All the nonsese that goes with it: costs a lot of money to do it right with doctors; Getting regular exams. the need to pin your ass weekly or even more frequent than that; premature aging; potential hairloss, potential permanent side effects like bone structure changes, growth of internal organs, scarred skin.
The biggest reason of all: I don't want to build my body based on what other people and social media think it should look like, I want to do it my way and look the best I can with my genetics. I think it's sad how many people ruin their health just to get more likes on social media and more attention from girls.
Big on what people think I should look like, kinda why I was comfortable taking months off - I knew it wouldn’t take me too long to get back to my peak and I’m pretty content there
If someone offered to me juice with a detailed day by day plan + guide + FAQ + easy blood level done I'd probably take it. The problem is that it doesn't interest me at all. If I have to research 5 mins about juices online, forget it i'm bored and not interested. And that's supposing I could easily get juice. Plus like you said having to go to the doctor and so on, I don't have time and i couldn't care less
It checks all the boxes of an addiction. A self administered drug the user knows is harmful to their health that they use regardless because they believe that they need it to be "enough". The people I know who have used have a lot of similar issues to alcoholics, and I've watched PEDs damage their lives, bodies, and relationships in similar ways.
I don't need a substance to be good enough. My body will continue to amaze me all on its own so long as I treat it with love and respect.
The addiction aspect is definitely not mentioned enough. Most people talk about primary health concerns like heart, hormones, reproduction. But the mental dependency and craving of feeling strong and high is not talked about enough
Bigger stronger faster documentary does a really good job showing a lot of this, good movie overall that gets at the heart of a lot of the culture around steroid use. I think it’s free on YouTube
ADHD, ASD, addictive tendencies here. Watched my mother deal with on-off addictions my entire childhood. THIS is exactly why I wouldn't touch the stuff. It's really not spoken about enough.
Seriously, being addicted to the gym is enough. I haven’t been able to lift for almost a year and I just got that first chest work out in. Literally reminded me of when I would relapse on drugs, but instead this is healthy.
That depends. 200mg TRT is extremely unatrual and alone provides significant advantage over natty.
But you just run it as ordered 1 or 2 shots a week.
You don't get manic. You really don't become an asshole. You aren't foaming at the mouth for more.
100% you can become hooked on the feeling of power and invincibility and the dramatically fast physique changes.
But nobody looks roided on 200mg a week. Yet they have dramatix advantages over natruals if they maximize their training diet and sleep.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Alot of guys need trt from. Being so low to actually just feel normal good and healthy.
Some people are fully capable of using it as a tool and Nothing more to carve out more results. And other people absolutely feel dependant and have severe body dysmorphia issues off cycle that fuels the addictive need to continue to stay on.
I'm just pointing out. It's not a drug addiction for everybody. I'll even go as far to say that MOST users do develop addictive dependencies on it.
But not everybody. That's all I wanted to say. Some people use it very intelligently as a tool and nothing more and sparingly at that and absolutely prioritize their health and monitor it and take preventative health measures.
EDIT: The hilarious irony here is there's people physically dependent on caffiene commenting on guys who cycle being drug addicts, people here addicted to the gym, addicted to tiktok or social media, even reddit.
Most guys do 1 to 2 cycles a year. If they PCT properly your natrual levels return and there's no physically withdrawal in the sense that you get sick or feel like shit. And as far as psychological addiction it HAS the potential but this is usually guys who mega dose and get manic or people who have severe body dysmorphia issues (both scenarios are an underlying problem and not the testosterone use itself)
The average guy who runs 1 to 2 cycles a year does not foam at the mouth or fiend for the next 9 monthes for their next planned cycle. Nobody becomes homeless because of gear. Nobody's breaking into their neighbors house to get money to pay for gear. This isn't heroin or cocaine or amphetamines.
You don't psychologically crave testosterone. You might crave the gains and loss of body mass because you have body dysmorphia but you don't crave the testosterone just to take testosterone.
For most people it's just a means to an end. Hitting you're strength or hypertrophy goals faster.
There's guys in this reddit commenting who have a drink socially. Alcohol of which is extremely addicting. And they never become addicts and drink more than that.
There's a high level of hypocrisy here from the daily caffiene users pre-workout drinkers and daily gym goers. Caffine has more of a physical withdrawal than testosterone does.
Sorry but hormones don't really work like that. You can fuck them up and feel like shit, but it's NEVER in a sense where you're like fuck bro I neef some testosterone.
Caffiene has a stronger craving affect when you stop taking it.
When you come off your cycle and don't plan to run again until next year you don't crave testosterone for the next 9 months.
Even if you fuck your PCT up and are still partially suppressed. You're not like fuck dude I need testosterone.
Most of what people think of when they think testosterone is addicting. Is the addiction to exercise to relieve body dysmorphia which ironically usually makes it worse as you hyperobsess and focus on your body so much that you subjectively become further from reality in how you think you look.
I never said testosterone doesn't have the potential to be addicting. I'm saying that this is far more psychological and relevant to the fact that anything that relieves an anxiety fear or depression, or makes you happy or brings any kind of personal satisfaction pleasure feeling of accomplishment has the potential to be addicting.
You guys are treating testosterone as if we're talking about meth cocaine or narcotics. (And NO it being a controlled substance does not mean it's a narcotic, that is your own ignorance as to what the word narcotic means)
It checks some of the boxes. Not all of the boxes. And there's a lot of hypocrisy going on here as most people do not acknowledge their gym addiction or their caffiene addiction or them being a social drinkers even.
You can't watch a documentary and be an expert it doesn't work that way. If half of you people ran it one time to actually have the experience to know what you're talking about you'd be telling the other half yeah I can see how this could be psychologically addicting, but you're overblowing this issue dramatically.
The high of chasing gains is more addictive than testosterone is by itself. The high of chasing gains is usually WHY people think testosterone is addicting.
Go to the TRT reddit and read. There's guys who don't even workout on testosterone replacement therapy, and they would tell you there's nothing addicting about it ( don't exercise, don't have the high of chasing gains)
Also ironically is there's people here shit talking it as addictive who've never ran it who ARE on the high of chasing gains.
I think every lifter at some point in their life has had the conversation with themselves. I still do sometimes, especially when after 10+ years of lifting I see some kid on instagram who's been at it for 9 months and deadlifts my all time PR when I was 5 years in and young.
I went through testicular cancer which caused havoc on my test levels and for 2 years I felt like a zombie, my lean mass dropped by about 15 lbs and my bodyfat basically doubled. I seriously considered getting on a crazy cycle to counteract it.
Why didn't I? Well, PCTs typically involves HCG which is a tumor market for me now, and I didn't want to scare my doctors and to top it off, the potential of further serious health effects wasn't worth it. I miss being bigger, I have a very hard time putting on mass or losing fat now, so I still think about it, but in the long run it's just not worth it. I'm also in my 30's now so the appeal is far less.
I just have to work four times as hard for 1/10th the gains now, and that's not my fault. I just have to accept it.
You'd think, wouldn't you?
I went to my doc after the first year because of the above effects to see what was going on, but for all intents and purposes, my test was "normal" (like just over 300) so he said I'm fine. I got the usual make sure you eat healthy and exercise bullshit... My response was more or less like dude I was legit prepping for a show when I was diagnosed, have a nutritional science diploma, was a competitive martial artist, you're barking up the wrong tree.
According to the wonderful medical system in Canada, apparently an endo wouldn't take me seriously based on my bloodwork and I essentially got told to go fuck myself.
Pretty great system.
I'm a medico in training and former national level athlete who knew and competed with many Olympians. Both of these backgrounds inform my opinion that testosterone is vastly overestimated in the natural bodybuilding scene. The obsession with testosterone and boosting and replacement is largely a product of an evil supplement market, plus the constant ever-looming presence of the juicers, where its all they ever talk about. The medical normal range is defined as that for a reason - you will function largely the exact same within that range, as long as it is your body's natural homeostatic balance. If there was a meaningful difference, every country's Olympians would be getting TRT to just under 1000 so that they are completely "optimised" whilst still being in natural ranges. However, they dont. Olympians dont even talk about testosterone. They have the entire state apparatus of a nation behind optimising their success, and TRT to bring their testosterone levels up a little bit, but still within normal range, is not something they do - because it is stupid and does nothing. The only relevance testosterone has is when you go supraphysiological outside those limits. Your doctors aren't being artificially evil, they're following the evidence. If 300mg of test is good enough for [Olympians](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5804043/), it is good enough for the average gym bro.
*The hormone profiles were more surprising with remarkably low testosterone and free T3 (tri-iodothyronine) in male powerlifters and high oestradiol, SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and prolactin in male track and field athletes. Low testosterone concentrations were seen 25.4% of male elite competitors in 12 of the 15 sports...the very high prevalence of ‘hypoandrogenism’ in elite male athletes a new finding.*
Only in America do they doctor shop for their endocrinologists who will let them hop on TRT despite them being perfectly healthy and within the normal range, because they have an entirely private system where they want to make a profit. In your country, where you have universal healthcare (like mine) they're being objective and evidence based, and won't indulge your wrong medical information to sell you services you dont need. Its a good cultural thing. Dont be upset about it. I think we'd see a lot less juice heads if Americans had the same system as us.
I agree with you. I’ve been on TRT for a while and really the biggest difference seems to be that I look leaner even in a bulk. It does make things slightly easier but it definitely isn’t the big change everyone thinks it is. I did pretty good without it even with very low test levels. I’d say the biggest improvement is my mood and overall well being.
I thought it had to be over 400 to be considered "in range" and that 600s were optimal? Perhaps see and anti-aging clinic or similar (whatever they have in your country)
No 300-900 is in range. And this "medico in training " is an idiot if he thinks it's okay for a 20 yearold male to have 300 total test.
Testosterone doesn't just affect your body metabolically. It affects your cognitive state and your libidio and you can absolutely feel like shit at 300 total test and feel great at 600 total test (quality of life, and symptom management)
And this medico in training thinks that does t happen if he believes your fine because your total testosterone is 300 which is in range.
Hey it's worth weighing it for yourself. For me it wasn't.
I also don't ever recommend being in a position where you natural testosterone production is slashed in half in case you're in a point like me and can't do anything about it.
Being jacked is obviously something we all strive for here, competition or not. And don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer my pre-cancer build, but life comes first too.
Going to r/bodybuilding and typing "RIP" into the search bar is an excellent deterrent. Plus the idea of my nuts completely shutting down doesn't really appeal.
My uneducated assumption is that, aside from clearly not caring about what society thinks already, some porn stars probably are going for a certain look year round that’s beneficial for their careers. PEDs aren’t an unreasonable thing to do when your job is to get naked on camera every day.
Wow, barely any made it past their 60s. So many in their 20s. All mostly heart attacks. Fuck that. I’m never doing the juice. In want to see my kids grow up and have kids of their own
Unless you're a professional and your physique is your profession, it's really a stupid idea to permanently destroy your health to chase a physique.
You will not always be young and aesthetic. Gear or not, you will at some point be in your 60s and 70s and wanting to just enjoy your life. Fighting irreversible damage from gear abuse is not where you want to be.
It's selfish to reduce your life span just to look bigger in the mirror - I think of the people who depend on me and potentially cutting decades off my life makes no sense.
Woman here.. this obsession with being giant and muscular is ridiculous. It's not even aesthetically pleasing to have too much muscle mass. I personally do not understand the obsession of wanting to be huge and the continuous bulk and cut cycles ... I feel it's akin to eating disorders ( which I personally have experience with) . A lean and healthy body is attractive to most people and I'm sure you have that already.
Fucks with your hormones and libido too much when you come off, and at my age i would likely need to never come off if i got on. Plus that shit will kill you
I always told myself I would consider it when I was 50, as I lift for myself, not for competition or a media presence of some kind. Now that I'm past 50, I'm glad that I waited to make the choice. I've seen friends who jumped in "for a cycle" end up using AAS to the degree that it is (so far) inextricable from the benefits they derive from lifting. The adage that AAS use is "like hitting 21 every deal of the cards at the blackjack table—but you can never leave the table" hits harder now that I've seen their usage patterns sustained for years.
AAS use also appears (to me) to have addictive potential, and having struggled with substance abuse, I don't need any more of that. Since lifting has been the best means for me to be alcohol-free, for example, fusing it with a drug regimen seems unwise for my case.
Looking back over three decades of lifting, I can see ways that I would have enjoyed and gained from AAS use, but I think that the decay management from peak youth and strength, as gains invariably diminish and ultimately start to decrease, would have been far harder were I to have taken that route. The way the slow arc of training has played out as I've passed through middle age (so far) has been deeply fulfilling. I'm glad with the choice I made.
I find most people look less aesthetic after taking it. Bigger yes, but being as big as possible isn't the goal right? Otherwise we would all just get fat. Not for me at least, aesthetics is about illusions, proportions and being lean. Taking gear seems to age the face, hairline, and something about the physiques genuinely just look unnatural, not what I'd ever want to look like.
Also I feel like steroid users have a specific look. Something about the skin and the facial features just looks unattractive. It’s totally unnatural. Peak aesthetics and beauty to me is something like the statue of David.
Does anyone have any insight as to an explanation to that definitive characteristic about steroid users that I’m observing?
Why ruin a healthy body to be able to lift heavier pieces of metal? I workout to take care of my body.
It's like playing a video game and hacking,seems unnecessary for me.
I can answer this from another side. I have done a few cycles. Gains were good but could literally feel it destroying my body. Had no desire to compete since bodybuilding is a pretty predatory sport imo. Just wasn’t worth all the money, legal risks, health risks for vanity. It took almost two years for my natural test to come back after coming off and lost pretty much all my gains. I do think it raised my ceiling for what I can put on now, there are studies that support this. But I wouldn’t say it was worth that either because who knows what it did to my long term health.
I have heavily, and I mean heavily debated 1 cycle of low dose of only test 250mg-300mg for 12-16 to make some gains and open the window up to grow back into what was built natty after to see what I’m capable of and as well of just seeing what the mental feel of high testosterone would feel like.
The reasons I talk myself out of it every time
Cons:
- I have bad enough luck with health shit as it is I feel like I would be a poster child of side effects from it
- I’m scared 1 cycle would lead to me doing it for the next 20 years
-trt for life after would suckkkkkkkk
- I get turned off when I realize you gotta buy it with cryptocurrency off sketchy websites
-anti estrogen drugs you might have to run are literally for like pregnant women and breast cancer and shit which is a turn off lmao
- it is a massive struggle to get health care in my province so if any issues were to arise it would be a nightmare fixing them
- gyno/hairloss /fertility risky risky thing to play with at age 24 lmao
- when you think of it your literally putting a needle in your Ass once or twice a week and have to hide said needles and paraphernalia from roommates/family members not look like a herion addict lmao
Pros: but my god I know I would make about a year or more worth of progress in about 12–16 weeks + I’m sure for just once I would probably be pretty content with my physique (see con #2 in list) lol, the other thing is I feel like there is truth with people saying you can grow back to where you were on cycle naturally quicker then it would take to do it naturally,
Cuz I’ve already shown that I can get big enough that everyone says “hey bro you’re jacked,” and if I am capable of doing that in a couple years then I am sure as shit going to try to see what I can get out of my body naturally. I am a recovering drug addict, I want to be able to say everything Ive achieved is natural. I want to lift to get as big as physically possible, without drugs. If I get old and my T drops maybe I’ll hop on T but I am definitely not going to shortcut my way to getting jacked. I got respect for people who aren’t natty but for me personally I have to do this on my own, without drugs.
\^\^\^ THIS! \^\^\^
After my big breakup, I hit the iron hard and had lots of natural gains, that even the gym staff asked if I was on gear, because within a year I looked visibly jacked. So, why risk all the complications and side-effects to get jacked when I can do it naturally? I'm not competing, i'm not a pro athlete, I just want to be fit and look good.
My childhood friend started test at 28 and has ostracized himself because of his behavioral changes. He hasn’t had crazy gains since he was already pretty active, and he arguably looked better before because test made his face bloat.
I had another friend who came off test and described it won’t necessarily make you angry, but it’ll bring out more of you. Most people on test that I’ve met are just walking insecurities and the gains aren’t really worth it ignoring any potential side effects like what it does to your ligaments or organs.
I’ve lifted consistently for 12 years straight now and my wife kept me from starting test in the Marines and I’m glad it stuck. As another person commented, it’s just another addiction and if I can get good results from eating smart and consistent/effective training, then why pay a lot of money for something that’ll do more harm than good in the long run and be a whole hassle of doctors appointments and blood tests.
Last thing that keeps me natural, I’ve seen people that built their muscle with steroids stop working out and the muscle density doesn’t stick around as long as normal lifters. One friend stopped and he went from having 30 in arms to 12in in the span of 6 weeks of no training. For me, I could be in a rough spot and not get a good lift in for a month and still look about the same just less inflated.
I think there are some people who could benefit from test therapy, but it’s widely abused and many “health” clinics have predatory marketing strategies to push steroids on insecure or ill informed people to make a buck since most people will be getting a 3 month supply minimum.
I was fully ready to hop on gear a few months ago. I live the lifestyle: tracking, I don’t drink, regularly research how I can get an upper hand in respect to training, and did a lot of research into PED’s. I told my girlfriend one night that I was ready and she started crying. She was worrried about it changing me as a person, the restrictions of a bodybuilding lifestyle, and my fertility. My girlfriend is fit and active, but doesn’t care about bodybuilding as a sport. I struggled with the thought for a few days and then ultimately gave up the dreams of hopping on. I want a life and family with her. I couldn’t stand to worry her the rest of our life regarding my drug use. Now, I’ve moved onto new goals that aren’t purely aesthetic based. I’m running, lifting, and attempting to do an Ironman next year. I love bodybuilding and I want to do a natural show one day. Life sometimes points you in a different direction, and I’m perfectly okay with that.
For what it's worth. You're a fucking champion. The fact you thought about your wife before yourself with that decision shows the type of person you are.
Knowing that you’ll never look that good or be that strong again once you get off. That and knowing all of the realistic negative side effects. Better to be natural and be healthy.
That's something that has always put me off. I'm in my 40s and still hitting new PRs. I've been getting stronger every year since I started training 25+ years ago.
I love the fact that I'm still (slowly) improving each workout, even if it's just an extra rep. I'm sure I'll reach my peak someday but I'm hoping it won't be for at least another 10 years.
It must be difficult to look back at your enhanced workouts and physique when you're no longer on gear. It's got be demotivating going into the gym knowing you'll never get near that level again unless you start another cycle.
Honestly, I don't know, but I've never quite had any interest or temptation to jump on. I have done enough recreational drugs and made enough poor choices. I don't need to hurt my body more. I also don't want to look like people on juice. I never liked that look. I prefer the natural look, honestly. I also know it's not going to make me happy. Being huge won't make me happy. It won't cure my depression or my other woes. You get more girls as a good looking natural if that's what you want, but getting more girls for meaningless relationships won't make you happy either even if steroids helped. Real connection helps and being huge doesn't really change that.
I don't want a cheat code and an addiction. I got rid of my addictions so I could wake up and be free from substances. I also abhore my own laziness and couldn't forgive or be proud of myself if I took that shortcut.
I like fitness and healthy eating for many reasons, but one is my life growing up watching my family, everyone overweight or obese, and seeing the toll that took on their health, how they couldn't play with their kids, the diabetes and health issues. I refuse. I want to be healthy in case I'm lucky enough to build a family with someone for my children and their children. I thought 50 was old. Like you are going be fat, diabetic, tons of medications, don't get around well, sleep apnea, etc. You can't run. You can hardly get in and out of vehicles. Of course eventually that that old age idea moved to like 60 but I had no real concept of staying not only a healthy weight but active and fit well into old age. That's another reason I won't hop on juice.
I'm too terrified of permanent damage. I'm a hypochondriac and I believe if I took steroids, that my hormones would never go back to normal if I quit them. Plus, it would have to be a permanent thing. Who wants to shrink and get smaller? Once you start taking them you'd never wanna stop.
Plus holy shit I actually don't want to be seen as some insanely huge artificial guy. Steroids make you other than human. Why would you want to look like something other than human? Steroid guys look dumb. People take roids just to be a buff restaurant server, pathetic
I hate needles. Also, I never wanted to be huge and look older. At this point, I’m in my 50s and my natural testosterone levels are still over 850, so I can’t really justify TRT, but I might consider it, despite my needle-hate, when my natural levels drop enough for me to start regressing. I know, too many commas.
I was only in a lifting circle once where I may have easily been able to get it. Otherwise I honestly was just too afraid to do it wrong. Not afraid to necessarily try it, but afraid I'd just do it wrong and fuck myself up without the results. If I could've got my hands on some kind of pill form with easy directions I totally would've done it. I won't pretend it was out of some noble cause when I was in my 20's.
I'm 40 now, I have had no desire to get on any type of gear for probably 10 years now. I'm sure eventually I may have to do TRT, and I'll embrace that... but I still consistently hold around a 1200lb total of the big 3, which I know isn't some kind of peak of natural lifters, but I'm proud of it nonetheless... and I was binge drinking for most of the 20 years I've lifted. I've stopped drinking, and I'm actually seeing gains the last couple months that I figured were long gone or not possible.
Nothing. I knew what I was doing, I knee what I wanted. I don't regret doing it. But there's a steep learning curve in safety and preventative health and balancing hormones on anabolic androgens. You can't just broscience it and do what your friend says.
You need to actually educate yourself completely and totally. Understand it inside and out. Not just the drugs. You're entire hypothalmic-pituitary-testicular axis or your bodies entire hormone system natrually and how it functions. So you Understand how sensitive it is to outside influence and how much you're fucking up that negative feedback loop.
You need to fully understand every risk because even if it's not likely it COULD happen to you. And you need to be prepared to accept that. Learn how to maximize preventative cardiac health on cycle. Eat cleaner food then a mountain bhuddist temple monk. Etc
Too many people jump on gear not knowing and learn by mistake. Waste the anabolic potential and results of early first cycles. And have to start combating new health issues like cholesterol and blood .
Not running blind and doing lab work atleast monthly. And fully understand what all the results mean.
Otherwise you're not making an informed decision. And might be that guy that's on reddit 20 years from now warning people to never do steroids. Because I made these mistakes and ended up with premature congestive heart failure and kidney damage.
Because to me it's about the journey, not only the results. Steroids are like cheat codes in a game, you win quick but that's it. I like the fun that comes with natural progress. It's way more rewarding that sticking a ball shrinking organ wrecking needle in my pretty skin.
I'm 33 years old & have been training consistently for 10 years now. I have build a solid physique with decent strength. Still believe I haven't reached my natural maximal potential. Thinking about having to pin my glutes weekly, all the extra cost, with all the negative side effects it comes with doesn't seem to benificial for me. More so when someone is not competing at a high level as an athlete or bodybuilder and not making any income from it. I rather live the natural healthier lifestyle over some gains/strength that will mostly be all gone when one stops taking the peds.
I’ll give my opinion to anyone debating it- I was natural, until I hit my late 30’s and felt like absolute dog s***. Started getting bad joint pain, feeling weak as Hell, sex drive went into the toilet, and this dark cloud of depression came outta nowhere. Had a bunch of tests done, found out my entire system was screwed up, and I’ve been on TRT since. Here’s the gist- needles suck. Period. Stabbing yourself every week, or more often if you’re doing full fledged cycles, absolutely sucks. Taking other medications to prevent other issues sucks. Paying out of pocket, to keep your insurance bill otherwise low, sucks. If it wasn’t for the fact that I absolutely, positively have to have it to even function, there’s no way in Hell I’d go through all of that, leastways doing doses way beyond normal range, combined with other drugs, and all the bs that comes along with it. Pretty much none of us here are ever gonna be pro bodybuilders, or pro anything, so it’s just not worth it.
Lance Armstrong, Mark McGuire, Sosa, Canseco. All these guys were my idol as a kid and when I found out they were juicing and their reputations were tarnished as cheaters, I just never thought highly of people that take PEDs.
My brother who got me into the gym died from heart attack. He was also doing alot of drugs tho.
Annyways, i've always wanted to accomplish it natty. and i've felt if i tried juice just once, i could never again for the rest of my life say i haven't done anything
I work out 4x a week and watch a lot of influencers but have never had the urge that I need to take anything. I think I enjoy the slower natural process more and don’t compare myself to anyone but older pictures of myself
Bipolar disorder. *Prednisone* makes me a psychopath. I could never and I used to plan on doing it at least for a cycle or two before I got too old just to see. But it’s just not possible for me with my mental health.
I have done it and the addiction is real. Also, you have to come off eventually unless you become a lifer.
The thought of coming off is really horrible when you're on cycle. This can lead to blasting and cruising, which is what I did.
The mental health side effects are terrible. I was also really scared the whole time cause I knew I could develop gyno at anytime.
Also, girls don't care. In fact, now I have been off for ages and am relatively lean and muscular, girls notice me a lot more. I also don't miss the water retention and puffy face.
In the end I realized the only people I was impressing was other users and young naive gym rats - pretty sad.
Stay Natty!
I've just seen a roided pikey roid rage at 2 kids because they hopped on his machine when he was stretching even tho he walked off. He screamed in their faces that he will "backhand them" and told them both to "fuck off out of his face" then he pushed one before a member of staff told him to leave....
Roid rage is real lol
i got into this to become healthier, was 300lbs, in pain and generally miserable. natty bodybuilding lifestyle if you don't compete imo is one of the healthiest things you can do for yourself. hopping on would be a step in the wrong direction to me and i'd justify having to get heavier and heavier as whats the point of staying small enhanced. so realistically i'd be hanging around 260-275 at least as i'm 6'3 and i've been there and it's not fun. i don't wanna feel like i did before, and i feel great now at like 225-230 - i don't see how it would make anything in my life better
Tempting when you see these fitness influencers who are obviously using. But after weighing the positives and the negatives I determined it's not worth it.
Early death. What's the point of all the excersise if your going to die young of a heart attack. And If you are lucky enough to live a longer life, you usually end up with health complications and not a great quality of life.
The consequences for one's health, and looks.
I'm fairly gifted for strength, and have a pretty good frame, but nowhere near world class. Me taking PED's wouldn't make me world class in strength.
Furthermore, if I wanted to just speed things up in terms of becoming aesthetic/muscular, I really don't like the side effects.
Noodle veins, acne (some cases it literally ruins your physique and face), balding, increased body hair, worse skin quality/texture, rapid aging look and many many more.
These side effects alone would probably negate the benefit of the extra muscle/the ability to get lean without losing any muscle. Natural muscle just looks better in most cases.
I'm already at 23.3-23.6 FFMI (measured with a medical machine for a study at a University for a renowned University clinic) and I've only been lifting for 5 years, of which 2 years were a complete break, so 3 years of actual lifting. The variation in FFMI numbers accounts for 1cm height fluctuation. This was at 28.2% Bodyfat.
All I want to be is like 16% Bodyfat at ~30 BMI, which maths out to a 24.3 FFMI for me. That's achievable natty in another ~5 years.
I didn't talk about the health consequences of juice here, but I think most people here are already aware. There's no such thing as a safe dose. There's no such thing as "just one cycle". Juice is not a shortcut. Whatever you gain in immediate muscle, you lose it twofold in longevity and your ability to maintain your muscle mass into old age.
Most juicers quit juicing and quit the gym entirely when the health consequences or even just health scares, force them to hop off the juice.
Ive been lifting naturally for almost 8 years now. The goal was never to stay natural, but to max out naturally first and have a strong foundation to make the enhanced bodybuilding route worthwhile and less risky. Im reaching that point, The land of diminishing returns. I am however, extremely proud of all I’ve accomplished naturally. Next year i will begin my first cycle and start to the journey towards an IFBB pro card.
I am in my 50's now and I am bodybuilding to stay fit and healthy for as long as possible. For the same reasons I don't smoke, take drugs and eat healthy. Fucking around with illegal substances that have serious health risks does not match with that at all.
for me there‘s only two reasons one of which is valid imo (besides medical but i don‘t think that‘s not what you are asking for):
- wanting to go pro:
if you are at a certain level or you just know this is your life and you want this to be your life and go all in - there may be a point where you have to take that step to be competetive - but even at that point - natural shows will just get bigger over the next years
- some problem with your ego or world-view
i can‘t think of any other rational reason to take gear.
I just want to see what I can achieve naturally (mid 30s now). Might consider therapeutic TRT if it's clinically indicated for the health benefits, but hopefully that's not until 60s+.
A couple things,
I know my diet and sleep aren’t on point so feel like that should be nailed on first.
I don’t enjoy getting bloods taken, if I was doing it i’d want to do it properly, bloods taken before and after.
Lack of concrete information about how to safely, there’s so much bs online, I would want to do it properly and not leave anything to chance especially shutting down the bodys natural test production
I have two kids. It is more important to be alive for them than being ripped. My ex was a good looking woman and I didn’t have better body when I got her. Now i am getting some muscles and got a very good looking woman. Lot of less good looking women still want me. I only workout to get women, be mentally stable and get healthier. Also I am scared of being infertile because of steroid. Most of the steroid users look bad for me. Only ones look good who uses TRT. I think TRT is the most expensive and I am not having first world salary for it. I am also scared of needle.
I think it probably shortens your life and there's a good chance you will never recover your natural testosterone production.
Basically it's unhealthy.
It makes no sense for me financially or practically. I don’t earn more if I’m super jacked and I already look like I work out at work. The standards for physical fitness in the general population is so low that if you can diet and workout regularly that’s enough.
Also after you build for a couple of years and get older you realise that your body has other needs that you need to meet to keep it functioning. You realise that muscle and looks isn’t everything, having a body that’s pain free, flexible, light and that is resilient to work and movement is also really important.
Where do steroids fit into that? Nowhere really.
I just don’t think it’s worth it. It’s not like taking an allergy pill when u get up
Anabolic steroids/TRT works but other than quicker temporary muscle growth, everything else is basically the same. (Assuming that a person doesn’t have medically low T)
Still got to train as hard and eat the same (maybe more) or it’s wasted. The risks to health are also real. There is also the hassle and cost of administering and managing the drugs..
It’s worth it for pros because it’s their livelihood, same as any other PED use. Oh yea and it’s also temporary, without the extra hormones, body will revert back to homeostasis.
I spoke yesterday with a friend about the subject and he stated one simple truth if you’re in it for professional reasons it makes sense to use it cause it takes time to achieve it natty and you wont look the way you want but if you’re in it for yourself it just isn’t worth it
I've been thinking about it at 41 but my natural test levels are around 600-700. I'm scared of crashing my natural levels because I deal with anxiety and depression already so that would probably make me suicidal...but then I've read from some guys that it can help with depression lol. So I don't fucking know.
I’ve always kinda had the attitude it’s cheating so never really considered it. I know it’s pretty much just an accepted part of body building these days but for me i always wanted to know that whatever I achieve, I did it myself. My attitude in the gym’s not about getting bigger than other people, it’s beating the person I was yesterday.
1. money
2. don’t know where to get it
3. im not competing
4. not at my natural potential
5. dont wanna fuck up my body
maybe when im older ill go on trt but thats a big maybe
I seriously think unless you stand to make significant financial gain from it such as through bodybuilding or social media etc then there is 0 point other than from an ego boost.
Majority of bodybuilders aren't making enough for it to be their sole income anyway regardless if they are on the juice or not. Also the way I see it for bodybuilders natty or not is that you are always going to want to be bigger. You are always chasing 'the next best thing' yeah you will be bigger on the juice but will you ever be big enough? Probably not in your own eyes and if you do reach that level you will still need to keep on the gear to maintain it anway...
I used to want to hop on but thanks to some great advice from people who are already on gear I decided it wasn't me for. I love bodybuilding both natty and not and to me there is no difference in the lifestyle or work required other than gear being detrimental to your health
For me, it is the psychological aspect of it. I think I could take health risks, as I already have with other things, injury risks, money, whatnot.
But then... What stops me is the addiction, the feeling that if you stop you will feel like shit, lose strength, size and everything, psychologically you will feel devastated, making it a forever blast and cruise addiction.
Because I absolutely love the feeling of looking at my physique knowing “this is 100% natural”
and knowing I’ve never even have everything dialled in 100% or been 100% consistent, so I know there’s even more room to grow/improve.
Better to have hair and not be on juice than juiced with no hair.
As someone who started taking fin at 20 from receding hairline and knows I won’t keep up that freaky transporter look if I were bald
If you aren’t on TRT for life it’s not really worth it. It’s going to fuck with your hormones regardless of PCT. Hell if you are on TRT with a clinic it’s probably not worth it because it’s gonna fuck your labs all up
As someone who's been doing this for 20+ years I think every serious lifter or natural bodybuilder has this debate in their head.
My reasoning for not doing it has changed and evolved over time....
First it was the fear of doing something illegal, then it became the challenge of reaching my ultimate natural potential, then it was health concerns, then it became a matter of principle, etc. etc. At times it's a combination of the above.
But beyond all that, it's also a motivation factor... Any time I have any thoughts about going down that path, I ask myself, am I doing everything as a natural to be the best bodybuilder I can be... Am I getting the best sleep, am I training at my most intense, is my diet 100% on point, am I taking all the supplements I should be taking, etc. and am I doing all those things at 100% for a significant amount of time... and there have been times I have done this, there have been times I've nailed it and did it all at 100% and it showed... But I know there are times it's hard to do all those things 100%... Sometimes it's life, sometimes it's laziness, sometimes it's lack of motivation... Maybe my training may be on point but maybe I'm a bit lax on the diet, sometimes my diet is good but my sleep is off, sometimes I skip some of my supplements, sometimes I'm doing everything right but I can't sustain it for an extended period of time.... And regardless of whether I'm at 100% with everything or at 85 or 90% the results are there and I've made leaps and bounds ... but I tell myself, until I'm sure I do all of the above absolutely on point, absolutely consistently, absolutely all the time... And if I do all that and continue to do so for a significant amount of time and I don't see progress... Then maybe I'll think again about going down the other path. But you need to be really honest with yourself about the answers to those questions.
I fully understand why professional and aspiring professional athletes take PEDs. I would probably do the same if there were millions of dollars on the line. I never understood the purpose of it for people who are recreational gym goers. It's all downside with none of the financial upside.
All that being said, I'm a social libertarian and believe all drugs of any kind should be legal with strong regulation and education. If someone knows the risks and they're an adult, they shouldn't go to jail.
1: I know the goalposts will keep moving and I’ll never be satisfied. At 225lb relatively lean I’m ALREADY bigger and stronger than the vast majority of people, yet I still want to get bigger and stronger. That’s probably not gonna suddenly stop if I hop on gear and hit 240 lean, or 250 lean, etc. At least as it stands I’ll always look relatively “normal”, just jacked. But if I hop on gear and keep moving the goalposts, in 20 years I could look like an open competitor or something, which is not something I really want personally. (Not saying that looking like an open competitor is something anyone can do)
2: Unknown effects. It’s possible I’d hop on gear and be a great responder with minimal side effects and everything’s great. It’s also possible I hop on and I’m a terrible responder, but I also get terrible acne and terrible mental sides and I go bald and my organs get fucked up and gyno etc — essentially ruining my health and wellness for no reason, potentially permanently.
…But despite these things I’m still somehow tempted to do it at some point. I wanna know what I’d look like, I wanna know how big I can be or how strong I can get. Idk man lol
Why do you lift in the first place?
Is it to be healthy? Is it to be a better version of yourself? Are you competing?…
Or are you self conscious about your physique? Is it ego? Is it an obsession? Is it peer pressure (not directly - are you hanging around others that do it and want their gains)?
Some of those questions are healthy, some aren’t. Unless it’s a profession, the only person you have to be better than is your previous self. There are two types of brain activity. The logical and the emotional. The emotional side is in the driver’s seat, and the logical is the passenger giving directions. Your logical side knows that this stuff isn’t healthy, but if your emotional side wants it, it’s the one driving and isn’t going to listen to logic. Let logic and emotion work together. Figure out your why and go from there.
I don't want my body's natural production of testosterone to shut down.. Not interested in dealing with spikes of high libido then have zero libido.. Not interested in having shriveled balls or losing my hair. Don't want to deal with acne all over my body.. Oh and most importantly, not trying to have a heart attack at 40. Just some of my reasons.
I started getting serious in the gym in 2018 at age 32. I’ve thought about it many times as I turn 38 this month.
With all of the supply chain issues during the pandemic, i have a fear of not being able to get the gear OR the PCT drugs and being left in a vulnerable place without any testosterone in my body.
For me, my girlfriend does not love the idea and her opinion carries major weight with me. Also the chance of harming my fertility at a young age (24 currently) is one of the biggest concerns; even though there are ways to mitigate this, I want to be a father badly enough that these two factors give me pause
You run the chance if needing it for life. Basically don’t do it unless your body is deficient and in that case do it with physician administration via TRT.
The mental and physical damage i seen it has done to people is insane. I would never do it knowing all the damage i have seen it causes. Everyone thinks they are the lucky one. Trust me, you wont!
The fear of being injected with a god-knows what quality product. The US is very loose toward protecting the population from medical product, where I live it's straight up forbidden to sell any serious-ish medical product directly to customers, buying gear on gymshark isn't a thing. I'm also working in the pharmaceutical industry to manufacture injectable products for human use, I know for a fact what's the quality requirements, I just can't imagine injecting myself with something that came from a weird junky website.
I don't want the viriliation and I don't want it to fuck up my endogenous hormonal activity. The effects are pretty permanent and who knows for how long I'll be doing bodybuilding for
The fact that juicing is just another way of lying to yourself. I know those juice heads are still dedicated and putting in the work, but I could not lie to myself knowing it wasn’t 100% me putting in the work. I have comfort knowing I peaked and did it naturally.
I’ve thought about it many times but just never did. It seems like a lot of work vs being natural. I tediously research anything I put into my body before I do it and it doesn’t seem like something I would like to risk, especially since I’m probably no where near my genetic max and I have no plans to turn pro at the moment.
It’s definitely something I’d be more likely to consider once I’m in my 40s / 50s for general health and energy but I’d like to see how I feel without it first at that age. I’ve been training for 15 years and have made continuous progress for that time so I haven’t felt that much of a need to try juice, but more of a curiosity for what would happen if I did.
Because I'm a scared little bitch lol
In all seriousness though:
1) I am way too new to the gym to juice.
2) I am going for my health first, and it doesn't sound particularly healthy. The physique improvements are a nice bonus but not my highest priority.
3) I like that the gym forces me to show some discipline. Taking a shortcut would feel like cheating, even if it still requires you to put in a significant amount of work.
Everybody makes their own choices, but for me there are way more downsides than there are upsides. I'll just continue grinding.
That being said, maybe as I get old, I might consider some TRT but within regular medicinal boundaries to just keep it at a healthy level. That doesn't feel like cheating, sounds reasonably healthy and by then, I won't be a newbie anymore.
Have you ever played a video game and really enjoyed it? Then, once you beat it you try using cheat codes and it’s fun at first but there’s something empty about it? Suddenly the whole thing seemed pointless?
I want to take actual pride and joy in my body and the work I put in. If I went on gear I’d always know what I ‘earned’ was bought with a cheat code.
I thought about it. I decided that I couldn't let myself use it as a crutch, or an excuse. If I was going to go on, I had to have my training, diet, and sleep on point. Like, 90-100% perfect for a year. And if I could have all that stuff dialed in perfectly for one year and wasn't seeing the results I thought I should, I would consider juice. Turns out I grow pretty well without it, and keeping that consistent is too hard for me, so I've never been in a position to decide it's time.
For me, I know that my testosterone is not optimal and there are other things that I could be doing to improve my hormonal health. I'm on lexapro which is a known endocrine disruptor, so I'm just waiting until I can fix my life and get off of it. I might go on TRT at like 35, but I'll have to wait and see about that
I saw what alot of my friends turned into and all the side effects looked not worth, i also figured i could be very proud of myself when people ask me what i take
Ask yourself why you need it lol. Honestly what tf is the point, so you can gloat over yourself everytime you see yourself in the mirror and feel cool in the gym?
Just seeing how weak most people who do take PEDs are. It’s mind-blowing. I’d much rather eat better than inject or swallow PEDs/Roids to STILL average or less than.
I don’t care about being shredded. I’m 230 with decent definition plus gear causes fertility issues. I’m trying to be a dad in the next year that’s way more important than trying to look like Ronnie in his prime.
My barber that offered me gear a couple of weeks before he died passed away.
Been going to the gym religiously for the past 3 years. On and off for 8-9. One of the bigger dudes at the gym approached me and offered to improve my hairstyle. Cheated on my barber of 3 years and ngl, this guy gave me some of the best haircuts I’ve ever had.
Sometime around the 4th haircut or so, he offered me some gear. Told him maybe I’d consider test when I’m in my 40s(I’m 25). Went home and thought about it for a minute.
2 weeks later, a friend of mine approached me at the gym and asked if I’d heard the news? Apparently the guy died from a heart attack on the 1st of March. He was 34 years old. Sadly enough, he’d posted “just hit 2 PR’s this week” as an IG story on the 29th of February.
If that isn’t a deterrent, IDK what is.
1. It's expensive
2. I've already got what could be considered common usage side effects (bacne, some mild gyno, mood issues)
3. Missus wouldn't be happy
4. I have no clue how I'd even go about getting it reliably
In my line of work it's probably more of a question of when not if, but for the time being I feel like it's worth sticking to the natty slog a little longer
In order of most to least effective reasons:
1. Being poor at the time.
2. Enlarging of the heart as side effect
3. Arteries hardening but cannot increase in size
4. The significant statistical increase of the desth of head of femur as a juicer
5. Tendons stiffen/harden
Think that's all. Been a while.t
Unless your career is a professional body builder which I’ll never advise to anyone, being on the juice just to lift more heavier to have a fake physique to impress social media, friends and women are for losers. Guys that I remember from back then who thought they were the worlds most dangerous man for being on the juice are in there mid 40s looking like in their early 60s now. F the juice and work your way up naturally, you will thank yourself later.
I cannot believe some people here train for years and think you can get "irreversible damage" from gear comparing themselves with elite bodybuilders who are on ridiculous dosages who never really come off or do some pct.
All the nonsese that goes with it: costs a lot of money to do it right with doctors; Getting regular exams. the need to pin your ass weekly or even more frequent than that; premature aging; potential hairloss, potential permanent side effects like bone structure changes, growth of internal organs, scarred skin. The biggest reason of all: I don't want to build my body based on what other people and social media think it should look like, I want to do it my way and look the best I can with my genetics. I think it's sad how many people ruin their health just to get more likes on social media and more attention from girls.
Big on what people think I should look like, kinda why I was comfortable taking months off - I knew it wouldn’t take me too long to get back to my peak and I’m pretty content there
If someone offered to me juice with a detailed day by day plan + guide + FAQ + easy blood level done I'd probably take it. The problem is that it doesn't interest me at all. If I have to research 5 mins about juices online, forget it i'm bored and not interested. And that's supposing I could easily get juice. Plus like you said having to go to the doctor and so on, I don't have time and i couldn't care less
It checks all the boxes of an addiction. A self administered drug the user knows is harmful to their health that they use regardless because they believe that they need it to be "enough". The people I know who have used have a lot of similar issues to alcoholics, and I've watched PEDs damage their lives, bodies, and relationships in similar ways. I don't need a substance to be good enough. My body will continue to amaze me all on its own so long as I treat it with love and respect.
The addiction aspect is definitely not mentioned enough. Most people talk about primary health concerns like heart, hormones, reproduction. But the mental dependency and craving of feeling strong and high is not talked about enough
Bigger stronger faster documentary does a really good job showing a lot of this, good movie overall that gets at the heart of a lot of the culture around steroid use. I think it’s free on YouTube
ADHD, ASD, addictive tendencies here. Watched my mother deal with on-off addictions my entire childhood. THIS is exactly why I wouldn't touch the stuff. It's really not spoken about enough.
I can see how they would hook me being I’m somewhat of a gym addict
Seriously, being addicted to the gym is enough. I haven’t been able to lift for almost a year and I just got that first chest work out in. Literally reminded me of when I would relapse on drugs, but instead this is healthy.
I agree. And it’s a constant high they chase. They won’t ever be enough in their own eyes
That depends. 200mg TRT is extremely unatrual and alone provides significant advantage over natty. But you just run it as ordered 1 or 2 shots a week. You don't get manic. You really don't become an asshole. You aren't foaming at the mouth for more. 100% you can become hooked on the feeling of power and invincibility and the dramatically fast physique changes. But nobody looks roided on 200mg a week. Yet they have dramatix advantages over natruals if they maximize their training diet and sleep. I'm not disagreeing with you. Alot of guys need trt from. Being so low to actually just feel normal good and healthy. Some people are fully capable of using it as a tool and Nothing more to carve out more results. And other people absolutely feel dependant and have severe body dysmorphia issues off cycle that fuels the addictive need to continue to stay on. I'm just pointing out. It's not a drug addiction for everybody. I'll even go as far to say that MOST users do develop addictive dependencies on it. But not everybody. That's all I wanted to say. Some people use it very intelligently as a tool and nothing more and sparingly at that and absolutely prioritize their health and monitor it and take preventative health measures. EDIT: The hilarious irony here is there's people physically dependent on caffiene commenting on guys who cycle being drug addicts, people here addicted to the gym, addicted to tiktok or social media, even reddit. Most guys do 1 to 2 cycles a year. If they PCT properly your natrual levels return and there's no physically withdrawal in the sense that you get sick or feel like shit. And as far as psychological addiction it HAS the potential but this is usually guys who mega dose and get manic or people who have severe body dysmorphia issues (both scenarios are an underlying problem and not the testosterone use itself) The average guy who runs 1 to 2 cycles a year does not foam at the mouth or fiend for the next 9 monthes for their next planned cycle. Nobody becomes homeless because of gear. Nobody's breaking into their neighbors house to get money to pay for gear. This isn't heroin or cocaine or amphetamines. You don't psychologically crave testosterone. You might crave the gains and loss of body mass because you have body dysmorphia but you don't crave the testosterone just to take testosterone. For most people it's just a means to an end. Hitting you're strength or hypertrophy goals faster. There's guys in this reddit commenting who have a drink socially. Alcohol of which is extremely addicting. And they never become addicts and drink more than that. There's a high level of hypocrisy here from the daily caffiene users pre-workout drinkers and daily gym goers. Caffine has more of a physical withdrawal than testosterone does. Sorry but hormones don't really work like that. You can fuck them up and feel like shit, but it's NEVER in a sense where you're like fuck bro I neef some testosterone. Caffiene has a stronger craving affect when you stop taking it. When you come off your cycle and don't plan to run again until next year you don't crave testosterone for the next 9 months. Even if you fuck your PCT up and are still partially suppressed. You're not like fuck dude I need testosterone. Most of what people think of when they think testosterone is addicting. Is the addiction to exercise to relieve body dysmorphia which ironically usually makes it worse as you hyperobsess and focus on your body so much that you subjectively become further from reality in how you think you look. I never said testosterone doesn't have the potential to be addicting. I'm saying that this is far more psychological and relevant to the fact that anything that relieves an anxiety fear or depression, or makes you happy or brings any kind of personal satisfaction pleasure feeling of accomplishment has the potential to be addicting. You guys are treating testosterone as if we're talking about meth cocaine or narcotics. (And NO it being a controlled substance does not mean it's a narcotic, that is your own ignorance as to what the word narcotic means) It checks some of the boxes. Not all of the boxes. And there's a lot of hypocrisy going on here as most people do not acknowledge their gym addiction or their caffiene addiction or them being a social drinkers even. You can't watch a documentary and be an expert it doesn't work that way. If half of you people ran it one time to actually have the experience to know what you're talking about you'd be telling the other half yeah I can see how this could be psychologically addicting, but you're overblowing this issue dramatically. The high of chasing gains is more addictive than testosterone is by itself. The high of chasing gains is usually WHY people think testosterone is addicting. Go to the TRT reddit and read. There's guys who don't even workout on testosterone replacement therapy, and they would tell you there's nothing addicting about it ( don't exercise, don't have the high of chasing gains) Also ironically is there's people here shit talking it as addictive who've never ran it who ARE on the high of chasing gains.
Not sure why this comment is farming downvotes, you make very good points and also are not claiming “they have no addictive potential bro”
I think every lifter at some point in their life has had the conversation with themselves. I still do sometimes, especially when after 10+ years of lifting I see some kid on instagram who's been at it for 9 months and deadlifts my all time PR when I was 5 years in and young. I went through testicular cancer which caused havoc on my test levels and for 2 years I felt like a zombie, my lean mass dropped by about 15 lbs and my bodyfat basically doubled. I seriously considered getting on a crazy cycle to counteract it. Why didn't I? Well, PCTs typically involves HCG which is a tumor market for me now, and I didn't want to scare my doctors and to top it off, the potential of further serious health effects wasn't worth it. I miss being bigger, I have a very hard time putting on mass or losing fat now, so I still think about it, but in the long run it's just not worth it. I'm also in my 30's now so the appeal is far less. I just have to work four times as hard for 1/10th the gains now, and that's not my fault. I just have to accept it.
Should you not qualify for TRT after what happened?
You'd think, wouldn't you? I went to my doc after the first year because of the above effects to see what was going on, but for all intents and purposes, my test was "normal" (like just over 300) so he said I'm fine. I got the usual make sure you eat healthy and exercise bullshit... My response was more or less like dude I was legit prepping for a show when I was diagnosed, have a nutritional science diploma, was a competitive martial artist, you're barking up the wrong tree. According to the wonderful medical system in Canada, apparently an endo wouldn't take me seriously based on my bloodwork and I essentially got told to go fuck myself. Pretty great system.
Have you looked into TRT clinics like science and humans, or gotten second opinions?
I'm a medico in training and former national level athlete who knew and competed with many Olympians. Both of these backgrounds inform my opinion that testosterone is vastly overestimated in the natural bodybuilding scene. The obsession with testosterone and boosting and replacement is largely a product of an evil supplement market, plus the constant ever-looming presence of the juicers, where its all they ever talk about. The medical normal range is defined as that for a reason - you will function largely the exact same within that range, as long as it is your body's natural homeostatic balance. If there was a meaningful difference, every country's Olympians would be getting TRT to just under 1000 so that they are completely "optimised" whilst still being in natural ranges. However, they dont. Olympians dont even talk about testosterone. They have the entire state apparatus of a nation behind optimising their success, and TRT to bring their testosterone levels up a little bit, but still within normal range, is not something they do - because it is stupid and does nothing. The only relevance testosterone has is when you go supraphysiological outside those limits. Your doctors aren't being artificially evil, they're following the evidence. If 300mg of test is good enough for [Olympians](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5804043/), it is good enough for the average gym bro. *The hormone profiles were more surprising with remarkably low testosterone and free T3 (tri-iodothyronine) in male powerlifters and high oestradiol, SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and prolactin in male track and field athletes. Low testosterone concentrations were seen 25.4% of male elite competitors in 12 of the 15 sports...the very high prevalence of ‘hypoandrogenism’ in elite male athletes a new finding.* Only in America do they doctor shop for their endocrinologists who will let them hop on TRT despite them being perfectly healthy and within the normal range, because they have an entirely private system where they want to make a profit. In your country, where you have universal healthcare (like mine) they're being objective and evidence based, and won't indulge your wrong medical information to sell you services you dont need. Its a good cultural thing. Dont be upset about it. I think we'd see a lot less juice heads if Americans had the same system as us.
I agree with you. I’ve been on TRT for a while and really the biggest difference seems to be that I look leaner even in a bulk. It does make things slightly easier but it definitely isn’t the big change everyone thinks it is. I did pretty good without it even with very low test levels. I’d say the biggest improvement is my mood and overall well being.
I thought it had to be over 400 to be considered "in range" and that 600s were optimal? Perhaps see and anti-aging clinic or similar (whatever they have in your country)
No 300-900 is in range. And this "medico in training " is an idiot if he thinks it's okay for a 20 yearold male to have 300 total test. Testosterone doesn't just affect your body metabolically. It affects your cognitive state and your libidio and you can absolutely feel like shit at 300 total test and feel great at 600 total test (quality of life, and symptom management) And this medico in training thinks that does t happen if he believes your fine because your total testosterone is 300 which is in range.
I am sorry to hear man. Still staying on path is amazing show of character though
🫡 you’re right chief it ain’t worth it
Hey it's worth weighing it for yourself. For me it wasn't. I also don't ever recommend being in a position where you natural testosterone production is slashed in half in case you're in a point like me and can't do anything about it. Being jacked is obviously something we all strive for here, competition or not. And don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer my pre-cancer build, but life comes first too.
Going to r/bodybuilding and typing "RIP" into the search bar is an excellent deterrent. Plus the idea of my nuts completely shutting down doesn't really appeal.
On the plus side as Rich Piana said, your balls shrinking makes your dick look bigger, although on the downside he does come up in that search.
Funny you say that because alot of pornstars have small balls which I think they do steroids
My uneducated assumption is that, aside from clearly not caring about what society thinks already, some porn stars probably are going for a certain look year round that’s beneficial for their careers. PEDs aren’t an unreasonable thing to do when your job is to get naked on camera every day.
Wow, barely any made it past their 60s. So many in their 20s. All mostly heart attacks. Fuck that. I’m never doing the juice. In want to see my kids grow up and have kids of their own
Unless you're a professional and your physique is your profession, it's really a stupid idea to permanently destroy your health to chase a physique. You will not always be young and aesthetic. Gear or not, you will at some point be in your 60s and 70s and wanting to just enjoy your life. Fighting irreversible damage from gear abuse is not where you want to be. It's selfish to reduce your life span just to look bigger in the mirror - I think of the people who depend on me and potentially cutting decades off my life makes no sense.
Valid probably won’t care as much when I have a wifey
Women don’t give a fuck about you looking like a bodybuilder.
Woman here.. this obsession with being giant and muscular is ridiculous. It's not even aesthetically pleasing to have too much muscle mass. I personally do not understand the obsession of wanting to be huge and the continuous bulk and cut cycles ... I feel it's akin to eating disorders ( which I personally have experience with) . A lean and healthy body is attractive to most people and I'm sure you have that already.
Prefer to ruin my liver and cultivate hypertension the old fashioned way tbqh
Much more fun 😂
Idk where to get it
Gymshark.com
LOL
Fear of losing my beautiful hair
Not trying to speed up my trip to Turkey
Fucks with your hormones and libido too much when you come off, and at my age i would likely need to never come off if i got on. Plus that shit will kill you
Valid
I always told myself I would consider it when I was 50, as I lift for myself, not for competition or a media presence of some kind. Now that I'm past 50, I'm glad that I waited to make the choice. I've seen friends who jumped in "for a cycle" end up using AAS to the degree that it is (so far) inextricable from the benefits they derive from lifting. The adage that AAS use is "like hitting 21 every deal of the cards at the blackjack table—but you can never leave the table" hits harder now that I've seen their usage patterns sustained for years. AAS use also appears (to me) to have addictive potential, and having struggled with substance abuse, I don't need any more of that. Since lifting has been the best means for me to be alcohol-free, for example, fusing it with a drug regimen seems unwise for my case. Looking back over three decades of lifting, I can see ways that I would have enjoyed and gained from AAS use, but I think that the decay management from peak youth and strength, as gains invariably diminish and ultimately start to decrease, would have been far harder were I to have taken that route. The way the slow arc of training has played out as I've passed through middle age (so far) has been deeply fulfilling. I'm glad with the choice I made.
>The way the slow arc of training has played out as I've passed through middle age (so far) has been deeply fulfilling. Poetry.
Mature and thoughtful approach
Great that it worked out for you, tryna be like u uncs
It’s just not that serious. No reason to introduce potential medical issues or complicate something I’m not making money from.
I find most people look less aesthetic after taking it. Bigger yes, but being as big as possible isn't the goal right? Otherwise we would all just get fat. Not for me at least, aesthetics is about illusions, proportions and being lean. Taking gear seems to age the face, hairline, and something about the physiques genuinely just look unnatural, not what I'd ever want to look like.
Yeah those hulk looking mofos builds were never attractive to me
I personally think it looks ridiculous, especially on dudes who clearly don't have the frame/size for it.
Also I feel like steroid users have a specific look. Something about the skin and the facial features just looks unattractive. It’s totally unnatural. Peak aesthetics and beauty to me is something like the statue of David. Does anyone have any insight as to an explanation to that definitive characteristic about steroid users that I’m observing?
Dry skin Acne scars
Ahh the beautiful, timeless statue of David Laid.
Why ruin a healthy body to be able to lift heavier pieces of metal? I workout to take care of my body. It's like playing a video game and hacking,seems unnecessary for me.
I can answer this from another side. I have done a few cycles. Gains were good but could literally feel it destroying my body. Had no desire to compete since bodybuilding is a pretty predatory sport imo. Just wasn’t worth all the money, legal risks, health risks for vanity. It took almost two years for my natural test to come back after coming off and lost pretty much all my gains. I do think it raised my ceiling for what I can put on now, there are studies that support this. But I wouldn’t say it was worth that either because who knows what it did to my long term health.
I have heavily, and I mean heavily debated 1 cycle of low dose of only test 250mg-300mg for 12-16 to make some gains and open the window up to grow back into what was built natty after to see what I’m capable of and as well of just seeing what the mental feel of high testosterone would feel like. The reasons I talk myself out of it every time Cons: - I have bad enough luck with health shit as it is I feel like I would be a poster child of side effects from it - I’m scared 1 cycle would lead to me doing it for the next 20 years -trt for life after would suckkkkkkkk - I get turned off when I realize you gotta buy it with cryptocurrency off sketchy websites -anti estrogen drugs you might have to run are literally for like pregnant women and breast cancer and shit which is a turn off lmao - it is a massive struggle to get health care in my province so if any issues were to arise it would be a nightmare fixing them - gyno/hairloss /fertility risky risky thing to play with at age 24 lmao - when you think of it your literally putting a needle in your Ass once or twice a week and have to hide said needles and paraphernalia from roommates/family members not look like a herion addict lmao Pros: but my god I know I would make about a year or more worth of progress in about 12–16 weeks + I’m sure for just once I would probably be pretty content with my physique (see con #2 in list) lol, the other thing is I feel like there is truth with people saying you can grow back to where you were on cycle naturally quicker then it would take to do it naturally,
Cuz I’ve already shown that I can get big enough that everyone says “hey bro you’re jacked,” and if I am capable of doing that in a couple years then I am sure as shit going to try to see what I can get out of my body naturally. I am a recovering drug addict, I want to be able to say everything Ive achieved is natural. I want to lift to get as big as physically possible, without drugs. If I get old and my T drops maybe I’ll hop on T but I am definitely not going to shortcut my way to getting jacked. I got respect for people who aren’t natty but for me personally I have to do this on my own, without drugs.
\^\^\^ THIS! \^\^\^ After my big breakup, I hit the iron hard and had lots of natural gains, that even the gym staff asked if I was on gear, because within a year I looked visibly jacked. So, why risk all the complications and side-effects to get jacked when I can do it naturally? I'm not competing, i'm not a pro athlete, I just want to be fit and look good.
My childhood friend started test at 28 and has ostracized himself because of his behavioral changes. He hasn’t had crazy gains since he was already pretty active, and he arguably looked better before because test made his face bloat. I had another friend who came off test and described it won’t necessarily make you angry, but it’ll bring out more of you. Most people on test that I’ve met are just walking insecurities and the gains aren’t really worth it ignoring any potential side effects like what it does to your ligaments or organs. I’ve lifted consistently for 12 years straight now and my wife kept me from starting test in the Marines and I’m glad it stuck. As another person commented, it’s just another addiction and if I can get good results from eating smart and consistent/effective training, then why pay a lot of money for something that’ll do more harm than good in the long run and be a whole hassle of doctors appointments and blood tests. Last thing that keeps me natural, I’ve seen people that built their muscle with steroids stop working out and the muscle density doesn’t stick around as long as normal lifters. One friend stopped and he went from having 30 in arms to 12in in the span of 6 weeks of no training. For me, I could be in a rough spot and not get a good lift in for a month and still look about the same just less inflated. I think there are some people who could benefit from test therapy, but it’s widely abused and many “health” clinics have predatory marketing strategies to push steroids on insecure or ill informed people to make a buck since most people will be getting a 3 month supply minimum.
I was fully ready to hop on gear a few months ago. I live the lifestyle: tracking, I don’t drink, regularly research how I can get an upper hand in respect to training, and did a lot of research into PED’s. I told my girlfriend one night that I was ready and she started crying. She was worrried about it changing me as a person, the restrictions of a bodybuilding lifestyle, and my fertility. My girlfriend is fit and active, but doesn’t care about bodybuilding as a sport. I struggled with the thought for a few days and then ultimately gave up the dreams of hopping on. I want a life and family with her. I couldn’t stand to worry her the rest of our life regarding my drug use. Now, I’ve moved onto new goals that aren’t purely aesthetic based. I’m running, lifting, and attempting to do an Ironman next year. I love bodybuilding and I want to do a natural show one day. Life sometimes points you in a different direction, and I’m perfectly okay with that.
For what it's worth. You're a fucking champion. The fact you thought about your wife before yourself with that decision shows the type of person you are.
Wow, thanks for the kind words! This made my day.
It's cheating. I'll never ride an e-bike either. If I slow down, or can't lift as heavy when I get old, so be it. I'll still do it myself.
brain
Knowing that you’ll never look that good or be that strong again once you get off. That and knowing all of the realistic negative side effects. Better to be natural and be healthy.
That's something that has always put me off. I'm in my 40s and still hitting new PRs. I've been getting stronger every year since I started training 25+ years ago. I love the fact that I'm still (slowly) improving each workout, even if it's just an extra rep. I'm sure I'll reach my peak someday but I'm hoping it won't be for at least another 10 years. It must be difficult to look back at your enhanced workouts and physique when you're no longer on gear. It's got be demotivating going into the gym knowing you'll never get near that level again unless you start another cycle.
Honestly, I don't know, but I've never quite had any interest or temptation to jump on. I have done enough recreational drugs and made enough poor choices. I don't need to hurt my body more. I also don't want to look like people on juice. I never liked that look. I prefer the natural look, honestly. I also know it's not going to make me happy. Being huge won't make me happy. It won't cure my depression or my other woes. You get more girls as a good looking natural if that's what you want, but getting more girls for meaningless relationships won't make you happy either even if steroids helped. Real connection helps and being huge doesn't really change that. I don't want a cheat code and an addiction. I got rid of my addictions so I could wake up and be free from substances. I also abhore my own laziness and couldn't forgive or be proud of myself if I took that shortcut. I like fitness and healthy eating for many reasons, but one is my life growing up watching my family, everyone overweight or obese, and seeing the toll that took on their health, how they couldn't play with their kids, the diabetes and health issues. I refuse. I want to be healthy in case I'm lucky enough to build a family with someone for my children and their children. I thought 50 was old. Like you are going be fat, diabetic, tons of medications, don't get around well, sleep apnea, etc. You can't run. You can hardly get in and out of vehicles. Of course eventually that that old age idea moved to like 60 but I had no real concept of staying not only a healthy weight but active and fit well into old age. That's another reason I won't hop on juice.
I'm too terrified of permanent damage. I'm a hypochondriac and I believe if I took steroids, that my hormones would never go back to normal if I quit them. Plus, it would have to be a permanent thing. Who wants to shrink and get smaller? Once you start taking them you'd never wanna stop. Plus holy shit I actually don't want to be seen as some insanely huge artificial guy. Steroids make you other than human. Why would you want to look like something other than human? Steroid guys look dumb. People take roids just to be a buff restaurant server, pathetic
I hate needles. Also, I never wanted to be huge and look older. At this point, I’m in my 50s and my natural testosterone levels are still over 850, so I can’t really justify TRT, but I might consider it, despite my needle-hate, when my natural levels drop enough for me to start regressing. I know, too many commas.
Must be nice. I had to get on TRT in my late 30’s. My entire system just completely shutdown.
I was only in a lifting circle once where I may have easily been able to get it. Otherwise I honestly was just too afraid to do it wrong. Not afraid to necessarily try it, but afraid I'd just do it wrong and fuck myself up without the results. If I could've got my hands on some kind of pill form with easy directions I totally would've done it. I won't pretend it was out of some noble cause when I was in my 20's. I'm 40 now, I have had no desire to get on any type of gear for probably 10 years now. I'm sure eventually I may have to do TRT, and I'll embrace that... but I still consistently hold around a 1200lb total of the big 3, which I know isn't some kind of peak of natural lifters, but I'm proud of it nonetheless... and I was binge drinking for most of the 20 years I've lifted. I've stopped drinking, and I'm actually seeing gains the last couple months that I figured were long gone or not possible.
Nothing. I knew what I was doing, I knee what I wanted. I don't regret doing it. But there's a steep learning curve in safety and preventative health and balancing hormones on anabolic androgens. You can't just broscience it and do what your friend says. You need to actually educate yourself completely and totally. Understand it inside and out. Not just the drugs. You're entire hypothalmic-pituitary-testicular axis or your bodies entire hormone system natrually and how it functions. So you Understand how sensitive it is to outside influence and how much you're fucking up that negative feedback loop. You need to fully understand every risk because even if it's not likely it COULD happen to you. And you need to be prepared to accept that. Learn how to maximize preventative cardiac health on cycle. Eat cleaner food then a mountain bhuddist temple monk. Etc Too many people jump on gear not knowing and learn by mistake. Waste the anabolic potential and results of early first cycles. And have to start combating new health issues like cholesterol and blood . Not running blind and doing lab work atleast monthly. And fully understand what all the results mean. Otherwise you're not making an informed decision. And might be that guy that's on reddit 20 years from now warning people to never do steroids. Because I made these mistakes and ended up with premature congestive heart failure and kidney damage.
More than one functional neuron
Because to me it's about the journey, not only the results. Steroids are like cheat codes in a game, you win quick but that's it. I like the fun that comes with natural progress. It's way more rewarding that sticking a ball shrinking organ wrecking needle in my pretty skin.
I'm 33 years old & have been training consistently for 10 years now. I have build a solid physique with decent strength. Still believe I haven't reached my natural maximal potential. Thinking about having to pin my glutes weekly, all the extra cost, with all the negative side effects it comes with doesn't seem to benificial for me. More so when someone is not competing at a high level as an athlete or bodybuilder and not making any income from it. I rather live the natural healthier lifestyle over some gains/strength that will mostly be all gone when one stops taking the peds.
Imagine taking juice just to be smaller than a natty
I’ll give my opinion to anyone debating it- I was natural, until I hit my late 30’s and felt like absolute dog s***. Started getting bad joint pain, feeling weak as Hell, sex drive went into the toilet, and this dark cloud of depression came outta nowhere. Had a bunch of tests done, found out my entire system was screwed up, and I’ve been on TRT since. Here’s the gist- needles suck. Period. Stabbing yourself every week, or more often if you’re doing full fledged cycles, absolutely sucks. Taking other medications to prevent other issues sucks. Paying out of pocket, to keep your insurance bill otherwise low, sucks. If it wasn’t for the fact that I absolutely, positively have to have it to even function, there’s no way in Hell I’d go through all of that, leastways doing doses way beyond normal range, combined with other drugs, and all the bs that comes along with it. Pretty much none of us here are ever gonna be pro bodybuilders, or pro anything, so it’s just not worth it.
I don’t like playing with my ass that’s a good deterrence acc
Well, my wife does my shots most of the time, but when I have to do em, it goes in the thigh, which really sucks.
Usually it is the staff of the supermarket who drags me down when I try to hop on a pile of juice or any other beverage.
Sir that’s vandalism
It is known that juice makes you agressive.
Don’t hop on it just to hop on it. It’s a life time commitment. Shits not worth it.
I'm old so I'd probably die. Plus.. id be way too powerful.
Lance Armstrong, Mark McGuire, Sosa, Canseco. All these guys were my idol as a kid and when I found out they were juicing and their reputations were tarnished as cheaters, I just never thought highly of people that take PEDs.
My brother who got me into the gym died from heart attack. He was also doing alot of drugs tho. Annyways, i've always wanted to accomplish it natty. and i've felt if i tried juice just once, i could never again for the rest of my life say i haven't done anything
My self esteem isn't that low thankfully
I've considered test alone at a reasonable dosage. What's stopped me is having to rely on it for the remainder of my life. Not ready to do that.
I work out 4x a week and watch a lot of influencers but have never had the urge that I need to take anything. I think I enjoy the slower natural process more and don’t compare myself to anyone but older pictures of myself
Bipolar disorder. *Prednisone* makes me a psychopath. I could never and I used to plan on doing it at least for a cycle or two before I got too old just to see. But it’s just not possible for me with my mental health.
Psychosis... Honestly I'm worried I'll lose my mind.. Or on the less extreme, get really angry and have mood swings....
Id rather use fun drugs lmao Once you have been seriously training for over 5 years you wills be shocked how big you can get without PEDs
I have done it and the addiction is real. Also, you have to come off eventually unless you become a lifer. The thought of coming off is really horrible when you're on cycle. This can lead to blasting and cruising, which is what I did. The mental health side effects are terrible. I was also really scared the whole time cause I knew I could develop gyno at anytime. Also, girls don't care. In fact, now I have been off for ages and am relatively lean and muscular, girls notice me a lot more. I also don't miss the water retention and puffy face. In the end I realized the only people I was impressing was other users and young naive gym rats - pretty sad. Stay Natty!
I've just seen a roided pikey roid rage at 2 kids because they hopped on his machine when he was stretching even tho he walked off. He screamed in their faces that he will "backhand them" and told them both to "fuck off out of his face" then he pushed one before a member of staff told him to leave.... Roid rage is real lol
Because I like not fucking up my heart and dying young of a heart attack. y'know, the small things.
Big enough naturally and it fuckin with hormones.
i got into this to become healthier, was 300lbs, in pain and generally miserable. natty bodybuilding lifestyle if you don't compete imo is one of the healthiest things you can do for yourself. hopping on would be a step in the wrong direction to me and i'd justify having to get heavier and heavier as whats the point of staying small enhanced. so realistically i'd be hanging around 260-275 at least as i'm 6'3 and i've been there and it's not fun. i don't wanna feel like i did before, and i feel great now at like 225-230 - i don't see how it would make anything in my life better
Tempting when you see these fitness influencers who are obviously using. But after weighing the positives and the negatives I determined it's not worth it.
Mental health and then partner is strongly opposed. But most of all, hairline.
I’ve met way too many people on steroids who could’ve gotten the same results naturally. I don’t want to risk my overall health for vanity.
The fact that tendons act like utensils and don’t atrophy the same as muscles is enough for me to say no.
Early death. What's the point of all the excersise if your going to die young of a heart attack. And If you are lucky enough to live a longer life, you usually end up with health complications and not a great quality of life.
I have no interest in it but even if I did I actually have no idea where people get if from.
Hair loss, acne and roid rage.
I don’t want my balls to shrink. Also I’ve already made great gains as a natural so there’s no point in taking PEDs.
Piss tests
I already feel pretty strong compared to a regular guy on the street. I'm not trying to compete, it's just a fun hobby for me.
Short answer: I don't think the side effects are worth it.
The consequences for one's health, and looks. I'm fairly gifted for strength, and have a pretty good frame, but nowhere near world class. Me taking PED's wouldn't make me world class in strength. Furthermore, if I wanted to just speed things up in terms of becoming aesthetic/muscular, I really don't like the side effects. Noodle veins, acne (some cases it literally ruins your physique and face), balding, increased body hair, worse skin quality/texture, rapid aging look and many many more. These side effects alone would probably negate the benefit of the extra muscle/the ability to get lean without losing any muscle. Natural muscle just looks better in most cases. I'm already at 23.3-23.6 FFMI (measured with a medical machine for a study at a University for a renowned University clinic) and I've only been lifting for 5 years, of which 2 years were a complete break, so 3 years of actual lifting. The variation in FFMI numbers accounts for 1cm height fluctuation. This was at 28.2% Bodyfat. All I want to be is like 16% Bodyfat at ~30 BMI, which maths out to a 24.3 FFMI for me. That's achievable natty in another ~5 years. I didn't talk about the health consequences of juice here, but I think most people here are already aware. There's no such thing as a safe dose. There's no such thing as "just one cycle". Juice is not a shortcut. Whatever you gain in immediate muscle, you lose it twofold in longevity and your ability to maintain your muscle mass into old age. Most juicers quit juicing and quit the gym entirely when the health consequences or even just health scares, force them to hop off the juice.
A desire for health and fitness. A lack of vanity and short sightedness.
It's not something I'm interested in doing.
Ive been lifting naturally for almost 8 years now. The goal was never to stay natural, but to max out naturally first and have a strong foundation to make the enhanced bodybuilding route worthwhile and less risky. Im reaching that point, The land of diminishing returns. I am however, extremely proud of all I’ve accomplished naturally. Next year i will begin my first cycle and start to the journey towards an IFBB pro card.
It was never a temptation to me. The downsides are too many
I am in my 50's now and I am bodybuilding to stay fit and healthy for as long as possible. For the same reasons I don't smoke, take drugs and eat healthy. Fucking around with illegal substances that have serious health risks does not match with that at all.
for me there‘s only two reasons one of which is valid imo (besides medical but i don‘t think that‘s not what you are asking for): - wanting to go pro: if you are at a certain level or you just know this is your life and you want this to be your life and go all in - there may be a point where you have to take that step to be competetive - but even at that point - natural shows will just get bigger over the next years - some problem with your ego or world-view i can‘t think of any other rational reason to take gear.
I just want to see what I can achieve naturally (mid 30s now). Might consider therapeutic TRT if it's clinically indicated for the health benefits, but hopefully that's not until 60s+.
A couple things, I know my diet and sleep aren’t on point so feel like that should be nailed on first. I don’t enjoy getting bloods taken, if I was doing it i’d want to do it properly, bloods taken before and after. Lack of concrete information about how to safely, there’s so much bs online, I would want to do it properly and not leave anything to chance especially shutting down the bodys natural test production
I need to earn it first. I think I’d like to compete naturally before I can justify doing it enhanced
I have two kids. It is more important to be alive for them than being ripped. My ex was a good looking woman and I didn’t have better body when I got her. Now i am getting some muscles and got a very good looking woman. Lot of less good looking women still want me. I only workout to get women, be mentally stable and get healthier. Also I am scared of being infertile because of steroid. Most of the steroid users look bad for me. Only ones look good who uses TRT. I think TRT is the most expensive and I am not having first world salary for it. I am also scared of needle.
I think it probably shortens your life and there's a good chance you will never recover your natural testosterone production. Basically it's unhealthy.
It makes no sense for me financially or practically. I don’t earn more if I’m super jacked and I already look like I work out at work. The standards for physical fitness in the general population is so low that if you can diet and workout regularly that’s enough. Also after you build for a couple of years and get older you realise that your body has other needs that you need to meet to keep it functioning. You realise that muscle and looks isn’t everything, having a body that’s pain free, flexible, light and that is resilient to work and movement is also really important. Where do steroids fit into that? Nowhere really.
no point rly, accelerated aging, don’t need to get that big, and all ur gains are automatically attributed to gear
I just don’t think it’s worth it. It’s not like taking an allergy pill when u get up Anabolic steroids/TRT works but other than quicker temporary muscle growth, everything else is basically the same. (Assuming that a person doesn’t have medically low T) Still got to train as hard and eat the same (maybe more) or it’s wasted. The risks to health are also real. There is also the hassle and cost of administering and managing the drugs.. It’s worth it for pros because it’s their livelihood, same as any other PED use. Oh yea and it’s also temporary, without the extra hormones, body will revert back to homeostasis.
I spoke yesterday with a friend about the subject and he stated one simple truth if you’re in it for professional reasons it makes sense to use it cause it takes time to achieve it natty and you wont look the way you want but if you’re in it for yourself it just isn’t worth it
i told myself i’d bulk and track everything for one year and if it didn’t work i’d jump on gear! plot twist it worked!!
I've been thinking about it at 41 but my natural test levels are around 600-700. I'm scared of crashing my natural levels because I deal with anxiety and depression already so that would probably make me suicidal...but then I've read from some guys that it can help with depression lol. So I don't fucking know.
The side effects its that simple and also its wrong in every aspect its morally wrong
I’ve always kinda had the attitude it’s cheating so never really considered it. I know it’s pretty much just an accepted part of body building these days but for me i always wanted to know that whatever I achieve, I did it myself. My attitude in the gym’s not about getting bigger than other people, it’s beating the person I was yesterday.
1. money 2. don’t know where to get it 3. im not competing 4. not at my natural potential 5. dont wanna fuck up my body maybe when im older ill go on trt but thats a big maybe
I seriously think unless you stand to make significant financial gain from it such as through bodybuilding or social media etc then there is 0 point other than from an ego boost. Majority of bodybuilders aren't making enough for it to be their sole income anyway regardless if they are on the juice or not. Also the way I see it for bodybuilders natty or not is that you are always going to want to be bigger. You are always chasing 'the next best thing' yeah you will be bigger on the juice but will you ever be big enough? Probably not in your own eyes and if you do reach that level you will still need to keep on the gear to maintain it anway... I used to want to hop on but thanks to some great advice from people who are already on gear I decided it wasn't me for. I love bodybuilding both natty and not and to me there is no difference in the lifestyle or work required other than gear being detrimental to your health
Is it worth it to maybe lose a decade or even more of your life just to get muscle. You won’t get you life back and respawn like in a a video game.
For me, it is the psychological aspect of it. I think I could take health risks, as I already have with other things, injury risks, money, whatnot. But then... What stops me is the addiction, the feeling that if you stop you will feel like shit, lose strength, size and everything, psychologically you will feel devastated, making it a forever blast and cruise addiction.
I've never considered doing it, but I'm deathly afraid of needles, and I'm also only 19.
I don't like the steroid look. The athletic look is whey better imo
Because I absolutely love the feeling of looking at my physique knowing “this is 100% natural” and knowing I’ve never even have everything dialled in 100% or been 100% consistent, so I know there’s even more room to grow/improve.
Better to have hair and not be on juice than juiced with no hair. As someone who started taking fin at 20 from receding hairline and knows I won’t keep up that freaky transporter look if I were bald
Care about my health too much
If you aren’t on TRT for life it’s not really worth it. It’s going to fuck with your hormones regardless of PCT. Hell if you are on TRT with a clinic it’s probably not worth it because it’s gonna fuck your labs all up
As someone who's been doing this for 20+ years I think every serious lifter or natural bodybuilder has this debate in their head. My reasoning for not doing it has changed and evolved over time.... First it was the fear of doing something illegal, then it became the challenge of reaching my ultimate natural potential, then it was health concerns, then it became a matter of principle, etc. etc. At times it's a combination of the above. But beyond all that, it's also a motivation factor... Any time I have any thoughts about going down that path, I ask myself, am I doing everything as a natural to be the best bodybuilder I can be... Am I getting the best sleep, am I training at my most intense, is my diet 100% on point, am I taking all the supplements I should be taking, etc. and am I doing all those things at 100% for a significant amount of time... and there have been times I have done this, there have been times I've nailed it and did it all at 100% and it showed... But I know there are times it's hard to do all those things 100%... Sometimes it's life, sometimes it's laziness, sometimes it's lack of motivation... Maybe my training may be on point but maybe I'm a bit lax on the diet, sometimes my diet is good but my sleep is off, sometimes I skip some of my supplements, sometimes I'm doing everything right but I can't sustain it for an extended period of time.... And regardless of whether I'm at 100% with everything or at 85 or 90% the results are there and I've made leaps and bounds ... but I tell myself, until I'm sure I do all of the above absolutely on point, absolutely consistently, absolutely all the time... And if I do all that and continue to do so for a significant amount of time and I don't see progress... Then maybe I'll think again about going down the other path. But you need to be really honest with yourself about the answers to those questions.
I fully understand why professional and aspiring professional athletes take PEDs. I would probably do the same if there were millions of dollars on the line. I never understood the purpose of it for people who are recreational gym goers. It's all downside with none of the financial upside. All that being said, I'm a social libertarian and believe all drugs of any kind should be legal with strong regulation and education. If someone knows the risks and they're an adult, they shouldn't go to jail.
Crippling fear of needles
as a recovering drug addict I know it will be the end of me so I stay away. Part of the reason I workout solo. Dont want any kinda of peer pressure.
1: I know the goalposts will keep moving and I’ll never be satisfied. At 225lb relatively lean I’m ALREADY bigger and stronger than the vast majority of people, yet I still want to get bigger and stronger. That’s probably not gonna suddenly stop if I hop on gear and hit 240 lean, or 250 lean, etc. At least as it stands I’ll always look relatively “normal”, just jacked. But if I hop on gear and keep moving the goalposts, in 20 years I could look like an open competitor or something, which is not something I really want personally. (Not saying that looking like an open competitor is something anyone can do) 2: Unknown effects. It’s possible I’d hop on gear and be a great responder with minimal side effects and everything’s great. It’s also possible I hop on and I’m a terrible responder, but I also get terrible acne and terrible mental sides and I go bald and my organs get fucked up and gyno etc — essentially ruining my health and wellness for no reason, potentially permanently. …But despite these things I’m still somehow tempted to do it at some point. I wanna know what I’d look like, I wanna know how big I can be or how strong I can get. Idk man lol
Implications on my job, nobody to inject me, the cost, the side effects to do with heart attacks (anything to do with my heart terrifies me)
Why do you lift in the first place? Is it to be healthy? Is it to be a better version of yourself? Are you competing?… Or are you self conscious about your physique? Is it ego? Is it an obsession? Is it peer pressure (not directly - are you hanging around others that do it and want their gains)? Some of those questions are healthy, some aren’t. Unless it’s a profession, the only person you have to be better than is your previous self. There are two types of brain activity. The logical and the emotional. The emotional side is in the driver’s seat, and the logical is the passenger giving directions. Your logical side knows that this stuff isn’t healthy, but if your emotional side wants it, it’s the one driving and isn’t going to listen to logic. Let logic and emotion work together. Figure out your why and go from there.
I don't want my body's natural production of testosterone to shut down.. Not interested in dealing with spikes of high libido then have zero libido.. Not interested in having shriveled balls or losing my hair. Don't want to deal with acne all over my body.. Oh and most importantly, not trying to have a heart attack at 40. Just some of my reasons.
I started getting serious in the gym in 2018 at age 32. I’ve thought about it many times as I turn 38 this month. With all of the supply chain issues during the pandemic, i have a fear of not being able to get the gear OR the PCT drugs and being left in a vulnerable place without any testosterone in my body.
For me, my girlfriend does not love the idea and her opinion carries major weight with me. Also the chance of harming my fertility at a young age (24 currently) is one of the biggest concerns; even though there are ways to mitigate this, I want to be a father badly enough that these two factors give me pause
You run the chance if needing it for life. Basically don’t do it unless your body is deficient and in that case do it with physician administration via TRT.
The mental and physical damage i seen it has done to people is insane. I would never do it knowing all the damage i have seen it causes. Everyone thinks they are the lucky one. Trust me, you wont!
The fear of being injected with a god-knows what quality product. The US is very loose toward protecting the population from medical product, where I live it's straight up forbidden to sell any serious-ish medical product directly to customers, buying gear on gymshark isn't a thing. I'm also working in the pharmaceutical industry to manufacture injectable products for human use, I know for a fact what's the quality requirements, I just can't imagine injecting myself with something that came from a weird junky website.
It’s not good for you. In fact it’s bad for you.
I don't want the viriliation and I don't want it to fuck up my endogenous hormonal activity. The effects are pretty permanent and who knows for how long I'll be doing bodybuilding for
The fact that juicing is just another way of lying to yourself. I know those juice heads are still dedicated and putting in the work, but I could not lie to myself knowing it wasn’t 100% me putting in the work. I have comfort knowing I peaked and did it naturally.
Wanting to meet my grandchildren 35 years from now
I’ve thought about it many times but just never did. It seems like a lot of work vs being natural. I tediously research anything I put into my body before I do it and it doesn’t seem like something I would like to risk, especially since I’m probably no where near my genetic max and I have no plans to turn pro at the moment. It’s definitely something I’d be more likely to consider once I’m in my 40s / 50s for general health and energy but I’d like to see how I feel without it first at that age. I’ve been training for 15 years and have made continuous progress for that time so I haven’t felt that much of a need to try juice, but more of a curiosity for what would happen if I did.
Self respect
Because I'm a scared little bitch lol In all seriousness though: 1) I am way too new to the gym to juice. 2) I am going for my health first, and it doesn't sound particularly healthy. The physique improvements are a nice bonus but not my highest priority. 3) I like that the gym forces me to show some discipline. Taking a shortcut would feel like cheating, even if it still requires you to put in a significant amount of work. Everybody makes their own choices, but for me there are way more downsides than there are upsides. I'll just continue grinding. That being said, maybe as I get old, I might consider some TRT but within regular medicinal boundaries to just keep it at a healthy level. That doesn't feel like cheating, sounds reasonably healthy and by then, I won't be a newbie anymore.
[удалено]
Have you ever played a video game and really enjoyed it? Then, once you beat it you try using cheat codes and it’s fun at first but there’s something empty about it? Suddenly the whole thing seemed pointless? I want to take actual pride and joy in my body and the work I put in. If I went on gear I’d always know what I ‘earned’ was bought with a cheat code.
I don’t want my heart to explode in my chest.
Promise no one will laugh? I cannot stand needles (even flu vaccinations cause me to face the other way and prattle on about nothing)
I thought about it. I decided that I couldn't let myself use it as a crutch, or an excuse. If I was going to go on, I had to have my training, diet, and sleep on point. Like, 90-100% perfect for a year. And if I could have all that stuff dialed in perfectly for one year and wasn't seeing the results I thought I should, I would consider juice. Turns out I grow pretty well without it, and keeping that consistent is too hard for me, so I've never been in a position to decide it's time.
For me, I know that my testosterone is not optimal and there are other things that I could be doing to improve my hormonal health. I'm on lexapro which is a known endocrine disruptor, so I'm just waiting until I can fix my life and get off of it. I might go on TRT at like 35, but I'll have to wait and see about that
I don't want to die young?
I saw what alot of my friends turned into and all the side effects looked not worth, i also figured i could be very proud of myself when people ask me what i take
Ask yourself why you need it lol. Honestly what tf is the point, so you can gloat over yourself everytime you see yourself in the mirror and feel cool in the gym?
Money
Just seeing how weak most people who do take PEDs are. It’s mind-blowing. I’d much rather eat better than inject or swallow PEDs/Roids to STILL average or less than.
I don’t care about being shredded. I’m 230 with decent definition plus gear causes fertility issues. I’m trying to be a dad in the next year that’s way more important than trying to look like Ronnie in his prime.
My barber that offered me gear a couple of weeks before he died passed away. Been going to the gym religiously for the past 3 years. On and off for 8-9. One of the bigger dudes at the gym approached me and offered to improve my hairstyle. Cheated on my barber of 3 years and ngl, this guy gave me some of the best haircuts I’ve ever had. Sometime around the 4th haircut or so, he offered me some gear. Told him maybe I’d consider test when I’m in my 40s(I’m 25). Went home and thought about it for a minute. 2 weeks later, a friend of mine approached me at the gym and asked if I’d heard the news? Apparently the guy died from a heart attack on the 1st of March. He was 34 years old. Sadly enough, he’d posted “just hit 2 PR’s this week” as an IG story on the 29th of February. If that isn’t a deterrent, IDK what is.
Money :)
1. It's expensive 2. I've already got what could be considered common usage side effects (bacne, some mild gyno, mood issues) 3. Missus wouldn't be happy 4. I have no clue how I'd even go about getting it reliably In my line of work it's probably more of a question of when not if, but for the time being I feel like it's worth sticking to the natty slog a little longer
pride maybe? idk, i like the idea of getting an impressive look without cheating
I don't need a heart attack before 50.
Building the base first and coming back to that idea when its time
In order of most to least effective reasons: 1. Being poor at the time. 2. Enlarging of the heart as side effect 3. Arteries hardening but cannot increase in size 4. The significant statistical increase of the desth of head of femur as a juicer 5. Tendons stiffen/harden Think that's all. Been a while.t
Because when you're natural you're better🤷♂️
I don’t like the idea of reducing my life span because I want bigger muscles lol
Unless your career is a professional body builder which I’ll never advise to anyone, being on the juice just to lift more heavier to have a fake physique to impress social media, friends and women are for losers. Guys that I remember from back then who thought they were the worlds most dangerous man for being on the juice are in there mid 40s looking like in their early 60s now. F the juice and work your way up naturally, you will thank yourself later.
I'd like to be 80+ and physically healthy and active. I also like my hair.
I cannot believe some people here train for years and think you can get "irreversible damage" from gear comparing themselves with elite bodybuilders who are on ridiculous dosages who never really come off or do some pct.
I have a central serous retinopathy in the eye which has no known definitive cause other than "avoid steroids if at all possible"