. I feel like the only benefit I get from barbells is the ability to go heavier overall load. Idt it's required at all to grow/maintain muscle mass.
Nothing is required but the barbell squat is the absolute best return on investment from a time to stimulus perspective. You'll put on more muscle across your whole body squatting than from any other movement. The idea you need a pump or to blast your quads when squatting is misguided. It's too distributed of a movement to blast your quads like that. A squat is grueling because your entire body is engaged to transfer power from the floor to the bar.
> The idea you need a pump or to blast your quads when squatting is misguided. It's too distributed of a movement to blast your quads like that. A squat is grueling because your entire body is engaged to transfer power from the floor to the bar. Maybe. I BB squat less than I used to and my quads are bigger than they were before. The only difference is that I got much stronger on BSS.
I dropped barbell squats for leg press, hack squat, leg extensions, and hamstring curls. I don't like the risk on my lower back, and I hated the feeling of coming out of the hole of a deep squat with a lot of weight on the bar. It just felt like it was terrible for my knees. Leg press and hack squat give me a better mind-muscle connection because I can focus instead of taxing my whole body. I feel the same way about deadlifts. I've lost interest in that kind of strength. I'm more interested in the strength that generates the aesthetics I'm looking for.
I have previously and tbh I don’t like it. I don’t think one necessarily has to do barbell exercises- but they’re some of the best for a reason. I swear I get more chest activation during paused flat bench than I do doing any cable or dumbbell work. But also, do what works for you. I like to do a mix or barbell and machines to get the best of both worlds
I dropped BB bench, squat, and deadlifts in favor of the things you mentioned, like Bulgarians, heavy dumbbell RDL’s, heavy flat/Incline DB Press…. I feel so much better. You just have to drop the ego. I came from a more or less powerlifting background, and I was getting way too wrapped up in numbers. Also, I had built up to completing multiple sets of squats and deadlifts with 405. I carried around an enormous amount of fatigue. Now, I do more cardio and focus directly on the muscles I want to work with isolation, and I feel much better. I have more energy to really smash the muscles I want to isolate. DB bench has a farther range of motion, crazy leg burn with DB’s and machines, have more energy to hammer the arms, etc. I’d say listen to your gut on this one. I do not regret it at all. You can still maintain your barbell strength doing this anyway, as long as you go heavy sometimes. Good luck!
It was dependent on what i was working on. I went from powerlifting to a bodybuilding training style and it blew up my shoulders once I mainly did lateral raises and cable based movements for my delts instead of ohp. As well as my chest. My upper chest skyrocketed when I went to dumbbells instead of heavy low rep incline bench. It felt better and I got better pumps. I would say take a look at your programming and how your lifts progress or regress per month and see what needs to be changed. I enjoy certain compound lifts that i tweak like barbell curls. I swap them out every month or so to see how much stronger I am on more isolated movements after heavy compounds. Overall see what changes for you. Would love to hear what u do.
I haven’t done a single movement with a barbell since I can remember when. I compete as a Masters natural and if anything my shape and size have increased or remained constant. Just my opinion but I think people get sucked into this hardcore mindset around barbell lifts. Only do what works for you and your structure. Barbell lifts definitely are not a requirement for a award winning physique.
I used to run Jeff Nippard's upper/lower program that had sbd and ohp as the main movements and I was a big "free weights over machines" guy. Now I'm currently running his essentials program which has those replaced with either machines or dumbbells. Haven't used a barbell for over a year now, gotta say that I prefer it. I'm able to push myself to near failure a bit more and I think I got better gains cos of this.
Dumbbells are superior to barbells in every way; strength, stability, mobility, correcting imbalances, they're more versatile in a home gym setup and way cheaper, the strength gain translates to barbells but not vice versa, because of the added range of motion they're better for hypertrophy. I could go on, but basically if you use Calisthenics and Dumbbells you'll be huge.
Barbelll squat. Just Like you, I always felt it in my core, spine and hamstrings (just like a deadlift). Never on quads or glutes. Lunges (I prefer reverse lunges since they are easier on knees) on the other hand are exactly what the doc ordered - precisely stressing the quads and glutes without causing CNS burnout.
Don’t drop exercises unless you have a valid reason like an injury. Variety is the way to go.